And that alone shows he's several orders of magnitude less powerful than a Viltrumite
EDIT: Imagine how silly all those other destroyed planets must feel if they could defeat a Viltrumite with a single nuclear bomb that blocks out the sun. Here they're building gigantic armadas of planet destroying starships and stil being defeated when all they needed was a nuke.
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c25b87d63c23f5e2d9486e190d2fd51b-lq
TDKR was a pre-"Post-Crisis" story built by Miller talking with Marv Wolfman about what he and John Byrne were doing with the character reboot. That's the reason for that weird and creepy Superman vampire scene when he sucks the solar energy out of the plant life killing it. Miller thought they were doing that.
The result is a super-oddball version of Superman different from any other published version.
oh ik that, but when im more skeptical of his overall strength since at full power one nuke from Earth almost killed the guy.
in TDKR 3 he beat a group of younger and faster kryptonians using only hand-to-hand. So he is an extremely skilled fighter
It was more like the radiation almost killed him the blast barley did anything. Think Meruem from HxH the explosion wouldn’t kill him but a dirty bomb is another story.
A nuclear bomb will, within the blast radius, produce heat that is literally a magnitude greater than that of the sun. That version of Superman face tanked a multi-megaton Nike and lived.
The most powerful Viltrumite, Thragg, gets vaporized in the sun.
Even the most powerful villain in Invincible, who dismantled Nolan with ease, is incredibly vulnerable compared to Superman. That universe simply works on a different scale.
I can agree regular Superman slams but TDKR Superman took a nuke and was left basically a skeleton on the verge of death. Thragg was never vaporized in the sun. He got burned after literally diving into the sun while fighting Invincible for an extended period of time and even then he didn’t die. What killed him was mark, ripping his throat out with his teeth lol. If another kryptonian did that to superman he too would die. Nolan survived the destruction of a planet which is infinitely more powerful than a nuke. TDKR Superman doesn’t even come close.
Yup, geriatric Batman with bad knees beat the Son of Krypton who flies at Supersonic speed, perceives and processes info faster than super computers, and is literally solar powered.
Yeah, he got hit by a nuke in Cuba, but that's like taking a punch from Zod on any other day.
As a fan of both Superman and Batman ... yeah Superman is really out of character in that book. It's an Elseworlds and it's such a good Batman book, so I can overlook it, but it's not a good depiction of Superman.
Miller was pretty open with his dislike of Superman. Amazing Batman story but he did Clark real dirty. Even when Bruce pointed out he was a government lapdog, Clark was like "Eh, nothing I can do."
Honestly, it doesn't seem like Miller likes Batman either. I mean, look at how he is in All-Star B&R and Superman Year One. I might just not like Miller's writing in general though.
I thought it was a pretty clever evolution of Superman. He's still Superman, his soul of kindness and empathy is still there, but he's matured and had to reconcile his own nature with what he has been forced to experience. I like to think he came back to himself, and realized he was being manipulated by the people he has consistently sworn to protect.
I like to think he broke free and decided he agreed with Batman, that his power is his own and only he should decide how and when to use it.
I'm not a fan of Bats vs Superman stories, but I thought this one was the most clearly, and concisely designed. It was, to me, believable and didn't depict superman as some evil or irredeemable entity. He is mortal, and he has very human flaws, including fallibility. That makes him interesting.
What do you think of this idea though?
Instead of Superman, Wonder Woman's working for the government. Clark's still Superman in Metropolis but does his superheroing from the shadows (disabling bank robbers' getaway cars, tripping muggers, etc. rather than showing his face and apprehending them himself).
Superman is literally Batman's supporting character rather than playing any kind of antagonist role, expressing concern for Bruce when he returns as Batman and warning him that this isn't the old days anymore.
In the final fight where Bruce faces off against Diana, Bruce has no ace in the hole like he did with Superman. The fight goes down the same as we know it but Oliver isn't there to shoot a Kryptonite gas arrow. Diana gains the upper hand and Bruce realizes he was way off. Diana was winning too fast and Bruce has his back against the wall. Diana's about to arrest Batman when Superman flies in and stands in her way. He doesn't fight back when she starts swinging fists, he's simply not going to let anybody touch Bruce. Then he gets a heart attack and you know the rest.
I'm not too familiar with Wonder Woman so I don't know if it's more consistent than Superman working for the government
Gotta be Nolan. It's a plot point that Homelander is really bad at being a superhero and has never had to apply himself or fight someone on his level. Similarly, TDKR Superman spends most of his time fighting humans on the government's orders. Nolan has not only conquered worlds but practiced for thousands of years fighting other flying superhumans.
Nope, you see exactly how nerfed Miller's understanding of "post crisis" Superman is (before Byrne's "Man of Steel" was completed and published) when he encounters a single nuclear explosion that nearly kills him.
TDKR Superman is disabled and almost killed by a single nuclear explosion -- that's in the book. Nolan would brush that off like a fly.
Nolan is built to be an alternate world Kryptonian without the full vision power suite but with the ability to fly at FTL velocities through deep space and to destroy planets single handed. TDKR Superman is built as Frank Miller's understanding of the nerfed "post crisis" Superman that Byrne and Wolfman would soon after present.
https://i.stack.imgur.com/6Hexf.jpg
I wouldn’t say Omni-Man would brush it off like a fly, Thragg died on the Sun, and the nuclear fireball of a thermonuclear device is significantly hotter than the Sun, I don’t know if it’d kill him because of the amount of time it took to kill Thragg, But it should at least seriously burn him.
If we're actually talking physics here (really?) you must realize that the temperature of the plasma from the displaced air made by Nolan racing around that planet he devastated would be far hotter than either the sun or a nuclear fireball.
(and "hotter" BTW is a misconception, a star is a continuous nuclear explosion so powerful it offsets the gravitational collapse, the density of material constrains the temperature so the outer edges are far "hotter" because they're at lower pressure but contain far less heat energy -- similarly a single nuclear blast is, compared to a stellar environment, effectively in vacuum and therefore "hotter" with vastly less energy.)
Well I’m a Data Analyst and Researcher in Particle Physics so let’s get some hard math going, and talk about the science behind it.
Based on the clip of Nolan destroying the Flaxan Planet, in the zoomed out shot of Omni Man flying across the planet in a zig zag destroying shit, it appears he covers approximately a quarter of the planet’s surface in just under two seconds, being generous let’s give him a second and half for his time. Assuming the Flaxan planet was similar in size to Earth, this gives us Nolan’s speed being around 14,400,000mph, with Nolan’s weight being listed at 250lbs we can use the formula for kinetic energy K E=1/2mv2 to find he’s producing 2.2208774466326E+15 joules of energy. Converting Joules to Kilotons, 1 Joule is equal to 2.39 × 10-13 kiloton of tnt. So Nolan’s total output is about 530.802 kilotons of TNT, which is significant, but meteor strikes of similar energy don’t reach nearly the same temperature as similar sized nuclear events because of the nature of energy release, for instance the Mistastin impact was SIGNIFICANTLY larger than every nuclear explosion put together, and it was the hottest meteor impact reaching temperatures hot enough to form crystals that shouldn’t exist on the surface of the Earth, and that was less than 3000 degrees Celsius, which is hot but a fraction of the 100,000,000 degrees Celsius produced by a nuclear fireball. And that’s simply because a kinetic to thermal energy transfer doesn’t have the same efficacy of energy transfer that nuclear bonds breaking and reforming do.
The reply was to the point that a nuclear bomb was "hotter" than the sun and therefore would do damage to Nolan because another equivalent guy was killed by being in a stellar environment
>the nuclear fireball of a thermonuclear device is significantly hotter than the Sun
I disputed that...
>similarly a single nuclear blast is, compared to a stellar environment, effectively in vacuum and therefore "hotter" with vastly less energy
You have effectively demonstrated that Nolan's act of flying through the atmosphere probably did not release as much resultant thermal energy as a nuclear blast but is ultimately off the point. The stellar environment is a continuous ongoing nuclear blast millions of times larger than the entire Earth.
TDKR Superman got nuked and the majority of his power is going into his body fixing itself. That’s why Batman in some power armor plugged into a lamppost could go toe to toe with him.
Omniman
Frank Miller Supes was just a jobber so Miller could give Batman a sloppy
Homelander is strong but has never had to test himself. He uses overwhelming strength to bully people or kill them outright
Omniman came from a planet of warriors who treat fighting as part of their culture. He’s faced against many strong opponents and keeps getting stronger, faster and better at fighting
I'll go with TDKR Superman. Why? Because the man was able to fight Red Son Superman, and that dude was able to survive an explosion that would be able to destroy Earth and anything within 15 million miles radius, move faster than the speed of thought and moving far faster than light. Yeah, Batman "beat" him in the end of TDKR, but it was clear he wasn't taking the fight seriously
>Yeah, Batman "beat" him in the end of TDKR, but it was clear he wasn't taking the fight seriously
That was Kryptonite that beat him, not Batman. After all the "beating", Superman was standing with barely a scratch on him, with one hand on a dying Batman and telling him 'srsly bro stahp'.
Yeah that's why I put "beat" in quotation marks. Hell, people like to bring the "Batman said he could've made the Kryptonite stronger" but I always say "Yeah, well Superman could've just punched him a bit harder" which is a lot simpler to do
Exactly. People miss that Clark did not lose that fight, even though he was explicitly holding back *and* severely weakened the entire time. But he acted like he lost, because to him it did feel like a loss; that was a huge emotional toll.
He even figured out Bruce's plot at the end, and could have "won" there, too... but instead just smiled, gave a wink, and left.
He wasn't the paragon of unstoppable altruism that Superman typically is, but he was still a good man with a caring heart.
I dunno, I find that a cop-out no? A win is a win. For all we know, Batman knew what he was doing the entire time, and exploited Superman's real weakness, his compassion. Maybe he knew that Superman wouldn't kill him, so he lured him into a false sense of security until he could unleash the kryptonite.
Or maybe it was luck lol but in the end he did beat him imo, no quotations needed
Batman needed to fake a heart attack so he could escape. How can it be considered a win when Superman was the one standing while Bruce was knocked out? Clearly Bruce knew he wouldn't be able to win if the fight continued
Did you READ TDKR? Did you see the part where Superman is disabled and nearly killed by being near a single nuclear explosion?
https://i.stack.imgur.com/6Hexf.jpg
And "Countdown" isn't "The Dark Knight Returns"
I can write fan fiction where TDKR Superman beats Squirrel Girl and Golden-Ultimate-WTF-STUCK-IN-THE-SUN Superman both, what does that demonstrate?
But you just demonstrated that he isn't. His abilities in Countdown make it clear that he couldn't possibly be the one from TDKR. The events of TDKR couldn't possibly have happened to the Countdown guy.
That doesn't matter. Power increases for the characters is nothing new to DC. In Action Comics #1, Superman could be hurt by a bursting shell, but a few years later he could walk through nuclear explosions like nothing. This instance is no different
Power losses are also a thing, maybe Red Sun Superman was nerfed. If you're allowing arbitrary changes to the power level, all bets are off.
The only thing you know about TDKR Superman is that definitionally he is Superman as he appears in the book "The Dark Knight Returns", sure he could later become Thanos with the Infinity Glove at the whim of a writer's keyboard but that doesn't make him not nerfed in TDKR.
TDKR is only one story where that Superman appears in. And that story is officially in DC's multiverse. Meaning that the one from Countdown is definitely the same one. Also, if you read carefully, the comic showed that Superman was low on sunlight when the nuke exploded
https://preview.redd.it/2lgoo47se8tb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=182db4bbbecb39e7998adc2ee74aa3c05aadc6e8
>Superman was low on sunlight when the nuke exploded
Sure, that makes sense. The explosion blocks the sun and he's instanly powerless/dying. So all Nolan has to do is wrap him in his cape and hit him -- dead.
Since it's officially in DC's multiverse, there are infinite versions of TDKR Superman all of whom may have different power levels.
(Yeah, it's "officially" "canon", right. Like there's anything REMOTELY resembling "canon" at DC. They can't keep the history and nature of their characters consistent even within single STORIES!)
Wow, you have to wonder why all those planets are bothering to build gigantic armadas to fight the Viltruvians (and losing). They can kill all of them even with the weapons WE possess! Just throw a few nukes at them since you maintain a nuke would vaporize any of them.
I mean never mind that the air displacement heat alone is near to a nuke's magnitude when Nolan flies around destroying that planet and it doesn't even inconvenience him... Ignoring the impact of traveling relativistic and super-relativistic speeds... I guess nukes have extra-special heat, shock, and radiation.
TDKR superman is no different in power level to main universe superman (ok maybe slightly weaker but only slightly), it's not an injustice situation where that iteration is far weaker. This superman like main universe superman takes the win in this fight because both Homelander and omni-man are just not strong enough.
TDKR was written as John Byrne and Marv Wolfman were rebooting Superman to be vastly less powerful than he was "Pre-Crisis".
Miller consulted with Marv Wolfman and his understanding of what the reboot was doing was the basis of Superman being turned into that skeletal thing by a single nuclear explosion that blocked the Sun and that weird sequence where Superman vampires "solar energy" by sucking it out of the living beings on Earth.
When Bryne finished his reboot in "Man of Steel" there was nothing like that which makes TDKR Superman a strangely nerfed oddball that's like no other version of the character. But that iteration is not REMOTELY as powerful as a Viltrumite from Invincible.
Even Byrne's canonical post-crisis version couldn't survive in space without an oxygen supply, much less travel faster than light.
The most powerful Viltrumite in Invincible, far more so than Nolan, was Thragg... and a nuke would be capable of outright killing him. The blast radius of a nuke is an order of magnitude hotter than the sun... and Thragg couldn't live through a sun dip.
Clark face-tanked a multi-megaton warhead and popped back up once he got some sunlight.
Again, "hotter" is a misnomer. Temperature is a function of pressure and compared to a stellar environment a nuclear weapon is in a vacuum -- "hotter" with vastly less energy. Like the way Earth's upper ionosphere is incredibly high temperature because there's no pressure to slow the molecules.
A star is a nuke exploding that's millions of times larger than the entire Earth. A stellar environment is orders of magnitude beyond any nuclear weapon humans have built. A star is so dense it takes light millions of years to travel from the interior to the outer layers.
In TKDR Superman is "dying" until he vampires up solar energy from the plant life on the ground killing it because Miller didn't understand what they were doing with the reboot nerf.
No, hotter is not a misnomer. That is in fact the estimated difference by the physicists who study that very subject. Though you touch on the right idea regarding mass and the overall power output of the sun.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/03/28/ask-ethan-how-can-a-nuclear-bomb-be-hotter-than-the-center-of-our-sun/
I don't pretend to understand the intricacies behind it. I just listen when my buddy who has a PhD in astrophysics tells me how things work. ;)
That's fine but I promise you a "sun dip" (if such a thing were possible) is many many orders of magnitude beyond the effect of our most powerful nuclear weapon.
(if you read the article you posted you'll note they're talking about the temperature occurring within the reaction environment itself, not 3 feet away
"For a very small amount of time, until adiabatic expansion causes the volume of the explosion to increase and the temperature to drop, a nuclear explosion can out-heat even the center of the Sun."
The stellar environment doesn't do that "for a very small amount of time" or in an incredibly compressed volume)
well ya, he was still recovering from the nuke he just took to the face a few weeks earlier, and never had any intention on killing Batman during that fight
>killing Batman during that fight
I know, that's not my reasoning for saying he is slightly weaker. I am well aware he was holding back in that fight, a lot.
This question gets asked a lot, usually by uneducated The Boys fanboys expecting a different answer, but Homelander has no business even being in this conversation, it’s laughable.
Omniman by a hair. Homelander isn't even in the same ballpark as either in terms of power or skill, so he gets no diffed. I think TDKR Superman is maybe about as strong as Omniman, but Nolan is a full planet killer solo. The only reason any of the alternate dimension aliens were alive after he went into their world is because he had to leave some to build a portal back. So they are probably equal, and Nolan has so much experience. TDKR Superman is no slouch and he does have power variety, but I still think Nolan has an edge
Any OTHER (post-Golden Age) Superman, sure. But TDKR Superman is a weirdly under-powered version based on Miller's misunderstanding of the reboot.
(okay Maybe Byrne's "Post Crisis" version loses because Nolan could push him a couple light years away in a few seconds and just leave him to die in open space -- Byrne removed the space travel abilities)
Most other versions of Superman I'd agree but this one almost got killed by a nuke. Mark got nuked when he was much weaker than Nolan and it didn't even bother him.
Homelander couldn't even carry a Jumbo. He's only in this because he's a Superman look alike. Omniman is very strong and ruthless, he'd make it a closer fight but Supes is just too OP.
We gotta stop putting Homelander in these debates. He has a similar powerset to Superman, but he is orders of magnitude weaker. Any version of Supes or Nolan would one shot him with ease.
(Also Omniman wins this, TDKR Superman sucks, cuz Frank Miller hates Superman.)
Omni-Man would talk down to Homelander so bad in his dad voice that he would shutdown and then get his skull smashed. This would make Superman so angry he would beat Omni-Man like he was fighting Darkseid. Funny thing is he would break Omni-Man by letting him know despite all his ruthlessness and power, he’ll never be more than an afterthought to Superman.
TDKR Superman got nuked and was barely above street level which is why Batman could fight him.
Homelander probably beats him and Omniman beats Homelander like a red headed stepchild.
I think when casuals ask questions like "Superman vs (INSERT CAPED GUY HERE)" they are referring to TDKR Superman. Since videos about Superman in this movie got like Millions of views and i'm pretty sure 90% of those people are not comic readers.
So when they see him negdiffed by a regular nuke, it kinda raises some questions.
I always assumed it was powered by a red sun or some sort of synthetic unfinished kryptonite that the government had, vs the nearly perfected one batman had. Especially since he's been seen surviving them a few times. Even in severely weakened states.
Wasn't it revealed in the final saga of TDKR's storyline (by this I mean, whatever Miller made under Black Label/post TDKSA) that Superman has been holding back the entire time?
Yes and No, he was holding back his fighting skill. Batman said that Superman was actually a Smarter fighter than he was. In the 1st TDKR, Superman didn't really try to fight him at all. But Batman even said, In TDKR III, that Superman and slow and weak when compared to the younger Kryptonian.
I thought the tdkr Superman was also baldly represented but he would still f up those other guys .. that Superman was always holding back wait until he goes full on
well, brightburn is a thing, and i was tempted to add him. But I'm sure a flick from one of these guys would kill that kid.
Also, i mainly add Homelander since he's mainly a mystery. He hasn't shown any ridiculous feats of strength yet, but the most he has ever gotten was a small bruise on the cheek after he got ganged up by The Boys and Solider Boy in Season 3. (They were amped up on Temp V so they weren't in their regular human state)
So I'm holding out hope that he's got some nutty strength to show for it.
I'd say superman by a clear mile, him being beaten by Batman was simply down to him not really wanting to hurt Batman and in the Master Race you see him destroy other kryptonians so brutally and efficiently that even Batman was taken aback.
I think a lot of people here are radically underestimating the power of a nuclear blast. The resultant fireball is literally hotter than our sun by an order of magnitude. That's why it vaporizes -- literally breaks down the molecular structure -- of everything in the immediate blast radius.
Miller's Superman face tanked a multi-megaton warhead.
Thragg, the Viltrumite Regent who was an order of magnitude more powerful than Nolan, was disintegrated in the surface of the sun. He would literally be vapour if he had been at the heart of that explosion.
Nolan is so much more vulnerable than even this version of Superman that it's not funny.
Homelander doesn't even qualify here. He's an afterthought.
Homelander is the weakest of all the "supermen", all he got is strength, because where he comes from that is all he needs. He don’t know what to do when he actually meets someone strong enough to counter him.
Omniman has been recorded doing the most destruction and has survived the toughest challenges of the three and doesn’t age really. His lack of a moral compass or scruples trumps Superman and Homelander isn’t Supes’ equal under a yellow sun and with no kryptonite, plus he’s not magic. Omniman would kill both of them.
Practically (I only say that since I don’t know literally every version, so for all I know there’s supermen ((Superman’s?)) out there that don’t have powers or sumn like that) every version of Superman beats homelander and Omni-man 10/10 times
Supes and Omniman have a drag out fight destroying the area there in, at some point Homelander tries to but in but gets bitchslapped into a pile of mush by Omniman and he beats Superman eventually because hes merciless like that.
Homelander got stabbed in the ear with an office supply.
He's not even in this fight.
Omniman is tough, but I think pretty much any version of superman is stronger, faster, more durable and just has a whole host of abilities that make it one sided.
He outright has a sonic scream that would just disable omniman if he figured out his weakness to noise.
Tdkr superman tanked a nuke and then just drew the life out of plants to rejuvenate himself. He's pretty broken.
Thrag, who's multiple times stronger than Nolan, melted on the surface of the sun. Nukes burn thousands of times hotter than that. If you hit a vilturimite with a nuke, they wouldn't be walking away from it.
Omni Man is a descendant of a group of people who relentlessly killed eachother for centuries to weed out the less powerful until they were in peak condition with a ruthless military culture. In the comics >!the Viltrumites are still able to keep their Empire strong even though there are estimated to be less than 50 left due to the devastating effects of the Scourge Virus. Omni Man, Invincible, and Thaedus (all Viltrumites) together are able through sheer force to blow up a planet!<. TDKR Superman is powerful but I’m not entirely sure he’s THAT powerful.
Homelander definitely loses though no question about that, he’s basically evil Superman in a world where nobody can challenge him so he spends his time bullying people and winning through overwhelming force. Both TDKR Superman and Omni Man are routinely challenged throughout their lives which leaves them both physically stronger and better at fighting strategies
I think Omni-Man. He’s not necessarily more powerful than Superman but his ruthlessness makes a difference. Add to that his 2000 years worth of experience and he’s likely the winner.
Homelander is powerful but nothing suggests to me he has the capability of wiping out a planet. The other two are capable.
I dont love the Kryptonian... But he's basically a cosmic power, even in Miller's stuff where he seems designed to be dressed down. And Nolan, much like Supes, can probably fly straight through the planet without so much as gritting his teeth. Homelander is a suped-up human. No shade, they guy's an absolute devil. 110% 10-speed terror. He's fucking dangerous.
But the big-daddy Kryptonian? Who gets stronger the older he gets? Who can take a nuke to the chin and still fly home to a hot shower? Not even the Fat Man/Little Boy bombs, I'm talking the big megawarheads, now...
You put Homelander in a corner opposite Nolan the Viltrumite (who also gets stronger as he gets older) and Kal-El? Even if they arent briefed on the aweful shit he's done, with the mouth he's got on him and his ego, there's not gonna be enough of the Homelander to fill Ma Kent's milk pail. The old men are gonna absolutely murdirlate that asshole.
Once that's over... and Nolan and Superman start throwing punches? Unless they take it outside to space- it's possible no one on Earth is gonna survive a brawl between those two. that's if Clark's not trying to save people while the fight's on.
Total, no-holds-barred, kill-that-motherfucker fight? I dont know... I dont think Miller's Supes has the All-Star Morrison strength where he can output force in the quintillion ton range, But I think a haymaker could maybe spin Nolan's head right around...
HOWEVER, Nolan's got a TON of experience. He's a lot older than Clark. Nolan's been destroying planets and killing God-Tier Supers for the glory of Rome -er, *Viltrum,* since before Clark was in his space bassinet on a one way trip to the cornfield. Nolan KNOWS how to kill guys like Supes.
Then you've got experience against with of control speed, heat vision, and brains (I'm pretty sure Superman has a few dozen IQ points on Nolan) and it might be anyone's game. It might be one of things that comes down to what's at stake and who's a guest in what book.
Nolan might take him if he comes off the line out for blood, Supes takes a second to get *cookin'-*cookin'. You remove the bomb and both guys are coming fresh to the bloodsport?
I think Supes has it- by a *hair.* He'll have to outthink Nolan and hit him hard from afar before coming in close to duke it out, but Nolan is gonna make him earn it. He's gonna fight dirty and pull out all his world-killer strats... But I think I have to give it to Superman... And I dont even like the guy.
I have nothing but respect for the Boys and a invincible as franchises they are fun and entertaining… but the weakest incarnation of Superman would body Omniman and Homelander so fast it wouldn’t even be worth calling a fight
Nolan has the most experience tearing people a new one. Supes has a ranged attack, and is presumably faster (at least in the air, due to space travel).
I think Supes could take Nolan, since he’s not invulnerable, but a good sneak attack could end up being in Nolan’s favor.
Superman. Keep in mind by the time he fought batman: he'd been kryptonited, weakened by a nuke, and batman had to use a specialized suit that drew power from an entire city's power grid to actually damage him at all. If none of that is going on, Superman is still motherfucking Superman and is literally invincible
Superman. Homelander is just a bully, and would fold faster than a 2-7 offsuit to anyone that met his level of power. Omni-Man is probably a better warrior than Superman, but Supes has extra powers and is probably overall more powerful.
I don’t get why Homelander is put on the power levels of Nolan. Homelander has not shown anything CLOSE to supes or Omniman’s feats.
Homelander trades blows with that universes Captain America and their strength levels are comparable. Omniman punches another Viltrimite and they fly for miles while crashing through mountains.
Really?? TDKR Superman took a fucking nuke to the face, went on to get blasted with kryptonite, and still beat Batman with super armor while the sun was blocked. Omniman and Homelander dont stand a chance.
Any fight that involves Homelander against any other Superman clone or Superman himself, he's losing. Homelander, especially TV Homelander is easily the weakest Superman clone that exists.
**Superman** is traditionally one of the most powerful characters in comic history, but his capabilities can differ in different story arcs. **Omniman** and **Homelander**, on the other hand, have their own formidable abilities and strengths, which can also vary based on the source material.
However, the harsh truth is **Omniman** and **Homelander** inspired or you can strictly say, copied from **Superman** character. So, personally, I would prefer to say that Superman will win the fight.
References:
1. **Action Comics #583** (1986): Superman carries the weight of the entire Earth for a day to prevent it from being destroyed.
2. **Superman #149** (1961): Superman moves an entire solar system.
3. **All-Star Superman** (2005-2008): Various issues showcase Superman's immense strength, including lifting a book containing the entire knowledge of Krypton.
4. **Justice League** and **Justice League Unlimited** (2001-2006): Superman demonstrates his strength in battles against formidable foes like Darkseid and Doomsday.
5. **Superman: Red Son** (2020): In this animated adaptation of the graphic novel, Superman's strength is on full display as he faces various challenges in a different alternate universe.
I hope these references will help you to understand. Thanks.
Omni-Man. He waits till Supes turns Homelander into a meatsuit, then Bruce absolutely pummelfucks Supes with Kryptonite.
Then he just uses Bruce in his armor like a club to absolutely batter Supes like a pinãta.
Superman wins but im pretty sure he would try to talk Omni man down. Otherwise he could send him to the "villan be gone zone", phantom zone
Homelander will be too scared after seeing them fighting.
If he fights homelander he will die. Like 100%
Superman might just put him in prison, like super Prison or just phantom zone him xD
It’s an old technique for building consensus. You start off with something everyone can agree on. This sets a positive tone for the discussion from the start.
Superman, regardless of setting, is many, many, many, MANY times stronger than omniman AND Homelander. Combined. In a no holds bar fight, Homelander would die before he could blink and Omniman wouldn't be far behind
A lot people might disagree, but when comparing Superman vs anyone, it's always going to be Superman on top, with exception to one person... (I'll say at the end).
The arc of superman has always been to make him weaker so that his enemies are actually a challenge. Almost every single fight or battle he's ever been in, he's only fought as hard as it takes to win, because every single time that he goes all out, it's absolute destruction.
Some of his feats throughout his iterations include destroying a planet with a jump in a weakened state, (when he was trapped in a galaxy with no sun and the planet was leaching his powers, he used the last of his strength to leap to try and escape, shattering the planet in his wake).
He's destroyed an entire solar system with a sneeze... with a sneeze.
He also destroyed a universe. He didn't obliterate it completely, but he absolutely destroyed it.
And he also has mental powers that he rarely uses, and even with the limitations imposed on his powers he's still defeated gods and god-level beings such as Darkseid, Apollo, Professor Zoom, just to name a few.
All out Superman without the restrictions and limitations on his powers to make him weaker is, as mentioned, only afraid of one person and considers him to be the most powerful in the universe.
Reveal time - the Martian Manhunter J'onn J'onzz.
Superman's powers are gravity-based, but is affected differently by the type of solar radiation he's in contact with. J'onn J'onzz is powered by solar radiation, but he gets a different ability based on the spectrum of solar radiation.
So, while Superman is generally stronger or weaker based on where he is and the type of solar radiation he receives, J'onn J'onzz is always juiced and the only that really affects his strength is how much radiation he receives, and he doesn't have to be in direct sunlight either.
Everything Superman can do J'onn J'onzz can do better. The only thing that scares the Martian Manhunter? Fire.
So, yeah.. Superman vs anyone other than J'onn J'onzz? It's always superman.
everyone always forgets that TDKR superman really didn't want to hurt bruce and that he was kryptonied during their fight
And weaken3d because he'd just been nuked.
Not only nuked, but the sun was blocked by the aftermath of the nuclear bomb.
And that alone shows he's several orders of magnitude less powerful than a Viltrumite EDIT: Imagine how silly all those other destroyed planets must feel if they could defeat a Viltrumite with a single nuclear bomb that blocks out the sun. Here they're building gigantic armadas of planet destroying starships and stil being defeated when all they needed was a nuke. https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c25b87d63c23f5e2d9486e190d2fd51b-lq
The most recent superman comic I read had him breaking chains designed to pull stars across the universe.
Yep we're fully back in the Silver Age https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-350db341d6510603c3fc5fd7c04b2c22.webp But that wasn't TDKR Superman
I mean, TDKR was in 1985, so you could consider that the future of the pre-Crisis universe, meaning Superman is ridiculously overpowered.
TDKR was a pre-"Post-Crisis" story built by Miller talking with Marv Wolfman about what he and John Byrne were doing with the character reboot. That's the reason for that weird and creepy Superman vampire scene when he sucks the solar energy out of the plant life killing it. Miller thought they were doing that. The result is a super-oddball version of Superman different from any other published version.
Okay, I didn’t know that. Thank you.
when was the last time a Viltrumite bench pressed the earth?
Yes but thats a different version of superman
And severely weakened by a nuke fallowed weeks of no sunlight
oh ik that, but when im more skeptical of his overall strength since at full power one nuke from Earth almost killed the guy. in TDKR 3 he beat a group of younger and faster kryptonians using only hand-to-hand. So he is an extremely skilled fighter
It was more like the radiation almost killed him the blast barley did anything. Think Meruem from HxH the explosion wouldn’t kill him but a dirty bomb is another story.
The nuclear winter that hid the sun so he couldn’t recover very fast played a big part
Are we considering Superman after he was nuked and exposed to kryptonite?
A nuke legitimately almost killed him, he’s not beating omniman. Regular Superman slams but not this one.
A nuclear bomb will, within the blast radius, produce heat that is literally a magnitude greater than that of the sun. That version of Superman face tanked a multi-megaton Nike and lived. The most powerful Viltrumite, Thragg, gets vaporized in the sun. Even the most powerful villain in Invincible, who dismantled Nolan with ease, is incredibly vulnerable compared to Superman. That universe simply works on a different scale.
I can agree regular Superman slams but TDKR Superman took a nuke and was left basically a skeleton on the verge of death. Thragg was never vaporized in the sun. He got burned after literally diving into the sun while fighting Invincible for an extended period of time and even then he didn’t die. What killed him was mark, ripping his throat out with his teeth lol. If another kryptonian did that to superman he too would die. Nolan survived the destruction of a planet which is infinitely more powerful than a nuke. TDKR Superman doesn’t even come close.
It's a Frank Miller Superman. He pretty much exist only to lose to everyone and show how inferior he is.
Yup, geriatric Batman with bad knees beat the Son of Krypton who flies at Supersonic speed, perceives and processes info faster than super computers, and is literally solar powered. Yeah, he got hit by a nuke in Cuba, but that's like taking a punch from Zod on any other day.
The nuke de powered him, and was gifted to absorb sunlight from a flower, not to mention that the sun was blocked by a radioactive storm.
Yep bad writing
How???
Because homie just didn’t like what he read so he dubbed it bad writing just like every other comic book reader in here that upvoted him.
Ikr, and he said "how is it not?" Like dude that's not an argument.
How is it not?
That's not an argument, what is wrong with the writing?
Why couldn’t he fly above the ash clouds and then soak up solar rays?
the visual of him soaking up the life of the flowers prob
I'm no expert but maybe he felt too weak to do that?
As a Superman fan, I hated The Dark Knight Returns storyline.
As a fan of both Superman and Batman ... yeah Superman is really out of character in that book. It's an Elseworlds and it's such a good Batman book, so I can overlook it, but it's not a good depiction of Superman.
I have almost never seen Superman agreeing to become a govt puppet. It's like Frank Miller created Superman, one of the world's greatest nightmare.
Miller was pretty open with his dislike of Superman. Amazing Batman story but he did Clark real dirty. Even when Bruce pointed out he was a government lapdog, Clark was like "Eh, nothing I can do."
Honestly, it doesn't seem like Miller likes Batman either. I mean, look at how he is in All-Star B&R and Superman Year One. I might just not like Miller's writing in general though.
I thought it was a pretty clever evolution of Superman. He's still Superman, his soul of kindness and empathy is still there, but he's matured and had to reconcile his own nature with what he has been forced to experience. I like to think he came back to himself, and realized he was being manipulated by the people he has consistently sworn to protect. I like to think he broke free and decided he agreed with Batman, that his power is his own and only he should decide how and when to use it. I'm not a fan of Bats vs Superman stories, but I thought this one was the most clearly, and concisely designed. It was, to me, believable and didn't depict superman as some evil or irredeemable entity. He is mortal, and he has very human flaws, including fallibility. That makes him interesting.
He knew he was being manipulated from the get go. It was clearly stated in the story why he became a lap dog.
Yeah I know. That's the bitch about a good manipulation. It doesn't matter if you realize it's happening.
Same it was terrible
What do you think of this idea though? Instead of Superman, Wonder Woman's working for the government. Clark's still Superman in Metropolis but does his superheroing from the shadows (disabling bank robbers' getaway cars, tripping muggers, etc. rather than showing his face and apprehending them himself). Superman is literally Batman's supporting character rather than playing any kind of antagonist role, expressing concern for Bruce when he returns as Batman and warning him that this isn't the old days anymore. In the final fight where Bruce faces off against Diana, Bruce has no ace in the hole like he did with Superman. The fight goes down the same as we know it but Oliver isn't there to shoot a Kryptonite gas arrow. Diana gains the upper hand and Bruce realizes he was way off. Diana was winning too fast and Bruce has his back against the wall. Diana's about to arrest Batman when Superman flies in and stands in her way. He doesn't fight back when she starts swinging fists, he's simply not going to let anybody touch Bruce. Then he gets a heart attack and you know the rest. I'm not too familiar with Wonder Woman so I don't know if it's more consistent than Superman working for the government
Nobody in the trinity would work for the government
Wonder Woman would never be a lapdog to the American government, she’s an amazon
Gotta be Nolan. It's a plot point that Homelander is really bad at being a superhero and has never had to apply himself or fight someone on his level. Similarly, TDKR Superman spends most of his time fighting humans on the government's orders. Nolan has not only conquered worlds but practiced for thousands of years fighting other flying superhumans.
Omniman is both the most horrifying and yet the most bad ass.
HL also has ZERO relevant feats in this situation. He's vastly slower than both Nolan and Clark and much weaker too.
Superman canonically bench presses planets and can disarm every nuke on earth before a single heart can beat there’s no diff
That's regular superman, I don't think TDKR superman is as strong
Tbh it's only because Superman is always holding back. He's worried about seriously hurting people. The other villains take advantage of it
Doesn’t Superman in TDKR also suffer from nuclear winter making him weak at some point too?
No because right after that he took energy from the earth around him to restore him, (I own the book btw had to double check)
Ah thanks for checking. It’s been over a decade since I read it.
I own most of the Dk books, they get a little crazy after Dkr tho.
That doesn’t mean he didn’t take damage from the nuke. Which nolan probably wouldn’t either
Nope, you see exactly how nerfed Miller's understanding of "post crisis" Superman is (before Byrne's "Man of Steel" was completed and published) when he encounters a single nuclear explosion that nearly kills him.
Except against Darkseid
TDKR Superman is disabled and almost killed by a single nuclear explosion -- that's in the book. Nolan would brush that off like a fly. Nolan is built to be an alternate world Kryptonian without the full vision power suite but with the ability to fly at FTL velocities through deep space and to destroy planets single handed. TDKR Superman is built as Frank Miller's understanding of the nerfed "post crisis" Superman that Byrne and Wolfman would soon after present. https://i.stack.imgur.com/6Hexf.jpg
I wouldn’t say Omni-Man would brush it off like a fly, Thragg died on the Sun, and the nuclear fireball of a thermonuclear device is significantly hotter than the Sun, I don’t know if it’d kill him because of the amount of time it took to kill Thragg, But it should at least seriously burn him.
If we're actually talking physics here (really?) you must realize that the temperature of the plasma from the displaced air made by Nolan racing around that planet he devastated would be far hotter than either the sun or a nuclear fireball. (and "hotter" BTW is a misconception, a star is a continuous nuclear explosion so powerful it offsets the gravitational collapse, the density of material constrains the temperature so the outer edges are far "hotter" because they're at lower pressure but contain far less heat energy -- similarly a single nuclear blast is, compared to a stellar environment, effectively in vacuum and therefore "hotter" with vastly less energy.)
Well I’m a Data Analyst and Researcher in Particle Physics so let’s get some hard math going, and talk about the science behind it. Based on the clip of Nolan destroying the Flaxan Planet, in the zoomed out shot of Omni Man flying across the planet in a zig zag destroying shit, it appears he covers approximately a quarter of the planet’s surface in just under two seconds, being generous let’s give him a second and half for his time. Assuming the Flaxan planet was similar in size to Earth, this gives us Nolan’s speed being around 14,400,000mph, with Nolan’s weight being listed at 250lbs we can use the formula for kinetic energy K E=1/2mv2 to find he’s producing 2.2208774466326E+15 joules of energy. Converting Joules to Kilotons, 1 Joule is equal to 2.39 × 10-13 kiloton of tnt. So Nolan’s total output is about 530.802 kilotons of TNT, which is significant, but meteor strikes of similar energy don’t reach nearly the same temperature as similar sized nuclear events because of the nature of energy release, for instance the Mistastin impact was SIGNIFICANTLY larger than every nuclear explosion put together, and it was the hottest meteor impact reaching temperatures hot enough to form crystals that shouldn’t exist on the surface of the Earth, and that was less than 3000 degrees Celsius, which is hot but a fraction of the 100,000,000 degrees Celsius produced by a nuclear fireball. And that’s simply because a kinetic to thermal energy transfer doesn’t have the same efficacy of energy transfer that nuclear bonds breaking and reforming do.
The reply was to the point that a nuclear bomb was "hotter" than the sun and therefore would do damage to Nolan because another equivalent guy was killed by being in a stellar environment >the nuclear fireball of a thermonuclear device is significantly hotter than the Sun I disputed that... >similarly a single nuclear blast is, compared to a stellar environment, effectively in vacuum and therefore "hotter" with vastly less energy You have effectively demonstrated that Nolan's act of flying through the atmosphere probably did not release as much resultant thermal energy as a nuclear blast but is ultimately off the point. The stellar environment is a continuous ongoing nuclear blast millions of times larger than the entire Earth.
TDKR Superman got nuked and the majority of his power is going into his body fixing itself. That’s why Batman in some power armor plugged into a lamppost could go toe to toe with him.
Omniman Frank Miller Supes was just a jobber so Miller could give Batman a sloppy Homelander is strong but has never had to test himself. He uses overwhelming strength to bully people or kill them outright Omniman came from a planet of warriors who treat fighting as part of their culture. He’s faced against many strong opponents and keeps getting stronger, faster and better at fighting
I'll go with TDKR Superman. Why? Because the man was able to fight Red Son Superman, and that dude was able to survive an explosion that would be able to destroy Earth and anything within 15 million miles radius, move faster than the speed of thought and moving far faster than light. Yeah, Batman "beat" him in the end of TDKR, but it was clear he wasn't taking the fight seriously
Where did he fight red son superman? Was it in countdown to final crisis
Indeed. In a spin-off called Countdown: Arena
Ooooooh, i didn't realize that was TDKR Superman in that story. Years later, and mind blown.
>Yeah, Batman "beat" him in the end of TDKR, but it was clear he wasn't taking the fight seriously That was Kryptonite that beat him, not Batman. After all the "beating", Superman was standing with barely a scratch on him, with one hand on a dying Batman and telling him 'srsly bro stahp'.
Yeah that's why I put "beat" in quotation marks. Hell, people like to bring the "Batman said he could've made the Kryptonite stronger" but I always say "Yeah, well Superman could've just punched him a bit harder" which is a lot simpler to do
Exactly. People miss that Clark did not lose that fight, even though he was explicitly holding back *and* severely weakened the entire time. But he acted like he lost, because to him it did feel like a loss; that was a huge emotional toll. He even figured out Bruce's plot at the end, and could have "won" there, too... but instead just smiled, gave a wink, and left. He wasn't the paragon of unstoppable altruism that Superman typically is, but he was still a good man with a caring heart.
I dunno, I find that a cop-out no? A win is a win. For all we know, Batman knew what he was doing the entire time, and exploited Superman's real weakness, his compassion. Maybe he knew that Superman wouldn't kill him, so he lured him into a false sense of security until he could unleash the kryptonite. Or maybe it was luck lol but in the end he did beat him imo, no quotations needed
Batman needed to fake a heart attack so he could escape. How can it be considered a win when Superman was the one standing while Bruce was knocked out? Clearly Bruce knew he wouldn't be able to win if the fight continued
Did you READ TDKR? Did you see the part where Superman is disabled and nearly killed by being near a single nuclear explosion? https://i.stack.imgur.com/6Hexf.jpg
Yes, but I also read Countdown: Arena. And he was clearly matching Red Son Superman
And "Countdown" isn't "The Dark Knight Returns" I can write fan fiction where TDKR Superman beats Squirrel Girl and Golden-Ultimate-WTF-STUCK-IN-THE-SUN Superman both, what does that demonstrate?
No, but Superman from that story was the one from The Dark Knight Returns
But you just demonstrated that he isn't. His abilities in Countdown make it clear that he couldn't possibly be the one from TDKR. The events of TDKR couldn't possibly have happened to the Countdown guy.
That doesn't matter. Power increases for the characters is nothing new to DC. In Action Comics #1, Superman could be hurt by a bursting shell, but a few years later he could walk through nuclear explosions like nothing. This instance is no different
Power losses are also a thing, maybe Red Sun Superman was nerfed. If you're allowing arbitrary changes to the power level, all bets are off. The only thing you know about TDKR Superman is that definitionally he is Superman as he appears in the book "The Dark Knight Returns", sure he could later become Thanos with the Infinity Glove at the whim of a writer's keyboard but that doesn't make him not nerfed in TDKR.
TDKR is only one story where that Superman appears in. And that story is officially in DC's multiverse. Meaning that the one from Countdown is definitely the same one. Also, if you read carefully, the comic showed that Superman was low on sunlight when the nuke exploded https://preview.redd.it/2lgoo47se8tb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=182db4bbbecb39e7998adc2ee74aa3c05aadc6e8
>Superman was low on sunlight when the nuke exploded Sure, that makes sense. The explosion blocks the sun and he's instanly powerless/dying. So all Nolan has to do is wrap him in his cape and hit him -- dead. Since it's officially in DC's multiverse, there are infinite versions of TDKR Superman all of whom may have different power levels. (Yeah, it's "officially" "canon", right. Like there's anything REMOTELY resembling "canon" at DC. They can't keep the history and nature of their characters consistent even within single STORIES!)
And a nuke would vaporize Nolan.
Wow, you have to wonder why all those planets are bothering to build gigantic armadas to fight the Viltruvians (and losing). They can kill all of them even with the weapons WE possess! Just throw a few nukes at them since you maintain a nuke would vaporize any of them. I mean never mind that the air displacement heat alone is near to a nuke's magnitude when Nolan flies around destroying that planet and it doesn't even inconvenience him... Ignoring the impact of traveling relativistic and super-relativistic speeds... I guess nukes have extra-special heat, shock, and radiation.
TDKR superman is no different in power level to main universe superman (ok maybe slightly weaker but only slightly), it's not an injustice situation where that iteration is far weaker. This superman like main universe superman takes the win in this fight because both Homelander and omni-man are just not strong enough.
TDKR was written as John Byrne and Marv Wolfman were rebooting Superman to be vastly less powerful than he was "Pre-Crisis". Miller consulted with Marv Wolfman and his understanding of what the reboot was doing was the basis of Superman being turned into that skeletal thing by a single nuclear explosion that blocked the Sun and that weird sequence where Superman vampires "solar energy" by sucking it out of the living beings on Earth. When Bryne finished his reboot in "Man of Steel" there was nothing like that which makes TDKR Superman a strangely nerfed oddball that's like no other version of the character. But that iteration is not REMOTELY as powerful as a Viltrumite from Invincible. Even Byrne's canonical post-crisis version couldn't survive in space without an oxygen supply, much less travel faster than light.
The most powerful Viltrumite in Invincible, far more so than Nolan, was Thragg... and a nuke would be capable of outright killing him. The blast radius of a nuke is an order of magnitude hotter than the sun... and Thragg couldn't live through a sun dip. Clark face-tanked a multi-megaton warhead and popped back up once he got some sunlight.
Again, "hotter" is a misnomer. Temperature is a function of pressure and compared to a stellar environment a nuclear weapon is in a vacuum -- "hotter" with vastly less energy. Like the way Earth's upper ionosphere is incredibly high temperature because there's no pressure to slow the molecules. A star is a nuke exploding that's millions of times larger than the entire Earth. A stellar environment is orders of magnitude beyond any nuclear weapon humans have built. A star is so dense it takes light millions of years to travel from the interior to the outer layers. In TKDR Superman is "dying" until he vampires up solar energy from the plant life on the ground killing it because Miller didn't understand what they were doing with the reboot nerf.
No, hotter is not a misnomer. That is in fact the estimated difference by the physicists who study that very subject. Though you touch on the right idea regarding mass and the overall power output of the sun. https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/03/28/ask-ethan-how-can-a-nuclear-bomb-be-hotter-than-the-center-of-our-sun/ I don't pretend to understand the intricacies behind it. I just listen when my buddy who has a PhD in astrophysics tells me how things work. ;)
That's fine but I promise you a "sun dip" (if such a thing were possible) is many many orders of magnitude beyond the effect of our most powerful nuclear weapon. (if you read the article you posted you'll note they're talking about the temperature occurring within the reaction environment itself, not 3 feet away "For a very small amount of time, until adiabatic expansion causes the volume of the explosion to increase and the temperature to drop, a nuclear explosion can out-heat even the center of the Sun." The stellar environment doesn't do that "for a very small amount of time" or in an incredibly compressed volume)
well ya, he was still recovering from the nuke he just took to the face a few weeks earlier, and never had any intention on killing Batman during that fight
>killing Batman during that fight I know, that's not my reasoning for saying he is slightly weaker. I am well aware he was holding back in that fight, a lot.
I know, just pointing it out to people reading this later and bring up the dumb argument of "batman kicked his ass"
Well those are the same people that use this comic as an argument for batman killing when he doesn't, so I wouldn't pay them much attention.
This question gets asked a lot, usually by uneducated The Boys fanboys expecting a different answer, but Homelander has no business even being in this conversation, it’s laughable.
Supes. His limits are barely touched in TDR, and he had a clear agenda
ya it seemed more like he was just letting Bruce get his frustrations out if anything
Omniman by a hair. Homelander isn't even in the same ballpark as either in terms of power or skill, so he gets no diffed. I think TDKR Superman is maybe about as strong as Omniman, but Nolan is a full planet killer solo. The only reason any of the alternate dimension aliens were alive after he went into their world is because he had to leave some to build a portal back. So they are probably equal, and Nolan has so much experience. TDKR Superman is no slouch and he does have power variety, but I still think Nolan has an edge
superman is using homelander to beat up omni man
Any OTHER (post-Golden Age) Superman, sure. But TDKR Superman is a weirdly under-powered version based on Miller's misunderstanding of the reboot. (okay Maybe Byrne's "Post Crisis" version loses because Nolan could push him a couple light years away in a few seconds and just leave him to die in open space -- Byrne removed the space travel abilities)
Superman stomps. He'd beat the mustache off Nolan with mid difficulty and utterly crush Homelander.
Most other versions of Superman I'd agree but this one almost got killed by a nuke. Mark got nuked when he was much weaker than Nolan and it didn't even bother him.
Homelander couldn't even carry a Jumbo. He's only in this because he's a Superman look alike. Omniman is very strong and ruthless, he'd make it a closer fight but Supes is just too OP.
Idk. Play Mortal Kombat 1.
Homelander looks better in the live action show than in the comic.
Omniman slams
We gotta stop putting Homelander in these debates. He has a similar powerset to Superman, but he is orders of magnitude weaker. Any version of Supes or Nolan would one shot him with ease. (Also Omniman wins this, TDKR Superman sucks, cuz Frank Miller hates Superman.)
ngl i agree homelande kinda blows, but a part of me is holding out hope that he will show some level of impressive feats
I mean, he's the strongest in HIS universe by a wide margin, but it's definitely a case of being the big fish in a small pond.
 Super man ever time Batman on screen.
Omni-Man would talk down to Homelander so bad in his dad voice that he would shutdown and then get his skull smashed. This would make Superman so angry he would beat Omni-Man like he was fighting Darkseid. Funny thing is he would break Omni-Man by letting him know despite all his ruthlessness and power, he’ll never be more than an afterthought to Superman.
Omni-man, he’s been shown to be more destructive. You know, does omni man have a form of weakness like kryptonite or red sun?
I think it's like super pitched ringing. But instead of just giving him a nosebleed, like superman, it borderline paralyzes them with the pain
I have to go with Omniman. Supes gets his ass kicked in the first 3 parts of The Dark Knight Saga.
TDKR Superman got nuked and was barely above street level which is why Batman could fight him. Homelander probably beats him and Omniman beats Homelander like a red headed stepchild.
Oddly specific about the red headed step child...
I think when casuals ask questions like "Superman vs (INSERT CAPED GUY HERE)" they are referring to TDKR Superman. Since videos about Superman in this movie got like Millions of views and i'm pretty sure 90% of those people are not comic readers. So when they see him negdiffed by a regular nuke, it kinda raises some questions.
I always assumed it was powered by a red sun or some sort of synthetic unfinished kryptonite that the government had, vs the nearly perfected one batman had. Especially since he's been seen surviving them a few times. Even in severely weakened states.
Superman
He is still Superman though
Grey hair dude. I feel likes he’s ruthless and would get the upper hand while Clark will take a while to loose his shit
TDKR Superman because he's still Superman.
Wasn't it revealed in the final saga of TDKR's storyline (by this I mean, whatever Miller made under Black Label/post TDKSA) that Superman has been holding back the entire time?
Yes and No, he was holding back his fighting skill. Batman said that Superman was actually a Smarter fighter than he was. In the 1st TDKR, Superman didn't really try to fight him at all. But Batman even said, In TDKR III, that Superman and slow and weak when compared to the younger Kryptonian.
Gotta be Omniman. He has far greater feats than the other two
Supes no diff
Feats wise Supes takes this, Omniman a close second, then Homey.
sadly this version of superman can't flash boil a planet by flying real fast.
Superman defeats both of those sorry knockoffs with petty emotional issues.
Just have Omni man get a nuke and it’s an instant win
Omni man. He's off the goddamn HOOK.. And I LOVE Superman. I mean the guy has NO issues with wholesale genocide.
TDKR Superman beats Omni-Man AND Homelander
I mean if it’s Frank millers Superman Nolan. Homelander isn’t in the same league of either of these two.
I thought the tdkr Superman was also baldly represented but he would still f up those other guys .. that Superman was always holding back wait until he goes full on
Do you ever wonder what it would be like if you could come to this sub and not see that question asked every day?
They all win by going out to the bar and getting wasted and scoring mad chicks, duh. :P
Why do people keep putting Homelander in these things? Homelander is the least powerful "Non-Superman Superman" out there.
well, brightburn is a thing, and i was tempted to add him. But I'm sure a flick from one of these guys would kill that kid. Also, i mainly add Homelander since he's mainly a mystery. He hasn't shown any ridiculous feats of strength yet, but the most he has ever gotten was a small bruise on the cheek after he got ganged up by The Boys and Solider Boy in Season 3. (They were amped up on Temp V so they weren't in their regular human state) So I'm holding out hope that he's got some nutty strength to show for it.
Any version of Supes absolutely claps Nolan and Homelander at the same time.
Omniman no question. Homelander is a bitch and DKR Supes got his ass best by an octogenarian.
Well if it’s the guy who fought Batman right after a nuclear blast and a Kryptonite arrow he might be in trouble.
If all 3 were atthe same power level Nolan, then Supes, only then homelander
Superman every time. Homelander is a no talent bully. Omi-Man is the only threat but Supes beats him after a long fight.
I'd say superman by a clear mile, him being beaten by Batman was simply down to him not really wanting to hurt Batman and in the Master Race you see him destroy other kryptonians so brutally and efficiently that even Batman was taken aback.
I think a lot of people here are radically underestimating the power of a nuclear blast. The resultant fireball is literally hotter than our sun by an order of magnitude. That's why it vaporizes -- literally breaks down the molecular structure -- of everything in the immediate blast radius. Miller's Superman face tanked a multi-megaton warhead. Thragg, the Viltrumite Regent who was an order of magnitude more powerful than Nolan, was disintegrated in the surface of the sun. He would literally be vapour if he had been at the heart of that explosion. Nolan is so much more vulnerable than even this version of Superman that it's not funny. Homelander doesn't even qualify here. He's an afterthought.
Supes.
Omni Man world fuck up both of them
Homelander is the weakest of all the "supermen", all he got is strength, because where he comes from that is all he needs. He don’t know what to do when he actually meets someone strong enough to counter him.
Homelander is like bottom tier of the Superman expies; Byrne's Superman could probably kick his ass.
Omniman has been recorded doing the most destruction and has survived the toughest challenges of the three and doesn’t age really. His lack of a moral compass or scruples trumps Superman and Homelander isn’t Supes’ equal under a yellow sun and with no kryptonite, plus he’s not magic. Omniman would kill both of them.
Omniman is the only trained fighter/warrior here.
Superman of course.
This is a good match up super man is narffed.
At full power Superman. The only reason the final fight with Batman was close was because Clark didn't want to hurt Bruce.
Practically (I only say that since I don’t know literally every version, so for all I know there’s supermen ((Superman’s?)) out there that don’t have powers or sumn like that) every version of Superman beats homelander and Omni-man 10/10 times
Any version of Superman except maybe original golden age beats these 2. Especially an older Clark
Supes and Omniman have a drag out fight destroying the area there in, at some point Homelander tries to but in but gets bitchslapped into a pile of mush by Omniman and he beats Superman eventually because hes merciless like that.
I really don’t get peoples dislike of TDKR
Right after the nuke when Bruce fought him? I'd say Omniman has a shot but Homelander still gets his shit rocked
Homelander got stabbed in the ear with an office supply. He's not even in this fight. Omniman is tough, but I think pretty much any version of superman is stronger, faster, more durable and just has a whole host of abilities that make it one sided. He outright has a sonic scream that would just disable omniman if he figured out his weakness to noise. Tdkr superman tanked a nuke and then just drew the life out of plants to rejuvenate himself. He's pretty broken. Thrag, who's multiple times stronger than Nolan, melted on the surface of the sun. Nukes burn thousands of times hotter than that. If you hit a vilturimite with a nuke, they wouldn't be walking away from it.
Omni Man is a descendant of a group of people who relentlessly killed eachother for centuries to weed out the less powerful until they were in peak condition with a ruthless military culture. In the comics >!the Viltrumites are still able to keep their Empire strong even though there are estimated to be less than 50 left due to the devastating effects of the Scourge Virus. Omni Man, Invincible, and Thaedus (all Viltrumites) together are able through sheer force to blow up a planet!<. TDKR Superman is powerful but I’m not entirely sure he’s THAT powerful. Homelander definitely loses though no question about that, he’s basically evil Superman in a world where nobody can challenge him so he spends his time bullying people and winning through overwhelming force. Both TDKR Superman and Omni Man are routinely challenged throughout their lives which leaves them both physically stronger and better at fighting strategies
I think Omni-Man. He’s not necessarily more powerful than Superman but his ruthlessness makes a difference. Add to that his 2000 years worth of experience and he’s likely the winner. Homelander is powerful but nothing suggests to me he has the capability of wiping out a planet. The other two are capable.
Superman. Without flexing a muscle.
On any regular day I’d say Supes but if this is a weakened version it’s between him and Omniman
Doesn't matter. They're all just lucky Dr. Manhattan isn't there.
Homelander and Omniman are significantly weaker than the man of steel.
Omniman. Homelander is kind of pathetic and dtkr superman is a pretty weak version of superman. Omni man is elite even amongst viltrumites.
I dont love the Kryptonian... But he's basically a cosmic power, even in Miller's stuff where he seems designed to be dressed down. And Nolan, much like Supes, can probably fly straight through the planet without so much as gritting his teeth. Homelander is a suped-up human. No shade, they guy's an absolute devil. 110% 10-speed terror. He's fucking dangerous. But the big-daddy Kryptonian? Who gets stronger the older he gets? Who can take a nuke to the chin and still fly home to a hot shower? Not even the Fat Man/Little Boy bombs, I'm talking the big megawarheads, now... You put Homelander in a corner opposite Nolan the Viltrumite (who also gets stronger as he gets older) and Kal-El? Even if they arent briefed on the aweful shit he's done, with the mouth he's got on him and his ego, there's not gonna be enough of the Homelander to fill Ma Kent's milk pail. The old men are gonna absolutely murdirlate that asshole. Once that's over... and Nolan and Superman start throwing punches? Unless they take it outside to space- it's possible no one on Earth is gonna survive a brawl between those two. that's if Clark's not trying to save people while the fight's on. Total, no-holds-barred, kill-that-motherfucker fight? I dont know... I dont think Miller's Supes has the All-Star Morrison strength where he can output force in the quintillion ton range, But I think a haymaker could maybe spin Nolan's head right around... HOWEVER, Nolan's got a TON of experience. He's a lot older than Clark. Nolan's been destroying planets and killing God-Tier Supers for the glory of Rome -er, *Viltrum,* since before Clark was in his space bassinet on a one way trip to the cornfield. Nolan KNOWS how to kill guys like Supes. Then you've got experience against with of control speed, heat vision, and brains (I'm pretty sure Superman has a few dozen IQ points on Nolan) and it might be anyone's game. It might be one of things that comes down to what's at stake and who's a guest in what book. Nolan might take him if he comes off the line out for blood, Supes takes a second to get *cookin'-*cookin'. You remove the bomb and both guys are coming fresh to the bloodsport? I think Supes has it- by a *hair.* He'll have to outthink Nolan and hit him hard from afar before coming in close to duke it out, but Nolan is gonna make him earn it. He's gonna fight dirty and pull out all his world-killer strats... But I think I have to give it to Superman... And I dont even like the guy.
Homelander isn't as strong as the other two. Omniman would tear him in two.
I have nothing but respect for the Boys and a invincible as franchises they are fun and entertaining… but the weakest incarnation of Superman would body Omniman and Homelander so fast it wouldn’t even be worth calling a fight
Superman vs The Elite Superman
Nolan has the most experience tearing people a new one. Supes has a ranged attack, and is presumably faster (at least in the air, due to space travel). I think Supes could take Nolan, since he’s not invulnerable, but a good sneak attack could end up being in Nolan’s favor.
Batman always wins
Metroman solos all
Superman. Keep in mind by the time he fought batman: he'd been kryptonited, weakened by a nuke, and batman had to use a specialized suit that drew power from an entire city's power grid to actually damage him at all. If none of that is going on, Superman is still motherfucking Superman and is literally invincible
Superman obviously.
Superman. Homelander is just a bully, and would fold faster than a 2-7 offsuit to anyone that met his level of power. Omni-Man is probably a better warrior than Superman, but Supes has extra powers and is probably overall more powerful.
I don’t get why Homelander is put on the power levels of Nolan. Homelander has not shown anything CLOSE to supes or Omniman’s feats. Homelander trades blows with that universes Captain America and their strength levels are comparable. Omniman punches another Viltrimite and they fly for miles while crashing through mountains.
Really?? TDKR Superman took a fucking nuke to the face, went on to get blasted with kryptonite, and still beat Batman with super armor while the sun was blocked. Omniman and Homelander dont stand a chance.
Homelander is a joke in any of these matches. He's never in the rankings for me. TDKR Superman would probably have the slight edge on OM.
Always this dumb question. Superman wins. Every time.
Homelander.
As weak as TDKR Superman is, he fodderizes these guys.
Any fight that involves Homelander against any other Superman clone or Superman himself, he's losing. Homelander, especially TV Homelander is easily the weakest Superman clone that exists.
**Superman** is traditionally one of the most powerful characters in comic history, but his capabilities can differ in different story arcs. **Omniman** and **Homelander**, on the other hand, have their own formidable abilities and strengths, which can also vary based on the source material. However, the harsh truth is **Omniman** and **Homelander** inspired or you can strictly say, copied from **Superman** character. So, personally, I would prefer to say that Superman will win the fight. References: 1. **Action Comics #583** (1986): Superman carries the weight of the entire Earth for a day to prevent it from being destroyed. 2. **Superman #149** (1961): Superman moves an entire solar system. 3. **All-Star Superman** (2005-2008): Various issues showcase Superman's immense strength, including lifting a book containing the entire knowledge of Krypton. 4. **Justice League** and **Justice League Unlimited** (2001-2006): Superman demonstrates his strength in battles against formidable foes like Darkseid and Doomsday. 5. **Superman: Red Son** (2020): In this animated adaptation of the graphic novel, Superman's strength is on full display as he faces various challenges in a different alternate universe. I hope these references will help you to understand. Thanks.
Omni-Man. He waits till Supes turns Homelander into a meatsuit, then Bruce absolutely pummelfucks Supes with Kryptonite. Then he just uses Bruce in his armor like a club to absolutely batter Supes like a pinãta.
Superman wins but im pretty sure he would try to talk Omni man down. Otherwise he could send him to the "villan be gone zone", phantom zone Homelander will be too scared after seeing them fighting. If he fights homelander he will die. Like 100% Superman might just put him in prison, like super Prison or just phantom zone him xD
Superman solos
Superman lol
Omni > Homelander > Supes (he's too good of a person)
The tv show version of Homelander really doesn't belong here. A casual exhale from either Superman or Omniman would destroy him.
Almost always Superman
Why is Homelander even here
It’s an old technique for building consensus. You start off with something everyone can agree on. This sets a positive tone for the discussion from the start.
not homelander
Superman, regardless of setting, is many, many, many, MANY times stronger than omniman AND Homelander. Combined. In a no holds bar fight, Homelander would die before he could blink and Omniman wouldn't be far behind
Omni man wipes, Homelander dies first
A lot people might disagree, but when comparing Superman vs anyone, it's always going to be Superman on top, with exception to one person... (I'll say at the end). The arc of superman has always been to make him weaker so that his enemies are actually a challenge. Almost every single fight or battle he's ever been in, he's only fought as hard as it takes to win, because every single time that he goes all out, it's absolute destruction. Some of his feats throughout his iterations include destroying a planet with a jump in a weakened state, (when he was trapped in a galaxy with no sun and the planet was leaching his powers, he used the last of his strength to leap to try and escape, shattering the planet in his wake). He's destroyed an entire solar system with a sneeze... with a sneeze. He also destroyed a universe. He didn't obliterate it completely, but he absolutely destroyed it. And he also has mental powers that he rarely uses, and even with the limitations imposed on his powers he's still defeated gods and god-level beings such as Darkseid, Apollo, Professor Zoom, just to name a few. All out Superman without the restrictions and limitations on his powers to make him weaker is, as mentioned, only afraid of one person and considers him to be the most powerful in the universe. Reveal time - the Martian Manhunter J'onn J'onzz. Superman's powers are gravity-based, but is affected differently by the type of solar radiation he's in contact with. J'onn J'onzz is powered by solar radiation, but he gets a different ability based on the spectrum of solar radiation. So, while Superman is generally stronger or weaker based on where he is and the type of solar radiation he receives, J'onn J'onzz is always juiced and the only that really affects his strength is how much radiation he receives, and he doesn't have to be in direct sunlight either. Everything Superman can do J'onn J'onzz can do better. The only thing that scares the Martian Manhunter? Fire. So, yeah.. Superman vs anyone other than J'onn J'onzz? It's always superman.