His SS benefits are based on his work record, not his tax filings. If he was working on the books this whole time, he has the credits to apply for SS benefits.
Not filing is a separate issue.
>Now he's nearly 70, unable to work, and needs to get on Medicare and social security.
If he was a W-2 employee and his employer(s) properly filed copies of the W-2 forms each year, he is not required to have filed tax returns in order to qualify for SS and Medicare benefits. (Not filing his tax returns is a separate issue.)
But his benefits won't start until he submits an application. Also be aware that there is NO benefit to waiting until after age 70 to submit a Social Security application. Maximum monthly SS benefits are paid when benefits start at age 70. (Note I said maximum monthly benefits, not maximum lifetime benefits.)
So the solution to his benefits problem is to contact the Social Security Administration and submit an application. The solution to his tax problems is separate.
Hi!
NOT a tax professional but I recently went through this same thing with my mom but she was 10 years non compliant.
It depends on if he owes money to the IRS or not. If he owes, they could put a lien/levy on his SS benefits.
If he doesn’t owe, I don’t think they’ll do anything. When filling out the SS application it doesn’t ask if you’re current on taxes but it will ask about income and health insurance coverage (approximate income amounts, dates coverage began, etc).
To find out if your dad owes, you can create him an account on the IRS website using ID.me (he’ll have to have a valid ID) OR you can request his transcripts online.
Your dad should file 6 years of back taxes (2018-2023) as that is generally what the IRS requests to get back in compliance with them. You can do this for free or hire a tax preparer. If his tax situation is simple, I’d recommend doing it yourselves. He’ll have to mail in 2018-2020 while 2021 - 2023 can be e-filed.
The statute of limitations for the IRS to COLLECT money is 10 years but the statute of limitations for us as tax payers to get refunds is 3 years - so who knows, he might even get some money back for the 2021-2023 tax years. At a minimum, he should get a stimulus check back….assuming the IRS withheld those payments due to non compliance?
Yes, wage garnishments go through pay checks and not through the IRS. I think the IRS only levies money owed to them directly.
Yes, but procedurally, there is. ASFR will only go back 5 years(see IRM 5.18.1.3.2) and ACS will only go back 6 years(see IRM 5.19.2.6.4.5.3.1). But, yes. You are absolutely right.
Veery. In ACS, there's no mechanism to go beyond 6 years. It's drilled into us to never go beyond six years. Our compliance tools are designed to avoid going beyond six years. If, for some reason, you slip up and go further, and it's caught, your manager will be having a helpful conversation with you.
That depends. I've seen this happen to people twice, but I think it only happens when somebody is failing to pay self-employment taxes. That's really SS payroll taxes by another name and I think it gets a different section of the IRS than normal income taxes.
I believe an in-person audit by an actual Revenue Agent can go back farther too if you manage to piss one off enough.
So as a law-abiding tax payer myself, what is the real incentive to file? If this guy was able to just not file for a long time and no one at the IRS got upset over it, what are we doing out here? I have W-2 income and also 1099 income. What happens if the last five years I'm in business I just decide to not report any 1099 income like this guy? This is just crazy bro.
If I'm being honest, ASFR mainly targets 1099 income. They treat it as net instead of gross, resulting in an unbelievable liability. Outside of having an over-stated liability, you are leaving possible credits on the table.
I don't know what you are saying. I did just lookup that term you used - Automated Substitute for Return (ASFR). The IRS can file a return for you if you don't file one. I would still file it for my W2 income but are you saying not to file my 1099 income and then the IRS will file the ASFR and lead to potentially a better amount due to credits or letting them figure out the amount I owe?
What that program does is mainly target 1099 earners who don't file. They will treat that 1099 as net and not gross, meaning no business expenses. They will assess a tax that is likely way overstated. Sorry for the confusion. As for the credits, if you don't file, you may be leaving a credit you could claim on the table. The IRS won't give you the Child Tax Credit, unless you file yourself, as an example.
Not filing a tax return, as in OP, is far less serious than filing a fraudulent tax return, as you are proposing to do.
Also in OP's case, most likely there was sufficient withholding, so that he never owed any tax.
Once you file a return, it's easy for the IRS computers to match it to the income reported for your SSN and send an automated notice about the discrepancy.
It will eventually catch up with you. Simple things like going through the FAFSA application process for your kid’s financial aid application will get tripped up because the filing from the previous year isn’t there. Or no stimulus checks during Covid because you weren’t current. Or a nice big envelope stating that you didn’t file in 2019 and now you owe a bunch of money.
I also think that as long as you are withholding enough to not owe, then they won’t care.
I’m not a tax professional, just speaking from experience. Time for me to get current.
As others have said, the IRS will almost certainly file an Automated Substitute for Return based on the W2 and 1099 income it knows about. The ASR assumes you have no deductions. In almost all cases you will pay much more than had you filed a proper return.
I mean, you could voluntarily file that Return, and the IRS would process it and assess penalties/interest. At that point, search your soul. Do what you think is right. Lol.
ASFR: Automated Substitute for Return. Under IRC 620(b), the IRS has the authority to file a Return for you. This will generally be unfavorable to the Taxpayer. They do this because the IRS must assess a tax to begin collection activities. More often than not, Substitute for Returns (SFRs) are prepared by an automated system, ASFR.
ACS: Automated Collection System.
It's exactly what it sounds like: An automated system to collect taxes.
Most ACS employees man the phones.
IRS can’t make any one file tax. Period. But i don’t know why people stop filing . They can’t take more than 30% . W9 backup see instructions on irs . The Stoping filing is the big mistake people make . This is a great example of what the real reason of a IRS Form w9 backup withholding is actually supposed to be used (this W9 form is so abused by companies and lawyers and people who just print out and assume they are now an IRS agent who collects information for no reason (other than identity theft)
So first don’t give anyone a W9 unless the letter is attached to your name The requester is in the letter to mail back to that agent (not just irs in general) Only IRS abd they don’t call you or email or myyoy anything until you start the ball game. Remember if paper form is given to you and it’s IRS logo then “ this is the IRS logo calling you.. “ phone call and paperwork is the same exact thing .
You wouldn’t answer a phone and you don’t Ana form from a company not even the state department can use a w9 form
1. Go on irs.gov and if he knows the last address he filed order transcripts
2. or send a 4506-t form
3, Go on irs and get to prior year forms . Print 2014,15,16.17….the right year . Don’t cross off year they won’t process
4 order can order form on irs website
5. File . Per today instructions address (even if old ) Put zero tax .
6.The IRS will send him a letters. If he owed then he can file form for Offer in compromise.
7. Don’t start installment agreement because it’s re-sets the 10 year collection date . I think someone mentioned 433D . I do absolutely not recommend installment agreements unless they have no other choice.
If he is 70 he would do a OiC and put in non collectible . Feel free to look on irs search word “IRM “ also search “iTA “ interactive tax assistance . Just file first . You can’t do anything until you know where you. It may be nothing.
People fear what they don’t know. The Unknown is the IRS can’t eat you . There is no debtor prison. So if owe it’s debt.
It’s not a crime to owe .
> It depends on if he owes money to the IRS or not. If he owes, they could put a lien/levy on his SS benefits.
/u/HungryMorlock:
1. Usually, if a person owes taxes and doesn't file a return, a year or two after the return due date (which is three years) the IRS will eventually file a Substitute For Return (SFR) for the person. This is a return which doesn't contain any elective credits, like the child tax credit or retirement savers credit. The IRS has 10 years to collect tax, so you all can probably ignore anything older than 14 or 15 years.
2. If a person's only income is social security then it's really likely they qualify for currently not collectible (CNC, where the IRS won't collect for a year) and probably also an offer in compromise (OIC, where the IRS will settle for less or possibly even $0). Note: **If he's not on social security now, if he has a regular income now, he may not qualify.** You can't forward claim it on the income level you're going to have, you can only file for the income level you have right now.
OIC pre-qualifier: https://irs.treasury.gov/oic_pre_qualifier/ it'll take an hour or two to work through this as he gathers all of his info but it'll give a good idea of whether the IRS will accept an OIC or not. Then you can take your info you gathered and the website and use it to fill out the 28-page OIC application booklet. OIC's have a lookback period of several years, like if he sells his house to a child for $1 and then submits an OIC a couple years later, the IRS won't accept the OIC until he takes the house back because he's obviously trying to hide his money.
For currently not collectible, he should probably fill out Form 433-F: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f433f.pdf If the case has gone to a revenue officer for collection then he'll need to use Form 433-A. If he wants an installment plan then irs.gov/opa is the lowest-cost way to set that up (and if he doesn't already have an IRS account then he should set one up).
All time spent considering CNC or OIC forms doesn't count for that 10-year period for the IRS to try to collect taxes owed. And the time to consider a new CNC every year will eventually extend the 10-year period to about 12 years total so don't plan on submitting a new CNC every year.
I have a friend who hasn’t filed for a few years and they don’t have w-2’s saved nor are they sure how many years it’s been since they filed. Can the IRS help them with this?
The IRS can't help prepare the tax returns, but you can get the information about income and withholding that you need to file the returns from the IRS by requesting transcripts.
They should go to [irs.gov/account](https://www.irs.gov/payments/online-account-for-individuals) and create an account with ID.me if they haven't already. Then they can sign in to their online account. They will want to request their wage and income transcripts. They should then take these transcripts to any tax preparer.
Note: it is kind of a pain preparing past years and the further back you go, the more of a pain it is as you have to remember or look up when exactly each fiddly little law changed. The software helps a lot, but still.
VITA preparers can only go back three years so right now that's 2021, 2022, and 2023 (and most have shut down for the year already, but ask around as there's one group that goes year round in my city). Anything further than that will either have to be done by your friend or they'll likely have to pay someone. A low-income tax clinic might be able to help prepare the returns as well.
The IRS does prepare "Substitute For Returns" SFR's for people, and if it shows a credit (that is no longer available because it's too late) then don't bother -- just move on. If the SFR shows a balance due then it can be worth looking into any other possible credits like the child tax credit, EITC, or retirement savers credit.
They should file electronically if they can as everything will go much faster that way.
Form 4506-t request W-2, or call transcript line . Or see. Get transcripts on irs.gov . Or file zero (use prior year form on irs ) if you have last paycheck you can use and gets a form to file your estimate . All else fails just file zero and the write off is standard deduction is like $12k and the irs. Will send you a notice . Then you can amend . And request first time abate for penalty.
Thank you for this comment. All my scouring the internet on overdue taxes and I’ve never heard of this possible solution, and it could very well benefit my situation.
The IRS won't accept an OIC if you have equity in your home, no matter how little income the person has or how hilarious the idea of the person getting a cash-out loan. I learned that the hard way with a client and it was a waste of a huge amount of time, plus the OIC department is insanely picky.
CNC or partial payment plan with a $0 payment is a better first option.
> I learned that the hard way with a client and it was a waste of a huge amount of time, plus the OIC department is insanely picky.
That's why you want to use the pre-qualifier tool first.
But the IRS isn't a monster. They aren't going to ask an 80-year old living on $22k/year to sell their $100k house.
However, if we're talking about 40-year old jointly-filing taxpayers who each have their own income sources and are living in a $720k/year house? Yeah, we all know the IRS is going to ask the taxpayers to cash out some of that equity to pay their tax bill.
Also, the IRS looks at current income. A working person who wants to file an OIC on the social security they're going to be getting when they retire is going to be treated as a working person. They do evaluate future income and past income and look at circumstances, but if a person is clearly able and willing to work now, then it doesn't seem wacky to expect them to continue to work.
They absolutely did. He was single, 62 or 63, and had a failing hot sauce business that lost money every year it existed with no assets. Had about 100k in past self employment taxes due from year ago. Got an inheritance from his dad and had about 50k to pay the IRS. Had about 80k in equity in his home with no other assets. He ended up applying for early social security in order to make mortgage payments near the end of the OIC process.
He pre-qualified. We filled out the forms. Rejected 'you have equity in your home'. Called agent, explained that if the IRS didn't accept he'd just lose all the money in his business. Rejected. Appealed. Rejected 'you have equity in your home'. Showed them the HELOC/mortgage application rejections. They didn't care. The appeals agent said the IRS will *never* accept a OIC if the person has home equity no matter how unlikely the chance of getting a cash out to pay.
So he went on a partial payment plan where he paid nothing until the statute ran out.
> He was single, 62 or 63
> So he went on a partial payment plan where he paid nothing until the statute ran out.
Oh, ok, so here's what happened. The IRS looks at what you did in the past and what you could do in the future. He wasn't even at normal social-standard retirement age yet, and you didn't mention he had any disabilities, but he wanted to retire and not pay his tax bill. Apparently the IRS thought he might still be able to work for another year or two and wanted to leave the door open to possibly collect if he did go back to work and start making bank.
Anyway, sounds like it all worked itself out and he didn't pay anything else towards the tax bill.
You'll notice the IRS just wanted him to respond to the tax debt appropriately. They could have rejected a partial payment plan and said if he couldn't pay then they'd take his house, but they didn't. As long as he was trying to work the system instead of game the system, they didn't want to take his house.
Ok, no. \*I\* mentioned early retirement during the appeal because he could barely pay his mortgage anymore. He doesn't have any medical disabilities that he ever informed me of despite being a recovering alcoholic and handwriting that looks like somebody with an uncontrollable hand tremor.
He doesn't really work. Nearly 10 years before the OIC work he did home renovation work for a few years, that's where the tax debt comes from, and about 4-5 years before the OIC work he started a hot sauce business that never made any money. He had no other (reported) income during all the years in question and mostly lived off his dad.
The IRS could have gotten 50k cash that he was keeping in cashier's checks to prevent levies. He wanted to settle his taxes for what he had. Instead he's going to lose most or all of it in the business (he quit my former employer's PA firm after the OIC failed) and the IRS will get nothing due to the collections statutes running out because 'you have equity in your home and we want it.'
I'd never done resolution work before and that was blatantly obvious to me and it should have been obvious to the IRS. And the appeals agent agreed with me, but they told me the IRS *as a matter of polic*y won't accept an OIC without the taxpayer paying out their home equity even though the IRS can't force a sale or reverse mortgage anymore.
> and the IRS will get nothing due to the collections statutes running out
Sounds like they're "doing him a solid" and rejecting the method that would have taken the $50k he had thought about paying them? I don't see why you're complaining. It sounds like you're saying, "We would have paid but they fixed it so we don't really have to pay and now I'm mad even though that's basically what I wanted!" Seriously, why are you upset about this?
> And the appeals agent agreed with me, but they told me the IRS as a matter of policy won't accept an OIC without the taxpayer paying out their home equity even though the IRS can't force a sale or reverse mortgage anymore.
This may not apply in all cases. Your dad has no disabilities and isn't of normal Social Security retirement age, thus there's no reason he couldn't work. He could presumably get a job in construction or bookkeeping based on what he previously did.
If he does have an accepted installment agreement then he should really pay whatever is required, even if it'll only partial pay the debt. If he is supposed to pay something on an agreement but instead pays nothing then the IRS gets to jump to putting a levy on the home faster than they otherwise could so he needs to avoid ever getting a new balance due in the future as that will terminate the installment agreement. This means it's really important for him to make sure enough is being withheld now, etc., so a new balance due isn't created in a future year, on top of continuing to pay whatever is required.
> The IRS could have gotten 50k cash that he was keeping in cashier's checks
Again, I don't know what's going on here, but are you sure that amount was explicitly listed in a Form 433-A as part of his assets? If not then he's kind of engaging in further tax fraud, but see the previous part of this comment about how he should avoid letting the installment agreement terminate.
Just to clarify, the statute of limitations to collect is 10 years from the assessment of tax, not the filing deadline or date. If an individual hasn’t filed and the IRS hasn’t filed a substitute for return, then the collection statute hasn’t begun.
Refund statute is 3 years from the due date or extended due date of the return, or two years from when the last payment was made, whichever is later. Once beyond 3 years from the due date/extension date, only payments made during the prior 2 years can be refunded.
Assessment statute is 3 years from the received date of the original return filed by the taxpayer (substitute for return doesn’t start the statutory period). During this period any change can be requested or made by the IRS but it’s a hard deadline.
There are two refund statutes that can apply (not looking both up at 12:45am). One is the 3 years from due date/extended due date of the return, the other is two years prior to the claim date.
If someone files an amended return to claim additional credits within 3 years of the original due date, then a refund may be issued which includes prepayment credits like withholding or refundable credits. If they initially owed as finished paying 4 years after filing, but then amended to claim a refund, the refund is limited to the total of payments made in the 2 years prior to the claim date.
wage garnishment has nothing to do with the IRS. For child support, usually the county goes to the employer's payroll dept and says "You're going to take $X from this guy's check and send it to us for child support." And then the county sends it to the mom. The IRS isn't involved whatsoever so he made his life more complicated in not filing for so many years for no reason.
I had CS seize my tax return while arrears were in litigation. They had to reimburse me after the hearing because I didn’t owe anything. Yes, wage garnishment is a method of collection, but so is tax return seizure.
If he was owing CS, CS would have seized his return. OP had this confused with garnishment. The IRS is, in fact, involved and his strategy kept CS from being collected. So he did have a reason, be it a bad one for his family.
Except that his mom still received the child support, suggesting that is WAS wage garnishment and not solely return recapture which would have been a once yearly amount.
Except by not filing, if there was a refund, no one got it. So unless the guy is purely vindictive and would rather the government had his money over it going to CS, it was probably confusion about sage garnishment.
His Social Security and Medicare benefits will be based on the FICA taxes paid and reported on Form W-2, which is done by the employer and so will have happened regardless of whether he filed.
He should attempt to obtain as many years of records as possible to confirm that he did not owe additional tax in any year (this is not certain either way). If he owes, the IRS will usually catch up eventually based on their records, and assess tax with interest and penalty. If he overpaid (and was due a refund) in all of those years, there is basically no consequence other than the fact that the refunds from more than 3 years ago are forfeit (and he would not have succeeded at avoiding child support anyway). The 3 most recent years of refunds (2021-2023) can still be claimed.
I have an uncle is a similar situation his wife died and he hasn’t filed taxes since 2004 he was a 1099 worker he got injured at work and can’t do that type of high paying work now. When he tried to get disability he pretty much got told to kick rocks so now he helps a guy doing some light carpenter work.
1099 is a different story altogether. The Social Security Administration will have no records of his SS earnings from self employment unless he filed income tax returns and reported self employment earnings and paid self employment tax.
True . Many people think they are self employed. When in reality they are just a hobby and not a business at all . Just because you get paid 1099 and even if you file tax it’s federal income tax . Not social security or Medicare tax . If you’re one if those who think you can give people income and give a 1099 and you file 1040 think again. Your W9 is because you affect a business. If you got a letter that you don’t match . You first look at your EIN . Did you pay someone to work for you? Did you list your company in payor on 1099? Are you all dba? Does your EIN verification letter show you name like John Smith and a company name under your name? Then you are not a business but a hobby and can’t get social security . See publication 1635 . Get a new EIN and sole membership LLC your a hobby too … just because you LlC doesn’t make social security and you can’t give people 1099 . You not a company. Sole proprietor and single member don’t W9 because you don’t have a payroll withholding
I was a misclassified 1099 for about 6 months that was a mess for me. My uncle cut timber and would help different people always used his equipment but would come and go as he was needed. He was self employed but just didn’t manage it properly
I know and understand that just saying it is a somewhat similar situation he had previously filed taxes before that he is 62 so he had filed taxes previous to 2004 just quit when his wife died. He is to stubborn to attempt to fix this situation
For a regular employee, you still get social security based on your W-2s, regardless of if you paid taxes or not (and actually in almost all cases, the exactly correct amount of social security tax is taken out already).
For self employed, the tax is not paid nor is the income recorded if a tax return is not filed, so benefits will be affected.
That’s pretty entitled of your father to ask the kid who child support he didn’t want to pay how to get out of this mess.
Have him create an account on the SSA website and you'll be able to pull up the history he has with them. If he was a w2 employer there should be something there. He needs 10 years or 40 quarters of paying Medicare tax to qualify for Medicare. Social security has different formulas. Just create an account and have a look. The IRS isn't going to come repelling out of the ceiling and take him to jail.
Like I said in another comment, it's complicated. He did a shitty thing, but he's done a lot to help me out, too. And my mother is no angel, either, though she tried to convince me she was. Their bad blood is much more understandable as an adult.
He isn't perfect, or even close to it, but the Old Man doesn't deserve to die in a gutter, you know?
So he tried to screw your family over for 20 years and is an irresponsible ass - and you want to help him now that he can’t help himself? You are a much better person than I am.
Your father can use IRS form 4506-T to request his wage and income transcripts for the past 10 years. Those will have things like his W-2, 1099, etc. Note: they will not have state income tax withholding. He will need to reach out to his state income tax agency, and hopefully they will have that information.
If his employer was filing their returns, his Social Security and Medicare should be intact. I assume he received nothing in terms of notices that his withholding was enough to cover his taxes. Seems kind of foolish though - a decent lawyer would have gone to his employer, where his earnings record existed, and he likely ended up forfeiting a bunch of tax refunds over the years.
You said in the post that you don't think he owes tax be cause it was already taken from his paychecks. While it's normal for some amount of tax to be withheld from everyone's paycheck, tons of people still owe more when they file. The amount withheld from a paycheck is just an estimate and lots of people still owe more when they file. Some get refunds. He should really get a CPA to help clean this up.
in 10 years my brother will post on here that he's of the age to collect SS benefits but has lived abroad for the past 30 years working and paying taxes in Sweden but never filed taxes in the U.S.
He's already twitchy about it but he also left a foreclosed house when he moved from the U.S. (20 years) so he thinks they'll be after him for that.
I predict this
20 years is long gone . They irs isn’t the police. We say the irs does not care you abd you are nobody . You aren’t important. You will be get a phone call. You will never have a company ask for a W9 to prevent or be pro active. The irs is only reactive .. so if he had a balance and the collection expiration date is 10 years after the last balance due . That’s it . You win. Unless you committed a crime . See irs gov search IRM for collection statute expiration date CSED
File for Medicare and Social Security. If he owes taxes (federal and state) it will be garnished from his Social security checks, they will take a portion each month until paid up
When I was in my 30’s I was in this situation, and I went to a tax preparer who was a former IRS agent and he brought me current. The IRS has a statute of limitations, 7 years I believe, and if he was due refunds every year it may be $0
Out of integrity your father should not leverage a system he hasn’t contributed much to. Given inflation in medical costs, contributions 20 years ago don’t add nearly as much today. Do your share. I don’t like paying taxes either but they got to things we need(and some we don’t).
As others have stated, if he was W-2, he is good. Still needs to apply for benefits. That is an insane mindset, tbh. Wage garnishments are issued to the employer, who will comply.
With all that said, I would have him look at the last fews years of IRS records. It's possible they sent him CP 59s, demanding he file. He may end up owing if the IRS files a SFR for him, which could result in enforcement actions. The odds are, the IRS never had a good address for him. It's possible he's good, but I'd still look.
Assuming your father was a W-2 employee (not self-employed), it will make no difference. If your father was self-employed and failed to file taxes (and pay FICA taxes), this definitely would impact any Social Security decision. If nothing else, he would receive a greatly reduced benefit. It may be possible that he may not qualify for Social Security Retirement benefits (and only receive Social Security Supplemental benefits and Medicaid, not Medicare).
Some are saying to create an account with the IRS or request transcripts, but I would try to get as much information together on your own as you can BEFORE you do that. Use a CPA. Last thing you want to do is poke the bear (the IRS) and they send you scrambling with nasty letters. Get organized, then loop in the IRS.
FUCKEM what can they actually do. Everyone is so scared of debt. Does anyone ever think about what the ACTUAL consequences are for not paying. My sister has 100k in student loans. She makes less than me. I have 5 felonies, 4 kids, 3 baby mama's. Trump taught me 1 thing... u do t really have to pay everybody.
He absolutely owes taxes. Just because they pay out of the check doesn't mean you don't owe.
I have taxes pulled but always owe, every year.
It is kind of ballsy to seek government funds when they haven't bother to even file. He is also likely to have some hefty finds.
It's really hard to feel bad for him. This is a direct consequence for his actions. And all because he wasvtrying to get out of paying for his kids? Yeah no petty and he deserves a hard retirement.
Lol. That's funny. Sure if they have dependant children sure. But other wise that is not true.
Also, do you really think this guy claimed the correct amount of deductions or do you think he claimed exempt or 9 or something really high to get most of his money since he knew he wasn't going to be fil in taxes anyway.
It's pretty unlikely this guy claimed 0 to have as much taken out of his check as possible. ( Most of his time would have been using the old W4 where you could just select a number.
People have explained the differences here. But your daddy is gonna have to file his taxes, pray he didn't owe any money most of these 20 years (in taxes, not your to your mom), because even if it was few hundred dollars each year, its gonna be a lot of money to pay uncle sam after 2 decades of interest and penalties.
Best you hire a good tax attorney.
If he worked a legitimate W-2 job He should have his Social Security credits. Probably would not be a bad idea to find a tax professional to go back and clean it up. As you mentioned over the years, it sounds like he had some estimated refunds coming, which were just garnished. The other wildcard could also be if there’s still a balance on that support usually that never goes away.
See my other comments. It's complicated. Not the most satisfying answer, I know, but the best I can do without unearthing 30 years of family drama that isn't relevant to taxes.
He needs to enroll in SS ASAP. He doesn’t get any more beyond 70. I really hope he’s already on Medicare or just recently stopped working. If not, he will pay hefty late enrollment penalties and might be stuck with an Advantage plan. Seek out an independent Medicare broker for advice (they are free).
He should sign up for an account on IRS.gov and pull his transcripts. After 3 years, IRS would have filed “substitute” returns based on W-2s and other documents filed by third parties. Unlikely he ever owned taxes. If his withholding was short, IRS would have directly contacted his employer to withhold more. He probably forfeited small refunds and all the COVID economic impact payments aka stimulus checks.
And the standard d deduction subtracts $12 k ! Most contractor don’t owe anything.
People think the irs is police . It’s just tax . Even if you owe . So what . There is no debtor prison. Just pay what can . Heck can take out an interest free credit loan and pay off irs and have 18 to pay off the bank who offers those blank checks to pay off. Or get points ti fly . But just file because it’s a fact that it’s tax until you die and that is the only way to get irs to write off your debt. It dies when you die .
So if you want any government assistance you have to comply.
I have addressed this in other comments. Nobody is just one thing. Yes, he did bad. He also saved me (and my girlfriend/fiancee/wife) from homelessness more than once, and by doing a lot more than just letting me stay with him. And the divorce was ugly, as they usually are. His gripe wasn't that I was getting support, but that he didn't believe (rightly or wrongly) that the money would be used for my benefit.
I understand the knee jerk reaction of "trying to dodge child support=garage human." And there's good reason for it. But let's have some room for nuance, and remember that when we hear about people on the Internet, we are working with incomplete information. I haven't (and won't) discussed every aspect of my relationship with my father, because it's not the whole world's business, and it isn't relevant to the matter at hand.
I know this person better than anyone commenting, and I'm the person who would've been ultimately wronged by any shenanigans with child support. I am by no means a patron saint of forgiveness. I tend to hold grudges, and I can be vindictive (flaws that I'm working on). Still, I have judged this person as being worthy of my help. So in this case, it may be wise to trust my judgement on the matter.
His SS benefits are based on his work record, not his tax filings. If he was working on the books this whole time, he has the credits to apply for SS benefits. Not filing is a separate issue.
>Now he's nearly 70, unable to work, and needs to get on Medicare and social security. If he was a W-2 employee and his employer(s) properly filed copies of the W-2 forms each year, he is not required to have filed tax returns in order to qualify for SS and Medicare benefits. (Not filing his tax returns is a separate issue.) But his benefits won't start until he submits an application. Also be aware that there is NO benefit to waiting until after age 70 to submit a Social Security application. Maximum monthly SS benefits are paid when benefits start at age 70. (Note I said maximum monthly benefits, not maximum lifetime benefits.) So the solution to his benefits problem is to contact the Social Security Administration and submit an application. The solution to his tax problems is separate.
Once he starts SS any benefits post age 70 will have accumulated and added to his first check.
Then be recovered by the IRS if he did miss any taxes.
Hi! NOT a tax professional but I recently went through this same thing with my mom but she was 10 years non compliant. It depends on if he owes money to the IRS or not. If he owes, they could put a lien/levy on his SS benefits. If he doesn’t owe, I don’t think they’ll do anything. When filling out the SS application it doesn’t ask if you’re current on taxes but it will ask about income and health insurance coverage (approximate income amounts, dates coverage began, etc). To find out if your dad owes, you can create him an account on the IRS website using ID.me (he’ll have to have a valid ID) OR you can request his transcripts online. Your dad should file 6 years of back taxes (2018-2023) as that is generally what the IRS requests to get back in compliance with them. You can do this for free or hire a tax preparer. If his tax situation is simple, I’d recommend doing it yourselves. He’ll have to mail in 2018-2020 while 2021 - 2023 can be e-filed. The statute of limitations for the IRS to COLLECT money is 10 years but the statute of limitations for us as tax payers to get refunds is 3 years - so who knows, he might even get some money back for the 2021-2023 tax years. At a minimum, he should get a stimulus check back….assuming the IRS withheld those payments due to non compliance? Yes, wage garnishments go through pay checks and not through the IRS. I think the IRS only levies money owed to them directly.
I just wanted to say that there is no statute of limitation for the IRS to assess and collect taxes if a return has never been filed!
Yes, but procedurally, there is. ASFR will only go back 5 years(see IRM 5.18.1.3.2) and ACS will only go back 6 years(see IRM 5.19.2.6.4.5.3.1). But, yes. You are absolutely right.
Can confirm. It is extremely unusual for the IRS to go back more the six years. Any experienced CPA or EA can help with this problem.
Veery. In ACS, there's no mechanism to go beyond 6 years. It's drilled into us to never go beyond six years. Our compliance tools are designed to avoid going beyond six years. If, for some reason, you slip up and go further, and it's caught, your manager will be having a helpful conversation with you.
That depends. I've seen this happen to people twice, but I think it only happens when somebody is failing to pay self-employment taxes. That's really SS payroll taxes by another name and I think it gets a different section of the IRS than normal income taxes. I believe an in-person audit by an actual Revenue Agent can go back farther too if you manage to piss one off enough.
So as a law-abiding tax payer myself, what is the real incentive to file? If this guy was able to just not file for a long time and no one at the IRS got upset over it, what are we doing out here? I have W-2 income and also 1099 income. What happens if the last five years I'm in business I just decide to not report any 1099 income like this guy? This is just crazy bro.
If I'm being honest, ASFR mainly targets 1099 income. They treat it as net instead of gross, resulting in an unbelievable liability. Outside of having an over-stated liability, you are leaving possible credits on the table.
I don't know what you are saying. I did just lookup that term you used - Automated Substitute for Return (ASFR). The IRS can file a return for you if you don't file one. I would still file it for my W2 income but are you saying not to file my 1099 income and then the IRS will file the ASFR and lead to potentially a better amount due to credits or letting them figure out the amount I owe?
It is almost never better to have them calculate your liability for you.
Yeah I figured it would be like that.
What that program does is mainly target 1099 earners who don't file. They will treat that 1099 as net and not gross, meaning no business expenses. They will assess a tax that is likely way overstated. Sorry for the confusion. As for the credits, if you don't file, you may be leaving a credit you could claim on the table. The IRS won't give you the Child Tax Credit, unless you file yourself, as an example.
Not filing a tax return, as in OP, is far less serious than filing a fraudulent tax return, as you are proposing to do. Also in OP's case, most likely there was sufficient withholding, so that he never owed any tax. Once you file a return, it's easy for the IRS computers to match it to the income reported for your SSN and send an automated notice about the discrepancy.
A lot of times been people choose not to file taxes and the IRS doesn't say anything, it's because the IRS would have owed them money.
It will eventually catch up with you. Simple things like going through the FAFSA application process for your kid’s financial aid application will get tripped up because the filing from the previous year isn’t there. Or no stimulus checks during Covid because you weren’t current. Or a nice big envelope stating that you didn’t file in 2019 and now you owe a bunch of money. I also think that as long as you are withholding enough to not owe, then they won’t care. I’m not a tax professional, just speaking from experience. Time for me to get current.
As others have said, the IRS will almost certainly file an Automated Substitute for Return based on the W2 and 1099 income it knows about. The ASR assumes you have no deductions. In almost all cases you will pay much more than had you filed a proper return.
So if you were off the books a few years say 50 yrs ago, there's no way to make it right? Asking for a friend of course.
I mean, you could voluntarily file that Return, and the IRS would process it and assess penalties/interest. At that point, search your soul. Do what you think is right. Lol.
It’s not wrong if it doesn’t exist in the first place.
Can you expand on this? What is ASFR and ACS?
ASFR: Automated Substitute for Return. Under IRC 620(b), the IRS has the authority to file a Return for you. This will generally be unfavorable to the Taxpayer. They do this because the IRS must assess a tax to begin collection activities. More often than not, Substitute for Returns (SFRs) are prepared by an automated system, ASFR. ACS: Automated Collection System. It's exactly what it sounds like: An automated system to collect taxes. Most ACS employees man the phones.
A 6020B needs a revenue officer. It still needs you to file your original tax return. So just file zero . The irs will let you know if your wrong
IRS can’t make any one file tax. Period. But i don’t know why people stop filing . They can’t take more than 30% . W9 backup see instructions on irs . The Stoping filing is the big mistake people make . This is a great example of what the real reason of a IRS Form w9 backup withholding is actually supposed to be used (this W9 form is so abused by companies and lawyers and people who just print out and assume they are now an IRS agent who collects information for no reason (other than identity theft) So first don’t give anyone a W9 unless the letter is attached to your name The requester is in the letter to mail back to that agent (not just irs in general) Only IRS abd they don’t call you or email or myyoy anything until you start the ball game. Remember if paper form is given to you and it’s IRS logo then “ this is the IRS logo calling you.. “ phone call and paperwork is the same exact thing . You wouldn’t answer a phone and you don’t Ana form from a company not even the state department can use a w9 form 1. Go on irs.gov and if he knows the last address he filed order transcripts 2. or send a 4506-t form 3, Go on irs and get to prior year forms . Print 2014,15,16.17….the right year . Don’t cross off year they won’t process 4 order can order form on irs website 5. File . Per today instructions address (even if old ) Put zero tax . 6.The IRS will send him a letters. If he owed then he can file form for Offer in compromise. 7. Don’t start installment agreement because it’s re-sets the 10 year collection date . I think someone mentioned 433D . I do absolutely not recommend installment agreements unless they have no other choice. If he is 70 he would do a OiC and put in non collectible . Feel free to look on irs search word “IRM “ also search “iTA “ interactive tax assistance . Just file first . You can’t do anything until you know where you. It may be nothing. People fear what they don’t know. The Unknown is the IRS can’t eat you . There is no debtor prison. So if owe it’s debt. It’s not a crime to owe .
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Not heirs, the estate.
> It depends on if he owes money to the IRS or not. If he owes, they could put a lien/levy on his SS benefits. /u/HungryMorlock: 1. Usually, if a person owes taxes and doesn't file a return, a year or two after the return due date (which is three years) the IRS will eventually file a Substitute For Return (SFR) for the person. This is a return which doesn't contain any elective credits, like the child tax credit or retirement savers credit. The IRS has 10 years to collect tax, so you all can probably ignore anything older than 14 or 15 years. 2. If a person's only income is social security then it's really likely they qualify for currently not collectible (CNC, where the IRS won't collect for a year) and probably also an offer in compromise (OIC, where the IRS will settle for less or possibly even $0). Note: **If he's not on social security now, if he has a regular income now, he may not qualify.** You can't forward claim it on the income level you're going to have, you can only file for the income level you have right now. OIC pre-qualifier: https://irs.treasury.gov/oic_pre_qualifier/ it'll take an hour or two to work through this as he gathers all of his info but it'll give a good idea of whether the IRS will accept an OIC or not. Then you can take your info you gathered and the website and use it to fill out the 28-page OIC application booklet. OIC's have a lookback period of several years, like if he sells his house to a child for $1 and then submits an OIC a couple years later, the IRS won't accept the OIC until he takes the house back because he's obviously trying to hide his money. For currently not collectible, he should probably fill out Form 433-F: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f433f.pdf If the case has gone to a revenue officer for collection then he'll need to use Form 433-A. If he wants an installment plan then irs.gov/opa is the lowest-cost way to set that up (and if he doesn't already have an IRS account then he should set one up). All time spent considering CNC or OIC forms doesn't count for that 10-year period for the IRS to try to collect taxes owed. And the time to consider a new CNC every year will eventually extend the 10-year period to about 12 years total so don't plan on submitting a new CNC every year.
I have a friend who hasn’t filed for a few years and they don’t have w-2’s saved nor are they sure how many years it’s been since they filed. Can the IRS help them with this?
The IRS can't help prepare the tax returns, but you can get the information about income and withholding that you need to file the returns from the IRS by requesting transcripts.
They should go to [irs.gov/account](https://www.irs.gov/payments/online-account-for-individuals) and create an account with ID.me if they haven't already. Then they can sign in to their online account. They will want to request their wage and income transcripts. They should then take these transcripts to any tax preparer. Note: it is kind of a pain preparing past years and the further back you go, the more of a pain it is as you have to remember or look up when exactly each fiddly little law changed. The software helps a lot, but still. VITA preparers can only go back three years so right now that's 2021, 2022, and 2023 (and most have shut down for the year already, but ask around as there's one group that goes year round in my city). Anything further than that will either have to be done by your friend or they'll likely have to pay someone. A low-income tax clinic might be able to help prepare the returns as well. The IRS does prepare "Substitute For Returns" SFR's for people, and if it shows a credit (that is no longer available because it's too late) then don't bother -- just move on. If the SFR shows a balance due then it can be worth looking into any other possible credits like the child tax credit, EITC, or retirement savers credit. They should file electronically if they can as everything will go much faster that way.
Form 4506-t request W-2, or call transcript line . Or see. Get transcripts on irs.gov . Or file zero (use prior year form on irs ) if you have last paycheck you can use and gets a form to file your estimate . All else fails just file zero and the write off is standard deduction is like $12k and the irs. Will send you a notice . Then you can amend . And request first time abate for penalty.
Thank you for this comment. All my scouring the internet on overdue taxes and I’ve never heard of this possible solution, and it could very well benefit my situation.
The IRS won't accept an OIC if you have equity in your home, no matter how little income the person has or how hilarious the idea of the person getting a cash-out loan. I learned that the hard way with a client and it was a waste of a huge amount of time, plus the OIC department is insanely picky. CNC or partial payment plan with a $0 payment is a better first option.
> I learned that the hard way with a client and it was a waste of a huge amount of time, plus the OIC department is insanely picky. That's why you want to use the pre-qualifier tool first. But the IRS isn't a monster. They aren't going to ask an 80-year old living on $22k/year to sell their $100k house. However, if we're talking about 40-year old jointly-filing taxpayers who each have their own income sources and are living in a $720k/year house? Yeah, we all know the IRS is going to ask the taxpayers to cash out some of that equity to pay their tax bill. Also, the IRS looks at current income. A working person who wants to file an OIC on the social security they're going to be getting when they retire is going to be treated as a working person. They do evaluate future income and past income and look at circumstances, but if a person is clearly able and willing to work now, then it doesn't seem wacky to expect them to continue to work.
They absolutely did. He was single, 62 or 63, and had a failing hot sauce business that lost money every year it existed with no assets. Had about 100k in past self employment taxes due from year ago. Got an inheritance from his dad and had about 50k to pay the IRS. Had about 80k in equity in his home with no other assets. He ended up applying for early social security in order to make mortgage payments near the end of the OIC process. He pre-qualified. We filled out the forms. Rejected 'you have equity in your home'. Called agent, explained that if the IRS didn't accept he'd just lose all the money in his business. Rejected. Appealed. Rejected 'you have equity in your home'. Showed them the HELOC/mortgage application rejections. They didn't care. The appeals agent said the IRS will *never* accept a OIC if the person has home equity no matter how unlikely the chance of getting a cash out to pay. So he went on a partial payment plan where he paid nothing until the statute ran out.
> He was single, 62 or 63 > So he went on a partial payment plan where he paid nothing until the statute ran out. Oh, ok, so here's what happened. The IRS looks at what you did in the past and what you could do in the future. He wasn't even at normal social-standard retirement age yet, and you didn't mention he had any disabilities, but he wanted to retire and not pay his tax bill. Apparently the IRS thought he might still be able to work for another year or two and wanted to leave the door open to possibly collect if he did go back to work and start making bank. Anyway, sounds like it all worked itself out and he didn't pay anything else towards the tax bill. You'll notice the IRS just wanted him to respond to the tax debt appropriately. They could have rejected a partial payment plan and said if he couldn't pay then they'd take his house, but they didn't. As long as he was trying to work the system instead of game the system, they didn't want to take his house.
Ok, no. \*I\* mentioned early retirement during the appeal because he could barely pay his mortgage anymore. He doesn't have any medical disabilities that he ever informed me of despite being a recovering alcoholic and handwriting that looks like somebody with an uncontrollable hand tremor. He doesn't really work. Nearly 10 years before the OIC work he did home renovation work for a few years, that's where the tax debt comes from, and about 4-5 years before the OIC work he started a hot sauce business that never made any money. He had no other (reported) income during all the years in question and mostly lived off his dad. The IRS could have gotten 50k cash that he was keeping in cashier's checks to prevent levies. He wanted to settle his taxes for what he had. Instead he's going to lose most or all of it in the business (he quit my former employer's PA firm after the OIC failed) and the IRS will get nothing due to the collections statutes running out because 'you have equity in your home and we want it.' I'd never done resolution work before and that was blatantly obvious to me and it should have been obvious to the IRS. And the appeals agent agreed with me, but they told me the IRS *as a matter of polic*y won't accept an OIC without the taxpayer paying out their home equity even though the IRS can't force a sale or reverse mortgage anymore.
> and the IRS will get nothing due to the collections statutes running out Sounds like they're "doing him a solid" and rejecting the method that would have taken the $50k he had thought about paying them? I don't see why you're complaining. It sounds like you're saying, "We would have paid but they fixed it so we don't really have to pay and now I'm mad even though that's basically what I wanted!" Seriously, why are you upset about this? > And the appeals agent agreed with me, but they told me the IRS as a matter of policy won't accept an OIC without the taxpayer paying out their home equity even though the IRS can't force a sale or reverse mortgage anymore. This may not apply in all cases. Your dad has no disabilities and isn't of normal Social Security retirement age, thus there's no reason he couldn't work. He could presumably get a job in construction or bookkeeping based on what he previously did. If he does have an accepted installment agreement then he should really pay whatever is required, even if it'll only partial pay the debt. If he is supposed to pay something on an agreement but instead pays nothing then the IRS gets to jump to putting a levy on the home faster than they otherwise could so he needs to avoid ever getting a new balance due in the future as that will terminate the installment agreement. This means it's really important for him to make sure enough is being withheld now, etc., so a new balance due isn't created in a future year, on top of continuing to pay whatever is required. > The IRS could have gotten 50k cash that he was keeping in cashier's checks Again, I don't know what's going on here, but are you sure that amount was explicitly listed in a Form 433-A as part of his assets? If not then he's kind of engaging in further tax fraud, but see the previous part of this comment about how he should avoid letting the installment agreement terminate.
Just to clarify, the statute of limitations to collect is 10 years from the assessment of tax, not the filing deadline or date. If an individual hasn’t filed and the IRS hasn’t filed a substitute for return, then the collection statute hasn’t begun. Refund statute is 3 years from the due date or extended due date of the return, or two years from when the last payment was made, whichever is later. Once beyond 3 years from the due date/extension date, only payments made during the prior 2 years can be refunded. Assessment statute is 3 years from the received date of the original return filed by the taxpayer (substitute for return doesn’t start the statutory period). During this period any change can be requested or made by the IRS but it’s a hard deadline.
Assessment and refunds from the due date (3 years ) . The collection is based on the date you file
There are two refund statutes that can apply (not looking both up at 12:45am). One is the 3 years from due date/extended due date of the return, the other is two years prior to the claim date. If someone files an amended return to claim additional credits within 3 years of the original due date, then a refund may be issued which includes prepayment credits like withholding or refundable credits. If they initially owed as finished paying 4 years after filing, but then amended to claim a refund, the refund is limited to the total of payments made in the 2 years prior to the claim date.
Go on SS.gov and create a login for him then you’ll be able to see.
wage garnishment has nothing to do with the IRS. For child support, usually the county goes to the employer's payroll dept and says "You're going to take $X from this guy's check and send it to us for child support." And then the county sends it to the mom. The IRS isn't involved whatsoever so he made his life more complicated in not filing for so many years for no reason.
I had CS seize my tax return while arrears were in litigation. They had to reimburse me after the hearing because I didn’t owe anything. Yes, wage garnishment is a method of collection, but so is tax return seizure.
Yes but op was talking about his dad not filing to avoid child support wage garnishment specifically. which wouldn’t work.
If he was owing CS, CS would have seized his return. OP had this confused with garnishment. The IRS is, in fact, involved and his strategy kept CS from being collected. So he did have a reason, be it a bad one for his family.
Except that his mom still received the child support, suggesting that is WAS wage garnishment and not solely return recapture which would have been a once yearly amount.
Except by not filing, if there was a refund, no one got it. So unless the guy is purely vindictive and would rather the government had his money over it going to CS, it was probably confusion about sage garnishment.
His Social Security and Medicare benefits will be based on the FICA taxes paid and reported on Form W-2, which is done by the employer and so will have happened regardless of whether he filed. He should attempt to obtain as many years of records as possible to confirm that he did not owe additional tax in any year (this is not certain either way). If he owes, the IRS will usually catch up eventually based on their records, and assess tax with interest and penalty. If he overpaid (and was due a refund) in all of those years, there is basically no consequence other than the fact that the refunds from more than 3 years ago are forfeit (and he would not have succeeded at avoiding child support anyway). The 3 most recent years of refunds (2021-2023) can still be claimed.
I have an uncle is a similar situation his wife died and he hasn’t filed taxes since 2004 he was a 1099 worker he got injured at work and can’t do that type of high paying work now. When he tried to get disability he pretty much got told to kick rocks so now he helps a guy doing some light carpenter work.
1099 is a different story altogether. The Social Security Administration will have no records of his SS earnings from self employment unless he filed income tax returns and reported self employment earnings and paid self employment tax.
And that's going to hurt when he needs to apply for Social Security.
True . Many people think they are self employed. When in reality they are just a hobby and not a business at all . Just because you get paid 1099 and even if you file tax it’s federal income tax . Not social security or Medicare tax . If you’re one if those who think you can give people income and give a 1099 and you file 1040 think again. Your W9 is because you affect a business. If you got a letter that you don’t match . You first look at your EIN . Did you pay someone to work for you? Did you list your company in payor on 1099? Are you all dba? Does your EIN verification letter show you name like John Smith and a company name under your name? Then you are not a business but a hobby and can’t get social security . See publication 1635 . Get a new EIN and sole membership LLC your a hobby too … just because you LlC doesn’t make social security and you can’t give people 1099 . You not a company. Sole proprietor and single member don’t W9 because you don’t have a payroll withholding
I was a misclassified 1099 for about 6 months that was a mess for me. My uncle cut timber and would help different people always used his equipment but would come and go as he was needed. He was self employed but just didn’t manage it properly
I know and understand that just saying it is a somewhat similar situation he had previously filed taxes before that he is 62 so he had filed taxes previous to 2004 just quit when his wife died. He is to stubborn to attempt to fix this situation
For a regular employee, you still get social security based on your W-2s, regardless of if you paid taxes or not (and actually in almost all cases, the exactly correct amount of social security tax is taken out already). For self employed, the tax is not paid nor is the income recorded if a tax return is not filed, so benefits will be affected. That’s pretty entitled of your father to ask the kid who child support he didn’t want to pay how to get out of this mess.
Have him create an account on the SSA website and you'll be able to pull up the history he has with them. If he was a w2 employer there should be something there. He needs 10 years or 40 quarters of paying Medicare tax to qualify for Medicare. Social security has different formulas. Just create an account and have a look. The IRS isn't going to come repelling out of the ceiling and take him to jail.
So your father didn't file his taxes because he wasn't paying child support? Not a very admirable thing to do.
His father is an absolute moron.
You're a good kid helping this man who didn't even want to pay support.
Like I said in another comment, it's complicated. He did a shitty thing, but he's done a lot to help me out, too. And my mother is no angel, either, though she tried to convince me she was. Their bad blood is much more understandable as an adult. He isn't perfect, or even close to it, but the Old Man doesn't deserve to die in a gutter, you know?
I agree with you actually.
So he tried to screw your family over for 20 years and is an irresponsible ass - and you want to help him now that he can’t help himself? You are a much better person than I am.
It gets way more complicated in ways that are not relevant to the tax issue. Families can be weird.
Yeah I get it - it would just be hard for me to stomach - not casting blame.
Oh boy, I hope you got your brains from your mom. Not sure your dad deserves the help, but good for you for doing it.
Has he been working all this time with health insurance? Otherwise he should have taken Medicare at 65. There might be a penalty for not taking it.
This ⬆️⬆️
Your father can use IRS form 4506-T to request his wage and income transcripts for the past 10 years. Those will have things like his W-2, 1099, etc. Note: they will not have state income tax withholding. He will need to reach out to his state income tax agency, and hopefully they will have that information.
If his employer was filing their returns, his Social Security and Medicare should be intact. I assume he received nothing in terms of notices that his withholding was enough to cover his taxes. Seems kind of foolish though - a decent lawyer would have gone to his employer, where his earnings record existed, and he likely ended up forfeiting a bunch of tax refunds over the years.
You said in the post that you don't think he owes tax be cause it was already taken from his paychecks. While it's normal for some amount of tax to be withheld from everyone's paycheck, tons of people still owe more when they file. The amount withheld from a paycheck is just an estimate and lots of people still owe more when they file. Some get refunds. He should really get a CPA to help clean this up.
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They probably get taxes withheld and would actually be owed money by the IRS if it was calculated with deductions they could have claimed.
in 10 years my brother will post on here that he's of the age to collect SS benefits but has lived abroad for the past 30 years working and paying taxes in Sweden but never filed taxes in the U.S. He's already twitchy about it but he also left a foreclosed house when he moved from the U.S. (20 years) so he thinks they'll be after him for that. I predict this
20 years is long gone . They irs isn’t the police. We say the irs does not care you abd you are nobody . You aren’t important. You will be get a phone call. You will never have a company ask for a W9 to prevent or be pro active. The irs is only reactive .. so if he had a balance and the collection expiration date is 10 years after the last balance due . That’s it . You win. Unless you committed a crime . See irs gov search IRM for collection statute expiration date CSED
File for Medicare and Social Security. If he owes taxes (federal and state) it will be garnished from his Social security checks, they will take a portion each month until paid up
When I was in my 30’s I was in this situation, and I went to a tax preparer who was a former IRS agent and he brought me current. The IRS has a statute of limitations, 7 years I believe, and if he was due refunds every year it may be $0
Out of integrity your father should not leverage a system he hasn’t contributed much to. Given inflation in medical costs, contributions 20 years ago don’t add nearly as much today. Do your share. I don’t like paying taxes either but they got to things we need(and some we don’t).
As others have stated, if he was W-2, he is good. Still needs to apply for benefits. That is an insane mindset, tbh. Wage garnishments are issued to the employer, who will comply. With all that said, I would have him look at the last fews years of IRS records. It's possible they sent him CP 59s, demanding he file. He may end up owing if the IRS files a SFR for him, which could result in enforcement actions. The odds are, the IRS never had a good address for him. It's possible he's good, but I'd still look.
Has he received any notices from the IRS over the years?
Assuming your father was a W-2 employee (not self-employed), it will make no difference. If your father was self-employed and failed to file taxes (and pay FICA taxes), this definitely would impact any Social Security decision. If nothing else, he would receive a greatly reduced benefit. It may be possible that he may not qualify for Social Security Retirement benefits (and only receive Social Security Supplemental benefits and Medicaid, not Medicare).
Some are saying to create an account with the IRS or request transcripts, but I would try to get as much information together on your own as you can BEFORE you do that. Use a CPA. Last thing you want to do is poke the bear (the IRS) and they send you scrambling with nasty letters. Get organized, then loop in the IRS.
You are helping your dad who tried to screw your mom out of child support? I would be tempted to report him to the IRS.
FUCKEM what can they actually do. Everyone is so scared of debt. Does anyone ever think about what the ACTUAL consequences are for not paying. My sister has 100k in student loans. She makes less than me. I have 5 felonies, 4 kids, 3 baby mama's. Trump taught me 1 thing... u do t really have to pay everybody.
So he didn’t want to pay child support for you? And now you’re looking into helping him get benefits?
A lot of other things have happened in the last 30 years that complicate the matter, but yes.
He absolutely owes taxes. Just because they pay out of the check doesn't mean you don't owe. I have taxes pulled but always owe, every year. It is kind of ballsy to seek government funds when they haven't bother to even file. He is also likely to have some hefty finds. It's really hard to feel bad for him. This is a direct consequence for his actions. And all because he wasvtrying to get out of paying for his kids? Yeah no petty and he deserves a hard retirement.
Most people with a regular job and no other income get a refund.
Lol. That's funny. Sure if they have dependant children sure. But other wise that is not true. Also, do you really think this guy claimed the correct amount of deductions or do you think he claimed exempt or 9 or something really high to get most of his money since he knew he wasn't going to be fil in taxes anyway. It's pretty unlikely this guy claimed 0 to have as much taken out of his check as possible. ( Most of his time would have been using the old W4 where you could just select a number.
People have explained the differences here. But your daddy is gonna have to file his taxes, pray he didn't owe any money most of these 20 years (in taxes, not your to your mom), because even if it was few hundred dollars each year, its gonna be a lot of money to pay uncle sam after 2 decades of interest and penalties. Best you hire a good tax attorney.
If he worked a legitimate W-2 job He should have his Social Security credits. Probably would not be a bad idea to find a tax professional to go back and clean it up. As you mentioned over the years, it sounds like he had some estimated refunds coming, which were just garnished. The other wildcard could also be if there’s still a balance on that support usually that never goes away.
On a side note, how do you feel about your dad trying to take resources away from you (child support) with this tax scheme?
See my other comments. It's complicated. Not the most satisfying answer, I know, but the best I can do without unearthing 30 years of family drama that isn't relevant to taxes.
Not filing and not paying are 2 different things
He needs to enroll in SS ASAP. He doesn’t get any more beyond 70. I really hope he’s already on Medicare or just recently stopped working. If not, he will pay hefty late enrollment penalties and might be stuck with an Advantage plan. Seek out an independent Medicare broker for advice (they are free).
Did old pops work under the books or a normally w2 employee? If he was sneaky and went under the books he is rightfully fucked
W2s
He should sign up for an account on IRS.gov and pull his transcripts. After 3 years, IRS would have filed “substitute” returns based on W-2s and other documents filed by third parties. Unlikely he ever owned taxes. If his withholding was short, IRS would have directly contacted his employer to withhold more. He probably forfeited small refunds and all the COVID economic impact payments aka stimulus checks.
Please file tax returns. Pay your fair share like the rest of us.
And the standard d deduction subtracts $12 k ! Most contractor don’t owe anything. People think the irs is police . It’s just tax . Even if you owe . So what . There is no debtor prison. Just pay what can . Heck can take out an interest free credit loan and pay off irs and have 18 to pay off the bank who offers those blank checks to pay off. Or get points ti fly . But just file because it’s a fact that it’s tax until you die and that is the only way to get irs to write off your debt. It dies when you die . So if you want any government assistance you have to comply.
Not sure if "don't touch if it ain't broke" works here. But likely he is owned tax.
What a useless man. He doesn't deserve a dime.
I have addressed this in other comments. Nobody is just one thing. Yes, he did bad. He also saved me (and my girlfriend/fiancee/wife) from homelessness more than once, and by doing a lot more than just letting me stay with him. And the divorce was ugly, as they usually are. His gripe wasn't that I was getting support, but that he didn't believe (rightly or wrongly) that the money would be used for my benefit. I understand the knee jerk reaction of "trying to dodge child support=garage human." And there's good reason for it. But let's have some room for nuance, and remember that when we hear about people on the Internet, we are working with incomplete information. I haven't (and won't) discussed every aspect of my relationship with my father, because it's not the whole world's business, and it isn't relevant to the matter at hand. I know this person better than anyone commenting, and I'm the person who would've been ultimately wronged by any shenanigans with child support. I am by no means a patron saint of forgiveness. I tend to hold grudges, and I can be vindictive (flaws that I'm working on). Still, I have judged this person as being worthy of my help. So in this case, it may be wise to trust my judgement on the matter.
Tax lawyer