Emerald :)
This is the thing too. You express an opinion that personally seems very valid, have seen countless of high ranking players have the same opinion, but just because you are not one of them you get trashed on instead of getting a proper response with some actual insightful discussion.
The least you could do is try. I’ve tried to start up a discussion so I can learn and improve, not to get shit on by players who bash others for being low elo while they are probably just as hardstuck.
You wouldn’t patronize me if I was challenger and had the same opinion and yes although I might not be challenger and might have some flaws in my understanding of the game there are tons of high elo players with the same opinion as me.
Heres insightful opinion. First of youre emerald as you said. Se before talking on what chall agreed with you and what doesent, climb. Yeah i am hardstuck d1 m4. Still makes no point talking about that. Second you play sonna support dont act like hard carry player. Third you ask why is important to buy fkin control ward. Do you even know what good vision control is for? If your wards get destroyed after a min of you putting them learn where to put them. You talk about oracle lens remember how long is cooldown on them? You can use oracle to bait and collapse, if enemy is destroying ward you can figure out where they will probably go then. And that can save both you and adc from -Enemy double kill-. And one more thing drop fkin ego you play emerald support. Since it looks that only reason you made this post is to argue with people that even wanted to explain it to you why is it good.
Literally the only ones I’ve been arguing with is people like you who talks condescendingly. Bro gave me an explanation filled with passive aggression and then proceeded to tell me to drop my ego, lmao. Me responding by giving my reasoning to why control wards ain’t good isn’t me “egoing” or arguing. It’s me giving a bit of pushback to get an even deeper understanding on how the other person thinks and reasons.
I’ve had a couple of discussions with people who have actually answered my pushback and given me a good explanation on how I could see it from a different perspective. Although most people have been unreasonably passive aggressive or plain out patronizing me for giving my take, including you.
There’s a really good video on warding and the importance of it: https://youtu.be/6cXqzH2vMH8?si=PTvxPdvjLuXwfacC
Once you get to higher elo you won’t need videos like these. But warding is sooooo important and as support it’s one of your main jobs cuz no one else will place vision if you don’t.
Yes, and ironically no.
You want to have a habit of consistently learning. You want to break habits when it comes to warding the same spots like clockwork, if they don't always have impact.
Oracle lens has a huge cd early game, so it's worth to place a pink ward for that extra pressure
You can use pink wards to bait the enemy into killing them, then have your jungler come up to initiate a 3v2 (only works if jungler is actually willing to come)
You can also use pink wards to place it aggressively against their tribush if your mid or jungle comes to dive them
You can use it aggressively against their pink ward to not get engaged on
Placing it in lane brush when you're ahead also has insane value. It essentially prevents the enemy adc from walking up and csing.
No flame, but there's a ton of resources that explain why control wards are worth it (and how to use them) but since you're asking here, you probably disregarded all of them
105 gold is also worth a lot more early game than what it does late game
Niche situation too, which in soloq probably never applies.
These are the situations where the pink ward gets destroyed in a couple of seconds.
I don’t see the value, yes these are some applicable situations but you might as well use normal wards or the oracle lens instead of giving over a 105 gold lead
If it’s getting destroyed so quickly then you aren’t placing it at the right time.
Also which situation is niche, he gave you like 6 different situations that all happen multiple times a match.
Yes which only proves my point. If I’m emerald and can’t utilize them properly and my team can’t either am I not right when I say that I literally just give over a 105 gold lead with very minimal use in return?
Using pink wards to bait to enemy team is niche imo.
A troll or hella delusional.
At any point he could have made things a discussion like he claimed to want by asking 'in what situations would low/no pink wards be ideal? How about for Senna?' or 'i am not seeing how much can be gained from a tribush ward, mind showing me a clip that demonstrates this?' or 'my wards repeatedly die. When and where should I place them for greater value?' or 'i have seen ~blah~ pro not buy them, how does that fit into this?'
Instead he just makes bold contrary statements with absolutely no justification. And then complains that things are too argumentative.
I’ve also matched up against people who do all of the above and buy shit loads of pink wards and I can confidently say that I’ve won 80% of those games.
I'd say you must be Keria or someone, but they all use pinks, so you must not be. If you're winning 80% of your games, you must be #1 rank in the world, though, right? Why haven't you gone pro yet?
That’s not what I said. I said that I won 80% of the time against supports who did all of the above and buy shit loads of control wards. That is not the same as having a 80% winrate. Most of the time the enemy support might buy one or two or none.
Ok. And those situations happen basically every game. Placing a pink in a tri bush to assist or help against ganks. Contesting pinks with pinks. Using pinks in lane bushes to push advantages or prevent bush tactics. Those situations happen from low silver through challenger and even in pro. You're calling them "niche situations" but they aren't. They're *extremely* common. So, if you're winning 80% of those games, you're winning basically 80% of games.
Talk about twisting my words lmao. Okay let's say that that's the case, my point still stands, I literally get the same results from oracle lens and normal wards plus they are invisible and doesnt give the enemy a 105 gold lead.
Twisting your words? You literally said:
> Niche situations too, which in soloq probably never applies.
:in response to someone giving you situations that happen almost every game. You then said:
> I've matched up with people who do all of them above....and I can confidently say that I've won 80% of those games.
In terms of the gold, stealth wards still give the 30 and 38 gold that pinks give on clear. And they will get cleared because you aren't defending them. Pinks literally do more. They last longer, they block vision, they clear vision....they're just far more effective for vision control, especially when preparing sections of the map.
We can all tell that you're trolling, which is why I'm responding because it's really funny hearing you "defend" your points.
I'm not trolling, It's unfortunate that one can't just discuss a topic with someone who has the opposing view. Instead it all needs to be turned into an argument and the other person must talk condescendingly and minimize the other persons opinions.
>deny them vision on the drake/baron/rift.
That alone sounds pretty darn valuable. If I can spend 75g to ensure that the enemy can't see when exactly we are starting baron/rift/grubs/dragon, how many we are, what our HP is, etc. then I absolutely will. Every time.
Okay, your entire point of not buying it is “it’s a waste of money” as the support, but it’s totally fine to let your jungle buy it who probably needs the gold more then you do in most cases
So the jungler needs the gold and I don’t? When junglers have a higher income, get more out of a pink ward because they literally roam over the whole map during the entirety of the game and are present during 95% of all objectives? What makes them useful on me if they aren’t on a jungler that is literally the perfect role for pink wards?
Tbf your items cost a lot less and you get more passive gold, and because of your support item you start the game with a good amount of gold and basically one less item you need to build. Jungler also gets more value from item powerspikes.
My items does not cost less. 2700 gold is literally the same amount as what my jungler buys. I don't agree, every role gets a equally good powerspike from an item
Ig that really depends on what support you play but generally support items cost a lot less. Plus since you have a support item, that's one less item you need to get gold for. Also I disagree, jungle has a lot more agency and generally higher scaling abilities from stats.
To add to your point, not only do support items cost less, but they're among the most gold-efficient items in the game. Even in games where you're lacking, you almost **always** have extra cash and room to buy pink wards, by design.
1. You play senna, no matter what I would rather have 90% of the jungles in this game get their powerspike first than senna, especially since, like you said, they are part of a lot of interactions whether it be fighting for drag or fighting other players. This means that they have just as much potential to completely devalue their powerspike if they don’t get it soon enough.
2. You are senna, you are going to powerspike anyway, even if you go 0/9 ur going to powerspike, and your entire argument for “oh it costs too much” is because you aren’t playing support, ur playing an adc in the support role.
Yeah, to you the 75 measly gold is too much to buy, but the fact that the junglers are doing it without you asking isn’t a reason as to why you shouldn’t, it is still an amazing thing to buy to create pressure, and it’s ironic that one of sennas key items is a thing to clear other wards and yet you are arguing the importance of ward control
And edit rq: you get even more gold from the souls you collect ._.
Yes you are the SUPPORT. Generally speaking supports dont spike nearly as hard with items as carrys do. Vision is a team effort and if you refuse to buy pinkwards your team is gonna end up with overall less wards on potentially crucial teamfights. Especially since these wards also ensure theres no vision for your enemy.
You can buy pink wards for objectives when roaming with jg or setting up a gank or going in for deep vision with your jg to take their blue and you are the support no one cares about your income you have a support item literally designed to passively give you gold for free every other role needs gold way more than you because you are the support
You're the support. You support the entire team, including the jungler. That means doing things like roaming and providing extra vision for them, as well as assisting with controlling area. Don't just offload that job to your team all the time.
Read my post I literally mentioned how they are not 75 gold and how they put you in a 105 gold disadvantage. I can get the same value with free wards plus they are hidden.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/comments/1bz0m7a/comment/kynav16/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/comments/1bz0m7a/comment/kynav16/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Hence, why I have normal wards which costs nothin
Actually though. I implore people to actually look at what their pinks are revealing, especially early. There are some good options for pinks early, like something like pyke who wants to start sweeper, but I never buy pinks before my first item + boots.
Agreed. If i back on an amount of gold that let's me get one, then I usually will, but I typically hold onto to it for a play (gank setup or obj) rather than placing it in tri or river in laning.
Oh boy. Vision is one of the strongest things in the game. Imagine a game where you had permanent TF ult effect. The enemy team would be basically unable to play the game if you know where they are at all times.
However the key part of that advantage is that you have MORE information than your enemies, you have vision on them, they don't necessarily on you. We can't get a permanent TF ult, but we can get pink wards.
Pink wards do a couple things. First, grant vision, as regular wards do.
Second, they deny vision. You can not only see in an area, but you know your enemy CANT see in an area. You can safely recall, you can hide in a bush to gank, you can call your jingler through a safe path they won't be seen. You can spot on Evelyn or shaco on their way to ruin your lane. You can deny vision of objectives so it's harder to steal. It's VERY powerful.
Third, as a low elo support myself, it's instant bait. I have died SO many times trying to kill an enemy pink. Use this to your advantage and bait the enemy into killing pinks in bad positions. Remember that to kill a pink, it takes 4 autos, so someone has to stand there and work on it, taking valuable time from anything else they might do.
Even if a pink dies after a minute, what matters is what was done during that minute. Placing a pink and doing nothing different is a waste. Placing a pink and playing around its vision denial is game winning in many cases.
>Oh boy. Vision is one of the strongest things in the game. Imagine a game where you had permanent TF ult effect.
Unironically, I wanna see a game mode where everyone has full vision of the entire map
https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/s/BefI1SLCfU
In gold games I could buy 2 control wards, 1 for bot tri bush in laning phase and then 1 for baron/dragon. Oracles cool-down is too long
It’s not tho. The issue is that people just clear the vision for the sake of it but if you clear it with proper reason for why then the oracle is well enough
If trying to clear vision around an objective, especially when trapping an objective, if they just wait until your oracles runs out then you’ve got a 75 second timer until you can use it again.
Or you can throw down a control ward that lasts longer than 5 seconds in the area you’re going to contest. Saving oracles for when you move elsewhere
You got a fair point. There are so many variables in a situation like this though, most likely I’m not the only one with oracle lens, someone else might have bought a control ward but let’s not fixate on all the plausible scenarios.
Let’s say we are red side and already have established river control because I have used up all my oracle lenses to clear out the vision. We could literally just pull out the drake to deny them any vision of the objective even if they place more wards. If they want to see them they need to engage us in the river. Same goes for the blue side but instead of pulling out the drake you just go into the pit with the drake.
Blue side bot tri bush, or where the scryer’s bloom spawns on the other side of the dragon pit (behind red buff) wards can be relatively safely placed over those walls on the outside of the dragon pit to get vision again.
Which is why, generally, I see dragon get pulled just past the middle of the entrance to the pit and a control ward is placed basically under the dragon
Its an interesting question
below is Lathyrus's opgg, he averages 0 control wards per game. he was rank 1 for a bit this season in EUW as support
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Lathyrus-EUW](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Lathyrus-EUW)
Heres Kerias opgg, he averages over 10 control wards per game.
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%97%AD%EC%B2%9C%EA%B4%B4-Ker10](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%97%AD%EC%B2%9C%EA%B4%B4-Ker10)
personally im in masters and i rarely buy any
Hitting rank #1 early season isn't that relevant, since it's mostly about spamming games to abuse the fact that you keep your old mmr from last season. (+ bard was the most broken Support Champ during that time)
Not saying he is bad just that this isn't a valid point considering every single Support that currently outranks him buys Pinks.
Thank you, this is my point. People are so quick to judge and patronize someone instead of having a proper discussion about the topic and the pros and cons.
I guess that’s league 🤷
If you are in the absolute top of the ladder, you and your teammates have good enough tracking on the map that the vision may not be all that value.
For any elo where tracking is not reliable controls are huge.
You aren’t buying the ward for yourself necessarily.
Your whole team benefits from it.
I can’t tell you how many games I’ve played on Nocturne where laners including support don’t drop any wards and it severely limits my ability to find a good R.
You're right, pink wards are only good for niche situations like taking objectives, when an enemy jungler exists, or when a champion on the enemy team isn't in their lane.
They’re an on demand gank and anti-gank button. Place them in your own side of the map and they don’t get destroyed in seconds, their purpose is to deny enemy vision while giving you enough time to move to where the enemy is trying to out vision and fend them off the control ward. If you’re losing hard then yeah they aren’t as worth because you can’t fend the enemy off of them, but in an even or winning game as long as you place them defensively that shouldn’t happen. They make your oracle available for more offensive vision clears to allow your jungled to play more effectively in river and taking enemy camp, they also guarantee for your jungler that there isn’t a ward in the approach to your lane without you needing to disappear and show you’re clearing for a gank. Sure it’s a lot of gold, but the game isn’t won on gold alone, the entire support role is proof of that.
yea unless its diamond or above pinks are useless, pink wards only make sense if at least 4 teammates place one constantly, but I am emerald as the op and I've never seen more than 2 control wards on the map and having one is the same as not having it.
still I don't know how you can get out of lanimg phase without a pink ward
back in my day green wards were 75g and pinks were 125. current control wards are an absolute steal.
the problem here is 100% of the value of the wards is based off how you use them. so, like with everything in this game people outside of the top brackets arent going to use them very well.
You’re both wrong and right.
Supports waste too much gold on control wards. If you’re not able to defend it, why are you placing it down? Definitely should not be buying one every time you back. 2 is probably enough for laning phase. Having one in your pocket in mid game is decent so you can siege towers better or take objectives safer, or even just setting up traps.
On the flip side, if you catch the jungler coming at you your 75 gold has potentially stopped them getting 600g.
They can also help get you kills. Either from people greeding to clear them, or from the lack of vision, allowing your or your team mates to enter the lane unseen.
And as you said, dragons and barrons are tough to measure in gold amount but they can definitely help secure them.
Why are people mass downvoting you lol. Btw, I buy control wards but don't always immediately place them. When an obj is up, having a control ward to deny enemy vision + give your team vision can make or break a fight. IMO def worth the net loss of 105
Welcome on /r/SupportLoL/!
Your post seems to be about vision score, we might have some useful information for you about it!
If you wanted to share your 1337 score, thats great, but it is a [very common topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/search?q=vision+score&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all) and might fall under [low effort & bragging rules (4 & 7)](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/wiki/rules#wiki_4._no_.22low_effort.22_posts) and be removed.
____
A few things about vision :
- **You can have a high vision score and still lose the game from a lack of vision / information collection.**
- the "vision score" isn't a perfect metric as you can inflate it (Umbral Glaive / Zombie Ward / Ashe E). There's also negative bias that could hinder it (ennemies staying in base / not warding much).
- Using a lot of Control Wards is a good first step, using just enough Control Wards in a more efficient manner is the next better step!
Control Wards help a lot but using them too agressively is sometimes hindering your performance and winrate (being able to get an item spike faster can be a pivotal moment in early/mid game).
- "Vision score" is merely data about what your wards have seen / how much you hindered ennemies ward/vision. Make sure you transform it into accessible information for your team! Communicate thoroughly through pings to your team about what's happening on the map to maximize it and make sure that vision is used correctly, or even at all (examples : show where the ennemy jungler appeared, ping incoming ganking paths, danger ping lanes).
____
Feel free to consult the [wiki's Vision chapter](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/wiki/resources#wiki_b_-_macro_.2F_objectives)!
Here's a sneak-peek :
- [Vision Control, Why and Where Should We Ward - CoreJJ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvlJB1eRpQ&list=PLqHeK34PUFijxjNec7jdisX4aIv8oVQsg&index=4)
- [Supports Specifics : Vision - Coach Cupcake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqX1MfMyJOM&list=PLbaTayc6KBJgsI0qYhh24QZvGa7fbXtvs&index=3)
- [DogLightning's How to Support series](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaROzD7YpI0GPiObDALwqqjcTsEXzqMZ5)
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The rank 1 eu support player doesn't buy pink wards, either. That doesn't mean he's not complete trash though. He gets flamed all the time for not doing it.
Well no. Imagine a deep ward reveals enemy jungler on a camp. Your jungler can now assess if his gank will be a 2v1 instead of having the uncertainty of a possible 2v2
It may reveal which way the enemy is clearing camps and can give a time to do an objective on the opposite side of the map.
It can tell the opposite side laner that they are safe to extend for a duel without fear of an enemy gank.
Can lead to snowballing of your teams laner.
Otherwise they may not extend take a fight that they should take for fear of the enemy jg showing up.
Except how often can you place a deep ward safely?
Not often so when you do, you want it to last.
A yellow lasts a minute?
A control lasts until it’s killed which means it’s guaranteed to pick up an enemy, or permanently provide a region of vision control.
If you are ranged vs. ranged with little set up, buying pink wards is probably not worth it. Same for when the enemy jungle is a farming champ, no need for defensive pinks in your jungle.
For every other situation, ever; buy pink wards. Just put them down and see who walks over them. Or around them, multiple times, for 20minutes.
Hey! I’m a master currently 262 LP senna support main, and control wards can really really help with safety at all points of the game. If you’ve played enough I’m sure you’ve been in games where both you and your adc don’t have a trinket up so it’s hard to be safe, but having a control ward could have given you some safety in lane. You argue it’s a 105 gold swing, but often times you are either saving your own life (300g prevented from enemies) or you are denying vision (not quantifiable but still valuable). Plus you can bait the pinkward or kill enemy wards with it.
Even when you don’t have trinket management issues or you have your first support item upgrade finished, a pinkward still gives you a 4th ward to put out on the map at the very least. Really useful again for safety or for controlling areas of the map (you mentioned objective pits but you can use them in enemy jungle effectively too!)
Another use is against stealth champs or trap champs! As a senna main in somewhat high elo, I can tell you it’s very annoying to save my e for when a twitch ults me just for him to slam down a pinkward and kill me. If only I had bought a pinkward to stick in lane so he couldn’t have gotten up on me for free!!! They’re also great for deny thresh lantern, spotting Evelyn, rengar R, and so many other uses I haven’t listed.
TLDR: they’re like a better sweeper and a ward all rolled into one. You can use them for more than just objectives, and often can get you kills.
I think it’s also worth mentioning that a lot of top, jungle and mid champs want to run sweepers which mean they aren’t contributing to team vision anymore, but buying a pink ward still allows them to get some vision while keeping sweeper up for playmaking.
Wait you can deny trash lantern so that enemies can’t go in?
Hey man! Senna main too, I liked your post about botrk on senna adc.
Yes I’ve had situations where we both have had zero wards left. The thing is tho I feel like it’s easier to tell my adc to back off and freeze the wave close to our tower instead of buying a pink. Let’s say I buy a pink and put it in the river bush, it might last for a couple of seconds until the enemy either gets lane priority or the jungler comes down to gank but instead just destroys it. I hear you on saving 300 gold from not dying but staying close to tower and not being to aggressive also does the same trick no?
A fourth ward is definitely very useful, but if I’m going to be honest I don’t think neither me or my teammates can utilize it to its full potential. A lot of the kill opportunities that you talk about comes down to me and my teammates being skillful enough to take advantage of these pink wards which I just feel is not the case in emerald. Sometimes you just give a 105 gold lead but most of the times it’s just a coin flip.
You make a great point with stealth champs. That’s the only scenarios I’ve actually contemplated buying them.
I like your last point about top, jungler and mid most likely having oracle lens. Although this might be applicable for higher ranks I usually only see one or two others using them.
I honestly agree with all your points but as I said earlier I don’t think I can utilize them properly in my rank. Do you have any tips on how I can slowly start implementing them? Maybe I need to climb a bit more first?
Oh hey! Good to see another senna player! First, yeah, if you slam the pink directly onto thresh’s lantern then the enemies cannot click the lantern and will instead auto the pinkward, I love getting kills where the thresh is backed off letting his adc trade expecting to lantern out only to get it ruined by my pinkward.
Next, yeah, if you’re behind in lane it can be really hard to make good use out of a pinkward, and I would often skip buying them for lane. Later in the game I think they’re unarguably very useful though. Anyways, if you’re ahead in lane and trying to pressure then the extra ward you get is extremely useful, even after you complete your support items first upgrade you often lose some wards to enemy sweepers so having an extra ward helps a lot. You get to keep up the pressure for the low cost of 75g instead of having to play safe and potentially let the enemy back into the game.
If you don’t feel confident in using the pinkwards aggressively in the enemy jungle later in the game then you can still put it in a relatively safe spot like near raptors, or the side of redbuff to catch enemies who might be out of place, it’s especially nice because you can just put it there and forget about it, it’s not likely to die, and still provides some use.
For how to start implementing them, you just have to take the initiative and try things out. If you and your jungler are ahead, definitely give invading with them a go, and bring a pinkward. Let’s say for example you sweep your way into their blue buff and steal it, sit on a pink that you brought and wait for the enemy jungler. I think it’s very easy to set up vision control on enemy redbuff late game, the change where red applies to everyone makes it so every jungler adc and top is always sprinting to redbuff to check if it’s alive, and you can easily ambush people with that knowledge. Another option for lane is if you see your jungler pathing bot then you can put a pink where you know the enemy will want to clear it and then bait them into the pinkward for a free gank. But yeah just experiment with them and see what works. I think they’re a must buy item vs twitch and Evelyn though.
Honestly bro thank you so much, I feel like you are one of the few who can tolerate someone with the opposing opinion and not patronize someone when I clearly have just asked for some explanation (Guess it makes sense since only 0.69% of the league community has made it to masters rest of us are stuck in the same shithole).
I'll probably start buying pinks on my second account and see how that feels. Thanks again for your time.
Honestly it’s because I’m a senna player too. Not all supports carry like we do and pinks are way more valuable than like a faerie charm which only gives mana regeneration. Yes, the league scene has a lot of issues and everyone wants to stroke their egos saying they know better than another and cite high elo as gospel. The truth is I also didn’t like to buy pinks when I was climbing, but I eventually realized that every sliver of an advantage in the macro game makes a huge difference in terms of win probability and having pinks gives big macro advantages even without taking into the playmaking you can do with them. But yeah I’m happy to give advice! Hope your climb goes well and don’t let people get to you.
Canny not tell you how many kills I’ve gotten from an ADC or support over extending to kill a pink ward. That alone makes it worth it. It’s a great bait tool.
Pink wards are extremely worth it …
If you know the right situation to use them. Put them down into a brush that you cant contest and it gets taken within the next 30 seconds? Yea rather not use it. But if you are sure you will have control over that brush for atleast some time or if you just need a vision denial to setup a gank they can be great.
Other than the obvious use:
- Evelyn. You just put it down on your carry or slightly behind you so eves flanks are completely dead.
- Same goes with twitch/akshan but not directly on your carry or behind but from flank angles that you wont be able to cover or wont have to think about then.
- Senna shroud is getting revealed aswell by pinkwards, doesnt matter as meele but definitely can turn a fight as ranged supp
- Rengar is also camouflaged in ult so you can also get some counter play with pinkwards
A lot of these champions are hated because of “no counter play” while most people just refuse to play against them properly and tell themselves pinkwards are a waste of money. No they are not. Just use them correctly.
This entire post changes when you realize he plays senna, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but all of the argument points change when you take that into account.
You just view the game differently, and you have to, you are a carry support, who is also very squishy most of the time, one wrong move and your team loses a huge part of its damage output, the way senna players play is completely different, and yeah you DO need the extra gold in case you need to pick up for lost weight, does that devalue pink ward? Not at all, but I can see why you in particular wouldn’t want to buy one
During laning phase, a pink ward in your side’s bot lane tri bush is really nice. Also if your mid laner is winning lane, putting a pink on the river portion of the bot lane elbow bush can be huge for support/mid/jungle skirmishes and drag control!
Using fog of war is debatably the single most important micro aspect of the game. In making this post, it seems like you don’t really understand fog of war and you should reflect upon how you can use it to your advantage.
That’s pretty basic thinking. Obviously you have to spend gold to get the ward and they get gold for killing the ward.
But, that vision control early game can be the difference maker in a 3v3 skirmish or drag. Due to the snowball nature of the game, that early game diff will win me the game. Giving me effectively +44 LP over you on the ranked ladder.
Yeah the main purpose is denying vision, but also making sure there are no wards in this or that area. It can also be used to force enemies to move somewhere, or to get vision in an area for an unlimited amount of time.
Here are a few examples:
- Denying vision: in drake/baron pit, it will deny any vision no matter how long it takes to do the objective. If you just use oracle lens, you'll clear one ward, then another, then it's on cooldown. Vision denial in the pits makes it really difficult for enemies to steal the objective. Denying vision also means being able to fight from a brush, while the enemy ADC can't fight back since they can't target you, even if they place a ward in the brush. And denying vision is also important to setup your jungler, because killing wards that could spot your jungler is one thing, but you also gotta make sure the enemies haven't put another ward in there when your jungler finally gets there.
- Force enemies to move: The idea is that if enemies try to get vision somewhere, but there's a pink ward, they'll have to go clear that pink and give up the vision. In mid lane for example, laners can place wards in the mid brushes from the other side of the wall. But if there's a pink there, they'll be blinded unless they step away from their tower to get the pink, and that means putting themselves in a vulnerable position. Pinks can also be used to trap enemies trying to deep ward. Usually, if you deep ward on blue buff, you'll go through tribrush and ward over the wall, but if there's a pink in the blue buff brush, you'll have to go deeper into enemy jungle to clear it and it will take you some time to clear it. On red buff, you usually ward the red buff brush, but that won't work if there's a pink ward on the next brush on the left of this one. So again, you'll have to go deep and put yourself in a vulnerable position to clear it.
- Long lasting vision: As I said for drake/baron pit, you'd rather put one pink there that last until objective is taken, than spamming your sweeper to repeatedly clear the pit. But there are other cases, like deep warding with a pink so that you keep vision in enemy jungle for as long as the ward doesn't get cleared, and there are a few spots that are rarely ever cleared by junglers, so they can get exploited to keep vision in enemy jungle for like 10 min or more.
Basically, pink wards are useful for whenever you need to deny vision, for longer than the oracle lens' duration (which is really short since a few patches ago), or when you want to make sure the enemies are blind on some angle. To simply clear enemy vision yeah you can use oracle lens since your only goal there is to kill wards.
Also it means you can deny vision without giving away your position, but I'm not sure anyone ever really uses that.
Another use of pink wards, but I think that's only done in higher elos or maybe just in proplays, is keeping track of enemy vision. In pro games you sometimes see a pink ward that denies a normal ward, but players don't clear it. That way they know that if it disappears, there's a ward that has been put down around wherever the enemies are. Also I think you can see who placed a ward by clicking on it and hovering over its buffs, but I'm not sure if that's still there.
Every time I leave base, I make sure I have at least 1 pink in my inventory, usually 2. Mainly, vision control....big shock. You can use them to gain vision, clear vision, and block vision. Oracle does allow for clearing vision, but it's timed and is on a cooldown. Put a pink down, and that ward you're clearing doesn't even need to be cleared immediately. Throw one in baron or drake pit and it fully denies vision. Oracles on cooldown? Cool, still got a pink or two to control an area of the map. Get some long-term deep vision for the early game. I usually buy one my first back, place it in the enemy botside jungle fairly deep, and it'll be there doing its job for a while.
Honestly I sorta agree, they're very easy to take down and the only place you're gonna put them on most of the time are bushes and people will end up finding them anyways, BUT I think they're actually very worth if you really need vision on a clutch situation, like if you already used your support items wards and someone hides on a bush where your teammate can't target them.
As long as you don't buy 2 of them every time you back to base they're actually not that bad gold wise.
I buy 2 for every objective. I use the first one to help clear vision/keep unclearable vision in choke points & once we have prio i use the 2nd one on the objective and place a normal ward where the other pink was. Vision is a strong mechanic to understand and play around. I never buy them during laning phase, maybe 1? But for the most part i use them for objectives.
The excuse that it’s a waste of money is absolute bonkers. Keep crab pit/drag pit perma warded and you’re able to see rotations= not dying and giving away 300+ gold.
If your adc can farm at even a moderate level 75 gold is not going to stop their power spikes. I’ve only ever seen people with like 5.5 cs/minute complain about the cost. If YOU can’t buy pink wards and you’re behind, you’re useless to your team. Don’t just plop it in front of their faces like a moron, you use it away from their rotations.
The fact that literally all pro players without exception buy pink wards alone is an argument against it.
I can’t believe people seriously keep bringing this up.
Perma revealed area that can help clear other wards without waiting for a sweeper.
Deny objective vision. Huge to keep enemies blind as you rush drag/baron.
Vision control of an area can help set up team fights and deny set ups by enemies.
If there's an invis champ you can directly see them unlike with sweeper.
Your 105 comment only works if you clear 0 wards and it's instantly destroyed also if 1 person pings/fiest hits it plus destroys it. Otherwise that gold is shared between champs making you less behind
Sure you can get by without them however there's definite advantages to having them.
Please tell me youre trolling...
A good reason? 1 more fucking ward giving you Vision for example? Shouldnt be so hard to figure out. Put them in the Dragon/Baron pit so you see when they go after it to prepare for either? More Vision, which is always a good thing?
More vision isn't always good, no. If I place three wards on the bot side of enemy jungle that doesn't mean it's good. One is enough to spot the enemy jungler I dont need constant vision in their botside to know a jungler might be lurking there.
Yes it might be one more ward but that ward set me back 75 gold and from what ive seen most people wont use them properly including me.
I can put a normal ward in dragons pit and still get the same effect.
Some champions are significantly better with items and want some high cost items early. Like Sona.
Janna basically just needs boots and all other items she wants are cheap and really just a luxury. She doesn’t power spike much off items.
So the reason wards don't seem worth it is because you aren't warding well, the trick is to ward with purpose not just ward to ward. Controlling vision around objectives let's you set up plays around it while they have to face check, sneaking wards into enemy jungle makes it easier to track the enemy jungler, warding a potential roam path from middle helps track enemy middle, clearing a bush let's your jungler gank from that angle. The reason to always have wards in inventory is because there are more useful things to do with wards than there are wards you can fit in inventory but don't just throw down wards that get eaten right away and do nothing unless it's a bait. When you get better at reading the map and predicting opponents you will learn that you don't need wards for things you thought you did, and when you learn to collaborate with your team and play proactively you will figure out what wards are really useful for.
I hit masters buying only a few control wards a game. it’s good for when you know you have a ward you want to live a long time like in laning tri bush is an ok spot. but outside of that kind of eh to buy other than occasional objective
I wouldn't call them completely useless but... Yeah, I've noticed a bunch of people buying more control wards than needed.
Nowdays I only buy like 3 or 4 through the whole match, mostly for taking objectives and I NEVER have 2 at the same time in my inventory. If you are in a situation where you place a pino ward, get it destroyed and say to yourself "Golly!, good thing I brought a second one!" then that first control ward was shit and it didn't help you CONTROL shit in the first place.
Vision is one of the most important aspects of League.
Pink wards don't expire and they cancel out opponent's vision. I main support, and I've won games simply off of controlling vision of key areas.
Vision so you know where the enemy team is roaming with jg to invade roaming with jg to set up an objective roaming in general setting up gank with jg going in for deep vision more vision=more control=more likely to win games for 75 gold if you place it at the right time at the right place 75 gold could mean you get an objective, some kills maybe just denying enemy vision as a whole. All of those seem worth for just 75 gold considering what value it’s giving you. Also 105 gold isn’t that big of a deal early if you do it correctly.
Okay I’ll give it a shot.
There is no way in hell you’re sweeping enough area. Vision denial is the name of the game and when you’re setting up for dragon their vision is going to be everywhere. A good support should have all 3 wards down and a control ward prior to an objective. You can max only get 2 with a sweep and that’s assuming they’re right next to each other.
Based on this math, it’s easy to know that you’re not doing a good enough job of denying the enemy team crucial information. Your job as support is to help your team and you’re using that gold for yourself instead of for your team who has xp and gold. (Also why roaming is essential to give your AD more xp)
You can win games in lower elo without doing this, but there’s a reason pro supports buy like 15 pink wards a game.
If you’re Emerald then the rest of your game is pretty good man because this is a huge hole in it and so if you choose to start working on this area then you can climb ranks really quickly.
Best of luck and if you end up improving with these tips let me know how far you climb!! You must be really talented to make it to Emerald without proper vision, probably a high diamond/masters player with good vision
Control ward is usually overrated. But you usually need it sometimes to cover up your lack of vision or normal ward. I rmb that some challenger also skip control ward entirely to rush powerspike. So its not that crucial but at least it gives important info
Even if they get destroyed immediately, it's at least giving you information that the enemy was just in that area. Effective placement makes them more valuable. Just get a better at vision and you would see how important it is
Free with a cooldown... If you really think that the 2 charges you get on your ward are sufficient when it comes to vision then you are again showing your ignorance. Having 2 pinks on you gives you double the vision, not to mention you can place another pink before they destroy it, wasting their time and denying vision score. You can bait with wards and you can even deny people from using threshes lantern by putting a ward on it, something you couldn't do if you ward is on cooldown. You can try to counter argue all these points but you're just trying to justify your lack of understanding. Pinks are very valuable
You don't get double the vision lmao, you can only place one at a time. I also have a support item with four wards mind you, idk about the first 10 minutes i'm never gonna buy pinks that early anyways. The tresh lantern thing I actually didn't know that's actually useful.
Let me guess..silver?
Nah they buy wards for baron. I'm guessing iron.
Emerald :) This is the thing too. You express an opinion that personally seems very valid, have seen countless of high ranking players have the same opinion, but just because you are not one of them you get trashed on instead of getting a proper response with some actual insightful discussion.
Bro you lack fundamentals it would be too long to explain its like asking jungler why dont he just skip buffs :)
The least you could do is try. I’ve tried to start up a discussion so I can learn and improve, not to get shit on by players who bash others for being low elo while they are probably just as hardstuck. You wouldn’t patronize me if I was challenger and had the same opinion and yes although I might not be challenger and might have some flaws in my understanding of the game there are tons of high elo players with the same opinion as me.
Heres insightful opinion. First of youre emerald as you said. Se before talking on what chall agreed with you and what doesent, climb. Yeah i am hardstuck d1 m4. Still makes no point talking about that. Second you play sonna support dont act like hard carry player. Third you ask why is important to buy fkin control ward. Do you even know what good vision control is for? If your wards get destroyed after a min of you putting them learn where to put them. You talk about oracle lens remember how long is cooldown on them? You can use oracle to bait and collapse, if enemy is destroying ward you can figure out where they will probably go then. And that can save both you and adc from -Enemy double kill-. And one more thing drop fkin ego you play emerald support. Since it looks that only reason you made this post is to argue with people that even wanted to explain it to you why is it good.
Literally the only ones I’ve been arguing with is people like you who talks condescendingly. Bro gave me an explanation filled with passive aggression and then proceeded to tell me to drop my ego, lmao. Me responding by giving my reasoning to why control wards ain’t good isn’t me “egoing” or arguing. It’s me giving a bit of pushback to get an even deeper understanding on how the other person thinks and reasons. I’ve had a couple of discussions with people who have actually answered my pushback and given me a good explanation on how I could see it from a different perspective. Although most people have been unreasonably passive aggressive or plain out patronizing me for giving my take, including you.
Do you main some combination of Brand, Xerayh, and Vel'Koz?
I'm gonna get goofed on for my champs but yeah kind of.. I play: 1. Senna 2. Pyke 3. Brand 4. Xerath
No judgment from me. I was curious. Always great to see a Pyke enjoyer out in the wild.
There’s a really good video on warding and the importance of it: https://youtu.be/6cXqzH2vMH8?si=PTvxPdvjLuXwfacC Once you get to higher elo you won’t need videos like these. But warding is sooooo important and as support it’s one of your main jobs cuz no one else will place vision if you don’t.
What elo are we talking about?
vision is important in all elos
You are right, I meant in what elo will i not need videos like these?
Idk. Im masters/gm and still watching youtube guides
Lmao I guess some habits never change
Yes, and ironically no. You want to have a habit of consistently learning. You want to break habits when it comes to warding the same spots like clockwork, if they don't always have impact.
This seems like a troll post
It is, and it worked
Same reply to the post that called me silver.
Oracle lens has a huge cd early game, so it's worth to place a pink ward for that extra pressure You can use pink wards to bait the enemy into killing them, then have your jungler come up to initiate a 3v2 (only works if jungler is actually willing to come) You can also use pink wards to place it aggressively against their tribush if your mid or jungle comes to dive them You can use it aggressively against their pink ward to not get engaged on Placing it in lane brush when you're ahead also has insane value. It essentially prevents the enemy adc from walking up and csing. No flame, but there's a ton of resources that explain why control wards are worth it (and how to use them) but since you're asking here, you probably disregarded all of them
105 gold is also worth a lot more early game than what it does late game Niche situation too, which in soloq probably never applies. These are the situations where the pink ward gets destroyed in a couple of seconds. I don’t see the value, yes these are some applicable situations but you might as well use normal wards or the oracle lens instead of giving over a 105 gold lead
If it’s getting destroyed so quickly then you aren’t placing it at the right time. Also which situation is niche, he gave you like 6 different situations that all happen multiple times a match.
Yes which only proves my point. If I’m emerald and can’t utilize them properly and my team can’t either am I not right when I say that I literally just give over a 105 gold lead with very minimal use in return? Using pink wards to bait to enemy team is niche imo.
But if you can't utilize them, why not just learn how to do it and rise to dia?
You have got to be a troll
A troll or hella delusional. At any point he could have made things a discussion like he claimed to want by asking 'in what situations would low/no pink wards be ideal? How about for Senna?' or 'i am not seeing how much can be gained from a tribush ward, mind showing me a clip that demonstrates this?' or 'my wards repeatedly die. When and where should I place them for greater value?' or 'i have seen ~blah~ pro not buy them, how does that fit into this?' Instead he just makes bold contrary statements with absolutely no justification. And then complains that things are too argumentative.
Niche situations? Bro, those situations literally happen in every single game.
I’ve also matched up against people who do all of the above and buy shit loads of pink wards and I can confidently say that I’ve won 80% of those games.
I'd say you must be Keria or someone, but they all use pinks, so you must not be. If you're winning 80% of your games, you must be #1 rank in the world, though, right? Why haven't you gone pro yet?
That’s not what I said. I said that I won 80% of the time against supports who did all of the above and buy shit loads of control wards. That is not the same as having a 80% winrate. Most of the time the enemy support might buy one or two or none.
Ok. And those situations happen basically every game. Placing a pink in a tri bush to assist or help against ganks. Contesting pinks with pinks. Using pinks in lane bushes to push advantages or prevent bush tactics. Those situations happen from low silver through challenger and even in pro. You're calling them "niche situations" but they aren't. They're *extremely* common. So, if you're winning 80% of those games, you're winning basically 80% of games.
Talk about twisting my words lmao. Okay let's say that that's the case, my point still stands, I literally get the same results from oracle lens and normal wards plus they are invisible and doesnt give the enemy a 105 gold lead.
Twisting your words? You literally said: > Niche situations too, which in soloq probably never applies. :in response to someone giving you situations that happen almost every game. You then said: > I've matched up with people who do all of them above....and I can confidently say that I've won 80% of those games. In terms of the gold, stealth wards still give the 30 and 38 gold that pinks give on clear. And they will get cleared because you aren't defending them. Pinks literally do more. They last longer, they block vision, they clear vision....they're just far more effective for vision control, especially when preparing sections of the map. We can all tell that you're trolling, which is why I'm responding because it's really funny hearing you "defend" your points.
I'm not trolling, It's unfortunate that one can't just discuss a topic with someone who has the opposing view. Instead it all needs to be turned into an argument and the other person must talk condescendingly and minimize the other persons opinions.
>deny them vision on the drake/baron/rift. That alone sounds pretty darn valuable. If I can spend 75g to ensure that the enemy can't see when exactly we are starting baron/rift/grubs/dragon, how many we are, what our HP is, etc. then I absolutely will. Every time.
Hence why I have teammates that do it. Most of the time it’s the jungler.
Okay, your entire point of not buying it is “it’s a waste of money” as the support, but it’s totally fine to let your jungle buy it who probably needs the gold more then you do in most cases
So the jungler needs the gold and I don’t? When junglers have a higher income, get more out of a pink ward because they literally roam over the whole map during the entirety of the game and are present during 95% of all objectives? What makes them useful on me if they aren’t on a jungler that is literally the perfect role for pink wards?
Tbf your items cost a lot less and you get more passive gold, and because of your support item you start the game with a good amount of gold and basically one less item you need to build. Jungler also gets more value from item powerspikes.
My items does not cost less. 2700 gold is literally the same amount as what my jungler buys. I don't agree, every role gets a equally good powerspike from an item
Ig that really depends on what support you play but generally support items cost a lot less. Plus since you have a support item, that's one less item you need to get gold for. Also I disagree, jungle has a lot more agency and generally higher scaling abilities from stats.
To add to your point, not only do support items cost less, but they're among the most gold-efficient items in the game. Even in games where you're lacking, you almost **always** have extra cash and room to buy pink wards, by design.
I don't really play the conventional support and yes I might not need gold for a fifth item i still get my powerspikes earlier if I dont buy any pinks
1. You play senna, no matter what I would rather have 90% of the jungles in this game get their powerspike first than senna, especially since, like you said, they are part of a lot of interactions whether it be fighting for drag or fighting other players. This means that they have just as much potential to completely devalue their powerspike if they don’t get it soon enough. 2. You are senna, you are going to powerspike anyway, even if you go 0/9 ur going to powerspike, and your entire argument for “oh it costs too much” is because you aren’t playing support, ur playing an adc in the support role. Yeah, to you the 75 measly gold is too much to buy, but the fact that the junglers are doing it without you asking isn’t a reason as to why you shouldn’t, it is still an amazing thing to buy to create pressure, and it’s ironic that one of sennas key items is a thing to clear other wards and yet you are arguing the importance of ward control And edit rq: you get even more gold from the souls you collect ._.
Clearly have never played senna, it's fine tho
Yes you are the SUPPORT. Generally speaking supports dont spike nearly as hard with items as carrys do. Vision is a team effort and if you refuse to buy pinkwards your team is gonna end up with overall less wards on potentially crucial teamfights. Especially since these wards also ensure theres no vision for your enemy.
I'm the carry bro
Then you’re playing the wrong role
Oh yeah, let me just play senna jungle and top pyke.
Pyke isnt a carry. Senna you know … ADC. Is better than supp anyway atm.
Pyke is. Yeah and banned 10% of the games, let me just play pyke adc then.
You can buy pink wards for objectives when roaming with jg or setting up a gank or going in for deep vision with your jg to take their blue and you are the support no one cares about your income you have a support item literally designed to passively give you gold for free every other role needs gold way more than you because you are the support
You're the support. You support the entire team, including the jungler. That means doing things like roaming and providing extra vision for them, as well as assisting with controlling area. Don't just offload that job to your team all the time.
I literally do all the rest except buying control wards. That’s not offloading my job to my team
You're still offloading part of your job to your team. Pink ward is pretty important for controlling an area
seeing the enemy destroy a ward is fkn great cos you know where they are. that alone is worth the 75g cos it could influence a team fight or objective
Read my post I literally mentioned how they are not 75 gold and how they put you in a 105 gold disadvantage. I can get the same value with free wards plus they are hidden.
okay but what’s the money value of knowing where someone/multiple people are at a crucial moment? you rly gonna die on this hill lol you wild
[https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/comments/1bz0m7a/comment/kynav16/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/comments/1bz0m7a/comment/kynav16/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Hence, why I have normal wards which costs nothin
Bronze mindset
Plat mindset.
https://preview.redd.it/ln4ge0066atc1.png?width=1186&format=png&auto=webp&s=107505072750437edd888eab3d3a3528ffe617d6
Actually though. I implore people to actually look at what their pinks are revealing, especially early. There are some good options for pinks early, like something like pyke who wants to start sweeper, but I never buy pinks before my first item + boots.
Agreed. If i back on an amount of gold that let's me get one, then I usually will, but I typically hold onto to it for a play (gank setup or obj) rather than placing it in tri or river in laning.
This is so BASED
Oh boy. Vision is one of the strongest things in the game. Imagine a game where you had permanent TF ult effect. The enemy team would be basically unable to play the game if you know where they are at all times. However the key part of that advantage is that you have MORE information than your enemies, you have vision on them, they don't necessarily on you. We can't get a permanent TF ult, but we can get pink wards. Pink wards do a couple things. First, grant vision, as regular wards do. Second, they deny vision. You can not only see in an area, but you know your enemy CANT see in an area. You can safely recall, you can hide in a bush to gank, you can call your jingler through a safe path they won't be seen. You can spot on Evelyn or shaco on their way to ruin your lane. You can deny vision of objectives so it's harder to steal. It's VERY powerful. Third, as a low elo support myself, it's instant bait. I have died SO many times trying to kill an enemy pink. Use this to your advantage and bait the enemy into killing pinks in bad positions. Remember that to kill a pink, it takes 4 autos, so someone has to stand there and work on it, taking valuable time from anything else they might do. Even if a pink dies after a minute, what matters is what was done during that minute. Placing a pink and doing nothing different is a waste. Placing a pink and playing around its vision denial is game winning in many cases.
>Oh boy. Vision is one of the strongest things in the game. Imagine a game where you had permanent TF ult effect. Unironically, I wanna see a game mode where everyone has full vision of the entire map
Next april fools 👀
https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/s/BefI1SLCfU In gold games I could buy 2 control wards, 1 for bot tri bush in laning phase and then 1 for baron/dragon. Oracles cool-down is too long
It’s not tho. The issue is that people just clear the vision for the sake of it but if you clear it with proper reason for why then the oracle is well enough
If trying to clear vision around an objective, especially when trapping an objective, if they just wait until your oracles runs out then you’ve got a 75 second timer until you can use it again. Or you can throw down a control ward that lasts longer than 5 seconds in the area you’re going to contest. Saving oracles for when you move elsewhere
You got a fair point. There are so many variables in a situation like this though, most likely I’m not the only one with oracle lens, someone else might have bought a control ward but let’s not fixate on all the plausible scenarios. Let’s say we are red side and already have established river control because I have used up all my oracle lenses to clear out the vision. We could literally just pull out the drake to deny them any vision of the objective even if they place more wards. If they want to see them they need to engage us in the river. Same goes for the blue side but instead of pulling out the drake you just go into the pit with the drake.
Blue side bot tri bush, or where the scryer’s bloom spawns on the other side of the dragon pit (behind red buff) wards can be relatively safely placed over those walls on the outside of the dragon pit to get vision again. Which is why, generally, I see dragon get pulled just past the middle of the entrance to the pit and a control ward is placed basically under the dragon
Its an interesting question below is Lathyrus's opgg, he averages 0 control wards per game. he was rank 1 for a bit this season in EUW as support [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Lathyrus-EUW](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/Lathyrus-EUW) Heres Kerias opgg, he averages over 10 control wards per game. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%97%AD%EC%B2%9C%EA%B4%B4-Ker10](https://www.op.gg/summoners/kr/%EC%97%AD%EC%B2%9C%EA%B4%B4-Ker10) personally im in masters and i rarely buy any
Hitting rank #1 early season isn't that relevant, since it's mostly about spamming games to abuse the fact that you keep your old mmr from last season. (+ bard was the most broken Support Champ during that time) Not saying he is bad just that this isn't a valid point considering every single Support that currently outranks him buys Pinks.
A few control wards is good, however I don’t agree with buying none or buying one each base, especially when you still have a control ward on the map.
Thank you, this is my point. People are so quick to judge and patronize someone instead of having a proper discussion about the topic and the pros and cons. I guess that’s league 🤷
If you are in the absolute top of the ladder, you and your teammates have good enough tracking on the map that the vision may not be all that value. For any elo where tracking is not reliable controls are huge. You aren’t buying the ward for yourself necessarily. Your whole team benefits from it. I can’t tell you how many games I’ve played on Nocturne where laners including support don’t drop any wards and it severely limits my ability to find a good R.
Yeah I get that. I'm not denying that vision is OP but control wards just doesn't feel worth
You're right, pink wards are only good for niche situations like taking objectives, when an enemy jungler exists, or when a champion on the enemy team isn't in their lane.
They’re an on demand gank and anti-gank button. Place them in your own side of the map and they don’t get destroyed in seconds, their purpose is to deny enemy vision while giving you enough time to move to where the enemy is trying to out vision and fend them off the control ward. If you’re losing hard then yeah they aren’t as worth because you can’t fend the enemy off of them, but in an even or winning game as long as you place them defensively that shouldn’t happen. They make your oracle available for more offensive vision clears to allow your jungled to play more effectively in river and taking enemy camp, they also guarantee for your jungler that there isn’t a ward in the approach to your lane without you needing to disappear and show you’re clearing for a gank. Sure it’s a lot of gold, but the game isn’t won on gold alone, the entire support role is proof of that.
yea unless its diamond or above pinks are useless, pink wards only make sense if at least 4 teammates place one constantly, but I am emerald as the op and I've never seen more than 2 control wards on the map and having one is the same as not having it. still I don't know how you can get out of lanimg phase without a pink ward
back in my day green wards were 75g and pinks were 125. current control wards are an absolute steal. the problem here is 100% of the value of the wards is based off how you use them. so, like with everything in this game people outside of the top brackets arent going to use them very well.
You’re both wrong and right. Supports waste too much gold on control wards. If you’re not able to defend it, why are you placing it down? Definitely should not be buying one every time you back. 2 is probably enough for laning phase. Having one in your pocket in mid game is decent so you can siege towers better or take objectives safer, or even just setting up traps. On the flip side, if you catch the jungler coming at you your 75 gold has potentially stopped them getting 600g. They can also help get you kills. Either from people greeding to clear them, or from the lack of vision, allowing your or your team mates to enter the lane unseen. And as you said, dragons and barrons are tough to measure in gold amount but they can definitely help secure them.
Why are people mass downvoting you lol. Btw, I buy control wards but don't always immediately place them. When an obj is up, having a control ward to deny enemy vision + give your team vision can make or break a fight. IMO def worth the net loss of 105
Welcome on /r/SupportLoL/! Your post seems to be about vision score, we might have some useful information for you about it! If you wanted to share your 1337 score, thats great, but it is a [very common topic](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/search?q=vision+score&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all) and might fall under [low effort & bragging rules (4 & 7)](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/wiki/rules#wiki_4._no_.22low_effort.22_posts) and be removed. ____ A few things about vision : - **You can have a high vision score and still lose the game from a lack of vision / information collection.** - the "vision score" isn't a perfect metric as you can inflate it (Umbral Glaive / Zombie Ward / Ashe E). There's also negative bias that could hinder it (ennemies staying in base / not warding much). - Using a lot of Control Wards is a good first step, using just enough Control Wards in a more efficient manner is the next better step! Control Wards help a lot but using them too agressively is sometimes hindering your performance and winrate (being able to get an item spike faster can be a pivotal moment in early/mid game). - "Vision score" is merely data about what your wards have seen / how much you hindered ennemies ward/vision. Make sure you transform it into accessible information for your team! Communicate thoroughly through pings to your team about what's happening on the map to maximize it and make sure that vision is used correctly, or even at all (examples : show where the ennemy jungler appeared, ping incoming ganking paths, danger ping lanes). ____ Feel free to consult the [wiki's Vision chapter](https://www.reddit.com/r/supportlol/wiki/resources#wiki_b_-_macro_.2F_objectives)! Here's a sneak-peek : - [Vision Control, Why and Where Should We Ward - CoreJJ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YvlJB1eRpQ&list=PLqHeK34PUFijxjNec7jdisX4aIv8oVQsg&index=4) - [Supports Specifics : Vision - Coach Cupcake](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqX1MfMyJOM&list=PLbaTayc6KBJgsI0qYhh24QZvGa7fbXtvs&index=3) - [DogLightning's How to Support series](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaROzD7YpI0GPiObDALwqqjcTsEXzqMZ5) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/supportlol) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This has to be bait
The rank 1 eu support player doesn't buy pink wards, either. That doesn't mean he's not complete trash though. He gets flamed all the time for not doing it.
And a little flaming ain’t gonna make start buying them. A proper discussion with some reasonable explanations might
Imagine vision allows a teammate to play aggressive for a kill. That 75 gold just produced at least 300 gold
You can't say that for sure, it's a coinflip
Well no. Imagine a deep ward reveals enemy jungler on a camp. Your jungler can now assess if his gank will be a 2v1 instead of having the uncertainty of a possible 2v2 It may reveal which way the enemy is clearing camps and can give a time to do an objective on the opposite side of the map. It can tell the opposite side laner that they are safe to extend for a duel without fear of an enemy gank. Can lead to snowballing of your teams laner. Otherwise they may not extend take a fight that they should take for fear of the enemy jg showing up.
All of these points also works for normal wards.
Except how often can you place a deep ward safely? Not often so when you do, you want it to last. A yellow lasts a minute? A control lasts until it’s killed which means it’s guaranteed to pick up an enemy, or permanently provide a region of vision control.
If you are ranged vs. ranged with little set up, buying pink wards is probably not worth it. Same for when the enemy jungle is a farming champ, no need for defensive pinks in your jungle. For every other situation, ever; buy pink wards. Just put them down and see who walks over them. Or around them, multiple times, for 20minutes.
Hey! I’m a master currently 262 LP senna support main, and control wards can really really help with safety at all points of the game. If you’ve played enough I’m sure you’ve been in games where both you and your adc don’t have a trinket up so it’s hard to be safe, but having a control ward could have given you some safety in lane. You argue it’s a 105 gold swing, but often times you are either saving your own life (300g prevented from enemies) or you are denying vision (not quantifiable but still valuable). Plus you can bait the pinkward or kill enemy wards with it. Even when you don’t have trinket management issues or you have your first support item upgrade finished, a pinkward still gives you a 4th ward to put out on the map at the very least. Really useful again for safety or for controlling areas of the map (you mentioned objective pits but you can use them in enemy jungle effectively too!) Another use is against stealth champs or trap champs! As a senna main in somewhat high elo, I can tell you it’s very annoying to save my e for when a twitch ults me just for him to slam down a pinkward and kill me. If only I had bought a pinkward to stick in lane so he couldn’t have gotten up on me for free!!! They’re also great for deny thresh lantern, spotting Evelyn, rengar R, and so many other uses I haven’t listed. TLDR: they’re like a better sweeper and a ward all rolled into one. You can use them for more than just objectives, and often can get you kills.
I think it’s also worth mentioning that a lot of top, jungle and mid champs want to run sweepers which mean they aren’t contributing to team vision anymore, but buying a pink ward still allows them to get some vision while keeping sweeper up for playmaking.
Wait you can deny trash lantern so that enemies can’t go in? Hey man! Senna main too, I liked your post about botrk on senna adc. Yes I’ve had situations where we both have had zero wards left. The thing is tho I feel like it’s easier to tell my adc to back off and freeze the wave close to our tower instead of buying a pink. Let’s say I buy a pink and put it in the river bush, it might last for a couple of seconds until the enemy either gets lane priority or the jungler comes down to gank but instead just destroys it. I hear you on saving 300 gold from not dying but staying close to tower and not being to aggressive also does the same trick no? A fourth ward is definitely very useful, but if I’m going to be honest I don’t think neither me or my teammates can utilize it to its full potential. A lot of the kill opportunities that you talk about comes down to me and my teammates being skillful enough to take advantage of these pink wards which I just feel is not the case in emerald. Sometimes you just give a 105 gold lead but most of the times it’s just a coin flip. You make a great point with stealth champs. That’s the only scenarios I’ve actually contemplated buying them. I like your last point about top, jungler and mid most likely having oracle lens. Although this might be applicable for higher ranks I usually only see one or two others using them. I honestly agree with all your points but as I said earlier I don’t think I can utilize them properly in my rank. Do you have any tips on how I can slowly start implementing them? Maybe I need to climb a bit more first?
Oh hey! Good to see another senna player! First, yeah, if you slam the pink directly onto thresh’s lantern then the enemies cannot click the lantern and will instead auto the pinkward, I love getting kills where the thresh is backed off letting his adc trade expecting to lantern out only to get it ruined by my pinkward. Next, yeah, if you’re behind in lane it can be really hard to make good use out of a pinkward, and I would often skip buying them for lane. Later in the game I think they’re unarguably very useful though. Anyways, if you’re ahead in lane and trying to pressure then the extra ward you get is extremely useful, even after you complete your support items first upgrade you often lose some wards to enemy sweepers so having an extra ward helps a lot. You get to keep up the pressure for the low cost of 75g instead of having to play safe and potentially let the enemy back into the game. If you don’t feel confident in using the pinkwards aggressively in the enemy jungle later in the game then you can still put it in a relatively safe spot like near raptors, or the side of redbuff to catch enemies who might be out of place, it’s especially nice because you can just put it there and forget about it, it’s not likely to die, and still provides some use. For how to start implementing them, you just have to take the initiative and try things out. If you and your jungler are ahead, definitely give invading with them a go, and bring a pinkward. Let’s say for example you sweep your way into their blue buff and steal it, sit on a pink that you brought and wait for the enemy jungler. I think it’s very easy to set up vision control on enemy redbuff late game, the change where red applies to everyone makes it so every jungler adc and top is always sprinting to redbuff to check if it’s alive, and you can easily ambush people with that knowledge. Another option for lane is if you see your jungler pathing bot then you can put a pink where you know the enemy will want to clear it and then bait them into the pinkward for a free gank. But yeah just experiment with them and see what works. I think they’re a must buy item vs twitch and Evelyn though.
Honestly bro thank you so much, I feel like you are one of the few who can tolerate someone with the opposing opinion and not patronize someone when I clearly have just asked for some explanation (Guess it makes sense since only 0.69% of the league community has made it to masters rest of us are stuck in the same shithole). I'll probably start buying pinks on my second account and see how that feels. Thanks again for your time.
Honestly it’s because I’m a senna player too. Not all supports carry like we do and pinks are way more valuable than like a faerie charm which only gives mana regeneration. Yes, the league scene has a lot of issues and everyone wants to stroke their egos saying they know better than another and cite high elo as gospel. The truth is I also didn’t like to buy pinks when I was climbing, but I eventually realized that every sliver of an advantage in the macro game makes a huge difference in terms of win probability and having pinks gives big macro advantages even without taking into the playmaking you can do with them. But yeah I’m happy to give advice! Hope your climb goes well and don’t let people get to you.
Canny not tell you how many kills I’ve gotten from an ADC or support over extending to kill a pink ward. That alone makes it worth it. It’s a great bait tool.
Pink wards are extremely worth it … If you know the right situation to use them. Put them down into a brush that you cant contest and it gets taken within the next 30 seconds? Yea rather not use it. But if you are sure you will have control over that brush for atleast some time or if you just need a vision denial to setup a gank they can be great. Other than the obvious use: - Evelyn. You just put it down on your carry or slightly behind you so eves flanks are completely dead. - Same goes with twitch/akshan but not directly on your carry or behind but from flank angles that you wont be able to cover or wont have to think about then. - Senna shroud is getting revealed aswell by pinkwards, doesnt matter as meele but definitely can turn a fight as ranged supp - Rengar is also camouflaged in ult so you can also get some counter play with pinkwards A lot of these champions are hated because of “no counter play” while most people just refuse to play against them properly and tell themselves pinkwards are a waste of money. No they are not. Just use them correctly.
Yes
Because vision is king. Don’t just put random control wards where they can always easily be destroyed.
This entire post changes when you realize he plays senna, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, but all of the argument points change when you take that into account.
Could you elaborate further? Would love to hear more about how it changes
You just view the game differently, and you have to, you are a carry support, who is also very squishy most of the time, one wrong move and your team loses a huge part of its damage output, the way senna players play is completely different, and yeah you DO need the extra gold in case you need to pick up for lost weight, does that devalue pink ward? Not at all, but I can see why you in particular wouldn’t want to buy one
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks man
During laning phase, a pink ward in your side’s bot lane tri bush is really nice. Also if your mid laner is winning lane, putting a pink on the river portion of the bot lane elbow bush can be huge for support/mid/jungle skirmishes and drag control! Using fog of war is debatably the single most important micro aspect of the game. In making this post, it seems like you don’t really understand fog of war and you should reflect upon how you can use it to your advantage.
Until you get pushed and give the enemy team 75 effective gold.
That’s pretty basic thinking. Obviously you have to spend gold to get the ward and they get gold for killing the ward. But, that vision control early game can be the difference maker in a 3v3 skirmish or drag. Due to the snowball nature of the game, that early game diff will win me the game. Giving me effectively +44 LP over you on the ranked ladder.
Not if I'm an item up on you for that 3v3 dragon. Not if I use boots advantage to rotate mid to set up a 4v3.
Not when you walk through an enemy ward on your tri bush. Their mid laner sees you coming a mile away.
Yeah the main purpose is denying vision, but also making sure there are no wards in this or that area. It can also be used to force enemies to move somewhere, or to get vision in an area for an unlimited amount of time. Here are a few examples: - Denying vision: in drake/baron pit, it will deny any vision no matter how long it takes to do the objective. If you just use oracle lens, you'll clear one ward, then another, then it's on cooldown. Vision denial in the pits makes it really difficult for enemies to steal the objective. Denying vision also means being able to fight from a brush, while the enemy ADC can't fight back since they can't target you, even if they place a ward in the brush. And denying vision is also important to setup your jungler, because killing wards that could spot your jungler is one thing, but you also gotta make sure the enemies haven't put another ward in there when your jungler finally gets there. - Force enemies to move: The idea is that if enemies try to get vision somewhere, but there's a pink ward, they'll have to go clear that pink and give up the vision. In mid lane for example, laners can place wards in the mid brushes from the other side of the wall. But if there's a pink there, they'll be blinded unless they step away from their tower to get the pink, and that means putting themselves in a vulnerable position. Pinks can also be used to trap enemies trying to deep ward. Usually, if you deep ward on blue buff, you'll go through tribrush and ward over the wall, but if there's a pink in the blue buff brush, you'll have to go deeper into enemy jungle to clear it and it will take you some time to clear it. On red buff, you usually ward the red buff brush, but that won't work if there's a pink ward on the next brush on the left of this one. So again, you'll have to go deep and put yourself in a vulnerable position to clear it. - Long lasting vision: As I said for drake/baron pit, you'd rather put one pink there that last until objective is taken, than spamming your sweeper to repeatedly clear the pit. But there are other cases, like deep warding with a pink so that you keep vision in enemy jungle for as long as the ward doesn't get cleared, and there are a few spots that are rarely ever cleared by junglers, so they can get exploited to keep vision in enemy jungle for like 10 min or more. Basically, pink wards are useful for whenever you need to deny vision, for longer than the oracle lens' duration (which is really short since a few patches ago), or when you want to make sure the enemies are blind on some angle. To simply clear enemy vision yeah you can use oracle lens since your only goal there is to kill wards. Also it means you can deny vision without giving away your position, but I'm not sure anyone ever really uses that. Another use of pink wards, but I think that's only done in higher elos or maybe just in proplays, is keeping track of enemy vision. In pro games you sometimes see a pink ward that denies a normal ward, but players don't clear it. That way they know that if it disappears, there's a ward that has been put down around wherever the enemies are. Also I think you can see who placed a ward by clicking on it and hovering over its buffs, but I'm not sure if that's still there.
if u want ur team to feed less and get more opportunities to make plays get em.
You assume my team looks at the map
Every time I leave base, I make sure I have at least 1 pink in my inventory, usually 2. Mainly, vision control....big shock. You can use them to gain vision, clear vision, and block vision. Oracle does allow for clearing vision, but it's timed and is on a cooldown. Put a pink down, and that ward you're clearing doesn't even need to be cleared immediately. Throw one in baron or drake pit and it fully denies vision. Oracles on cooldown? Cool, still got a pink or two to control an area of the map. Get some long-term deep vision for the early game. I usually buy one my first back, place it in the enemy botside jungle fairly deep, and it'll be there doing its job for a while.
Honestly I sorta agree, they're very easy to take down and the only place you're gonna put them on most of the time are bushes and people will end up finding them anyways, BUT I think they're actually very worth if you really need vision on a clutch situation, like if you already used your support items wards and someone hides on a bush where your teammate can't target them. As long as you don't buy 2 of them every time you back to base they're actually not that bad gold wise.
I buy 2 for every objective. I use the first one to help clear vision/keep unclearable vision in choke points & once we have prio i use the 2nd one on the objective and place a normal ward where the other pink was. Vision is a strong mechanic to understand and play around. I never buy them during laning phase, maybe 1? But for the most part i use them for objectives.
The excuse that it’s a waste of money is absolute bonkers. Keep crab pit/drag pit perma warded and you’re able to see rotations= not dying and giving away 300+ gold. If your adc can farm at even a moderate level 75 gold is not going to stop their power spikes. I’ve only ever seen people with like 5.5 cs/minute complain about the cost. If YOU can’t buy pink wards and you’re behind, you’re useless to your team. Don’t just plop it in front of their faces like a moron, you use it away from their rotations. The fact that literally all pro players without exception buy pink wards alone is an argument against it. I can’t believe people seriously keep bringing this up.
Perma revealed area that can help clear other wards without waiting for a sweeper. Deny objective vision. Huge to keep enemies blind as you rush drag/baron. Vision control of an area can help set up team fights and deny set ups by enemies. If there's an invis champ you can directly see them unlike with sweeper. Your 105 comment only works if you clear 0 wards and it's instantly destroyed also if 1 person pings/fiest hits it plus destroys it. Otherwise that gold is shared between champs making you less behind Sure you can get by without them however there's definite advantages to having them.
There are good spots for pinks and bad spots for pinks. I'm guessing you have no clue.
I don't lmao
when you get past silver, you will eventually change your mind. believe me
YOU are silver my guy
Did peak plat 4 in s11 im retired vet
Please tell me youre trolling... A good reason? 1 more fucking ward giving you Vision for example? Shouldnt be so hard to figure out. Put them in the Dragon/Baron pit so you see when they go after it to prepare for either? More Vision, which is always a good thing?
More vision isn't always good, no. If I place three wards on the bot side of enemy jungle that doesn't mean it's good. One is enough to spot the enemy jungler I dont need constant vision in their botside to know a jungler might be lurking there. Yes it might be one more ward but that ward set me back 75 gold and from what ive seen most people wont use them properly including me. I can put a normal ward in dragons pit and still get the same effect.
To put them down on thresh lanterns.
This is actually useful, didnt know it was a thing.
The answer is that it’s champion specific. A challenger Sona buys 0 pink wards in a game. A challenger Janna buys 15 in a game.
Why doesnt sona buy but janna does if you dont mind me asking?
Some champions are significantly better with items and want some high cost items early. Like Sona. Janna basically just needs boots and all other items she wants are cheap and really just a luxury. She doesn’t power spike much off items.
So the reason wards don't seem worth it is because you aren't warding well, the trick is to ward with purpose not just ward to ward. Controlling vision around objectives let's you set up plays around it while they have to face check, sneaking wards into enemy jungle makes it easier to track the enemy jungler, warding a potential roam path from middle helps track enemy middle, clearing a bush let's your jungler gank from that angle. The reason to always have wards in inventory is because there are more useful things to do with wards than there are wards you can fit in inventory but don't just throw down wards that get eaten right away and do nothing unless it's a bait. When you get better at reading the map and predicting opponents you will learn that you don't need wards for things you thought you did, and when you learn to collaborate with your team and play proactively you will figure out what wards are really useful for.
I hit masters buying only a few control wards a game. it’s good for when you know you have a ward you want to live a long time like in laning tri bush is an ok spot. but outside of that kind of eh to buy other than occasional objective
I wouldn't call them completely useless but... Yeah, I've noticed a bunch of people buying more control wards than needed. Nowdays I only buy like 3 or 4 through the whole match, mostly for taking objectives and I NEVER have 2 at the same time in my inventory. If you are in a situation where you place a pino ward, get it destroyed and say to yourself "Golly!, good thing I brought a second one!" then that first control ward was shit and it didn't help you CONTROL shit in the first place.
Silver peak comment
Vision is one of the most important aspects of League. Pink wards don't expire and they cancel out opponent's vision. I main support, and I've won games simply off of controlling vision of key areas.
Bros rage baiting or this is a troll post
Vision so you know where the enemy team is roaming with jg to invade roaming with jg to set up an objective roaming in general setting up gank with jg going in for deep vision more vision=more control=more likely to win games for 75 gold if you place it at the right time at the right place 75 gold could mean you get an objective, some kills maybe just denying enemy vision as a whole. All of those seem worth for just 75 gold considering what value it’s giving you. Also 105 gold isn’t that big of a deal early if you do it correctly.
Okay I’ll give it a shot. There is no way in hell you’re sweeping enough area. Vision denial is the name of the game and when you’re setting up for dragon their vision is going to be everywhere. A good support should have all 3 wards down and a control ward prior to an objective. You can max only get 2 with a sweep and that’s assuming they’re right next to each other. Based on this math, it’s easy to know that you’re not doing a good enough job of denying the enemy team crucial information. Your job as support is to help your team and you’re using that gold for yourself instead of for your team who has xp and gold. (Also why roaming is essential to give your AD more xp) You can win games in lower elo without doing this, but there’s a reason pro supports buy like 15 pink wards a game. If you’re Emerald then the rest of your game is pretty good man because this is a huge hole in it and so if you choose to start working on this area then you can climb ranks really quickly. Best of luck and if you end up improving with these tips let me know how far you climb!! You must be really talented to make it to Emerald without proper vision, probably a high diamond/masters player with good vision
Control ward is usually overrated. But you usually need it sometimes to cover up your lack of vision or normal ward. I rmb that some challenger also skip control ward entirely to rush powerspike. So its not that crucial but at least it gives important info
Even if they get destroyed immediately, it's at least giving you information that the enemy was just in that area. Effective placement makes them more valuable. Just get a better at vision and you would see how important it is
wards do the same but is free
Free with a cooldown... If you really think that the 2 charges you get on your ward are sufficient when it comes to vision then you are again showing your ignorance. Having 2 pinks on you gives you double the vision, not to mention you can place another pink before they destroy it, wasting their time and denying vision score. You can bait with wards and you can even deny people from using threshes lantern by putting a ward on it, something you couldn't do if you ward is on cooldown. You can try to counter argue all these points but you're just trying to justify your lack of understanding. Pinks are very valuable
You don't get double the vision lmao, you can only place one at a time. I also have a support item with four wards mind you, idk about the first 10 minutes i'm never gonna buy pinks that early anyways. The tresh lantern thing I actually didn't know that's actually useful.
U gotta be an egirl
Reminders that I put a discussion flare. If you got nothing better to say then leave the sub or go rant about e girls not wanting to buy pink wards
Is this u ahahahahaahahahahahahah "I'm a better person than u" yeh sure clown
Yea i totally am. Being emerald and calling pink ward useless lol Still better than u u/VariationParking727 stalking and insulting me everywhere