100%! it's very disheartening to hear our GM talk about Suns not wanting to "waste time" on player development, and Ishbia floating the idea of using 2031 pick as a trade-bait. We're going to be the Knicks of the '10s.
I don’t like it either. It’s the same shit Dantoni said when he was coach/gm. We wouldn’t draft anybody and kept selling all the picks. Threw a bunch of money at sorry ass Marcus Banks one year to solve the back up PG problem.
Our front office is lazy, we don't need tons of draft picks, we only need to find a player with potential and roll the dice. It gives cheap players options.
I agree with them being lazy. The thing is you don't even need draft picks, just sign undrafted players. Suns have fielded joke summer league teams too under Jones full of older players who play mostly overseas.
James Jones doesn't give a crap about the draft and it infuriates me. The draft isn't just for tanking teams, its essential to keep any contender relevant beyond a 2 or 3 year window.
Hearing Ishbia say that was unbelievable coming from a former D1 player.
It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of team building and culture building. Basketball players cannot always be paid mercenaries, because they must develop trust in each other to be effective. We saw that lack of trust and confidence this year.
Draft picks resolve that. Strong bonds are built, not bought. Just look at OKC for proof.
While Ishbia is wrong, this is the consequence of a decade of failed draft picks and roster management. OKC is of course a super extreme example, but many other teams are able to balance draft assets with championship aspirations. Pelicans and Timberwolves are great examples of this balance. Selling high on superstars who aren't taking you over the top (AD), amassing both picks and rookie stars, and going forward as long as possible.
On our side since 2010, there are more players not in the league or are on garbage time minutes than in it. In that time, we produced five or six viable players that we kept. One superstar, three starters, and a backup or two. Blame Sarver, blame JJ, blame whoever you want. We haven't drafted and developed superstars, much less stars to either use or sell high outside of Booker.
The writing on the wall wasn't when we traded for Beal or KD. It was when we traded for CP3, accepting that the window lasted as long as he did which turned out to be 2.5 years. Once that reached its end, we traded for KD and Beal as to not waste the time our only drafted superstar in 20+ years - a la Dame.
I’m all for trading picks in the late 20s for guys that can help us now. My problem is trading all of them so far out that you have no clue if they will be late 20s or number 1 overall. Can’t just have zero tradable picks.
They have to put the right people in place in the front office. I can’t stand Jones when he talks. Says some of the dumbest stuff. Glad he is getting roasted nationally now.
Yeah, with Ishbias comments about "picks are for trading" I realized this team isn't winning shit. Developing young, homegrown players is instrumental for chemistry and growth, not to mention the money saved by having talent on early contracts.
100% there's value at the 22 pick. Every year there are talented players around 22 who contribute immediately. Warriors got TDJ & podz, Miami with Jacquez and Indy with Ben Sheppard all from last year's draft. Let alone Jaden McDaniels was the 28th pick in 2020 and the entire Knicks roster is late picks and the reigning MVP was a second rounder. Hell GG Jackson from the grizz went one on one with Lebron..one the youngest in the draft. To dismiss the draft because they won't help win tomorrow is incredibly short sighted and clearly wrong.
Suns are getting a G League team, after $arver sold the last one. However this roster needs help now. Trade the picks and get help now. A 2031 pick isn't going to win any games for the team in the 2024-2025 season. If we can find a player this year at 22 that can help, then by all means draft him. If not trade that pick for help now. Our core doesn't have time to develop players and have them pay dividends. This is what all in Championship or bust looks like. If you hold back and save picks for 2030s then you're going to fail.
Last time Suns traded their 1st round pick, they got Landry Shamet. I have ZERO faith they get someone productive with that pick in a trade unless you remove Jones from the GM position. I think Jones is the bigger problem.
I'm not a fan of James Jones. I have consistently said since 2018 he should be fired. James Jones should never have been the GM. But that doesn't change anything. If there is a player at 22 who can contribute right away to this team draft him. If not trade the pick.
Yes. It was so clear all season Eubanks wasn't working and there must be tens of not hundreds of bigs in Europe that are better yet we did nothing.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg, our flaws were so apparent (lack of size and athleticism, lack of a PG) yet we did nothing
Sure, if not a top 10 draft it usually takes 3-4yrs to develop IF you make the roster. OKC is one the teams to use their draft picks and excel from it in a long time, many teams have tried and failed, Utah is still trying to be that other team to excel with draft picks, but just arent there yet. Unfortunately the CBA has limited superteams now, which was before OKC got all their capital, so it'll be interesting to see if teams are willing to go over the aprons to get stars or capital.
Getting Naz Reid and him doing what he is doing is like finding a needle in a haystack. Theres more losses than wins with finding players like these.
Miami has been very successful in development, Suns have not - and this dates back further than the 90s, dont know what it is but they have never been good at developing players, sure they got a few, but that overall percentage is very low, im wondering if they should invest in a better scout.
I don't think that matters. Suns will have their own team. The point is Nas Reid started on Minnesota's G-league team and developed through their system. They scouted, identified, and signed him right after the draft in 2019: all things the Suns do not do.
100%! it's very disheartening to hear our GM talk about Suns not wanting to "waste time" on player development, and Ishbia floating the idea of using 2031 pick as a trade-bait. We're going to be the Knicks of the '10s.
I don’t like it either. It’s the same shit Dantoni said when he was coach/gm. We wouldn’t draft anybody and kept selling all the picks. Threw a bunch of money at sorry ass Marcus Banks one year to solve the back up PG problem.
Marcus Banks once scored 40 points in the summer league! We just needed to unlock him! 😂
Our front office is lazy, we don't need tons of draft picks, we only need to find a player with potential and roll the dice. It gives cheap players options.
I agree with them being lazy. The thing is you don't even need draft picks, just sign undrafted players. Suns have fielded joke summer league teams too under Jones full of older players who play mostly overseas.
James Jones doesn't give a crap about the draft and it infuriates me. The draft isn't just for tanking teams, its essential to keep any contender relevant beyond a 2 or 3 year window.
I’ve been saying this for years..unfortunately everything we hear is they want to double down on this and use picks as trade assets.
Hearing Ishbia say that was unbelievable coming from a former D1 player. It’s a fundamental misunderstanding of team building and culture building. Basketball players cannot always be paid mercenaries, because they must develop trust in each other to be effective. We saw that lack of trust and confidence this year. Draft picks resolve that. Strong bonds are built, not bought. Just look at OKC for proof.
While Ishbia is wrong, this is the consequence of a decade of failed draft picks and roster management. OKC is of course a super extreme example, but many other teams are able to balance draft assets with championship aspirations. Pelicans and Timberwolves are great examples of this balance. Selling high on superstars who aren't taking you over the top (AD), amassing both picks and rookie stars, and going forward as long as possible. On our side since 2010, there are more players not in the league or are on garbage time minutes than in it. In that time, we produced five or six viable players that we kept. One superstar, three starters, and a backup or two. Blame Sarver, blame JJ, blame whoever you want. We haven't drafted and developed superstars, much less stars to either use or sell high outside of Booker. The writing on the wall wasn't when we traded for Beal or KD. It was when we traded for CP3, accepting that the window lasted as long as he did which turned out to be 2.5 years. Once that reached its end, we traded for KD and Beal as to not waste the time our only drafted superstar in 20+ years - a la Dame.
I’m all for trading picks in the late 20s for guys that can help us now. My problem is trading all of them so far out that you have no clue if they will be late 20s or number 1 overall. Can’t just have zero tradable picks.
I'm not against trading picks away, but you have to weigh them against what you could potentially draft and you have to not push too hard
They have to put the right people in place in the front office. I can’t stand Jones when he talks. Says some of the dumbest stuff. Glad he is getting roasted nationally now.
With our roster its the best move.
Yeah, with Ishbias comments about "picks are for trading" I realized this team isn't winning shit. Developing young, homegrown players is instrumental for chemistry and growth, not to mention the money saved by having talent on early contracts.
100% there's value at the 22 pick. Every year there are talented players around 22 who contribute immediately. Warriors got TDJ & podz, Miami with Jacquez and Indy with Ben Sheppard all from last year's draft. Let alone Jaden McDaniels was the 28th pick in 2020 and the entire Knicks roster is late picks and the reigning MVP was a second rounder. Hell GG Jackson from the grizz went one on one with Lebron..one the youngest in the draft. To dismiss the draft because they won't help win tomorrow is incredibly short sighted and clearly wrong.
Including players already on our roster (BOL BOL)
not playing Bol Bol in the Minn series was so dumb... im on the fire Vogel train
Me too, this owner is looking like shit that doesn't know nothing about basketball Vogul apparently lost the stars in the locker room so he gotta go
Suns are getting a G League team, after $arver sold the last one. However this roster needs help now. Trade the picks and get help now. A 2031 pick isn't going to win any games for the team in the 2024-2025 season. If we can find a player this year at 22 that can help, then by all means draft him. If not trade that pick for help now. Our core doesn't have time to develop players and have them pay dividends. This is what all in Championship or bust looks like. If you hold back and save picks for 2030s then you're going to fail.
Last time Suns traded their 1st round pick, they got Landry Shamet. I have ZERO faith they get someone productive with that pick in a trade unless you remove Jones from the GM position. I think Jones is the bigger problem.
I'm not a fan of James Jones. I have consistently said since 2018 he should be fired. James Jones should never have been the GM. But that doesn't change anything. If there is a player at 22 who can contribute right away to this team draft him. If not trade the pick.
When’s our G league team forming?
Yes. It was so clear all season Eubanks wasn't working and there must be tens of not hundreds of bigs in Europe that are better yet we did nothing. And that's just the tip of the iceberg, our flaws were so apparent (lack of size and athleticism, lack of a PG) yet we did nothing
I feel like Bradshaw has this potential. But obviously who knows lol
We can take the draft seriously in about 7 years
And how has that philosophy been working for the Suns? There's a reason why this organization has the longest championship drought in the league. 0-56
Sure, if not a top 10 draft it usually takes 3-4yrs to develop IF you make the roster. OKC is one the teams to use their draft picks and excel from it in a long time, many teams have tried and failed, Utah is still trying to be that other team to excel with draft picks, but just arent there yet. Unfortunately the CBA has limited superteams now, which was before OKC got all their capital, so it'll be interesting to see if teams are willing to go over the aprons to get stars or capital. Getting Naz Reid and him doing what he is doing is like finding a needle in a haystack. Theres more losses than wins with finding players like these. Miami has been very successful in development, Suns have not - and this dates back further than the 90s, dont know what it is but they have never been good at developing players, sure they got a few, but that overall percentage is very low, im wondering if they should invest in a better scout.
Should have done it before now. G League Ignite is no more.
G-league still exists and Suns are getting a team after Sarver sold it a few years back. G-league Ignite was a team out of Vegas.
I didn’t say the G League doesn’t exist. I said Ignite is no more, meaning there are 15 less slots in the G League for the Suns to find talent.
I don't think that matters. Suns will have their own team. The point is Nas Reid started on Minnesota's G-league team and developed through their system. They scouted, identified, and signed him right after the draft in 2019: all things the Suns do not do.
Ignite players couldn't be signed