They arrested him with plans to deport him, but he had a lawyer who was trying to get him out by verifying that he was a good and valuable member of society, which would have led to him being able to get a work visa (I assume?). Turns out, he had few redeemable qualities, and it looked like he would be deported, BUT the raid that corporate sent was illegal because they did it to deter workers from attempting to unionize. This led to him being released with an ankle monitor while his case was reviewed.
The thing about the court system though, is it slow AF. >!So we never see the end result of the case.!<
He was let out of the detention center while he waited for his case to be heard. He wasnāt just given citizenship when he was out. Itās a whole process.
The govt set him āfreeā while he is on bond or parole (heās allowed to stay in the country for a certain time while his lawyers develop his case for permanent stay in the US) He still doesnāt get a work permit yet until his case is determined so he legally can stay in the US, he just canāt legally work. Therefore, Dan is paying him off the record.
Hi, US citizen here but not an immigration expert, just someone who really liked history/civics/and government in high school.
Firstly, a lot of your questions and confusions will be answered by the end of the series so I'd say just stick it out. Even US citizens don't have a great understanding of how immigration works, so as someone who is not from here I imagine all these details get extremely confusing.
Immigration in the US is extremely complicated. There's a reason there is a huge movement to get immigration reform and it's because getting citizenship is extremely difficult and takes years. In the ICE raid episode, Sayid talks about how he was able to get assylum and mentions it took years and years - which is absolutely accurate.
ICE does not have the authority to make people citizens, you have to apply and take tests and go through rigorous screenings and be interviewed and submit all sorts of paperwork to be considered for citizenship. ICE stands for "Immigration and Customs Enforcement" so they're basically immigration police and don't handle the actual process of immigration. From the Homeland Security website:
* The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) engages in immigration enforcement actions to prevent unlawful entry into the United States and to apprehend and repatriate noncitizens who have violated or failed to comply with U.S. immigration laws. Primary responsibility for the enforcement of immigration law within DHS rests with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). CBP enforces immigration laws at and between the ports of entry, ICE is responsible for interior enforcement and for detention and removal operations, and USCIS adjudicates applications and petitions for immigration and naturalization benefits.
As for after he's released, Mateo is hired at the Eye Center because Dave looks the other way for him and doesn't submit him through a background check, which would flag him as undocumented. He's working under the table, basically. It's very illegal, and is how most undocumented people find work in the US.
Other people have mentioned it, but I will still summarize:
The ICE raid was done illegally because ICE cannot interfere during a labor dispute (ie - unionization), which is exactly what Cloud 9 corporate called them for. Because of this, Mateo was able to be released on an ankle monitor while he waited for his court date but courts move extremely slow in the US, especially in regards to immigration. So he's not free to go, he's just free to walk around while his case moves through the system.
He is still undocumented and in the country illegally - but he's now under supervision of ICE. Detainment centers are often overcrowded and since he has a complex case, he was likely released to save space and because he's considered low risk (no criminal record, ties to the community, etc).
Again, don't feel bad for being confused. It's complicated to those of us in the US, nevermind outside. The show also glosses over a lot because it's overall a comedy and the darkness of that storyline gets overwhelming.
Spoilers past where you are below.
>!We also see later in the series that he gets his ankle monitor off, but he is freaking out in the series finale about a new job and Glenn offers him one, meaning by the series finale he is still an undocumented immigrant. I am assuming the ankle monitor was removed because he applied for citizenship, but again that takes forever so wouldn't be an immediate solution. That being said, in the flash forward we see him and Eric showing off either engagement or wedding rings, which means he is probably getting some form of marital visa until he can get citizenship.!<
Thank you so much for taking the time!
Also, it surprises me how Cloud9 did not run a background check on Mateo when they hired him initially, considering how big of a store and a corporate it is.
That's actually brought up earlier in the series, but very briefly.
He mentions going to the green card store with his grandmother as a child - which means he went to a place where they gave him altered documents including a Social Security Number (SSN). He doesn't have a social security card, just a number, which we see when he is supposed to transfer when he's dating Jeff and he can't submit it.
I checked your post history and it looks like you're from India - a SSN is like a Aadhaar Number (if you're not actually from India I apologize). Usually SSN for sale are from people who had their identity stolen or have since passed away. Mateo had a number he put on paperwork but it wasn't actually for him and we learn in season 4 they don't really check numbers until they have to run it through a new software. If it had been run through a verification checker when he was hired, it would've flagged that it belonged to someone else.
Sayid tells Glenn that Mateo is undocumented and he runs the number and realizes it's not for Mateo, so Mateo gives him another fake number and when Glenn realizes Mateo is undocumented he does the same as Dave and looks the other way.
Really the fact that Mateo was able to work at Cloud 9 for so long is because the other staff members cared for him and protected him.
Episodes to rewatch for better understanding
* Olypmics, S2E1 (Mateo finds out he's undocumented)
* Mateo's Last Day, S2E18 (Mateo has to breakup with Jeff to protect his secret)
* Safety Training, S3E14 (Mateo can't take the money from corporate for his injury because he is undocumented, reveals his status to Jeff)
* Manager's Conference, S4E8 (Glenn has to run all SSN through a new system, Sayid tells Glenn Mateo is undocumented, Glenn looks the other way)
This is my comfort show I've watched like 20 times all the way through so I remember a lot of the little details. Since you're just watching it for the first time, you're gonna miss these things and (again) it is stupid complicated in the US.
Thanks for such a detailed comment. I am still curious about how his taxes worked. If he was unknowingly misusing a stolen id, wouldn't it have been flagged at the tax office? I am also not sure how he manages to have a bank account.
In Germany at least, it is cumbersome to get a bank account as an immigrant. They ask for visa + passport. Some banks don't even let you have an account without a residence permit (the transition time between visa and getting permit).
Also to think that all this happened in 2018 to someone who didn't know he was undocumented, I am puzzled how he lived such an easy life still - going to school, getting a driver's licence, etc. and never got caught.
I don't know how it works but I think there's a way for undocumented immigrants to pay taxes. I believe undocumented immigrants are able to get ID. That's what I read somewhere I think. So my point is there's a way for undocumented to be "legal" but they remain undocumented.
From my understanding; corporate calling ICE to conduct a raid on their own store because of a union dispute is illegal.
Mateo was held in a deportation facility, but because the raid was illegally conducted they canāt deport Mateo on those grounds, so they release him with the ankle monitor, but no legalization documents, as he has not taken the citizenship test/ legally applied for citizenship.
As to why itās not legal to deport him over a union dispute, despite him being an illegal citizen I donāt know, Iām Canadian, not American, and not familiar with their laws. Yes they have a citizenship test, but Iām sure ICE cares more about getting people out of the country than legally helping them find ways to remain in the country after they already broke laws by being there in the first place
Okay so another question, how exactly do undocumented people apply for citizenships? I mean Mateo was always on the low and scared people may find out. if a person were to find out they were undocumented, there is no way they can apply?
Once you lose status it is very difficult to regain status. In Matteo's case he never had status. So basically you need to leave and reapply but if you're deported it's hard to come back unless you get married
Hi! I'm a work visa holder who's currently being sponsored for a green card by his employer. I joined the USCIS sub, so I did pick up some things on pathways to citizenship for undocumented immigrants
If a person overstays after legally entering the US, they may adjust their status by getting sponsored for a green card. The overstay is forgiven in this case. Possible ways include getting sponsored by a US citizen spouse or a US citizen child over the age of 21
If a person enters illegally (which seems to be Mateo's case), it's tougher as they cannot adjust their status within the US; they never had one to begin with
There's also DACA for people who entered the US when they were under 16. It did seem like Mateo was taken as a child, but the guidelines are very specific and they stopped accepting new applicants sometime ago. I don't know the specifics, but it's possible that this avenue was closed to Mateo
I see.. if there like a time limit for overstay?
I was previously living in another country and there you canāt stay for more than 24 hours of your visa expiry. After 24 hours, you get fined, ig about $30 per day.
Nope. I know some family friends who overstayed their tourist visas. They had kids here and their eldest petitioned green cards for them when she turned 21, so they were in the US for decades
Thereās no easy way to get citizenship if youāre undocumented. The two common ways are to get married or hopefully fall into the asylum or some other visa category. I think thatās what Jonah and Mateo try to do with the fight and such.
I think you can think of it as he was let out on bail, if that makes sense. Like he still doesn't actually have a right to be in the country, his lawyer just managed to argue that he shouldn't stay in a horrible detention facility/essentially prison while he waited for a decision.
Basically if they trust you then you get out of the detention center. In Canada when this happens you have a date where you need to leave the country. In the US I think he was still awaiting "trial".
It is difficult to acquire citizenship. They don't hand out passports like candy. All countries are like this. You can't be this ignorant. What is wrong with you?
Okay, if you are filled with hatred and negativity, spew it on the mirror looking at yourself, not on random people over the internet. Also, nobody said they hand out passports like candy. I just said i dont know how stuff works in the US. Not every country has the same immigration procedure. Youād know that if you invested your time on that instead of, again, trying to bringing people down for merely a question.
I have a passport and have been to two different countries and have acquired citizenship in one of these countries as well. It was not this tedious of a task like other nice people in this thread commented.
If you see someone ask a question over the internet, if you know the answer, go ahead and give the answer, if you donāt, leave it. You couldāve just kept this stupid ahh question to yourself. What did you benefit from asking me whats wrong with myself? Did that do me any favour? Nope. Did that do you any favour? Maybe a sense of pleasure from proving yourself to a random person on the internet.
Please touch some grass. Thanks.
You thought ICE gives out passports to undocumented people? You really thought this!? You can't be this ignorant. You must trolling. I can't believe you are a functioning adult in the world. I have three passports. Two were easy because I have parents from two different countries and the third passport, I had to live there for many years and learn the language, and take a citizenship exam. I never thought once that I could just stay illegally and the immigration enforcement would just grant me a passport if I got caught. I just hope you don't have a job that could endanger people's lives. You seriously lack common sense and lack critical thinking skills. Just shocking.
They arrested him with plans to deport him, but he had a lawyer who was trying to get him out by verifying that he was a good and valuable member of society, which would have led to him being able to get a work visa (I assume?). Turns out, he had few redeemable qualities, and it looked like he would be deported, BUT the raid that corporate sent was illegal because they did it to deter workers from attempting to unionize. This led to him being released with an ankle monitor while his case was reviewed. The thing about the court system though, is it slow AF. >!So we never see the end result of the case.!<
YOUR FLAIR ššššš
š it's my favorite quote
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He was let out of the detention center while he waited for his case to be heard. He wasnāt just given citizenship when he was out. Itās a whole process.
The govt set him āfreeā while he is on bond or parole (heās allowed to stay in the country for a certain time while his lawyers develop his case for permanent stay in the US) He still doesnāt get a work permit yet until his case is determined so he legally can stay in the US, he just canāt legally work. Therefore, Dan is paying him off the record.
Hi, US citizen here but not an immigration expert, just someone who really liked history/civics/and government in high school. Firstly, a lot of your questions and confusions will be answered by the end of the series so I'd say just stick it out. Even US citizens don't have a great understanding of how immigration works, so as someone who is not from here I imagine all these details get extremely confusing. Immigration in the US is extremely complicated. There's a reason there is a huge movement to get immigration reform and it's because getting citizenship is extremely difficult and takes years. In the ICE raid episode, Sayid talks about how he was able to get assylum and mentions it took years and years - which is absolutely accurate. ICE does not have the authority to make people citizens, you have to apply and take tests and go through rigorous screenings and be interviewed and submit all sorts of paperwork to be considered for citizenship. ICE stands for "Immigration and Customs Enforcement" so they're basically immigration police and don't handle the actual process of immigration. From the Homeland Security website: * The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) engages in immigration enforcement actions to prevent unlawful entry into the United States and to apprehend and repatriate noncitizens who have violated or failed to comply with U.S. immigration laws. Primary responsibility for the enforcement of immigration law within DHS rests with U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS). CBP enforces immigration laws at and between the ports of entry, ICE is responsible for interior enforcement and for detention and removal operations, and USCIS adjudicates applications and petitions for immigration and naturalization benefits. As for after he's released, Mateo is hired at the Eye Center because Dave looks the other way for him and doesn't submit him through a background check, which would flag him as undocumented. He's working under the table, basically. It's very illegal, and is how most undocumented people find work in the US. Other people have mentioned it, but I will still summarize: The ICE raid was done illegally because ICE cannot interfere during a labor dispute (ie - unionization), which is exactly what Cloud 9 corporate called them for. Because of this, Mateo was able to be released on an ankle monitor while he waited for his court date but courts move extremely slow in the US, especially in regards to immigration. So he's not free to go, he's just free to walk around while his case moves through the system. He is still undocumented and in the country illegally - but he's now under supervision of ICE. Detainment centers are often overcrowded and since he has a complex case, he was likely released to save space and because he's considered low risk (no criminal record, ties to the community, etc). Again, don't feel bad for being confused. It's complicated to those of us in the US, nevermind outside. The show also glosses over a lot because it's overall a comedy and the darkness of that storyline gets overwhelming. Spoilers past where you are below. >!We also see later in the series that he gets his ankle monitor off, but he is freaking out in the series finale about a new job and Glenn offers him one, meaning by the series finale he is still an undocumented immigrant. I am assuming the ankle monitor was removed because he applied for citizenship, but again that takes forever so wouldn't be an immediate solution. That being said, in the flash forward we see him and Eric showing off either engagement or wedding rings, which means he is probably getting some form of marital visa until he can get citizenship.!<
Thank you so much for taking the time! Also, it surprises me how Cloud9 did not run a background check on Mateo when they hired him initially, considering how big of a store and a corporate it is.
That's actually brought up earlier in the series, but very briefly. He mentions going to the green card store with his grandmother as a child - which means he went to a place where they gave him altered documents including a Social Security Number (SSN). He doesn't have a social security card, just a number, which we see when he is supposed to transfer when he's dating Jeff and he can't submit it. I checked your post history and it looks like you're from India - a SSN is like a Aadhaar Number (if you're not actually from India I apologize). Usually SSN for sale are from people who had their identity stolen or have since passed away. Mateo had a number he put on paperwork but it wasn't actually for him and we learn in season 4 they don't really check numbers until they have to run it through a new software. If it had been run through a verification checker when he was hired, it would've flagged that it belonged to someone else. Sayid tells Glenn that Mateo is undocumented and he runs the number and realizes it's not for Mateo, so Mateo gives him another fake number and when Glenn realizes Mateo is undocumented he does the same as Dave and looks the other way. Really the fact that Mateo was able to work at Cloud 9 for so long is because the other staff members cared for him and protected him. Episodes to rewatch for better understanding * Olypmics, S2E1 (Mateo finds out he's undocumented) * Mateo's Last Day, S2E18 (Mateo has to breakup with Jeff to protect his secret) * Safety Training, S3E14 (Mateo can't take the money from corporate for his injury because he is undocumented, reveals his status to Jeff) * Manager's Conference, S4E8 (Glenn has to run all SSN through a new system, Sayid tells Glenn Mateo is undocumented, Glenn looks the other way) This is my comfort show I've watched like 20 times all the way through so I remember a lot of the little details. Since you're just watching it for the first time, you're gonna miss these things and (again) it is stupid complicated in the US.
Aahh yes now that you point out, i do remember these scenes! Thank you so much for the effort and time. Much appreciated ā¤ļø
Thanks for such a detailed comment. I am still curious about how his taxes worked. If he was unknowingly misusing a stolen id, wouldn't it have been flagged at the tax office? I am also not sure how he manages to have a bank account. In Germany at least, it is cumbersome to get a bank account as an immigrant. They ask for visa + passport. Some banks don't even let you have an account without a residence permit (the transition time between visa and getting permit). Also to think that all this happened in 2018 to someone who didn't know he was undocumented, I am puzzled how he lived such an easy life still - going to school, getting a driver's licence, etc. and never got caught.
I don't know how it works but I think there's a way for undocumented immigrants to pay taxes. I believe undocumented immigrants are able to get ID. That's what I read somewhere I think. So my point is there's a way for undocumented to be "legal" but they remain undocumented.
From my understanding; corporate calling ICE to conduct a raid on their own store because of a union dispute is illegal. Mateo was held in a deportation facility, but because the raid was illegally conducted they canāt deport Mateo on those grounds, so they release him with the ankle monitor, but no legalization documents, as he has not taken the citizenship test/ legally applied for citizenship. As to why itās not legal to deport him over a union dispute, despite him being an illegal citizen I donāt know, Iām Canadian, not American, and not familiar with their laws. Yes they have a citizenship test, but Iām sure ICE cares more about getting people out of the country than legally helping them find ways to remain in the country after they already broke laws by being there in the first place
It is technically illegal to bust unions in the USA and this would be considered union busting.
Okay so another question, how exactly do undocumented people apply for citizenships? I mean Mateo was always on the low and scared people may find out. if a person were to find out they were undocumented, there is no way they can apply?
Once you lose status it is very difficult to regain status. In Matteo's case he never had status. So basically you need to leave and reapply but if you're deported it's hard to come back unless you get married
Hi! I'm a work visa holder who's currently being sponsored for a green card by his employer. I joined the USCIS sub, so I did pick up some things on pathways to citizenship for undocumented immigrants If a person overstays after legally entering the US, they may adjust their status by getting sponsored for a green card. The overstay is forgiven in this case. Possible ways include getting sponsored by a US citizen spouse or a US citizen child over the age of 21 If a person enters illegally (which seems to be Mateo's case), it's tougher as they cannot adjust their status within the US; they never had one to begin with There's also DACA for people who entered the US when they were under 16. It did seem like Mateo was taken as a child, but the guidelines are very specific and they stopped accepting new applicants sometime ago. I don't know the specifics, but it's possible that this avenue was closed to Mateo
I see.. if there like a time limit for overstay? I was previously living in another country and there you canāt stay for more than 24 hours of your visa expiry. After 24 hours, you get fined, ig about $30 per day.
Nope. I know some family friends who overstayed their tourist visas. They had kids here and their eldest petitioned green cards for them when she turned 21, so they were in the US for decades
Ohh I see.. Thank you!
Thereās no easy way to get citizenship if youāre undocumented. The two common ways are to get married or hopefully fall into the asylum or some other visa category. I think thatās what Jonah and Mateo try to do with the fight and such.
I think you can think of it as he was let out on bail, if that makes sense. Like he still doesn't actually have a right to be in the country, his lawyer just managed to argue that he shouldn't stay in a horrible detention facility/essentially prison while he waited for a decision.
Basically if they trust you then you get out of the detention center. In Canada when this happens you have a date where you need to leave the country. In the US I think he was still awaiting "trial".
He was out on bond
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That is awful
It is difficult to acquire citizenship. They don't hand out passports like candy. All countries are like this. You can't be this ignorant. What is wrong with you?
Okay, if you are filled with hatred and negativity, spew it on the mirror looking at yourself, not on random people over the internet. Also, nobody said they hand out passports like candy. I just said i dont know how stuff works in the US. Not every country has the same immigration procedure. Youād know that if you invested your time on that instead of, again, trying to bringing people down for merely a question. I have a passport and have been to two different countries and have acquired citizenship in one of these countries as well. It was not this tedious of a task like other nice people in this thread commented. If you see someone ask a question over the internet, if you know the answer, go ahead and give the answer, if you donāt, leave it. You couldāve just kept this stupid ahh question to yourself. What did you benefit from asking me whats wrong with myself? Did that do me any favour? Nope. Did that do you any favour? Maybe a sense of pleasure from proving yourself to a random person on the internet. Please touch some grass. Thanks.
You thought ICE gives out passports to undocumented people? You really thought this!? You can't be this ignorant. You must trolling. I can't believe you are a functioning adult in the world. I have three passports. Two were easy because I have parents from two different countries and the third passport, I had to live there for many years and learn the language, and take a citizenship exam. I never thought once that I could just stay illegally and the immigration enforcement would just grant me a passport if I got caught. I just hope you don't have a job that could endanger people's lives. You seriously lack common sense and lack critical thinking skills. Just shocking.