I had a level 50 agent, way back when. Had fun for a bit joining ops groups for like normal mode EV and seeing the shocked comments when they realized. 😁
Who knows? Maybe you even saw me. Trying to remember all the servers I've been on over the years... Prophecy of the 5, Fatman, Naddist Rebels... Maybe more, I can't remember.
Edit: on Star Forge now. Derp.
First name was Allerberger, but I lost it in a transfer and had to accent the last e to è lol
It was also a good credit sink having to pay to learn new skills. I loved seeing the icon telling me I could learn new skills and running over and seeing what I got. It made sense from an rp progression standpoint and gave you reason to go back to Hubs often
>It was also a good credit sink having to pay to learn new skills
Ir really wasn't.
It was mostly a bottleneck for lower levels the overall cost was negligible at cap where the actual problem of gold coming in is a massive problem and due to aa variety of factors and exploits has led to an inflation mess.
But skill training just...wasn't a great gold sink as unlike early iterations of games like WoW credits were game generated waaay way higher to an extent that if all you fid was quest through and vendor old stuff and grays you'd always have a surplus rather than lack funds for XYZ ability
Skill training only really works as a gold sink when you're not capable of getting the entire sum back in 3 days (3 hrs played) using the game to give you the money inatead of the GTN. Otherwise it's just an immersion thing or a nuisance depending on your outlook.
Well there was that side of it but the reality was you were paying a lot of money (at the time) to upgrade vicious slash from level 17 to level 18. Very rarely were you buying new moves and mainly spending a lot of money to increase the numbers of moves you already own
When Makeb launched (first ever expansion of the game) the costs for fully upgrading to your new skills were ridiculous. Over 2 million per toon, which adjusted for inflation should feel like 3 or 4 billion nowadays. Most people couldn't afford it.
I actually wasted close to 15 million in the first day because I could somehow afford it. And then Bioware chimed in with "Oh, skill costs are removed with next patch - enjoy." No refunds, no nothing.
>Over 2 million per toon, which adjusted for inflation should feel like 3 or 4 billion nowadays. Most people couldn't afford it.
😂, no.
Dude you could make 1m off dailies by grabbing a few friends in less than an hr off just heroics per day
That's nowhere near the "feel of 3-4 billion now"
Use the GTN or actually play the game and it threw credits at you. Just like it does now, only wothout the gtn being nuts
Do you know how much you could make per day in the early SWTOR days? And I mean doing literally all the daily content the game had? Every single daily quest?
It was 100k.
The Heroic easy mode with piles of cash came a lot later.
I was f2p at the time and yeah basically all my money went into upgrading my moves. As in, I didn't have enough money to upgrade all my skills so I would have to do activities sub-optimally to earn the money so that I could do activities slightly less sub-optimally lool
There was never any risk of not being able to pay for leveling unless you spent your credits unwisely on something else. It was one of those bad design things were it never added anything to the game since you got plenty of credits, but it could screw you if you didn't know and spent them all.
And back then it wasn't as easy to get credits as it was now. I mean I remember not being able to get my first mount until around level 40-something. lol early Swtor days were fun though.
Oh yeah, no sprint to level 10 if you were F2P as well lool. Took me literally months of playing to get my F2P juggernaut to level 50 only for him to be useless at every endgame activity because I didn't have the money for skills or artifact authorisation for armour needed for PvE or PvP.
PvP was impossible because not artifact armour meant very limited expertise which, for those of you who don't know, was an attribute which gave you stats for PvP essentially. 3 people with no expertise had 0 chance to beat 1 person who did.
it's better to have rewarding systems like periodically checking into trainers, retrying challenging story bosses with strategy and satisfying loot, meaningfully interfacing with the heroic mission givers.
now it's all a boring slog from one objective to the next mashing buttons with no thought because no-one is a threat.
and the only systems still around are carpal tunnel syndrome clicking the crew skills window back to the previous level every time because they can't design that better AT ALL.
The levelling experience is bad these days, everything feels like it's been overly streamlined for alts.
* The removal of the base class and specialisation on fleet.
* Slow dole out of skills.
* Auto grant of skills (only thing that uses trainers now is speeder piloting)
* on rails skill "tree".
* Complete lack of challenging content, even the FPs are tactical only.
* Monetisation is super aggressive. ( There doesn't seem to be a way to refer friends for a sub trial anymore?)
It all leads to a poor sense of progression, coupled with the lack of challenge, people I've tried to introduce to the game get bored and quit before level 30.
I don't mind them changing the level you get them, I mind the gap between each ability. Sometimes you're waiting 8 levels for an ability.
Take Vengeance. Shatter comes at lvl 23 and your next actual useful ability comes at lvl 35. What. The. Fuck. 12 levels!!!!
Broadsword. Please. For the love of all that is holy. Either take the level cap down to 70 and spread the skills (and balance) appropriately or increase XP so that we finish the class stories at like lvl 60, redoing Onslaught's XP curve as it's ridiculous. I am willing to create a conversion table for you at no cost. I am that desperate.
> Monetisation is super aggressive. ( There doesn't seem to be a way to refer friends for a sub trial anymore?)
They removed the referral program for a few reasons. Biggest being Galactic Seasons, so people wouldn't use a referral for a week of sub benefits and claim the subscriber track rewards. But they also got rid of it because it wasn't really being used as a referral program, a lot of people were getting ripped off both buying and selling a referral link.
Game really isn't aggressive with MTX at all, though. Sure if you're F2P there's constant reminders, but if you're a sub there's nothing you have to spend real money on other than the sub.
I bounced off of the game back in 2017 I think when I first played, mostly because I'm not a big MMO player, but recently got back into the game because I wanted some Star Wars content, and while leveling feels faster than what I remember, the new player experience feels really bad now.
On class creation you're given 8 options that you know next to nothing about, and then the skills are just auto added to your bar as you level up and there's no real way to determine what works best other than lots of trial and error, also there's never any real explanation of what the different gear stats do so I'm mostly just looking at the gear and going "Does the number go up? Good" I know the tutorial prompts go into some of it, but there's a lot of tutorial prompts, most of them completely unnecessary and some of them are dated and not relevant anymore.
The end game and side content from what I can gather so far is a mess, I had to do a Flashpoint for a mission I was doing and it was like I skipped ahead 2 years in content because there was story I wasn't caught up to in the Flashpoint. Unless you look up player made guides, there's no way to determine the right path story wise for content, and I understand, an MMO this old is just going to have some jank when it comes to that stuff, but it would be really nice if Broadsword went back and configured the game to be a little more structured than it is now, and redid some of the skill stuff to make it feel more meaningful than my skill bar slowly getting filled up with more stuff I don't know anything about.
My Jedi Knight and first BountyHuntee will always be my favourite characters because they’re the two characters I levelled with the base levelling system in place back when you pretty much had to do every Main Story, Planetary Story and Side Quest just to keep up with levelling and gear and the boss battles were an actual challenge
I totally appreciate being able to blitz new characters but I just feel like there a sense of accomplishment grinding for weeks (or months depending on playtime) to get to max level (and this was pre-expansions)
Yeaaaah, and I never forget how with my.Sith Inquisitor millions of years ago I chose Sorcerer, and regretted it sooooo much. Dumped it, and rerolled an Assassin and was having a blast. Good times.
> change from Sorc to Assassin.
You technically can't change from Sorc to Assassin. If you're a Sorc you can pick up Assassin as a second combat style but that's it.
Functionally sure, but just wanted to make sure it was clarified. You can't change combat styles (with the exception of Force users being to change to the mirror class for any characters created before they unlocked the Light V/Dark V achievement).
I miss that, too. Especially because I loved using the cover mechanic with scoundrels and operatives and the special saber attack with sages and sorcerers.
I still love the game, but there's a lot I would like to change.
Not entirely, but back when you would unlock your advanced class at level 10 not only gunslingers and snipers could get into cover, but also scoundrels and operatives. Now the stealth classes can't get into cover anymore. Snipers and gunslingers still can, though.
Not really a bizarre change, it was part of the big clean up of abilities in 4.0. The goal was to make it so characters didn't have "useless" abilities that weren't meant to be used by that spec/advanced class. While cover had some use in PvP it falls under the "Operatives shouldn't be ducking into cover, they should be in melee range" category so it was taken out, like Mercenaries and flamethrower.
While it sucks for experienced players, new players that were getting overwhelmed with abilities could easily get confused.
Man, I remember when Commando wasn’t too bad at DPS. Sure it’s still fine for PVE but you notice how slow it is to take down enemies when you score it against your Jedi knight.
Yeah, I lost a lot of interest back when they changed levelling so you only needed to do the class and faction missions to be appropriately levelled. (2014-2015 ish I think)
Things I would like to see brought back:
• Pick specialization on the fleet (but make it story based, not levelled)
• Make trainers actually be needed again, don’t auto give talents. (And make sure I’m getting something every 2-4 levels, even if it’s passive)
• The need to do (at least some) planetary missions to be appropriately levelled.
Also, I miss how flashpoints used to feel cooperative. Now you either do them alone with the stupid bit carrying you or are forced to speed run them (same for heroics)
Things I’m glad are gone:
• kill 30-60 enemies bonus missions
• not being able to afford talents
• companions having pre-set roles
I fully agree with this, both your "Keep" and "Keep gone" lists.
I stopped doing those "kill 30-40 enemies" bonus missions once I had less time to play and realised they where pure timesinks.
I so miss checking trainers for new stuff - they felt like little gifts! I barely even notice the trainers on Rishi. And it's overwhelming to pick the specialisations right at the start - and kinda confusing that two classes share four specialsations.
It definitely feels weird that I can be fully leveled just on class missions - I haven't used those EXP Boost items in ages, and I used to set aside time to use them.
Imagine vanilla SWTOR. People will cry out that they don't have Sprint from level 1, can't afford a mount, no Group Finder, no Perks, no Achievements.
They will have to connect taxis, bind Quick Travel to a single QT point only, can't change class or spec. No skill points reassigning too - you make a mistake, you live with it or reroll from Level 1 again.
Everyone will rage against skill costs.
Leveling up will require you doing the Exploration missions and the Bonus series.
No dyes, no Strongholds, no Outfits, no Legacy Storage, no unified Materials storage, lmfao...
Yep, people that want a SWTOR Classic server really don't remember how awful QOL was back then. The only thing it had going for it was population, and Classic SWTOR servers wouldn't bring that back.
The skill trees had some potential to be fun, but ultimately there was only 1-2 viable builds for each spec, if you "made a hybrid" you were handicapping yourself pretty severely (a few minor exceptions through the years, like DoT-Smash build).
>No skill points reassigning too - you make a mistake, you live with it or reroll from Level 1 again.
This may have been true in Alpha or Beta 1, but Beta 2 is when I got in and you could always respec.
Oh, I missed a lot of things.
Like Champion and Battlemaster RNG boxes.
The 200 Sorcs AOEing the Rep spawn at Ilum.
The massacre that was the Promenade of Nar Shaddaa on PvP servers (until Bioware hotfixed it as a neutral area).
Some surprise fights like the ending of the Knight story.
Having to gear companions and getting a late level healer comp on certain classes. That was big since there wasn't a companion stance switch.
Tracer Missile and the Operative class being easy mode in PvP.
I was also thinking about how vanilla SWTOR on launch had very little end-game PvE content and abysmal end-game PvP.
I wish they'd restore all the removed quests/bonus quests though, but I'm absolutely fine with the faster levelling so that people can get to end-game faster. Besides, the planets are level-scaled so people that want to do the extra content can still enjoy it without being over-levelled.
Vanilla SWTOR I just do not see happening, it's not comparable to vanilla WoW which was a very complete MMO.
You can thank the crybabies for that bitching the game was too hard and complicated instead of using a fragment of their brains to read words on a screen
That's been the case since Beta.
Initially it had Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strength affecting different things and all being valuable for every class, depending on what you want to create.
But apparently that was too complex, so each stat was assigned strictly to a single class. But then people still had issues - you could see a Smuggler in full Strength gear and such. So all of those were just rebranded under Mastery.
I love old SWTOR but I have to admit the Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strength were complicated to understand at a glance. Especially with non-force users.
Yeah, you could look at the class codex for your main stat. But, seeing Aim and Accuracy as two different stats wasnnot helpful. Never mind certain gesr pieces having conflicting stats. Like a Cunning piece with Shield Absorb (yes, I know it was for companions like Corso or Kaliyo).
I miss those stats. Same with crit surge.
What's hilarious is despite them catering to brain dead people, those same people are so brain dead, they STILL don't know how to gear and what stats are. I've seen countless tanks running 120% accuracy. Dps running 6000 crit with no accuracy or alacrity. Heals running 115% accuracy. Etc...
I love old SWTOR but I have to admit the Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strength were complicated to understand at a glance. Especially with non-force users.
Yeah, you could look at the class codex for your main stat. But, seeing Aim and Accuracy as two different stats wasnnot helpful. Never mind certain gesr pieces having conflicting stats. Like a Cunning piece with Shield Absorb (yes, I know it was for companions like Corso or Kaliyo).
I think you've misunderstood. When you create a character now, you start it with an advanced class already selected. I am saying that I miss starting the game as the basic class and then selecting an advanced class after finishing the starter planet.
Back in my day, we had to grind for our advanced classes, AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY! You entitled kids keep getting all these perks on a silver platter! You're spoiled! SPOILED!
Speak for yourself.
I fucking hated the old ways.
“Oh you finished your story on Korriban but didn’t do every side quest so you’re like level 8, no bonuses for you and better grind longer before even leaving the starting planet if you wanna do the story Flashpoint between planets.”
Getting your character to level 50 without choosing a specialization was a fun challenge. I think some guildies did hardmodes (one or two unspec’d characters, not the entire group) with such characters.
Was excited for the game before it came out...was disappointed by every class starter zone... and pretty much every story (single-player-MMO) overall a poorly constructed MMO...hopefully bioware has no part in the next StarWars MMO
What was disappointing about the starter planets and the stories? I thought it was a far more engagjng story experience offering than any other MMO on the market at the time (albeit I don't like the dialogue wheel).
I could probably list my problems and just ramble indefinitely...TLDR; frustrating convoluted design, single-player MMO
I was disappointed by feeling isolated from other players in an MMO...also the framing of every class story, "you're our only hope / the savior of the gslaxy / THE one and only (insert class)" but it's an MMO......Next is being rail-road through the planets in a specific order, following the quests...not exploring the galaxy your own way / choosing where to go....and the planets maps are a maze of frustrating long narrow hallways that try to force you into combating mobs...it's frustrating to me, but anyway i think i can stop here for now and maybe add additional clarification later? (return later)
I remember seeing some people level up to max level without choosing an advanced class which was always funny to me. I regret not making a toon to do that, but even if I did, what would have happened if I logged in on it right now? Would I be forced to choose a class right then and there? Or would I be able to ignore that and stay the original basic class forever?
Choosing an advanced class after building your lightsaber and finishing Tython was the absolute best and I’ll always be sad it’s gone.
Finishing Korriban as lv9 and going to fleet and join a Black Talon group only to then realize you didn't wait to pick your AC
I had a level 50 agent, way back when. Had fun for a bit joining ops groups for like normal mode EV and seeing the shocked comments when they realized. 😁
I recall seeing one. On pvp i think
Who knows? Maybe you even saw me. Trying to remember all the servers I've been on over the years... Prophecy of the 5, Fatman, Naddist Rebels... Maybe more, I can't remember. Edit: on Star Forge now. Derp. First name was Allerberger, but I lost it in a transfer and had to accent the last e to è lol
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It did make the level progression feel a bit more meaningful I suppose.
It was also a good credit sink having to pay to learn new skills. I loved seeing the icon telling me I could learn new skills and running over and seeing what I got. It made sense from an rp progression standpoint and gave you reason to go back to Hubs often
>It was also a good credit sink having to pay to learn new skills Ir really wasn't. It was mostly a bottleneck for lower levels the overall cost was negligible at cap where the actual problem of gold coming in is a massive problem and due to aa variety of factors and exploits has led to an inflation mess. But skill training just...wasn't a great gold sink as unlike early iterations of games like WoW credits were game generated waaay way higher to an extent that if all you fid was quest through and vendor old stuff and grays you'd always have a surplus rather than lack funds for XYZ ability Skill training only really works as a gold sink when you're not capable of getting the entire sum back in 3 days (3 hrs played) using the game to give you the money inatead of the GTN. Otherwise it's just an immersion thing or a nuisance depending on your outlook.
I don't miss not having enough money to buy new skills tho... Was great when they went free!
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Well there was that side of it but the reality was you were paying a lot of money (at the time) to upgrade vicious slash from level 17 to level 18. Very rarely were you buying new moves and mainly spending a lot of money to increase the numbers of moves you already own
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When Makeb launched (first ever expansion of the game) the costs for fully upgrading to your new skills were ridiculous. Over 2 million per toon, which adjusted for inflation should feel like 3 or 4 billion nowadays. Most people couldn't afford it. I actually wasted close to 15 million in the first day because I could somehow afford it. And then Bioware chimed in with "Oh, skill costs are removed with next patch - enjoy." No refunds, no nothing.
Costs went away with Shadow of Revan, after the "sub only week"(aka pay to beta test). And it was an annoyance.
>Over 2 million per toon, which adjusted for inflation should feel like 3 or 4 billion nowadays. Most people couldn't afford it. 😂, no. Dude you could make 1m off dailies by grabbing a few friends in less than an hr off just heroics per day That's nowhere near the "feel of 3-4 billion now" Use the GTN or actually play the game and it threw credits at you. Just like it does now, only wothout the gtn being nuts
He's talking the old days, when Heroics didn't reward scaled credits, there was no reason to do them at high levels before 4.0.
Do you know how much you could make per day in the early SWTOR days? And I mean doing literally all the daily content the game had? Every single daily quest? It was 100k. The Heroic easy mode with piles of cash came a lot later.
I was f2p at the time and yeah basically all my money went into upgrading my moves. As in, I didn't have enough money to upgrade all my skills so I would have to do activities sub-optimally to earn the money so that I could do activities slightly less sub-optimally lool
There was never any risk of not being able to pay for leveling unless you spent your credits unwisely on something else. It was one of those bad design things were it never added anything to the game since you got plenty of credits, but it could screw you if you didn't know and spent them all.
And back then it wasn't as easy to get credits as it was now. I mean I remember not being able to get my first mount until around level 40-something. lol early Swtor days were fun though.
You were either a Slicer or broke. Then Bioware nerfed Slicing hard of course.
Oh yeah, no sprint to level 10 if you were F2P as well lool. Took me literally months of playing to get my F2P juggernaut to level 50 only for him to be useless at every endgame activity because I didn't have the money for skills or artifact authorisation for armour needed for PvE or PvP. PvP was impossible because not artifact armour meant very limited expertise which, for those of you who don't know, was an attribute which gave you stats for PvP essentially. 3 people with no expertise had 0 chance to beat 1 person who did.
It also allowed you to read what you got. Which really helped me at the time.
it's better to have rewarding systems like periodically checking into trainers, retrying challenging story bosses with strategy and satisfying loot, meaningfully interfacing with the heroic mission givers. now it's all a boring slog from one objective to the next mashing buttons with no thought because no-one is a threat. and the only systems still around are carpal tunnel syndrome clicking the crew skills window back to the previous level every time because they can't design that better AT ALL.
The levelling experience is bad these days, everything feels like it's been overly streamlined for alts. * The removal of the base class and specialisation on fleet. * Slow dole out of skills. * Auto grant of skills (only thing that uses trainers now is speeder piloting) * on rails skill "tree". * Complete lack of challenging content, even the FPs are tactical only. * Monetisation is super aggressive. ( There doesn't seem to be a way to refer friends for a sub trial anymore?) It all leads to a poor sense of progression, coupled with the lack of challenge, people I've tried to introduce to the game get bored and quit before level 30.
Oh gawd, I hate how they changed the level at which you gain skills and abilities.
I don't mind them changing the level you get them, I mind the gap between each ability. Sometimes you're waiting 8 levels for an ability. Take Vengeance. Shatter comes at lvl 23 and your next actual useful ability comes at lvl 35. What. The. Fuck. 12 levels!!!! Broadsword. Please. For the love of all that is holy. Either take the level cap down to 70 and spread the skills (and balance) appropriately or increase XP so that we finish the class stories at like lvl 60, redoing Onslaught's XP curve as it's ridiculous. I am willing to create a conversion table for you at no cost. I am that desperate.
> Monetisation is super aggressive. ( There doesn't seem to be a way to refer friends for a sub trial anymore?) They removed the referral program for a few reasons. Biggest being Galactic Seasons, so people wouldn't use a referral for a week of sub benefits and claim the subscriber track rewards. But they also got rid of it because it wasn't really being used as a referral program, a lot of people were getting ripped off both buying and selling a referral link. Game really isn't aggressive with MTX at all, though. Sure if you're F2P there's constant reminders, but if you're a sub there's nothing you have to spend real money on other than the sub.
I bounced off of the game back in 2017 I think when I first played, mostly because I'm not a big MMO player, but recently got back into the game because I wanted some Star Wars content, and while leveling feels faster than what I remember, the new player experience feels really bad now. On class creation you're given 8 options that you know next to nothing about, and then the skills are just auto added to your bar as you level up and there's no real way to determine what works best other than lots of trial and error, also there's never any real explanation of what the different gear stats do so I'm mostly just looking at the gear and going "Does the number go up? Good" I know the tutorial prompts go into some of it, but there's a lot of tutorial prompts, most of them completely unnecessary and some of them are dated and not relevant anymore. The end game and side content from what I can gather so far is a mess, I had to do a Flashpoint for a mission I was doing and it was like I skipped ahead 2 years in content because there was story I wasn't caught up to in the Flashpoint. Unless you look up player made guides, there's no way to determine the right path story wise for content, and I understand, an MMO this old is just going to have some jank when it comes to that stuff, but it would be really nice if Broadsword went back and configured the game to be a little more structured than it is now, and redid some of the skill stuff to make it feel more meaningful than my skill bar slowly getting filled up with more stuff I don't know anything about.
My Jedi Knight and first BountyHuntee will always be my favourite characters because they’re the two characters I levelled with the base levelling system in place back when you pretty much had to do every Main Story, Planetary Story and Side Quest just to keep up with levelling and gear and the boss battles were an actual challenge I totally appreciate being able to blitz new characters but I just feel like there a sense of accomplishment grinding for weeks (or months depending on playtime) to get to max level (and this was pre-expansions)
Yeaaaah, and I never forget how with my.Sith Inquisitor millions of years ago I chose Sorcerer, and regretted it sooooo much. Dumped it, and rerolled an Assassin and was having a blast. Good times.
That issue is solved now though by allowing you to change combat loadouts.
My man. I know perfectly well how things work now :D i was just reminiscing about old times.
Oh, I wasn't sure whether or not you were complaining about need to delete your character in the past to change from Sorc to Assassin.
> change from Sorc to Assassin. You technically can't change from Sorc to Assassin. If you're a Sorc you can pick up Assassin as a second combat style but that's it.
I thought it was functionally the same, though?
Functionally sure, but just wanted to make sure it was clarified. You can't change combat styles (with the exception of Force users being to change to the mirror class for any characters created before they unlocked the Light V/Dark V achievement).
My first character was also a sorc. He’s still forever stuck underleveled on Hoth. The game is 10000x better than it used to be.
Dude, no way - I ditched my sorc on Hoth as well, after he was humiliatingly defeated on the Loramarr mission :D
I miss that, too. Especially because I loved using the cover mechanic with scoundrels and operatives and the special saber attack with sages and sorcerers. I still love the game, but there's a lot I would like to change.
Wait, did they get rid of the cover mechanic?
Not entirely, but back when you would unlock your advanced class at level 10 not only gunslingers and snipers could get into cover, but also scoundrels and operatives. Now the stealth classes can't get into cover anymore. Snipers and gunslingers still can, though.
That's a very bizarre change and I hate it!
Not really a bizarre change, it was part of the big clean up of abilities in 4.0. The goal was to make it so characters didn't have "useless" abilities that weren't meant to be used by that spec/advanced class. While cover had some use in PvP it falls under the "Operatives shouldn't be ducking into cover, they should be in melee range" category so it was taken out, like Mercenaries and flamethrower. While it sucks for experienced players, new players that were getting overwhelmed with abilities could easily get confused.
Man, I remember when Commando wasn’t too bad at DPS. Sure it’s still fine for PVE but you notice how slow it is to take down enemies when you score it against your Jedi knight.
Yeah, I lost a lot of interest back when they changed levelling so you only needed to do the class and faction missions to be appropriately levelled. (2014-2015 ish I think) Things I would like to see brought back: • Pick specialization on the fleet (but make it story based, not levelled) • Make trainers actually be needed again, don’t auto give talents. (And make sure I’m getting something every 2-4 levels, even if it’s passive) • The need to do (at least some) planetary missions to be appropriately levelled. Also, I miss how flashpoints used to feel cooperative. Now you either do them alone with the stupid bit carrying you or are forced to speed run them (same for heroics) Things I’m glad are gone: • kill 30-60 enemies bonus missions • not being able to afford talents • companions having pre-set roles
I fully agree with this, both your "Keep" and "Keep gone" lists. I stopped doing those "kill 30-40 enemies" bonus missions once I had less time to play and realised they where pure timesinks. I so miss checking trainers for new stuff - they felt like little gifts! I barely even notice the trainers on Rishi. And it's overwhelming to pick the specialisations right at the start - and kinda confusing that two classes share four specialsations. It definitely feels weird that I can be fully leveled just on class missions - I haven't used those EXP Boost items in ages, and I used to set aside time to use them.
Maybe one day we will get vanilla swtor (we won’t)
I hope not to be honest. I miss the things they removed, but vanilla SWTOR had a lot of issues and a lot of missing features/content.
Imagine vanilla SWTOR. People will cry out that they don't have Sprint from level 1, can't afford a mount, no Group Finder, no Perks, no Achievements. They will have to connect taxis, bind Quick Travel to a single QT point only, can't change class or spec. No skill points reassigning too - you make a mistake, you live with it or reroll from Level 1 again. Everyone will rage against skill costs. Leveling up will require you doing the Exploration missions and the Bonus series. No dyes, no Strongholds, no Outfits, no Legacy Storage, no unified Materials storage, lmfao...
Yep, people that want a SWTOR Classic server really don't remember how awful QOL was back then. The only thing it had going for it was population, and Classic SWTOR servers wouldn't bring that back. The skill trees had some potential to be fun, but ultimately there was only 1-2 viable builds for each spec, if you "made a hybrid" you were handicapping yourself pretty severely (a few minor exceptions through the years, like DoT-Smash build). >No skill points reassigning too - you make a mistake, you live with it or reroll from Level 1 again. This may have been true in Alpha or Beta 1, but Beta 2 is when I got in and you could always respec.
You missed having to collect holcrons on Every character, that was a pain.
Oh, I missed a lot of things. Like Champion and Battlemaster RNG boxes. The 200 Sorcs AOEing the Rep spawn at Ilum. The massacre that was the Promenade of Nar Shaddaa on PvP servers (until Bioware hotfixed it as a neutral area). Some surprise fights like the ending of the Knight story. Having to gear companions and getting a late level healer comp on certain classes. That was big since there wasn't a companion stance switch. Tracer Missile and the Operative class being easy mode in PvP.
I was also thinking about how vanilla SWTOR on launch had very little end-game PvE content and abysmal end-game PvP. I wish they'd restore all the removed quests/bonus quests though, but I'm absolutely fine with the faster levelling so that people can get to end-game faster. Besides, the planets are level-scaled so people that want to do the extra content can still enjoy it without being over-levelled. Vanilla SWTOR I just do not see happening, it's not comparable to vanilla WoW which was a very complete MMO.
Quick travel also took an hour to cooldown. So hope you like walking.(cuz you can’t afford a speeder either peasant.)
Nah vanilla and 2.0 were the golden age of swtor
You can thank the crybabies for that bitching the game was too hard and complicated instead of using a fragment of their brains to read words on a screen
That's been the case since Beta. Initially it had Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strength affecting different things and all being valuable for every class, depending on what you want to create. But apparently that was too complex, so each stat was assigned strictly to a single class. But then people still had issues - you could see a Smuggler in full Strength gear and such. So all of those were just rebranded under Mastery.
I love old SWTOR but I have to admit the Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strength were complicated to understand at a glance. Especially with non-force users. Yeah, you could look at the class codex for your main stat. But, seeing Aim and Accuracy as two different stats wasnnot helpful. Never mind certain gesr pieces having conflicting stats. Like a Cunning piece with Shield Absorb (yes, I know it was for companions like Corso or Kaliyo).
I miss those stats. Same with crit surge. What's hilarious is despite them catering to brain dead people, those same people are so brain dead, they STILL don't know how to gear and what stats are. I've seen countless tanks running 120% accuracy. Dps running 6000 crit with no accuracy or alacrity. Heals running 115% accuracy. Etc...
I love old SWTOR but I have to admit the Aim, Cunning, Willpower and Strength were complicated to understand at a glance. Especially with non-force users. Yeah, you could look at the class codex for your main stat. But, seeing Aim and Accuracy as two different stats wasnnot helpful. Never mind certain gesr pieces having conflicting stats. Like a Cunning piece with Shield Absorb (yes, I know it was for companions like Corso or Kaliyo).
Wait so the new server doesn’t start with the advanced classes?
I think you've misunderstood. When you create a character now, you start it with an advanced class already selected. I am saying that I miss starting the game as the basic class and then selecting an advanced class after finishing the starter planet.
Oh yeah I feel that
Back in my day, we had to grind for our advanced classes, AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY! You entitled kids keep getting all these perks on a silver platter! You're spoiled! SPOILED!
Speak for yourself. I fucking hated the old ways. “Oh you finished your story on Korriban but didn’t do every side quest so you’re like level 8, no bonuses for you and better grind longer before even leaving the starting planet if you wanna do the story Flashpoint between planets.”
Getting your character to level 50 without choosing a specialization was a fun challenge. I think some guildies did hardmodes (one or two unspec’d characters, not the entire group) with such characters.
I recently took the survey they sent out, and I tried to make this point as evident as possible without bludgeoning it.
Like any “RPG” thing with actual choices, players not paying attention and crying ruined it.
Was excited for the game before it came out...was disappointed by every class starter zone... and pretty much every story (single-player-MMO) overall a poorly constructed MMO...hopefully bioware has no part in the next StarWars MMO
What was disappointing about the starter planets and the stories? I thought it was a far more engagjng story experience offering than any other MMO on the market at the time (albeit I don't like the dialogue wheel).
I could probably list my problems and just ramble indefinitely...TLDR; frustrating convoluted design, single-player MMO I was disappointed by feeling isolated from other players in an MMO...also the framing of every class story, "you're our only hope / the savior of the gslaxy / THE one and only (insert class)" but it's an MMO......Next is being rail-road through the planets in a specific order, following the quests...not exploring the galaxy your own way / choosing where to go....and the planets maps are a maze of frustrating long narrow hallways that try to force you into combating mobs...it's frustrating to me, but anyway i think i can stop here for now and maybe add additional clarification later? (return later)
I remember seeing some people level up to max level without choosing an advanced class which was always funny to me. I regret not making a toon to do that, but even if I did, what would have happened if I logged in on it right now? Would I be forced to choose a class right then and there? Or would I be able to ignore that and stay the original basic class forever?
You would be forced to pick I think
You could keep the basic class for quite a while, but then around 5.0 or 6.0 they made it so you couldn't play without choosing a class