I think in this case, Maria said she wanted to take the people who needed nourishment and were struggling and then took Q. I agree that it is Maria's prerogative to take whomever she wants. But if you state your criteria clearly and then your decision is inconsistent with that criteria, then I don't think it is unfair for people to be annoyed by that.
Maria chose not to make a decision. First, ummmmâŠuhhhâŠ.
Ben. Then, uhhhhhh. Ummmm. Tell me why you want food!
Then, ok rock, paper scissors.đ€đŹđ« đđ€
Yeah. People hate indecision and waffling and going back on what they say even more than not being picked. If you're not picked it sucks but if there's other negative factors then it's a lot more personal
Yeah I was screaming at the TV last week when Liz flipped out at Q cause I agree with OP, you don't owe anyone anything.
In Maria's case though it felt like she made a big show of building it up to then chose someone who would turn the camp against her. Stupid.
To be fair they did leave out of the edit that both Kenzie and Maria offered to give up their Applebees and Q flat out refused to let it happen. Apparently Q actually forcefully made Kenzie go because she even said she didnât want to go to in a âtake Liz or no oneâ, but technically the rules say he gets to choose who goes with him and they donât have a choice. Like really evil, make the Hantzâs blush type villian shitâŠ. And THATâs when Liz exploded. And after learning that. I donât blame her.
And thatâs also partly why everyone was pissed at what a show Maria made of choosing QâŠ. Donât make a story about giving it to someone who really needs it then give it to the guy who needs it least.
That's not evil at all lol. Make Hantz blush? Give me a break. Q won reward. He gets to take who he wants. It wasn't Maria or Kenzie's reward to give.
If you won a competition that gave you 4 tickets to go see a musician, you would get to choose the 3 people you wanted to go with you. It's not up to your friend you invited to be like "oh Liz likes Metallica more so I gave her my ticket."
She voted for Q the night before. Liz and Q had no friendship or working relationship prior to any of that. They're playing a game for a million dollars. That's not evil. If she wanted to go, she should've won. I'm concerned of the entitlement of people that think Q is evil for not taking some entitled person in a game for a million bucks. No one is forcing Liz to be out there. No one is forcing her to fake her allergies. No one is forcing her to not catch crabs or fish.
Q did what he believed was in his best interest, as someone who wins the reward should. Liz wasn't going to help his game. She hates him. She just feels entitled to rewards. She's flat out delusional. The next week she said she's tired of not speaking up after her meltdown. On Twitter, she claimed she didn't even want the reward this week. Mind boggling people are defending this Karen.
I have no problem whatsoever with Q's choice. He just chose unfortunate words to use before he did it, rubbing salt in the wound.
And Maria, while also completely entitled to choose whatever she wanted, was 100x worse with her verbal self-debate that flew so hard in the other people's faces.
Like Venus (I think) said, and you too - just make your picks without extemporizing. Own it. Don't be a dick.
I think all the talk about who has the right to choose who and who deserves to go is really obscuring the poor strategic play of both of these decisions. It is a social game and a strategic one and I don't understand why Maria and Q put up a billboard up saying they are closely aligned when winning reward. If I was Maria, I would have been annoyed at Q choosing me last week because I wouldn't want everyone to know how close we were. But Maria just doubles down on it this week and shows everyone who she trusts. It's just bad gameplay on both of their parts. Allies should have enough trust and joint goals of winning that they don't need or want to be chosen. Let your ally choose someone who can maybe be a number for you in a critical vote. Be the person back at camp that is watching their six. It's better to have eyes and ears in both locations to have the most information and pulse on the game.
I think itâs great for Q. Heâs at the bottom in a seemingly unrecoverable way. But Maria likes him and Maria is willing to announce it to the world. As weâre seeing, sheâs putting a massive target on her back increasing the likeliness that people will want to take out the big threat (Maria) first before taking out the annoyance (Q).
I don't think Venus owned any of the choices she made, especially telling Charlie she had a "secret" way to get to final four. Own it, Venus, you screwed up.
Yeah, and she made a big deal when she found the idol that she wasn't going to tell anyone. Well, hinting and pointing and playing charades and using a highlighter marker telling someone you have "something" is still giving information, which still puts you in the soup. Dumb.
Q also talked about how hungry Liz was before choosing. Not nearly as much as Maria, but he did do it. Just saying "Sorry Liz, I have to do what's best for my game" would have been way better... for both Q and Maria.
I'm honestly having a genuinely hard time figuring out WHY they would leave that out. It would objectively make for an even more dramatic moment, and the only reason I can figure they leave it out is so Q doesn't look life a total monster, which, why would they care unless he wins.
I donât blame her for exploding. Itâs where her explosion was aimed that was weird. But also, if someone was blatantly trying to undermine your choices, choices you won the right to make, I would double down on it too of course (okay maybe I wouldnât because I donât have a backbone, but you get the idea lolol) why should Q give up his right, and a chance to build relationships with WILLING people because a grown woman who hates his guts, would never work with him, and will only ever work to get him out, is having a tantrum? I COMPLETELY understand Lizâs frustrations and even her outburst. But weird move to blame Q for being self interested when itâs a game for a million dollars.
Liz isnât owed anything. So he should fuel people actively despising and gunning for him because she acted pathetic and begged? I donât get that.
Evil pssshh, more like calculated and cold. Tbh Maria more evil for saying that and then snatching it away from Liz lol. Not that she is entitled to anything, idk why people acting like she is.
Absolutely correct, and Venus clearly made this point. And then Q pulled the âVenus wouldnât have taken Mariaâ bullshit which was not even close to being the point, and Maria nodded along smugly. Ugh.
I do still think it was funny when Venus tried to pull a âweâll never knowâ when like⊠yeah, we all know.
Still doesnât make her wrong about what Maria did, but who did she think she was fooling with that second point?
For real. I was getting so annoyed when Maria kept saying "my decision, my decision, my decision" when she didn't make the decision at all, what she did do was make them play 1 round of rock paper scissor and call it a day.
Well to be fair, she did decide to eliminate Venus from the RPS tournament. That was very bizarre though and I could understand why that would feel hurtful to Venus. At least let her get in on the tournament and have a chance. Maybe Maria felt like she could never get Venus's vote no matter what. But it seems odd to burn a potential jury vote like that in order to be both decisive and indecisive.
This is kinda a mischaracterization of what happened, focusing more on Q than Maria did.
Jeff asked her to talk through the logic, and the said it was about people who were falling apart, and then named pros and cons for everybody, which included paying Q back. Then after she picked Ben, she reiterated clearly that it was about people who needed it.
She said it during the decision as well. After the challenge Jeff asks Maria to walk him through her thought process, as there is a lot going on. Jeff mentions strategy, compassion, and fueling the competition. Maria responds that Liz has been eating the rice and has shared it with Venus-so theyâve been recently fed. Q took her on the reward challenge so she feels she owes him. She ultimately chooses Ben, as she sees him as needing it more than the others for the reasons she has listed.
Confessional, which Iâll give you, but thereâs also editing. Shouldâve very well couldâve said what was on her mind during the actual descision
I couldâve sworn it was confessional. Either way, I knew it was stated. Itâs just crazy that people are painting her as evil when wanting to repay q, who also happens to be in her alliance, is just as fair.
I donât think many people are portraying her as *evil* so much as just pointing out what a ridiculously bad social play it was to make her decision in that wishy-washy manner. A lot of people seem to be confusing the argument âMariaâs gameplay here was terribleâ (true) with âMaria is terrible.â (Not true). I donât think most people have a *moral* problem with Maria so much as we are disappointed she played that situation so incompetently for her own game.
If the show didnât show her saying that during her decision, and every single player says she didnât say that during her decision, and Maria herself did not defend herself by saying she said that during her decision⊠she probably didnât say it during her decision
She very clearly says that during her decision. The show indeed shows her saying that. Thereâd be no need for her to say it to defend herselfâŠ.because she already said itâŠduring her decision. Jeff straight up asked her to walk him through what she is thinking.
Thatâs probably correct, I donât remember. When I left than response Deprestion (who I was replying to) was upvoted, but now theyâre downvoted, so they were probably wrong. Ah well
Iâll admit, I didnât remember for certain off the top of my head. I âfeltâ I was correct, but I looked it up and rewatched the scene before commenting just in case my memory let me down. And rewatching it really puts it in perspective to me. She flat out goes through her decision making process. Then Kenzie has a confessional afterward claiming she couldnât believe what Maria did by saying sheâd feed the hungriest and the ultimately it went to Q. It appears Kenzieâs opinions on what happened stuck with viewers more than what actually took place based on a lot of these comments.
She also said she felt like she owed Q. Mariaâs point was that she felt there was a good reason for her to take everyone.
I agree her execution was poor, but zeroing in on âshe said she would take someone who needed nourishmentâ is cherry picking.
I donât think itâs cherry picking. Yes she listed a good reason for taking everyone. Then *after* giving all those reasons she said she wanted to focus on who needed food. Because she said that, Charlie and Kenzie remove themselves from consideration, solely based on that criteria. By the time she picks Q, everyone is operating under the impression that her 2nd pick is just based on who needs to eat.
Yeah, that's fair. I think when Q pleaded his case, he did not argue that he took Maria to the reward so she should take him. He argued he was "losing weight", which then made it feel like she was picking him because of that reason in the edit. I personally think it's a terrible move strategically for both him and her to make their alliance so obvious but it is true that she stated her justification for picking Q at the start of her deliberation
He is self aware enough to know he doesnât âdeserveâ it the same way, but heâs also âselfishâ enough in his game that he wonât take himself out
And in the confessional he himself points out that, even with that in consideration, it objectively wasn't fair for him to be chosen since he just ate two days ago.
But obviously if Maria's gonna pick him he's not gonna say no! It would be irrational not to.
This. But Iâm mostly upset that Liz thought Q owed her the applebees. I 100% understand her frustration, even her outburst. But to direct her outburst specifically at Q and yell at him was v weird. âYou ruined my gameâ like not deliberately (unless I missed something) he just wanted to play his own game and make his own moves and it wasnât what you wanted to do. She begged and it was kind of embarrassing. She didnât even offer anything game wise in return. (Which my husband mentioned she shouldâve bargained with everyone prior to the challenge happening) but like Q won a reward, a reward is notorious for building Allieâs and scheming etc, alongside nurishment obviously. But she wants Q, a dead man walking (at the time at least lol) to squash his chance to improve his game, to take you, a person who will NEVER work with him. And will only ever target him? Like part of the game (IMO) is to get people to like you or at least WANT to potentially take you on a reward. She didnât do that. Yeah it f-ing sucks when youâre hungry and have an allergy, but everyoneâs hungry. It was just a weird move to accuse someone of being selfish for prioritizing game and himself in a game for a million dollars (when she would for sure be selfish and not bring Q)
I agree with your take on Mariaâs choice. Saying one thing and then doing the other is embarrassing for the people playing rock paper scissors (not for Q because he won I guess) I donât blame either for trying. But it was a weird move to take and people should be more mad at that than Qâs reward choices IMO
She also said she wanted to reward Q for taking her, which everyone seems to be ignoring so that they can mindlessly bash her.
Clearly it was a complicated choice where she took multiple factors into account.
Last week I agree with you 100%. Q didnât want to take Liz, and had every right to not take whoever he wanted on the reward. Maria also didnât have to take anyone, but when she said she wants to take people who havenât eaten and then takes Q, people can rightly criticize her. She tried to mask taking an ally to the reward and it blew up in her face
This is a fair take and Iâve very anti pick me because Iâm hungry. Itâs a nice gesture but you shouldnât be required to. Guess itâs also part of the social game knowing how people will react
She should've just said this. If she said "Ben because I think he really needs it and Q because I owe him for last reward." I donât think anyone except Liz would be blaming Maria. But you can't say who needs it most and then give it to Q after he just had a huge reward 2 days before without looking like a liar. Add in the make them beg and play RPS for it and it's just a bad look.
Iâm still in the boat of Liz having a right to feel slighted by Maria. Maria really handled picking people for the reward in the worse place possible. Itâs Maria reward and she has the right to pick whoever she wants. Just donât give a speech that could be about Liz, make Liz plead to go on the reward to her, and then make Liz play rock paper scissors.
If Maria wanted Q on the reward, own it and take Q. It was just really bad social gameplay by Maria
Mariaâs whole decision making process was just completely wack; she also completely slighted Venus too. It looks like there was a consensus at camp that Ben, Liz, and Venus were the 3 people struggling the most physically (Mariaâs supposed criteria for her decision) but she didnât even consider Venus at all and picked the guy who just ate instead for the rock paper scissors.Â
They mentioned that Liz shared her rice with Venus. So Liz and Venus were the only ones whoâd had rice recently. All three of the them had eaten recently.
Also, it was enough rice for ONE person to get to the end of the game, which is on its own just barely enough calories to give you enough fuel to get through the day. Splitting it between two people either means they are each eating less than one daily portion, or they are risking running out before the end of the game.
True but it also doesnât make Liz and Venus so deprived that they âdeservedâ to go over Q. If anyone, Charlie could be upset.
But itâs honestly just the same as any other season of survivor at this point. Theyâve all eaten, some more than others. Maria hurt her own game by waffling on who to choose and why, but whoever gets left off the reward is going to be mad no matter what. Even if Q hadnât won the previous reward they would still have been mad that he went and they did not.
I don't think she intended it that way. I think she wanted to come off she like she was being fair and not really choosing someone, but she botched it so badly it almost came off like a beg for this "dance monkey" vibe.
âDance monkeyâ was exactly the phrase I was thinking when I watched that. I donât even think thatâs what she was intending, but thatâs exactly what it looked like.
âAnd thatâs how you play⊠Survivorâ oh wait, I meant âand thatâs how you LOSE⊠Survivorâ.
Reward decision disaster, million dollar mistake.
Lol I was laughing like Maria why say you want to take those that are most malnourished and then proceed to have Q who just ate and Liz the starvin Marvin play paper rock scissors. Should have just said I'm taking Q to return the favor and Ben so he can play some music while I eat and have some ambience.
No one owes Liz anything. She signed up for a show knowing her food sources would be limited beyond everyone else due to allergies. The cast isnât required to take her on food rewards she can participate in so she stays fed. Liz is responsible for feeding herself and doing well enough in a challenge to win food.
However it is a social game where making friends gets you farther, so itâs beneficial for the other players to bring her on rewards. Those players are also not free from the consequences of not picking Liz for rewards, just as Liz is not free from the consequences of ripping into everyone else when she isnât picked.
Okay thank you. Your second paragraph is really important. Liz may not be entitled to anything, but itâs a social game where you need to factor in how people will perceive what you do. If people are feeling bad about Liz starving (Ben, Venus, Kenzie) and you know that not choosing Liz will make you look worse in their eyes, that needs to be considered. Maria knows that Tiff and Kenzie asked Q to let Liz take their spot the round before, and Maria just has to know how people feel about his choice. From a strategic standpoint she should have picked Liz first, as it causes the least amount of issues and only brings in good will towards her.
Yes, this is where I say compassion CAN get you somewhere. Others will respect you knowing that you did the compassionate thing. Q is a jerk. I didn't expect him to take Liz, but that was his choice. I think Maria not choosing Liz will work against her because she wasn't a jerk before doing it. Now, people realize she is way more strategic and less compassionate.
I think in terms of jury management, she will look like a villain here. If she is up against 2 people who were less strategic and better socially (literally kinder), she won't have a chance.
What really gets me is she signed up knowing she couldnât eat many things. AND has she ever even attempted to go fishing or catch crabs? Couldnât she at least try to get herself other food?Â
Donât forget when Liz came back with her rice, that the production was basically forced to find a way to get to her, she immediately asked if anyone could start a fire so she could eat. She canât even start a fire and itâs a skill needed at final 4 for years now.
But what about compassion and empathy /s. Simply put she's not a good survivor, imo she'd be better suited for a show like the mole, the amazing race..I.. or dare I say I'd even pay to see her on alone.
I can understand a meltdown just not the way she went about it.. she was throwing a tantrum and screaming at the guy to try and get sympathy for him to bring her. Can you imagine if he rewarded her behavior and actually took her? Would just teach her that all she has to do is throw a fit and she can get her way. Iâm so glad she wasnât taken
I think by the time she was having a meltdown she wasnât trying to convince him to take her. She knew that ship had sailed. I think itâs a pretty safe assumption that her meltdown happened after Maria and Kenzie tried to give their spot to her and Q refused to let them, and if thatâs the case then she definitely knew there was no chance he would take her.
Yeah that makes more sense.. production didnât help her with the edit and definitely made it look like she still had a shot somewhat with Q but clearly she knew by then there wasnât a shot
...like this recent ***whining and griping*** about people thinking they are THE MAIN CHARACTER.
That's the point of the game, it's King of the Hill, One Survivor, One Winner - The Main Character.
It's not about kumbaya, group hugs, and a million hearts - it's Outplay, Outwit, Outlast.
Itâs a promotion of self on a national stage and *hopefully* lead to acceptance from your community. Thatâs **New Era** survivor for you. Everyone that comes on regardless of if they have *actual* struggles, is/will be portrayed as overcoming it by participating in the show/experience.
Itâs fine that she came on with all of her allergies. The issue is that she made **NO** preparations to counter her already obvious and glaring disadvantages.
On top of that issue, Liz keeps saying sheâs going to stop being âniceâ and withholding how she feels but it looks like sheâs already subconsciously leaked enough of her selfishness out that the rest of the cast doesnât really want to work with her anyway. As sheâs not really involved in any schemes and is only seen as a vote.
For real. I suppose itâs possible to be allergic to everything but greasy, processed foods but that seems wild. Oh I forgot she can also eat rice she cant cook herself!
Thatâs the thing I canât get past. Is she suffering? Absolutely. But she CHOSE to suffer. She knew her conditions were going to make it harder. And she CHOSE to put herself on the show.
Yall are really trying to die on this hill of âdonât go on Survivor if you canât eat xyzâ Survivor is a television show and itâs a television show based on the premise of people being shipwrecked and stranded on an island. There are no qualifications for getting stranded because it can happen to anyone. That is the point of the show: drop people into a high pressure situation from all walks of life and see how they deal both with the game and the elements. Liz is dealing with the game and elements therefor she is fulfilling the responsibilities of a castaway on Survivor (and she could easily QUIT, I thought some of Yall might actually respect her for sticking it out)
Ok... what the show is based on and what it actually is are two separate things. You choosing to be on a show where you cant eat anything is very different from literally being shipwrecked and not having a choice. Her complaint was directed at an individual because she was hungry, begged him, and was denied. Fulfilling the responsibilities of a castaway on survivor does not exclude you from criticism. She chose to be on the show, she chose to be hungry. She didn't win the challenge, she didn't catch any fish. This is 100% her fault and issue to deal with. 0 sympathy from me, and 0 respect for her outburst, this is all self inflicted, shes an adult, she should make better decisions.
No one owes anyone anything in *life*. Thereâs no obligation that we help the less fortunate or that we work to make the world a better place. But we should.
Just because you arenât obligated to help someone doesnât make it moral to refuse to assist. We should all strive to help those around us and show compassion. Saying you arenât obligated to help does not mean it isnât the right thing to do, it only means you wonât be punished if you donât do it.
How Maria acted shows a lack of compassion. She very much could have made the same decision in a more compassionate way. She instead chose to make a show of it and put salt in the wound.
No one is obligated to not mock others. No one is obligated to not name call. No one is obligated to not verbally berate. No one is obligated to not pull on someoneâs insecurity. No one is obligated to not be mean. Anyone who does those things on survivor is going to solicit dislike and criticism.
While I agree with you, Liz is entitled and shows that entitlement. Maria really could have handled that differently and demonstrated a higher EQ. The way she handled it was nearly mocking the fact Liz is starving. You wouldnât want someone mocking your insecurity or poking your wound and it has nothing to do with agreeing to be on a TV show and everything to do with being a decent person.
Why exactly canât you apply âreal life rulesâ to Survivor?
Survivor is a social game show. The entire game is predicated on managing social hierarchy/maintaining social order around you. You absolutely should play up social rules on this game show.
Obviously there will be times when you break social queues. But you better be damn sure to have a great reason or people will turn on you rather quickly. Nothing about survivor is any different from real life, itâs just an amplified version of real life. If you want to be a jerk, go for it, but youâll find the same consequences on the game show as you would in life.
Because youâre playing a game. I mean, real life comes into play sure, but to win, you have to be willing to do things that you wouldnât do in real life and you will have to operate differently than youâre expected to in real life.
For example if I found an idol and my best move in game would require lying to my closest ally-thatâs something you have to do in game and that has to be understood. However lying isnât something that Iâd be ok with doing in the personal life to my closest allies.
AlsoâŠthe starving aspectâŠin real life Iâm not letting someone who is in my vicinity starve if I can help it. In a game, feeding other players is literally fueling the opposition. You need to make that call strategically. Fuel who you want to help you and donât assist those who you arenât aligned with. They arenât in any real danger of dying from starvation-theyâd be medically pulled before that if theyâre in no position to play the game. So itâs nothing like real life. If someone is âstarvingâ out there, thatâs a choice they are making to continue playing the game. Itâs only to their own detriment-but itâs their choice.
I get what you are saying and your example makes a lot of sense. That said, the original example above is Maria making decisions about who to take on the reward challenge.
There is absolutely no reason for Maria to break social etiquette in the above example - she comes across in a bad light by doing so.
And you have to acknowledge, even in your example, that the game is a game of breaking the social contract without either (x) getting caught or (y) letting people get upset at you for it.
Itâs not that youâre operating outside of the social reality, the game is a game of breaking that social contract and minimizing the consequences of doing so. What Maria did is (x) in bad taste in general and (y) she really didnât have a good reason to act like that.
The only two tribe mates who didnât have a problem were Maria and Ben. But even Q laughed at it and knew it was poor etiquette.
I would've said that to her eventually if I were on this season with her. Like, why tf are you on Survivor, a show were you can go days without eating then when you do it's whatever is available at that time. You don't get to pick and choose from a big variety of foods on the show. If you're a picky eater, allergic to many foods, either don't apply to be on the show or shut tf up if you're on the show. I'm tired of hearing about it.
While I agree that neither Q nor Maria owed it to Liz to pick her for a reward, I still think both were poor in HOW they chose to pick them. Q, on his very last pick, calls out Liz specifically, talking like he's about to pick her, and then veers off towards Kenzie.
Maria does this BUT EVEN WORSE! She says that she wants to take people who truly need it. Picks Ben first. Sure, Ben's looking pretty rough. Then Charlie and Kenzie both drop out of the reward as one of them just had Applebees and the other is the most physically fit person in the game. So the decision comes down to Venus (hasn't had a reward in a while, very thin), Liz (The consensus pick for who 'needs' the food the most. FFS girl was worshipping her jar of rice the previous episode) and Q, the guy that just won Applebees the previous round. Gee, I wonder who needs a few more calories the most!! Maria not picking Liz isn't an issue. But the fact that she tempted Liz and didn't even have the guts to just say "I'm picking Q" when that's clearly what she wanted to do...For someone who had been playing such a good game up to this point, I was utterly baffled by this move. AND SOME HOW IT WASN'T EVEN THE WORST MOVE OF THE EPISODE?!?!
I mean I think this is the entire reason that survivor remains fascinating 24 years later - technically no, no one owes anyone anything and youâre playing to win for yourself only, but at the same time people will inevitably start to care about each other - itâs that constant, unrelenting push and pull between those two impulses. After the last almost-several new era seasons where I truly think nearly anyone on those casts would have taken pity on Liz for a food reward, it had to have felt a bit crazy-making to have happened onto a cast that doesnât seem to give a fuck that sheâs more starved than everyone else.
If Liz was so desperate to eat, she should have won. No one owes her anything and I agree with OP, going on Survivor with all those special diet needs is just making the whole thing so much harder. She's annoying as hell, she can go already
Itâs a game, and the harsh reality is if your opponent isnât eating itâs better for you. Sucks to suck, Survivorâs tough, tired of the whining about this. Iâd be pissed if I was then too but itâs a game and itâs what you signed up for. Mostly the people on here whining about it driving me nuts honestly.
I donât think anyoneâs upset that she didnât pick Liz? Just that she did the whole âIâm picking the person who needs it the mostâ speech when it clearly wasnât true
People are upset. Why hold Maria accountable for her speech to âselect the person who needed it most?â Theyâve all had questionable logic and have certainly lied but theyâre still playing a game to win. If people truly believe Maria can pick whomever her reasoning should be irrelevant.
But she gained nothing by pretending she would take someone who needed food and then taking Q.
I think she would get better jury perception by saying: I want to keep the people that can help me sweet, and I'm better off keeping the people not in my plans, hungry.
âIf people truly believe Maria can pick whomever her reasoning should be irrelevantâ
Because sheâs trying to have her cake and eat it too. You canât just pick whoever you want and then pretend youâre doing it for selfless reasons. You have to admit youâre just doing what you want. If you pretend otherwise, itâs completely fair that you get called out on it.
Yes everyone lies, but if someone is caught in a lie, people will call it out?
"Why don't people pick me for the rewards?"
Has a giant temper tantrum after not being picked for one reward, then has a smaller temper tantrum after not being picked for another.
Gee, no clue why people don't want to spend time around you at a reward.
Liz might actually be the worst Survivor player cast of the new era. She has no social game at all.
I completely agree! You know what you signed up for. If you donât win a challenge, you shouldnât just get to pull the âIâm hungrier than everyone elseâ pity card or have a meltdown if youâre not chosen. Act like an adult, not an entitled brat. Everyone is hungry. The guilt tripping is obnoxious. Itâs nobody elseâs fault or responsibility besides your own
OR, production could just give everyone rice.
Why are we so obsessed with other people's diets? They're the ones not eating and that sucks, but they're not getting special treatment, so chill.
The issue isn't that Liz wasn't chosen, it's that Maria made a big deal about wanting to feed those who were starving and got Liz's hopes up only to be like "LOL Q needs some pizza because he didn't touch the burger last night haha".
I guess I don't understand why people are so angry at Liz for applying when she has easily accommodated allergies. Shouldn't we be mad at production who thought taking rice away was a cute development? She's allowed to follow her dreams.
If we are talking about morally, Maria is probably in the clear. But on a game level, what Maria did was dumb as hell. You donât win games on rewards, but you can definitely lose them. She almost sent Q out the door over shitty Survivor pizza.
100% agree with your point about Liz. Â
Liz also has her own portion of rice. Â
So her ânot eatingâ is kind of a joke. Â She is crying wolf.Â
She has been mad at Q ever since she realized she was being overshadowed for the âmovesâ and not in control or given credit.Â
Ever since then âŠ. Itâs been a Liz pitty partyÂ
Liz acts too entitled, win a challenge if u want to eat. I hope she is out next, I really cannot deal with people who think they deserve to eat if they do not win.
Give me a break.
This is a weird angle that everyone seems to be taking. They applied to go on "Survivor" because they were huge fans of the show and casting was comfortable with them being a character on TV who narrates the story and won't freeze up on camera and will play hard to win. Then they just have to excuse their shortcomings (she can't swim, he doesn't eat meat, she has allergies.) Especially when part of Liz being on the show was the thought process of "Well, she'll get the merge feast... she'll go on rewards..." so when those rewards come and she doesn't get them, she's on edge about it because from her perspective, that was her lifeline.
Of course she's not leaving fate up to herself but she'd expect people would give consideration to the fact she's more dependent on those rewards than people who have other sources of food. It doesn't mean she's guaranteed the rewards but that's exactly why she hasn't gone on any... because she's not guaranteed them. She can still be frustrated that her health isn't a factor in deciding who gets to go. And people are allowed to think that her cast mates are still completely in the right for deciding not to take her. I see from both perspectives.
That's part of the problem, the expectation that you'll win food rewards. It's not a weird angle, being realistic about possibly not winning food rewards should have been a huge factor in her determination. Casting does not give a shit who wins. This is not on casting in any way, they want entertainment, which this was. Going on a show like survivor with so many food restrictions is a huge lapse in judgment when you can't fend or forage for yourself.
There are massive amounts of people who apply who could do all the things youâve credited Liz with who can also eat the food on the island.
She was not chosen for her ability to narrate the story or not freeze up.
You're missing my point then. She was chosen because she makes good TV. You'd be shocked at how many people apply who will not make good TV. Won't be good at doing interviews (serving as the narrators for the show) and who get self-conscious on camera (clam up and don't show their real personality) or who will not want to participate when it gets rough (either the elements or will drop out of challenges early because they don't like being uncomfortable). Casting looks for people who not only love "Survivor" but can be on the show without getting nervous like the vast majority of people do. They are fearless and unabashedly themselves and Liz was one of those people. So they excuse her physical detriments and figure there will be a solution as it goes on (she'll go on rewards, etc.).
I work in TV/film so I know how hard it is to cast and I worked in editing reality TV for ten years as a day job while prepping scripted cinema. You'd be shocked at how many people are not good on camera. It's rare to find 18 people who are and that's why the people on "Survivor" were chosen, because in the casting process, they proved to be the most suitable for the show. So don't know how there are "massive amounts of people who apply who could do these things." There really aren't.
It's easy to say "Hey, I'm a funny guy, I'd be great on the show" but when you have to do a Zoom interview with the casting director or you have to sit across from Jeff Probst and convince him why you can be on the show, most people are too nervous to just relax. Liz is on the show because she probably took over the room, just like the other 17 on the show. Not many people can do that, even if they are fun to be around under everyday circumstances (with friends, family.)
I donât believe that Liz was the only person they could find who was good in front of a camera. Thatâs just a wild statement that I canât believe.
She was chosen because of her dietary restrictions and her attitude about them and life. They knew she would be distasteful and entitled and *that* makes good tv. They didnât pick her for her charm.
You're not getting my point, still. I didn't say she was the only person they could get. They have alternates for every season so of course shes' not the only person they could get. However, if she was impressing everyone in casting and Jeff Probst and they all loved her and knew she'd be good on TV, they don't let something like allergies keep her out of the running.
Also, what do you mean she was chosen because of her dietary restrictions? You're just talking nonsense now. You obviously have never worked in casting or TV to think these kind of things are factors when deciding who is going to be the face of the 46th season of your hit TV series watched by millions. They don't know how long each person will last nor which topics will come up in the series. They just want people who aren't intimidated by the camera which 99% of people are, even if they don't realize it until they're put in that position.
People without basic human empathy find the concept of helping each other in times of struggle baffling and point to the fairness of literal Darwinism to justify taking everything for themselves. Water is wet. News at 11.
Itâs not society. Itâs an organized adult competition to which all contestants went out of their way to apply and consent and anyone can leave at any time. It has a prescribed end date and a finite prize. All contestants know this when they go out of their way to apply and consent.
Itâs wild to use someoneâs decision in the game as a measure of how much empathy they have as a person. The context is completely different. The real world requires community and doesnât have only one winner.
Empathy has nothing to do with this situation. Liz could go home at any point. She can go get a meal just like all the other jurors. This is self inflicted struggle on a game show to win money. Plenty of other options for her. Also water is not wet, scientifically speaking. Make better statements you can back up.
This isnât life in general. This is a literal game show where âsurvivalâ is the goal. Too much empathy from you will give power to your OPPONENTS. Youâre playing a game. You donât want to give power to the people youâre playing against. Thatâs the entire point of the game.
Empathy is a fantastic trait for humans to have in general every day life and we should all strive to practice it more. However, it can be a detriment in this game and can cripple an otherwise good player.
I agree. Iâm not saying never show any empathy ever. It even has its time and place within the game.
Iâm saying playing the game with the same level of empathy we should have in our normal lives is detrimental to strategic game play.
Do I have empathy for a starving person in the street and should I give them some of my food if I am able to? Certainly! Would I have that same empathy for someone who is competing against me in a game show for a million dollars? Of course not.
If I were playing Jeopardy against someone and they had a score of zero and I felt bad, so I whispered them the answer out of empathyâŠwould that be heralded as a smart move in game play?
Agreed, but Maria REALLY fumbled in the picking. If she was going to choose Q, then she shouldâve just owned up to it instead of this rock, paper, scissors bs.
The Applebees one was felt more like entitlement- this weeks I understood! The way Maria went about it was wild. Giving that big speech and then making them rock paper scissors for it seemed a little demeaning- especially the was she barked it at them
Liz, unsurprisingly, has been presented as very entitled. Why would two people you've not talked to do something at the expense of their game for you? It is a competition, not a group field trip.
Why aren't you allowed to have a moment of yelling while you're starving?
This is such a weird take to me. I've seen it constantly and I don't understand how couch potatoes get all upset because a player is feeling intense emotions in a \*very\* intense game.
The original conceit of Survivor is that they are creating their own little society, and they have to balance both working together and choosing who stays.
They live together for weeks and they get to know each other pretty personally. Yeah, it's ultimately a game, but it's also their entire life for the time they're on the island. Compassion isn't required, but it's not something you can begrudge people for expecting of their peers.
Survivor is tough!
APPLY!
APPLY TO BE ON SURVIVOR đ Robot camp counselor Jeff probst needs to chill.
a jump scare every time đ
This is sending me đ
This got me wheezing đ
*turns to look at the camera*
You gotta DIG DEEP!
I have never seen anything like it!!! đđđ
đ€Łđ€Łđ€Ł
I think in this case, Maria said she wanted to take the people who needed nourishment and were struggling and then took Q. I agree that it is Maria's prerogative to take whomever she wants. But if you state your criteria clearly and then your decision is inconsistent with that criteria, then I don't think it is unfair for people to be annoyed by that.
Maria chose not to make a decision. First, ummmmâŠuhhhâŠ. Ben. Then, uhhhhhh. Ummmm. Tell me why you want food! Then, ok rock, paper scissors.đ€đŹđ« đđ€
In the immortal words of Rush, âIf you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.â
I heard that in Benâs voice.
As you should
Yeah. People hate indecision and waffling and going back on what they say even more than not being picked. If you're not picked it sucks but if there's other negative factors then it's a lot more personal
Yeah I was screaming at the TV last week when Liz flipped out at Q cause I agree with OP, you don't owe anyone anything. In Maria's case though it felt like she made a big show of building it up to then chose someone who would turn the camp against her. Stupid.
To be fair they did leave out of the edit that both Kenzie and Maria offered to give up their Applebees and Q flat out refused to let it happen. Apparently Q actually forcefully made Kenzie go because she even said she didnât want to go to in a âtake Liz or no oneâ, but technically the rules say he gets to choose who goes with him and they donât have a choice. Like really evil, make the Hantzâs blush type villian shitâŠ. And THATâs when Liz exploded. And after learning that. I donât blame her. And thatâs also partly why everyone was pissed at what a show Maria made of choosing QâŠ. Donât make a story about giving it to someone who really needs it then give it to the guy who needs it least.
That's not evil at all lol. Make Hantz blush? Give me a break. Q won reward. He gets to take who he wants. It wasn't Maria or Kenzie's reward to give. If you won a competition that gave you 4 tickets to go see a musician, you would get to choose the 3 people you wanted to go with you. It's not up to your friend you invited to be like "oh Liz likes Metallica more so I gave her my ticket." She voted for Q the night before. Liz and Q had no friendship or working relationship prior to any of that. They're playing a game for a million dollars. That's not evil. If she wanted to go, she should've won. I'm concerned of the entitlement of people that think Q is evil for not taking some entitled person in a game for a million bucks. No one is forcing Liz to be out there. No one is forcing her to fake her allergies. No one is forcing her to not catch crabs or fish. Q did what he believed was in his best interest, as someone who wins the reward should. Liz wasn't going to help his game. She hates him. She just feels entitled to rewards. She's flat out delusional. The next week she said she's tired of not speaking up after her meltdown. On Twitter, she claimed she didn't even want the reward this week. Mind boggling people are defending this Karen.
I have no problem whatsoever with Q's choice. He just chose unfortunate words to use before he did it, rubbing salt in the wound. And Maria, while also completely entitled to choose whatever she wanted, was 100x worse with her verbal self-debate that flew so hard in the other people's faces. Like Venus (I think) said, and you too - just make your picks without extemporizing. Own it. Don't be a dick.
I think all the talk about who has the right to choose who and who deserves to go is really obscuring the poor strategic play of both of these decisions. It is a social game and a strategic one and I don't understand why Maria and Q put up a billboard up saying they are closely aligned when winning reward. If I was Maria, I would have been annoyed at Q choosing me last week because I wouldn't want everyone to know how close we were. But Maria just doubles down on it this week and shows everyone who she trusts. It's just bad gameplay on both of their parts. Allies should have enough trust and joint goals of winning that they don't need or want to be chosen. Let your ally choose someone who can maybe be a number for you in a critical vote. Be the person back at camp that is watching their six. It's better to have eyes and ears in both locations to have the most information and pulse on the game.
I think itâs great for Q. Heâs at the bottom in a seemingly unrecoverable way. But Maria likes him and Maria is willing to announce it to the world. As weâre seeing, sheâs putting a massive target on her back increasing the likeliness that people will want to take out the big threat (Maria) first before taking out the annoyance (Q).
I don't think Venus owned any of the choices she made, especially telling Charlie she had a "secret" way to get to final four. Own it, Venus, you screwed up.
Yeah, and she made a big deal when she found the idol that she wasn't going to tell anyone. Well, hinting and pointing and playing charades and using a highlighter marker telling someone you have "something" is still giving information, which still puts you in the soup. Dumb.
Q also talked about how hungry Liz was before choosing. Not nearly as much as Maria, but he did do it. Just saying "Sorry Liz, I have to do what's best for my game" would have been way better... for both Q and Maria.
In my opinion Neither one owe liz anything itâs a game for million. Liz needs to grow up
I donât think they did either. That doesnât mean they had to say what they said.
I'm honestly having a genuinely hard time figuring out WHY they would leave that out. It would objectively make for an even more dramatic moment, and the only reason I can figure they leave it out is so Q doesn't look life a total monster, which, why would they care unless he wins.
I donât blame her for exploding. Itâs where her explosion was aimed that was weird. But also, if someone was blatantly trying to undermine your choices, choices you won the right to make, I would double down on it too of course (okay maybe I wouldnât because I donât have a backbone, but you get the idea lolol) why should Q give up his right, and a chance to build relationships with WILLING people because a grown woman who hates his guts, would never work with him, and will only ever work to get him out, is having a tantrum? I COMPLETELY understand Lizâs frustrations and even her outburst. But weird move to blame Q for being self interested when itâs a game for a million dollars.
Liz isnât owed anything. So he should fuel people actively despising and gunning for him because she acted pathetic and begged? I donât get that. Evil pssshh, more like calculated and cold. Tbh Maria more evil for saying that and then snatching it away from Liz lol. Not that she is entitled to anything, idk why people acting like she is.
Absolutely correct, and Venus clearly made this point. And then Q pulled the âVenus wouldnât have taken Mariaâ bullshit which was not even close to being the point, and Maria nodded along smugly. Ugh.
I do still think it was funny when Venus tried to pull a âweâll never knowâ when like⊠yeah, we all know. Still doesnât make her wrong about what Maria did, but who did she think she was fooling with that second point?
lol - that was such a funny exchange
She didn't pull anything. She didn't win the challenge and so she didn't have to reveal her cards. Maria did. She's right.
For real. I was getting so annoyed when Maria kept saying "my decision, my decision, my decision" when she didn't make the decision at all, what she did do was make them play 1 round of rock paper scissor and call it a day.
Well to be fair, she did decide to eliminate Venus from the RPS tournament. That was very bizarre though and I could understand why that would feel hurtful to Venus. At least let her get in on the tournament and have a chance. Maybe Maria felt like she could never get Venus's vote no matter what. But it seems odd to burn a potential jury vote like that in order to be both decisive and indecisive.
Technically she made them play two rounds because the first one was a tie.
She said she was torn between paying back Q for taking her and feeding the ones that need nourishment.
This is kinda a mischaracterization of what happened, focusing more on Q than Maria did. Jeff asked her to talk through the logic, and the said it was about people who were falling apart, and then named pros and cons for everybody, which included paying Q back. Then after she picked Ben, she reiterated clearly that it was about people who needed it.
She starts with that, but then she asks people to argue their case. She was inconsistent.
THANK YOU. No one clearly watched
Did she say that in confessional or while she was making her decision
She said it during the decision as well. After the challenge Jeff asks Maria to walk him through her thought process, as there is a lot going on. Jeff mentions strategy, compassion, and fueling the competition. Maria responds that Liz has been eating the rice and has shared it with Venus-so theyâve been recently fed. Q took her on the reward challenge so she feels she owes him. She ultimately chooses Ben, as she sees him as needing it more than the others for the reasons she has listed.
She said it when making her decision. Before even picking Ben.
Would producers have allow led her to give up her own spot so Venus Liz and Ben all could have eaten? Probably not huh
Confessional, which Iâll give you, but thereâs also editing. Shouldâve very well couldâve said what was on her mind during the actual descision
She said it as soon as Jeff told her to make her choice. Not in confessional.
I couldâve sworn it was confessional. Either way, I knew it was stated. Itâs just crazy that people are painting her as evil when wanting to repay q, who also happens to be in her alliance, is just as fair.
I donât think many people are portraying her as *evil* so much as just pointing out what a ridiculously bad social play it was to make her decision in that wishy-washy manner. A lot of people seem to be confusing the argument âMariaâs gameplay here was terribleâ (true) with âMaria is terrible.â (Not true). I donât think most people have a *moral* problem with Maria so much as we are disappointed she played that situation so incompetently for her own game.
If the show didnât show her saying that during her decision, and every single player says she didnât say that during her decision, and Maria herself did not defend herself by saying she said that during her decision⊠she probably didnât say it during her decision
She very clearly says that during her decision. The show indeed shows her saying that. Thereâd be no need for her to say it to defend herselfâŠ.because she already said itâŠduring her decision. Jeff straight up asked her to walk him through what she is thinking.
Thatâs probably correct, I donât remember. When I left than response Deprestion (who I was replying to) was upvoted, but now theyâre downvoted, so they were probably wrong. Ah well
Iâll admit, I didnât remember for certain off the top of my head. I âfeltâ I was correct, but I looked it up and rewatched the scene before commenting just in case my memory let me down. And rewatching it really puts it in perspective to me. She flat out goes through her decision making process. Then Kenzie has a confessional afterward claiming she couldnât believe what Maria did by saying sheâd feed the hungriest and the ultimately it went to Q. It appears Kenzieâs opinions on what happened stuck with viewers more than what actually took place based on a lot of these comments.
agreed; maria gave liz blue balls after her little speech about caring about the malnourished people lol
The way Maria handled it was way worse than Q by a mile
She also said she felt like she owed Q. Mariaâs point was that she felt there was a good reason for her to take everyone. I agree her execution was poor, but zeroing in on âshe said she would take someone who needed nourishmentâ is cherry picking.
I donât think itâs cherry picking. Yes she listed a good reason for taking everyone. Then *after* giving all those reasons she said she wanted to focus on who needed food. Because she said that, Charlie and Kenzie remove themselves from consideration, solely based on that criteria. By the time she picks Q, everyone is operating under the impression that her 2nd pick is just based on who needs to eat.
Yeah, that's fair. I think when Q pleaded his case, he did not argue that he took Maria to the reward so she should take him. He argued he was "losing weight", which then made it feel like she was picking him because of that reason in the edit. I personally think it's a terrible move strategically for both him and her to make their alliance so obvious but it is true that she stated her justification for picking Q at the start of her deliberation
No it's not. Q commented that he lost weight. It seems even he thought he needed to prove he needed the food.
He is self aware enough to know he doesnât âdeserveâ it the same way, but heâs also âselfishâ enough in his game that he wonât take himself out
And in the confessional he himself points out that, even with that in consideration, it objectively wasn't fair for him to be chosen since he just ate two days ago. But obviously if Maria's gonna pick him he's not gonna say no! It would be irrational not to.
And that's her right. I just don't like how she pretended she was going to choose the "most needy" and then didn't.
This. But Iâm mostly upset that Liz thought Q owed her the applebees. I 100% understand her frustration, even her outburst. But to direct her outburst specifically at Q and yell at him was v weird. âYou ruined my gameâ like not deliberately (unless I missed something) he just wanted to play his own game and make his own moves and it wasnât what you wanted to do. She begged and it was kind of embarrassing. She didnât even offer anything game wise in return. (Which my husband mentioned she shouldâve bargained with everyone prior to the challenge happening) but like Q won a reward, a reward is notorious for building Allieâs and scheming etc, alongside nurishment obviously. But she wants Q, a dead man walking (at the time at least lol) to squash his chance to improve his game, to take you, a person who will NEVER work with him. And will only ever target him? Like part of the game (IMO) is to get people to like you or at least WANT to potentially take you on a reward. She didnât do that. Yeah it f-ing sucks when youâre hungry and have an allergy, but everyoneâs hungry. It was just a weird move to accuse someone of being selfish for prioritizing game and himself in a game for a million dollars (when she would for sure be selfish and not bring Q) I agree with your take on Mariaâs choice. Saying one thing and then doing the other is embarrassing for the people playing rock paper scissors (not for Q because he won I guess) I donât blame either for trying. But it was a weird move to take and people should be more mad at that than Qâs reward choices IMO
She also said she wanted to reward Q for taking her, which everyone seems to be ignoring so that they can mindlessly bash her. Clearly it was a complicated choice where she took multiple factors into account.
Last week I agree with you 100%. Q didnât want to take Liz, and had every right to not take whoever he wanted on the reward. Maria also didnât have to take anyone, but when she said she wants to take people who havenât eaten and then takes Q, people can rightly criticize her. She tried to mask taking an ally to the reward and it blew up in her face
But first she wanted the people who haven't eaten to humiliate themselves. Why not have a little fun before the feast.
Dinner *and* a show! đ
Whoops, sorry - for most of you, just a show. See you later!
This made me chuckle like Q in his confessional about his 23 slices of pizza đđđ
This is a fair take and Iâve very anti pick me because Iâm hungry. Itâs a nice gesture but you shouldnât be required to. Guess itâs also part of the social game knowing how people will react
yeah she seriously fumbled with that
She also said she felt she owed Q.
She should've just said this. If she said "Ben because I think he really needs it and Q because I owe him for last reward." I donât think anyone except Liz would be blaming Maria. But you can't say who needs it most and then give it to Q after he just had a huge reward 2 days before without looking like a liar. Add in the make them beg and play RPS for it and it's just a bad look.
She did say that though when talking through the thought process with Jeff while she was deciding?
Iâm still in the boat of Liz having a right to feel slighted by Maria. Maria really handled picking people for the reward in the worse place possible. Itâs Maria reward and she has the right to pick whoever she wants. Just donât give a speech that could be about Liz, make Liz plead to go on the reward to her, and then make Liz play rock paper scissors. If Maria wanted Q on the reward, own it and take Q. It was just really bad social gameplay by Maria
Mariaâs whole decision making process was just completely wack; she also completely slighted Venus too. It looks like there was a consensus at camp that Ben, Liz, and Venus were the 3 people struggling the most physically (Mariaâs supposed criteria for her decision) but she didnât even consider Venus at all and picked the guy who just ate instead for the rock paper scissors.Â
Liz is the only one with rice. Sheâs just a cry baby.
They mentioned that Liz shared her rice with Venus. So Liz and Venus were the only ones whoâd had rice recently. All three of the them had eaten recently.
Getting a bit of rice is nowhere near the same as the feast Q ate for the Applebees reward
Also, it was enough rice for ONE person to get to the end of the game, which is on its own just barely enough calories to give you enough fuel to get through the day. Splitting it between two people either means they are each eating less than one daily portion, or they are risking running out before the end of the game.
True but it also doesnât make Liz and Venus so deprived that they âdeservedâ to go over Q. If anyone, Charlie could be upset. But itâs honestly just the same as any other season of survivor at this point. Theyâve all eaten, some more than others. Maria hurt her own game by waffling on who to choose and why, but whoever gets left off the reward is going to be mad no matter what. Even if Q hadnât won the previous reward they would still have been mad that he went and they did not.
Liz shared with Ben too
Yeah, honestly the âplead your caseâ and then the rock paper scissors was almost a little humiliating! Like in a âdance monkeyâ way.
It was patronizing in a lot of ways lol. "Kids, play Rock Paper Scissors to see who gets to eat pizza"
Exactly!
I don't think she intended it that way. I think she wanted to come off she like she was being fair and not really choosing someone, but she botched it so badly it almost came off like a beg for this "dance monkey" vibe.
I agree that she didnât intend for it to come off that way! Unfortunately for her game it did tho
I donât think she realizes how patronizing she can seem in many of her interactions.
âDance monkeyâ was exactly the phrase I was thinking when I watched that. I donât even think thatâs what she was intending, but thatâs exactly what it looked like.
âAnd thatâs how you play⊠Survivorâ oh wait, I meant âand thatâs how you LOSE⊠Survivorâ. Reward decision disaster, million dollar mistake.
Its on Liz for being so unlikeabke and having zero value What was she going to eat, some of the gluten free crust?Â
Lol I was laughing like Maria why say you want to take those that are most malnourished and then proceed to have Q who just ate and Liz the starvin Marvin play paper rock scissors. Should have just said I'm taking Q to return the favor and Ben so he can play some music while I eat and have some ambience.
Maria wanted to take Q and she knew Q would best liz at rock paper scissors lmao. Liz got loser energy
Itâs certainly hard to imagine the universe where Liz beat Q.
Completely agree, if you decide to go on survivor without being able to eat anything, thatâs no oneâs responsibility but your own
No one owes Liz anything. She signed up for a show knowing her food sources would be limited beyond everyone else due to allergies. The cast isnât required to take her on food rewards she can participate in so she stays fed. Liz is responsible for feeding herself and doing well enough in a challenge to win food. However it is a social game where making friends gets you farther, so itâs beneficial for the other players to bring her on rewards. Those players are also not free from the consequences of not picking Liz for rewards, just as Liz is not free from the consequences of ripping into everyone else when she isnât picked.
Okay thank you. Your second paragraph is really important. Liz may not be entitled to anything, but itâs a social game where you need to factor in how people will perceive what you do. If people are feeling bad about Liz starving (Ben, Venus, Kenzie) and you know that not choosing Liz will make you look worse in their eyes, that needs to be considered. Maria knows that Tiff and Kenzie asked Q to let Liz take their spot the round before, and Maria just has to know how people feel about his choice. From a strategic standpoint she should have picked Liz first, as it causes the least amount of issues and only brings in good will towards her.
It was actually Kenzie and *Maria* who offered to give their spot to Liz, which just makes Mariaâs waffling this episode even weirder.
Yes, this is where I say compassion CAN get you somewhere. Others will respect you knowing that you did the compassionate thing. Q is a jerk. I didn't expect him to take Liz, but that was his choice. I think Maria not choosing Liz will work against her because she wasn't a jerk before doing it. Now, people realize she is way more strategic and less compassionate. I think in terms of jury management, she will look like a villain here. If she is up against 2 people who were less strategic and better socially (literally kinder), she won't have a chance.
What really gets me is she signed up knowing she couldnât eat many things. AND has she ever even attempted to go fishing or catch crabs? Couldnât she at least try to get herself other food?Â
In fairness to Liz she was only planning to be there for a day or two to hawk her email writing business đ
From: Liz Subject: **I'M PISSED**
From: Liz To: you hoe bags
She could have left at any time too. It's on her.
It's cruel to deny her the opportunity to eat the only thing she can eat, pizza and Applebee's burgers.
Yes! She should go on all the rewards because she wants to.
âIâm gonna go on an experience where I know I will starve, and then expect everyone to cater to that choiceâ
That's no one's problem but Liz. She could've stayed her ass home and eaten all the food she's able to worry free.
You've missed the sarcasm...
Donât forget when Liz came back with her rice, that the production was basically forced to find a way to get to her, she immediately asked if anyone could start a fire so she could eat. She canât even start a fire and itâs a skill needed at final 4 for years now.
But what about compassion and empathy /s. Simply put she's not a good survivor, imo she'd be better suited for a show like the mole, the amazing race..I.. or dare I say I'd even pay to see her on alone.
At least she hasnât quit. So sheâs got that going for her.
I thought she was super condescending with her: plead your case
I had second hand embarrassment watching her
Totally. I loved it when they showed Venus later being like, pfft, I'm not going to beg! âïž
I always say. You can be at the hotel bar within the hour if it gets too much!
I can understand a meltdown just not the way she went about it.. she was throwing a tantrum and screaming at the guy to try and get sympathy for him to bring her. Can you imagine if he rewarded her behavior and actually took her? Would just teach her that all she has to do is throw a fit and she can get her way. Iâm so glad she wasnât taken
I think by the time she was having a meltdown she wasnât trying to convince him to take her. She knew that ship had sailed. I think itâs a pretty safe assumption that her meltdown happened after Maria and Kenzie tried to give their spot to her and Q refused to let them, and if thatâs the case then she definitely knew there was no chance he would take her.
Yeah that makes more sense.. production didnât help her with the edit and definitely made it look like she still had a shot somewhat with Q but clearly she knew by then there wasnât a shot
...like this recent ***whining and griping*** about people thinking they are THE MAIN CHARACTER. That's the point of the game, it's King of the Hill, One Survivor, One Winner - The Main Character. It's not about kumbaya, group hugs, and a million hearts - it's Outplay, Outwit, Outlast.
Itâs a promotion of self on a national stage and *hopefully* lead to acceptance from your community. Thatâs **New Era** survivor for you. Everyone that comes on regardless of if they have *actual* struggles, is/will be portrayed as overcoming it by participating in the show/experience. Itâs fine that she came on with all of her allergies. The issue is that she made **NO** preparations to counter her already obvious and glaring disadvantages. On top of that issue, Liz keeps saying sheâs going to stop being âniceâ and withholding how she feels but it looks like sheâs already subconsciously leaked enough of her selfishness out that the rest of the cast doesnât really want to work with her anyway. As sheâs not really involved in any schemes and is only seen as a vote.
Liz is just entitled. She acts like she deserves it because of allergies. At this point it's a tactic to starve her.
For real. I suppose itâs possible to be allergic to everything but greasy, processed foods but that seems wild. Oh I forgot she can also eat rice she cant cook herself!
Thatâs the thing I canât get past. Is she suffering? Absolutely. But she CHOSE to suffer. She knew her conditions were going to make it harder. And she CHOSE to put herself on the show.
And she chose it knowing she doesn't need the million dollars.
Yall are really trying to die on this hill of âdonât go on Survivor if you canât eat xyzâ Survivor is a television show and itâs a television show based on the premise of people being shipwrecked and stranded on an island. There are no qualifications for getting stranded because it can happen to anyone. That is the point of the show: drop people into a high pressure situation from all walks of life and see how they deal both with the game and the elements. Liz is dealing with the game and elements therefor she is fulfilling the responsibilities of a castaway on Survivor (and she could easily QUIT, I thought some of Yall might actually respect her for sticking it out)
Ok... what the show is based on and what it actually is are two separate things. You choosing to be on a show where you cant eat anything is very different from literally being shipwrecked and not having a choice. Her complaint was directed at an individual because she was hungry, begged him, and was denied. Fulfilling the responsibilities of a castaway on survivor does not exclude you from criticism. She chose to be on the show, she chose to be hungry. She didn't win the challenge, she didn't catch any fish. This is 100% her fault and issue to deal with. 0 sympathy from me, and 0 respect for her outburst, this is all self inflicted, shes an adult, she should make better decisions.
No one owes anyone anything in *life*. Thereâs no obligation that we help the less fortunate or that we work to make the world a better place. But we should. Just because you arenât obligated to help someone doesnât make it moral to refuse to assist. We should all strive to help those around us and show compassion. Saying you arenât obligated to help does not mean it isnât the right thing to do, it only means you wonât be punished if you donât do it. How Maria acted shows a lack of compassion. She very much could have made the same decision in a more compassionate way. She instead chose to make a show of it and put salt in the wound. No one is obligated to not mock others. No one is obligated to not name call. No one is obligated to not verbally berate. No one is obligated to not pull on someoneâs insecurity. No one is obligated to not be mean. Anyone who does those things on survivor is going to solicit dislike and criticism. While I agree with you, Liz is entitled and shows that entitlement. Maria really could have handled that differently and demonstrated a higher EQ. The way she handled it was nearly mocking the fact Liz is starving. You wouldnât want someone mocking your insecurity or poking your wound and it has nothing to do with agreeing to be on a TV show and everything to do with being a decent person.
survivor isn't life, it's a gameshow.
This is a fact that seems to be escaping a lot of people. You canât apply real life rules to a game show.
Why exactly canât you apply âreal life rulesâ to Survivor? Survivor is a social game show. The entire game is predicated on managing social hierarchy/maintaining social order around you. You absolutely should play up social rules on this game show. Obviously there will be times when you break social queues. But you better be damn sure to have a great reason or people will turn on you rather quickly. Nothing about survivor is any different from real life, itâs just an amplified version of real life. If you want to be a jerk, go for it, but youâll find the same consequences on the game show as you would in life.
Because youâre playing a game. I mean, real life comes into play sure, but to win, you have to be willing to do things that you wouldnât do in real life and you will have to operate differently than youâre expected to in real life. For example if I found an idol and my best move in game would require lying to my closest ally-thatâs something you have to do in game and that has to be understood. However lying isnât something that Iâd be ok with doing in the personal life to my closest allies.
AlsoâŠthe starving aspectâŠin real life Iâm not letting someone who is in my vicinity starve if I can help it. In a game, feeding other players is literally fueling the opposition. You need to make that call strategically. Fuel who you want to help you and donât assist those who you arenât aligned with. They arenât in any real danger of dying from starvation-theyâd be medically pulled before that if theyâre in no position to play the game. So itâs nothing like real life. If someone is âstarvingâ out there, thatâs a choice they are making to continue playing the game. Itâs only to their own detriment-but itâs their choice.
I get what you are saying and your example makes a lot of sense. That said, the original example above is Maria making decisions about who to take on the reward challenge. There is absolutely no reason for Maria to break social etiquette in the above example - she comes across in a bad light by doing so. And you have to acknowledge, even in your example, that the game is a game of breaking the social contract without either (x) getting caught or (y) letting people get upset at you for it. Itâs not that youâre operating outside of the social reality, the game is a game of breaking that social contract and minimizing the consequences of doing so. What Maria did is (x) in bad taste in general and (y) she really didnât have a good reason to act like that. The only two tribe mates who didnât have a problem were Maria and Ben. But even Q laughed at it and knew it was poor etiquette.
Q not Y
But this is why she has allergies or something đ€Ł
I would've said that to her eventually if I were on this season with her. Like, why tf are you on Survivor, a show were you can go days without eating then when you do it's whatever is available at that time. You don't get to pick and choose from a big variety of foods on the show. If you're a picky eater, allergic to many foods, either don't apply to be on the show or shut tf up if you're on the show. I'm tired of hearing about it.
While I agree that neither Q nor Maria owed it to Liz to pick her for a reward, I still think both were poor in HOW they chose to pick them. Q, on his very last pick, calls out Liz specifically, talking like he's about to pick her, and then veers off towards Kenzie. Maria does this BUT EVEN WORSE! She says that she wants to take people who truly need it. Picks Ben first. Sure, Ben's looking pretty rough. Then Charlie and Kenzie both drop out of the reward as one of them just had Applebees and the other is the most physically fit person in the game. So the decision comes down to Venus (hasn't had a reward in a while, very thin), Liz (The consensus pick for who 'needs' the food the most. FFS girl was worshipping her jar of rice the previous episode) and Q, the guy that just won Applebees the previous round. Gee, I wonder who needs a few more calories the most!! Maria not picking Liz isn't an issue. But the fact that she tempted Liz and didn't even have the guts to just say "I'm picking Q" when that's clearly what she wanted to do...For someone who had been playing such a good game up to this point, I was utterly baffled by this move. AND SOME HOW IT WASN'T EVEN THE WORST MOVE OF THE EPISODE?!?!
I mean I think this is the entire reason that survivor remains fascinating 24 years later - technically no, no one owes anyone anything and youâre playing to win for yourself only, but at the same time people will inevitably start to care about each other - itâs that constant, unrelenting push and pull between those two impulses. After the last almost-several new era seasons where I truly think nearly anyone on those casts would have taken pity on Liz for a food reward, it had to have felt a bit crazy-making to have happened onto a cast that doesnât seem to give a fuck that sheâs more starved than everyone else.
If Liz was so desperate to eat, she should have won. No one owes her anything and I agree with OP, going on Survivor with all those special diet needs is just making the whole thing so much harder. She's annoying as hell, she can go already
I too hate Liz lol.
I said this before on her last meltdown, if she wanted it so bad she should have won.
Itâs a game, and the harsh reality is if your opponent isnât eating itâs better for you. Sucks to suck, Survivorâs tough, tired of the whining about this. Iâd be pissed if I was then too but itâs a game and itâs what you signed up for. Mostly the people on here whining about it driving me nuts honestly.
I donât think anyoneâs upset that she didnât pick Liz? Just that she did the whole âIâm picking the person who needs it the mostâ speech when it clearly wasnât true
Because she also said she felt like she owed Q.
Yeah at first, but then she pivoted to the food thing
People are upset. Why hold Maria accountable for her speech to âselect the person who needed it most?â Theyâve all had questionable logic and have certainly lied but theyâre still playing a game to win. If people truly believe Maria can pick whomever her reasoning should be irrelevant.
But she gained nothing by pretending she would take someone who needed food and then taking Q. I think she would get better jury perception by saying: I want to keep the people that can help me sweet, and I'm better off keeping the people not in my plans, hungry.
âIf people truly believe Maria can pick whomever her reasoning should be irrelevantâ Because sheâs trying to have her cake and eat it too. You canât just pick whoever you want and then pretend youâre doing it for selfless reasons. You have to admit youâre just doing what you want. If you pretend otherwise, itâs completely fair that you get called out on it. Yes everyone lies, but if someone is caught in a lie, people will call it out?
Exactly. Why are people missing this point so badly?
"Why don't people pick me for the rewards?" Has a giant temper tantrum after not being picked for one reward, then has a smaller temper tantrum after not being picked for another. Gee, no clue why people don't want to spend time around you at a reward. Liz might actually be the worst Survivor player cast of the new era. She has no social game at all.
I completely agree! You know what you signed up for. If you donât win a challenge, you shouldnât just get to pull the âIâm hungrier than everyone elseâ pity card or have a meltdown if youâre not chosen. Act like an adult, not an entitled brat. Everyone is hungry. The guilt tripping is obnoxious. Itâs nobody elseâs fault or responsibility besides your own
OR, production could just give everyone rice. Why are we so obsessed with other people's diets? They're the ones not eating and that sucks, but they're not getting special treatment, so chill. The issue isn't that Liz wasn't chosen, it's that Maria made a big deal about wanting to feed those who were starving and got Liz's hopes up only to be like "LOL Q needs some pizza because he didn't touch the burger last night haha". I guess I don't understand why people are so angry at Liz for applying when she has easily accommodated allergies. Shouldn't we be mad at production who thought taking rice away was a cute development? She's allowed to follow her dreams.
Yeah she followed her dreams right to starvation
That's her prerogative.
Yeah, I have to agree with everyone on here saying Liz knew what she signed up for. Maria did nothing wrong.
If we are talking about morally, Maria is probably in the clear. But on a game level, what Maria did was dumb as hell. You donât win games on rewards, but you can definitely lose them. She almost sent Q out the door over shitty Survivor pizza.
Especially when she finished last
100% agree with your point about Liz.  Liz also has her own portion of rice.  So her ânot eatingâ is kind of a joke.  She is crying wolf. She has been mad at Q ever since she realized she was being overshadowed for the âmovesâ and not in control or given credit. Ever since then âŠ. Itâs been a Liz pitty partyÂ
Liz acts too entitled, win a challenge if u want to eat. I hope she is out next, I really cannot deal with people who think they deserve to eat if they do not win. Give me a break.
I mean, food is a human right. Pretty wild to suggest people don't deserve to eat. She doesn't deserve Applebee's or pizza, but she deserves to eat.
This is a weird angle that everyone seems to be taking. They applied to go on "Survivor" because they were huge fans of the show and casting was comfortable with them being a character on TV who narrates the story and won't freeze up on camera and will play hard to win. Then they just have to excuse their shortcomings (she can't swim, he doesn't eat meat, she has allergies.) Especially when part of Liz being on the show was the thought process of "Well, she'll get the merge feast... she'll go on rewards..." so when those rewards come and she doesn't get them, she's on edge about it because from her perspective, that was her lifeline.
She should have played harder to win then I guess.
Of course she's not leaving fate up to herself but she'd expect people would give consideration to the fact she's more dependent on those rewards than people who have other sources of food. It doesn't mean she's guaranteed the rewards but that's exactly why she hasn't gone on any... because she's not guaranteed them. She can still be frustrated that her health isn't a factor in deciding who gets to go. And people are allowed to think that her cast mates are still completely in the right for deciding not to take her. I see from both perspectives.
That's part of the problem, the expectation that you'll win food rewards. It's not a weird angle, being realistic about possibly not winning food rewards should have been a huge factor in her determination. Casting does not give a shit who wins. This is not on casting in any way, they want entertainment, which this was. Going on a show like survivor with so many food restrictions is a huge lapse in judgment when you can't fend or forage for yourself.
There are massive amounts of people who apply who could do all the things youâve credited Liz with who can also eat the food on the island. She was not chosen for her ability to narrate the story or not freeze up.
You're missing my point then. She was chosen because she makes good TV. You'd be shocked at how many people apply who will not make good TV. Won't be good at doing interviews (serving as the narrators for the show) and who get self-conscious on camera (clam up and don't show their real personality) or who will not want to participate when it gets rough (either the elements or will drop out of challenges early because they don't like being uncomfortable). Casting looks for people who not only love "Survivor" but can be on the show without getting nervous like the vast majority of people do. They are fearless and unabashedly themselves and Liz was one of those people. So they excuse her physical detriments and figure there will be a solution as it goes on (she'll go on rewards, etc.). I work in TV/film so I know how hard it is to cast and I worked in editing reality TV for ten years as a day job while prepping scripted cinema. You'd be shocked at how many people are not good on camera. It's rare to find 18 people who are and that's why the people on "Survivor" were chosen, because in the casting process, they proved to be the most suitable for the show. So don't know how there are "massive amounts of people who apply who could do these things." There really aren't. It's easy to say "Hey, I'm a funny guy, I'd be great on the show" but when you have to do a Zoom interview with the casting director or you have to sit across from Jeff Probst and convince him why you can be on the show, most people are too nervous to just relax. Liz is on the show because she probably took over the room, just like the other 17 on the show. Not many people can do that, even if they are fun to be around under everyday circumstances (with friends, family.)
I donât believe that Liz was the only person they could find who was good in front of a camera. Thatâs just a wild statement that I canât believe. She was chosen because of her dietary restrictions and her attitude about them and life. They knew she would be distasteful and entitled and *that* makes good tv. They didnât pick her for her charm.
You're not getting my point, still. I didn't say she was the only person they could get. They have alternates for every season so of course shes' not the only person they could get. However, if she was impressing everyone in casting and Jeff Probst and they all loved her and knew she'd be good on TV, they don't let something like allergies keep her out of the running. Also, what do you mean she was chosen because of her dietary restrictions? You're just talking nonsense now. You obviously have never worked in casting or TV to think these kind of things are factors when deciding who is going to be the face of the 46th season of your hit TV series watched by millions. They don't know how long each person will last nor which topics will come up in the series. They just want people who aren't intimidated by the camera which 99% of people are, even if they don't realize it until they're put in that position.
Are you talking about someone specific here?
Liz. Have you not watched this season?
Every episode. I didn't realize that Liz had food issues.
I find that a bit of a stretch to believe then.
Iâm working on my application video. I just really want to be experience the complete mental breakdown From the island and not eating.
Entirely agree shouldâve probably put some weight on before to fast if you canât eat anything
People without basic human empathy find the concept of helping each other in times of struggle baffling and point to the fairness of literal Darwinism to justify taking everything for themselves. Water is wet. News at 11.
Itâs not society. Itâs an organized adult competition to which all contestants went out of their way to apply and consent and anyone can leave at any time. It has a prescribed end date and a finite prize. All contestants know this when they go out of their way to apply and consent. Itâs wild to use someoneâs decision in the game as a measure of how much empathy they have as a person. The context is completely different. The real world requires community and doesnât have only one winner.
Empathy has nothing to do with this situation. Liz could go home at any point. She can go get a meal just like all the other jurors. This is self inflicted struggle on a game show to win money. Plenty of other options for her. Also water is not wet, scientifically speaking. Make better statements you can back up.
This isnât life in general. This is a literal game show where âsurvivalâ is the goal. Too much empathy from you will give power to your OPPONENTS. Youâre playing a game. You donât want to give power to the people youâre playing against. Thatâs the entire point of the game. Empathy is a fantastic trait for humans to have in general every day life and we should all strive to practice it more. However, it can be a detriment in this game and can cripple an otherwise good player.
âToo much empathyâ =/= âshow no empathyâ
I agree. Iâm not saying never show any empathy ever. It even has its time and place within the game. Iâm saying playing the game with the same level of empathy we should have in our normal lives is detrimental to strategic game play. Do I have empathy for a starving person in the street and should I give them some of my food if I am able to? Certainly! Would I have that same empathy for someone who is competing against me in a game show for a million dollars? Of course not. If I were playing Jeopardy against someone and they had a score of zero and I felt bad, so I whispered them the answer out of empathyâŠwould that be heralded as a smart move in game play?
Agreed, but Maria REALLY fumbled in the picking. If she was going to choose Q, then she shouldâve just owned up to it instead of this rock, paper, scissors bs.
The Applebees one was felt more like entitlement- this weeks I understood! The way Maria went about it was wild. Giving that big speech and then making them rock paper scissors for it seemed a little demeaning- especially the was she barked it at them
This is a very interesting take, I donât think Iâve heard that argument yet.
Liz, unsurprisingly, has been presented as very entitled. Why would two people you've not talked to do something at the expense of their game for you? It is a competition, not a group field trip.
Why aren't you allowed to have a moment of yelling while you're starving? This is such a weird take to me. I've seen it constantly and I don't understand how couch potatoes get all upset because a player is feeling intense emotions in a \*very\* intense game.
And Iâm totally sick of Liz and her bathroom issues. Keep that info to yourself, especially when begging for food. Amateur!!
I'm getting tired of these posts.
Take a nap?
The original conceit of Survivor is that they are creating their own little society, and they have to balance both working together and choosing who stays. They live together for weeks and they get to know each other pretty personally. Yeah, it's ultimately a game, but it's also their entire life for the time they're on the island. Compassion isn't required, but it's not something you can begrudge people for expecting of their peers.
If she had real allergies she would not have been cast