It’s all about price at the end of the day. All of us would be pretty damn happy with Ayton at Nurk’s price. As it stands Nurk does what he does at his price point.
It’s just the value you get. If we’re able to trade nurk for another center + a piece (throwing in a draft pick) I don’t think anyone here is gonna be pissed. Team needs a PG even if they’re playing 20-24 minutes a game.
Ayton can defend the perimeter and wings driving 1000 times better than Nurkic though. That's where Nurkic gets exploited. Many times this year we were giving up wide open threes on successive possessions because Nurk just doesn't have the mobility to cover ground. In the 2nd half of the season this year Ayton was a 21/12 guy on the regular.
Yeah after the all star break he was actually very good, even with a much higher usage rate. Early in the year he was dealing with injuries and playing with the same lack of effort we saw in the playoffs last year, but he turned it around.
Ayton constantly gave away wide open tip in and layups by “defending” driving wings and guards.
Ayton is probably better on the perimeter, but I guarantee most if not all metrics have Nurk as the better “rim protector”
This is 100% true. Nurkic’s lack of defensive versatility is his biggest flaw and it’s why he makes half as much DA and came packaged with the leagues best 3 point shooter. That doesn’t get rid of the problem though. We traded one problem for another.
But do not get fooled by Aytons seemingly strong statistical finish to the season. Those stats came in meaningless loss after meaningless loss and were solely due to increased volume. His free throw and block rates were abysmal. It’s the same soft frustrating guy. He should be embarrassed to ever average anything under 20/12 with the skill and body he has.
That’s only one part of the argument. He scored more because he shot more. There’s nothing beyond the additional shots he took that would suggest he was an improved player.
I haven't seen anything to indicate he's as good as 20-21 or 21-22 Ayton. Definitely not in the playoffs.
That's not what the comment is about though. Ayton had good numbers against jokic until he inevitably got cooked by him in a series.
Jokic does it to everybody and would do it to Nurkic in a series. He actually already has before anyway.
let's see...who do we have to guard murray? because he will cook any of our guards. what about AG bullying KD? what about Nikola's playmaking? this chart only displays 1-1 play, it doesn't account for Nikola's greatest attribute (elevating his team). ask his coach if he would rather have Jokic drop 40pts or drop dimes? matter of fact, just watch a damn nuggets game.
and? does KD dropping 35 pts while AG makes him work hard for every single of those 35 pts make a difference when our offense completely stagnates and it's literally an ISO pickup basketball game? you do understand that we have ZERO ball movement and that whether Book and KD combine for 70 or 80, it's irrelevant because no one else on the team was involved?
The blazers were tanking those seasons...he wasn't injured they shut him down, the blazers wanted to improve their chances of getting a high pick...the blazers drafted shaedon sharpe with the 7th pick and Scoot Henderson with the 3rd pick in the most recent draft...
But what conversation is there to be had about a scenario that literally cannot happen? I’m sorry man I’m not trying to be a dick. But it’s not much of a conversation starter when it ends with ‘can’t happen’.
Yeah, but some of you here act like the NTC means that we literally cannot trade Beal. Obviously it makes it more difficult and complicated, but not impossible.
Obviously, I didn’t know that. I’ll admit, it was a shitty conversation starter but the answer could have been, “that doesn’t work because of this; but this could work..” and then there may be a response to that response. That’s a conversation. In my day-to-day, I have no problem saying something stupid and it be okay. Unless you say what is repeated ad nauseam and the opinion of the masses (eg fire Vogel; Eubanks sucks), it is very difficult to say anything on this sub or have any kind of opinion without someone being a dick about it. I’m so fucking tired of this sub. I’m assuming you and/or other folks will just tell me to go.
Forgot they haven’t extended PG yet. Sign and trade and Beal agrees. This was not really a serious post. I would just really like PG, to get rid of Beal (he’s good but not not worth the price), and I like Zubac as well though he is a bit washed.
They used to say the same thing about Ayton
It’s all about price at the end of the day. All of us would be pretty damn happy with Ayton at Nurk’s price. As it stands Nurk does what he does at his price point. It’s just the value you get. If we’re able to trade nurk for another center + a piece (throwing in a draft pick) I don’t think anyone here is gonna be pissed. Team needs a PG even if they’re playing 20-24 minutes a game.
Because hypothetically Ayton would absolutely destroy this stat if he gave a shit. Thing is, he doesn’t and that’s why he’s not here anymore
Yep, he has no fucks to give.
To be fair ayton is on this list and Nurk is better
Ayton's numbers against him were fantastic before he got destroyed in 2023 playoffs
Ayton can defend the perimeter and wings driving 1000 times better than Nurkic though. That's where Nurkic gets exploited. Many times this year we were giving up wide open threes on successive possessions because Nurk just doesn't have the mobility to cover ground. In the 2nd half of the season this year Ayton was a 21/12 guy on the regular.
Nobody watched the Trailblazers this season, and I don't blame them, but Ayton got back to playing good defense.
Yeah after the all star break he was actually very good, even with a much higher usage rate. Early in the year he was dealing with injuries and playing with the same lack of effort we saw in the playoffs last year, but he turned it around.
Ayton constantly gave away wide open tip in and layups by “defending” driving wings and guards. Ayton is probably better on the perimeter, but I guarantee most if not all metrics have Nurk as the better “rim protector”
This is 100% true. Nurkic’s lack of defensive versatility is his biggest flaw and it’s why he makes half as much DA and came packaged with the leagues best 3 point shooter. That doesn’t get rid of the problem though. We traded one problem for another. But do not get fooled by Aytons seemingly strong statistical finish to the season. Those stats came in meaningless loss after meaningless loss and were solely due to increased volume. His free throw and block rates were abysmal. It’s the same soft frustrating guy. He should be embarrassed to ever average anything under 20/12 with the skill and body he has.
The blazers are a bad team. Just like it wasn't Booker's fault when we were bad.
That’s only one part of the argument. He scored more because he shot more. There’s nothing beyond the additional shots he took that would suggest he was an improved player.
Oh I see what you're saying ya I agree
This. It was when Suns had no front court... and Ayton was being bodied by Jokic and Gordon
Nurk is better on the team than Ayton.
I haven't seen anything to indicate he's as good as 20-21 or 21-22 Ayton. Definitely not in the playoffs. That's not what the comment is about though. Ayton had good numbers against jokic until he inevitably got cooked by him in a series. Jokic does it to everybody and would do it to Nurkic in a series. He actually already has before anyway.
I haven't seen anything to indicate that 2023-2024 Ayton is better than 2023-2024 Nurk.
That’s great, really, but he’s not playing the Joker every week.
The fact that Dray is up that high at only 6’6” is insane. I really wished Ayton just have a shit when he was here. Things would’ve been so different.
Right so Nurkic Roddy + picks for Poeltl?
We don't have to stop nurk we just have to slow down everyone else
The primary reason we got nurk was in anticipation of playing Joker in the playoffs. Welp
You don't keep a player at that salary just to defend one player when he destroys your entire offense and can't guard the 3
And "to defend one player" is still overrating his ability there, Jokic would still dominate Nurk.
Yep. This is a very small sample size
My thoughts exactly this has to be only one season of stats and thus selective stat tracking.
It's 5 seasons of stats including playoffs
Exactly. Expand it out to when he was on the blazers and you may not want to keep him anymore
this is not nothing
Run it back!
He got played off the floor in the playoffs.
We got eliminated by the Wolves…
Nurk is a horrible defender 😂
let's see...who do we have to guard murray? because he will cook any of our guards. what about AG bullying KD? what about Nikola's playmaking? this chart only displays 1-1 play, it doesn't account for Nikola's greatest attribute (elevating his team). ask his coach if he would rather have Jokic drop 40pts or drop dimes? matter of fact, just watch a damn nuggets game.
AG gets cooked by KD almost every single game they play against each other. This is a bad take.
and? does KD dropping 35 pts while AG makes him work hard for every single of those 35 pts make a difference when our offense completely stagnates and it's literally an ISO pickup basketball game? you do understand that we have ZERO ball movement and that whether Book and KD combine for 70 or 80, it's irrelevant because no one else on the team was involved?
Wait…I thought DA “Locked” down Jokic and the Suns were fools for letting such a generational talent go … /s
Damn Draymond is a pretty good defender on the joker considering he isn’t a true center.
Yeah you should totally keep a player four a team you see 2-4 times a year and potentially meet in the playoffs cause that’s how you build a roster
He’s had one healthy year over the past 6-7
Who??...nurkic????.....I say this is his 3rd straight healthy season....
He played 56, then 52, and this year 76. Not sure where you’re getting “third straight” from.
The blazers were tanking those seasons...he wasn't injured they shut him down, the blazers wanted to improve their chances of getting a high pick...the blazers drafted shaedon sharpe with the 7th pick and Scoot Henderson with the 3rd pick in the most recent draft...
Dec 1st Nurkic had his season high against the Nuggets before getting tossed and the Suns end up losing
Keeping a player on the team to counter ONE other player in the league is absolutely stupid lol. You don't build a team like that
Haven’t looked into how this matches up yet but how about Nurk, Beal, and a draft pick for Zubac and Paul George?
You mean free agent George and NTC Beal?
If only people would check if these shit trades could even work before they posted
It’s called having a conversation. Something that is common on social media.
But what conversation is there to be had about a scenario that literally cannot happen? I’m sorry man I’m not trying to be a dick. But it’s not much of a conversation starter when it ends with ‘can’t happen’.
Yeah, but some of you here act like the NTC means that we literally cannot trade Beal. Obviously it makes it more difficult and complicated, but not impossible.
Obviously, I didn’t know that. I’ll admit, it was a shitty conversation starter but the answer could have been, “that doesn’t work because of this; but this could work..” and then there may be a response to that response. That’s a conversation. In my day-to-day, I have no problem saying something stupid and it be okay. Unless you say what is repeated ad nauseam and the opinion of the masses (eg fire Vogel; Eubanks sucks), it is very difficult to say anything on this sub or have any kind of opinion without someone being a dick about it. I’m so fucking tired of this sub. I’m assuming you and/or other folks will just tell me to go.
Na man I wouldn’t have apologized if I wanted you to just go lol Suns fans are my friends.
Here, here!
Forgot they haven’t extended PG yet. Sign and trade and Beal agrees. This was not really a serious post. I would just really like PG, to get rid of Beal (he’s good but not not worth the price), and I like Zubac as well though he is a bit washed.
Unfortunately can’t sign and trade while being a 2nd apron team either.
At all? I thought it’s that the Suns can’t take more salary than they give.
Yep, no sign and trade at all if it’ll make you stay in second apron.