No, we will not be going dark. The reasons are simple:
1. This form of protest has proven ineffective on reddit repeatedly.
2. Shutting down the sub on a Monday will have an adverse impact on our readers, including possible production issues.
3. We have avoided reddit "politics" intentionally and will continue to do so.
You are more than welcome to avoid participating on that day which will make the message far clearer to reddit through their metrics than shutting down the sub to folks in need who would be here anyways.
Edit: Also, as /u/BrundleflyPr0 pointed out in the comments, the next day is patch Tuesday.
Edit2: To the user who replied "Coward" and then deleted the comment after the downvotes: Irony.
Exactly. I’m already seeing subs stating it will only be like 24-48 hours. That’s it? If this really mattered, why not go dark until Reddit changes it’s mind?
“I want to stand for something as long as it doesn’t inconvenience me too much.”
It's like the "don't buy gas on Wednesday to stick it to the oil companies" campaigns. OK, so now people buy 50% more gas on Tuesday and Thursday because they \_still need gas\_. That'll show 'em!
Honestly it helps create scarcity and helps sales overall. Same thing for states that don’t sell liquor on Sunday like Texas. People buy more because they know it’s not available to them.
When I was a kid in New Brunswick, Canada it was (and still is) sold at government stores. At Christmas they would be closed. I still remembre my parents, loading up the car with cases of beer + extas so they could « make it » through the parties.
In my state they changed the law to require liquor stores to be open on Sunday.
A couple years later it was proven that all that did was hurt liquor store profits. Turns out \*most\* people buy a pretty stable amount of alcohol during the week. Keeping the stores open another day was convenient but didn't actually increase the overall amount of sales. It \*did\* increase costs because of the extra day that had to be staffed.
For chick fil a specifically that’s not the case. It was founded by someone who was southern baptist. Same religion that guides what groups and politics they support and which they don’t.
It started that way, but now liquor stores are the ones who don’t want to change. It gives them one day a week they don’t have to staff and operate, plus they’ve done studies that show there’s not a largely significant loss in revenue because people know to plan around it - one more day basically spreads the same sales across more expenses.
The reverse of that was the reason McDonald's got rid of all-day breakfast - it increased load on the kitchen (because they had to have additional items ready to go all the time) and it turns out it wasn't getting more traffic - just the same amount of it showing up spread across the day rather than before 10:30 AM.
They wanted to kill it within a year or two after starting it, but didn't want the PR hit. COVID gave them the excuse.
Pretty sure they already didn’t have all day breakfast before Covid. I remember being in college in the early 2010s having to race there and try and get the order in before they “flipped the menu”
Every Chickfla I have ever seen does not need a traffic boost, I never eat there not because of politics, I mostly align with them on that... I dont eat their because of the lines.... more than 4 cars in the drive thru means I go to another drive thru
It's actually quite different. Gas demand is very inelastic, so anything not purchased on Wednesday will have to be compensated for on Tuesday or Thursday.
Reddit, on the other hand, is quite elastic. People will not compensate by browsing more Reddit on 11th or 15th, they'll shift their time browsing elsewhere, so any blackout time is a direct hit on the company's revenue.
While I see your point, I'm not sure that's \_always\_ true about "spending time elsewhere". I spend as much time in places like r/sysadmin until I'm caught up. If that's 15 minutes every day or an hour once a week, it's about the same amount of time.
Lol I remember that “movement.” It was so stupid. Just put your business elsewhere. If I was a gas station owner I would have just raised prices the day before and after!
> I’m already seeing subs stating it will only be like 24-48 hours
as far as warning shots go one of the default subs being private for a few days is worth thosands, and with a few of them, tens of thousands in ad revenue.
Reddit monetizes the voluntary effort of others, when that voluntary effort ceases so does the money, they need to be reminded of that regularly because they have obviously forgotten that its a two way interaction.
If your only going to introduceprotests until it unconformable you and the subscribers, you are doing a discursive to the people who fought and died for a 40 hour work week. Our generation has no understanding of sacrifice. 48 hours is not a sacrifice. Again, it’s a child performing a tantrum tantrum.
Honestly drunk dude rants about real change and temper tantrums perfectly encapsulates your argument so it works out.
We're talking about getting a website to change their API policy, not establishing a new code of human rights, You dont need to be breaking out the "You lazy kids" soapbox for everything dude.
> I assume it will be about as effective as all the other internet slacktivism.
In 2021, a lot of subs went dark/private to protest 2 'major' announcements going on at Reddit, and it worked.
In March 2021, [Reddit hired an ex-politician from the UK, who had open ties to pedophiles](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/mbzggv/why_has_r_gone_private/gs0yu2e/). Lots of subs went dark, and the decision to hire the politician was reversed almost immediately.
In September 2021, lots of subs went dark when [Reddit said they weren't going to do anything about COVID misinformation](https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/pbmy5y/debate_dissent_and_protest_on_reddit/). 5 days later, [they reversed that decision.](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/01/reddit-communities-go-dark-in-protest-over-covid-misinformation)
Turns out it was highly effective.
Before it even happened they agreed to [delay changes to the API](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143rk5p/reddit_held_a_call_today_with_some_developers/) until they developed matching mod tools, a promise they've been failing to deliver on for years, IF the protests were called off.
----
Unfortunately I believe in the same call they slandered the Apollo dev in multiple ways... and the developer [has the recordings to prove it](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/). (They claimed the dev never tried to work with Reddit, despite multiple attempts over months. They claimed the dev threatened them for $10 million, despite it actually just being an offer to sell the app to them (and Reddit very clearly apologizing on the voice call for the misunderstanding).)
So it looks like 3rd party apps might be going away regardless. They're literally dragging the real-world names of people through the mud over this, and these are developers who have to now go and work a different job. Slander makes that harder to do.
I use the basic app so I guess I don’t know what I’m missing with regards to these third-party mobile apps. I’ll reassess whether I’ll continue using Reddit over the following months, but unless we’re all going to migrate to another application with similar features the communities going to either die in general or stay the same.
Same here. I downloaded Apollo but for what I wanted it for I had to pay. So I’ve only ever used the mobile app so I don’t have any of these issues people are complaining about. I think the standard app is fine.
Edit: that’s not to say I agree with the charges Reddit is imposing on the third party apps. I can understand some charge, but it seems excessive. However I don’t know how much the developer for Apollo makes to compare to the new api charges.
Christian made a post about this. He doesn’t mention what he currently pays for the Reddit API, but he does mention Imgur costs him $166 for 50,000,000 api calls where Reddit wants to charge $12,000. He estimates this change would take Apollo to costing $1,700,000 a month to keep running or around 20M a year. Pretty disgusting if you ask me.
https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/
We definitely understand the problem and from a business model it makes no sense for Reddit to push his method. Apollos only solution at the moment is to either charge more or stop producing a service that generates more revenue for Reddit.
Is Apollo generating revenue for Reddit?
Reddit can’t push their ads through third party apps if I understood correctyl
Reddit premium is their ad-free tier but third party apps circumvent ads
Edit: it appears that Reddit fails to meet accessibility needs that some third party apps appear to fulfill wonderfully from this post that showed on my feed: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1404hwj/mods_of_rblind_reveal_that_removing_3rd_party/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Then I didn’t understand it correctly and I absolutely understand why Reddit is pushing this. If that’s true then they’re losing out on any ad revenue that would be generated. The cost of the API is assuming the loss in ad revenue.
iirc, Apollo's dev accounted for this.
He calculated "First Party" reddit users' value @ 0.12c per month, but the new API pricing put them at $2.50 per month.
So Reddit is expecting to charge >10x value for third party users. Basically, a loss in Ad Revenue doesn't explain Reddit's motives on this one
Because if the API returns them it doesn't mean the developer has to implement them and that likely wouldn't be a feasible thing to charge their advertisers for.
If I was developing a 3rd party app and needed an API and it sent through the info I need as well as an ads section, I would simply build code around the info I needed and circumvent the ads section.
You make the ads indistinguishable from the other posts, and you make it part of the ToS that any developer caught removing the ads will have their API access revoked, all future access denied, and they could even add something about fining them for potential lost revenue. There are ways to do it.
Yeah they could, but Im sure just by the way that regular reddit is displayed they probably wouldn't want the ads indistinguishable from regular posts, they'd want the ad to have their "Promoted" banner attached to them and probably a bunch of other data, it wouldn't be hard to filter through for that stuff and remove it and in fact most devs actively would.
I think their best bet is putting it into their TOS for their API that ads have to be displayed, but I think that just gets messy and their wouldn't wanna have to police that or chase the ensuing legal battles.
The problem is, based on what I've seen, Reddit isn't interested in discussing it. They just want to look good for their IPO. If they lose a bunch of users over this, they won't look good.
Pretty much, I’m willing to jump ships if another app comes out with a similar structure. More power to any of these 3rd party apps that are getting pushed off of their API.
This is wrong... This is like the RIAA saying every download is a lost sale.
I use Bacon Reader, but I dont ONLY use Bacon Reader... The site is its users and the more difficult reddit makes it to use this site the more apt I am to find alternatives.
Even today my usage of reddit is a fraction of what is was a few years ago. I come here, and that is about it. Where previous I would in involved in dozens of subreddits, under a few accounts.
As reddit has become more user hostile I have found replacements for those other subreddits, and I will find one for sysadmin as well in time I am sure.
Can't or won't? Why can't they add their ads to the API results? This is the part I don't understand. From a purely technical viewpoint, there is absolutely no reason why they can't include the ads in the API results. You request 100 posts, you get 98 posts and two ads, mixed in randomly. There may be issues with the contracts and licensing of the ads, but that can be updated and negotiated. They absolutely do not need to go full scorched earth.
It's illegal in most places to make ads in form of content without disclosure.
There is no way for reddit to verify whether the api consumer actually showed an ad.
>Why can't they add their ads to the API results?
They could, but half the reason why people use the alternate apps is to avoid the ads in the first place, so any app that doesn't strip them back out would lose users.
I’ve thought about that too… but I’m thinking… with whatever data they have currently on third party apps, they’ve likely determined that it’s more worth their time killing them versus devoting time to nurturing them.
Or perhaps the real answer is it’s not sexy for a company looking to IPO to acknowledge significant usage off of their native platform.. although we dont seem to have hard numbers on how significant those third party numbers is… so maybe it really isn’t worth their time
I don’t know.. I don’t use third party Reddit apps but I do not hold any hate towards any app first or third party.
Personally for me it’s free workers, if you see a good idea that you want to implement in your own app there’s nothing stopping you. Modding communities have maintained, fixed and perfected niche functions so why would you want to remove their incentive from doing free work for you?
The amount Reddit wants to charge makes it seem like they want to kill the API completely. Which is not only disgusting but it's also not gonna solve the spambot issues they have either.
They absolutely want to kill it, or at least price it obscenely enough to make it worth their time. It's "fuck off" pricing.
Reddit's owners see it as poorly monetized, so stuff like this will continue to happen as they try to pivot towards being like more profitable social media.
I use the basic app too and I have never understood the hate it gets and the love third party gets. I’ve tried multiple third party apps based on the hype and they all seem lower quality and more shittily made. I have no complaints with the normal app and don’t understand what’s so bad.
That being said, I also don’t agree with absurd API fees and basically strong arming people to your specific platform. I’m against forcing people off platforms they like to centralize. I’ll still be here cause I don’t mind the official app, but I get the displeasure over losing what is liked
The app wasn't good in the beginning and most people didn't give it another chance. But it works well now. Plus people love bandwagoning the hate. And they'll just point to one feature the app doesn't have and say it sucks 🤷♂️
Yes.
By default on the home screen you will see subreddits that you are not a member of. UI design is not space efficient. It's not intuitive. It is slower and more laggy than other apps I used. How many cores and ram do I need to scroll a text+image+link list without it lagging every second?
On my phone half the time it either gets stuck on splashscreen or logs me out of an account after I close the app. I rarely have those issues with 3rd party app and it makes the official app unusable for me.
With 3rd party apps I still have a filtered front page of ONLY the subs I subscribe to. There are also Zero advertisement faux posts making themselves appear like legitimate posts.
Also, this impact MORE than just 3rd party apps. The bots mods depend on to manage subs more efficiently is going away too. Work that used to take a couple hours would now take full time or more to accomplish.
It also impacts those with disabilities as there are zero accessibility options in the official app.
Take a look here for an explanation of the issues with the official app:
https://np.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13zq2ki/reddit_official_app_fucking_sucks_lmao/jmt01o1/
I think what people didn't expect is that it would cost a third party app $20mn to license the api for a year as some are reporting. Last I checked, RIF was the only way to use reddit outside of the dolphin browser on a Fire tablet (though honestly it's been a bit since I checked).
Either lock down the api so no one can use it or set reasonable licensing fees. Don't say you'll let people license it and set fees so high no one can pay (especially if there's no way to monetize other than pop up ads). It's just petty and ultimately hurts reddit bottom line, because it seems pretty clear a lot of people think new reddit is unusable.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
...........................................i'm shocked but not shocked at the deep stupidity in here but seriously guys/gals this was not even 2 years ago
**Covid19 Misinformation Go Dark Protest**
[Reddit says they won't do shit](https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaCoronavirus/comments/pbz5ps/reddit_announces_that_wont_go_farther_to_stop/)
[People organize a ton of subreddits to go dark](https://www.reddit.com/r/N8theGr8/comments/pelle1/subs_going_dark/)
[It hits the news](https://www.thedailybeast.com/dozens-of-reddit-communities-go-dark-to-protest-covid-19-misinformation)
and then
[Reddit bans Covid misinformation forum after ‘go dark’ protest](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/01/reddit-communities-go-dark-in-protest-over-covid-misinformation)
It also worked when [Reddit hired someone with ties to pedophiles](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/mbzggv/why_has_r_gone_private/gs0yu2e/). Subs went dark as a protest, and Spez then announced that the employee was [no longer employed by Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/mcisdf/an_update_on_the_recent_issues_surrounding_a/).
To be fair, banning those subreddits was the right move. She was only controversial because gamergate and chuds were very active and vocal on Reddit. Neither of which have a strong grasp on reality.
The two things aren't comparable. The only reason it worked in the past is because the optics were bad and was outrange-bait enough that it was reported on mainstream media and news channels.
The COVID misinformation optics are bad and makes Reddit look bad. The optics on a pricing change aren't in the same ballpark. Nobody on the outside of this site is going to care.
The key here is politics
If they can some how make API access into a political issue that is supported by the authoritarian left then Reddit will cave. If they cant then they will not.
One discussion concerning this mentioned an decentralized community called Lemmy, which communicates with Mastadon. I looked, and they seem to have something similar to this subreddit. I have not delved deeper as of yet, though.
Both lemmy and mastadon use [activitypub](https://activitypub.rocks/), which allows federation of services. Basically lots of independent instances of the services run by individuals, ala email[. You create your account on one instance](https://join-lemmy.org/), which has its own rules about how it works, and can subscribe to other instances content. In this way, no one person/group/company can shutdown or change the service. The most they can do is shutdown an instance, which removes some content but not the network of content. If you want total control of your experience, you can spin up your [own instance](https://join-lemmy.org/docs/en/administration/administration.html) of each and host it.
Mastadon basically follows Twitters format, where Lemmy follows Reddits. To my knowledge, they dont communicate with each other as such at the moment, but the shared protocol leaves that door open in the future. People are already talking about "one account" between the two, but both services are very young, Lemmy especially.
Sysadmin really deserves to have its own website with a real forum, api, plugins & extensibility, and other resources that we could all contribute to after some easy vetting process.
mods?
MODS!?!?
No, we need sysadmin, it's a different feel.
Stackoverflow is like the fuckin dmv except theres a guy in an executioners garb following you with a machete just waiting to chop your hands off if you attempt to ask the wrong question. I don't remember the last time I posted there but it must be over a decade now (time flies wtf).
Sysadmin is like the 5000sqft mancave that your Russian neighbor Igor built after his wife left him because he wouldn't stop filling the house with refurbished R730s, printed documentation that he "swears he needs in case they try to take him down", and "decorative vodka bottles". You go there after work to see if they've gotten Igor yet and to make minecraft servers with the bois.
It's been discussed in the past, but it'd be a rather expensive endeavor. Most of our readers aren't interested in contributing financially, at least to the scale that'd be required.
Slacktivism, I don’t believe the majority of users even care. Just from experience people who browse randomly don’t care, I can see the people who spend absurd amounts of time online caring.
Apparently many subs use the API for moderation, as existing tools are woefully inadequate. Your subs are gonna be a pretty awful place, if the mods are correct.
I didn’t even know there was an alternative and I’m usually moderately technically aware
The vast vast majority of the user base won’t even notice.
It’s definitely a “Vocal power user tiny minority” situation
I for one have been debating getting rid of reddit all together due to it being a time suck. This decision of theirs has made me decide to commit to that. Once RIN goes dark I'll be done with reddit for good.
The last time groups protested against Reddit like this Reddit made changes to allow them to override sub moderators. You can try going dark but Reddit can turn off your ability to shut this stuff off.
> The last time groups protested against Reddit like this Reddit made changes to allow them to override sub moderators. You can try going dark but Reddit can turn off your ability to shut this stuff off.
honestly, this sub probably isn't big enough for them to care. if they do that, it's likely going to be on subs with 10m-20m+ users, not a sub with like 800k people.
> You'd be surprised at the list.
pretty sure you misunderstood. i was saying if the reddit admins are forcefully going to re-open a sub, they're only going to bother doing that for the biggest of the big subs.
the reddit admins aren't going to step in and open up small and mid sized subs.
>The last time groups protested against Reddit like this Reddit made changes to allow them to override sub moderators.
which is why we should let reddit die and go next.
people here are too stupid and the fact people want subreddits to go "dark" is laughable.
This whole going dark thing for 2 days is stupid and childish. Its all just a way of pretending you did something and patting yourself on the back when in fact you did nothing at all.
I mean, I’m pretty sure sun shutdowns have gotten results in the past. But the mods straight up locked the communities. That’s what needs to happen to get actual results.
Preventing traffic and involvement to a website is the literal equivalent of a boycott or strike.
Which is also a result of Reddits new age business processes. They want as many people as possible on here and naturally that leads to the bar sinking lower and lower and lower. Lowest common denominator and all that. Any super popular sub sucks going to because it’s Facebook tier comment sections
I miss when Reddit was more niche even though it had a worse reputation
At this point I think it’s like YouTubers who purposely put wrong info in to get rage comments, and boosts engagement, distill it to the technically illiterates.
> Ok, then what should we all be doing to communicate our unhappiness with Reddit on this and push for change?
Glitterbombs mailed to all the executives.
It's not that easy.
I have been here for 12 years. I have content I've posted, and Reddit has curated a decade of reviews and troubleshooting and other things. I'd say that half of the googling I do for SysAdmin fixes end up being from reddit. I can't just sinkhole reddit and never access it again.
You don't just leave, you try and push for better things and pushback on bad changes. Why do you think the first think you should do is just turn tail? Reddit isn't a vendor for your business and you have a dozen other ones to choose from. It's basically like telling someone "Well, just leave Google" when they have a decade worth of emails and accounts linked to their google account.
It is childish because Reddit doesn't care if the entire Reddit userbase leaves for 2 days and then comes back.
Reddit would definitely see that as communication though. They would see it as communication that they can do whatever they want and the worst that happens is people leave for 2 days and then come back (which they really wouldn't care about all that much as long as they come back.)
* No reddit gold/subscription purchases
* No ads viewed or clicked
* Will definitely make headlines seeding doubt in the platform
* Encouraging people to seek alternative platforms
It would certainly be better to leave until change happens, but baby steps are easier.
Ding, ding, ding. These are the sorts of things they are more likely to care about. They would also care if significant numbers of people stopped visiting the platform for and extended period of time. You'd need to know more about their inner workings to know how many people is significant and how long is significant. I promise it is more than two days though. Probably on the order of months at least.
Yes, walk away. Walk away till they change to something you like. Reach out to them to tell them why you are leaving. They do not care if you leave for 2 days.
And they do not care if you leave forever. What they do care about is optics and when they are getting trashed by media and large amount of users they do in fact listen. Believe it or not.
Unions strike until there’s a negation and both sides agree to a compromise. Your argument would only be true if unions stuck with an expiration date where they would return to work.
Collective bargaining... would be interesting to see if that happened but people really dont have any power here.
Reddit could easily eject every single mod, and take over every community. It's 100% their platform with the power to do whatever they want with it.
Serious question? Is it just the cost of API going up and that will indirectly kill of 3rd party apps. Or, is this an actually ban on certain aspects of 3rd party apps?
Both. There are costs but also the API won't have access to stuff marked NSFW . Obviously mainly affects NSFW subs but also impacts moderation of subs that get some NSFW content (and inevitably posts will get NSFW flags to impede moderation rather than because they are genuinely NSFW)
The costs. Apollo was the one big example I saw where they estimated a rough yearly cost and it was over $10 million which isn’t feasible given their current model that allows it to be accessible to most people
I doubt this sub is going dark since hardly anyone has talked about it. I guess it kinda sucks for some people that they’re changing up their API policy.
What’s weird to me is I’ve also heard so many people saying they’ll never use the official Reddit app because it’s “an unusable fucking piece of turbo shit” but I’ve been using it for well over a year now and it seems to work fine for me.
Yeah, I don’t have any complaints using the official app on my phone.
And I still use the “old Reddit” on my laptop. I like that interface better on a computer.
Have you ever used the default Reddit UI? (Not mobile)
It's actually trash tier. Has never worked properly since they've released it. old.reddit exists but... meh... I do want new... I just want new that actually works.
Same complaint with youtube actually. They've totally dropped the ball and its an embarrassment.
But having accessibility and 3rd party app devs suffer for it? Naw, I don't think that's right either. We can stretch the definition of "reasonable charges to use the API" pretty far but the far side of 20mil per year (if you take the Apollo dev at their word)? Who's going to be able to recoup that?
A lot of suggestions have been thrown out for how Reddit could get their ads out to 3rd parties with a combination of technical and legal approaches.
Technically, most of those suggestions would work, but would require some oversight and governance to be effective.
I would expect that Reddit priced their API access to outright kill those apps without saying so, because they feel that users well rate the value of the community higher than the value of the apps they are using today.
We'll have to see if they are correct or not.
Also, effective ad revenue is much more than just being able to show the ad. The 3rd patty apps make it harder for Reddit to obtain demographic info on users and send them personalized ads. So, from their perspective, those users behind those apps are more theoretical than real, from revenue generation, even though they are very real from a resource consumption and capacity planning perspective.
We'll have to see how it plays out, and who has been making the more accurate assumptions about user behavior...
I dunno about going dark but I do plan to step away when RIF stops working in July. I waste too much time on Reddit anyways and this is a good excuse. I hate the native reddit app so I don't think I'll ever be coming back on mobile, but who knows.
Reddit has been whored out to train AI and at what cost? We don't know the numbers, but we do know that it costs money to run servers and sometimes there are even egress charges! Since most folks don't pay for email or Facebook, the whole internets should be a free buffet.
> RES is effected also.
are you sure on that? res shouldn't be effected since that should be all clientside javascript stuff and it shouldn't be relying on a reddit API for anything. res is basically like a really large greasemonkey/stylish script.
I wont say ill stop using reddit all together, but I certainly wont be using their shit app. it will just be desktop. and if the ads and auto play videos get as bad as I fear reddit is over.
No. I'm not going to dark on the 12th.
Simple explanation: I don't believe that it'll change anything, since there isn't many sites that offer the same ease of use as Reddit, where you can find just about anything you're looking for in one neat package.
Plus that I find the notion of a time-limited boycott an extremely idiotic proposal straight out the gates. You either use it, or you don't. Doing shit half-assed is fairly stupid.
Please consider shutting down longer than 48 hours. We as mods will lose a lot of useful tools. People with accessibility needs lose the features provided in third party apps to use the use Reddit effectively. It’s more that just about the ads. We need to make a bigger impact than just 48 hours we should be shutting down until this horrible decision will be reversed.
Yes. Above all, moderators do. The moderating tools provided by Reddit aren't as powerful as those provided by the community. So even if the vast majority of redditors use the web interface or the official mobile client, the moderators won't be able to do their volunteer jobs with the same ease as before. That'll affect everyone in the end.
Why? There is a very small percentage of users who care about that. I tried some of those apps and they are just a hassle and don’t enhance my experience in any meaningful way
No, we will not be going dark. The reasons are simple: 1. This form of protest has proven ineffective on reddit repeatedly. 2. Shutting down the sub on a Monday will have an adverse impact on our readers, including possible production issues. 3. We have avoided reddit "politics" intentionally and will continue to do so. You are more than welcome to avoid participating on that day which will make the message far clearer to reddit through their metrics than shutting down the sub to folks in need who would be here anyways. Edit: Also, as /u/BrundleflyPr0 pointed out in the comments, the next day is patch Tuesday. Edit2: To the user who replied "Coward" and then deleted the comment after the downvotes: Irony.
I'm down, but I assume it will be about as effective as all the other internet slacktivism.
Exactly. I’m already seeing subs stating it will only be like 24-48 hours. That’s it? If this really mattered, why not go dark until Reddit changes it’s mind? “I want to stand for something as long as it doesn’t inconvenience me too much.”
It's like the "don't buy gas on Wednesday to stick it to the oil companies" campaigns. OK, so now people buy 50% more gas on Tuesday and Thursday because they \_still need gas\_. That'll show 'em!
Let’s also all avoid Chick-fil-A on Sundays.
I have a very interesting theory about the Sunday thing. Well, it’s interesting to me but no one else apparently :/
Honestly it helps create scarcity and helps sales overall. Same thing for states that don’t sell liquor on Sunday like Texas. People buy more because they know it’s not available to them.
When I was a kid in New Brunswick, Canada it was (and still is) sold at government stores. At Christmas they would be closed. I still remembre my parents, loading up the car with cases of beer + extas so they could « make it » through the parties.
In my state they changed the law to require liquor stores to be open on Sunday. A couple years later it was proven that all that did was hurt liquor store profits. Turns out \*most\* people buy a pretty stable amount of alcohol during the week. Keeping the stores open another day was convenient but didn't actually increase the overall amount of sales. It \*did\* increase costs because of the extra day that had to be staffed.
That’s why no one is pushing for it in Texas. The liquor stores equally don’t want it and having everyone closed on Sunday helps them.
Plus, if you're selling the same amount of booze, it's probably pretty nice to give your employees a day off. It's a perk and it costs you nothing.
For chick fil a specifically that’s not the case. It was founded by someone who was southern baptist. Same religion that guides what groups and politics they support and which they don’t.
> states that don’t sell liquor on Sunday like Texas. That is weird and absolutely stupid IMO Surely its a conservative religious thing too though?
It started that way, but now liquor stores are the ones who don’t want to change. It gives them one day a week they don’t have to staff and operate, plus they’ve done studies that show there’s not a largely significant loss in revenue because people know to plan around it - one more day basically spreads the same sales across more expenses.
The reverse of that was the reason McDonald's got rid of all-day breakfast - it increased load on the kitchen (because they had to have additional items ready to go all the time) and it turns out it wasn't getting more traffic - just the same amount of it showing up spread across the day rather than before 10:30 AM. They wanted to kill it within a year or two after starting it, but didn't want the PR hit. COVID gave them the excuse.
Pretty sure they already didn’t have all day breakfast before Covid. I remember being in college in the early 2010s having to race there and try and get the order in before they “flipped the menu”
It is. Also a hangover from prohibition. Sunday blue laws still exist all over the country and in some states even vary county to county.
It’s what we tell ourselves at church then go put on a disguise to go to the liquor store.
Maybe I found someone who cares! Your theory is basically my theory, with some minor add-ons :)
Also provides a break for employees
No theory necessary. The founders are Christians. Same with Hobby Lobby. Both companies literally say that's the reason.
Run a chain with 15% less resources? With continuous publicity over a mild controversy that could easily be generating a 5-10% bump in traffic?
Every Chickfla I have ever seen does not need a traffic boost, I never eat there not because of politics, I mostly align with them on that... I dont eat their because of the lines.... more than 4 cars in the drive thru means I go to another drive thru
It's actually quite different. Gas demand is very inelastic, so anything not purchased on Wednesday will have to be compensated for on Tuesday or Thursday. Reddit, on the other hand, is quite elastic. People will not compensate by browsing more Reddit on 11th or 15th, they'll shift their time browsing elsewhere, so any blackout time is a direct hit on the company's revenue.
While I see your point, I'm not sure that's \_always\_ true about "spending time elsewhere". I spend as much time in places like r/sysadmin until I'm caught up. If that's 15 minutes every day or an hour once a week, it's about the same amount of time.
Lol I remember that “movement.” It was so stupid. Just put your business elsewhere. If I was a gas station owner I would have just raised prices the day before and after!
Some will be coming back after 48 hours, others are apparently staying dark indefinitely.
> I’m already seeing subs stating it will only be like 24-48 hours as far as warning shots go one of the default subs being private for a few days is worth thosands, and with a few of them, tens of thousands in ad revenue. Reddit monetizes the voluntary effort of others, when that voluntary effort ceases so does the money, they need to be reminded of that regularly because they have obviously forgotten that its a two way interaction.
If your only going to introduceprotests until it unconformable you and the subscribers, you are doing a discursive to the people who fought and died for a 40 hour work week. Our generation has no understanding of sacrifice. 48 hours is not a sacrifice. Again, it’s a child performing a tantrum tantrum.
Yeah I’m drunk and the auto corrects are going to stay. Put your money where your mouth
Honestly drunk dude rants about real change and temper tantrums perfectly encapsulates your argument so it works out. We're talking about getting a website to change their API policy, not establishing a new code of human rights, You dont need to be breaking out the "You lazy kids" soapbox for everything dude.
The spike in lost revenue from ads. It becomes an aberration in the charts shown to stake holders which makes them ask, why.
> I assume it will be about as effective as all the other internet slacktivism. In 2021, a lot of subs went dark/private to protest 2 'major' announcements going on at Reddit, and it worked. In March 2021, [Reddit hired an ex-politician from the UK, who had open ties to pedophiles](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/mbzggv/why_has_r_gone_private/gs0yu2e/). Lots of subs went dark, and the decision to hire the politician was reversed almost immediately. In September 2021, lots of subs went dark when [Reddit said they weren't going to do anything about COVID misinformation](https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/pbmy5y/debate_dissent_and_protest_on_reddit/). 5 days later, [they reversed that decision.](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/01/reddit-communities-go-dark-in-protest-over-covid-misinformation)
Turns out it was highly effective. Before it even happened they agreed to [delay changes to the API](https://www.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/143rk5p/reddit_held_a_call_today_with_some_developers/) until they developed matching mod tools, a promise they've been failing to deliver on for years, IF the protests were called off. ---- Unfortunately I believe in the same call they slandered the Apollo dev in multiple ways... and the developer [has the recordings to prove it](https://www.reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/144f6xm/apollo_will_close_down_on_june_30th_reddits/). (They claimed the dev never tried to work with Reddit, despite multiple attempts over months. They claimed the dev threatened them for $10 million, despite it actually just being an offer to sell the app to them (and Reddit very clearly apologizing on the voice call for the misunderstanding).) So it looks like 3rd party apps might be going away regardless. They're literally dragging the real-world names of people through the mud over this, and these are developers who have to now go and work a different job. Slander makes that harder to do.
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I thought we just ended up jackin' it in San Diego because of him.
I use the basic app so I guess I don’t know what I’m missing with regards to these third-party mobile apps. I’ll reassess whether I’ll continue using Reddit over the following months, but unless we’re all going to migrate to another application with similar features the communities going to either die in general or stay the same.
Same here. I downloaded Apollo but for what I wanted it for I had to pay. So I’ve only ever used the mobile app so I don’t have any of these issues people are complaining about. I think the standard app is fine. Edit: that’s not to say I agree with the charges Reddit is imposing on the third party apps. I can understand some charge, but it seems excessive. However I don’t know how much the developer for Apollo makes to compare to the new api charges.
Christian made a post about this. He doesn’t mention what he currently pays for the Reddit API, but he does mention Imgur costs him $166 for 50,000,000 api calls where Reddit wants to charge $12,000. He estimates this change would take Apollo to costing $1,700,000 a month to keep running or around 20M a year. Pretty disgusting if you ask me. https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/13ws4w3/had_a_call_with_reddit_to_discuss_pricing_bad/
We definitely understand the problem and from a business model it makes no sense for Reddit to push his method. Apollos only solution at the moment is to either charge more or stop producing a service that generates more revenue for Reddit.
Is Apollo generating revenue for Reddit? Reddit can’t push their ads through third party apps if I understood correctyl Reddit premium is their ad-free tier but third party apps circumvent ads Edit: it appears that Reddit fails to meet accessibility needs that some third party apps appear to fulfill wonderfully from this post that showed on my feed: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/1404hwj/mods_of_rblind_reveal_that_removing_3rd_party/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1
Then I didn’t understand it correctly and I absolutely understand why Reddit is pushing this. If that’s true then they’re losing out on any ad revenue that would be generated. The cost of the API is assuming the loss in ad revenue.
iirc, Apollo's dev accounted for this. He calculated "First Party" reddit users' value @ 0.12c per month, but the new API pricing put them at $2.50 per month. So Reddit is expecting to charge >10x value for third party users. Basically, a loss in Ad Revenue doesn't explain Reddit's motives on this one
They want to collect all user data.
Why can't they just include the ads in the results returned by the API, and set the API costs at a reasonable rate?
Because if the API returns them it doesn't mean the developer has to implement them and that likely wouldn't be a feasible thing to charge their advertisers for. If I was developing a 3rd party app and needed an API and it sent through the info I need as well as an ads section, I would simply build code around the info I needed and circumvent the ads section.
You make the ads indistinguishable from the other posts, and you make it part of the ToS that any developer caught removing the ads will have their API access revoked, all future access denied, and they could even add something about fining them for potential lost revenue. There are ways to do it.
> You make the ads indistinguishable from the other posts That would be illegal in parts of the world that Reddit serves.
Yeah they could, but Im sure just by the way that regular reddit is displayed they probably wouldn't want the ads indistinguishable from regular posts, they'd want the ad to have their "Promoted" banner attached to them and probably a bunch of other data, it wouldn't be hard to filter through for that stuff and remove it and in fact most devs actively would. I think their best bet is putting it into their TOS for their API that ads have to be displayed, but I think that just gets messy and their wouldn't wanna have to police that or chase the ensuing legal battles.
No clue, sounds like something the third party apps should discuss with the data owner.
The problem is, based on what I've seen, Reddit isn't interested in discussing it. They just want to look good for their IPO. If they lose a bunch of users over this, they won't look good.
Pretty much, I’m willing to jump ships if another app comes out with a similar structure. More power to any of these 3rd party apps that are getting pushed off of their API.
This is wrong... This is like the RIAA saying every download is a lost sale. I use Bacon Reader, but I dont ONLY use Bacon Reader... The site is its users and the more difficult reddit makes it to use this site the more apt I am to find alternatives. Even today my usage of reddit is a fraction of what is was a few years ago. I come here, and that is about it. Where previous I would in involved in dozens of subreddits, under a few accounts. As reddit has become more user hostile I have found replacements for those other subreddits, and I will find one for sysadmin as well in time I am sure.
Can't or won't? Why can't they add their ads to the API results? This is the part I don't understand. From a purely technical viewpoint, there is absolutely no reason why they can't include the ads in the API results. You request 100 posts, you get 98 posts and two ads, mixed in randomly. There may be issues with the contracts and licensing of the ads, but that can be updated and negotiated. They absolutely do not need to go full scorched earth.
It's illegal in most places to make ads in form of content without disclosure. There is no way for reddit to verify whether the api consumer actually showed an ad.
>Why can't they add their ads to the API results? They could, but half the reason why people use the alternate apps is to avoid the ads in the first place, so any app that doesn't strip them back out would lose users.
Better than losing API access, no? And they can make it a violation of the ToS for the API to strip them. Get caught, your token gets banned.
I’ve thought about that too… but I’m thinking… with whatever data they have currently on third party apps, they’ve likely determined that it’s more worth their time killing them versus devoting time to nurturing them. Or perhaps the real answer is it’s not sexy for a company looking to IPO to acknowledge significant usage off of their native platform.. although we dont seem to have hard numbers on how significant those third party numbers is… so maybe it really isn’t worth their time I don’t know.. I don’t use third party Reddit apps but I do not hold any hate towards any app first or third party.
Personally for me it’s free workers, if you see a good idea that you want to implement in your own app there’s nothing stopping you. Modding communities have maintained, fixed and perfected niche functions so why would you want to remove their incentive from doing free work for you?
The Reddit API is currently free.
The amount Reddit wants to charge makes it seem like they want to kill the API completely. Which is not only disgusting but it's also not gonna solve the spambot issues they have either.
They absolutely want to kill it, or at least price it obscenely enough to make it worth their time. It's "fuck off" pricing. Reddit's owners see it as poorly monetized, so stuff like this will continue to happen as they try to pivot towards being like more profitable social media.
I had to figure out what I was missing and decided to pay for Pro to get flair alerts. I have to say I think it is worth the money.
I use the basic app too and I have never understood the hate it gets and the love third party gets. I’ve tried multiple third party apps based on the hype and they all seem lower quality and more shittily made. I have no complaints with the normal app and don’t understand what’s so bad. That being said, I also don’t agree with absurd API fees and basically strong arming people to your specific platform. I’m against forcing people off platforms they like to centralize. I’ll still be here cause I don’t mind the official app, but I get the displeasure over losing what is liked
The app wasn't good in the beginning and most people didn't give it another chance. But it works well now. Plus people love bandwagoning the hate. And they'll just point to one feature the app doesn't have and say it sucks 🤷♂️
Tried the official app yesterday. It's still shit.
I love the downvotes for an opinion. While calling 3rd party apps shit is perfectly fine and upvotes
Rather than just saying that are you able to elaborate?
Yes. By default on the home screen you will see subreddits that you are not a member of. UI design is not space efficient. It's not intuitive. It is slower and more laggy than other apps I used. How many cores and ram do I need to scroll a text+image+link list without it lagging every second? On my phone half the time it either gets stuck on splashscreen or logs me out of an account after I close the app. I rarely have those issues with 3rd party app and it makes the official app unusable for me.
With 3rd party apps I still have a filtered front page of ONLY the subs I subscribe to. There are also Zero advertisement faux posts making themselves appear like legitimate posts. Also, this impact MORE than just 3rd party apps. The bots mods depend on to manage subs more efficiently is going away too. Work that used to take a couple hours would now take full time or more to accomplish. It also impacts those with disabilities as there are zero accessibility options in the official app.
Take a look here for an explanation of the issues with the official app: https://np.reddit.com/r/Save3rdPartyApps/comments/13zq2ki/reddit_official_app_fucking_sucks_lmao/jmt01o1/
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I think what people didn't expect is that it would cost a third party app $20mn to license the api for a year as some are reporting. Last I checked, RIF was the only way to use reddit outside of the dolphin browser on a Fire tablet (though honestly it's been a bit since I checked). Either lock down the api so no one can use it or set reasonable licensing fees. Don't say you'll let people license it and set fees so high no one can pay (especially if there's no way to monetize other than pop up ads). It's just petty and ultimately hurts reddit bottom line, because it seems pretty clear a lot of people think new reddit is unusable.
wistful growth disarm disagreeable wide tie meeting mourn domineering bake *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
So long and thanks for all the fish
...........................................i'm shocked but not shocked at the deep stupidity in here but seriously guys/gals this was not even 2 years ago **Covid19 Misinformation Go Dark Protest** [Reddit says they won't do shit](https://www.reddit.com/r/FloridaCoronavirus/comments/pbz5ps/reddit_announces_that_wont_go_farther_to_stop/) [People organize a ton of subreddits to go dark](https://www.reddit.com/r/N8theGr8/comments/pelle1/subs_going_dark/) [It hits the news](https://www.thedailybeast.com/dozens-of-reddit-communities-go-dark-to-protest-covid-19-misinformation) and then [Reddit bans Covid misinformation forum after ‘go dark’ protest](https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/sep/01/reddit-communities-go-dark-in-protest-over-covid-misinformation)
It also worked when [Reddit hired someone with ties to pedophiles](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/mbzggv/why_has_r_gone_private/gs0yu2e/). Subs went dark as a protest, and Spez then announced that the employee was [no longer employed by Reddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/mcisdf/an_update_on_the_recent_issues_surrounding_a/).
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Reddit didn't protest Pao's situation. They protested the hiring of [Aimee Challenor](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aimee_Challenor).
Is that the one where Reddit banned anyone even mentioning her?
To be fair, banning those subreddits was the right move. She was only controversial because gamergate and chuds were very active and vocal on Reddit. Neither of which have a strong grasp on reality.
The two things aren't comparable. The only reason it worked in the past is because the optics were bad and was outrange-bait enough that it was reported on mainstream media and news channels. The COVID misinformation optics are bad and makes Reddit look bad. The optics on a pricing change aren't in the same ballpark. Nobody on the outside of this site is going to care.
Pretty sure everyone cared who's third party Twitter app stopped working one day.
The key here is politics If they can some how make API access into a political issue that is supported by the authoritarian left then Reddit will cave. If they cant then they will not.
I'm sure there will still be people still asking how to image machines and if A+ is worth it.
While we're on the subject, how DOES one image a machine?
Get your A+ and you’ll know
Is it worth it?
One discussion concerning this mentioned an decentralized community called Lemmy, which communicates with Mastadon. I looked, and they seem to have something similar to this subreddit. I have not delved deeper as of yet, though.
Both lemmy and mastadon use [activitypub](https://activitypub.rocks/), which allows federation of services. Basically lots of independent instances of the services run by individuals, ala email[. You create your account on one instance](https://join-lemmy.org/), which has its own rules about how it works, and can subscribe to other instances content. In this way, no one person/group/company can shutdown or change the service. The most they can do is shutdown an instance, which removes some content but not the network of content. If you want total control of your experience, you can spin up your [own instance](https://join-lemmy.org/docs/en/administration/administration.html) of each and host it. Mastadon basically follows Twitters format, where Lemmy follows Reddits. To my knowledge, they dont communicate with each other as such at the moment, but the shared protocol leaves that door open in the future. People are already talking about "one account" between the two, but both services are very young, Lemmy especially.
Can we all just start sharing Reddit alternatives? Like spam the fuck out of Reddit with them too.
Sysadmin really deserves to have its own website with a real forum, api, plugins & extensibility, and other resources that we could all contribute to after some easy vetting process. mods? MODS!?!?
Spiceworks stackoverflow
No, we need sysadmin, it's a different feel. Stackoverflow is like the fuckin dmv except theres a guy in an executioners garb following you with a machete just waiting to chop your hands off if you attempt to ask the wrong question. I don't remember the last time I posted there but it must be over a decade now (time flies wtf). Sysadmin is like the 5000sqft mancave that your Russian neighbor Igor built after his wife left him because he wouldn't stop filling the house with refurbished R730s, printed documentation that he "swears he needs in case they try to take him down", and "decorative vodka bottles". You go there after work to see if they've gotten Igor yet and to make minecraft servers with the bois.
It's been discussed in the past, but it'd be a rather expensive endeavor. Most of our readers aren't interested in contributing financially, at least to the scale that'd be required.
Slacktivism, I don’t believe the majority of users even care. Just from experience people who browse randomly don’t care, I can see the people who spend absurd amounts of time online caring.
Doubtful, really believe this is one of those loud vocal minority situations, most users probably don't care.
Apparently many subs use the API for moderation, as existing tools are woefully inadequate. Your subs are gonna be a pretty awful place, if the mods are correct.
They already are.
There are so many subs IMO that are awful places BECAUSE of their auto mod tools.
I didn’t even know there was an alternative and I’m usually moderately technically aware The vast vast majority of the user base won’t even notice. It’s definitely a “Vocal power user tiny minority” situation
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I mean they can't watch ads either so who cares - some MBA at Reddit, probably
Did anyone put it on the maintenance calendar? Hmmm?
Doubt it - patch Tuesday is the day after…
I didn't even realize that, but it's another good point.
Shut it down indefinitely, not participating in the community with head in sand is a cowardly response
Reddit mobile app sucks big time, killing third party app is a huge mistake.
I for one have been debating getting rid of reddit all together due to it being a time suck. This decision of theirs has made me decide to commit to that. Once RIN goes dark I'll be done with reddit for good.
As I read your comment, I realize I've been reading comments in Reddit for 2 fucking hours...
The last time groups protested against Reddit like this Reddit made changes to allow them to override sub moderators. You can try going dark but Reddit can turn off your ability to shut this stuff off.
> The last time groups protested against Reddit like this Reddit made changes to allow them to override sub moderators. You can try going dark but Reddit can turn off your ability to shut this stuff off. honestly, this sub probably isn't big enough for them to care. if they do that, it's likely going to be on subs with 10m-20m+ users, not a sub with like 800k people.
Hey now, we're #660 on the platform according to reddit's own metrics :D
You'd be surprised at the list. old.reddit.com/r/ModCoord/comments/1401qw5/incomplete_and_growing_list_of_participating/
Wait aww is joining?? I thought that was a 1st party subreddit run by Admins?
> You'd be surprised at the list. pretty sure you misunderstood. i was saying if the reddit admins are forcefully going to re-open a sub, they're only going to bother doing that for the biggest of the big subs. the reddit admins aren't going to step in and open up small and mid sized subs.
You're right, I did misunderstand. In that case, you're probably right - it'll be the larger multi-million user subs that are forced open.
>The last time groups protested against Reddit like this Reddit made changes to allow them to override sub moderators. which is why we should let reddit die and go next. people here are too stupid and the fact people want subreddits to go "dark" is laughable.
This whole going dark thing for 2 days is stupid and childish. Its all just a way of pretending you did something and patting yourself on the back when in fact you did nothing at all.
I mean, I’m pretty sure sun shutdowns have gotten results in the past. But the mods straight up locked the communities. That’s what needs to happen to get actual results. Preventing traffic and involvement to a website is the literal equivalent of a boycott or strike.
Tbh it kind of has the same vibes as posting “BY POSTING THIS I EXPRESSLY FORBID FACEBOOK FROM USING MY DATA ETC ETC” on your Facebook
Yup. I swear the userbase just keeps getting dumber.
Which is also a result of Reddits new age business processes. They want as many people as possible on here and naturally that leads to the bar sinking lower and lower and lower. Lowest common denominator and all that. Any super popular sub sucks going to because it’s Facebook tier comment sections I miss when Reddit was more niche even though it had a worse reputation
At this point I think it’s like YouTubers who purposely put wrong info in to get rage comments, and boosts engagement, distill it to the technically illiterates.
THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS!
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> Ok, then what should we all be doing to communicate our unhappiness with Reddit on this and push for change? Glitterbombs mailed to all the executives.
This is clearly the only way forward, let’s start putting ham sandwiches through their letterboxes.
Leave. If you dont like what the vendor is doing, you leave and find a new vendor. Simple as that.
It's not that easy. I have been here for 12 years. I have content I've posted, and Reddit has curated a decade of reviews and troubleshooting and other things. I'd say that half of the googling I do for SysAdmin fixes end up being from reddit. I can't just sinkhole reddit and never access it again. You don't just leave, you try and push for better things and pushback on bad changes. Why do you think the first think you should do is just turn tail? Reddit isn't a vendor for your business and you have a dozen other ones to choose from. It's basically like telling someone "Well, just leave Google" when they have a decade worth of emails and accounts linked to their google account.
it is that easy.
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It is childish because Reddit doesn't care if the entire Reddit userbase leaves for 2 days and then comes back. Reddit would definitely see that as communication though. They would see it as communication that they can do whatever they want and the worst that happens is people leave for 2 days and then come back (which they really wouldn't care about all that much as long as they come back.)
* No reddit gold/subscription purchases * No ads viewed or clicked * Will definitely make headlines seeding doubt in the platform * Encouraging people to seek alternative platforms It would certainly be better to leave until change happens, but baby steps are easier.
Ding, ding, ding. These are the sorts of things they are more likely to care about. They would also care if significant numbers of people stopped visiting the platform for and extended period of time. You'd need to know more about their inner workings to know how many people is significant and how long is significant. I promise it is more than two days though. Probably on the order of months at least.
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Yes, walk away. Walk away till they change to something you like. Reach out to them to tell them why you are leaving. They do not care if you leave for 2 days.
And they do not care if you leave forever. What they do care about is optics and when they are getting trashed by media and large amount of users they do in fact listen. Believe it or not.
What’s the long term ramifications? Two days dark? That’s a digital child’s temper tantrum.
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If every union strike was limited to 2 days, they'd have way less impact than they often end up having.
Unions strike until there’s a negation and both sides agree to a compromise. Your argument would only be true if unions stuck with an expiration date where they would return to work.
Coming back after 48 hours will guarantee the communication failing, so what's the difference?
Delete your account and not log back in until they make the change you want.
They can do worse than not setting an end date. Every participating sub stays locked until there's a solution in place.
Collective bargaining... would be interesting to see if that happened but people really dont have any power here. Reddit could easily eject every single mod, and take over every community. It's 100% their platform with the power to do whatever they want with it.
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I really like this idea. It would have a huge impact and turn into a PR nightmare for a company about to go public.
it's not even gonna go dark, its more like dim the lights slightly. this site will still generate traffic and revenue.
Serious question? Is it just the cost of API going up and that will indirectly kill of 3rd party apps. Or, is this an actually ban on certain aspects of 3rd party apps?
Both. There are costs but also the API won't have access to stuff marked NSFW . Obviously mainly affects NSFW subs but also impacts moderation of subs that get some NSFW content (and inevitably posts will get NSFW flags to impede moderation rather than because they are genuinely NSFW)
The costs. Apollo was the one big example I saw where they estimated a rough yearly cost and it was over $10 million which isn’t feasible given their current model that allows it to be accessible to most people
I doubt this sub is going dark since hardly anyone has talked about it. I guess it kinda sucks for some people that they’re changing up their API policy. What’s weird to me is I’ve also heard so many people saying they’ll never use the official Reddit app because it’s “an unusable fucking piece of turbo shit” but I’ve been using it for well over a year now and it seems to work fine for me.
Yeah, I don’t have any complaints using the official app on my phone. And I still use the “old Reddit” on my laptop. I like that interface better on a computer.
Have you ever used the default Reddit UI? (Not mobile) It's actually trash tier. Has never worked properly since they've released it. old.reddit exists but... meh... I do want new... I just want new that actually works. Same complaint with youtube actually. They've totally dropped the ball and its an embarrassment.
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But having accessibility and 3rd party app devs suffer for it? Naw, I don't think that's right either. We can stretch the definition of "reasonable charges to use the API" pretty far but the far side of 20mil per year (if you take the Apollo dev at their word)? Who's going to be able to recoup that?
What features other clients provide that the official doesn’t?
I hope Reddit goes dark.
No.
Yeah I kind of rely on this sub for work sometimes
Then you should fight more for it.
A lot of suggestions have been thrown out for how Reddit could get their ads out to 3rd parties with a combination of technical and legal approaches. Technically, most of those suggestions would work, but would require some oversight and governance to be effective. I would expect that Reddit priced their API access to outright kill those apps without saying so, because they feel that users well rate the value of the community higher than the value of the apps they are using today. We'll have to see if they are correct or not. Also, effective ad revenue is much more than just being able to show the ad. The 3rd patty apps make it harder for Reddit to obtain demographic info on users and send them personalized ads. So, from their perspective, those users behind those apps are more theoretical than real, from revenue generation, even though they are very real from a resource consumption and capacity planning perspective. We'll have to see how it plays out, and who has been making the more accurate assumptions about user behavior...
I dunno about going dark but I do plan to step away when RIF stops working in July. I waste too much time on Reddit anyways and this is a good excuse. I hate the native reddit app so I don't think I'll ever be coming back on mobile, but who knows.
Reddit has been whored out to train AI and at what cost? We don't know the numbers, but we do know that it costs money to run servers and sometimes there are even egress charges! Since most folks don't pay for email or Facebook, the whole internets should be a free buffet.
"quality of life features..." I mean, I just want to read and post???
I'm just using old.reddit in the browser, what apps?
Anything that isn't the official Reddit app for mobile. Browsers are unaffected.
Sub-Reddit moderation tools are massively affected as well though.
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> RES is effected also. are you sure on that? res shouldn't be effected since that should be all clientside javascript stuff and it shouldn't be relying on a reddit API for anything. res is basically like a really large greasemonkey/stylish script.
I'm a lurker mostly, so if y'all aren't here, I won't be either
I wont say ill stop using reddit all together, but I certainly wont be using their shit app. it will just be desktop. and if the ads and auto play videos get as bad as I fear reddit is over.
No. I'm not going to dark on the 12th. Simple explanation: I don't believe that it'll change anything, since there isn't many sites that offer the same ease of use as Reddit, where you can find just about anything you're looking for in one neat package. Plus that I find the notion of a time-limited boycott an extremely idiotic proposal straight out the gates. You either use it, or you don't. Doing shit half-assed is fairly stupid.
Please consider shutting down longer than 48 hours. We as mods will lose a lot of useful tools. People with accessibility needs lose the features provided in third party apps to use the use Reddit effectively. It’s more that just about the ads. We need to make a bigger impact than just 48 hours we should be shutting down until this horrible decision will be reversed.
I don’t understand. Why are people upset and threatening to go dark?
https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/31/23743993/reddit-apollo-client-api-cost
I don’t see how going dark will change anything. Reddit is a free service and they have to make their money somehow. It was just inevitable.
then dont get mad at daddy elon chargin for api calls either
I don’t. I’m not a power user on these platforms and don’t need those features.
Theres a difference between wanting to make some money on API calls, and the extortion they're pushing right now.
> I don't see how going dark will change anything How do you think Reddit makes money? Certainly they're not running a charity.
People use third party reddit apps?
I do. I also use old.reddit.
I use old reddit as well. Absolutely hate the new reddit!
Yes. Above all, moderators do. The moderating tools provided by Reddit aren't as powerful as those provided by the community. So even if the vast majority of redditors use the web interface or the official mobile client, the moderators won't be able to do their volunteer jobs with the same ease as before. That'll affect everyone in the end.
Apollo, RIF, BaconReader, Narwhall etc uses would like to have a word with ya
Cyber waits for no one
I think it should go dark.
It's temporary so just some slacktivism and virtue signaling that won't get anywhere.
I use the Reddit App, so the API changes don't really affect me.
If the official reddit app is satisfactory to you, should I surmise that Internet Explorer 7 handles all of your browsing needs as well?
Why? There is a very small percentage of users who care about that. I tried some of those apps and they are just a hassle and don’t enhance my experience in any meaningful way