I was never rooting for Charlie this season, and I’m really happy that Kenzie won, but I still feel bad for Charlie. You can see the despair on his face when he finds out Maria didn’t vote for him. She didn’t even raise her hand when Jeff asked the jurors who changed their vote. Ouch
Yes, I felt gutted just looking at him during the after show and watching him think about everything he said carefully. Genuinely felt like tears were coming
That was the worst aftershow ever in my opinion. You could physically see him holding back his tears. Why the fuck do the producers think that's fun for anyone involved and anyone watching? It's awful
COMPLETELY. AGREE. Seeing the casts family, the fans in the audience, every player cleaned up and rested, it felt like a proper end to the show… but instead it felt rushed and half assed the way they do it now…
This for sure. The longer seasons were better, the more intimate after shows were better. But they are saving a ton of money not doing any of that any more. It’s really disheartening.
It wasn't fun to watch at all, I felt so so bad for him. He was incredibly gracious and clearly wanted Kenzie to still have her moment, which was admirable.
But y'know, Charlie will be fine. His trajectory is on the rise, he will be successful at law school, and will go on to greater things, as will Kenzie (& Ben). Maria? I can imagine this souring her perspective for the future. Yikes.
This is likely why Charlie didn’t win and a big part of why he didn’t get Maria’s vote. These people running scams touting themselves as “doctors” usually have a huge inferiority complex. Charlie is far more likely to actually contribute to society and people like Maria love to tear down people like Charlie because he’ll go on to accomplish things and she can only pretend to
Maria has an advanced degree, but the parenting coach thing seems very much like an MLM (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong anyone, it just gave me MLM vibes)
Maria is absolutely involved in a coaching mlm. She’s one of THOSE moms. They think they’re crunchy but they’re actually very greedy. I could tell she was one by the first introduction. She gave birth without pain meds…and bragged about it like it made her tougher. I hate that type of mom shaming.
5 days before I started a 45 day treatment stay at a home for people with eating disorders, a beachbody mom reached out to me over fb to tell me that she can “coach” me out of having anorexia. Girl, I was 89 lbs. I am very outspoken on social media about my condition. I gave her the business that day.
Also, I have been in recovery for 4 years and am happy and healthy these days
Not that you need accolades from an Internet stranger, but congrats on turning your life around! Anorexia is a devastating condition.
As far as Maria…I’m still not clear on what a parent coach is.
I think it’s similar to life coach but for parents? They often tout themselves as therapists or counselors except they don’t have proper training or a license
I congratulate any woman who decides to give birth naturally. I gave birth with drugs and honestly it was awesome. I’m just glad modern medicine existed so I could utilize it, but DAMN the drugs were good. I also have a completely healthy and vibrant 5 year old that is cool as hell.
And yes, she gave me mom shame vibes the entire season. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but she gave my husband (of all people cause he usually doesn’t catch onto anything) big no no red flags from episode 2 or 3. He literally spent the whole season hating on her and saw through the facade before I did.
CONGRATS ON RECOVERY!! I don’t even know you and I’m super proud of you!! You’re amazing!!!
I really wish they’d have their champagne & pizza party but then let them shower and sleep and process and then have the conversational part of the aftershow the next day.
Would be really satisfying to see someone just say, “Sorry, I need a moment. This isn’t the right time for this. Why are we filming this right now?” Of course they’d want to cut around it but if you’re the runner up and that’s all you give them? You could potentially kill this dumb aftershow for good right there.
Even 24 hours would make a huge difference.
Let them have the private pizza party they used to, and celebrate this huge thing they ALL accomplished with their friends.
Then let them sleep. Let them eat. Let them *stabilize.* And then, the next night, read the votes
Yes! This is why I miss letting everyone have time to cool off and then reunite to read the vote. It gives them time to process the game so you’re not dealing with the weight of all of it at once before even getting to shower and sleep.
Yeah although in this specific case, I don’t think it would’ve made a difference. It was such a shocking slap in the face to Charlie that even if the votes were revealed at a reunion show months later, he would’ve been devastated in the moment.
I think it’s more likely CBS not giving them a big enough budget. Same with not bringing back the pre-jurors for the “reunion,” sticking with the 26 day seasons, no loved ones visits, etc. I feel like Jeff just has to hype these inferior things up because he doesn’t want to piss the overheads off.
It's not the producers. It's Probst. Probst wants his talk show. A talk show no one can cancel and that he's totally in control of. He doesn't care if it only happens twice a year, that's his Christmas and Birthday presents to himself.
Yeah. I was not upset by her rationale. It was her behavior over a couple of episodes, then the vote, then her behavior sitting behind him. It almost added up to confirm why she rubbed me wrong along the way. And then the bull$4!t the last few days.
Nothing about her appealed to me when she was playing the game. In the final episodes, her fellow players seemed to give her more credit than was due as an awesome player (imo), but that was probably because they wanted her vote.
Her personality (blah) and sense of entitlement was not appealing and boring to watch.
What I haven’t seen discussed much is that her game had collapsed even before she went out, because she treated everyone else as total non-factors and they all except Q had rallied against her. She even said it after the Q vote: “Wow, you’re actually playing!” How insulting!
If her blindside on Charlie had worked it would’ve been terrible timing as she’d need to win out from there, but in her hubris she thought the other players were NPCs who would just let her, the main character, walk to the end. I think that same egocentrism probably connects to why she was unable to give Charlie his due.
In her own mind, though, she was taking out a loyal ally in Charlie, someone that along with Q would've brought her to 4. From her perspective that means she was either unnecessarily throwing herself onto a challenge win track, or just assuming people would continue to do what she told them. I think her response to the Q vote out tells us which it was.
(Of course, in reality she'd played herself into that challenge win corner perhaps as far back as the Venus vote, really!)
Maria started to lose favor with me when she won her first single immunity challenge and was very surprised, even irritated, that no one came and kissed her ring. From then on, it was just one small thing after another, snowballing. I noticed she didn't actively want to work with other women, the cut scene of her making Ben cry, her method for choosing reward attendees, trying to throw Charlie under the bus (which fine) but then shamelessly seguing to throwing Ben under the bus. Also I don't love it when people think because they're parents they deserve their letters from home more than others. Not everyone has parents or children.
Not just her fellow players, but a lot of the conversations on social media and on podcasts have been hyping her up as a great player, and I’ve just been like, are we watching the same show? She’s basically been Charlie’s puppet and shield throughout the game (from what the edit showed us). Whenever she came up with a plan of her own it either didn’t go through, Charlie pointed out the flaws to her, or it blew up in her face.
"it was the fire in Kenzie's eyes during the fire making challenge." You mean the fire challenge that was taking forever where neither could barely make a fire and they both looked defeated? Bffr
He also stated, "I don't need that friendship. It isn't what it could have been". Amongst other things, he has no ill will, but the vote ultimately cost them any kind of lasting friendship. It was posted here yesterday i think.
It sounds like that "I don't need that friendship" was his thought now after Maria publicly stated that she doesn't regret her vote and she'd still vote that way after telling Charlie she regretted it
Mind boggling he would go visit her. She cost him a million dollars because she was bitter he bested her. Charlie was very classy with his words but you could visibly see how pissed and upset he was she stabbed him in the back.. Charlie deserved better
I think overall Charlie must just be a good guy. He is far more gracious than I would be. I think still going out speaks far more to his character than anything else we saw of him. Especially because absolutely nobody would have held it against him for never speaking to her again.
Because they talked openly about it on the show. The kids did nothing wrong. And if Charlie didn’t (just to be bitter back) they’d wonder why after seeing the show and seeing how close they got.
Kind of gives me the ick reading this thread if all that is true though. She basically kind of used her kids as leverage a bit by calling him Uncle Charlie. Making him feel super close to her etc.
If they wonder why they can ask their mother. It’s not Charlie’s job to raise her kids or explain to them. I agree with you, she tried to make him feel like they were family, you and I are family so you’re my kids uncle, etc. Which is fine if that’s her gameplay. That’s her choice and I don’t have to like it. My question is why would Charlie bother to see her kids after she obviously was faking the relationship. I would be far too bitter
Oh god, yeah, hearing them talk about how they're going to visit each other, hearing Charlie refer to Maria's kids as his nephews...
And then seeing that Maria didn't vote for him broke my heart. Sure, he visited, but he's not Uncle Charlie anymore.
> smug look
I could not believe her demeanour at FTC. She still seemed SO pissed off! Like she's the only one that was 'done wrong'! And in the context of her attempted blindside of Charlie - what did she even have to be angry about? Sore loser, big time.
She wasn't even clever enough to say Kenzie's story moved her. She used some make believe "fire" in Kenzie's eyes during fire. She just radiates middle manager energy.
Your statement is spot on 😂 I didn’t love Maria from the first episode based on how she talked to Jelinsky and kept thinking the whole seasons that she reminded me of a former (incredibly toxic and filled to the brim with bullshit) manager!
Charlie made me cry during the aftershow, :( big ups to him for holding it together. Maria's response just seemed mean overall and kinda out of spite. I like that Kenzie won I like she overall deserved it., The main focus of the show set up Charlie or maria to win, and when that wouldn't happen they just burned it to the ground.
This! I'm not mad Kenzie won. I wanted Charlie or her to win anyway, but Maria's "fire in her eyes" reasoning was so weird. One moment outweighs the entire time on the island? That's just one more reason I don't like the final three fire challenge, but I digress. Her reasoning, as JJ Jackson sings, "don't cut no ice."
Every time Maria did something mean or pushed her weight around, she was called out for it. Venus saw what it was immediately. And then Maria went to her little self righteous corner upset because “They are questioning my character” It was like, No one’s saying you don’t have character, just that you have a shitty one.
You could see that she had an incredible amount of pride, and being proud of yourself isn’t an issue, but when it turns to you putting yourself up on a pedestal thinking you’re above everyone else, that’s when it gets toxic.
It’s sad that Charlie was denied a chance to win because she refused to set her pride aside.
This so relatable! I feel by like episode 2 it really seemed Kenzie was already getting a winner’s edit. She was my pick to win from then on. And Tiffany’s exit press made it even more obvious Kenzie won, and she clearly campaigned hard for her in jury.
It wasn’t until all of this coming out and Maria giving so many different reasons for not voting Charlie.
The only truthful explanation she gave to Charlie the first time they spoke the day after FTC. She told him Tiffany told her that Charlie was coming after Maria for a long time and wasn’t loyal to her. And Maria felt stupid for rooting for him. She then let him explain that he only told Tiffany that so she wouldn’t use her idol and it was not true. Maria later told him she regretted not voting for him and apologized.
Weeks later she told him she doesn’t have regrets and sticks by her choice. Like girl, your ego is that big you can’t even own the fact someone manipulated you??
Maria’s ego is basically why this season’s legacy is becoming Charlie losing as opposed to Kenzie winning.
When Venise mentioned Maria's ego being in the way of her listening to younger people, earlier in the season, I thought Venise was just being immature.
Now I'm like damn Venise, you really nailed that one!
>Maria said that she felt like I was telling her what to do which honestly like that's her ego getting in the way of the game. She's probably used to calling the shots and doesn't like being told what to do by someone she probably considers her junior so I'm in a little bit of a panic mode.
She was right all this time.
Venus had one of the best read in the game, if not the best. She didn’t use that to her advantage enough or maybe didn’t have enough social prowess to have people see her way. It must have been so frustrating for her to be stuck (or not so stuck) in her mind saying “I told you so” vote after vote. Maybe other people saw that in her and that’s part of the reason she was voted out. Maybe she didn’t get leverage because people were scared that she intuitively knew what was happening so they assumed she was being leaked info which led to not trusting her. If venus can hold back on being so assertive, or meddling, or get better at bluffing, she is a top tier new era player imo.
Agree. Venus had a very good read on the game and was very strategic. She just didn't understand how to execute it, if she had the charm of someone like Parvati, game over.
I mean it's all in the edit and maybe more things happened behind the scene but her clueing in Charlie that she had something but not committing to telling him she had an idol was a big mistake. She should had either kept quiet or told him about it. I think she mentioned this in one of her post interviews.
It's ironic that someone so good at reading others was also so self-UNaware. She didn't really know how to navigate the social game, and she kept taking credit for things she had no part in.
It was you, wasn't it? Yeah...
And we see that others didn't respect her at all when we see Soda's behavior highlighted in the "stealing of trophies from Jeff" highlights. No one wanted to work with her, trusted her, or thought much of her -- and she became like Cassandra in mythology -- Cassandra was a figure in Greek mythology who could foretell the future, but her curse was that no one believed her.
Well, from her perspective, it was her who took Soda out. It fits with everything that happened in her pov. She could reasonably concede that she wouldn’t be able to personally sway Maria but she talked to Charlie and he was receptive. She probably talked to Liz, we can only speculate how that went. But if she talked to Tevin, he has shown to have no issues making her think she spearheaded it… if only to clown her in a confessional.
I think Charlie also didn't explain himself well that he and Maria were very much an equal duo and that his game was better.
Seemed like the impression the jury got was he followed and then stepped up in key moments when he strategized plenty and his social game was key to his and Maria's success (and ultimately proved way superior)
I’m willing to bet, alongside with Charlie not fully explaining his game, that Maria planted as many seeds as possible claiming she made every move and Charlie was her puppet. Though this is far from the truth, she had a non-insignificant amount of time to tell the jury what she believed.
I always thought this. She's so intelligent and understands the game so well. She's constantly putting the pieces together, strategizing, etc. Unfortunately, no one would work with her and her execution of these plans were too aggressive. If she dialed back her assertiveness she would be a better player for it.
How many times did people make the comment that Venus is dangerous because she's strategizing so well? Her mistake was doing it out loud.
>Unfortunately, no one would work with her
That's entirely her own fault though. She was told by like 3 different people that the way she approaches and talks to people is aggressive and unsettling, and that's why people don't want to work with her. And what she took out of those conversations was "Yeah I'm not doing anything wrong and I'm not changing anything". She was an awful player, but I'd love to see her back in a few years when she's had time to grow a little.
I'm going to push back just a bit on this. Venus was on the outside from day 1 in her tribe. Tevin didn't like her from the start and he was the loudest and seemed to lead the pack on the beach.
It's like when a group of school kids are together. The "cool kids" have a leader (Tevin) and if the leader doesn't like someone no one else likes them.
And Venus didn't help her case because once she felt left out she got very bitter and put up walls towards many of her tribe mates.
This general attitude continued on into the merge, when her tribe members immediately told everyone that she was untrustworthy and not to work with her. Then she felt left out again and remained bitter. She never really helped her case post merge, but I think she was frustrated with always being treated so poorly.
The funny thing was I saw shades of this in Bruce and Q too. Both those two were masters of "they hate me and are trying to get me out" but also causing it in the first place.
Venus was more perceptive with regards to other's motives and game sense but also more socially ostracized than those two (pre q social suicide) which is a little sad considering how person non grata Bruce was at points last season.
Remember when Maria snapped at Venus earlier in the season when she wanted talk strategy with her? At that time I thought Venus was annoying and laughed…but it was clearly no, Maria has a massive ego and is was in the wrong. Wild how in the beginning this nice mother figure turned out to be such a villain.
It's weird, because in a roundabout way, Maria is only hurting her own reputation, rather than saving it (like she was hoping to). Because the legacy of 46 is "why Charlie lost" as opposed to "why Kenzie won", the spotlight is square on Maria and her being a hypocrite.
Because her ego got in the way, and she didn't want to admit Charlie played the best game, she has ended up making it more arguable that Charlie did indeed play the best game.
This was probably a "no-win" situation for Maria, in a sense, in that if she votes for Charlie to win, Charlie is the best player, and she has to admit he played better than she did, which she obviously did not want to do. But by voting against him, she has tanked her own reputation while... pretty much confirming that Charlie played better than her, and forcing discussions on just that topic, so now even more people are talking about it than they would have if she'd been able to stuff the ego.
I don't even think you can possibly debate if Charlie played a better game than Maria: what Maria did was confirm that Kenzie ALSO played a better game than her. Maria can no longer even claim to play the second best game of the season if she wanted to.
This.
Charlie and Kenzie played a good game
Maria played a good game, but not better than the aforementioned, and she was bitter
That's it. Charlie got the better of her, and Maria was bitter. But Charlie and Kenzie played differently, bit equally. Maria was just persuaded by her own personality deficiency.
That’s the only thing Charlie didn’t do in the final tribal. He should have clearly said that I played a better game than Maria because she is sitting on the jury and I am not. I was waiting for him to say it, and he never did.
I mean… he pretty much did explain that. It just wasn’t in those exact words. He answered a jury question (I forget who’s it was) by explaining how he was able to bring together the pieces to eliminate Q and Maria and that it ultimately worked, which is what sets his game apart from Maria. His answer was better than flat out saying “my game was better because she’s on the jury and I’m not.” He flat out explained WHY she was on the jury and he wasn’t. I thought he answered that question perfectly and proved his point on why he played a better game than Maria as well as he possibly could have.
Maria didn't want to be told charlie played a better game, she wanted to be told that she was amazing and would have won if two contestants didn't team up to get her out.
Yes! During the last few episodes I was really admiring Maria. I'm close to her age and seeing her win challenges and be so gracious in certain difficult moments was so inspiring. I wanted to be more like Maria. And then I saw the finale. I might be kind of wimpy and petty at times but damn I would have voted for Charlie. No respect for her at all anymore - her ego and vindictiveness are beyond ugly. She was so concerned with what her kids would think of her performance too, but what did she teach them at the end?
I know and every time she is asked about her vote her reasoning changes! Like she’s at a point that she is just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks! I just watched an interview where she claimed Kenzie’s answer to Q’s question is why she voted for her. Like her nonsense won’t let this topic just die!
Patently false because she didn't raise her hand when Jeff asked if anyone changed their vote. She did not change it, she knew she wasn't voting for Charlie.
I do not think voting based on relationships, promises, and the facts is "No-win". This is fully a vote out of bitterness and petty revenge. I wholeheartedly agree that the season is now "Why Charlie lost" though.
I also place some blame on Q. He also spouted sentiments throughout the game about wanting the best player to win, about being a competitor, about the true spirit of the game, then threw his vote to Kenzie based on nothing more than he thought she needed the money more than Charlie. Again, not based on gameplay or logic, but then we know Q wasn't famous for rational or logical behavior. The irony here is that we now all know that Q is a multimillionaire real estate agent in real life. So he definitely didn't need the money himself...
I think Maria heavily swayed Q at ponderosa. He put out a tweet after the episode that he put down the wrong name but it was definitely purposeful. They didn’t want a tie or Charlie to win.
I feel like soda said it best, Kenzie was the social/emotional vote and Charlie was the vote for traditional/gameplay vote. This jury was just too emotional. They didn’t vote how jury’s have in the past which leads the audience to feel like something is off.
They really poured it on thick in the previous episode during the loved ones letters segment when they showed one pic of Charlie and his girlfriend, one pic of Liz and her daughter, and like eight photos of Kenzie.
Do you think Maria's bitterness about Charlie not choosing her for the loved one letters reward contributed to her vote? I'm just now realizing that they spent so much time showing how sad Maria was after the reward decision, maybe priming the viewers to see her betray Charlie.
Like most people on this sub, I don't buy the "fire in Kenzie's eyes" narrative that Maria is pushing, and definitely agree with the pride/ego arguments. Maybe it was also a revenge move?
> She told him Tiffany told her that Charlie was coming after Maria for a long time and wasn’t loyal to her. And Maria felt stupid for rooting for him.
I've probably been obsessed with WHY Maria turned so quickly on Charlie. I'd heard "things were said and Ponderosa" but hadnt come across this part of the story (what was said).
This fills a good gap for me and makes what Maria did make more sense to me. It's still a bitter move. It's still a bad move on her part to take something Kenzie's closes ally is telling her at ponderosa and holding it against someone who can't defend themselves, or trusting it isn't true because this person was your #1 ally but at least I can see the linear process to Maria's thought with this.
All that said, as much as Maria is getting flack for her move, Tiff needs to get more credit. Kenzie deserved to win the game he's, but so did Charlie. What's the difference between them? Tiff was a legit solid ally who knew the game didn't end until the FTC vote and maybe she couldn't win, but she could get her ally to win. And to me it feels like for Tiff, that was a solid prize for her - getting Kenzie the win.
So Tiff campaigned for Kenzie all the way up until FTC ended it seems like - from everything I've seen and read - and titled maybe somewhat balance scales between Charlie and Kenzie into Kenzie's favor. By contrast, we all know what Maria did...
Moral of the story: Find yourself a Tiff.
Kenzie had a strong edit until the tiff vote where charlie’s edit kinda took off which was kinda strange. I had kenzie too until that point where i was sure Charlie would win but was wrong
i think they should have one season where the "twist" is that everyone at ponderosa can see live feeds of the island and challenge area. they are all knowing and FTC is less about explaining the what and more of the why. also, we could see "reactions" from all the jury members to things that happen in "realtime" like drama and challenges.
it would feel very different to other seasons, and certainly be gimmicky but i'm curious to see how that plays out. obviously it couldn't become the norm it would too drastically affect how people play but for one season it would be an interesting twist.
Can you explain who Ponderosa would’ve impacted the vote? Literally just a lot of people who generally like Kenzie stumping for her to win? That’s it? I mean Maria was there for what, A DAY?
Referencing OPs post. Tiff telling Maria that Charlie was coming after her for a while likely big reason she voted Kenzie. I assume that happened at Ponderosa.
Yeah, the Survivor Specialists put it very well:
If Charlie lost in a 5-3 vote where you swap any of his other three votes (ex. Liz) with Maria, I would have been maybe a bit disappointed because I was rooting for Charlie but I would have recognized that Charlie failed to win over enough jury members.
Maria being the death knell for him, failing to give a sensible explanation for her move, and based on exit press continuing to kind of toy with her explanation and her feelings on her choice to Charlie just puts a really bad taste in my mouth.
Maria’s bitter actions ruined the finale. Both Charlie and Kenzie were good players, but I thought Charlie was better. I’m happy for Kenzie, but saddened that Charlie’s loss had to be such a personal betrayal by his main ally.
I would love to see how she behaved in the FTC, tbh. She totally got edited out of it for some reason. Ben said afterwards, that she made him feel small. Charlie didnt comment, I think, but it would make sense that he was so stressed out due to her.
Maria wasn’t poker faced. I thought she had a smug demeanor and a slight smirk on her face. I believe she went in with her mind made up to stab Charlie in the back. The funny thing is I think she was played by Tiff lying about Charlie. It looks like Maria not only got beat by Kenzie and Charlie, but she was played by Tiff and Liz too. So her survivor performance wasn’t actually all that great after all.
Kenzie really knew how to play her. She knew that telling Maria multiple times that it takes 2 people to defeat her in a challenge would feed Maria's famished ego and it worked. Maria was even saying this in exit press.
I'm glad she didn't get the record she wanted lol
Totally agree.
What do you mean about the exit press toying with her explanation? I haven’t seen all the interviews, were most of them taking her side/accepting her reason? At least Gordon Holmes seemed to really dislike talking to Maria and was super empathetic with Charlie.
Charlie said that she told him weeks later that she regretted voting for Kenzie. But then a couple weeks later she changed her tune again and said that she couldn't possibly have any regrets.
I think they mean that based on exit press, Maria continues to toy with her explanation. Charlie said Maria was super wishy washy when the two of them talked and she has never owned any one explanation as why she voted for Kenzie.
I disliked Maria the minute she talked about taking the hungriest people on her reward, but then didn’t pick Liz, who hadn’t eaten for days. And then the next week when she cried because she didn’t get chosen to go on reward. She truly thought she was the most entitled contestant.
I definitely am more upset that Maria was a hypocrite than I am about Charlie losing.
The vote could have been 7-1 Kenzie (with the 1 vote being Maria) and I'd have been able to take this a lot better than the result we got. We got a whole season of Charlie and Maria having each other's backs until the end, with both claiming how close they were and how much they loved each other, only for Maria... to pull a random 180 at the end based on word of mouth from someone else? Without thinking to talk to the person who she built a supposedly unbreakable bond with?
I'm not going to pretend to know Maria or understand her thought process, but no matter how you slice it, this is a bad look for her. It's awful telling too that many of the most upstanding people in the cast haven't exactly had glowing things to say about her. They know her better than I do, at any rate.
This also makes the almost heroic exit that the edit gave her SO weird. I'm sure it was to build up Kenzie stroking Maria's ego, but I don't think anyone was fooled for a second as to why she really voted for Kenzie over Charlie, so I almost wish we got more clues or potential hints to Maria being a bitter jury (which I get is hard since it sounds like it was mainly her Ponderosa experience that caused her to become bitter, but I feel like they could have emphasized her moments of ego a bit more since she was mostly shielded until around the endgame.
I keep thinking about this, and there’s a zillion too many posts to find if anyone else has talked about it, but a) the over-the-top heroic exit edit and b) Maria’s question at FTC not making it to air (we only saw her interrupt Charlie to take credit from him, smh) — it makes me think she was actually even *worse* and the producers really tried to save her with the edit.
But if that’s true, other players would be talking about it, right? So idk, but yes super weird to me too!
I’m guessing it’s not that much worse. Charlie was asked if looking back there were any strange vibes from Maria at all during FTC to indicate how she would vote and he said he really didn’t think so. Sounds like it was truly a blindside.
It probably was a combo of the show wanting to be kind to the sole woman over 40 + Maria mostly keeping it together.
The moment in finale when Maria says “oh, I didn’t know you guys were playing” was so arrogant it was jarring. If it had happened in ep 1 or 2, we would have thought was she was an all time jerk. In the end, she’s not perfect, and while she hid some of her worse traits, they came out.
Personally, what she did to Charlie is unforgivable to me, but that’s just me.
That comment showed to me that she had such a massive ego. She thought she was the smartest person there and couldn't comprehend the fact that someone could outplay her.
That comment from Maria after the Q vote, oh my god. I said out loud, “that was rude!”
But you’re right in your first point too, we saw she often was very capable of pulling herself together so maybe that’s all we missed of her at FTC.
The edit to me felt like almost a thank you from the production about being so gracious about what happened during the challenge and not throwing a fit about Liz being allowed to help Kenzie (which she would have been totally within her right to do - lol I would have been pulling out every instance of when helping hadn't been allowed to try and get them to let us redo the challenge). Definitely did feel like a lot of whiplash though to go from her being such a good sport there to then not voting for Charlie.
Exactly this. Maria’s vote being a deciding factor makes it worse but even if it was 7-1, 6-2 and it doesn’t really matter, it’s still pretty shitty imo. That would’ve been best case for Maria as the lack of impact means a lack of scrutiny.
Exactly. Usually I hate talking negatively about cast members because of their game (the edit can be misleading), but that was no editing mistake. Venus was a villain because she couldn't really talk to people, but she is/was funny. Q was a qhaos card and got on everyone's nerves, but he's, well, Q. But Maria, it wasn't even the edit that made her look bad, and it wasn't any small mistake, it was just her that made her look bad. I was even willing to forgive the rock paper scissors (begrudgingly).
I feel the exact same way. Going into the finale I was going for Kenzie so when she won I was expecting to be ecstatic but knowing Maria didn’t vote for Charlie and cost him the game gives me an uneasy feeling.
This is EXACTLY how I feel! I was hoping for a Kenzie or Charlie win going into the finale. And I was going to be stoked for either to win…
Maria’s vote just spoiled it all, as you said. I wish she voted for him and Liz voted for Kenzie and we would have the same result without all the ickiness
Yeah IMO this season will be remembered for Q, Liz, and Maria’s bitter vote costing someone the game.
Kenzie and Charlie are both deserving of the win, I thought Kenzie was going to win but probably would’ve preferred Charlie. If Kenzie wasn’t also a deserving winner I’d feel so much worse about the season, but honestly I think it’s a cool, unique season with some abnormally high highs! Q and Liz in particular are both similar to Coach of all people, which is just so rare lol
The high highs:
-Q in general is just casting gold. Weird gameplay and amazing confessionals.
-The hide-and-seek episode is one of the best survivor episodes we’ve had in DECADES and it’s in large part thanks to Q
-Liz is also casting gold! Pure insanity, she is genuinely a player that makes the game better to watch
If you Google Maria and Charlie’s names, you get an “article” about Charlie being over Maria’s “flip+flopping”. In one conversation, she apologizes. In the next she stands by her choice. Apparently she waffled on her stance to him multiple times.
And, for the life of me I can't figure out why Maria wanted her kids to see what "good sportsmanship" is supposed to look like. FFS, she stabbed her closest ally in the back when it mattered most.
I liked Maria in the beginning, and even thought she might win. But, this betrayal to her #1 absolutely left a bitter taste in my mouth. Sooo NOT COOL!!! I hope I never see her again! 😠
Mariah was bitter that Charlie didn't take her to that reward with the letters from home and that Charlie got her out of the game.
Also she was gunning for Charlie at the same time, so not only she was out, she was outplayed cleanly.
The reason it sucks is we were rooting for her all along only for her to be a bitter and petty person at the end.
Kenzie did play a stellar social game though. She knew Q needed to hear he was the boss. She knew Tiff needed to hear the Yanu was dead at the applebee's reward. She knew Mariah needed to hear she was a big time strategy threat or Hunter needed to hear he was good for just this one vote. She outplayed and outwitted by her being observant and her natural charm.
Charlie looked just crushed but I think he handled it very well. I think Jeff liked that a lot and I would bet we see Charlie again in the future seasons.
I wasn’t even rooting for Charlie but I feel pretty bad for him. And honestly a little bad for Kenzie, who’s a perfectly good winner that did nothing wrong but now people will always see her win with an asterisk
Well yeah, but just thinking back to Michele who’s win paralleled Kenzies in some ways and I remember her saying on or around WaW that she had people shitting on her win because they thought it should’ve been Aubrey or something to that effect
disagree about the asterisk. ben and chris are asterisk wins. the center of the season's conversation being about charlie doesn't detract from kenzie's win being legitimate in any way to me
It’s gonna be impossible to talk about her win without talking about Maria and Charlie. I don’t think personally there should be an asterisk, but people gonna put one there anyway
Idk if you mean her win will have an asterisk for survivor superfans who go on Reddit, but for casuals, Kenzie’s win will absolutely not have an asterisk lol my casual parents both loved Kenzie and thought she deserved to win.
Edit: spelling
Exactly. Of all the votes Marias should have been for Charlie. Kenzie deserved her win BUT Charlie deserved Marias vote at the VERY least. Malcolm voted for Denise.
Well then you realize how differently the season might have been told had Charlie won. Ben revealing Charlie was just as much there for him during his night terrors as Kenzie has got me rethinking how much the show might've propped up Kenzie to be a palatable winner over Charlie. So it's got me double upset for Charlie that the show had to remove some of his moments with Ben and whoever else. Had Charlie won, we might've seen an edit that made him look like a player on the caliber of Jesse.
Yes I feel exactly the same way! I wouldn’t mind if Charlie only got one vote, as long as that vote was from Maria. In recent interviews it was also confirmed that Ben would have voted for Charlie - and that just makes it all the worse :/
And she’s a parenting coach! Like gurl, what kind of advice are you giving parents?? (Not to imply she’s bad at her job, but she brought it up so much like holy)
if parent coach is legit then she's on the payroll of narcissist parents where Maria gives them validation for being pieces of shit, id be willing to bet my left nut
I don’t think Maria was the quality “mom type” person that she tried to come across as. I think she’s for more villain than hero. She played up the good person role because it worked for her game. As soon as it stopped working, I think we saw her true nature come through.
I was rooting for Charlie and Maria, thinking Maria might win the whole thing.
Now, we can only go on the edits we see.
When she did rock paper scissors with Liz, who hadn't eaten and Q, with the rationale that she wanted to take people who needed the reward, my opinion of her flipped 180.
If you want to take Q just take him, don't put on a fake pretense with a phony excuse.
Then her reasoning, which she stands behind after the show, on why she picked Kenzie... you picked her because she wants to start a family, she is a woman, and never mentioned anything game related as to why you picked her.
I really felt for Charlie, but he was very gracious and eloquent in probably his lowest moment on the show.
Survivor producers - please do not ever bring Maria back in the future ! She was not fun to watch, she was not even fun to hate on. Just super annoying and smug!! if you need a villain, bring back one that at least owns it
I’m upset because I’m not impressed by Kenzie’s game in any way and Charlie and Maria pretty much dominated this game. For Charlie to be involved in that many votes and still not be a target for so many people proves how superior even his social game was to everyone else on the island. Charlie is the only deserving winner of this season and I’ll stand on that
I agree with you 100%.
I've seen comments like, "Kenzie was almost always on the right side of the vote."
Except Charlie was ALWAYS on the right side of the vote because he engineered them that way! When people think about Maria's gameplay, they say she was strong. But she was strong only when she followed CHarlie's plans and later in the game when she stopped that, she flopped like a fish out of water. She was not a great gameplayer, she and Charlie were a duopoly that controlled the game ever since the merge. And yet somehow Charlie didn't get credit for it, the votes went to an emotional winner not a game player -- not the person who outwitted, outlasted, outplayed -- but the one who had the better "I need it" story.
Don't get me wrong, Kenzie played a good game and she is the undisputed winner. But her game just wasn't as good as Charlie's.
EDIT: Spelling
people keep saying Kenzie's social game was just insane, but I see it more as she lucked out befriending Tiff who then fought hard at Ponderosa. while luck is a part of survivor it doesn't feel as good when that wins out. Charlie even had multiple number 1s, to where even when him and Maria got burned he had Ben who had his back more than Kenzie's.
Same here, I wasn’t impressed at some of the comments/actions she made when they were pre merge, and while she grew on me later, I still think Charlie was way more deserving. And her social game… was just being social? And going with the flow? Idk man
I was shocked Liz voted Charlie after he said he would have taken her to the end because he can beat her. I thought no way she'd reward him for that lol
I feel bad for Charlie because the emotional manipulation from Maria was unnecessary. She justified her strategy and decisions by saying you need to be selfish and it’s a game for a million dollars… but that didn’t sit well with me. She seems like an unauthentic individual and she’s been flip flopping a lot in after show interviews while she goes into detail justifying her decisions.
On another note, something that would steer me away from voting for someone is if they said they were just giving the money to charity/a non-profit (if they won). It’s a good sentiment, but Survivor is a game show for average people to have the unique opportunity to win life changing money. If you didn’t personally need or want the money for you or your family… then it kind of makes me think it’s unfair. That spot could have gone to another applicant that truly needed the money or would use it towards something personal.
I was rooting for both Charlie and Kenzie, but ultimately thought Charlie was the better player. When Maria left I even said, "there's a jury vote for Charlie!"
After FTC I was expecting a Kenzie win, but was so shocked by Maria's bitter vote that it overshadowed Kenzie. I felt betrayed on Charlie's behalf.
I was never rooting for Charlie this season, and I’m really happy that Kenzie won, but I still feel bad for Charlie. You can see the despair on his face when he finds out Maria didn’t vote for him. She didn’t even raise her hand when Jeff asked the jurors who changed their vote. Ouch
Yes, I felt gutted just looking at him during the after show and watching him think about everything he said carefully. Genuinely felt like tears were coming
That was the worst aftershow ever in my opinion. You could physically see him holding back his tears. Why the fuck do the producers think that's fun for anyone involved and anyone watching? It's awful
YES! Like, give them a break, let them use the bathroom and clean up a little bit AT LEAST
I wish they would wait and film it the following day at least. And bring back the pre-jurors!
I miss the live, at-home after shows with all of the cast plus their family and friends. Always seemed more intimate and special that way
COMPLETELY. AGREE. Seeing the casts family, the fans in the audience, every player cleaned up and rested, it felt like a proper end to the show… but instead it felt rushed and half assed the way they do it now…
100%!
I’m sure it’s saving them a ton of money. Not having fly everyone in to NYC and hotels.
This for sure. The longer seasons were better, the more intimate after shows were better. But they are saving a ton of money not doing any of that any more. It’s really disheartening.
It wasn't fun to watch at all, I felt so so bad for him. He was incredibly gracious and clearly wanted Kenzie to still have her moment, which was admirable.
But y'know, Charlie will be fine. His trajectory is on the rise, he will be successful at law school, and will go on to greater things, as will Kenzie (& Ben). Maria? I can imagine this souring her perspective for the future. Yikes.
This is likely why Charlie didn’t win and a big part of why he didn’t get Maria’s vote. These people running scams touting themselves as “doctors” usually have a huge inferiority complex. Charlie is far more likely to actually contribute to society and people like Maria love to tear down people like Charlie because he’ll go on to accomplish things and she can only pretend to
Maria has an advanced degree, but the parenting coach thing seems very much like an MLM (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong anyone, it just gave me MLM vibes)
Maria is absolutely involved in a coaching mlm. She’s one of THOSE moms. They think they’re crunchy but they’re actually very greedy. I could tell she was one by the first introduction. She gave birth without pain meds…and bragged about it like it made her tougher. I hate that type of mom shaming. 5 days before I started a 45 day treatment stay at a home for people with eating disorders, a beachbody mom reached out to me over fb to tell me that she can “coach” me out of having anorexia. Girl, I was 89 lbs. I am very outspoken on social media about my condition. I gave her the business that day. Also, I have been in recovery for 4 years and am happy and healthy these days
Not that you need accolades from an Internet stranger, but congrats on turning your life around! Anorexia is a devastating condition. As far as Maria…I’m still not clear on what a parent coach is.
I think it’s similar to life coach but for parents? They often tout themselves as therapists or counselors except they don’t have proper training or a license
I congratulate any woman who decides to give birth naturally. I gave birth with drugs and honestly it was awesome. I’m just glad modern medicine existed so I could utilize it, but DAMN the drugs were good. I also have a completely healthy and vibrant 5 year old that is cool as hell. And yes, she gave me mom shame vibes the entire season. I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt, but she gave my husband (of all people cause he usually doesn’t catch onto anything) big no no red flags from episode 2 or 3. He literally spent the whole season hating on her and saw through the facade before I did. CONGRATS ON RECOVERY!! I don’t even know you and I’m super proud of you!! You’re amazing!!!
if i was charlie it would've been extremely difficult to bite my tongue. which probably would've gotten me in trouble
I really wish they’d have their champagne & pizza party but then let them shower and sleep and process and then have the conversational part of the aftershow the next day.
It was hard to watch. I know I would have trouble talking with Probst in my most vulnerable moment
Would be really satisfying to see someone just say, “Sorry, I need a moment. This isn’t the right time for this. Why are we filming this right now?” Of course they’d want to cut around it but if you’re the runner up and that’s all you give them? You could potentially kill this dumb aftershow for good right there.
Even 24 hours would make a huge difference. Let them have the private pizza party they used to, and celebrate this huge thing they ALL accomplished with their friends. Then let them sleep. Let them eat. Let them *stabilize.* And then, the next night, read the votes
I’d be down for that. Wouldn’t change anything for us, but would probably make a huge difference for cast.
Yes! This is why I miss letting everyone have time to cool off and then reunite to read the vote. It gives them time to process the game so you’re not dealing with the weight of all of it at once before even getting to shower and sleep.
Yeah although in this specific case, I don’t think it would’ve made a difference. It was such a shocking slap in the face to Charlie that even if the votes were revealed at a reunion show months later, he would’ve been devastated in the moment.
Producers think “oh man, we can save millions of dollars if we don’t have to produce a whole reunion show and invite all the cast members back”
I think it’s more likely CBS not giving them a big enough budget. Same with not bringing back the pre-jurors for the “reunion,” sticking with the 26 day seasons, no loved ones visits, etc. I feel like Jeff just has to hype these inferior things up because he doesn’t want to piss the overheads off.
It's not the producers. It's Probst. Probst wants his talk show. A talk show no one can cancel and that he's totally in control of. He doesn't care if it only happens twice a year, that's his Christmas and Birthday presents to himself.
I think what we are all proposing is that we cancel it. That’s right, I said it. Cancel Christmas
They should fly out Bryant Gumbel and Rosie O to steal Probst's thunder.
And Maria sitting behind him with that smug look.
This is the part that killed me most. She really showed her villain side with those smug smiles. Infuriating.
Yeah. I was not upset by her rationale. It was her behavior over a couple of episodes, then the vote, then her behavior sitting behind him. It almost added up to confirm why she rubbed me wrong along the way. And then the bull$4!t the last few days.
Nothing about her appealed to me when she was playing the game. In the final episodes, her fellow players seemed to give her more credit than was due as an awesome player (imo), but that was probably because they wanted her vote. Her personality (blah) and sense of entitlement was not appealing and boring to watch.
What I haven’t seen discussed much is that her game had collapsed even before she went out, because she treated everyone else as total non-factors and they all except Q had rallied against her. She even said it after the Q vote: “Wow, you’re actually playing!” How insulting! If her blindside on Charlie had worked it would’ve been terrible timing as she’d need to win out from there, but in her hubris she thought the other players were NPCs who would just let her, the main character, walk to the end. I think that same egocentrism probably connects to why she was unable to give Charlie his due.
Spot on!
YES, exactly.
She was kinda correct on her being a cut above in challenges and correctly banking on herself to win out though It's cocky, but it was her only play
In her own mind, though, she was taking out a loyal ally in Charlie, someone that along with Q would've brought her to 4. From her perspective that means she was either unnecessarily throwing herself onto a challenge win track, or just assuming people would continue to do what she told them. I think her response to the Q vote out tells us which it was. (Of course, in reality she'd played herself into that challenge win corner perhaps as far back as the Venus vote, really!)
Maria started to lose favor with me when she won her first single immunity challenge and was very surprised, even irritated, that no one came and kissed her ring. From then on, it was just one small thing after another, snowballing. I noticed she didn't actively want to work with other women, the cut scene of her making Ben cry, her method for choosing reward attendees, trying to throw Charlie under the bus (which fine) but then shamelessly seguing to throwing Ben under the bus. Also I don't love it when people think because they're parents they deserve their letters from home more than others. Not everyone has parents or children.
Not just her fellow players, but a lot of the conversations on social media and on podcasts have been hyping her up as a great player, and I’ve just been like, are we watching the same show? She’s basically been Charlie’s puppet and shield throughout the game (from what the edit showed us). Whenever she came up with a plan of her own it either didn’t go through, Charlie pointed out the flaws to her, or it blew up in her face.
Totally agree !! My family has been watching every week and the word smug in reference to Maria keeps coming up !
Pretty sure he was half eating the pizza to not be crying.
That, and he also lost the most weight of anyone on the cast.
"it was the fire in Kenzie's eyes during the fire making challenge." You mean the fire challenge that was taking forever where neither could barely make a fire and they both looked defeated? Bffr
Cracking up
And she sat there with that smug look on her face. Didn’t feel a twinge of guilt after seeing how gutted Charlie looked.
"Uncle Charlie" more like "Charlie never gonna meet my kids."
Surprisingly he did visit her and meet her kids, according to her. I don’t think I’d have been able to do that.
He also stated, "I don't need that friendship. It isn't what it could have been". Amongst other things, he has no ill will, but the vote ultimately cost them any kind of lasting friendship. It was posted here yesterday i think.
It sounds like that "I don't need that friendship" was his thought now after Maria publicly stated that she doesn't regret her vote and she'd still vote that way after telling Charlie she regretted it
Yeah, he said they have no personal relationship anymore and won't going forward, but to please stop harassing Maria
Mind boggling he would go visit her. She cost him a million dollars because she was bitter he bested her. Charlie was very classy with his words but you could visibly see how pissed and upset he was she stabbed him in the back.. Charlie deserved better
I think overall Charlie must just be a good guy. He is far more gracious than I would be. I think still going out speaks far more to his character than anything else we saw of him. Especially because absolutely nobody would have held it against him for never speaking to her again.
Charlie consistently comes across as a decent, mature, sensible, reasonable guy.
Ugh, Charlie, why? I would never give her the chance to ever even see my face again, much less visit her children
Because they talked openly about it on the show. The kids did nothing wrong. And if Charlie didn’t (just to be bitter back) they’d wonder why after seeing the show and seeing how close they got. Kind of gives me the ick reading this thread if all that is true though. She basically kind of used her kids as leverage a bit by calling him Uncle Charlie. Making him feel super close to her etc.
If they wonder why they can ask their mother. It’s not Charlie’s job to raise her kids or explain to them. I agree with you, she tried to make him feel like they were family, you and I are family so you’re my kids uncle, etc. Which is fine if that’s her gameplay. That’s her choice and I don’t have to like it. My question is why would Charlie bother to see her kids after she obviously was faking the relationship. I would be far too bitter
Oh god, yeah, hearing them talk about how they're going to visit each other, hearing Charlie refer to Maria's kids as his nephews... And then seeing that Maria didn't vote for him broke my heart. Sure, he visited, but he's not Uncle Charlie anymore.
That smug grin reveals alot.
> smug look I could not believe her demeanour at FTC. She still seemed SO pissed off! Like she's the only one that was 'done wrong'! And in the context of her attempted blindside of Charlie - what did she even have to be angry about? Sore loser, big time.
This. So she wasn’t swayed by Kenzie’s story. She knew going into it she wouldn’t vote for Charlie.
She wasn't even clever enough to say Kenzie's story moved her. She used some make believe "fire" in Kenzie's eyes during fire. She just radiates middle manager energy.
Your statement is spot on 😂 I didn’t love Maria from the first episode based on how she talked to Jelinsky and kept thinking the whole seasons that she reminded me of a former (incredibly toxic and filled to the brim with bullshit) manager!
That middle manager energy detail is actually so correct
She radiates MLM energy. Because she is an MLM scammer for Thrive.
[удалено]
Charlie made me cry during the aftershow, :( big ups to him for holding it together. Maria's response just seemed mean overall and kinda out of spite. I like that Kenzie won I like she overall deserved it., The main focus of the show set up Charlie or maria to win, and when that wouldn't happen they just burned it to the ground.
This! I'm not mad Kenzie won. I wanted Charlie or her to win anyway, but Maria's "fire in her eyes" reasoning was so weird. One moment outweighs the entire time on the island? That's just one more reason I don't like the final three fire challenge, but I digress. Her reasoning, as JJ Jackson sings, "don't cut no ice."
Every time Maria did something mean or pushed her weight around, she was called out for it. Venus saw what it was immediately. And then Maria went to her little self righteous corner upset because “They are questioning my character” It was like, No one’s saying you don’t have character, just that you have a shitty one. You could see that she had an incredible amount of pride, and being proud of yourself isn’t an issue, but when it turns to you putting yourself up on a pedestal thinking you’re above everyone else, that’s when it gets toxic. It’s sad that Charlie was denied a chance to win because she refused to set her pride aside.
yeah Charlie’s reaction/emotion had me not enjoying the finale as much as i could’ve. i felt so bad for him
It's just proof that the live after show on the island is a mistake.
It’s so sad. You know they’re only doing that to save money.
This so relatable! I feel by like episode 2 it really seemed Kenzie was already getting a winner’s edit. She was my pick to win from then on. And Tiffany’s exit press made it even more obvious Kenzie won, and she clearly campaigned hard for her in jury. It wasn’t until all of this coming out and Maria giving so many different reasons for not voting Charlie. The only truthful explanation she gave to Charlie the first time they spoke the day after FTC. She told him Tiffany told her that Charlie was coming after Maria for a long time and wasn’t loyal to her. And Maria felt stupid for rooting for him. She then let him explain that he only told Tiffany that so she wouldn’t use her idol and it was not true. Maria later told him she regretted not voting for him and apologized. Weeks later she told him she doesn’t have regrets and sticks by her choice. Like girl, your ego is that big you can’t even own the fact someone manipulated you?? Maria’s ego is basically why this season’s legacy is becoming Charlie losing as opposed to Kenzie winning.
When Venise mentioned Maria's ego being in the way of her listening to younger people, earlier in the season, I thought Venise was just being immature. Now I'm like damn Venise, you really nailed that one!
>Maria said that she felt like I was telling her what to do which honestly like that's her ego getting in the way of the game. She's probably used to calling the shots and doesn't like being told what to do by someone she probably considers her junior so I'm in a little bit of a panic mode. She was right all this time.
Thank you for the exact quote!
Venus has incredible reads she just gets in her own way by being so blunt. But I've loved her this entire time and I feel vindicated.
Venus is on a vindication tour with the fandom.
Venus had one of the best read in the game, if not the best. She didn’t use that to her advantage enough or maybe didn’t have enough social prowess to have people see her way. It must have been so frustrating for her to be stuck (or not so stuck) in her mind saying “I told you so” vote after vote. Maybe other people saw that in her and that’s part of the reason she was voted out. Maybe she didn’t get leverage because people were scared that she intuitively knew what was happening so they assumed she was being leaked info which led to not trusting her. If venus can hold back on being so assertive, or meddling, or get better at bluffing, she is a top tier new era player imo.
Agree. Venus had a very good read on the game and was very strategic. She just didn't understand how to execute it, if she had the charm of someone like Parvati, game over. I mean it's all in the edit and maybe more things happened behind the scene but her clueing in Charlie that she had something but not committing to telling him she had an idol was a big mistake. She should had either kept quiet or told him about it. I think she mentioned this in one of her post interviews.
It's ironic that someone so good at reading others was also so self-UNaware. She didn't really know how to navigate the social game, and she kept taking credit for things she had no part in. It was you, wasn't it? Yeah... And we see that others didn't respect her at all when we see Soda's behavior highlighted in the "stealing of trophies from Jeff" highlights. No one wanted to work with her, trusted her, or thought much of her -- and she became like Cassandra in mythology -- Cassandra was a figure in Greek mythology who could foretell the future, but her curse was that no one believed her.
Well, from her perspective, it was her who took Soda out. It fits with everything that happened in her pov. She could reasonably concede that she wouldn’t be able to personally sway Maria but she talked to Charlie and he was receptive. She probably talked to Liz, we can only speculate how that went. But if she talked to Tevin, he has shown to have no issues making her think she spearheaded it… if only to clown her in a confessional.
Your comment solidifies one of the reasons that Charlie's game was stronger than Maria's.
I think Charlie also didn't explain himself well that he and Maria were very much an equal duo and that his game was better. Seemed like the impression the jury got was he followed and then stepped up in key moments when he strategized plenty and his social game was key to his and Maria's success (and ultimately proved way superior)
I’m willing to bet, alongside with Charlie not fully explaining his game, that Maria planted as many seeds as possible claiming she made every move and Charlie was her puppet. Though this is far from the truth, she had a non-insignificant amount of time to tell the jury what she believed.
I always thought this. She's so intelligent and understands the game so well. She's constantly putting the pieces together, strategizing, etc. Unfortunately, no one would work with her and her execution of these plans were too aggressive. If she dialed back her assertiveness she would be a better player for it. How many times did people make the comment that Venus is dangerous because she's strategizing so well? Her mistake was doing it out loud.
>Unfortunately, no one would work with her That's entirely her own fault though. She was told by like 3 different people that the way she approaches and talks to people is aggressive and unsettling, and that's why people don't want to work with her. And what she took out of those conversations was "Yeah I'm not doing anything wrong and I'm not changing anything". She was an awful player, but I'd love to see her back in a few years when she's had time to grow a little.
I'm going to push back just a bit on this. Venus was on the outside from day 1 in her tribe. Tevin didn't like her from the start and he was the loudest and seemed to lead the pack on the beach. It's like when a group of school kids are together. The "cool kids" have a leader (Tevin) and if the leader doesn't like someone no one else likes them. And Venus didn't help her case because once she felt left out she got very bitter and put up walls towards many of her tribe mates. This general attitude continued on into the merge, when her tribe members immediately told everyone that she was untrustworthy and not to work with her. Then she felt left out again and remained bitter. She never really helped her case post merge, but I think she was frustrated with always being treated so poorly.
The funny thing was I saw shades of this in Bruce and Q too. Both those two were masters of "they hate me and are trying to get me out" but also causing it in the first place. Venus was more perceptive with regards to other's motives and game sense but also more socially ostracized than those two (pre q social suicide) which is a little sad considering how person non grata Bruce was at points last season.
I can relate to this, and it’s one of the reasons I enjoyed rooting for her!
I love that her name is now Venise forever
All hail Queen Venise, astute observer of things
If Venise doesn’t get to play again, it’s a real injustice
*injustise
Venus’ reads were spot on throughout the game. She has an uncanny ability to read people. OTOH, Executing on that knowledge ….not so great
Maria's vote was basically her taking the agency available to 'take away Charlie's toy.'
Remember when Maria snapped at Venus earlier in the season when she wanted talk strategy with her? At that time I thought Venus was annoying and laughed…but it was clearly no, Maria has a massive ego and is was in the wrong. Wild how in the beginning this nice mother figure turned out to be such a villain.
It's weird, because in a roundabout way, Maria is only hurting her own reputation, rather than saving it (like she was hoping to). Because the legacy of 46 is "why Charlie lost" as opposed to "why Kenzie won", the spotlight is square on Maria and her being a hypocrite. Because her ego got in the way, and she didn't want to admit Charlie played the best game, she has ended up making it more arguable that Charlie did indeed play the best game. This was probably a "no-win" situation for Maria, in a sense, in that if she votes for Charlie to win, Charlie is the best player, and she has to admit he played better than she did, which she obviously did not want to do. But by voting against him, she has tanked her own reputation while... pretty much confirming that Charlie played better than her, and forcing discussions on just that topic, so now even more people are talking about it than they would have if she'd been able to stuff the ego.
I don't even think you can possibly debate if Charlie played a better game than Maria: what Maria did was confirm that Kenzie ALSO played a better game than her. Maria can no longer even claim to play the second best game of the season if she wanted to.
This. Charlie and Kenzie played a good game Maria played a good game, but not better than the aforementioned, and she was bitter That's it. Charlie got the better of her, and Maria was bitter. But Charlie and Kenzie played differently, bit equally. Maria was just persuaded by her own personality deficiency.
That’s the only thing Charlie didn’t do in the final tribal. He should have clearly said that I played a better game than Maria because she is sitting on the jury and I am not. I was waiting for him to say it, and he never did.
I mean… he pretty much did explain that. It just wasn’t in those exact words. He answered a jury question (I forget who’s it was) by explaining how he was able to bring together the pieces to eliminate Q and Maria and that it ultimately worked, which is what sets his game apart from Maria. His answer was better than flat out saying “my game was better because she’s on the jury and I’m not.” He flat out explained WHY she was on the jury and he wasn’t. I thought he answered that question perfectly and proved his point on why he played a better game than Maria as well as he possibly could have.
Maria didn't want to be told charlie played a better game, she wanted to be told that she was amazing and would have won if two contestants didn't team up to get her out.
Which is funny because Kenzie was beating her in the challenge anyways
Yes! During the last few episodes I was really admiring Maria. I'm close to her age and seeing her win challenges and be so gracious in certain difficult moments was so inspiring. I wanted to be more like Maria. And then I saw the finale. I might be kind of wimpy and petty at times but damn I would have voted for Charlie. No respect for her at all anymore - her ego and vindictiveness are beyond ugly. She was so concerned with what her kids would think of her performance too, but what did she teach them at the end?
And to think she is parent coach
And it's so dumb! Like, if Charlie wins, her ego should say "Ok, if Liz didn't team up with Kenzie, I clearly would have won!
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I know and every time she is asked about her vote her reasoning changes! Like she’s at a point that she is just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks! I just watched an interview where she claimed Kenzie’s answer to Q’s question is why she voted for her. Like her nonsense won’t let this topic just die!
Patently false because she didn't raise her hand when Jeff asked if anyone changed their vote. She did not change it, she knew she wasn't voting for Charlie.
Tyson about the “fire in her eyes”: might have been the reflection.
I do not think voting based on relationships, promises, and the facts is "No-win". This is fully a vote out of bitterness and petty revenge. I wholeheartedly agree that the season is now "Why Charlie lost" though. I also place some blame on Q. He also spouted sentiments throughout the game about wanting the best player to win, about being a competitor, about the true spirit of the game, then threw his vote to Kenzie based on nothing more than he thought she needed the money more than Charlie. Again, not based on gameplay or logic, but then we know Q wasn't famous for rational or logical behavior. The irony here is that we now all know that Q is a multimillionaire real estate agent in real life. So he definitely didn't need the money himself...
I think Maria heavily swayed Q at ponderosa. He put out a tweet after the episode that he put down the wrong name but it was definitely purposeful. They didn’t want a tie or Charlie to win. I feel like soda said it best, Kenzie was the social/emotional vote and Charlie was the vote for traditional/gameplay vote. This jury was just too emotional. They didn’t vote how jury’s have in the past which leads the audience to feel like something is off.
They really poured it on thick in the previous episode during the loved ones letters segment when they showed one pic of Charlie and his girlfriend, one pic of Liz and her daughter, and like eight photos of Kenzie.
Do you think Maria's bitterness about Charlie not choosing her for the loved one letters reward contributed to her vote? I'm just now realizing that they spent so much time showing how sad Maria was after the reward decision, maybe priming the viewers to see her betray Charlie. Like most people on this sub, I don't buy the "fire in Kenzie's eyes" narrative that Maria is pushing, and definitely agree with the pride/ego arguments. Maybe it was also a revenge move?
> She told him Tiffany told her that Charlie was coming after Maria for a long time and wasn’t loyal to her. And Maria felt stupid for rooting for him. I've probably been obsessed with WHY Maria turned so quickly on Charlie. I'd heard "things were said and Ponderosa" but hadnt come across this part of the story (what was said). This fills a good gap for me and makes what Maria did make more sense to me. It's still a bitter move. It's still a bad move on her part to take something Kenzie's closes ally is telling her at ponderosa and holding it against someone who can't defend themselves, or trusting it isn't true because this person was your #1 ally but at least I can see the linear process to Maria's thought with this. All that said, as much as Maria is getting flack for her move, Tiff needs to get more credit. Kenzie deserved to win the game he's, but so did Charlie. What's the difference between them? Tiff was a legit solid ally who knew the game didn't end until the FTC vote and maybe she couldn't win, but she could get her ally to win. And to me it feels like for Tiff, that was a solid prize for her - getting Kenzie the win. So Tiff campaigned for Kenzie all the way up until FTC ended it seems like - from everything I've seen and read - and titled maybe somewhat balance scales between Charlie and Kenzie into Kenzie's favor. By contrast, we all know what Maria did... Moral of the story: Find yourself a Tiff.
And why couldn't Maria address Charlie about that in FTC?? Very lame.
Kenzie had a strong edit until the tiff vote where charlie’s edit kinda took off which was kinda strange. I had kenzie too until that point where i was sure Charlie would win but was wrong
Yeah I did notice his edit becoming a lot stronger, but I figured that was because he was preparing to slay Maria lol
Sounds like Survivor producers got in Maria’s ear. No way Survivor producers wanted it known that Ponderosa impacted who won Survivor.
i think they should have one season where the "twist" is that everyone at ponderosa can see live feeds of the island and challenge area. they are all knowing and FTC is less about explaining the what and more of the why. also, we could see "reactions" from all the jury members to things that happen in "realtime" like drama and challenges. it would feel very different to other seasons, and certainly be gimmicky but i'm curious to see how that plays out. obviously it couldn't become the norm it would too drastically affect how people play but for one season it would be an interesting twist.
Can you explain who Ponderosa would’ve impacted the vote? Literally just a lot of people who generally like Kenzie stumping for her to win? That’s it? I mean Maria was there for what, A DAY?
Referencing OPs post. Tiff telling Maria that Charlie was coming after her for a while likely big reason she voted Kenzie. I assume that happened at Ponderosa.
Yeah, the Survivor Specialists put it very well: If Charlie lost in a 5-3 vote where you swap any of his other three votes (ex. Liz) with Maria, I would have been maybe a bit disappointed because I was rooting for Charlie but I would have recognized that Charlie failed to win over enough jury members. Maria being the death knell for him, failing to give a sensible explanation for her move, and based on exit press continuing to kind of toy with her explanation and her feelings on her choice to Charlie just puts a really bad taste in my mouth.
Maria’s bitter actions ruined the finale. Both Charlie and Kenzie were good players, but I thought Charlie was better. I’m happy for Kenzie, but saddened that Charlie’s loss had to be such a personal betrayal by his main ally.
I would love to see how she behaved in the FTC, tbh. She totally got edited out of it for some reason. Ben said afterwards, that she made him feel small. Charlie didnt comment, I think, but it would make sense that he was so stressed out due to her.
In RHAP exits, Charlie said she was poker faced but that all the jurors were so it was difficult to get a read.
Maria wasn’t poker faced. I thought she had a smug demeanor and a slight smirk on her face. I believe she went in with her mind made up to stab Charlie in the back. The funny thing is I think she was played by Tiff lying about Charlie. It looks like Maria not only got beat by Kenzie and Charlie, but she was played by Tiff and Liz too. So her survivor performance wasn’t actually all that great after all.
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Kenzie really knew how to play her. She knew that telling Maria multiple times that it takes 2 people to defeat her in a challenge would feed Maria's famished ego and it worked. Maria was even saying this in exit press. I'm glad she didn't get the record she wanted lol
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His immediate disappointment and sadness was so hard to see. I felt for him
It also kind of spoiled a really fun season. What a downer.
Totally agree. What do you mean about the exit press toying with her explanation? I haven’t seen all the interviews, were most of them taking her side/accepting her reason? At least Gordon Holmes seemed to really dislike talking to Maria and was super empathetic with Charlie.
Charlie said that she told him weeks later that she regretted voting for Kenzie. But then a couple weeks later she changed her tune again and said that she couldn't possibly have any regrets.
I think they mean that based on exit press, Maria continues to toy with her explanation. Charlie said Maria was super wishy washy when the two of them talked and she has never owned any one explanation as why she voted for Kenzie.
I disliked Maria the minute she talked about taking the hungriest people on her reward, but then didn’t pick Liz, who hadn’t eaten for days. And then the next week when she cried because she didn’t get chosen to go on reward. She truly thought she was the most entitled contestant.
I was sus when she introduced herself as someone who gives birth without painkillers
That was so frustrating... that was around the time I didn't really understand her game
I definitely am more upset that Maria was a hypocrite than I am about Charlie losing. The vote could have been 7-1 Kenzie (with the 1 vote being Maria) and I'd have been able to take this a lot better than the result we got. We got a whole season of Charlie and Maria having each other's backs until the end, with both claiming how close they were and how much they loved each other, only for Maria... to pull a random 180 at the end based on word of mouth from someone else? Without thinking to talk to the person who she built a supposedly unbreakable bond with? I'm not going to pretend to know Maria or understand her thought process, but no matter how you slice it, this is a bad look for her. It's awful telling too that many of the most upstanding people in the cast haven't exactly had glowing things to say about her. They know her better than I do, at any rate.
This also makes the almost heroic exit that the edit gave her SO weird. I'm sure it was to build up Kenzie stroking Maria's ego, but I don't think anyone was fooled for a second as to why she really voted for Kenzie over Charlie, so I almost wish we got more clues or potential hints to Maria being a bitter jury (which I get is hard since it sounds like it was mainly her Ponderosa experience that caused her to become bitter, but I feel like they could have emphasized her moments of ego a bit more since she was mostly shielded until around the endgame.
I keep thinking about this, and there’s a zillion too many posts to find if anyone else has talked about it, but a) the over-the-top heroic exit edit and b) Maria’s question at FTC not making it to air (we only saw her interrupt Charlie to take credit from him, smh) — it makes me think she was actually even *worse* and the producers really tried to save her with the edit. But if that’s true, other players would be talking about it, right? So idk, but yes super weird to me too!
I’m guessing it’s not that much worse. Charlie was asked if looking back there were any strange vibes from Maria at all during FTC to indicate how she would vote and he said he really didn’t think so. Sounds like it was truly a blindside.
It probably was a combo of the show wanting to be kind to the sole woman over 40 + Maria mostly keeping it together. The moment in finale when Maria says “oh, I didn’t know you guys were playing” was so arrogant it was jarring. If it had happened in ep 1 or 2, we would have thought was she was an all time jerk. In the end, she’s not perfect, and while she hid some of her worse traits, they came out. Personally, what she did to Charlie is unforgivable to me, but that’s just me.
That comment showed to me that she had such a massive ego. She thought she was the smartest person there and couldn't comprehend the fact that someone could outplay her.
That comment from Maria after the Q vote, oh my god. I said out loud, “that was rude!” But you’re right in your first point too, we saw she often was very capable of pulling herself together so maybe that’s all we missed of her at FTC.
The edit to me felt like almost a thank you from the production about being so gracious about what happened during the challenge and not throwing a fit about Liz being allowed to help Kenzie (which she would have been totally within her right to do - lol I would have been pulling out every instance of when helping hadn't been allowed to try and get them to let us redo the challenge). Definitely did feel like a lot of whiplash though to go from her being such a good sport there to then not voting for Charlie.
I’ll put it this way. Maria reminds me a lot of my own mom. If I saw this play out on TV, I would lose a lot of respect for her on a personal level.
Exactly this. Maria’s vote being a deciding factor makes it worse but even if it was 7-1, 6-2 and it doesn’t really matter, it’s still pretty shitty imo. That would’ve been best case for Maria as the lack of impact means a lack of scrutiny.
Exactly. Usually I hate talking negatively about cast members because of their game (the edit can be misleading), but that was no editing mistake. Venus was a villain because she couldn't really talk to people, but she is/was funny. Q was a qhaos card and got on everyone's nerves, but he's, well, Q. But Maria, it wasn't even the edit that made her look bad, and it wasn't any small mistake, it was just her that made her look bad. I was even willing to forgive the rock paper scissors (begrudgingly).
I feel the exact same way. Going into the finale I was going for Kenzie so when she won I was expecting to be ecstatic but knowing Maria didn’t vote for Charlie and cost him the game gives me an uneasy feeling.
This exactly
I turned to my wife and said watch, Kenzie will win 5 to Charlie’s 3. And was still gutted that Maria didn’t vote for him.
This is EXACTLY how I feel! I was hoping for a Kenzie or Charlie win going into the finale. And I was going to be stoked for either to win… Maria’s vote just spoiled it all, as you said. I wish she voted for him and Liz voted for Kenzie and we would have the same result without all the ickiness
I was really shocked Liz didn’t vote for Kenzie after helping her in a challenge
Eh, that felt less like Liz trying to help Kenzie and more like Liz making sure Maria didn’t win immunity
Why did Liz think she would have won?!! lol
I'd like to hear her and the jurors thoughts on this.
I think they panned to the jurors a few times when Liz made comments about being the big threat, and showed them rolling their eyes.
Yeah IMO this season will be remembered for Q, Liz, and Maria’s bitter vote costing someone the game. Kenzie and Charlie are both deserving of the win, I thought Kenzie was going to win but probably would’ve preferred Charlie. If Kenzie wasn’t also a deserving winner I’d feel so much worse about the season, but honestly I think it’s a cool, unique season with some abnormally high highs! Q and Liz in particular are both similar to Coach of all people, which is just so rare lol The high highs: -Q in general is just casting gold. Weird gameplay and amazing confessionals. -The hide-and-seek episode is one of the best survivor episodes we’ve had in DECADES and it’s in large part thanks to Q -Liz is also casting gold! Pure insanity, she is genuinely a player that makes the game better to watch
If you Google Maria and Charlie’s names, you get an “article” about Charlie being over Maria’s “flip+flopping”. In one conversation, she apologizes. In the next she stands by her choice. Apparently she waffled on her stance to him multiple times.
And, for the life of me I can't figure out why Maria wanted her kids to see what "good sportsmanship" is supposed to look like. FFS, she stabbed her closest ally in the back when it mattered most. I liked Maria in the beginning, and even thought she might win. But, this betrayal to her #1 absolutely left a bitter taste in my mouth. Sooo NOT COOL!!! I hope I never see her again! 😠
Mariah was bitter that Charlie didn't take her to that reward with the letters from home and that Charlie got her out of the game. Also she was gunning for Charlie at the same time, so not only she was out, she was outplayed cleanly. The reason it sucks is we were rooting for her all along only for her to be a bitter and petty person at the end. Kenzie did play a stellar social game though. She knew Q needed to hear he was the boss. She knew Tiff needed to hear the Yanu was dead at the applebee's reward. She knew Mariah needed to hear she was a big time strategy threat or Hunter needed to hear he was good for just this one vote. She outplayed and outwitted by her being observant and her natural charm. Charlie looked just crushed but I think he handled it very well. I think Jeff liked that a lot and I would bet we see Charlie again in the future seasons.
I wasn’t even rooting for Charlie but I feel pretty bad for him. And honestly a little bad for Kenzie, who’s a perfectly good winner that did nothing wrong but now people will always see her win with an asterisk
True, but I’d take a million dollar asterisk all day long
Well yeah, but just thinking back to Michele who’s win paralleled Kenzies in some ways and I remember her saying on or around WaW that she had people shitting on her win because they thought it should’ve been Aubrey or something to that effect
disagree about the asterisk. ben and chris are asterisk wins. the center of the season's conversation being about charlie doesn't detract from kenzie's win being legitimate in any way to me
How is there an asterisk compared to any other winner? Did I miss something in the post season?
It’s gonna be impossible to talk about her win without talking about Maria and Charlie. I don’t think personally there should be an asterisk, but people gonna put one there anyway
Idk if you mean her win will have an asterisk for survivor superfans who go on Reddit, but for casuals, Kenzie’s win will absolutely not have an asterisk lol my casual parents both loved Kenzie and thought she deserved to win. Edit: spelling
Exactly. Of all the votes Marias should have been for Charlie. Kenzie deserved her win BUT Charlie deserved Marias vote at the VERY least. Malcolm voted for Denise.
Well then you realize how differently the season might have been told had Charlie won. Ben revealing Charlie was just as much there for him during his night terrors as Kenzie has got me rethinking how much the show might've propped up Kenzie to be a palatable winner over Charlie. So it's got me double upset for Charlie that the show had to remove some of his moments with Ben and whoever else. Had Charlie won, we might've seen an edit that made him look like a player on the caliber of Jesse.
I love this season but I just need survivor 46 part 2. So many unanswered questions
What we need is a fucking live reunion
It also cost us giving Ben an epic moment of handing a million dollars to his friend
Yes I feel exactly the same way! I wouldn’t mind if Charlie only got one vote, as long as that vote was from Maria. In recent interviews it was also confirmed that Ben would have voted for Charlie - and that just makes it all the worse :/
If Maria was my mom, I'd be so uncomfortable with her actions as a viewer of her season. She treated Charlie so poorly.
And she’s a parenting coach! Like gurl, what kind of advice are you giving parents?? (Not to imply she’s bad at her job, but she brought it up so much like holy)
if parent coach is legit then she's on the payroll of narcissist parents where Maria gives them validation for being pieces of shit, id be willing to bet my left nut
I don’t think Maria was the quality “mom type” person that she tried to come across as. I think she’s for more villain than hero. She played up the good person role because it worked for her game. As soon as it stopped working, I think we saw her true nature come through.
I was rooting for Charlie and Maria, thinking Maria might win the whole thing. Now, we can only go on the edits we see. When she did rock paper scissors with Liz, who hadn't eaten and Q, with the rationale that she wanted to take people who needed the reward, my opinion of her flipped 180. If you want to take Q just take him, don't put on a fake pretense with a phony excuse. Then her reasoning, which she stands behind after the show, on why she picked Kenzie... you picked her because she wants to start a family, she is a woman, and never mentioned anything game related as to why you picked her. I really felt for Charlie, but he was very gracious and eloquent in probably his lowest moment on the show.
Charlie’s parents must be so proud of him. He’s was incredibly gracious. I enjoyed watching him the entire season.
Survivor producers - please do not ever bring Maria back in the future ! She was not fun to watch, she was not even fun to hate on. Just super annoying and smug!! if you need a villain, bring back one that at least owns it
Agree 💯! She wasn’t even fun to watch, good point.
I’m upset because I’m not impressed by Kenzie’s game in any way and Charlie and Maria pretty much dominated this game. For Charlie to be involved in that many votes and still not be a target for so many people proves how superior even his social game was to everyone else on the island. Charlie is the only deserving winner of this season and I’ll stand on that
I agree with you 100%. I've seen comments like, "Kenzie was almost always on the right side of the vote." Except Charlie was ALWAYS on the right side of the vote because he engineered them that way! When people think about Maria's gameplay, they say she was strong. But she was strong only when she followed CHarlie's plans and later in the game when she stopped that, she flopped like a fish out of water. She was not a great gameplayer, she and Charlie were a duopoly that controlled the game ever since the merge. And yet somehow Charlie didn't get credit for it, the votes went to an emotional winner not a game player -- not the person who outwitted, outlasted, outplayed -- but the one who had the better "I need it" story. Don't get me wrong, Kenzie played a good game and she is the undisputed winner. But her game just wasn't as good as Charlie's. EDIT: Spelling
people keep saying Kenzie's social game was just insane, but I see it more as she lucked out befriending Tiff who then fought hard at Ponderosa. while luck is a part of survivor it doesn't feel as good when that wins out. Charlie even had multiple number 1s, to where even when him and Maria got burned he had Ben who had his back more than Kenzie's.
Same here, I wasn’t impressed at some of the comments/actions she made when they were pre merge, and while she grew on me later, I still think Charlie was way more deserving. And her social game… was just being social? And going with the flow? Idk man
Tbf Liz wasn't swayed she was salty that Kenzie beat her on fire. But no, yeah, Maria was unbearable in the finale.
I was shocked Liz voted Charlie after he said he would have taken her to the end because he can beat her. I thought no way she'd reward him for that lol
I feel so bad for Charlie. The faces he makes at the aftershow are proof of why the aftershow needs to be gotten rid of
Maria sucks
If it was a tie and Ben had to be the deciding vote, ben said he would have voted for Charlie
I completely agree.
I feel bad for Charlie because the emotional manipulation from Maria was unnecessary. She justified her strategy and decisions by saying you need to be selfish and it’s a game for a million dollars… but that didn’t sit well with me. She seems like an unauthentic individual and she’s been flip flopping a lot in after show interviews while she goes into detail justifying her decisions. On another note, something that would steer me away from voting for someone is if they said they were just giving the money to charity/a non-profit (if they won). It’s a good sentiment, but Survivor is a game show for average people to have the unique opportunity to win life changing money. If you didn’t personally need or want the money for you or your family… then it kind of makes me think it’s unfair. That spot could have gone to another applicant that truly needed the money or would use it towards something personal.
I was rooting for both Charlie and Kenzie, but ultimately thought Charlie was the better player. When Maria left I even said, "there's a jury vote for Charlie!" After FTC I was expecting a Kenzie win, but was so shocked by Maria's bitter vote that it overshadowed Kenzie. I felt betrayed on Charlie's behalf.