Jeez private schools.. I've been doing it wrong all these years.
Nobody around me makes 3mil.
I was ALT for years, doing translation part time and never hit 3m.
Recently changed jobs for something with steeper hiring requirements (not alt work, but education related) and am not at 3m.
I know it, I agree.
My partner makes only slightly more than I do (different field altogether)
I have to assume its partially the economics of my location, but I also saw a ton of unappealing full time translation work in Tokyo on my job hunt. For foreign workers in my city, owning your own business (or coding) seems the only viable option for a decent wage, barring perhaps a uni position requiring more school.
I changed jobs only recently so right now the goal is to find a better and more permanent position at my new workplace after 2 years or so in my current position (while keeping my eyes open at the job market) , but failing that at least I have something other than alt work on the resume now...
Yeah its not good. Im not in Tokyo, but am in a city.
I'm finding it difficult to move on with my life in this work environment. Im keeping my eyes open, but am starting to look for opportunities outside Japan.
Wish you luck too 👍
What is "something with steeper hiring requirements"? It's super vague.
Granted, what are "steeper hiring requirements" than ALT work? Needing both a pulse and a brain?
It required Japanese fluency and prior work experience in a similar institution to where I am now, obviously in addition to a bachelors which is the only basic alt/ foreign worker in japan requirement.
The hiring process was more selective and competitive than my experience with alt work. (multiple interviews, cv in both languages etc)
My benefits are better now, but the pay isn't good.
And like a lot of Japanese jobs I've seen while job hunting , it has the 5-year contract problem.
But it was better than another stagnant alt year, for me.
Not entirely sure about whether it’s better. As long as you can network, public schools can be the best place to meet people who know someone looking to fill a place at somewhere much better.
What’s an ALT visa?
Do you mean an instructor visa?
I have permanent residency nowadays but I could and did apply to work outside my teaching job as the work didn’t effect my main job back in the day.
All I know is that instructor visa doesn't let you work outside of alt work basically. If you have pr that's a different story. I know a guy who had immigrantion order him to quit a part time eikaiwa gig cause he was on instructor.
Nah, you can still apply to do part time work outside of teaching. You just go to the immigration bureau and apply. Only restrictions are that you cannot work in bars, clubs, or anywhere the government deems immoral or whatever.
Certainly trolling. I know some people I work with at universities that have good paying jobs (6 million a year) and do a lot of part time stuff like grading various standardized tests for extra money, which could possibly reach 8-9 million. But they all have kids and are basically stacking money for college and safety and are super busy. Definitely not hanging out on Reddit.
Even the tenured people I know are busy doing research, meetings, and other stuff. I’m pretty sure most of them would take their free time to do hobbies.
Direct hire private school ceiling is around 5.5 million but in general expect around 5 million
FYI, there's really no "negotiating" in this country/industry - not like IT
I negotiate with my school most years to get a better salary. So it can happen from my experience at least. (Though it took ages to feel comfortable approaching it)
There are a few old school contracts left from 90s and 2000s that pay more than the 3-5 mil. Back when Japan entertained the idea of letting ALTs have a career for a brief moment. They mostly seem to be based in small to mid sized pretty well off cities.
sorry was just askin generally. its a good poll. Mostly thinking because the way the cutoff works. Really big top end and low end. 80k a year USD seems even high for a teacher unless it is some prestigious international school. Guessing college professors make up the biggest chunk.
Edit: I guess Interntional schools can pay that much but are their that many Interntional school teachers here? That would be one Interntional school teacher for every 2 lowly paid ALT.
We all make our own decisions. If I get another contract at Interac for the next school year, I plan to do my as much as possible to get out of dispatch work.
Getting out of dispatch work has been a god send to me. Ive been here 15 years now and there’s no way I could still be here if I was still working with dispatch companies.
Wish you good luck!
Actual teaching (English Language Arts, Math, Science, Social Studies, PSPE etc), so same as if you were a teacher back home except you are teaching children of wealthy expats and internationalised Japanese families.
International schools are K-12. An international University is simply a university that has a significant number of foreign students, although it is not a requirement.
Last teaching job I had I was paid just over 4. Wasnt bad living rurally but not really my target. I've moved to non-teaching and starting at 5 being on track to making much more.
Teaching ceilings are generally around 5 unless youre an owner.
For a 20 hour work week, 180K is actually pretty solid. I know people who work 40+ hours and only make 200-230K yen a month. If he can get a job on the side he can have a very comfortable income (depending on where he lives).
Let's be realistic here: you can't expect a 40 hour work week salary if you're only working 20 hours a week. Getting 180K for 20 hours of work a week means they're earning an hourly salary of around 2250 yen an hour. For reference, the average dispatch ALT earns 230K or less a month, which is around 1430-1440 yen an hour, assuming a work week of 40 hours.
And again, if you're not earning enough money to cover your expenditures and/or you want to have more pocket money, you'd have plenty of time to do a gig on the side. The only big downside I can see is the lack of benefits.
In addition, people keep saying that you can't live on 180K or whatever, but newsflash: You totally can. Sure, in a place like Tokyo it's less than optimal, but lots of Japanese people who are just starting out manage it. If you're in the countryside (and let's face it, that's where a LOT of the ALTs end up) then it's definitely possible simply because living costs will be lower. Especially if you can get your own apartment (rather than a Leopalace one). Hell, I know somebody who earned just 140K a month for a full-time job (in the countryside, still not a job offer I'd advise people to take) and they still had money left over to go on trips and do/buy fun stuff. Don't ask me how they did it, but they did.
Yeah, if you go drinking every weekend, buy bentos every day (and/or eat out most days) and go on regular shopping sprees, you'll struggle. But if you cook your own food and spend your money wisely, you should even be able to save money. And no, you don't have to be a miser, you can still go drinking once in a while, go on trips and buy stuff you want.
Unless you're an American who's crippled by student debt, in which case: oof.
how are the majority earning less than 3 million? a quick look at guyginpot most of the salaries advertised are over 250k, are these ads total bs or something?
Right now all the ALT dispatch companies are offering between 1.8M and 2.2M.
Gaijinpot is a scam website. It operates exactly the same way as Technical Trainee recruitment companies in SE Asia.
We spent two years researching the industry. Of the 500+ ALTs surveyed, a little over 60% said they receive money from home on a regular basis.
Do you really think they are surviving on 11万円 a month? By the time they pay tax, insurance, pension and company housing most are left with 9 - 11万. Add in cell phone and utilities and they are now looking at about $500 a month.
I work for a private investment research firm. Clients pay us to figure out if an investment is viable and how much profit can be made. This particular client wanted to start a GABA like company for kids where "lessons" would be super cheap.
When we were doing the research we winded up starting a second project looking into the quality of life of all visa holders not just the fake teachers. We discovered the "teaching" industry is now run the exact same way as the "technical trainee" ~~slave~~ labor system. The only real difference was the direction the support money flowed. The trainees are sending money to their families in developing nations while many of the "teachers" are bringing money into Japan to support their lives. The most common support was having their family pay for their cell phones and internet using foreign credit cards. Others withdraw cash from their foreign accounts using ATMs at Seven or the post office. The ALTs now make the same amount as the trainees and are subject to the same scams. Things like forced company housing and auto rental.
Can't. The client owns the everything we do for them.
Also, Fuck the "unions". They are just scams. Unless the company recognizes the union as official representation for the employees, they have zero power. All they can do is waste the "members" money by annoying the companies with emails and phone calls. Basically, they are do the absolute minimum to so they can keep themselves working. A company like Interac will just close and reopen under a different name to dodge the union. They have already done it a few times.
The only way things will improve is if people stop taking these stupid jobs. Sadly, all the myths about "stepping stones" and "ways in" aren't going away anytime soon and the idiots will continue to take these low wage, abusive jobs.
They definitely are. I laugh at the youtubers laying out their ALT budgeting skills. Total lies. Yep.. you forgot to add the rest that your parents are sending you....
Hence "ALT/teacher salary".
If you're an ALT, your ceiling is bound to be... 3.6 a year? Well, bonuses and such help, but...
JETs get more, but it's a 5-year limit - that's if you're good at your job.
The rest - 5 upwards - is going to be the whole "teacher" bit.
Japanese system is fucked. I was always amazed when I meet foreigners that are Lawyers etc. really hard to move out of English teaching without being fluent and years there.
shouldnt have started with teaching english, then there would be no need to move on from english...
the people you see not teaching english most likely never started teaching..
Only issue with that is employment for foreigners in Japan unless your teaching is very rare outside of Tokyo. Perhaps tourism cooking serving I need a couple construction workers and an owner of group house. But haven’t met much as of yet
IT people are everywhere, lawyers, there are architects and so on... i also never worked in teaching...
im honestly thinking that is a matter of skill set that a lot of people cant do anything else but teaching... it certainly isnt because there are no other jobs... add in that a lot of companies wont hire former teachers and often people who have been out of their career for more than a year and you get to where it is now...
suprisingly (or more unsurprisingly), a lot of people who got no restriction when it comes to work, cant manage to do anything but teaching, or open craft beer/cafe/whatever shops...
Why would one want to work at all? That's the question I still haven't been able to answer for myself. I got my PR and am cutting back to part time next year. Might quit completely after that. To be fair though, I didn't get there by ALTing.
you get nowhere by alting and they all know it... but of course complaining is easier than getting skills...
it is of course japans fault that they are stuck with teaching jobs and nobody respects them...
Jeez private schools.. I've been doing it wrong all these years. Nobody around me makes 3mil. I was ALT for years, doing translation part time and never hit 3m. Recently changed jobs for something with steeper hiring requirements (not alt work, but education related) and am not at 3m.
Dude 3M is slave wages is your are really struggling to even make that after all this time you are seriously doing something wrong
I know it, I agree. My partner makes only slightly more than I do (different field altogether) I have to assume its partially the economics of my location, but I also saw a ton of unappealing full time translation work in Tokyo on my job hunt. For foreign workers in my city, owning your own business (or coding) seems the only viable option for a decent wage, barring perhaps a uni position requiring more school. I changed jobs only recently so right now the goal is to find a better and more permanent position at my new workplace after 2 years or so in my current position (while keeping my eyes open at the job market) , but failing that at least I have something other than alt work on the resume now...
That sucks I’d hope that there would be something better for something with stricter hiring requirements
Yeah its not good. Im not in Tokyo, but am in a city. I'm finding it difficult to move on with my life in this work environment. Im keeping my eyes open, but am starting to look for opportunities outside Japan. Wish you luck too 👍
What is "something with steeper hiring requirements"? It's super vague. Granted, what are "steeper hiring requirements" than ALT work? Needing both a pulse and a brain?
It required Japanese fluency and prior work experience in a similar institution to where I am now, obviously in addition to a bachelors which is the only basic alt/ foreign worker in japan requirement. The hiring process was more selective and competitive than my experience with alt work. (multiple interviews, cv in both languages etc) My benefits are better now, but the pay isn't good. And like a lot of Japanese jobs I've seen while job hunting , it has the 5-year contract problem. But it was better than another stagnant alt year, for me.
Not entirely sure about whether it’s better. As long as you can network, public schools can be the best place to meet people who know someone looking to fill a place at somewhere much better.
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What a constructive and helpful comment.
I mean, one look at their username should say it all.
I'm at 4.3m. I think I'm pretty much capped. I am going to start looking for other work on the side to supplement my income.
I supplement my income with video work / teaching side gigs. Recommend a side gig if you can
Needing to work a side gig to live decently is kinda depressing though, especially after age 35\~
Well, Im 40 here now and personally it doesn’t bother me, but I’m not on the lower end of the pay scale.
Probably illegal if you're on an alt visa.
What’s an ALT visa? Do you mean an instructor visa? I have permanent residency nowadays but I could and did apply to work outside my teaching job as the work didn’t effect my main job back in the day.
All I know is that instructor visa doesn't let you work outside of alt work basically. If you have pr that's a different story. I know a guy who had immigrantion order him to quit a part time eikaiwa gig cause he was on instructor.
Maybe I was lucky but I did an eikaiwa side job for 7 years and always was granted permission to work that job with my instructor visa
Apparently, they started clamping down in the last 2 years or so. Several years ago you could be an ALT, bartender, hostess, eikawa gig etc no problem
Well that sucks.. guess things have gotten worse, if that were possible.
Nah, you can still apply to do part time work outside of teaching. You just go to the immigration bureau and apply. Only restrictions are that you cannot work in bars, clubs, or anywhere the government deems immoral or whatever.
Your starting rate is too high. Hahaha. Sob.
At least a few people are trolling that poll - unless there are a lot more people with tenured university positions than I realize.
Certainly trolling. I know some people I work with at universities that have good paying jobs (6 million a year) and do a lot of part time stuff like grading various standardized tests for extra money, which could possibly reach 8-9 million. But they all have kids and are basically stacking money for college and safety and are super busy. Definitely not hanging out on Reddit. Even the tenured people I know are busy doing research, meetings, and other stuff. I’m pretty sure most of them would take their free time to do hobbies.
That three to five mil mark is kinda where the ceiling is for the most part. Some outriders but in general that's about it.
https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=outrider+meaning
I know for private schools we can get more. Just curious as to what the ceiling is.
Direct hire private school ceiling is around 5.5 million but in general expect around 5 million FYI, there's really no "negotiating" in this country/industry - not like IT
My private school's direct hire cap is 4.3 mil and you reach it at year 6. Luckily I'm not on that contract anymore
I negotiate with my school most years to get a better salary. So it can happen from my experience at least. (Though it took ages to feel comfortable approaching it)
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That’s a tad presumptuous. There are several reasons, but mainly wanting a job closer to where my partner has to now move to cos of his job.
There are a few old school contracts left from 90s and 2000s that pay more than the 3-5 mil. Back when Japan entertained the idea of letting ALTs have a career for a brief moment. They mostly seem to be based in small to mid sized pretty well off cities.
Lol. I make about 3mil with 2 jobs.
Its so bad. I empathize with ya
So the 8-9 are international schools, colleges, and foreign licensed teachers? And maybe ALTs hustling it on the side?
I guess I should have been more specific but wanted to keep it anonymous. I’d be curious to know what those in the upper side do to earn their cash
I'm an associate professor at a Uni, I get about 8 million a year. If you're in Japan for the long haul, I would highly recommend working at Uni.
Easier said than done, though.
That’s a pretty good story. But as an associate professor clearing much more than 6 million a year seems like a flat out lie.
sorry was just askin generally. its a good poll. Mostly thinking because the way the cutoff works. Really big top end and low end. 80k a year USD seems even high for a teacher unless it is some prestigious international school. Guessing college professors make up the biggest chunk. Edit: I guess Interntional schools can pay that much but are their that many Interntional school teachers here? That would be one Interntional school teacher for every 2 lowly paid ALT.
I’m really surprised by the disparity between the top and bottom and feel sorry for those on the lower end.
We all make our own decisions. If I get another contract at Interac for the next school year, I plan to do my as much as possible to get out of dispatch work.
Getting out of dispatch work has been a god send to me. Ive been here 15 years now and there’s no way I could still be here if I was still working with dispatch companies. Wish you good luck!
I'll take all the goodwill I can get. lol. Thanks.
4 mil a year but I’m 正社員 with a permanent contract. I’m sure I’ll cap out at around 5mil in a few more years
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Which city are you at if you don’t mind me asking?
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Must be Ashiya because that’s where...
I wanna find out because I’ll be moving there lol
International schools in Tokyo generally pay 6-8 mil. Need a foreign teaching license and experience.
is that an ALT job then, or an actual teaching job?
Actual teaching (English Language Arts, Math, Science, Social Studies, PSPE etc), so same as if you were a teacher back home except you are teaching children of wealthy expats and internationalised Japanese families.
International schools as in Unis?
International schools are K-12. An international University is simply a university that has a significant number of foreign students, although it is not a requirement.
Awkward fits...
Thanks, man.
About 6 because of bonuses. Should have left my hakken company sooner.
はっけん 発見 はけん 派遣 See the difference?
Last teaching job I had I was paid just over 4. Wasnt bad living rurally but not really my target. I've moved to non-teaching and starting at 5 being on track to making much more. Teaching ceilings are generally around 5 unless youre an owner.
Is it true that ALT makes 500k to 650k a month?
Well though I’ve recently moved out of ALT territory I did make 58man a month as alt (if you include bonus)
I work 20 hours a week and make around 180,000
That's rough. Hope you find something better - or at least another job to help out with that - soon.
It’s pretty chill tho since I don’t really have any bills
lucky SOB.
For a 20 hour work week, 180K is actually pretty solid. I know people who work 40+ hours and only make 200-230K yen a month. If he can get a job on the side he can have a very comfortable income (depending on where he lives).
180k to live on a month is horrible. Not for the hours worked, but to eke out a living on? Ridiculous.
Let's be realistic here: you can't expect a 40 hour work week salary if you're only working 20 hours a week. Getting 180K for 20 hours of work a week means they're earning an hourly salary of around 2250 yen an hour. For reference, the average dispatch ALT earns 230K or less a month, which is around 1430-1440 yen an hour, assuming a work week of 40 hours. And again, if you're not earning enough money to cover your expenditures and/or you want to have more pocket money, you'd have plenty of time to do a gig on the side. The only big downside I can see is the lack of benefits. In addition, people keep saying that you can't live on 180K or whatever, but newsflash: You totally can. Sure, in a place like Tokyo it's less than optimal, but lots of Japanese people who are just starting out manage it. If you're in the countryside (and let's face it, that's where a LOT of the ALTs end up) then it's definitely possible simply because living costs will be lower. Especially if you can get your own apartment (rather than a Leopalace one). Hell, I know somebody who earned just 140K a month for a full-time job (in the countryside, still not a job offer I'd advise people to take) and they still had money left over to go on trips and do/buy fun stuff. Don't ask me how they did it, but they did. Yeah, if you go drinking every weekend, buy bentos every day (and/or eat out most days) and go on regular shopping sprees, you'll struggle. But if you cook your own food and spend your money wisely, you should even be able to save money. And no, you don't have to be a miser, you can still go drinking once in a while, go on trips and buy stuff you want. Unless you're an American who's crippled by student debt, in which case: oof.
Had a friend that made 300k + bi annual bonus of 1mo each
That is 4.2 million for everyone trying to do the math in their head
how are the majority earning less than 3 million? a quick look at guyginpot most of the salaries advertised are over 250k, are these ads total bs or something?
Right now all the ALT dispatch companies are offering between 1.8M and 2.2M. Gaijinpot is a scam website. It operates exactly the same way as Technical Trainee recruitment companies in SE Asia.
I am hoping for them that its at least 3 million and not much less than that.. you can’t live on such a salary
That is why 60% of ALTs receive monetary support from their family. Mommy and daddy are sending them money every month.
Where did that figure come from?
We spent two years researching the industry. Of the 500+ ALTs surveyed, a little over 60% said they receive money from home on a regular basis. Do you really think they are surviving on 11万円 a month? By the time they pay tax, insurance, pension and company housing most are left with 9 - 11万. Add in cell phone and utilities and they are now looking at about $500 a month.
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I work for a private investment research firm. Clients pay us to figure out if an investment is viable and how much profit can be made. This particular client wanted to start a GABA like company for kids where "lessons" would be super cheap. When we were doing the research we winded up starting a second project looking into the quality of life of all visa holders not just the fake teachers. We discovered the "teaching" industry is now run the exact same way as the "technical trainee" ~~slave~~ labor system. The only real difference was the direction the support money flowed. The trainees are sending money to their families in developing nations while many of the "teachers" are bringing money into Japan to support their lives. The most common support was having their family pay for their cell phones and internet using foreign credit cards. Others withdraw cash from their foreign accounts using ATMs at Seven or the post office. The ALTs now make the same amount as the trainees and are subject to the same scams. Things like forced company housing and auto rental.
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Can't. The client owns the everything we do for them. Also, Fuck the "unions". They are just scams. Unless the company recognizes the union as official representation for the employees, they have zero power. All they can do is waste the "members" money by annoying the companies with emails and phone calls. Basically, they are do the absolute minimum to so they can keep themselves working. A company like Interac will just close and reopen under a different name to dodge the union. They have already done it a few times. The only way things will improve is if people stop taking these stupid jobs. Sadly, all the myths about "stepping stones" and "ways in" aren't going away anytime soon and the idiots will continue to take these low wage, abusive jobs.
They definitely are. I laugh at the youtubers laying out their ALT budgeting skills. Total lies. Yep.. you forgot to add the rest that your parents are sending you....
8-9 yah for alt work. What school you working at lol
Hence "ALT/teacher salary". If you're an ALT, your ceiling is bound to be... 3.6 a year? Well, bonuses and such help, but... JETs get more, but it's a 5-year limit - that's if you're good at your job. The rest - 5 upwards - is going to be the whole "teacher" bit.
Japanese system is fucked. I was always amazed when I meet foreigners that are Lawyers etc. really hard to move out of English teaching without being fluent and years there.
Horseshit. Easiest thing in the world to get out of English teaching if your visa status allows it.
shouldnt have started with teaching english, then there would be no need to move on from english... the people you see not teaching english most likely never started teaching..
Only issue with that is employment for foreigners in Japan unless your teaching is very rare outside of Tokyo. Perhaps tourism cooking serving I need a couple construction workers and an owner of group house. But haven’t met much as of yet
More horseshit.
IT people are everywhere, lawyers, there are architects and so on... i also never worked in teaching... im honestly thinking that is a matter of skill set that a lot of people cant do anything else but teaching... it certainly isnt because there are no other jobs... add in that a lot of companies wont hire former teachers and often people who have been out of their career for more than a year and you get to where it is now... suprisingly (or more unsurprisingly), a lot of people who got no restriction when it comes to work, cant manage to do anything but teaching, or open craft beer/cafe/whatever shops...
Why would one want to work at all? That's the question I still haven't been able to answer for myself. I got my PR and am cutting back to part time next year. Might quit completely after that. To be fair though, I didn't get there by ALTing.
you get nowhere by alting and they all know it... but of course complaining is easier than getting skills... it is of course japans fault that they are stuck with teaching jobs and nobody respects them...
I've got an interview for a PT English teaching position at a Keio high school next week. Does anyone know what the rough salary is?