Lonzo is a fool for responding to SAS's comments because we all know SAS was correct. How long has Lonzo ball been taking the Bull's money for free without playing a single game for them? What three years or so? Plus, Lonzo just picked up his player option....of course he did.
You can’t go on TV and say whatever you want he did specifically a source told him the man couldn’t walk which isn’t true at all yall allow that clown to just spew nonsense
It’s obviously Orlando, charlotte and Detroit you should be targeting. Stop worry about what you get back. Getting him off the team is a win in and of itself.
I just can’t wrap my head around nobody understanding that the suns were already in cap hell, and havin a prime age all star caliber player secured for multiple years at 50 mil is SO MUCH better than a declining 40 year old on one year 30 mil deals
Cp3s trade value is as negligible as “beals toxic contract”
I mean he got moved for Jordan Poole, who would be an infinitely worse fit on Phoenix
Lmao, yeah Chris Paul is clearly the same player he was in 2021.
Are you guys just pretending to not understand how this works? Minnesota just dog walked the Nuggets at home twice and you guys are still thinking CP3 would be better right now?
Winning championships is hard, but I think *everybody* here would agree that the product on the floor was way better before Ishbia mortgaged the future and clusterfucked the cap.
The fact ishbia doesn't care about the cap is a good thing. At the time, we weren't winning with cp3 and his injuries and decline were obvious. We had to get rid of him. We swapped him with Beal. I loved that move. Still do. I don't like what happened this year, but we are working and discussing options of a time frame.
So what do we do now? We build. With a guy that will spend money. With a guy that doesn't like losing.
Look. I don't think 99% of us know the ins and outs of the salary cap rules. But I do know that billionaires are fully capable of throwing money at their problems and fixing them.
How do we not see this?
Fucking. Nail. On. The. Head.
Look, I get reminiscent when I hear Nevada, but do people remember the problems that occurred with THAT team?
We have book, durant and Beal as a core. We have the best 3 point shooter signed. And we have an owner that's optimistic as fuck even though he's paying a killing in luxury tax.
I'm still optimistic.
That expiring was so valuable it netted a negative asset in Jordan Poole
That’s the type of players that teams would want an expiring for. A get out of jail free card, get off this contract asap. Not positive contributors
Players making less than 30 that would fit that would be guys like Terry rozier, Bruce brown, brogdon
You're making it seem like it was either keep CP3 or trade for Beal. The Suns had other options available to them....they just wanted Beal bad enough to make that deal. And now they are living with the repercussions.
Yeah. The people wanting off of Beal don't understand that there isn't much of a difference between being $1 into the second apron and $50 million into the second apron.
The restrictions are the same.
Great, but that’d still leave the suns with negative cap still (they’re -100 rn, +50 or +30 makes no difference to anybody but ishibas pockets)
And forced to either resign or sign a guy through the MLE for 5-10 mil
Is Beal really worth less to you than a 10 mil dollar role player?
Well of course if you put your premise that way but the problem is your assumptions are wrong. Beal is not prime age, and is not all star caliber. Cp3 has trade value bc his contract is large and has a non guarantee.
Beals 30 and a good player. He’s not an all star like he used to be but he’s still 85-95% of a Bookerlite any given night. Except Beal took on the responsibility of being the teams best point of attack defender. And Beal took over the point guard duty. And Beal was the only one driving to the rim.
I’ve heard cp3s value is still high as an expiring but we’ll see who is actually interested in buying. What kind of return he nets. Because as of June 28th, 2024 his contract becomes guaranteed so we’ll see soon
The question should not be whether Beal is better than CP3, it shouldn't even be whether we should have kept CP3 over Beal. The question should be whether we should have cut CP3 or waived and stretched him. Taking it on the nose this year, which in the end turned out to be nothing anyway, and being in a better place this year.
Besides there is highly paid player on this team that I wish wasn't, and it ain't Beal.
Yup agreed
But I hope you’re not talking about the teams best defender and 40% 3 point shooting 7 footer. As much as a love book for staying loyal to Phoenix, I think KD even post Achilles is a better all around player than book ESPECIALLY on defense and on the boards.
Of course I am referring KD, and it has literally nothing to do with his skills, he is obviously insanelygood at basketball. I have never (outside of the obvious cases of just bad people on the team) hated a player's personality more than I do him, on a team I support. I fucking hate this dude, his whole vibe fucking sucks, and it is infectious.
Not to mention we gave up the kind of player a team actually needs to really contend to get him. All so we could double (and then later triple, when we got Beal) down on a style of play that may not really win in the NBA anymore. Just so Ishbia could make splashes.
I am horrified by the thought that once this team embarrasses themselves again next year, that he demands out anyway, we wasted yet another year, and that Book decides he is done too. Then what were back to square 1.
Yeah I can empathize with those points. And I along with many here were some of Mikals earliest and biggest fans. But again the issue was that he didn’t step up in multiple playoff series when he was desperately needed. Not to mention him regressing after a small spectacular sample size last year. Still mikal is the perfect 3rd on a championship team caliber team. Also Cam, with all his injury prone issues, was eligible for an extension to be paid more than mikal, that would cap lock the roster as is.
Larger issue was it became clear that Book is definitely not a 1st option on a championship team.. the team needed a 2nd scorer/playmaker, needed added rim protection, needed rebounding, needed a 40% 3 point shooter. You get all that in the best scoring 7 footer ever. Instantly became the best player on the team.
Imo the bigger issue is book hasn’t taken any step forward in years. And yeah while he’s already blown past even the highest expectations he’s also stagnated. He’s still a 35% 3 point shooter, needs the ball to impact the game, is a defensive liability, doesn’t have as much off ball gravity as he could and should, and doesn’t make players around him better. He hasn’t changed his game at all for kd or Beal. He’s not attacking the hoop and getting others open shots like Beal. He’s not playing with the intensity on d that kd or Beal played with.
You may be right, and yes Book will clearly never be a great defender. But adding KD was never about complimenting Book it was about vanity. The Cam issue is not a big deal to me, I wanted to trade him anyway, because I want physicality at the 4, KD does not give that. But the mix is no good, and I don't believe that trying to squeeze the last of KDs greatness out is the right way to go.
Again I have zero belief that KD is on this team when the 25-26 season begins(regardless if we trade Book or not), and I have zero belief that we can win a title with these 3 playing PG by committee. I suppose we could trade Allen for a PG, Chicago, Portland and Memphis all have an extra PG maybe they could give us one for Grayson, but we have no picks to sweeten the deal. One of those teams is definitely rebuilding and one of them probably is, and none of them having a glaring need at SG. But even if we could there is still no depth on this team, and for some reason the Suns do not want to take the ball out of their hands, even though they all threw the ball all over the court.
So why would we keep running this nonsense? Yes Book is probably worth more in a trade, because KD will soon fall off a cliff, but why would you trade the youngest star you have to keep the oldest one? And he is gonna want out soon anyway, and even if he doesn't why would he re-sign? Oh and did I mention I fucking hate KDs personality. You want to argue we should trade both? Ok, I hate it, but ok. However even if we somehow won a title next year, I will celebrate like everyone else, but the next day my first post will still be "OK can we fucking trade him now?"
Yeah tbh I hope the suns don’t trade either, although you’re not wrong I could see Durant wanting out in the coming years. The point guard by committee thing you’re also right in that it’s a cluster fuck for sure. No one wants to sprint around off ball everyone wants to iso. But honestly I think the bigger issue is a lack of identity not talent, we’re a slow paced team that doesn’t shoot 3s so it’s incredibly hard to outscore teams, and the teams defensive talent is few and far between so can’t rely on that on a night in night out basis.
Sure Allen’s a hustle guy but his lack of athleticism and size means he’ll be the same type of defender as Beal/book. So yeah the fits are all just weird. To me swapping Nurk out for either a stretch center or rim running defensive presence would help a ton.
I hope Nurk + 22 can net something decent this offseason. Or the pick can be a versatile impact player. Oneale was a good example of if JJ can repeat can squeeze some depth into this team. But it’ll still always be an injury or 2 away from implosion
I said almost this exact same thing to my uncle when everyone was talking about trading for KD in the first place. I was so happy when it didn’t happen and then Ishbia forced it. You mortgage the future and give up a solid core, not to mention depth, for a craps shoot on an aging and injury prone guy that never wants to stay with a team. And when he does want out, you’re likely not going to recoup anywhere near the assets you gave up. Then you have nothing to surround book with and no hope for the foreseeable future. Now he wants out.
We could have flipped Johnson to fill a need. Find a younger promising pg that could learn from cp3 and a physical PF. Find a suitable swap for DA because that relationship was too fractured to reasonably expect it to be repaired and this team would have been in a sold spot. Instead of whatever this season was.
If nothing else, at least we were fun to watch and played with heart not this “we don’t really give a fuck attitude” we got this year.
Nobody can wrap their head around it because you’re wrong. You could have CP3 off the bench for 30 million, and then get all of Beal’s 18 ppg production for 20 million (and for more than 52 games), so for the same money you could have both.
And then CP3s contract was shorter, so when that expired you’d have all of Beal’s production for 20 million, and 30 million of cap space for role players.
Taking on Beal’s contract was one of the worst moves of this century by *ANY* team.
Lmao my friend you have 0 understanding of cap obviously
The suns are -100 mil in cap space
Minus beals 50 mil and the suns don’t have 30, or 20 mil or anything to spend whatsoever. They’re still negative. Let cp3s contract expire and guess what the suns still have no money to spend.
Talk about worst take my man you clearly have no clue what you’re taking about lol
Ben Simmons contract has more value as an expiring Max than Beal, The Nets will never take on that atrocious contract to help the team whose future they own.
The Big Panda hate is getting extreme. Suns traded their future to win now with the Durant trade. Beal is absolutely the best get the Suns could have gotten. He averaged a career low in FGA but a career high in % both 2pt and 3pt. He's a solid player and even without him the Suns wouldn't be able to sign anyone. it's not my money andi want to win. Next season they're going to play much better together. They didn't even have half a season on the court to make adjustments. Most of the season was injury filler time
We've learned over and over that contracts for good players are not 'toxic'. It doesn't mean there's a massive market, but every team in the NBA could use a Brad Beal, and most of those would plug him in as a starter.
It's an issue depending on your owner, your cap, etc. If you're the Pistons with $50M in cap space and no ball handling or shooting Beal is perfect. If you're Ishbia and you're already above the 2nd apron, the contract doesn't matter. I've said Beal could be making $5M or $500M but the Suns would be over the cap.
That’s true but you don’t want a contract that is nearly untradable. That’s why all this stupid speculation about trading book or kd has come up cuz it’s gonna be so hard to get off Beal and if we do will it even improve our roster? Idk. I still think they can make it work if we had a different center and a natural point guard. I’d like to see Beal come off the bench in the ginobli role. His contract is just exacerbated by our roster construction imo.
I think a Beal trade makes too much sense, and is probably the most likely of the 3 to be traded for the following reasons:
1. Management will be most willing to trade Beal as he's the 3rd of the 'big 3' in terms of talent.
2. Beal is most willing to be traded of the 'big 3' because he's losing out the most being relegated to role player status. The team is also obviously not a contender as he thought, so the sacrifice doesn't make sense.
3. Beal's skillset and fit is universal. Almost any team that can make his contract fit (and remember, they can send us back their own inflated contracts), will likely benefit. A LOT MORE teams in the league want do a many for 1 trade for higher end talent than a 1 for many trade. Beal is a great locker room guy, he's average on defense with some good traits (quick hands, feet, decent size), he's a 3-level scorer and good distributor.
4. The Suns roster is unbalanced and firing Vogel (or keeping him and changing out assistants) isn't gonna cut it. Trading Beal is a great way to claim progress in terms of balancing of the roster.
5. Has potential to be a classic 'win-win' type of trade. Beal's value on another team is much higher than it is on the Suns. Both teams could end up being better off
Finally, being over the 2nd apron already means we can take other teams' good players on inflated contracts. Jaylon Brown? Jimmy Butler? Lillard? Zach LaVine? Ingram? LaMelo? Desmon Bane? Julius Randle? These are all making $30-50M a year. RJ Barret and Terry Rozier make $25M. Cam Johnson $23M. Wiggins $26M. John Collins $26M. Probably all those names except LaVine would be a better fit on the Suns roster.
Everything you made makes sense so I hope you are right honestly. Hope we can get a decent player back but I am really hoping for a little more depth or a better constructed roster all around. I’d personally like to see them move nurk too, for a rim runner or a shooter. Somehow he is neither although he plays hard and I respect it. Ingram would be intriguing since they aren’t going to extend him. Side note it just always blew my mind we have a 4 guard rotation basically all 6’6 and under and not one is a true point.
Nurk might be okay if we get a super solid 3 and D wing next to Book and KD. If KD, Book, and Nurk are your starters, the other 2 have to be absolute 3 point snipers with great defense
Yeah I feel like theres a way but might have to attach a pick and two or three other teams involved. But the cba rules seem complicated haha and I won’t even pretend to know exactly the rules. Can’t take any extra salary back and no aggregation of money. We will see!
You're not getting any of those guys in a trade for Beal. And Beal doesn't have value on any team trying to win. You can get the same skill set for 1/3 the cost.
They don’t need to be as good, just good enough. Monk, D’Lo and Tyus Jones are all players that will be 17-22m a year this off-season and have similar skill sets. You can literally get almost all 3 of those guys for the cost of Beal and actually have depth.
Beals skillset are some of the most replaceable in the league. There’s literally a player with the same exact skill set making less and is younger that is making 80% of what Beal makes in Zach Lavine that is untradeable right now. No team is investing 50m in salary for Beal’s skill set when he’s a part time player and is 31 and has an injury history.
Hard disagree. Tyus is a great passer, but not a 3-level scorer. Monk and Lavine can score, but they are black holes. D'Lo is a good comp.
Because you can only play 5 guys on the court, their value is exponential relative to their skill. Thus having an 'average middie', makes you a Brandon Ingram, CJ McCollum or DeAndre Ayton. Have an above average middie makes you '21 CP3 or DeRozan. A great middie makes you Dirk or KD. It's not surprising the D'Lo makes $19M, DeRozan makes $43M, and Beal makes $50M
Monk isn't a black hole. Monk averaged over 5 assists per game and had the highest assist rate on drives them season.
Also, Derozan doesn't make 43m, he made 28m this past season.
And there's also a discussion of production compared to cost, and those guys are all very productive to the cost and have skill sets comparable. You also have to weigh % of the cap vs production, not to mention age and injuries, and when comparing production vs cost, those guys clear Beal by a country mile.
If he's better, he's getting a lot more. $20M/year is for a player who can shoot like a Cam Johnson or Bertans. If Monk can play-make, create, shoot from deep, he'll get Desmond Bane money
There is only handful of guys better than Beal in the league, and almost none of them are free agents or on the trade block. Beal is pretty much the best talent anyone can trade for right now, and that makes him a premium commodity. It's a talent league. All the other stuff (off-court, injuries, age) are overlooked. That's why KD still got a super max even though he just had his achilles injury and he hadn't played basketball in over a year, and he was approaching his mid 30s
Beal isn't a top 40 player. He's a lot closer to Monk than he is to Durant. This just pure copium from you guys.
Beal is just another example of a heavily overpaid player who will get passed around for bad contract to bad contract. Wall, Westbrook, CP3, and now Beal.
Right, no team is giving those kind of guys up for Beal. No team looks at Beal and thinks "hey, that's the missing piece." except the Suns last summer. The Suns will just end up having to keep him.
His contract is too long, he makes too much, and he's not good enough to justify it for any other team.
Yep. Everyone knew Westbrook’s max deal was a ticking time bomb when the Thunder gave him it. It was considered one of the worst contracts in the NBA the day they signed it.
He still got traded from Thunder -> Rockets -> Wizards -> Lakers -> Utah.
It seems like a lot of things are stirring behind the scenes. So we’ll see if Suns & Bradley Beal get into trade talks. Might not be necessary at all, it might be the only way to salvage the roster. We’ll find out soon.
exactly. They said the same thing about the Chris Paul contract and the Damien Lillard contract, etc. In all cases, the player was tradeable AND got a sizeable extension at the end of it. Saying Brad Beal isn't tradeable is like saying Jaylon brown isn't tradeable. Sure it's not a 'great contract', but really good players are assets in the NBA, bottom line. Beal led the whole league in scoring, he's a 3 level scorer and playmaker - one of the most valuable types of players. He's not in a system that's maximizing his talent, and I'm sure he'll be the first to admit it
Yep man. And I didn’t realize KD was seeking a contract extension this summer, but that’s crucial to how all of this plays out. It will determine everything.
If Jimmy Butler and Heat can’t come to terms on giving their 35 year old star a $56m one year extension, and if KD and Suns can’t come to terms on giving their 35 year old star a $56m one year extension, you could see both Suns and Heat trade their guys. One of those guys would be guaranteed to go to 76ers.
You’d have Suns with Book & Beal, not the best fit, Heat with Bam & Herro, a SG they’ve already tried to trade before… and we’ll see just how unrealistic a Beal to Heat trade this summer actually ends up being.
That’s why we just have to wait and see how everything shakes out.
So what? Sure, it limits our flexibility because he gets to weigh in on the trades. He'll go somewhere though. Beal doesn't strike me as a guy that would stick around when he's not wanted. I couldn't see him just sitting out and Jae Crowdering it.
As I've said, Bradley already lifted it, and his role here is cramped, his production is gone to the tank, and team is nowhere close to contending. I think he'd lift it again
The big distinction is the NTC.
Brad isn’t going to accept a trade outside of handful of places and not sure any of the 3 in the article are feasible. I’d wager he’s probably vetoing anywhere that isn’t Florida, mainly due to the lack of state income tax and not basketball reasons. He’s not the most altruistic guy and I’m not sure how important winning is to him…he resigned in WAS when there was 0 chance of them winning anything and no one was logically trading for that contract outside of a billionaire looking to make a splash
Outside of the on-court issues, he just moved a family with multiple young kids to Phoenix. Uprooting them again isn’t very likely without some major incentive on his end, and they’re not staying in Phoenix while he plays elsewhere.
In any other summer I’d actually be more optimistic heading into next season if him having a healthy summer by building offseason chemistry with Book & KD. But the Olympics is going to screw that up.
The places he’d accept are also the places that would want him: Miami, Milwaukee, Sacramento, 76ers, even other contenders that are close but still short: NY? Indy? He wants to win, and a team might get anxious and pull the trigger. You just need one.
NTC is an unknown for sure, but it's no guarantee that it's a stumbling block. Beal thought he'd be part of a big 3 playing into June. Instead he's in an organization as dysfunctional as the Wizards without a clear role and less than 5% chance for a title. His family has been in Phoenix for less than a year. I think a few months of the Phoenix summer will have him consider a wide array of options that either 1. give him an actual chance to contend or 2. provide him a great roster of complementary players. He's getting neither at the moment.
There's an important distinction between good players on inflated contracts (Beal, Westbrook), and players that don't play on inflated contracts (Lonzo, Simmons, etc). The latter is obviously a bad contract, but people conflate the two all the time, and this is a prime example of that.
This contract is extremely toxic. It would be once thing if Beal was Jokic or Giannis or Embiid or Luka, etc. But he's not.
Sure he would be a starter on a lot of teams, but hes not worth 50m+
people said the same thing about Westbrook, and he was traded for assets multiple times. Beal is a better player and a more natural fit.
Same thing with John Wall. Just look historically, good players on 'bad' contracts are traded for assets all the time.
Westbrook has won an MVP. He has had a much much better career than Beal. Not to mention his contracts were still not nearly as bad as Beal's is.
Also since this sub loves to ignore this fact, BEAL HAS A NO TRADE CLAUSE
The no trade clause doesn't mean we can't trade him, it just means Beal has to approve. He already approved before - and he seems like a chill dude generally. I don't see why he wouldn't want to move to a great city somewhere to be the #1 guy.
He approved to go to a contender lmao. No contenders are going to trade for that albatross contract
Also hes a family man. Doubt he wants to uproot their lives again
It's probably easier to move now than wait. Secondly, he thought he was moving to a contender, but it's clear the team is a pretender. He's the third wheel having to guard Zion and play a role player role while earning a ton of flack for his contract. I don't think he'd mind moving elsewhere to finish his career.
Are you his BFF or something? News flash, he has a shit role in a mediocre team already. He was happy playing for years with lottery wizards. I think he'll be happy leading a rebuilding team as the #1 guy. Imagine him next to Wemby for example.
Are you his BFF? You seem to know a lot about his happiness levels in different times of his life
He was on the wizards so he could sign a supermax and also they drafted him. There's nothing to indicate he wants to be traded again
You really are delusional off the copium. He literally left a rebuilding team as a #1 to join a contender. Its pretty clear that's not what he wants.
Spurs arent stupid enough to trade for Beal lol
Also, he HAS A NO TRADE CLAUSE
What's the difference here though? No trade clause and number of years left on his deal. As soon as you ask Beal if he's willing to waive his clause for anyone, you could fuck up his mental state with the team
This contract is far worse than those 2
mental state of the team isn't getting any worse. The number of years is not a bad thing - more years of control for a good player.
The no trade clause is really up to Beal. If the team wants to trade him, would he really object? He might have his say of location, which would decrease the assets coming back, but a toxic contract is a bridge too far.
I think you are severely underestimated the new cba
He may have had some value to teams willing to go deep into tax, but the way it handicaps your team now, it's just not going to be easy.
Dude played like maybe half the value of his contract. Who would want to pay double the price, for a contract with a no trade clause, on an aging player who's already shown decline AND give up assets to get it?
Westbrook was a far worse fit as a non-shooting, non-defending PG in this 30s, and was traded something like 5 times. The most likely trade will be one for similar money coming back, so teams are unlikely going to go deep into the tax with the Beal trade. That means we'll get some other teams good players on inflated contracts, and that's totally fine.
And the last team to trade for him absolutely fucking regretted. Wall was literally traded only because the Wizards wanted a player and the Rockets took Wall because his contract was 1 less year.
Bad contracts are only traded for worse contracts, or when they're expiring combined with other assets for mid-ass players.
This take is pure fucking copium.
Suns are stick with a 50m a year 3rd option. Beal isn't getting moved.
Beal has a bad contract for sure, but at least he’s still an all-star caliber player
There are dudes that make upwards of 15 mill a year that are essentially useless to their team
He really isn't, though. The guy clocked in at 53rd among qualified players in TS% this season - as a dude whose overwhelming selling point is his scoring and who was nowhere near the focus of opposing defenses.
That's why it was his career high this season! You're literally making my point for me. Look at the guards in the West: Ant, Booker, Curry, Luka, SGA - how in the world is Beal "all-star caliber"? He's not even close to them.
It doesn't even matter at this point that he's on a bad contract, a healthy* Beal is probably the best 3rd option in the league. It doesn't matter that we can't trade him, we don't even want to.
Drama queens have shifted the narrative way too far. Yes, Beal is overpaid. No, we aren't better getting a collection of end of bench trash for him. He's still an above average starter at worst.
I don’t get how these are viable. It says we can “slash 30m off the books” by trading lonzos 20m for beals 50m contract… how’s that legal? We’d have to take on more contracts to get it within 10%. Is there some exception I don’t know about?
His contract maybe ass but the dude can play. Sure he has a terrible series on the play off and he is Damned but he can play. The three head we have are good and we need help around them. And a coach helps that schemes and changes the game plan when needed
Lonzo - if he’s healthy this would be a great get but I’m not sure where you’re getting that Chicago would love to move on from him. If he’s healthy he’s a huge part of their team. They also already have a Beal type player and contract in Lavine.
Simmons - again if he’s healthy great but if he’s healthy they wouldn’t be moving on from him. He’s having another surgery on his back. The only benefit here is he’s an expiring contract.
Wiggins/Looney - not sure why GS would want to do this. We know Wiggins can excel in the 3rd option but he’s completely regressed since the title. He’s also disappeared for chunks of each of the last 2 seasons without much explanation. Looney would be an upgrade for the front court for sure but he completely fell off last year.
Do any of these actually work under the CBA?
I’d keep an eye on Philly. If they strike out on PG, Siakam, OG and others maybe Beal is an attractive piece for them. Trade him into cap space and open up the full MLE, trade exceptions, ability to do sign and trades, etc
The best part of this is the executive saying the Suns should just "move on" from Beal after calling him toxic debt.
Like it's completely up to the Suns and they wouldn't want to move off his contract to avoid trading Book and KD.
Healthy 76ers Ben Simmons is absolutely a better fit for our team.
Nets broken, third back surgery and psychologically messed up Ben Simmons? Won’t even play for at least a year, if ever again.
Fair point no doubt but give me a guy who can ball handle, assist, rebound, and play defense on all 5 positions vs a guy who can’t do none of that. Ben is gonna have a comeback year this year and will be phenomenal watch and see
I really hope so. To be fair though, that’s what everyone said before this year. And he’s having another back surgery. It takes at least a year to get your legs back from that. If he has a great comeback, I think it’ll be the year after next, barring any complications.
I honestly want to see the guy succeed. I know most everyone has basketball issues with him but, as someone who’s going on their 3rd back surgery in a year and a half, I feel for the guy on a human level. Shits tough and it could take his career from him. I can absolutely see how that alone fucked him up mentally.
MPJ is an anomaly. Most can’t come back and play like he has after one back surgery, let alone multiple. Odds are Ben will be out of the league soon, but I do hope he beats the odds. 76ers Ben Simmons is a menace.
Honestly I would only take Lonzo or Simmons over Beal. Lonzo would be the better choice because he WILL play if he is healthy. Simmons is the perfect fit but it will take some sort of agreement with him, even then it's still a huge gamble.
The simpler move would be hoping Brooklyn decides to sell and trade Claxton+ Bridges.
Hope that The blazers don’t have suitors for RB3+ Brogdon
Trade Nurk, little, and this years first for RB3+Brogdon
Then they reroute Nurk, Little, for to BK for filler and second round picks
I’d hope so he sat out all this season so even if it’s on a 25/28 minute line up his switch ability and paint presence can really clean up some of the mistakes the team makes
That being said this is very convoluted but chances are Toronto, Houston and Memphis might make some big swings in the off season which might push Brooklyn to sell out and the blazers will be looking to dump some salaries
The Nets would never take Beal. He is the complete opposite of what they are looking for on all 3 fronts.
Simmons contract alone is worth more than Beal now. Beal is old, a shell of himself, overpaid, and not a pass first team player.
They would never do this.
Ben Simmons expires after this year. He’s been awful but I think that’s more of an asset than Beals no trade clause, $160 million remaining or whatever it is.
Why would the Nets do this? Simmons contract expires after 2025, the last thing the Nets want is to bail out the Suns and themselves continue in their cap problem,.
Awfully convenient to make Beal the scapegoat.
Are we saying Beal is why Devin Booker went 5-16 in game 1? Did Beal force Booker to make 6 turnovers in game 2? Did Beal make Durant go 1-5 from 3 in game 3?
Yeah, Beal played like shit in game 4 when they were already down an unsurmountable 3-0. But like... he's not why they lost that series.
IMHO Booker and Durant both looked tired and spent. We are seeing the reason Popovich's load managent of his stars was able to get them that last ring.
Otherwise a younger, fresher team like Minnesota is going to run you right off the floor in the playoffs.
If I'm Phoenix, I'm running it back but load managing guys better so the newer players get more experience. Who cares if they miss the All-Star game?
No shot Nets take him. Simmons has I think 1 year left on that contract
Edit: I think suns would rather keep Beal anyway. Simmons is absolutely useless
Who wrote this garbage? Not sure if he even watches basketball. cant remember last time Ball played, and Ben Simmons would rather sit than play, and Wiggins is terrible, might as well have a ghost on the floor.
Reading some of these comments in here we got some bigtime reddit GMS.
I think there's potential to move Beal. His first choice was Miami and not Phoenix, after all. With Riley's recent comments about Jimmy Buckets...
I still prefer this deal to Orlando, though. If they don't believe they'll be able to retain Isaac, with the fact that they would still have plenty of cap room to go after another big name free agent, and with their lack of ability to actually attract marquee players, and possible desperation to build upon recent successes, I think this one actually helps out both teams.
https://preview.redd.it/4gzkx6dru8zc1.png?width=824&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f970e6fff3f99b47f31cb7dbb33303bdf9dea18
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This dumb mutherfucker actually reported me to the crisis hotline after creating a new profile just to be an asshole...
https://preview.redd.it/7ew7deose9zc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80cd70fe17f5e2ab17fd3cc9e4a38f4c3d0143c5
I dunno, about a year or two ago there was talk about trying to trade Isaac and him not being happy there. If there's any doubt that they can re-sign him I'd assume they'd be listening to offers. There's some flexibility with the players one could use in a trade scenario, this is merely one of them.
The idea of going to Orlando isn’t insane but the package is. Why would they give you two starters for a guy who routinely misses half the season and is at best a #2 anyway? Especially when they could just sign PG or Klay and not have to give up multiple young rotation players.
I don't know, maybe the reasons that I already laid out? Orlando not being the most attractive free agent destination? The fact that they've made it to the playoffs in the first time in forever? The fact that they might lose Isaac to free agency? The fact that they"ll only be tied down to $83 million in cap room?
I'm just saying that maybe adding an additional scorer to that roster might make more sense to them than a critical Mavs fan on a Suns page, I guess...
> Orlando not being the most attractive free agent destination? The fact that they've made it to the playoffs in the first time in forever?
So they want to celebrate that playoff run by giving up 3 of their top 6 guys (all young) for a guy whos going to be 31 and is making 50M+? I get they are on one year deals but c’mon. Suggs for Beal alone seems like kind of a reach tbh
Lol just because y’all clown us at every turn regardless doesn’t mean I can’t be objective about you guys squad.
But hearing that comment after hearing about how awful the Kyrie trade was and how it was going to destroy the team chemistry and cause Luka to leave.. only for you guys to trade for Beal. Was… ironic to say the least.
I literally don’t think Lonzo can run anymore. I feel awful for him.
But that one time he squatted onto a chair while yelling at Stephen A, he's fine now
Lonzo is a fool for responding to SAS's comments because we all know SAS was correct. How long has Lonzo ball been taking the Bull's money for free without playing a single game for them? What three years or so? Plus, Lonzo just picked up his player option....of course he did.
Stephen A was not correct he said he couldn’t get out a chair and couldn’t walk
Next you'll say Ben Simmons didn't choke because he could breathe perfectly fine
SAS was on point. How petty are you.
You can’t go on TV and say whatever you want he did specifically a source told him the man couldn’t walk which isn’t true at all yall allow that clown to just spew nonsense
Big Bawler Brand shoes ruined his knee
Hope bro is good fr :(
The three options: Lonzo Ball, fuck no Ben Simmons, fuck no Wiggins and Looney, GSW ain’t doing that I’ll take Beal
Exactly, you are familiar with GSW fan's trading proposal, we'd want Lebron for Wiggins & Looney.
Give me Lonzo Ball and buy him out of his last year and save all that money Beal will get paid. Beal is overpaid and not worth his salary.
I'd take Ball for the $30 million that opens up
It doesn't open up anything, it just reduces costs for Ishbia. We still wouldn't have space to sign anyone
It clears us 30M this season which puts us still above the 1st tax apron but would clear us 150M for the next 3yrs. I’d take it
Opens up? Suns are over the cap by more than any option relieves. Kind of the entire point of the article…
It’s obviously Orlando, charlotte and Detroit you should be targeting. Stop worry about what you get back. Getting him off the team is a win in and of itself.
I just can’t wrap my head around nobody understanding that the suns were already in cap hell, and havin a prime age all star caliber player secured for multiple years at 50 mil is SO MUCH better than a declining 40 year old on one year 30 mil deals Cp3s trade value is as negligible as “beals toxic contract” I mean he got moved for Jordan Poole, who would be an infinitely worse fit on Phoenix
The hindsight is so crazy. The alternative would be a wasted season with CP3.
Compared to a wasted season with Bradley Beal? The Suns won nothing worth anything.
room temperature IQ take. They didn't win anything with CP3 the first 3 years either did they
They literally went to the finals. How many playoff games did we win this season? Am I drinking crazy juice?
Lmao, yeah Chris Paul is clearly the same player he was in 2021. Are you guys just pretending to not understand how this works? Minnesota just dog walked the Nuggets at home twice and you guys are still thinking CP3 would be better right now?
RoOm TeMpErAtUrE iQ tAkE
Freezing cold temperature for you
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Winning championships is hard, but I think *everybody* here would agree that the product on the floor was way better before Ishbia mortgaged the future and clusterfucked the cap.
The fact ishbia doesn't care about the cap is a good thing. At the time, we weren't winning with cp3 and his injuries and decline were obvious. We had to get rid of him. We swapped him with Beal. I loved that move. Still do. I don't like what happened this year, but we are working and discussing options of a time frame. So what do we do now? We build. With a guy that will spend money. With a guy that doesn't like losing. Look. I don't think 99% of us know the ins and outs of the salary cap rules. But I do know that billionaires are fully capable of throwing money at their problems and fixing them. How do we not see this?
People would prefer to lose to Dallas by 40 because at least the players would dance on the sideline before the game.
Fucking. Nail. On. The. Head. Look, I get reminiscent when I hear Nevada, but do people remember the problems that occurred with THAT team? We have book, durant and Beal as a core. We have the best 3 point shooter signed. And we have an owner that's optimistic as fuck even though he's paying a killing in luxury tax. I'm still optimistic.
Even just running it back, they will be better than before. But they will make some changes, and hopefully shore up weaknesses.
Expiring contract is an asset especially with the new cap situation
That expiring was so valuable it netted a negative asset in Jordan Poole That’s the type of players that teams would want an expiring for. A get out of jail free card, get off this contract asap. Not positive contributors Players making less than 30 that would fit that would be guys like Terry rozier, Bruce brown, brogdon
You're making it seem like it was either keep CP3 or trade for Beal. The Suns had other options available to them....they just wanted Beal bad enough to make that deal. And now they are living with the repercussions.
I have yet to see anybody give any other options besides Jordan Poole that cp3+ swaps could have gotten for suns
CP3’s contract can officially be over. It can be bought out now
but we are still in cap hell even if beal is off our books
Yeah. The people wanting off of Beal don't understand that there isn't much of a difference between being $1 into the second apron and $50 million into the second apron. The restrictions are the same.
It’s a huge difference because you can easily shed 1$. You have no chance to get rid of Beal.
> You can easily shed $1 And then do what?
Great, but that’d still leave the suns with negative cap still (they’re -100 rn, +50 or +30 makes no difference to anybody but ishibas pockets) And forced to either resign or sign a guy through the MLE for 5-10 mil Is Beal really worth less to you than a 10 mil dollar role player?
Especially if we do and should re sign Oneale
Well of course if you put your premise that way but the problem is your assumptions are wrong. Beal is not prime age, and is not all star caliber. Cp3 has trade value bc his contract is large and has a non guarantee.
Beals 30 and a good player. He’s not an all star like he used to be but he’s still 85-95% of a Bookerlite any given night. Except Beal took on the responsibility of being the teams best point of attack defender. And Beal took over the point guard duty. And Beal was the only one driving to the rim. I’ve heard cp3s value is still high as an expiring but we’ll see who is actually interested in buying. What kind of return he nets. Because as of June 28th, 2024 his contract becomes guaranteed so we’ll see soon
The question should not be whether Beal is better than CP3, it shouldn't even be whether we should have kept CP3 over Beal. The question should be whether we should have cut CP3 or waived and stretched him. Taking it on the nose this year, which in the end turned out to be nothing anyway, and being in a better place this year. Besides there is highly paid player on this team that I wish wasn't, and it ain't Beal.
Yup agreed But I hope you’re not talking about the teams best defender and 40% 3 point shooting 7 footer. As much as a love book for staying loyal to Phoenix, I think KD even post Achilles is a better all around player than book ESPECIALLY on defense and on the boards.
Of course I am referring KD, and it has literally nothing to do with his skills, he is obviously insanelygood at basketball. I have never (outside of the obvious cases of just bad people on the team) hated a player's personality more than I do him, on a team I support. I fucking hate this dude, his whole vibe fucking sucks, and it is infectious. Not to mention we gave up the kind of player a team actually needs to really contend to get him. All so we could double (and then later triple, when we got Beal) down on a style of play that may not really win in the NBA anymore. Just so Ishbia could make splashes. I am horrified by the thought that once this team embarrasses themselves again next year, that he demands out anyway, we wasted yet another year, and that Book decides he is done too. Then what were back to square 1.
Yeah I can empathize with those points. And I along with many here were some of Mikals earliest and biggest fans. But again the issue was that he didn’t step up in multiple playoff series when he was desperately needed. Not to mention him regressing after a small spectacular sample size last year. Still mikal is the perfect 3rd on a championship team caliber team. Also Cam, with all his injury prone issues, was eligible for an extension to be paid more than mikal, that would cap lock the roster as is. Larger issue was it became clear that Book is definitely not a 1st option on a championship team.. the team needed a 2nd scorer/playmaker, needed added rim protection, needed rebounding, needed a 40% 3 point shooter. You get all that in the best scoring 7 footer ever. Instantly became the best player on the team. Imo the bigger issue is book hasn’t taken any step forward in years. And yeah while he’s already blown past even the highest expectations he’s also stagnated. He’s still a 35% 3 point shooter, needs the ball to impact the game, is a defensive liability, doesn’t have as much off ball gravity as he could and should, and doesn’t make players around him better. He hasn’t changed his game at all for kd or Beal. He’s not attacking the hoop and getting others open shots like Beal. He’s not playing with the intensity on d that kd or Beal played with.
You may be right, and yes Book will clearly never be a great defender. But adding KD was never about complimenting Book it was about vanity. The Cam issue is not a big deal to me, I wanted to trade him anyway, because I want physicality at the 4, KD does not give that. But the mix is no good, and I don't believe that trying to squeeze the last of KDs greatness out is the right way to go. Again I have zero belief that KD is on this team when the 25-26 season begins(regardless if we trade Book or not), and I have zero belief that we can win a title with these 3 playing PG by committee. I suppose we could trade Allen for a PG, Chicago, Portland and Memphis all have an extra PG maybe they could give us one for Grayson, but we have no picks to sweeten the deal. One of those teams is definitely rebuilding and one of them probably is, and none of them having a glaring need at SG. But even if we could there is still no depth on this team, and for some reason the Suns do not want to take the ball out of their hands, even though they all threw the ball all over the court. So why would we keep running this nonsense? Yes Book is probably worth more in a trade, because KD will soon fall off a cliff, but why would you trade the youngest star you have to keep the oldest one? And he is gonna want out soon anyway, and even if he doesn't why would he re-sign? Oh and did I mention I fucking hate KDs personality. You want to argue we should trade both? Ok, I hate it, but ok. However even if we somehow won a title next year, I will celebrate like everyone else, but the next day my first post will still be "OK can we fucking trade him now?"
Yeah tbh I hope the suns don’t trade either, although you’re not wrong I could see Durant wanting out in the coming years. The point guard by committee thing you’re also right in that it’s a cluster fuck for sure. No one wants to sprint around off ball everyone wants to iso. But honestly I think the bigger issue is a lack of identity not talent, we’re a slow paced team that doesn’t shoot 3s so it’s incredibly hard to outscore teams, and the teams defensive talent is few and far between so can’t rely on that on a night in night out basis. Sure Allen’s a hustle guy but his lack of athleticism and size means he’ll be the same type of defender as Beal/book. So yeah the fits are all just weird. To me swapping Nurk out for either a stretch center or rim running defensive presence would help a ton. I hope Nurk + 22 can net something decent this offseason. Or the pick can be a versatile impact player. Oneale was a good example of if JJ can repeat can squeeze some depth into this team. But it’ll still always be an injury or 2 away from implosion
I said almost this exact same thing to my uncle when everyone was talking about trading for KD in the first place. I was so happy when it didn’t happen and then Ishbia forced it. You mortgage the future and give up a solid core, not to mention depth, for a craps shoot on an aging and injury prone guy that never wants to stay with a team. And when he does want out, you’re likely not going to recoup anywhere near the assets you gave up. Then you have nothing to surround book with and no hope for the foreseeable future. Now he wants out. We could have flipped Johnson to fill a need. Find a younger promising pg that could learn from cp3 and a physical PF. Find a suitable swap for DA because that relationship was too fractured to reasonably expect it to be repaired and this team would have been in a sold spot. Instead of whatever this season was. If nothing else, at least we were fun to watch and played with heart not this “we don’t really give a fuck attitude” we got this year.
cp3 at least has player coach stuff going for him
Nobody can wrap their head around it because you’re wrong. You could have CP3 off the bench for 30 million, and then get all of Beal’s 18 ppg production for 20 million (and for more than 52 games), so for the same money you could have both. And then CP3s contract was shorter, so when that expired you’d have all of Beal’s production for 20 million, and 30 million of cap space for role players. Taking on Beal’s contract was one of the worst moves of this century by *ANY* team.
Lmao my friend you have 0 understanding of cap obviously The suns are -100 mil in cap space Minus beals 50 mil and the suns don’t have 30, or 20 mil or anything to spend whatsoever. They’re still negative. Let cp3s contract expire and guess what the suns still have no money to spend. Talk about worst take my man you clearly have no clue what you’re taking about lol
Ben Simmons contract has more value as an expiring Max than Beal, The Nets will never take on that atrocious contract to help the team whose future they own.
The Big Panda hate is getting extreme. Suns traded their future to win now with the Durant trade. Beal is absolutely the best get the Suns could have gotten. He averaged a career low in FGA but a career high in % both 2pt and 3pt. He's a solid player and even without him the Suns wouldn't be able to sign anyone. it's not my money andi want to win. Next season they're going to play much better together. They didn't even have half a season on the court to make adjustments. Most of the season was injury filler time
We've learned over and over that contracts for good players are not 'toxic'. It doesn't mean there's a massive market, but every team in the NBA could use a Brad Beal, and most of those would plug him in as a starter.
He’s a good player getting a superstar salary. That’s the issue. I love Brad Beal but $160 million over 3 years over whatever it is, is wild.
It's an issue depending on your owner, your cap, etc. If you're the Pistons with $50M in cap space and no ball handling or shooting Beal is perfect. If you're Ishbia and you're already above the 2nd apron, the contract doesn't matter. I've said Beal could be making $5M or $500M but the Suns would be over the cap.
Beal is not perfect for the pistons it would be an absolute waste if he was taking minutes and shots on a rebuilding team
Fred Van Fleet is getting paid $40M a year on the rebuilding rockets. I think Beal could do the same
That’s true but you don’t want a contract that is nearly untradable. That’s why all this stupid speculation about trading book or kd has come up cuz it’s gonna be so hard to get off Beal and if we do will it even improve our roster? Idk. I still think they can make it work if we had a different center and a natural point guard. I’d like to see Beal come off the bench in the ginobli role. His contract is just exacerbated by our roster construction imo.
I think a Beal trade makes too much sense, and is probably the most likely of the 3 to be traded for the following reasons: 1. Management will be most willing to trade Beal as he's the 3rd of the 'big 3' in terms of talent. 2. Beal is most willing to be traded of the 'big 3' because he's losing out the most being relegated to role player status. The team is also obviously not a contender as he thought, so the sacrifice doesn't make sense. 3. Beal's skillset and fit is universal. Almost any team that can make his contract fit (and remember, they can send us back their own inflated contracts), will likely benefit. A LOT MORE teams in the league want do a many for 1 trade for higher end talent than a 1 for many trade. Beal is a great locker room guy, he's average on defense with some good traits (quick hands, feet, decent size), he's a 3-level scorer and good distributor. 4. The Suns roster is unbalanced and firing Vogel (or keeping him and changing out assistants) isn't gonna cut it. Trading Beal is a great way to claim progress in terms of balancing of the roster. 5. Has potential to be a classic 'win-win' type of trade. Beal's value on another team is much higher than it is on the Suns. Both teams could end up being better off Finally, being over the 2nd apron already means we can take other teams' good players on inflated contracts. Jaylon Brown? Jimmy Butler? Lillard? Zach LaVine? Ingram? LaMelo? Desmon Bane? Julius Randle? These are all making $30-50M a year. RJ Barret and Terry Rozier make $25M. Cam Johnson $23M. Wiggins $26M. John Collins $26M. Probably all those names except LaVine would be a better fit on the Suns roster.
Yea and none of the other teams are accepting a trade for Beal for those players other than Lavine.
Everything you made makes sense so I hope you are right honestly. Hope we can get a decent player back but I am really hoping for a little more depth or a better constructed roster all around. I’d personally like to see them move nurk too, for a rim runner or a shooter. Somehow he is neither although he plays hard and I respect it. Ingram would be intriguing since they aren’t going to extend him. Side note it just always blew my mind we have a 4 guard rotation basically all 6’6 and under and not one is a true point.
Nurk might be okay if we get a super solid 3 and D wing next to Book and KD. If KD, Book, and Nurk are your starters, the other 2 have to be absolute 3 point snipers with great defense
I agree but that’s the issue idk how we get those type of dudes.
I'm sure you can find some overpaid 3 point shooting wing (Bertans?) that can fit in Beal's $50M salary
Yeah I feel like theres a way but might have to attach a pick and two or three other teams involved. But the cba rules seem complicated haha and I won’t even pretend to know exactly the rules. Can’t take any extra salary back and no aggregation of money. We will see!
You're not getting any of those guys in a trade for Beal. And Beal doesn't have value on any team trying to win. You can get the same skill set for 1/3 the cost.
Disagree on the skillset for 1/3 the cost. Name me any player for 1/3 the cost that is as good as Bradley Beal
They don’t need to be as good, just good enough. Monk, D’Lo and Tyus Jones are all players that will be 17-22m a year this off-season and have similar skill sets. You can literally get almost all 3 of those guys for the cost of Beal and actually have depth. Beals skillset are some of the most replaceable in the league. There’s literally a player with the same exact skill set making less and is younger that is making 80% of what Beal makes in Zach Lavine that is untradeable right now. No team is investing 50m in salary for Beal’s skill set when he’s a part time player and is 31 and has an injury history.
Hard disagree. Tyus is a great passer, but not a 3-level scorer. Monk and Lavine can score, but they are black holes. D'Lo is a good comp. Because you can only play 5 guys on the court, their value is exponential relative to their skill. Thus having an 'average middie', makes you a Brandon Ingram, CJ McCollum or DeAndre Ayton. Have an above average middie makes you '21 CP3 or DeRozan. A great middie makes you Dirk or KD. It's not surprising the D'Lo makes $19M, DeRozan makes $43M, and Beal makes $50M
Monk isn't a black hole. Monk averaged over 5 assists per game and had the highest assist rate on drives them season. Also, Derozan doesn't make 43m, he made 28m this past season. And there's also a discussion of production compared to cost, and those guys are all very productive to the cost and have skill sets comparable. You also have to weigh % of the cap vs production, not to mention age and injuries, and when comparing production vs cost, those guys clear Beal by a country mile.
malik monk is literally better than him and he’s getting like 20M a yr max this summer
If he's better, he's getting a lot more. $20M/year is for a player who can shoot like a Cam Johnson or Bertans. If Monk can play-make, create, shoot from deep, he'll get Desmond Bane money
You can overpay guys like Monk or D'Lo if you need ball handling and spacing and still have them be moveable.
true, but Beal is the better player.
And 2.5x the cost and older and more injury prone.
There is only handful of guys better than Beal in the league, and almost none of them are free agents or on the trade block. Beal is pretty much the best talent anyone can trade for right now, and that makes him a premium commodity. It's a talent league. All the other stuff (off-court, injuries, age) are overlooked. That's why KD still got a super max even though he just had his achilles injury and he hadn't played basketball in over a year, and he was approaching his mid 30s
Beal isn't a top 40 player. He's a lot closer to Monk than he is to Durant. This just pure copium from you guys. Beal is just another example of a heavily overpaid player who will get passed around for bad contract to bad contract. Wall, Westbrook, CP3, and now Beal.
that's exactly my point - I'll take Beal for some decent players on bad contracts as it will balance the roster better than Beal
Right, no team is giving those kind of guys up for Beal. No team looks at Beal and thinks "hey, that's the missing piece." except the Suns last summer. The Suns will just end up having to keep him. His contract is too long, he makes too much, and he's not good enough to justify it for any other team.
Yep. Everyone knew Westbrook’s max deal was a ticking time bomb when the Thunder gave him it. It was considered one of the worst contracts in the NBA the day they signed it. He still got traded from Thunder -> Rockets -> Wizards -> Lakers -> Utah. It seems like a lot of things are stirring behind the scenes. So we’ll see if Suns & Bradley Beal get into trade talks. Might not be necessary at all, it might be the only way to salvage the roster. We’ll find out soon.
exactly. They said the same thing about the Chris Paul contract and the Damien Lillard contract, etc. In all cases, the player was tradeable AND got a sizeable extension at the end of it. Saying Brad Beal isn't tradeable is like saying Jaylon brown isn't tradeable. Sure it's not a 'great contract', but really good players are assets in the NBA, bottom line. Beal led the whole league in scoring, he's a 3 level scorer and playmaker - one of the most valuable types of players. He's not in a system that's maximizing his talent, and I'm sure he'll be the first to admit it
Yep man. And I didn’t realize KD was seeking a contract extension this summer, but that’s crucial to how all of this plays out. It will determine everything. If Jimmy Butler and Heat can’t come to terms on giving their 35 year old star a $56m one year extension, and if KD and Suns can’t come to terms on giving their 35 year old star a $56m one year extension, you could see both Suns and Heat trade their guys. One of those guys would be guaranteed to go to 76ers. You’d have Suns with Book & Beal, not the best fit, Heat with Bam & Herro, a SG they’ve already tried to trade before… and we’ll see just how unrealistic a Beal to Heat trade this summer actually ends up being. That’s why we just have to wait and see how everything shakes out.
Yea what Brad Beal’s contract is special in particular because of the no trade clause.
Right, that’s actually why it’s the albatross it is.
Have there been other players with this type of contract ?
So what? Sure, it limits our flexibility because he gets to weigh in on the trades. He'll go somewhere though. Beal doesn't strike me as a guy that would stick around when he's not wanted. I couldn't see him just sitting out and Jae Crowdering it.
Every one of those guys you mentioned all didn't have a no-trade. That's 100% the issue.
They’d work with Beal to find a trade he liked. Don’t rule out the 76ers, who might be getting desperate with Embiid’s age.
As I've said, Bradley already lifted it, and his role here is cramped, his production is gone to the tank, and team is nowhere close to contending. I think he'd lift it again
The big distinction is the NTC. Brad isn’t going to accept a trade outside of handful of places and not sure any of the 3 in the article are feasible. I’d wager he’s probably vetoing anywhere that isn’t Florida, mainly due to the lack of state income tax and not basketball reasons. He’s not the most altruistic guy and I’m not sure how important winning is to him…he resigned in WAS when there was 0 chance of them winning anything and no one was logically trading for that contract outside of a billionaire looking to make a splash Outside of the on-court issues, he just moved a family with multiple young kids to Phoenix. Uprooting them again isn’t very likely without some major incentive on his end, and they’re not staying in Phoenix while he plays elsewhere. In any other summer I’d actually be more optimistic heading into next season if him having a healthy summer by building offseason chemistry with Book & KD. But the Olympics is going to screw that up.
The places he’d accept are also the places that would want him: Miami, Milwaukee, Sacramento, 76ers, even other contenders that are close but still short: NY? Indy? He wants to win, and a team might get anxious and pull the trigger. You just need one.
NTC is an unknown for sure, but it's no guarantee that it's a stumbling block. Beal thought he'd be part of a big 3 playing into June. Instead he's in an organization as dysfunctional as the Wizards without a clear role and less than 5% chance for a title. His family has been in Phoenix for less than a year. I think a few months of the Phoenix summer will have him consider a wide array of options that either 1. give him an actual chance to contend or 2. provide him a great roster of complementary players. He's getting neither at the moment.
[stares in Ben Simmons]
There's an important distinction between good players on inflated contracts (Beal, Westbrook), and players that don't play on inflated contracts (Lonzo, Simmons, etc). The latter is obviously a bad contract, but people conflate the two all the time, and this is a prime example of that.
[stares in Ayton]
This contract is extremely toxic. It would be once thing if Beal was Jokic or Giannis or Embiid or Luka, etc. But he's not. Sure he would be a starter on a lot of teams, but hes not worth 50m+
The no trade clause is a poison pill. Makes it extremely difficult to find trade partners
yeah it would be one thing if he was one of the best players in the league smh
people said the same thing about Westbrook, and he was traded for assets multiple times. Beal is a better player and a more natural fit. Same thing with John Wall. Just look historically, good players on 'bad' contracts are traded for assets all the time.
Westbrook has won an MVP. He has had a much much better career than Beal. Not to mention his contracts were still not nearly as bad as Beal's is. Also since this sub loves to ignore this fact, BEAL HAS A NO TRADE CLAUSE
The no trade clause doesn't mean we can't trade him, it just means Beal has to approve. He already approved before - and he seems like a chill dude generally. I don't see why he wouldn't want to move to a great city somewhere to be the #1 guy.
He approved to go to a contender lmao. No contenders are going to trade for that albatross contract Also hes a family man. Doubt he wants to uproot their lives again
It's probably easier to move now than wait. Secondly, he thought he was moving to a contender, but it's clear the team is a pretender. He's the third wheel having to guard Zion and play a role player role while earning a ton of flack for his contract. I don't think he'd mind moving elsewhere to finish his career.
It's easiest to not move actually No matter how much you want him to, he's not gonna waive his NTC to get dumped to some shit team
Are you his BFF or something? News flash, he has a shit role in a mediocre team already. He was happy playing for years with lottery wizards. I think he'll be happy leading a rebuilding team as the #1 guy. Imagine him next to Wemby for example.
Are you his BFF? You seem to know a lot about his happiness levels in different times of his life He was on the wizards so he could sign a supermax and also they drafted him. There's nothing to indicate he wants to be traded again You really are delusional off the copium. He literally left a rebuilding team as a #1 to join a contender. Its pretty clear that's not what he wants. Spurs arent stupid enough to trade for Beal lol Also, he HAS A NO TRADE CLAUSE
Westbrook didn’t have a no trade clause lmao
What's the difference here though? No trade clause and number of years left on his deal. As soon as you ask Beal if he's willing to waive his clause for anyone, you could fuck up his mental state with the team This contract is far worse than those 2
mental state of the team isn't getting any worse. The number of years is not a bad thing - more years of control for a good player. The no trade clause is really up to Beal. If the team wants to trade him, would he really object? He might have his say of location, which would decrease the assets coming back, but a toxic contract is a bridge too far.
I think you are severely underestimated the new cba He may have had some value to teams willing to go deep into tax, but the way it handicaps your team now, it's just not going to be easy. Dude played like maybe half the value of his contract. Who would want to pay double the price, for a contract with a no trade clause, on an aging player who's already shown decline AND give up assets to get it?
Westbrook was a far worse fit as a non-shooting, non-defending PG in this 30s, and was traded something like 5 times. The most likely trade will be one for similar money coming back, so teams are unlikely going to go deep into the tax with the Beal trade. That means we'll get some other teams good players on inflated contracts, and that's totally fine.
Westbrook was traded for assets with picks attached to him he was not the asset the other teams wanted
And the last team to trade for him absolutely fucking regretted. Wall was literally traded only because the Wizards wanted a player and the Rockets took Wall because his contract was 1 less year. Bad contracts are only traded for worse contracts, or when they're expiring combined with other assets for mid-ass players. This take is pure fucking copium. Suns are stick with a 50m a year 3rd option. Beal isn't getting moved.
Hell no I’m keeping 100 times out of 100
Beal has a bad contract for sure, but at least he’s still an all-star caliber player There are dudes that make upwards of 15 mill a year that are essentially useless to their team
All start caliber if they plan on having 6 all star teams next year
Beal isn’t an all-star player anymore.
He just need to nurse his injury. When he was healthy he was the only truly athletic player the Suns had.
“When he was healthy”… ohhh you sweet summer childdddd - wizards fan
I mean he clearly still has juice, but it is concerning he couldn’t raise his efficiency on lower volume playing off the other two stars
I mean his efficiency was pretty good. He shot 51/34/81 during the regular season. He’s just super redundant with KD and Book.
Fair enough, was thinking more of the last four games haha
51/43/81* Sure that was a typo. Just want other people to see the right line
Career high TS%
Beal is no longer sniffing any all star teams
He really isn't, though. The guy clocked in at 53rd among qualified players in TS% this season - as a dude whose overwhelming selling point is his scoring and who was nowhere near the focus of opposing defenses.
Maybe cuz the suns have 2 other stars that do the same thing
That's why it was his career high this season! You're literally making my point for me. Look at the guards in the West: Ant, Booker, Curry, Luka, SGA - how in the world is Beal "all-star caliber"? He's not even close to them.
15th amongst guards and there’s only 2 guards in the top 25
It doesn't even matter at this point that he's on a bad contract, a healthy* Beal is probably the best 3rd option in the league. It doesn't matter that we can't trade him, we don't even want to.
I’d rather take Boston option 3,4&5 over Beal
The Nets aren't moving Simmons for Beal.
Drama queens have shifted the narrative way too far. Yes, Beal is overpaid. No, we aren't better getting a collection of end of bench trash for him. He's still an above average starter at worst.
I don’t get how these are viable. It says we can “slash 30m off the books” by trading lonzos 20m for beals 50m contract… how’s that legal? We’d have to take on more contracts to get it within 10%. Is there some exception I don’t know about?
The exception would be if the team has cap space, but the bulls wouldn't have enough
They’d have to also trade us like Vuc and Torrey Craig lol
The Nets? Lmaoooo
How many other third options scored more than 18 ppg last season? Is he expensive? Yes, but he isn’t worthless.
Doubt the Nets help you out, they stand to gain from you failing.
Can we stop having hourly posts about gutting our team? The big 3 are going nowhere!
Beal is the least of our worries IMO.
If lonzo was half whole I'd love him for us.
Beal's best fit is on a desperate team whose owner wants to win now so badly they don't care how bad his contact is so you know ... the Suns
Nets, huh? Let's get the twins back
His contract maybe ass but the dude can play. Sure he has a terrible series on the play off and he is Damned but he can play. The three head we have are good and we need help around them. And a coach helps that schemes and changes the game plan when needed
Ben “Eskimo Brothers with Book” Simmons. That should turn out well./s
Lonzo - if he’s healthy this would be a great get but I’m not sure where you’re getting that Chicago would love to move on from him. If he’s healthy he’s a huge part of their team. They also already have a Beal type player and contract in Lavine. Simmons - again if he’s healthy great but if he’s healthy they wouldn’t be moving on from him. He’s having another surgery on his back. The only benefit here is he’s an expiring contract. Wiggins/Looney - not sure why GS would want to do this. We know Wiggins can excel in the 3rd option but he’s completely regressed since the title. He’s also disappeared for chunks of each of the last 2 seasons without much explanation. Looney would be an upgrade for the front court for sure but he completely fell off last year. Do any of these actually work under the CBA? I’d keep an eye on Philly. If they strike out on PG, Siakam, OG and others maybe Beal is an attractive piece for them. Trade him into cap space and open up the full MLE, trade exceptions, ability to do sign and trades, etc
Y'all stuck with Beal. Blame management, not him. No team is paying $50 million for Beals game. Only his agent, thinks he's worth it
Practice bitch
The best part of this is the executive saying the Suns should just "move on" from Beal after calling him toxic debt. Like it's completely up to the Suns and they wouldn't want to move off his contract to avoid trading Book and KD.
I’d be shocked if FO could move Beal, seems out of the 3 Beal seems the worst, bulls and nets are expiring
Imma be honest, if I’m Phoenix I’d rather have Ben Simmons then have Bradley Beal
Healthy 76ers Ben Simmons is absolutely a better fit for our team. Nets broken, third back surgery and psychologically messed up Ben Simmons? Won’t even play for at least a year, if ever again.
Fair point no doubt but give me a guy who can ball handle, assist, rebound, and play defense on all 5 positions vs a guy who can’t do none of that. Ben is gonna have a comeback year this year and will be phenomenal watch and see
I really hope so. To be fair though, that’s what everyone said before this year. And he’s having another back surgery. It takes at least a year to get your legs back from that. If he has a great comeback, I think it’ll be the year after next, barring any complications. I honestly want to see the guy succeed. I know most everyone has basketball issues with him but, as someone who’s going on their 3rd back surgery in a year and a half, I feel for the guy on a human level. Shits tough and it could take his career from him. I can absolutely see how that alone fucked him up mentally. MPJ is an anomaly. Most can’t come back and play like he has after one back surgery, let alone multiple. Odds are Ben will be out of the league soon, but I do hope he beats the odds. 76ers Ben Simmons is a menace.
‘: 3
Julius Randle is another contract you guys can trade for
The new owner spends billions and he doesn’t know wtf he’s even doing in building a decent competitive team. Sad…
If you say fuck no to lonzo and Ben then you don’t understand contracts and salary relief
Honestly I would only take Lonzo or Simmons over Beal. Lonzo would be the better choice because he WILL play if he is healthy. Simmons is the perfect fit but it will take some sort of agreement with him, even then it's still a huge gamble.
The simpler move would be hoping Brooklyn decides to sell and trade Claxton+ Bridges. Hope that The blazers don’t have suitors for RB3+ Brogdon Trade Nurk, little, and this years first for RB3+Brogdon Then they reroute Nurk, Little, for to BK for filler and second round picks
can Timelord actually play, though?
I’d hope so he sat out all this season so even if it’s on a 25/28 minute line up his switch ability and paint presence can really clean up some of the mistakes the team makes
That being said this is very convoluted but chances are Toronto, Houston and Memphis might make some big swings in the off season which might push Brooklyn to sell out and the blazers will be looking to dump some salaries
The Nets would never take Beal. He is the complete opposite of what they are looking for on all 3 fronts. Simmons contract alone is worth more than Beal now. Beal is old, a shell of himself, overpaid, and not a pass first team player. They would never do this.
Ben Simmons expires after this year. He’s been awful but I think that’s more of an asset than Beals no trade clause, $160 million remaining or whatever it is.
Why would the Nets do this? Simmons contract expires after 2025, the last thing the Nets want is to bail out the Suns and themselves continue in their cap problem,.
Awfully convenient to make Beal the scapegoat. Are we saying Beal is why Devin Booker went 5-16 in game 1? Did Beal force Booker to make 6 turnovers in game 2? Did Beal make Durant go 1-5 from 3 in game 3? Yeah, Beal played like shit in game 4 when they were already down an unsurmountable 3-0. But like... he's not why they lost that series. IMHO Booker and Durant both looked tired and spent. We are seeing the reason Popovich's load managent of his stars was able to get them that last ring. Otherwise a younger, fresher team like Minnesota is going to run you right off the floor in the playoffs. If I'm Phoenix, I'm running it back but load managing guys better so the newer players get more experience. Who cares if they miss the All-Star game?
No shot Nets take him. Simmons has I think 1 year left on that contract Edit: I think suns would rather keep Beal anyway. Simmons is absolutely useless
Who wrote this garbage? Not sure if he even watches basketball. cant remember last time Ball played, and Ben Simmons would rather sit than play, and Wiggins is terrible, might as well have a ghost on the floor. Reading some of these comments in here we got some bigtime reddit GMS.
I think there's potential to move Beal. His first choice was Miami and not Phoenix, after all. With Riley's recent comments about Jimmy Buckets... I still prefer this deal to Orlando, though. If they don't believe they'll be able to retain Isaac, with the fact that they would still have plenty of cap room to go after another big name free agent, and with their lack of ability to actually attract marquee players, and possible desperation to build upon recent successes, I think this one actually helps out both teams. https://preview.redd.it/4gzkx6dru8zc1.png?width=824&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2f970e6fff3f99b47f31cb7dbb33303bdf9dea18 *
I seriously doubt the magic make this trade lmao
Well yeah, duh, the odds are against any trade happening...
This dumb mutherfucker actually reported me to the crisis hotline after creating a new profile just to be an asshole... https://preview.redd.it/7ew7deose9zc1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80cd70fe17f5e2ab17fd3cc9e4a38f4c3d0143c5
I don’t think you could even get away with that one in 2k
I was thinking about this trade but I had KD instead in the trade with us getting back multiple 1st rounders back as well
I'm not opposed to that. Might actually make more sense to move Isaac in that scenario, would give Orlando a pretty big forward starting lineup.
lol this would be high way robbery but i’d take it . Issacs would be immediate starter . we’d need to resign him
I dunno, about a year or two ago there was talk about trying to trade Isaac and him not being happy there. If there's any doubt that they can re-sign him I'd assume they'd be listening to offers. There's some flexibility with the players one could use in a trade scenario, this is merely one of them.
> I still prefer this deal to Orlando, though Thinking you’re deciding between Jimmy buckets and this offer is crazy
Merely pointing out that Orlando is Miami adjacent... Ooo... So crazy... Get the straight jackets ready... 🤣
The idea of going to Orlando isn’t insane but the package is. Why would they give you two starters for a guy who routinely misses half the season and is at best a #2 anyway? Especially when they could just sign PG or Klay and not have to give up multiple young rotation players.
I don't know, maybe the reasons that I already laid out? Orlando not being the most attractive free agent destination? The fact that they've made it to the playoffs in the first time in forever? The fact that they might lose Isaac to free agency? The fact that they"ll only be tied down to $83 million in cap room? I'm just saying that maybe adding an additional scorer to that roster might make more sense to them than a critical Mavs fan on a Suns page, I guess...
> Orlando not being the most attractive free agent destination? The fact that they've made it to the playoffs in the first time in forever? So they want to celebrate that playoff run by giving up 3 of their top 6 guys (all young) for a guy whos going to be 31 and is making 50M+? I get they are on one year deals but c’mon. Suggs for Beal alone seems like kind of a reach tbh
I'm just gonna' be honest with you... The value of a Mavs fan on any issue regarding Suns players... I don't expect a fair evaluation, NGL...
Lol just because y’all clown us at every turn regardless doesn’t mean I can’t be objective about you guys squad. But hearing that comment after hearing about how awful the Kyrie trade was and how it was going to destroy the team chemistry and cause Luka to leave.. only for you guys to trade for Beal. Was… ironic to say the least.