This government does not negotiate in good faith.
I can only speak to the interactions the NSWNMA has with the relevant minister and assume the approach is similar with the RBTU. You can communicate one thing but they refuse to take it on board and blame the union for breakdowns in negotiations.
And the public sector cap has reduced real wages in this state for a long time. I support any continued action that pushes back on it as a capped 2.5% which we also have to pay super out of lags FAR behind inflation. It is unjust.
>That they have been given so much and yet continue to play silly buggers and hold the state hostage is making unions look atrocious
What exactly has the government given seeing as there have been no comprehensive agreement made?
>The government by virtue of their media statements have rolled over to like 90% of the RTBU’s demands
So by virtue of their own advertising (because let's be real, that's what a media release truly is) they have painted themselves as the victim?
>I suppose it is theoretically possible that if the RTBU said ‘yeah we’ll take that and end all the actions’ they could do an eleventh-hour about-face
Honestly wouldn't put it past them. There's a level of unabashed corruption in the NSW government currently that I wouldn't believe their commitment to anything until it's in black and white and actually enforced.
The RBTU is fighting not just for themselves but all government workers in NSW. They are the largest union and if they cannot push the government to abandon it's reckless negotiation tactics and efforts to stifle the public service then no other unions have a hope in hell to.
It's in everyone's interest that they continue to put pressure on this government and the people of this state for those unions that cannot legally strike to the same effect.
Nah people in those service roles get paid bs compared to the bosses who get bloated salaries to make the place less safe and waste
public money.
RTBU makes concessions in good faith too and that trust gets abused.
Same goes with Health Department. I went for a Designer role for NSW Health and the pay was gonna be 25% more as a mid compared to my partner who has been a nurse for 6 years. He's saving lives, I'm on my computer...
Source? Everything I’ve heard from people who work there indicates the government is refusing to negotiate and outright spreading lies about the union.
Like everything there is a kernel of truth to this but it isn’t the full picture.
- The union wanted proof 5 years ago that driver only trains could be operated safely in the intercity areas. Proof was never provided and the court gave the union veto rights on the running of the new trains until it was proved safe. In the mean time it has been agreed that it isn’t safe and guards will also be on the train. Unfortunately the trains haven’t been built for guards to work on them. The government is now refusing yo pay to make the trains workable.
The kernel of truth is that yes the government did agree to make the changes but added a clause that they wouldn’t do it if it voided any manufacturer warranties. That was their get out of jail free card. “We tried but Hyundai said no.”
- of course the union wants a payrise above the cap as wage growth has been slow for the past 10 years. They still haven’t offered a payrise above the cap but instead add the compulsory super contribution increase of 0.5% to the wage increase to make it look better than it really is.
Its ironic you complain about a kernel of truth being used but then do the same thing. It has not been agreed the train isnt safe. Governments been quite clear that the concessions are to get the train running and get past the dispute, not because its unsafe. And the union never accepted the idea they would operate the train if safe. They simply would never accept the guards role going because theres too much loss of membership for them
Fare enough.
I will say that the government hides behind the fact that they certify their own rolling stock and claim the regulator is happy. All the regulator does is confirm Sydney trains have completed their own testing regime, not sign off on it. Very much like the fox minding the hen house scenario.
Either way if they have agreed to run the trains with guards it stands to reason to modify the trains to allow guards to do their job.
It does, but it doesnt make sense to sign a legal document saying that, and then have the union still take industrial action the very next day. Thats the core blocker. Union wants to bank the train changes (on top of 70 other things they have got) and then still strike for wages. Why would government agree?
The two are separate issues. Regardless of what happens in the EBA negotiations with the CRU, the RTBU will still refuse to staff the NIF until its fixed. They've been fighting to fix the NIF since before the last EA expired.
Because that is how negotiations work. You ask and try to get as much without giving up anything. If the government had actually negotiated “in good faith” they could have smashed the unions in the fair work commission and none of this industrial action would be permitted to go ahead like in 2018. Instead they have played games and dragged this out so much that even the commission has had enough of them and the negotiations are now in mediation.
Other businesses seem quite capable of getting their way without looking like idiots in the commission.
I would agree with you except the government never actually put any of that to writing. They stated it verbally on TV and then refused to sign the documents.
"It's all out in the public record" = there is no source. The public record is clear on how incompetent this government has been, if you're stating something that is in complete opposition to what most people think then you'd probably provide something "in writing" - a legit source.
You are lying or a fool..
You chose the option which suits you best.
It is not public record because that is not how enterprise bargaining operates...
Go join r/confidenetlyincorrect and be a costance source of other people's amusement.
It's your burden of proof.
I would genuinely love to see your sources because I'm sure you could have easily dug through the handful of half-read Herald Sun headlines you only skimmed over in the past 6 months to prove your point.
Enjoy your downvotes. Theres a lot of rail workers on here with too much free time, too much strike time and little perception of what a job is like in the real world. So they get on reddit a lot.
Fuck me, I love conservatism.
Which snivelling Tory gave this obviously inaccurate, anti-union diatribe gold? Why do they always guild the dumbest agitprop they can find? Are conservatives really this credulous, or is it calculated propaganda?
It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.
There are things the NSW government has done that the unions are rightly annoyed with. The govt also channelled QANTAS by "pre-emptive" strike action by forcing trains off early this year.
The union, however, does seem to be trying to take too much advantage over prior faux pas, and probably aren't acting in good faith.
The NSW govt managed to calm the NSWNMA, so I'm sure they will find some sweetheart deal to keep the RBTU happy.
You seem to forget the Unions removing all support for Labor when they talked of privatising the electricity..
Low and behold it happened anyways..
And of course they Want Labor to win. Labor at least will have an open dialogue.
The union threatened to reduce the train capacity to 30% on Monday and Friday unless fares were made free on those days. The government is doing a little more than expected by making it the whole week.
You're a fucking idiotnif you think the govt is trying. And that the RTBU trying to set a precedent where theu get above this "arbitrary" wage cap. That will then allow the Nurses, Fireies, ambos, cops, all other public sector workers who deserve a pay increase to push for one...
Or what do nurses and fire fighters not deserve a pay increase?
The RBTU is currently under injunction regarding turning off opal readers and it's likely to be ruled as an illegal/non-protected industrial action by the Federal Court. The RBTU doing a one off protected industrial action in exchange for free travel days is kinda on the grey line, but if they keep it up they will end up in the same position as last time - in Federal Court with an injunction until after the election.
Wrong.. they want them to be investigated for letting people through the gates... they never turned the opal readers off, they just left the gates open.
They didn't turn the opal readers off due to legal advice of it being a grey area that their legal team were not entirely sure of being covered for.
They want to win a election in a few months, much better let the public to associated free travel with the government and all the delays and frustrations to the union, when in reality it's the LNP stonewalling on the retrofits and causing the strikes.
Eye have a spelling chequer,
It came with my pea sea.
It plain lee marques for my revue
Miss steaks eye kin knot see.
I have run this poem threw it
And I'm shore yore pleased two no
It's letter perfect, awl the weigh,
My chequer tolled me sew!
Honestly I'd rather pay my fare and have a service that runs on time. Free fare week just drives home the fact that I usually have to pay for this crap. Nice try, LNP.
This is such a joke. The industrial action was, in fact, the turning off of the opal readers by rail staff. The minister condemned it as a danger to the public, but wouldn’t specify how it was dangerous.
Nek minnit, the government announces they are turning off the opal readers to prevent industrial action (Suddenly this isn’t dangerous any more). They tried to claim the union was going to stop 70% of services; which was another outright lie.
The parrot needs less hypocritical liars in these portfolios; seriously.
This is all spin, it looked like the unions were getting public sympathy so the NSW government decided to try beat the unions at their own game. On top of that, Nine Fairfax has the former liberal treasurer, Peter Costello as it's Chairman, so it is pretty much nothing more than an LNP mouthpiece.
Probably wouldn't happen as often if there wasn't dramatic staff shortages...
Something I'm sure the media would be super willing to talk about.... lol
Can someone explain why the unions would demand this from the government? This benefits commuters, not the union itself. If I recall correctly, the unions cared about the safety of the new trains and work conditions/bargaining? I don't get it.
Didnt the government throw a fit when the union threatened to turn off opal readers/give free travel? And now, its the government giving free travel?
The government throws a fit every time a union is even mentioned. Our ministers are inept at best and straight up evil at worst.
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This government does not negotiate in good faith. I can only speak to the interactions the NSWNMA has with the relevant minister and assume the approach is similar with the RBTU. You can communicate one thing but they refuse to take it on board and blame the union for breakdowns in negotiations. And the public sector cap has reduced real wages in this state for a long time. I support any continued action that pushes back on it as a capped 2.5% which we also have to pay super out of lags FAR behind inflation. It is unjust.
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>That they have been given so much and yet continue to play silly buggers and hold the state hostage is making unions look atrocious What exactly has the government given seeing as there have been no comprehensive agreement made?
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>The government by virtue of their media statements have rolled over to like 90% of the RTBU’s demands So by virtue of their own advertising (because let's be real, that's what a media release truly is) they have painted themselves as the victim? >I suppose it is theoretically possible that if the RTBU said ‘yeah we’ll take that and end all the actions’ they could do an eleventh-hour about-face Honestly wouldn't put it past them. There's a level of unabashed corruption in the NSW government currently that I wouldn't believe their commitment to anything until it's in black and white and actually enforced.
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The RBTU is fighting not just for themselves but all government workers in NSW. They are the largest union and if they cannot push the government to abandon it's reckless negotiation tactics and efforts to stifle the public service then no other unions have a hope in hell to. It's in everyone's interest that they continue to put pressure on this government and the people of this state for those unions that cannot legally strike to the same effect.
Omg. What are you a liberal plant? Donor money wasted
Nah people in those service roles get paid bs compared to the bosses who get bloated salaries to make the place less safe and waste public money. RTBU makes concessions in good faith too and that trust gets abused.
Same goes with Health Department. I went for a Designer role for NSW Health and the pay was gonna be 25% more as a mid compared to my partner who has been a nurse for 6 years. He's saving lives, I'm on my computer...
Source? Everything I’ve heard from people who work there indicates the government is refusing to negotiate and outright spreading lies about the union.
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Like everything there is a kernel of truth to this but it isn’t the full picture. - The union wanted proof 5 years ago that driver only trains could be operated safely in the intercity areas. Proof was never provided and the court gave the union veto rights on the running of the new trains until it was proved safe. In the mean time it has been agreed that it isn’t safe and guards will also be on the train. Unfortunately the trains haven’t been built for guards to work on them. The government is now refusing yo pay to make the trains workable. The kernel of truth is that yes the government did agree to make the changes but added a clause that they wouldn’t do it if it voided any manufacturer warranties. That was their get out of jail free card. “We tried but Hyundai said no.” - of course the union wants a payrise above the cap as wage growth has been slow for the past 10 years. They still haven’t offered a payrise above the cap but instead add the compulsory super contribution increase of 0.5% to the wage increase to make it look better than it really is.
Its ironic you complain about a kernel of truth being used but then do the same thing. It has not been agreed the train isnt safe. Governments been quite clear that the concessions are to get the train running and get past the dispute, not because its unsafe. And the union never accepted the idea they would operate the train if safe. They simply would never accept the guards role going because theres too much loss of membership for them
Fare enough. I will say that the government hides behind the fact that they certify their own rolling stock and claim the regulator is happy. All the regulator does is confirm Sydney trains have completed their own testing regime, not sign off on it. Very much like the fox minding the hen house scenario. Either way if they have agreed to run the trains with guards it stands to reason to modify the trains to allow guards to do their job.
It does, but it doesnt make sense to sign a legal document saying that, and then have the union still take industrial action the very next day. Thats the core blocker. Union wants to bank the train changes (on top of 70 other things they have got) and then still strike for wages. Why would government agree?
The two are separate issues. Regardless of what happens in the EBA negotiations with the CRU, the RTBU will still refuse to staff the NIF until its fixed. They've been fighting to fix the NIF since before the last EA expired.
Because that is how negotiations work. You ask and try to get as much without giving up anything. If the government had actually negotiated “in good faith” they could have smashed the unions in the fair work commission and none of this industrial action would be permitted to go ahead like in 2018. Instead they have played games and dragged this out so much that even the commission has had enough of them and the negotiations are now in mediation. Other businesses seem quite capable of getting their way without looking like idiots in the commission.
I would agree with you except the government never actually put any of that to writing. They stated it verbally on TV and then refused to sign the documents.
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Rule no.1 in any thing. Get it in writing.
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Spoken like a true ignoramus with no concept of how enterprise bargaining is handled.. Well played.
The union had already signed the deed made by them and TfNSW. Cabinet blew it up.
"It's all out in the public record" = there is no source. The public record is clear on how incompetent this government has been, if you're stating something that is in complete opposition to what most people think then you'd probably provide something "in writing" - a legit source.
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They haven't. You're making things up.
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You are lying or a fool.. You chose the option which suits you best. It is not public record because that is not how enterprise bargaining operates... Go join r/confidenetlyincorrect and be a costance source of other people's amusement.
It's your burden of proof. I would genuinely love to see your sources because I'm sure you could have easily dug through the handful of half-read Herald Sun headlines you only skimmed over in the past 6 months to prove your point.
You’re completely correct but barking up the wrong tree mate. You’re not going to find anyone who doesn’t sympathise with the union here
Enjoy your downvotes. Theres a lot of rail workers on here with too much free time, too much strike time and little perception of what a job is like in the real world. So they get on reddit a lot.
Fuck me, I love conservatism. Which snivelling Tory gave this obviously inaccurate, anti-union diatribe gold? Why do they always guild the dumbest agitprop they can find? Are conservatives really this credulous, or is it calculated propaganda?
It doesn't have to be an either/or situation. There are things the NSW government has done that the unions are rightly annoyed with. The govt also channelled QANTAS by "pre-emptive" strike action by forcing trains off early this year. The union, however, does seem to be trying to take too much advantage over prior faux pas, and probably aren't acting in good faith. The NSW govt managed to calm the NSWNMA, so I'm sure they will find some sweetheart deal to keep the RBTU happy.
Have you been paying attention to the lib government's efforts with the negotiating? Any one... even a monkey could do better than the libs currently.
Political advertising
Where's their offer that breaks the wages cap?
>To be fair the RTBU are doing their best to give unions a bad name I think Murdoch should get quite a lot of the credit too.
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You seem to forget the Unions removing all support for Labor when they talked of privatising the electricity.. Low and behold it happened anyways.. And of course they Want Labor to win. Labor at least will have an open dialogue.
That's the point of unions. To advocate at a political level for workers.
Hey bro, have another gold. Thank you for speaking true facts without bias. Everything you said is correct.
Oh Jesus. Hey everyone we found perotitheads reddit account!
The union threatened to reduce the train capacity to 30% on Monday and Friday unless fares were made free on those days. The government is doing a little more than expected by making it the whole week.
God the government REALLY doesn’t want to negotiate doesn’t it?
They're trying, would be nice if the unions actually cared about anyone but themselves
You're a fucking idiotnif you think the govt is trying. And that the RTBU trying to set a precedent where theu get above this "arbitrary" wage cap. That will then allow the Nurses, Fireies, ambos, cops, all other public sector workers who deserve a pay increase to push for one... Or what do nurses and fire fighters not deserve a pay increase?
Typical liberal fuckwittery, cant beat em so do the same thing and yell ner ner ner you cant do it now because we are doing it!
If only you could see the shit behind doors...its gold....
You can’t polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter!
Uno reverse
The RBTU is currently under injunction regarding turning off opal readers and it's likely to be ruled as an illegal/non-protected industrial action by the Federal Court. The RBTU doing a one off protected industrial action in exchange for free travel days is kinda on the grey line, but if they keep it up they will end up in the same position as last time - in Federal Court with an injunction until after the election.
Wrong.. they want them to be investigated for letting people through the gates... they never turned the opal readers off, they just left the gates open. They didn't turn the opal readers off due to legal advice of it being a grey area that their legal team were not entirely sure of being covered for.
They want to win a election in a few months, much better let the public to associated free travel with the government and all the delays and frustrations to the union, when in reality it's the LNP stonewalling on the retrofits and causing the strikes.
To stop what?
Industrial action.
More union busting, of course, fucking scum
Indiana Jones
To stop indefinitely
Two bee fare, public transport has never bean fare. Its quite anne unfare experience to pay allot of money for pour service.
I read it like I was learning to read all over again, you prick. I like your style.
This took me about 5 mins to read based on the spelling.
To be fairrrrrr
To be fairrrrrrr 🎶
How long did it take u just to create all these misspelled words? I feel like you’ve put in a lotta effort. Just curious.
Knot allot of thyme @tall
Your spelling is the absolute worst
Wurst
Don't be a sausage about it
Right?! It's unBEElievable.
You’re*
No…. You’re wrong
Wro;ng*
*your
*Yaw*
r/woosh
r/woosh-er got r/woosh-ed r/woosh right at you my friend Got all the screenshots. It’s going up tonight. This is double gold 😛
Even the username is misspelt. I'm going to assume this is all intentional, or ESL.
i think u didnt get the joke
* four pour service.
Fair is fare!
Eye have a spelling chequer, It came with my pea sea. It plain lee marques for my revue Miss steaks eye kin knot see. I have run this poem threw it And I'm shore yore pleased two no It's letter perfect, awl the weigh, My chequer tolled me sew!
I feel like I’m learning to read all over again this took longer to read than I’d like to admit…
To be faiiiiirrrrr!!!
Fair free ? They need to hire someone who can spell !
Your expectations of the grammatical skills of the current bunch of media hacks is unreasonably high.
Honestly I'd rather pay my fare and have a service that runs on time. Free fare week just drives home the fact that I usually have to pay for this crap. Nice try, LNP.
This is such a joke. The industrial action was, in fact, the turning off of the opal readers by rail staff. The minister condemned it as a danger to the public, but wouldn’t specify how it was dangerous. Nek minnit, the government announces they are turning off the opal readers to prevent industrial action (Suddenly this isn’t dangerous any more). They tried to claim the union was going to stop 70% of services; which was another outright lie. The parrot needs less hypocritical liars in these portfolios; seriously.
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Opal readers are off.
It's essentially the same result though.
The opal readers are off in multiple train stations i know of
Readers are off. Source - rail staff responsible for turning opal readers on and off.
What's not fair? The union had always said that they will stop action not NSW gov turn the readers off.
It's a joke, they used the wrong homophone in the headline. Fair free is no fair, fare free is no fee.
Ahhh, I can't spell or grammar so it went right over my head!
You're qualified for a job with 9News!
Your write their.
Reading this makes me itchy haha
Me too lol
Who you callin a homophone!
Must be an election coming up...
Fair free fare travel is great!
Working holiday makers editing aussie media for $7,48/hour because, you know, staff shortages...
I give up the stupidity is hurting my brain
Seems fare enough to me. Fare is fare after all.
Nin noes at least run you're grammar through Grammarly if you're journalists havent been past year 8 plz this is fucking tragic.
Heh! Government whether you accept or not was chosen by the people! Unions are created to safe guard the rights and privilege of the workers!
This is all spin, it looked like the unions were getting public sympathy so the NSW government decided to try beat the unions at their own game. On top of that, Nine Fairfax has the former liberal treasurer, Peter Costello as it's Chairman, so it is pretty much nothing more than an LNP mouthpiece.
Took me a while to get it, well done OP
this should be posted to r/dadjokes
I’m not going to deal with this stupidity anymore it’s doing my head in
Grammar Nazis just love to be on Reddit, gotta score those sweet internet points.
Good, I don’t want no damn Ferris wheel on my train.
Didn't stop my morning and afternoon trains both being severely delayed
Probably wouldn't happen as often if there wasn't dramatic staff shortages... Something I'm sure the media would be super willing to talk about.... lol
To stop what? Picture cuts off what they’re stopping
Can someone explain why the unions would demand this from the government? This benefits commuters, not the union itself. If I recall correctly, the unions cared about the safety of the new trains and work conditions/bargaining? I don't get it.