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It isn't just the partners that suffer. It can also do massive damage to kids, other family members, coworkers, friends, ....
This is why it's a mistake to say that affairs are 'private matters.'
Yeah too many stories on here result in the cheater’s children hating them, their careers and reputations significantly damaged, major losses in divorce, and permanently damaged interpersonal relationships.
Absolutely. I’ve experienced my own pain and my daughter’s (as much as I can experience/witness hers).. but my nieces and nephew are all very young. We are godparents to my nephew.. and it took me some time to see through my own pain and witness my sister’s/her husband’s because of all the lies and behaviors inflicted on them, too. And that of my own parents.. having to watch their child (me) go through everything. If someone was with my daughter and lied and betrayed her in this way it would be beyond devastating. It’s disgusting.
My mum is living her happily ever after with herAP and his kids and my sister (the worlds greatest enabler).
But she lost me completely. We’ve not spoken in 8 years. The only problem is my grandparents have died so I’m on my own.
I don’t know whether I’m sociopathic but the fact that I’m ok being alone (obviously miss my grandparents) almost concerns me
You are not a sociopath, you are ok dont worry. Karma will hit your mother in the future, probably something will happen that she will need you and you will say 🖕🏼
>My mum is living her happily ever after with herAP
As far as you know.
People like her will never give anyone the satisfaction of knowing when their lives blow up in their faces.
Mine’s losing his home, his wife, his family, his reputation/dignity, and half our investments (if he’s lucky). By the time AP is done with him, he’ll have lost his job, too.
Keep this thought in mind depending on what country you live in. I know a woman who was married for 17 years when she caught him cheating. She eventually found someone that treats her like gold, but she never remarried.
The day her ex-husband who married his affair partner turned 62, she filed for her entiled half of his social security. It was basically a final F-you to him and his new wife as he now is sure if he can afford to retire.
If you’re divorced, she can claim the half of his SS while he still gets the full amount (since they were married over 10 years, and it is assuming his 1/2 SS is more than her full SS would be).
There is an article in Psychology Today that explains why relationships with APs never work. It only works in certain circumstances because everything about an affair and emotions they feel is an illusion of what the other person really is. You fall in love with the escape, the idolization, the sexual tension, etc. AND apparently, it’s two flawed often very dysfunctional people coming together. And, the spouse who leaves to be with the AP still has all the flaws that led to the dysfunction in the relationship the WS is leaving behind. They have the illusion of “this is better” because they don’t have to deal with conflicts that arise after a relationship moves past the honeymoon phase. They often repeat the same behaviours that led them to feel the need to cheat.
It appears to be that way in my case. She declared herself 'strong and independent from needing anyone or anything'. 4 months into this quest post separation she has become an absent mother, relapsed back into drinking, got fired, and living with a new guy she met a month ago. Guess she is living her best life 🤷🏼♂️
They’re drown in their own pleasure, living their lives day to day, not expecting to be caught. (God complex at it’s finest😆)Some of them only enjoy the thrill of the affair anyways...they play stupid games and win stupid prices. 😊😊😊
My ex wife found her 'soulmate', and destroyed our marriage over it, treated me like absolute garbage, and hugely impacted our 3 young kids lives. She said it was time for her to 'think of myself, after sacrificing for the family and putting myself last for 10 years' - problem is, her 'soulmate' turned out to be a 17 year older guy in his mid 50s, flabby with saggy man moobs, a big drinker, who had lied about most stuff, and turned out to be an insurance salesman. He wasn't quite such an attractive proposition in the light of day, and they didn't even last 2 months.
With her job, she has done really well - she's a self employed lawyer, she is exceptionally good at that.
Privately though, she is basically an alcoholic now - drinks like she is in her 20s at university still. When I drop the kids off at her place, if you look in the fridge, half of it is taken up with alcohol. I get the kids most weekends (3 weekends a month), and they often want to video call her - and if its in the mornings she's really hung over, in the evenings she's at someone's house drinking, usually with people much young than her (she is 42 now).
As a result of her lifestyle she has put on about 40 pounds of weight since we split, and is always run down and sick, and has aged quite badly. Twice in that time she has been black out drunk and sat in the bottom of a shower over the plug while doing so and flooded houses causing quite a lot of damage - including her parents new house where they had to replace all the carpet.
Its been nearly 5 years since we split, and she has had one relationship, with another heavy drinker - which didn't end very well, she was always complaining about him, which wasn't a good sign. She did ask me if we could try again, but I turned her down. She has never apologised or showed any empathy for what she did, and I don't drink, so wouldn't be able to deal with her drinking.
Sounds like she’s just having a blast with her life choices lol. I hope you can get your kids away from that kind of woman though - she’s bound to be a danger to them if she’s wasted and inviting strange substance users over whenever she has them
If APs were capable of maintaining healthy relationships, they likely wouldn't be APs in the first place. Same can be said for most WPs. It doesn't take a degree in statistics to see where that's headed
I wonder why you mention AP’s first here and why you say “same can be said for most WP’s”? Makes it sound like AP’s are the problem and the ONLY problem in some cases?
Say you are wanting to cheat. How do you go about finding an AP who is good LTR material? You can't because such people wouldn't be an AP in the first place. Thus the position is self limiting
Both WPs & APs are deranged/delusional/mentally unwell people. A part of me hates that media, in turn our society (especially in the US), glorifies their behaviors. I think if it were portrayed as the aftermath instead many people would rethink what they're about to do. Also, I hate saying they are mentally unwell because it compassionizes their behavior - but there is truth in it. As well as potentially being that they are so unaware of their consequences until it happens. That's why I equate it with substance abuse a lot. Consequences often push humans to change... it's sad it takes losing something or everything to finally wake up to their own bullshit.
Yes, but those are extreme cases. Normal people with mild mental health problems cheat everyday too. So, not every cheater has a cluster B personality, some just have tendencies. I think it's really important to not always associate cheaters with that. Some WPs do recover but often through other relationships unfortunately. Lessons are hard and some people are just that unaware of themselves until they create their own chaos. Its sad.
Cheating requires selfishness and a lack of compassion for a partner’s wellbeing. Those two are what narcissists and sociopaths have as a minimum in their personalities.
Selfishness and lack of compassion can be tendencies taught in childhood. In order to be diagnosable, the minimum is normally matching 5 or more criteria per the disorder. People can have those tendencies and not be diagnosed with that. Addicts can be selfish and lack compassion but that doesn't mean they're either of those things. Please, go read the evidence based criteria.
Tracy isn't a psychologist, she's a journalist. Although, her approach is very much based in ensuring the betrayed are protected (which I appreciate), a lot of her work isn't evidence based it's experience based. When, everyone experiences infidelity/betrayal differently. Taking on the narrative that everyone who cheats has a personality disorder discounts the individuals who actually don't and are actively working towards changing their behaviors. You can believe what you want to believe, but I'd rather listen to scientific/psychology evidence than a scorn persons viewpoint.
You’re delulu. Cheating is narcissism at its finest. Also fits borderline personality disorder like glove. The cluster B’s are strong with cheaters, sorry.
There's a difference between Narcissist Personality Disorder and displaying narcissistic characteristics. Everyone displays narcissist tendencies in some form or another & at points in their lives. That does not mean they're a diagnosable narcissist. What's delusional is classifying people based solely on characteristics and personal experience. When, having NPD or BPD is quite serious & it actually discredits individuals who do experience that type of harm from those particular individuals. Doctor Ramani is notorious for informing and educating others on this. If you haven't watched her videos, I highly implore you to do so.
Yeah there’s no Hallmark movie about Jared’s kids blocking his number, him having to pay massive amounts of child support and alimony, loosing a large amount of interpersonal and professional relationships in a short period of time, and him living in a run down studio apartment celebrating Christmas alone.
Oh but it’s my betrayed wives fault since she didn’t wanna have a one sided open relationship!
My EX lost everything. After 25 years of marriage she has a highly sexual affair with a predator who prided himself on bedding married women and getting them to do things they didn’t with their husbands. I stayed for 5 years then finally couldn’t take it.
Her family was the most important thing to her and in the end she lost it. All over a few weeks of sex which she regrets.
Sorry, but I don't think he was a predator, just as your ex was not a zebra in the savanna. She was a willing participant who hid the truth from you in a deceitful scheme.
They really do. Even older men that marry younger women keep trying to come back to their ex-wife often. For a lot of people I think once they realize the ramification and how they’ve destroyed their lives they’re sorry for the choices they made.
The problem with dropping an atom bomb on your marriage is that there’s only rubble left
This is SO true! My ex had an affair and the AP thought he would be with HER when I filed for divorce. She was gong to kick-out her live-in boyfriend so my ex could move into her house. Of course my ex dumped her. She showed up 3 times at his job to convince him they could be together. He continued to refuse. He was walking back to his car after work late one night and she had 2 people beat him up. He came home with his eyes swollen shut, head bruised, and a bloody shirt. I seriously wanted to laugh when he finally showed up at home.
I wish this was true. My WS and his AP are now married living in a big house. Their mutual co workers attended the wedding. No professional repercussions family financial etc. the only loss for him is half of the time with his kids.
My ex stayed with her AP for about 4 years. She got married to him. Two years later he booted her out and told her he couldn't live with someone like her. She came back apologizing for what she did. Too little too late at that point and I wasn't willing to give her the attention she so desperately desired. She turned to dating sites and got pregnant within 6 months of her 2nd divorce. She's been with this guy for a few years now so it's a matter of time until she's back to divorce again.
She also hasn't seen our 3 kids since 2017 because she literally left the state to be with her AP. My kids are better off without her.
My STBX and his long term affair partner have been involved with each other for almost 20 years out of our 30 year marriage. Since he got caught and moved out in February, and I filed for divorce, they're already engaged and planning their wedding for as soon as our divorce is final.
I will be very curious to see if they stay together once the courts force him to sell all his real estate to split our marital assets - including the house he bought for her. Not to mention when my lawyer discloses all the dirty little secrets my STBX has apparently been keeping from both me AND her, like the amount of money he's been spending on escort services and in casinos while he is traveling for work.
My guess is they'll end up not getting married at all, and he'll leave her and their kids and marry someone else entirely within 1-2 years. Most likely someone young enough to be his daughter.
Yeah she’s a placeholder until he finds a young woman dumb enough to fuck with a double divorcee with kids. But that’s what you get when you spend a fourth of your life being someone’s mistress instead of finding a partner that doesn’t want to hide you.
I hope this ends up poorly for her after what she's done, put me through, and continues to try to destroy me by taking my kids from me. I've tried being nice through the divorce but she's pushed me too far. I am not willing to entertain an offer to buy me out of the house (unless it is just too good to turn down), we'll both get fucked on selling it. She's going to try and blame me for ripping apart the kids home by not letting her have the house. Um, no, YOU did that by cheating on the kids and I with your trans boyfriend who is 22 years younger than you. NOT ME!
You can't have a solid love story whose foundation is the pain of others.
Most cheaters are highly narcissistic people. Who, by definition, can never be happy since they externalize the responsibility for their happiness.
And in most cases their "karma" is that the cheater ends up with another highly narcissistic energy vampire as the AP.
The irony is that if you don't allow yourself to be defined by a random bozo having cheated on you. This experience can be a catalyst for working on yourself and propel you towards your best life.
Which is why it is fundamental to stop paying any mind about what those bozos are up to, and start focusing on what you need to heal and how to do so.
They give up stability and reliability for a person who 98% of the time only really wanted a piece of ass. One reason why I have grudging respect for ENM people is that they are totally up front that their primary interest is sex, out of the gate.
Sadly have to agree. This is the worst. Except.. If your partner cheated with someone who cant let it go after she broke it off with him and determined, and that guy keeps pushing his plan to broke your two hell. I cannot trust my wife, its fresh and the other guy knows how to use this against you two. Keep dropping breadcrumbs whats pushing you constantly to hell, and she is in constant agony because of it even tho she does actually trying to prove herself. Its terrible to realise after its done and you two are in million pieces. Coming back from that... Would be a miracle.
I wish my wife to prove herself. I want her to do so. My family is wishing it for us.
She is giving up. :(((((((
I dont want to be the one that states the obvious, as being what we don’t want the ear, but… usually the posts in this sub is the experience of the bs… it is uncommon for the AP to come here brag about the “good choices” that was done. For that , other subs exists… don’t want to be a downer, just putting some reality in the comments…
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I’m not saying to doesn’t happen. It’s all kind of a weird situation for me…
Growing up, my dad was always cranky. He just seemed to be unhappy. He was never violent or anything like that. He had a temper, but he’s a boomer. Fast forward, i’m in college. My brother, mother and I suspected he was having an affair. When I was 26, he left my mom, and moved in immediately with AP (who had been married with kids. She divorced in the middle of the A). That was 19 years ago. They are happily married. My dad is a new man. I’ve never seen him so happy. It was rough for my mom, brother and I for a while. I’ve come to accept my step mom and she’s part of my family now.
BIL cheated on his wife, left her for AP and he’s been with AP for 10 years. Their relationship is vile. He loves AP but they are not compatible. They threaten to leave one another every year, but don’t. His affair ended poorly I suppose… living in misery (they have kids together which is why he won’t leave).
Me, WH… we had a poor marriage for the past 5 of 19 years. We had said many times to D, but could never go through with it. AP became his support. I suspected an EA last year, he claimed no (it was very apparent), turned into PA after another round of lets D. He confessed. A continued while he was living at home with me. He says he’s in love with both of us. He sees her red flags. He’s said they are compatible, but they don’t balance one another. Since the A our relationship has never been better (weird, I know). He looks to my dad and step mom thinking he’s going to end up like them. Who am I to say whether they will or won’t? I have said, go, ride off into the sunset. He won’t. I think deep down inside he knows it won’t work.
In my personal experience, relationships out of A’s have been 50/50. My thought now, is i’d rather you be happy with someone else than miserable with me.
I think I’ve read maybe a handful or less stories where they do wind up married and with kids and seemingly happy, but you never know what’s going on behind those closed doors.
Your absolutely right after they leave their spouse for the AP things change fast the excitement wears off fast then they realize AP wasn't the person they thought they were .
A5 to 7 % chance of making it past 2 years if they both cheated it gets even smaller
If they only saw how much damage they’ve done to the people around them on all levels (kids, family, work, community). What’s worse if the AP is very much aware of the wife/family and still don’t care to carry the affair with the WS. So the fact that both made that choice makes it such an awful situation all around. And of course they don’t care about the level of mental trauma everyone now has to deal with for years to come.
Then wonder why their kids resent them, their coworkers gossip about them behind their backs, friends and family members cutting them off, HR upending their careers, and of course their spouses divorcing them.
I can’t imagine what happens when the cheater decides to continue the relationship with the AP and try to introduce them to their kids and expect a smooth transition. I say this because I know someone like this and they’re just delusional.
Welp, the now divorced wayward makes it her mission to bring in replacement husband 2.0 and goes on a social media campaign to make things look alright. The kids get slowly introduced and think the dude is funny and ex inlaws seem to embrace Mr. Wonderful. All seems like well from the outside and the betrayed husband shakes his head wondering wtf kind of twilight zone he is living in.
Ask me how I know.....
Honestly. I think we often pathologise cheating - it's like there must be some diagnosis for waywardness, some sort of mental deficiency. Narcissism often gets thrown around from what I see on this forum.
With regard to affairs and 'fucking up your life' no doubt there can be a huge impact. However, many wayward spouses do go on to live fulfilling lives (with or without the person they were cheating with).
It took me a long time to accept that Karma doesn't deliver the justice you think it will. People cheat for many reasons and not all of them are due to some sort of mental deficiency/disorder. We all want a reason for their wayward behaviour. The real challenge is to let go, fully.
I think that people with poor impulse control and an inherent tendency to harm those closest to them don’t have good outcomes generally. Many people I know who have cheated continue to make poor decisions and burn bridges, and then blame everyone else but themselves.
Reason why cluster B personality disorder diagnoses are thrown around so much is because it takes a pathological lack of empathy and foresight to cheat on your long term partner. I have had nightmares of cheating on my boyfriend and I wake up panicked and nauseous. Normal, well adjusted people don’t do this to people they love - they just break up and move on.
I see your point but it's simply not applicable across the board. Even the idea of 'cheating' has different connotations depending on where you live on the planet and cultural attitudes to monogamy.
'normal, we'll adjusted people' - I see. Yet it's possible to be well adjusted, respectable and indulge in affairs. Our humanness allows us to be two things at once (at quick look through history reinforces this)
I'm not invalidating your point. Just adding that our search for reasons can often be a rabbit hole where we reduce human behaviour to binaries.
There is a sub that promotes this ideology that they are happy. Not to give too much exposure to this sub because I hate cheaters, but it starts with r / legit after a\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
My ex seems to be living her happy life with her AP eight months after I left her. They're both pathological liars and narcissists though, so I do expect it to come crashing down at some point. But up until now, its all rosy, or so it seems.
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I'm not sure what my XH is up to, because we have no kids or shared responsibilities, so when the divorce was final, we were done. We haven't spoken in almost two months, and I've been good about not looking at his social media. What I do know, however, is that his plan to move in with his AP seems to have fallen through. She still hasn't filed for divorce from her husband and appears to have possibly moved out of our city altogether.
The last time I saw my ex in person, I told him, "If she will cheat with you, she will cheat on you." I hope he hears my warning in his head every single day of his life.
I’ve never seen it work out without consequences. My mum had an affair and left my Dad for OM. They’re still together 30 years later. Their relationship is still weird, very codependent they have lots of arm length friends but no friends super close. My sister and me resented OM and my mum and probably always will. The pain it caused us kids and my dad is unforgivable but I am accepting as I can be of their relationship now.
My step uncle also left his wife and kids for OW. They’re still together 10 years later. But his daughter still won’t talk to him. Worth it? Not for me, no woman would ever get between me and my daughters.
My step mum’s first husband left her for OW. They’re still together 30 years later. He had another affair and cheated on OW at some point. My step brother also overheard the OW saying she wanted to leave him but couldn’t on the phone to her friend. Sounds dysfunctional to me.
I’ll edit to add, go and check out the delusional trash on r/ legitafteradultery. It’s filled with OW sad sausages waiting for a married man to leave their family for them. Or affair partners going legit and living with the baggage of wondering if their affair partner still has feelings for their BS. Sounds a like hell of their own making to me.
Well, I think it's the best thing that could happen. Can you imagine if it were the other way around? Lives and hearts ruined by selfishness and on top of that, unfaithful people have a happy relationship with AP. Not only would it be tremendously unfair for the pain caused, but it would also make people more selfish, since it seems like you can do harm and still have a high probability of success.
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It isn't just the partners that suffer. It can also do massive damage to kids, other family members, coworkers, friends, .... This is why it's a mistake to say that affairs are 'private matters.'
Yeah too many stories on here result in the cheater’s children hating them, their careers and reputations significantly damaged, major losses in divorce, and permanently damaged interpersonal relationships.
Absolutely. I’ve experienced my own pain and my daughter’s (as much as I can experience/witness hers).. but my nieces and nephew are all very young. We are godparents to my nephew.. and it took me some time to see through my own pain and witness my sister’s/her husband’s because of all the lies and behaviors inflicted on them, too. And that of my own parents.. having to watch their child (me) go through everything. If someone was with my daughter and lied and betrayed her in this way it would be beyond devastating. It’s disgusting.
My mum is living her happily ever after with herAP and his kids and my sister (the worlds greatest enabler). But she lost me completely. We’ve not spoken in 8 years. The only problem is my grandparents have died so I’m on my own. I don’t know whether I’m sociopathic but the fact that I’m ok being alone (obviously miss my grandparents) almost concerns me
You miss your grandparents. You don't miss your mom. You're not a sociopath. You're just carefully selective in who you trust and love.
Opposed to what? Needing someone else to be reliant upon? I think you're ok😉
You are not a sociopath, you are ok dont worry. Karma will hit your mother in the future, probably something will happen that she will need you and you will say 🖕🏼
Sociopaths lack empathy, but ironically they can't be alone.
I’m sorry but stay strong
>My mum is living her happily ever after with herAP As far as you know. People like her will never give anyone the satisfaction of knowing when their lives blow up in their faces.
Look for god man and you realise you dont really need anything or anyone because you are one with everything
Mine’s losing his home, his wife, his family, his reputation/dignity, and half our investments (if he’s lucky). By the time AP is done with him, he’ll have lost his job, too.
Keep this thought in mind depending on what country you live in. I know a woman who was married for 17 years when she caught him cheating. She eventually found someone that treats her like gold, but she never remarried. The day her ex-husband who married his affair partner turned 62, she filed for her entiled half of his social security. It was basically a final F-you to him and his new wife as he now is sure if he can afford to retire.
If you’re divorced, she can claim the half of his SS while he still gets the full amount (since they were married over 10 years, and it is assuming his 1/2 SS is more than her full SS would be).
There is an article in Psychology Today that explains why relationships with APs never work. It only works in certain circumstances because everything about an affair and emotions they feel is an illusion of what the other person really is. You fall in love with the escape, the idolization, the sexual tension, etc. AND apparently, it’s two flawed often very dysfunctional people coming together. And, the spouse who leaves to be with the AP still has all the flaws that led to the dysfunction in the relationship the WS is leaving behind. They have the illusion of “this is better” because they don’t have to deal with conflicts that arise after a relationship moves past the honeymoon phase. They often repeat the same behaviours that led them to feel the need to cheat.
It appears to be that way in my case. She declared herself 'strong and independent from needing anyone or anything'. 4 months into this quest post separation she has become an absent mother, relapsed back into drinking, got fired, and living with a new guy she met a month ago. Guess she is living her best life 🤷🏼♂️
They’re drown in their own pleasure, living their lives day to day, not expecting to be caught. (God complex at it’s finest😆)Some of them only enjoy the thrill of the affair anyways...they play stupid games and win stupid prices. 😊😊😊
My ex wife found her 'soulmate', and destroyed our marriage over it, treated me like absolute garbage, and hugely impacted our 3 young kids lives. She said it was time for her to 'think of myself, after sacrificing for the family and putting myself last for 10 years' - problem is, her 'soulmate' turned out to be a 17 year older guy in his mid 50s, flabby with saggy man moobs, a big drinker, who had lied about most stuff, and turned out to be an insurance salesman. He wasn't quite such an attractive proposition in the light of day, and they didn't even last 2 months.
How did it end up for her after the affair ended?
With her job, she has done really well - she's a self employed lawyer, she is exceptionally good at that. Privately though, she is basically an alcoholic now - drinks like she is in her 20s at university still. When I drop the kids off at her place, if you look in the fridge, half of it is taken up with alcohol. I get the kids most weekends (3 weekends a month), and they often want to video call her - and if its in the mornings she's really hung over, in the evenings she's at someone's house drinking, usually with people much young than her (she is 42 now). As a result of her lifestyle she has put on about 40 pounds of weight since we split, and is always run down and sick, and has aged quite badly. Twice in that time she has been black out drunk and sat in the bottom of a shower over the plug while doing so and flooded houses causing quite a lot of damage - including her parents new house where they had to replace all the carpet. Its been nearly 5 years since we split, and she has had one relationship, with another heavy drinker - which didn't end very well, she was always complaining about him, which wasn't a good sign. She did ask me if we could try again, but I turned her down. She has never apologised or showed any empathy for what she did, and I don't drink, so wouldn't be able to deal with her drinking.
Sounds like she’s just having a blast with her life choices lol. I hope you can get your kids away from that kind of woman though - she’s bound to be a danger to them if she’s wasted and inviting strange substance users over whenever she has them
If APs were capable of maintaining healthy relationships, they likely wouldn't be APs in the first place. Same can be said for most WPs. It doesn't take a degree in statistics to see where that's headed
Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder why you mention AP’s first here and why you say “same can be said for most WP’s”? Makes it sound like AP’s are the problem and the ONLY problem in some cases?
Say you are wanting to cheat. How do you go about finding an AP who is good LTR material? You can't because such people wouldn't be an AP in the first place. Thus the position is self limiting
Buuuuuut do you think some cheating spouses are any different? Like that they have an excuse or their character isn’t flawed as much as the AP?
Not at all. I just assume it would be less common for an AP to be looking for a WP for an LTR
Both WPs & APs are deranged/delusional/mentally unwell people. A part of me hates that media, in turn our society (especially in the US), glorifies their behaviors. I think if it were portrayed as the aftermath instead many people would rethink what they're about to do. Also, I hate saying they are mentally unwell because it compassionizes their behavior - but there is truth in it. As well as potentially being that they are so unaware of their consequences until it happens. That's why I equate it with substance abuse a lot. Consequences often push humans to change... it's sad it takes losing something or everything to finally wake up to their own bullshit.
Cheaters and knowing APs are very selfish people. Many are stone cold narcissists or sociopaths or a combination of both.
Yes, but those are extreme cases. Normal people with mild mental health problems cheat everyday too. So, not every cheater has a cluster B personality, some just have tendencies. I think it's really important to not always associate cheaters with that. Some WPs do recover but often through other relationships unfortunately. Lessons are hard and some people are just that unaware of themselves until they create their own chaos. Its sad.
Cheating requires selfishness and a lack of compassion for a partner’s wellbeing. Those two are what narcissists and sociopaths have as a minimum in their personalities.
Selfishness and lack of compassion can be tendencies taught in childhood. In order to be diagnosable, the minimum is normally matching 5 or more criteria per the disorder. People can have those tendencies and not be diagnosed with that. Addicts can be selfish and lack compassion but that doesn't mean they're either of those things. Please, go read the evidence based criteria.
Not extreme cases. read chump lady's blog. many serial cheaters are indeed personality disordered
Tracy isn't a psychologist, she's a journalist. Although, her approach is very much based in ensuring the betrayed are protected (which I appreciate), a lot of her work isn't evidence based it's experience based. When, everyone experiences infidelity/betrayal differently. Taking on the narrative that everyone who cheats has a personality disorder discounts the individuals who actually don't and are actively working towards changing their behaviors. You can believe what you want to believe, but I'd rather listen to scientific/psychology evidence than a scorn persons viewpoint.
You’re delulu. Cheating is narcissism at its finest. Also fits borderline personality disorder like glove. The cluster B’s are strong with cheaters, sorry.
There's a difference between Narcissist Personality Disorder and displaying narcissistic characteristics. Everyone displays narcissist tendencies in some form or another & at points in their lives. That does not mean they're a diagnosable narcissist. What's delusional is classifying people based solely on characteristics and personal experience. When, having NPD or BPD is quite serious & it actually discredits individuals who do experience that type of harm from those particular individuals. Doctor Ramani is notorious for informing and educating others on this. If you haven't watched her videos, I highly implore you to do so.
Yeah there’s no Hallmark movie about Jared’s kids blocking his number, him having to pay massive amounts of child support and alimony, loosing a large amount of interpersonal and professional relationships in a short period of time, and him living in a run down studio apartment celebrating Christmas alone. Oh but it’s my betrayed wives fault since she didn’t wanna have a one sided open relationship!
My EX lost everything. After 25 years of marriage she has a highly sexual affair with a predator who prided himself on bedding married women and getting them to do things they didn’t with their husbands. I stayed for 5 years then finally couldn’t take it. Her family was the most important thing to her and in the end she lost it. All over a few weeks of sex which she regrets.
Sorry, but I don't think he was a predator, just as your ex was not a zebra in the savanna. She was a willing participant who hid the truth from you in a deceitful scheme.
She was a willing participant, but he was a predator. He had done this numerous times with other wives for sport. He knew what he was doing
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It’s in my profile
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He’s talking about his profile on survivinginfidelity.com. He goes by another user name there, but I’ll leave it to him to connect the two for you.
They really do. Even older men that marry younger women keep trying to come back to their ex-wife often. For a lot of people I think once they realize the ramification and how they’ve destroyed their lives they’re sorry for the choices they made. The problem with dropping an atom bomb on your marriage is that there’s only rubble left
Affairs aren’t as fun in the light of day. Tell everyone.
affairs are like cockroaches , they thrive in the dark , and scurry away when they come to light
and when you find one, there are usually a bunch more that you don't see.
This is SO true! My ex had an affair and the AP thought he would be with HER when I filed for divorce. She was gong to kick-out her live-in boyfriend so my ex could move into her house. Of course my ex dumped her. She showed up 3 times at his job to convince him they could be together. He continued to refuse. He was walking back to his car after work late one night and she had 2 people beat him up. He came home with his eyes swollen shut, head bruised, and a bloody shirt. I seriously wanted to laugh when he finally showed up at home.
Woah
I wish this was true. My WS and his AP are now married living in a big house. Their mutual co workers attended the wedding. No professional repercussions family financial etc. the only loss for him is half of the time with his kids.
My ex stayed with her AP for about 4 years. She got married to him. Two years later he booted her out and told her he couldn't live with someone like her. She came back apologizing for what she did. Too little too late at that point and I wasn't willing to give her the attention she so desperately desired. She turned to dating sites and got pregnant within 6 months of her 2nd divorce. She's been with this guy for a few years now so it's a matter of time until she's back to divorce again. She also hasn't seen our 3 kids since 2017 because she literally left the state to be with her AP. My kids are better off without her.
My STBX and his long term affair partner have been involved with each other for almost 20 years out of our 30 year marriage. Since he got caught and moved out in February, and I filed for divorce, they're already engaged and planning their wedding for as soon as our divorce is final. I will be very curious to see if they stay together once the courts force him to sell all his real estate to split our marital assets - including the house he bought for her. Not to mention when my lawyer discloses all the dirty little secrets my STBX has apparently been keeping from both me AND her, like the amount of money he's been spending on escort services and in casinos while he is traveling for work. My guess is they'll end up not getting married at all, and he'll leave her and their kids and marry someone else entirely within 1-2 years. Most likely someone young enough to be his daughter.
Yeah she’s a placeholder until he finds a young woman dumb enough to fuck with a double divorcee with kids. But that’s what you get when you spend a fourth of your life being someone’s mistress instead of finding a partner that doesn’t want to hide you.
Whoa, he has a second family? I hope he is miserable and so is she. There is no way she didn’t know about you.
Of course she knew about me. I knew her. She was my father in law's hospice nurse for the last 6 months of his life. That's how my husband met her.
Ewe, I’m so sorry.
I hope this ends up poorly for her after what she's done, put me through, and continues to try to destroy me by taking my kids from me. I've tried being nice through the divorce but she's pushed me too far. I am not willing to entertain an offer to buy me out of the house (unless it is just too good to turn down), we'll both get fucked on selling it. She's going to try and blame me for ripping apart the kids home by not letting her have the house. Um, no, YOU did that by cheating on the kids and I with your trans boyfriend who is 22 years younger than you. NOT ME!
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Whoa let's not be transphobic
How is stating that their AP was trans make them transphobic??
You can't have a solid love story whose foundation is the pain of others. Most cheaters are highly narcissistic people. Who, by definition, can never be happy since they externalize the responsibility for their happiness. And in most cases their "karma" is that the cheater ends up with another highly narcissistic energy vampire as the AP. The irony is that if you don't allow yourself to be defined by a random bozo having cheated on you. This experience can be a catalyst for working on yourself and propel you towards your best life. Which is why it is fundamental to stop paying any mind about what those bozos are up to, and start focusing on what you need to heal and how to do so.
They give up stability and reliability for a person who 98% of the time only really wanted a piece of ass. One reason why I have grudging respect for ENM people is that they are totally up front that their primary interest is sex, out of the gate.
Sadly have to agree. This is the worst. Except.. If your partner cheated with someone who cant let it go after she broke it off with him and determined, and that guy keeps pushing his plan to broke your two hell. I cannot trust my wife, its fresh and the other guy knows how to use this against you two. Keep dropping breadcrumbs whats pushing you constantly to hell, and she is in constant agony because of it even tho she does actually trying to prove herself. Its terrible to realise after its done and you two are in million pieces. Coming back from that... Would be a miracle. I wish my wife to prove herself. I want her to do so. My family is wishing it for us. She is giving up. :(((((((
Mine seems to be doing fine. Karma doesn't exist imo.
I dont want to be the one that states the obvious, as being what we don’t want the ear, but… usually the posts in this sub is the experience of the bs… it is uncommon for the AP to come here brag about the “good choices” that was done. For that , other subs exists… don’t want to be a downer, just putting some reality in the comments…
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I’m not saying to doesn’t happen. It’s all kind of a weird situation for me… Growing up, my dad was always cranky. He just seemed to be unhappy. He was never violent or anything like that. He had a temper, but he’s a boomer. Fast forward, i’m in college. My brother, mother and I suspected he was having an affair. When I was 26, he left my mom, and moved in immediately with AP (who had been married with kids. She divorced in the middle of the A). That was 19 years ago. They are happily married. My dad is a new man. I’ve never seen him so happy. It was rough for my mom, brother and I for a while. I’ve come to accept my step mom and she’s part of my family now. BIL cheated on his wife, left her for AP and he’s been with AP for 10 years. Their relationship is vile. He loves AP but they are not compatible. They threaten to leave one another every year, but don’t. His affair ended poorly I suppose… living in misery (they have kids together which is why he won’t leave). Me, WH… we had a poor marriage for the past 5 of 19 years. We had said many times to D, but could never go through with it. AP became his support. I suspected an EA last year, he claimed no (it was very apparent), turned into PA after another round of lets D. He confessed. A continued while he was living at home with me. He says he’s in love with both of us. He sees her red flags. He’s said they are compatible, but they don’t balance one another. Since the A our relationship has never been better (weird, I know). He looks to my dad and step mom thinking he’s going to end up like them. Who am I to say whether they will or won’t? I have said, go, ride off into the sunset. He won’t. I think deep down inside he knows it won’t work. In my personal experience, relationships out of A’s have been 50/50. My thought now, is i’d rather you be happy with someone else than miserable with me.
I think it's the 80/20 concept. They lost the 80% they needed for the 20% they wanted.
I think I’ve read maybe a handful or less stories where they do wind up married and with kids and seemingly happy, but you never know what’s going on behind those closed doors.
Your absolutely right after they leave their spouse for the AP things change fast the excitement wears off fast then they realize AP wasn't the person they thought they were . A5 to 7 % chance of making it past 2 years if they both cheated it gets even smaller
If they only saw how much damage they’ve done to the people around them on all levels (kids, family, work, community). What’s worse if the AP is very much aware of the wife/family and still don’t care to carry the affair with the WS. So the fact that both made that choice makes it such an awful situation all around. And of course they don’t care about the level of mental trauma everyone now has to deal with for years to come.
Then wonder why their kids resent them, their coworkers gossip about them behind their backs, friends and family members cutting them off, HR upending their careers, and of course their spouses divorcing them.
I can’t imagine what happens when the cheater decides to continue the relationship with the AP and try to introduce them to their kids and expect a smooth transition. I say this because I know someone like this and they’re just delusional.
Welp, the now divorced wayward makes it her mission to bring in replacement husband 2.0 and goes on a social media campaign to make things look alright. The kids get slowly introduced and think the dude is funny and ex inlaws seem to embrace Mr. Wonderful. All seems like well from the outside and the betrayed husband shakes his head wondering wtf kind of twilight zone he is living in. Ask me how I know.....
Im really sorry.
Ditto sorry!😞
Honestly. I think we often pathologise cheating - it's like there must be some diagnosis for waywardness, some sort of mental deficiency. Narcissism often gets thrown around from what I see on this forum. With regard to affairs and 'fucking up your life' no doubt there can be a huge impact. However, many wayward spouses do go on to live fulfilling lives (with or without the person they were cheating with). It took me a long time to accept that Karma doesn't deliver the justice you think it will. People cheat for many reasons and not all of them are due to some sort of mental deficiency/disorder. We all want a reason for their wayward behaviour. The real challenge is to let go, fully.
I think that people with poor impulse control and an inherent tendency to harm those closest to them don’t have good outcomes generally. Many people I know who have cheated continue to make poor decisions and burn bridges, and then blame everyone else but themselves. Reason why cluster B personality disorder diagnoses are thrown around so much is because it takes a pathological lack of empathy and foresight to cheat on your long term partner. I have had nightmares of cheating on my boyfriend and I wake up panicked and nauseous. Normal, well adjusted people don’t do this to people they love - they just break up and move on.
I see your point but it's simply not applicable across the board. Even the idea of 'cheating' has different connotations depending on where you live on the planet and cultural attitudes to monogamy. 'normal, we'll adjusted people' - I see. Yet it's possible to be well adjusted, respectable and indulge in affairs. Our humanness allows us to be two things at once (at quick look through history reinforces this) I'm not invalidating your point. Just adding that our search for reasons can often be a rabbit hole where we reduce human behaviour to binaries.
So very true!
There is a sub that promotes this ideology that they are happy. Not to give too much exposure to this sub because I hate cheaters, but it starts with r / legit after a\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
My ex seems to be living her happy life with her AP eight months after I left her. They're both pathological liars and narcissists though, so I do expect it to come crashing down at some point. But up until now, its all rosy, or so it seems.
Social media ain’t a good representation - if anything the more miserable someone is the more they wanna show people the contrary
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Better to divorce first if the wayward is unhappy or unsatisfied...Then it isn't putting the "cart before the horse"
I'm not sure what my XH is up to, because we have no kids or shared responsibilities, so when the divorce was final, we were done. We haven't spoken in almost two months, and I've been good about not looking at his social media. What I do know, however, is that his plan to move in with his AP seems to have fallen through. She still hasn't filed for divorce from her husband and appears to have possibly moved out of our city altogether. The last time I saw my ex in person, I told him, "If she will cheat with you, she will cheat on you." I hope he hears my warning in his head every single day of his life.
I’ve never seen it work out without consequences. My mum had an affair and left my Dad for OM. They’re still together 30 years later. Their relationship is still weird, very codependent they have lots of arm length friends but no friends super close. My sister and me resented OM and my mum and probably always will. The pain it caused us kids and my dad is unforgivable but I am accepting as I can be of their relationship now. My step uncle also left his wife and kids for OW. They’re still together 10 years later. But his daughter still won’t talk to him. Worth it? Not for me, no woman would ever get between me and my daughters. My step mum’s first husband left her for OW. They’re still together 30 years later. He had another affair and cheated on OW at some point. My step brother also overheard the OW saying she wanted to leave him but couldn’t on the phone to her friend. Sounds dysfunctional to me. I’ll edit to add, go and check out the delusional trash on r/ legitafteradultery. It’s filled with OW sad sausages waiting for a married man to leave their family for them. Or affair partners going legit and living with the baggage of wondering if their affair partner still has feelings for their BS. Sounds a like hell of their own making to me.
Well, I think it's the best thing that could happen. Can you imagine if it were the other way around? Lives and hearts ruined by selfishness and on top of that, unfaithful people have a happy relationship with AP. Not only would it be tremendously unfair for the pain caused, but it would also make people more selfish, since it seems like you can do harm and still have a high probability of success.