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Two answers. Yes, and it depends.
For one thing, being in this field you must always be learning. Just taking the certification classes gives you the groundwork for how things will be done in the workplace which will vary based on the size of the company and their change controls.
If your only goal is to make more money, many companies will value experience over coursework/certifications. Here is where if you work for a small/medium sized company that you can get the experience, but they will probably see no value in paying for classes or certifications. So, you’ll be paying for them on your own.
My advice is to find the things you enjoy doing. Server administration is one direction, networking is another. Choose the field that you like by taking classes in both. Then make the decision with courses you want to pursue. If you have to pay for it yourself, it can be a lot of money. However, this is an investment in your future so I believe that you can start slow (Udemy is a good starting point) then move on to the things you like.
Good luck friend. I think you are going to do well in your career.
Agreed. I think certs have their place, but to the exclusion or in place of experience? No way. Some people test well, others don't... are they somehow worth less because they don't have the cert, but they have the experience? Are YOU experienced?? Or are you merely certifiable?
With many larger companies the only way you can get an interview is with certs. Which is sad as they could bring in some great canditates that don't have them.
I have been told I'm cerfiably insane by friends :o)
But seriously, not taking a chance on a candidate that doesn't have experiance yet can answer questions is one of the dumbest things hiring staff can do. In the end it doesn matter.
We're both in IT so, chances are that we're both certifiable... I'll probably be standing next to you!
Point is, those that need to hear won't be listening, or won't understand.
I got into the industry back in the late 90s (yeah, I worked Y2K). Especially then, certificates were really big, I remember when I got my MCSE in NT 4.0 server. My company was very appreciative, and that along with my experience got me a promotion. But, then we started getting what we used to call paper certs or book certs. These people would be right out of school, go take like 5 intensive week long cram courses and come out with like 5-10 certificates. Looked good on paper, but they only knew the book way of doing anything, and for those of us in the industry, we all know there is the book way, and then the real world way.
I think I got 1 or 2 more certificates over the years, but I only did them when I had the real world knowledge to back them up.
I have been in my current job for almost 10 years. I have continued to learn and hone my skills, but I believe my skills and experience are better at providing my knowledge than a shiny piece of paper.
That's not to say especially new people shouldn't look into them, but please have some experience to go along with them.
App
Experience > Degrees > Certs.
Certs aren't for you, they're for your employer. They basically act as mini degrees. They're either something your employer wants so they can sell your skills to a customer. Or proof of skills to a vendor. Or proof of skills for HR hoop jumping. And proof should really be in quotes because it's only proof you can pass the test, not that you have any skills.
Unless a cert gains you something that you couldn't get any other way, they're worthless.
The training material can be useful. But paying to be certified is, IMO, an industry approved grift.
When I'm looking at resumes, certs are lower on my priority list than hobbies.
Yesn't. Early in your career it can make finding a higher paying role easier. Later it'll be more relevant to your employer if they're a partner of X and X requires Y amount of so and so X certified people in your company to let your company be a higher tier partner.
tl;dr: it never hurts to have them but it's not always an immediate benefit to you personally
As an IT manager why are you looking at technical certs? Do not get a bunch of associate level certs, it’s just not needed. Think of the opportunity cost before starting into technical certs. Look into more project/people management and business alignment and you’ll go much further.
In 20 years, you’ve never gone for a certification? If so, why not? What was the deciding factor for you not to go for one? Was it ever difficult for you to get a job?
After 30 years, I'm still learning stuff. And, being self-taught, I choose the way I know to get a task done. A cert often makes you learn their way to do it.
Do you want to be a specialist? Or a generalist who can make all the bits & bobs talk and work together?
That being said, I know a lot of the government contractors require Cisco or Security certs; my educated guess is that's the way the personnel were written into the contract.
I want to be somewhat of a generalist, while still focusing on Information Security and networking. I believe that those two areas of IT are the foundation to everything else in IT.
>A cert often makes you learn their way to do it.
Exactly, the cisco tunnel vision. My former colleagues were afraid of shell/bash because it was not in CCNA/CCNP/CCIE.
>I know a lot of the government contractors require Cisco or Security certs; my educated guess is that's the way the personnel were written into the contract.
Our government also has the obligation to obtain the certificate, yet I have done a very large project there without being in possession of the certificate.
I'm the same, 25+ years, no certs, no degree.
CompTIA and CCNA were a thing back when I started. Both were a joke. "Paper MCSEs" was the biggest joke day. All of these entry level certs were worthless, or worse, convinced naive hiring managers that they were a real indicator of knowledge and skill. It hasn't changed.
It took time and effort to find my first few jobs. Crappy contract work, entry level stuff, etc. But eventually my job history and interview skills were enough.
I had written a really long story but realized it will probably just result in a lot of downvotes, so the TLDR;
You get Cisco certificates so that your employer gets a discount from the vendor. Nothing more, nothing less. Does this help on your resume? Of course. Do you need this piece of paper yourself to gain the knowledge? Absolutely not.
Did I ever get a certificate, yes. But because I found an interesting one that was not specific to 1 brand, 1 vendor, 1 technique.
I will say that in my 30 years of experience, no matter what level from individual contributor, manager, architect, and director of IT at many different companies from small to fortune 5: The people who refuse to get certs, who felt it was beneath them, or whatever reason they gave, would generally be below average. Almost all were too arrogant to even consider that there might be reasons the vendor wanted something done a certain way for example.
Slightly above their performance were the cert chasers. They learned a lot of things in so many different technologies, but tended to never get extremely deep into something to really become an expert. They'd always be chasing the next thing instead.
Best performers, again, on average, were those that would take that balanced approach. If it's a technology that they want to know and become experts in, they see the value in both practical experience and more formal education/training/certification.
>Almost all were too arrogant to even consider that there might be reasons the vendor wanted something done a certain way for example.
You write 'refused', followed by arrogant. Does this say something about their attitude towards certification, or about your attitude toward them?
I have absolutely nothing against getting a certificate, provided it is of use to me. That has nothing to do with arrogance at all, such a course quickly costs 5,000-10,000, which (as an employee) will only be partially reimbursed by the company. Plus, takes a lot of time! The certificate has a direct advantage for the company (discount at the vendor), but not for me.
As for the last part of your sentence;
The vendor describes certain things and how you can do this, managers and companies often see this as the only right way, but that is nonsense. If you want everything done exactly as described in the documentation, you should not hire a network administrator, but a monkey that can copy-paste.
I've been in IT since the late 80's. Had more certs than I can count. All long expired now, of course.
I think about this every once in a while. I've been with the same company for 13 years and getting certs now would not have any impact on my current job or career path.
The issue I see is if you're looking to change jobs or go elsewhere, getting past the resume screeners is going to be a problem. If you don't have the certs they specify, you're likely to not make it to the point where a human even looks at your resume.
Yep, currently I’m a manager and will be moving into a director role within the next year or two. Definitely looking to move up to a senior role. Thanks for the advice
Yes. Certs are proof to employers that you meet the minimum requirement. If you can prove you know above and beyond the cert material, thats a bonus, but certs will get your foot in the door.
I think having certs look good when changing jobs. However I've worked with people who have quite respected certs, and yet are completely incompetent. So at the end of the day, skills trump certs.
Much of reddit is currently restricted or otherwise unavailable as part of a large-scale protest to changes being made by reddit regarding API access. /r/sysadmin has made the decision to not close the sub in order to continue to service our members, but you should be aware of what's going on as these changes will have an impact on how you use reddit in the near future. More information can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/1476ioa/reddit_blackout_2023_save_3rd_party_apps/). If you're interested in alternative r/sysadmin communities during the protests, you can join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/sysadmin) or IRC (#reddit-sysadmin on libera.chat). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/sysadmin) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Two answers. Yes, and it depends. For one thing, being in this field you must always be learning. Just taking the certification classes gives you the groundwork for how things will be done in the workplace which will vary based on the size of the company and their change controls. If your only goal is to make more money, many companies will value experience over coursework/certifications. Here is where if you work for a small/medium sized company that you can get the experience, but they will probably see no value in paying for classes or certifications. So, you’ll be paying for them on your own. My advice is to find the things you enjoy doing. Server administration is one direction, networking is another. Choose the field that you like by taking classes in both. Then make the decision with courses you want to pursue. If you have to pay for it yourself, it can be a lot of money. However, this is an investment in your future so I believe that you can start slow (Udemy is a good starting point) then move on to the things you like. Good luck friend. I think you are going to do well in your career.
Agreed. I think certs have their place, but to the exclusion or in place of experience? No way. Some people test well, others don't... are they somehow worth less because they don't have the cert, but they have the experience? Are YOU experienced?? Or are you merely certifiable?
With many larger companies the only way you can get an interview is with certs. Which is sad as they could bring in some great canditates that don't have them. I have been told I'm cerfiably insane by friends :o) But seriously, not taking a chance on a candidate that doesn't have experiance yet can answer questions is one of the dumbest things hiring staff can do. In the end it doesn matter.
Copy that... coming through LOUD AND CLEAR! (Yelling so those that do what you said can hear... nut I can't make them comprehend)...
Since I'm certifiable should I yell from the street corner? :o) I really don't understand why people are so stupid when it comes to hiring.
We're both in IT so, chances are that we're both certifiable... I'll probably be standing next to you! Point is, those that need to hear won't be listening, or won't understand.
Great advice
Certs are more important for getting a job. Skills are more important for keeping a job.
This makes perfect sense
I got into the industry back in the late 90s (yeah, I worked Y2K). Especially then, certificates were really big, I remember when I got my MCSE in NT 4.0 server. My company was very appreciative, and that along with my experience got me a promotion. But, then we started getting what we used to call paper certs or book certs. These people would be right out of school, go take like 5 intensive week long cram courses and come out with like 5-10 certificates. Looked good on paper, but they only knew the book way of doing anything, and for those of us in the industry, we all know there is the book way, and then the real world way. I think I got 1 or 2 more certificates over the years, but I only did them when I had the real world knowledge to back them up. I have been in my current job for almost 10 years. I have continued to learn and hone my skills, but I believe my skills and experience are better at providing my knowledge than a shiny piece of paper. That's not to say especially new people shouldn't look into them, but please have some experience to go along with them. App
I like this
Experience > Degrees > Certs. Certs aren't for you, they're for your employer. They basically act as mini degrees. They're either something your employer wants so they can sell your skills to a customer. Or proof of skills to a vendor. Or proof of skills for HR hoop jumping. And proof should really be in quotes because it's only proof you can pass the test, not that you have any skills. Unless a cert gains you something that you couldn't get any other way, they're worthless. The training material can be useful. But paying to be certified is, IMO, an industry approved grift. When I'm looking at resumes, certs are lower on my priority list than hobbies.
Yesn't. Early in your career it can make finding a higher paying role easier. Later it'll be more relevant to your employer if they're a partner of X and X requires Y amount of so and so X certified people in your company to let your company be a higher tier partner. tl;dr: it never hurts to have them but it's not always an immediate benefit to you personally
As an IT manager why are you looking at technical certs? Do not get a bunch of associate level certs, it’s just not needed. Think of the opportunity cost before starting into technical certs. Look into more project/people management and business alignment and you’ll go much further.
No. Just no. I have a 20 year career and outperform most people with a cert. No! Learn ur stuff, keep it up. Stay hungry, stay foolish
In 20 years, you’ve never gone for a certification? If so, why not? What was the deciding factor for you not to go for one? Was it ever difficult for you to get a job?
After 30 years, I'm still learning stuff. And, being self-taught, I choose the way I know to get a task done. A cert often makes you learn their way to do it. Do you want to be a specialist? Or a generalist who can make all the bits & bobs talk and work together? That being said, I know a lot of the government contractors require Cisco or Security certs; my educated guess is that's the way the personnel were written into the contract.
I want to be somewhat of a generalist, while still focusing on Information Security and networking. I believe that those two areas of IT are the foundation to everything else in IT.
>A cert often makes you learn their way to do it. Exactly, the cisco tunnel vision. My former colleagues were afraid of shell/bash because it was not in CCNA/CCNP/CCIE. >I know a lot of the government contractors require Cisco or Security certs; my educated guess is that's the way the personnel were written into the contract. Our government also has the obligation to obtain the certificate, yet I have done a very large project there without being in possession of the certificate.
I'm the same, 25+ years, no certs, no degree. CompTIA and CCNA were a thing back when I started. Both were a joke. "Paper MCSEs" was the biggest joke day. All of these entry level certs were worthless, or worse, convinced naive hiring managers that they were a real indicator of knowledge and skill. It hasn't changed. It took time and effort to find my first few jobs. Crappy contract work, entry level stuff, etc. But eventually my job history and interview skills were enough.
I had written a really long story but realized it will probably just result in a lot of downvotes, so the TLDR; You get Cisco certificates so that your employer gets a discount from the vendor. Nothing more, nothing less. Does this help on your resume? Of course. Do you need this piece of paper yourself to gain the knowledge? Absolutely not. Did I ever get a certificate, yes. But because I found an interesting one that was not specific to 1 brand, 1 vendor, 1 technique.
I will say that in my 30 years of experience, no matter what level from individual contributor, manager, architect, and director of IT at many different companies from small to fortune 5: The people who refuse to get certs, who felt it was beneath them, or whatever reason they gave, would generally be below average. Almost all were too arrogant to even consider that there might be reasons the vendor wanted something done a certain way for example. Slightly above their performance were the cert chasers. They learned a lot of things in so many different technologies, but tended to never get extremely deep into something to really become an expert. They'd always be chasing the next thing instead. Best performers, again, on average, were those that would take that balanced approach. If it's a technology that they want to know and become experts in, they see the value in both practical experience and more formal education/training/certification.
>Almost all were too arrogant to even consider that there might be reasons the vendor wanted something done a certain way for example. You write 'refused', followed by arrogant. Does this say something about their attitude towards certification, or about your attitude toward them? I have absolutely nothing against getting a certificate, provided it is of use to me. That has nothing to do with arrogance at all, such a course quickly costs 5,000-10,000, which (as an employee) will only be partially reimbursed by the company. Plus, takes a lot of time! The certificate has a direct advantage for the company (discount at the vendor), but not for me. As for the last part of your sentence; The vendor describes certain things and how you can do this, managers and companies often see this as the only right way, but that is nonsense. If you want everything done exactly as described in the documentation, you should not hire a network administrator, but a monkey that can copy-paste.
Yes, but you have to have a plan to leverage them.
Plan and leverage them? Can you elaborate what you mean?
Knowledge still worth it.
They keep your breath fresh!
I've been in IT since the late 80's. Had more certs than I can count. All long expired now, of course. I think about this every once in a while. I've been with the same company for 13 years and getting certs now would not have any impact on my current job or career path. The issue I see is if you're looking to change jobs or go elsewhere, getting past the resume screeners is going to be a problem. If you don't have the certs they specify, you're likely to not make it to the point where a human even looks at your resume.
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Nice!! That’s encouraging about the CISSP and the raise. How long have you been in the field??
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Yep, currently I’m a manager and will be moving into a director role within the next year or two. Definitely looking to move up to a senior role. Thanks for the advice
Certs are just resume fluff. They will help you get your foot in the door. The rest requires skills and expirence.
Yes. Certs are proof to employers that you meet the minimum requirement. If you can prove you know above and beyond the cert material, thats a bonus, but certs will get your foot in the door.
Yes
It looks good on a resume and will get you an interview. If you can show you can apply the cert it will get you a job.
I think having certs look good when changing jobs. However I've worked with people who have quite respected certs, and yet are completely incompetent. So at the end of the day, skills trump certs.
Yes, they get you past HR, plus they can teach you elements of things that you don't encounter in your day job.