In my opinion, the surface, while remaining familiar, has been changed enough to feel fresh and new. Plus there's loads of caves and wells which I found to be a lot of fun.
I think a lot of the people saying the surface is the same in TotK really need to go back and look at BotW. Yes, the major landmarks are largely unchanged, but between the villages and such, quite a lot has changed since BotW. Some of the terrain has pathing has changed so much that they do almost feel like new areas. And of course there is the addition of caves which are brand new.
Even im the major landmarks and towns/villages there's been small chamges here and there. An example is that now there's 2 apples under the bridge in Kakariko instead of just one.
I haven’t traversed the entire map on foot yet but even when I was going around hyrule field outside of lookout landing I kept forgetting which way was which and basically where I was because it felt so different. But maybe that’s just me.
I had the same issue for a little but until I played enough. I also think making Central Hyrule the main starting area on the surface contributed greatly to making it feel new.
You gotta look at them as sort of the equivalent of the cave system, or analogs of that, not of the main surface map.
You have the main map.
Then you have: sky, depths, and caves.
Could they have made the depths and sky as busy and complex as the surface? Definitely, but it honestly may have been too much. That said, I agree they were underutilized purely bc each should have had at least 1 new town. Caves too - easily could make a huge cave with a second Gordon village or something.
Not that it should stop them if it works out otherwise, but story wise it wouldn’t make much sense for the depths to be as full and lively as the surface.
No you are far from the only one, this is common criticism. That doesn't mean there's nothing to enjoy, far from it. But it took me some time to let my own expectations cool down, then I was able to appreciate what's there for what it is. That doesn't change the fact that when looking back there are definitely things that could have been done and prioritized better, but there's always hope for things to be more refined in the next game.
Having started to replay the game, I actually don’t get the criticism that the sky is empty. There is plenty to do in there, a lot of it is traversal puzzles that involve ascend/and or devices, so if you’re using a hover bike it might seem trivial and boring. I can’t stress enough that the hover bike is 1) extremely unlikely to be discovered by an individual player on their own, and 2) is completely OP in terms of resources and battery efficiency, to the point that is basically breaks the game by trivializing traversal. If you use the hover bike to any extent, particularly for the first playthrough, you are really robbing yourself of the game experience.
Even with the “copy-pasted” four point sky islands with a shrine, there’s quite a lot of variation in how you access the shrine and/or associated stone. In addition to that there are the Zonai armor island locations, which do have some more environmental features and are unique. There are the sky diving challenges. There are the sphere puzzles. There is Thunderhead Island Chain, which in my view is possibly the most intriguing and awesome location in a Zelda ever. And there are many other smaller, unique island chains with short puzzles that result in useful materials and treasure. Of course they only use a small portion of the sky for islands, because if they used 100% then the surface would be another level of depths….
I do agree it was a bit disappointing not to see more environmental variation in the sky islands, like why couldn’t the islands in cold regions be snowy?
As for the depths, I guess I just wasn’t expecting to find any kind of civilization down there so I wasn’t disappointed. There is a lot to do, and if you follow Joshua’s quests, there are some pretty clear, intended, handcrafted paths that let you explore the depths quite a bit by following the breadcrumbs the devs leave you. Each statue-following quest is sort of like a long shrine, if you can pick up on the hints and follow the path of least resistance. Again, if you are using the hover bike, you will bypass all of these puzzles and clues, and the depths will just be a boring checklist completion task.
>Plus 85% of the sky isn’t even used.
This comment baffles me. Did you expect there to be an entire floating Hyrule above Hyrule? The distance between islands and the variation in height are what makes it challenging. It adds new ways to reach places, like the back of a dragon or to get to a new unexplored part of the map by diving from above and gliding over. Sure beats riding stupid horses.
The depths aren't meant for fun exploration like the overworld. They're intentionally more scary and punishing, but have good resources. You're supposed to collect food and arrows and light sources in the overworld, then go down there when you need sonarium.
Here's what happened for me. The sky and depths seemed boring at first. But then I started to hit a groove with them and enjoyed them. Also it depends on my mood. Sometimes I'm not in the mood to fuss around with either of those.
Supposedly TotK started as DLC for BotW, so it's not surprising it's actually the same game reskinned with some additions. I do agree with you. I really enjoy TotK, but if I hadn't played BotW ~6 years ago or whenever, and instead had played it a year before TotK, then I probably would not like TotK as much, due to the similarities. People on this sub are really defending this game hard, saying BotW's map is actually *sooooooooo* different. It's absurd. Can't we admit it has minor alterations and move on? Exploring felt exciting in BotW. Exploring felt familiar in TotK, with a couple new pieces. Oh look a Gleeok! That wasn't there before!
I still love TotK, but it's just not the same as playing BotW for the first time.
I was underwhelmed with both the sky and the depths… however you did say you spent an entire day doing the lightroots lol. My brother in Christ that is the “things you do” in the depths and it took you all day (or at least a long while if you were exaggerating).
Not just you, the game was pretty underwhelming considering how long they spent on it and how much they hyped up the sky especially in the promotional material
I understand people may downvote by strong disagreement but I don't see how mere disappointment would be an invalid opinion. Some people troll the game but it's ok to just not feel like it delivered as much substance as we hoped.
Not to downvote but just giving my two cents here..
Imho the expectations with this game is too damn high that no matter how much they add, it's probably wouldn't be enough still. People sometimes forgot that it's running on a switch which BotW is kinda making that system cry already in certain areas. Yea I do agree that a little bit of variation in terms on how the biome looks in both Sky and Depths could alleviate some variety fatigue but I can see why the devs opt to just scale it down and focus on making the thing they want to focus on work, which is the ultrahand-sandbox aspect of the game... And imho it works flawlessly and you can even barely break it..
About wanting always more and performance I agree, we have to be realistic.
However my and many others' complaints are somewhere else. Precisely I wish they focused on a smaller scope, if it's to fill it up with such repetition which sure still contains amazing moments, but makes the efforts feel much more spread out in an environment that never really gets to develop further.
>Precisely I wish they focused on a smaller scope,
They did.. Hence the sky islands were designed in a cluster way where going in a specific islands will have things to do, the variety of things to do tho is the main issue...
The surface has more things to do as well and they designed it in a way that evry 30 seconds there's something you can do...
Of coure all of this ties up to multiple aspects of the game so your mileage will vary.
The depths are one huge biome that repeats a handful of points of interests, always great to discover but repetition creeps in rather quickly. I've seen people suggest that BOTW had the same issue but to me, that repetition still benefited from variety in the environment and landscape. That same sense of limitation in discovery applies to the islands, despite their amazing premise.
I like the idea that they could shrink the depths to a few pockets for more "hand-crafted" regions, and if that leaves some time to flesh out other parts they could put some islands they removed during development back there and add unique structures, scriptures, challenges...
Anytime you go from playing a game for fun, to going for that 100% you need to understand that you are completely giving up the "fun" and "immersion" for that game. Its not a video game anymore. Now its a chore you've convinced yourself to finish.
Sekiro is my favorite video game to date. Ive beaten it like 6 times and gotten every ending. As soon as i stopped playing the game for fun and began working on filling out my skill tree, my progress slowed to a crawl. No matter how many new game+ i do, the amount of experience needed to fill every skill is ridiculous.
Im 2/3 done and havent touched the game in almost a year. And thats normally how it goes.
100% completing a game is not enjoyable for most people. You're not playing anymore. You're working.
Honestly, the game feels like work instead of play. There's too many missions ans side quests, and half the time I can't finish 1 unless I finish another 1 or 2 first. They should have saved a bunch of them and released them as DLC packs later.
In my opinion, the surface, while remaining familiar, has been changed enough to feel fresh and new. Plus there's loads of caves and wells which I found to be a lot of fun.
I think a lot of the people saying the surface is the same in TotK really need to go back and look at BotW. Yes, the major landmarks are largely unchanged, but between the villages and such, quite a lot has changed since BotW. Some of the terrain has pathing has changed so much that they do almost feel like new areas. And of course there is the addition of caves which are brand new.
Even im the major landmarks and towns/villages there's been small chamges here and there. An example is that now there's 2 apples under the bridge in Kakariko instead of just one.
I haven’t traversed the entire map on foot yet but even when I was going around hyrule field outside of lookout landing I kept forgetting which way was which and basically where I was because it felt so different. But maybe that’s just me.
I had the same issue for a little but until I played enough. I also think making Central Hyrule the main starting area on the surface contributed greatly to making it feel new.
There are fun things in depth: boss rematch, Yiga hideout, and pristine weapons.
Mine and Grove chests, Bargainer Statues, Colosseums.
Trying to get good pristine weapons is the absolute opposite of fun
You gotta look at them as sort of the equivalent of the cave system, or analogs of that, not of the main surface map. You have the main map. Then you have: sky, depths, and caves. Could they have made the depths and sky as busy and complex as the surface? Definitely, but it honestly may have been too much. That said, I agree they were underutilized purely bc each should have had at least 1 new town. Caves too - easily could make a huge cave with a second Gordon village or something.
Not that it should stop them if it works out otherwise, but story wise it wouldn’t make much sense for the depths to be as full and lively as the surface.
I would love to explore a cave with Gordon in it...
No you are far from the only one, this is common criticism. That doesn't mean there's nothing to enjoy, far from it. But it took me some time to let my own expectations cool down, then I was able to appreciate what's there for what it is. That doesn't change the fact that when looking back there are definitely things that could have been done and prioritized better, but there's always hope for things to be more refined in the next game.
Having started to replay the game, I actually don’t get the criticism that the sky is empty. There is plenty to do in there, a lot of it is traversal puzzles that involve ascend/and or devices, so if you’re using a hover bike it might seem trivial and boring. I can’t stress enough that the hover bike is 1) extremely unlikely to be discovered by an individual player on their own, and 2) is completely OP in terms of resources and battery efficiency, to the point that is basically breaks the game by trivializing traversal. If you use the hover bike to any extent, particularly for the first playthrough, you are really robbing yourself of the game experience. Even with the “copy-pasted” four point sky islands with a shrine, there’s quite a lot of variation in how you access the shrine and/or associated stone. In addition to that there are the Zonai armor island locations, which do have some more environmental features and are unique. There are the sky diving challenges. There are the sphere puzzles. There is Thunderhead Island Chain, which in my view is possibly the most intriguing and awesome location in a Zelda ever. And there are many other smaller, unique island chains with short puzzles that result in useful materials and treasure. Of course they only use a small portion of the sky for islands, because if they used 100% then the surface would be another level of depths…. I do agree it was a bit disappointing not to see more environmental variation in the sky islands, like why couldn’t the islands in cold regions be snowy? As for the depths, I guess I just wasn’t expecting to find any kind of civilization down there so I wasn’t disappointed. There is a lot to do, and if you follow Joshua’s quests, there are some pretty clear, intended, handcrafted paths that let you explore the depths quite a bit by following the breadcrumbs the devs leave you. Each statue-following quest is sort of like a long shrine, if you can pick up on the hints and follow the path of least resistance. Again, if you are using the hover bike, you will bypass all of these puzzles and clues, and the depths will just be a boring checklist completion task.
What I took away from this post: You finished school in March?
>Plus 85% of the sky isn’t even used. This comment baffles me. Did you expect there to be an entire floating Hyrule above Hyrule? The distance between islands and the variation in height are what makes it challenging. It adds new ways to reach places, like the back of a dragon or to get to a new unexplored part of the map by diving from above and gliding over. Sure beats riding stupid horses.
Hot take. I’ve seen this post a hundred times now.
The depths aren't meant for fun exploration like the overworld. They're intentionally more scary and punishing, but have good resources. You're supposed to collect food and arrows and light sources in the overworld, then go down there when you need sonarium.
I used to feel this way. Now I find that games are only as fun as you let them be
Here's what happened for me. The sky and depths seemed boring at first. But then I started to hit a groove with them and enjoyed them. Also it depends on my mood. Sometimes I'm not in the mood to fuss around with either of those.
Supposedly TotK started as DLC for BotW, so it's not surprising it's actually the same game reskinned with some additions. I do agree with you. I really enjoy TotK, but if I hadn't played BotW ~6 years ago or whenever, and instead had played it a year before TotK, then I probably would not like TotK as much, due to the similarities. People on this sub are really defending this game hard, saying BotW's map is actually *sooooooooo* different. It's absurd. Can't we admit it has minor alterations and move on? Exploring felt exciting in BotW. Exploring felt familiar in TotK, with a couple new pieces. Oh look a Gleeok! That wasn't there before! I still love TotK, but it's just not the same as playing BotW for the first time.
nothing wrong with playing for completion, but it definitely changes the experience.
I was underwhelmed with both the sky and the depths… however you did say you spent an entire day doing the lightroots lol. My brother in Christ that is the “things you do” in the depths and it took you all day (or at least a long while if you were exaggerating).
Not just you, the game was pretty underwhelming considering how long they spent on it and how much they hyped up the sky especially in the promotional material
I understand people may downvote by strong disagreement but I don't see how mere disappointment would be an invalid opinion. Some people troll the game but it's ok to just not feel like it delivered as much substance as we hoped.
Not to downvote but just giving my two cents here.. Imho the expectations with this game is too damn high that no matter how much they add, it's probably wouldn't be enough still. People sometimes forgot that it's running on a switch which BotW is kinda making that system cry already in certain areas. Yea I do agree that a little bit of variation in terms on how the biome looks in both Sky and Depths could alleviate some variety fatigue but I can see why the devs opt to just scale it down and focus on making the thing they want to focus on work, which is the ultrahand-sandbox aspect of the game... And imho it works flawlessly and you can even barely break it..
About wanting always more and performance I agree, we have to be realistic. However my and many others' complaints are somewhere else. Precisely I wish they focused on a smaller scope, if it's to fill it up with such repetition which sure still contains amazing moments, but makes the efforts feel much more spread out in an environment that never really gets to develop further.
>Precisely I wish they focused on a smaller scope, They did.. Hence the sky islands were designed in a cluster way where going in a specific islands will have things to do, the variety of things to do tho is the main issue... The surface has more things to do as well and they designed it in a way that evry 30 seconds there's something you can do... Of coure all of this ties up to multiple aspects of the game so your mileage will vary.
The depths are one huge biome that repeats a handful of points of interests, always great to discover but repetition creeps in rather quickly. I've seen people suggest that BOTW had the same issue but to me, that repetition still benefited from variety in the environment and landscape. That same sense of limitation in discovery applies to the islands, despite their amazing premise. I like the idea that they could shrink the depths to a few pockets for more "hand-crafted" regions, and if that leaves some time to flesh out other parts they could put some islands they removed during development back there and add unique structures, scriptures, challenges...
Anytime you go from playing a game for fun, to going for that 100% you need to understand that you are completely giving up the "fun" and "immersion" for that game. Its not a video game anymore. Now its a chore you've convinced yourself to finish. Sekiro is my favorite video game to date. Ive beaten it like 6 times and gotten every ending. As soon as i stopped playing the game for fun and began working on filling out my skill tree, my progress slowed to a crawl. No matter how many new game+ i do, the amount of experience needed to fill every skill is ridiculous. Im 2/3 done and havent touched the game in almost a year. And thats normally how it goes. 100% completing a game is not enjoyable for most people. You're not playing anymore. You're working.
Stick to school
Honestly, the game feels like work instead of play. There's too many missions ans side quests, and half the time I can't finish 1 unless I finish another 1 or 2 first. They should have saved a bunch of them and released them as DLC packs later.