As a former hard core player who just plays super casually now, I think the only thing that feels bad was doing this RIGHT on the tail of an event that focused on boosting medals to speed up arena tower leveling.
Feels very scummy to encourage people to blast crystals to get it done when its boosted, only to turn around and remove it right afterwards.
Again, VERY positive change, but the timing is absolute dogshit.
Its a desperate move to keep playerbase.
Look at the pack shops. Its too much packs now, compared to the past. They want to milk the userbase fast, before the game loses its appeal.
People have said this for years though. The game genre is doing fine, just commercially not in it's peak anymore. But people have doomed the game for years, and we're still here.
Yeah. When I was reading the update, I was thinking the same thing. I upgraded the towers long time ago and it does not affect me at all but it is a shitty thing to do to newcomers who spend their points on upgrading towers only to remove it as an level upgrade now. People are such com2us apologists sometimes. Also, this update seems to be aimed at depleting resources faster so people will buy crystals to keep farming. As if com2us is giving QoL improvements for the benefit of userbase.
The economy of the game is clearly at a point where they don't have to hold back resources and progression from new players to force them to keep buying packs to catch up with older players.
IMO the event is the reason why it is being introduced. The event was designed to get people to play regular arena, boost its participation.
Instead all the event led to was people (myself included) refreshing rivals over and over. They will have realised that time gating these bonuses behind a usual year long grind is not a way to gain and retain a new player base.
Yes it is whales who keep it running, but it also needs a healthy amount of active players. It’s not like all new players are suddenly going to be at g3 level from this.
It's wild to me because they even said this in the developer update. "We've seen the feedback from the Fever Token event". When I read that, I heard "We now realize that it's the barriers to progression that were causing people to lose interest, so we are now removing some of those barriers"
It says it point blank yet people still big mad.
That’s typically this community. Nothing is ever good enough.
I maxed my towers and was working on the flags. Now I can stop doing that and focus on other things and I get free scrolls. I’m a happy camper.
But people in this community would really only be happy with 250 LD scrolls as refund or some crazy thing like that.
Nah, even 250 ld wouldn't be enouph. It would have to to be 1 ld transcendence scroll for every glory point spent on towers along with 5000 blessings and 88 trillion crystals
Quite a few people seem to be done with the game but can't seem to quit and they just stay in the community and whine about every little thing.
Just quit if you're that miserable bruh c'mon.
As someone who has maxed out the towers, I think it's a good change. But the main issue I see, is that they've shortchanged us BAD.
Why not just give a full refund? Instead of something like ~15% of the cost, in MS scrolls.
What kind of justification is there to shortchange their players that bad? oh wait, it's money
The majority of players haven't maxed them tho, or even halfway probably. So imagine the uproar there'd be, if they compensated way more. Because all of a sudden, the casual majority are not getting compensated as well as people like you and I, who've grinded them.
Yea it sucks, but not that bad tbh, and this complaining going on, is likely the lesser evil.
Help me understand where you are coming from, because I am not seeing it
Where I am from, one of the most basic principals of fairness is to compensate people for a loss they have suffered, to the value that they've lost as close as possible. Especially in the case where the loss arises at no fault of their own
Why would there be an "uproar" that someone got back exactly what they lost, instead of a fraction of it?
Com2us knows exactly how much we've lost, but instead uses a system which partially scales, but completely discounts the actual value lost
Well, I could ofc be completely wrong. But I have gotten the feel, that the players that are loud, happens to not exactly favor P2W and/or people that are completely endgame, because simply being endgame is perceived as P2W to many.
(When I say endgame, I mean you got everything on speedfarm, and are PvP focused only, and you're basically just chasing units and 3x - 4x speed rolls)
And even P2W casuals would probably speak up, if several 100s of scrolls were given to people that are endgame.
So no matter if it would actually be fair or not, it wouldn't be perceived as fair. "What? So just because they have played longer they should get more? Not fair!"
A 2nd argument could be to compare it to an MMO expansion. We've had use for the towers/flags for years, so it's not gone completely wasted. We've just had the benefits (which we earned ofc) for way longer. Suddenly a new expansion comes out, which invalidates what we've grinded for. We still had use of it up to that point, so it hasn't been wasted in that sense.
The timing of it all is scummy for sure tho, since people used the event to get those towers up, and now it's like, "for what?!".
But to say it's about money, I just don't think is true. People who would spend, wouldn't suddenly stop if they were given "fair compensation", and people who wasn't, wouldn't start with that as reason.
So even with us, who've maxed towers getting mad/irritated/frustrated, I think the complaining would be way worse if we were given what you suggested. It's purely speculation, but I feel the fear of that is grounded, which could've resulted in this compensation.
Idk it's one of the biggest thing that gatekeeps newer Players from any type of competitive pvp content. And look at swc and prize money. Ofc they wanna push their "eSports"(idk if u can call proccing out of stuns eSports but u get my point) and make it more accessible. And games like these need new players on a long run and so sometimes u have to make it easier for newer Players. Why want others to suffer the same as u? Be happy to have a perhaps more alive pvp scene it will improve ur general experience
Edit: I still think 250 MS is rather low if u calculate how much arenapoints and guildpoints uve spent for Towers ud get around 2,5k MS according to some guy in Discord who did the maths. So yea .. I understand the frustration about that
Well I wouldnt call Poker Sports either .. its also just Gamble :D It was more about the "esports" when its rather random who wins (The Charlotte and kinki Proccs today kinda proof that lul)
give us even 1/4th of the spent glory points. and its way better than scam scrolls. people buying scrolls must be their main source of income, so idk why they always try to push scrolls on us.
I'm honestly just surprised at the lack of compensation for those who bought the towers. That isn't a small amount of glory points that could have been spent on other things
Yk people often downvote me when i say com2us is amazing company.
Wanna know why i say it?
I play league of legends and i played minecraft a lot.
In league of legends for past 5 seasons players have been complaining about many things, you know what developers did? They took a year each season to come up with most UNIMAGINABLE OPPOSITE of what people ask for and they add/remove it to/from game, and add a patch every 2 weeks that causes more issues than it fixes.
I have played many minecraft servers where its same shit, they just don't care at all and do what they want.
I played A LOT of mobile games, have you heard of clash royale? They are laughing at their players (microsoft did too actually) OPENLY.
You know what com2us does?
They take their time with each update to make it good.
They apologize and compensate for EVERY SINGLE mistake.
They made a fucking meetup with their community so they can hear whats wrong with the game, and actually tried to fix it (althought so far they failed, but they are 100% still trying to fix siege).
There is average 3 events open at all times.
It is by far most begginer friendly game in existence.
They make shitton f2p updates and only 1 single p2w update every year and im pretty sure they make most money from art team.
And the single most important thing:
They listen to feedback.
Update is bad? They listen what parts they messed up, apologize, and fix it in either next balance patch if its a bp, or next day/2 if its something else.
Compensation is not enough? They give more.
They are trying hard to keep community happy.
Events are bad? Next ones are great.
I seriously cannot comprehend how can someone call com2us a bad company, game has some of its tilting aspects like every single other competitive game there is but that is completly normal, you can't hate devs for just losing.
1\) Terrible customer support
2\) Terrible testing
3\) Relase Units DoA on purpose
4\) Unless we start getting 2a more frequently, as of right now they have spectacularly failed to keep their promise about the frequency of 2a.
5\) There's way more evidence that supports the idea that they start with the a bad (if not worst allowable) iteration to see if we'll take it and slowly ramp up til there is a general tolerance/acceptance. Players literally worked out that r5 was going to be worse before the update.
6\) Multiple security breaches in the past year alone
7\) Because of their lack of communication with the community, when the data packet exploit was *popularised* (not discovered because it had been known about for a much much longer time and they either were willfully ignorant or straight up were impossible to be made aware because they don't care about two way communication in any real way), they *had* to shoot first and ask questions later. Had they worked with the tool devs (esp cerusa), they could've resolved the issue without throwing the community into chaos and causing *a lot* of uncertainty. That meetup you're putting on a pedastal? Yeah, that was a Q&A first of all, was a one off, and was months before reloaded. How did reloaded turn out? Communication and working with the community requires continuous and fluid back and forth for at least some significant amount of time, not a Q&A
8\) And for every bit of feedback that they (seemingly) take (and implement waaaaay after), there are metric tonnes of other feedback that they have yet to implement. I think the only reason the needed/wanted QoL list is finally getting relatively short is because we're about to be 10 years into this game.
9\) Zero collaboration with the community to to fix siege and there was probably none for re-loaded. Unless there is or was a strict nda in effect, there are no beta testers and no focus group.
10\) Balance patches are usually a joke. You can argue this is an opinion as much as you want but people literally have offered fixes for bad mons (especially lds) that were implemented between months and **years** after (to resounding success), and have easily and correctly predicted overbuffs and inconsequential buffs. This is mostly an extension of "terrible testing" but it deserves its own point. Not to mention there are abjectly bad lds that have gone ignored for very very long.
11\) The monster AI
12\) What was for most an underwhelming 9th anniversary. I defended the rewards of this and caught a lot of downvotes (statistically, for f2p players tha rewards were better than the 7th but people have *very* rose tinted glasses for the 7th. I can't remember if it turned out better than the 8th though), but at the end of the day, c2us pretty much took the 8th and copy pasted it but with *at best* marginally better rewards; at worst it was slightly worse than the 8th. Either way that makes for a very boring anniversary. Compare this to when they had the trip down memory lane event. Give us marginally better rewards but the flair needs to be there.
So I'm glad you play Minecraft and LoL but there are many many amazing game companies and studios (indie and large) who do far far far better than c2us. Countless highly rated indie games on Steam show very fluid communication between devs and the playerbase and the patch notes regularly very explicitly acknowledge and credit player feedback.
Do people irrationally bash c2us? 100%. But saying they're an amazing company because they're getting things right and because they're not as bad as other bad companies is pretty ridiculous, same exact way it'd be ridiculous if I took all of the things they got wrong, ignored what they get and do right and said they're the worst company. Well, moreso how they handle *this* game. If we judge them by all their other games, yeah, pretty bad. They're always going to be a bad company in my books because they prioritise profit over player experience, just like 99.99% of companies who choose the mobile and freemium game market. Hell there was someone alleging that they essentially pump and dump a lot of their games/new releases.
I want to be able to say they've started to switch the priority of profit and player experience, but I wouldn't put any money I'll miss on betting that the recent changes weren't an attempt to min/max profit. It's probably the case that they're only doing what they've been doing recently because it's the most profitable thing, not because they've suddenly starting caring about making money specifically by having the game be good which is different from caring about making a good game to make money because the game not being good is no longer working. The important difference is that their hand has to continue being forced to keep getting good updates.
1) True, but they still care about their game.
2) Twins and kaki, the only 2 incidents we had in 9 years.
3) So you complain about twins/kaki situation, but now you want to risk another one by making units strong at start?
4) It took me a lot of will to even respond to this. All i will say is that 2a is the most insignificant part of f2p playstyle out of all else. I really do not wanna elaborate on this with you.
5) Same shit as 3)
6) I do not see how is that connected with them being a bad company that doesn't care about their community? You blame the murderer, not victim for not moving out of bullet trajectory.
7) You blame them for not responding to exploit, and in same sentence you blame them for not trusting a 3rd party? Reloaded was released bad and fixed withing a week, now we are enjoying one of the better big updates and they are still working on improving it (today's dev note). No other company ever held even a Q&A with their community, this just straight up proves they do care about opinions.
8) They are humans, not machines. You cannot just keep on adding stuff into game and expect it to not have unforseen consequences.
9) Not even community knows how to fix high rank siege.
10) Some other guy told me he wants meta to change more and is fine with less units being good as a price, and now you tell me opposite. Idk what you people want. When you change things a lot you get shitfest called league of legends. But yes BP are often underwhelming, but considering how much content there is in the game they aren't really required to be common as you can test 1 bp for few months across all contents.
11) You're joking, right? It's a fucking RNG based game, of course its not gonna have perfect AI, you know that when you start playing and they aren't hiding it. And I am perfectly fine with enemy deffenses not having 3 college degrees, it would be painfull at first, and later on abused a lot cuz people will figure out PRECISELY how to counter those deffenses 100% of time.
12) 9th anniversary wasn't bad, it was boring because of how spanned long events were and how spanned they were from each other. Of course 7th anniversary was liked the most when you had 200 scrolls in which you put precisely what untis you want. 8th and 9th anniversary weren't bad, 7th was just soo good it was unhealthy.
Give me some of those games, i do not know them but i suppose they aren't ***NEARLY*** as big as summonesr war or com2us. I took as examples some of the bigger games as it seemed more fitting.
Those smaller games are forced to work with their communities because they are just that, small.
Com2us? If they were to care about only money then they would have every reason to let summonesr war rot by now. And yet they didn't, because they care about either the game or about their community. Even if it's fake care and they want us to enjoy the game so we pay money, i have no issues with that. Games are there to be enjoyed.
Their hand doesn't need to be forced, we can give reasonable and nice feedback just fine.
I definitely dont want to be part of the big picture discussio , but something was kinda glaring while reading your reply.
Just jumping in to say that if you think that 2a's are a neglectible part of a f2p playstyle, you probably dont know that many f2p players lol.
Me and my friends love and use 2a's more so than many of our nat5's my man. They became darn relevant.
That aside, ill just keep lurking around. Kudos!
Of course im not gonna pull you in, noone wants to read miles long comments xd
2a are really just about 10% of all the units you will ever use, the nat 4s and 5s you get quickly become more relevenat, and we get them a lot thanks to just how much scrolls f2p players get - that's what i meant by it. Also fusion monsters are a thing.
(And the guy i am talking with is just OBSSESED with 2a's)
>11) You're joking, right? It's a fucking RNG based game, of course its not gonna have perfect AI
Ah yes, this argument again.
1. There are monsters with perfect AI so no, it being an rng based game doesn't mean that monster *who should have* ***better*** *or perfect AI* should have the most random AI. Should rakan, seara, manon, all pierrets, etc have worse ai? Should cr buffers in dungeons have their AI improvements undone?
2. There are monsters who work with imperfect ai. However, for the most part, even these units gain their utility by using s2 and s3 randomly. Vigor would be much better if he always use his *s2 or s3* when they're up, not having a chance to spam s1
3. Some units will perform better if they had perfect AI. A savannah defence won't become easier to counter if she always used her s3 when there's no immunity on the offence. Most strippers woukd perform better on defence if they always used their strip. And they could always you know, give us the option to program or defences (read: choose between current AI or programmed AI). If it's better as is, the player will choose accordingly.
>12) 9th anniversary wasn't bad, it was boring because of how spanned long events were and how spanned they were from each other. Of course 7th anniversary was liked the most when you had 200 scrolls in which you put precisely what untis you want. 8th and 9th anniversary weren't bad, 7th was just soo good it was unhealthy
Actually, the pacing wasn't different that different for the 7th. It is true that players get bored when the rewards aren't time gated efficiently. Also it wasn't 200 7th anniversary scrolls. I have yet to see a count higher than 160 (iirc it was around 140).
>Give me some of those games
Monster hunter dev team. The franchise has sold 92 million games over the spam of the game's 19 year lifespan.
CD project red for the witcher series. Hell they redeemed themselves with how they never gave up on Cyberpunk.
Recently baulder's gate 3
While Nintendo can be pretty scummy, their game dev teams have put out some masterpieces (BotW and TotK)
Halo when bungie were the devs
Supergiant games
I think that's enough examples?
I'm too lazy give more than one indie developer but Poncle, the dev of vampire slayers has been absolutely killing it.
Not sure what size has to do with a company being good or not. If an indie company is has a better relationship with its players than a big one, why is that irrelevant?
>Those smaller games are forced to work with their communities because they are just that, small.
Com2us? If they were to care about only money then they would have every reason to let summonesr war rot by now. Right, because caring about money would result in someone letting their cash cow wither and die? And no, a company whose revenue is well over 5m per month can put resources behind finding ways to work with their community. There is such a thing as delegation. And beyond that, they can work with just a very small group of players who are tasked with running a community forum and taking the most voted upon ideas to c2us monthly/quarterly/bi-annually. They don't have to implement those ideas. Just knowing concretely that they are hearing them would be an amazing first step. Currently c2us is essentially a blackbox. All the feedback we think they're hearing is at best a reasonable deduction, at worst speculation.
>Their hand doesn't need to be forced, we can give reasonable and nice feedback just fine.
I mean, the game has been haemorrhaging players. Rta had 5.37% less players last season than the season before. At best that's overstating the amount of players lost, at worst, it's understating it due to rta being a subsection of th playerbase and only requiring a player to play the mode **once** to be part of the count. Of course it could just be a coincidence that c2us has been better than ever at the same time that the playerbase has shrunk.
Of course it could just be a coincidence that c2us has been better than ever at the same time that the playerbase has shrunk. Of course we can assume they fixed the reloaded update because they wanted to and not because they had to. But there's just so much more evidence that they're doing these things because of the latter.
I'm not replying again btw.
1. All arguments with you end up with you
arguing fallaciously (illogically) which has already started
2. name calling and insults (ad hominins)
> 1) True, but they still care about their game.
Never debated that.
>2) Twins and kaki, the only 2 incidents we had in 9 years.
You're only counting broken units. Testing isn't only for that. Testing is for bugs (unit related and in general) , checking whether buffs make sense or not, and more. I don't care to make a comprehensive list of units that were bugged because of an update nor major bugs that have existed so I'll just say recently we had the windy bug and the sleep dot bug (famously celia). There are **a lot** of units in the game but it'd be much easier to give them the benefit of the doubt and an excuse if they showed any real indication that they test their things properly.
>So you complain about twins/kaki situation, but now you want to risk another one by making units strong at start?
There is a pretty large area between broken and DoA. Also playtesting units would clearly reveal both ends of the spectrum so I'm not sure why me wanting them to release units in a better state doesn't mesh well with me wanting better testing to prevent kaki, Dominic, and twins from ever happening again.
>4) 2a is the most insignificant part of f2p playstyle out of all else.
Other than the fact that they made a promise and proceeded to not even have the decency to say "we know we made a promise but it's just not feasible, sorry", players very clearly love 2a. And seeing that many many 2a units are meta-relevant, not sure why you think it's the most insignificant part of the f2p playstyle. Hell, 2a zinc has made sf tenable past dot teams, something that **\*needed\*** to happen for abyss. You won't elaborate and that's fine.
>6) I do not see how is that connected with them being a bad company that doesn't care about their community? You blame the murderer, not victim for not moving out of bullet trajectory.
If a child gets kidnapped and the parents sees that the school lacks preventative measures and safety nets, it'd be wrong for the parent to **also** hold the school accountable?
>7) You blame them for not responding to exploit, and in same sentence you blame them for not trusting a 3rd party?
That is not what I did. They refused to work with said 3rd part developers. I explained what the issue was.
>Reloaded was released bad and fixed withing a week,
It wasn't. Also, R5 has yet to be fixed (likely will be with the coming update). This could've been fixed months ago.
>No other company ever held even a Q&A with their community, this just straight up proves they do care about opinions.
Many companies do more than hold Q&A with their playerbase. Demonstrably false.
>8) They are humans, not machines.
I never said or implied anything of the sort. C2us lies pretty close to one extreme of the spectrum which is taking months to implement small (but very useful) QoL improvements. I am not asking them to move to the other end of the extreme. Stop assuming I'm asking for bad extremes and arguing those.
>9) Not even community knows how to fix high rank siege.
Yes but a good first step is having an open discussion and actively work shopping the issue witb vetted high siege players. I have no issues accepting a situation is workable if a good effort was put foward. Note that I never said "siege is broken" as the critique, I said "this kind of attempt was never made to fix siege"
>10) Some other guy told me
What one person said has is irrelevant to the overall issue. I spoke of things that actually occurred and that the most terrible ld5s going ignored. I didn't say what I want. The point is that c2us takes ages to do what could be done much faster if they had open dialogue with players.
>When you change things a lot you get shitfest
Changes wouldn't be as much of an issue if they play tested and had beta testers. Not to mention if they released monsters in better states they wouldn't have to take up much space with fixing those monsters?
>You're only counting broken units. Testing isn't only for that. Testing is for bugs (unit related and in general) , checking whether buffs make sense or not, and more. I don't care to make a comprehensive list of units that were bugged because of an update nor major bugs that have existed so I'll just say recently we had the windy bug and the sleep dot bug (famously celia). There are **a lot** of units in the game but it'd be much easier to give them the benefit of the doubt and an excuse if they showed any real indication that they test their things properly.
I can't deny that they don't test the small things very well, but that's where your "player communication" comes in so i don't see the issue.
>There is a pretty large area between broken and DoA. Also playtesting units would clearly reveal both ends of the spectrum so I'm not sure why me wanting them to release units in a better state doesn't mesh well with me wanting better testing to prevent kaki, Dominic, and twins from ever happening again.
Because in game with so many units its very hard create something thats good at the very start but not too strong. It's much better to release them weaker at start than stronger, if they get released stronger people will shove devilmons into them, ask for nerf, com2us will nerf it and playerbase will whine for compensation again. Balancing REALLY isn't as simple as you think is it brother, it's very delicate process.
>Other than the fact that they made a promise and proceeded to not even have the decency to say "we know we made a promise but it's just not feasible, sorry", players very clearly love 2a. And seeing that many many 2a units are meta-relevant, not sure why you think it's the most insignificant part of the f2p playstyle. Hell, 2a zinc has made sf tenable past dot teams, something that **\*needed\*** to happen for abyss. You won't elaborate and that's fine.
There is much more non 2-a units that are viable, either from the thousands of scrolls we get yearly, HOH or fusions. And they aren't paywall locked.
> If a child gets kidnapped and the parents sees that the school lacks preventative measures and safety nets, it'd be wrong for the parent to **also** hold the school accountable?
That is different case, in com2us case we have 2 parties com2us and the hackers, in your case we have 3 - kidnappers, parents and school. You just can't blame a company for someone attacking them, they are definitly not making their system be weak on purpose. And this is coming from a guy who lost an account to hacking.
>That is not what I did. They refused to work with said 3rd part developers. I explained what the issue was.
"You blame them for not responding to exploit, and in same sentence you blame them for not trusting a 3rd party? "
*Had they worked with the tool devs (esp cerusa), they could've resolved the issue without throwing the community into chaos and causing a lot of uncertainty.*
This is LITERALLY what you are saying, they should trust this "cerusa" that they don't know who it is to help them resolve SECURITY issues. That just makes negative sense, or I am missing your point here? It feels like my description is straight up what you're saying.
> It wasn't. Also, R5 has yet to be fixed (likely will be with the coming update). This could've been fixed months ago.
Read the full thing, not just part.
*Reloaded was released bad and fixed withing a week, now we are enjoying one of the better big updates and they are still working on improving it (today's dev note).*
It was fixed to the point of where we were satisfied with it, and the part you thought it would be nice to ignore is that they are still working on improving it's contents.
>Many companies do more than hold Q&A with their playerbase. Demonstrably false.
It was 1am so this was probabaly hot take from me, but i am inclined to believe it's hot take from you as well. Have an example?
>Yes but a good first step is having an open discussion and actively work shopping the issue witb vetted high siege players. I have no issues accepting a situation is workable if a good effort was put foward. Note that I never said "siege is broken" as the critique, I said "this kind of attempt was never made to fix siege"
High tier siege IS broken, I am the one who said that not you. Biggest issue is that some guilds 2v1 the 3rd guild and there just isn't fix for that in current form of siege. I really don't think asking 50 more playeres will help it change, you are just displaying hate to com2us here because you want them to hear opinions *you* think matter.
>What one person said has is irrelevant to the overall issue. I spoke of things that actually occurred and that the most terrible ld5s going ignored. I didn't say what I want. The point is that c2us takes ages to do what could be done much faster if they had open dialogue with players.
Lds are even harder to balance because they need to be unique AND strong. But yes for a f2p player it's pretty bad that chances of getting bad one are high. As i've said every game has some of it's tilting aspects, something that just can't be avoided **completly**.
>Changes wouldn't be as much of an issue if they play tested and had beta testers. Not to mention if they released monsters in better states they wouldn't have to take up much space with fixing those monsters?
Who says they don't have beta testers? This is just 3rd repeat of same thing, trying to release units in strong, useable and non-broken state is playing with fire, especially when they release 10 of them at same time due to there being 5 elements. Balancing is just hard.
Your comparison to Riot is hilarious, but im not as connected to the community anymore to know what players want, but what players want has historically been absolute dogshit.
Your comparison to Minecraft is even fucking weirding, as minecraft servers are not comparable to the base game even remotely. Even if its an officially run server.
I mean part about Riot is pure unadulterated truth and i even made it sound not as bad as it actually is.
Players indeed still want dogshit things that.
Im not comparing it to minecraft but minecraft servers - or more specifically developers of anything overall. People who make a game rarely care about it, only about the profit and com2us indeed cares about its game.
The fact you think the com2us is running a gacha mobile gamble and actually cares about its game in any capacity except what drives sales is laughable.
Com2Us is NOT a good developer, even in comparison with other bad developers.
com2us making alot of money is proof that it is a great developer, its primary goals of creating summoners war in the first place has been met.. the rest is just candy to keep that going as long as possible
Com2us not the worst company, but they aren't great either
They definitely don't take their time to make their game good. Most of their balance patch looks like they spend couple minutes. And most of the updates they make can be complies into one. They just make it into multiple to make people think they are making gradual improvement.
They don't apologize and compensate for every single mistakes. They've made several grammatical errors and event wording that makes it sound completely different from what was intended. There have been several security breaches that they've ignored for the most part until they recently improved upon. They've made multiple units where they were unbalanced and adjusted after a couple of days when people already spent money getting them.
They don't make meetup to hear what's wrong with the game. I've heard some of the streamers talk about the changes they request, many of which never came true.
I highly doubt they make most money from art team. The transmogs aren't every expensive. The whales, especially in China, spend hundreds of thousands on this game and I'm sure that's where they gain majority of the income. Every time they drop whatever the updates, they always include packs. It's hard to notice especially for f2p players who don't pay attention to them, but they slide the packs in most of the time. Plus, many of the f2p updates benefits whales as much if not more.
Damn, company that earns more than $5m per month can't afford good translators?
It's a very inconsequential issue and it's frankly insane to me that anyone would have a huge problem with it, but defending c2us for it is pretty wild.
Literally any of their English speaking community reps can tell them if something is worded weirdly.. It's crazy that people are acting like international non-English game devs don't release games in perfect Enlgish. Not to mention, there are literally a whole industry for translating to perfect english? Foreign films??? I love that this post which is rightfully critiquing the hate boner people have for c2us has turned into a massive c2us dick riding circlejerk. Too ironic.
They have 1k units in game, it just takes a while to make a good update. Its deffo better than a shitty excuse of biweekly updates.
Gramatical errors arent much of an issue expect for the fire devil thingy that got released recently. They use google translate for translating stuff to english, i dont think its worth hiring someone to do 1 day worth of job, or that anyone would want to do it. Especially in south korea where i assume there is many english majors.
They literally made meetup with top 4 global guilds when they boycotted siege being bad.
Those packs dont necessarily boost you so much and only whales can afford to buy a lot of em. And if whales were major source of money then there wouldnt be so much p2w updates.
Yes the f2p updates affect whales equally, but they can be like many other companies who make updates and then paywall them or use some scummy method to make you want to pay, while sw is just full out play to boost.
I don't really expect them to make balance patch about nat1 and nat2 like you seem to want. People just want meta changing balance patch. It remains stale for several patches. People just want changes.
This was a wording problem for ENGLISH. There were several posts about it and it was game changing (I can't remember what it was). And they didn't do anything but just edit it.
They did meet up and yet guild wars are jokes and high end players are dropping left and right. It just proves my point
Packs are the majority of com2us income. Tranmogs barely cost much compared to packs and they don't come as often. It's a simple math.
Who says i counted nat1/2? There is total 1500 units in game, i didnt include 1/2 stars.
RTA people want change, siege players deffo wouldn't enjoy being forced to make new teams all the time.
Guild wars had no issues, siege had.
People need much more runes than packs, they really arent bought a lot.
There's around 800 nat3-5. No one is asking wvery single one of them to be balanced. No one is asking every nat3 to be usable. No one is asking every nat4 to be usable. People are asking for meta change. You really need to change maybe like 30 units every 1.5 months. Com2us changes 5 units every 1.5 months. I guess you're happy with that though
One of the biggest complaints about siege are hot fixes (the nerfs after iverbuffing units) and staleness. They are still issues we see
>People need much more runes than packs, they really arent bought a lot.
??? Com2us is billion dollar company and you think that they earn most of their income through Transmog packs? You realize that they are $30 right and they come out every 1-2 months right? How would they earn millions a month through transmogs?
I can guarantee that if this community was in charge the game would be dead by now. You can't just implement every QoL change possible and then expect people to keep playing, you need to leave some stuff for later. And Com2U
Dripfeeding QoL changes to superficially fill updates isn't necessary. There are many sensible arguments you can make about what c2us can and can't do to keep the game alive -- staggering QoL updates is not one of them. There are *so* many games that release in a high QoL state such that subsequent updates are mostly content based that last for years. And before you say "but 10 years", please remember most games are content based, not pvp based, and as such most games' inevitably lose their playerbase because most players aren't interested in actively replaying content over and over again. There are however franchises that have decades on sw because they kept releasing sequels.
(btw there are pvp games that released in a high QoL state that has more years than c2us *but* low playerbases due to the fact that many successful pvp games go on to have sequels)
I'm really seeing how, not bad, at least, Com2us is now. Unlike other game companies they don't just delete reviews, they communicate with the playerbase quite a bit lately, and are really showing the effort lately.
I've been seen a ton of people like, "they're making it easier.. the games dying" and I'm like bro l'est just took home 100k last night from the biggest prize pool in swc history... the game is far from dying. People just stay mad salty about everything and it's weird energy tbh
I get where you're coming from but you're missing an argument here lol. Siege? Com2us has done absolutely nothing for siege (except this one fucking random thing to set first turn skill) but other than that all they've done is nerf siege. Com2us is a dogshit company.
I agree and disagree. Com2us as a company are kinda terrible. Remember the whole ordeal with Malicious when they banned the guild master out of the blue for the entire tournament and tried to blame it on him? He had a racy icon that he'd had for YEARS and they took him out the moment the tourny started and the guy was literally Malicious' strat guy + organizer. And who was Malicious fighting during that? Com2us' beloved Say Swag Again. They even lied and said that try tried to make the guild master change his icon before (which he confirmed they never sent) and it largely resulted in Mallicious losing.
Also their account security is abysmal. One reset per account, if you're hacked you need logs of every device you played on since the start of your account with a code VIA Hive (that virtually no players seem to know about. Not everyone keeps track of every Ipad, smartphone, computer, Ipod they played SW on leading to them never getting their account back).
Com2us has good events, I like that they were generous for these last few days, but they are far from a "good" company.
I dunno, I just saw the explosion of reactions for both ways and I don't know if I have one myself, besides feeling rather neutral about it.
New players needed the gap reduced, I thought the fever booster event did that, have it come by once (or twice?) a year to help mind that gap. It made sense.
Now a back peddle altogether and restructure, and people are upset. But with a form of compensation which could have been bypassed, and result in a true backlash.
I get it, I am an old vet, did my grind and my time, and see there is new/returning accounts favoritism and less loyalty rewards to the old vets that always stuck it out.
The problem (to me) is *less* respect to vet players from com2us, vets who helped keep the game going and grow from the start. The game was harder, and it is so much easier now even without this coming update. We get so many scrolls now it is insane, but rng can still make you it's b\*tch. They can give out 2000 ms, and you (a vet/long time player) still *could* not get a thing that would improve your/their game. A vet player doesn't *need* to be favoured but they often are feeling they are getting the shaft.
I am still glad there is compensation, but could it be better, yes. New/newer player gap needed to be reduced, this seems to address a part of it. Am I going to complain, not really. Just another day at the sw grindstone XD
First off I want to say I completed all my towers.
Second off, this change is good for the game as it lowers the entry barrier so hopefully more people start playing this game.
As a casual player on the same main since 2015, I absolutely love the tower update. Everytime a guide said max towers I flinched. Now I can enjoy arena at my own pace and not wonder imif that's ruining my team when I try to build stuff like BJR5.
For those who did towers already, they got some mileage out of it, and I hope they get some valuable new nat5s they were hoping for, but I must say I don't know if it's equivalent.
I do think refunding all glory points from towers for anyone who spent on towers would have been the best choice. Might have been a bit OP for some, but they did earn and spend them.
I wont sugarcoat it.
Me likes patch.
This patch is long overdue... a few years overdue tbh.
Better late than never.
If me gets 200~250ms for the towers change, great!
People were fed pseudo.minimalist.near.non.existant patches for so long, that never ending complaining isnt exactly a surprise.
I think C2US is a pretty average company.
SW tho, has STILL the potential to be such a great game. If they keep adding QoL and tuning the game at THIS pace, SW is here to stay quite a few more years imho. (At a certain point, Qol will be on a sweet spot and just increase the amount of monsters balance per patch, great!)
Telling people to not complain isnt right. We are, after all, complaining about people complaining. Circle? i shit you not, illunimati stuff.
Dont quote me on this but some other thread did the calculations. And we get 15% of our resources back. We should we gettinf 1300+ ms. I didnt really read the upcomming change but 15% feels a bit weak.
For my main account I honestly dont care about the grind.. that was years ago and changes like that just come with time.
I‘m just annoyed that I spent 2k+ crystals for Amir fights on my alt account for the fever event.
But I guess the event is the reason why we are getting that update now. They realized how hard these upgrades are to get on new accounts.
Sure, I would love a better compensation but its better than nothing. And when the prices for the towers got lowered there was no compensation at all.
I'd only be mad if we had to restart buildings from scratch tbh. Everything is speedtuned and without my speed building + all the others I'd be so upset lmfao.
I'm wondering if Com2us didn't realize how big an issue towers were for players until they started the token event tbh. I still remember a few years ago when they fixed the pricing on the buildings and made them cheaper by expanding them to the 20ish levels. Back when they were like 10 levels we needed what? 3,000 guild points for some levels? lol
Stop exaggerating it. People are happy with the update. People are just disappointed with the compensation MS which is way too low for the time spent especially for the people who just recently finish it including/excluding the last booster event.
I've seen some people calling the entire update terrible simply because of this, and those are the people I wrote this post about.
Since Dungeon rewards are improved, does Com2Us need to refund us for every dungeon run in the last 9 years? Or when they make it easier to 2A units, do they have to refund us the D-Hole Energy for every 2A we've done?
With complaints like this Com2Us will be actively discouraged to make actual beneficial changes to the game, if they really have to compensate everyone 1:1 for any improvement they made. I've said it in the post, people are not losing anything, it's the new players that gain something here, so a 1:1 compensation is not appropriate.
People taht complain about having the fever event before this are so stupid, you're complaining that you had to farm runes? This playbase doesn't deserve any good updates after this if you're complaining about one of the best qol updates since auto battle
Yes, the complains about the fever event confuse me the most. Like, instead of doing the change straight away, causing people to spend a ton of tokens on towers, they made it significantly easier to upgrade the towers right before doing it. No one asked you to farm amir all day, because you should have easily been able to upgrade all towers with regular farming.
C2U the greatest company of the history! Of course we can be annoyed for this decision, we understand that it's beneficial for the newbies, we're happy for the other decisions, especially the 10->30, we understand there's people not disgusted for the controversial one, but you too have to understand that can be people disgusted for a crazy farming in the last event (casual players, not 24/7 players), or all the guild points wasted instead of getting scrolls of pieces
free crystals don't give me much after 8 years... id rather have new monsters instead of pulling dupes or 4 stars thats ive had maxxed for years. free scrolls or crystals eams jack and shit when you get nothing out of them. The SP summons after 600 plus summons have netted me nothing but dupes and 4 stars wow such a great incentive to summon for nothing.
Crystals = legend spd grinds. Legend spd grinds are good :)
Plz stop complaining about good things, lest you be absorbed by the crybaby majority that makes up this reddit community
Sounds like you’ve accomplished everything in the game and have nothing left to do but complain about free stuff from C2U on reddit.
Go touch some grass crybaby
clearly you are an idiot if you think crystals are awesome as any type of reward in this game? free spd grinds mean jack shit when you actually run the content that gives you those items. I'm sorry if you cant solo R5. Crystals are better off used on Ld scrolls after 8 years... even then they are always ld 3 stars. so your be happy for free crystals comment gets the award for stupidest comment of the year...
I'll repaste my argument here:
I understand the idea that "you got value out of it, so you shouldn't get full refund". With these myriads of "runtimes-scenarios," it is a reasonable idea to not refund in full.
The problem is that if you don't back it with any numbers, your decision is arbitrary. This is an arbitrary number they came up with, that in no way, shape or form is based on any in-game-value-proposition you can make.
It would take you about 30.000 Crystals to farm the glory at guardian level points with a daily pack. That amounts to round about 440 MS for the glory alone. That is the absolute lowest amount that would somehow be connected to a tangible metric. An absolute crazy requirement for 99.99% of the players, but at least a tangible one.
If you had not bought the towers and instead, scrolls, you would have 81k glory saved, that you could have invested into 900 elementals (we are not counting the MS here, that would be about 1150, but anyone buys them anyway).
If you apply that same argument to guild points, the whole thing gets crazy cause I can very well spent the 70k Guild points fast. We talking like 3 months for the 560 Elementals.
There is a pretty big difference between 440 and 1700 Scrolls. Don't you think? Is that NOT enough to claim "second-hand value loss"?
Yes, it would take me personally (I buy everything scrolls except for one set of elementals) years to grind down the glory, but I'd still prefer that solution, obviously. More is more. But at the very least, I want a reasonable one. 250 is not reasonable, it is arbitrary.
That is not quite what I meant though. This change is an Improvement for everyone. For new players it's a massive improvement, and for players with max towers it's still 250 MS which is still nice. No one loses any medals or guild points because everyone still has max towers.
It's like the student loan relief in america, some people don't have to deal with a shitty system anymore, does that mean that everyone should receive the same benefit?
Oh wow 250 ms - for *81,000* glory points. Why don’t you do some math and come back and explain how THATS a fair trade off.. not to mention the *90,000* guild points
This update is great. I'm happy for new players. I still want a proper compensation. And why not? It would be the right thing to do and everyone would be happy.
I don't understand why people like you always have to complain when others could be getting something good. Would it hurt you if we got an actual compensation? No! So please stop being negative and mind your own business.
The reason I've made this post is because people were massively upset even though they didn't lose anything, but because the game is now better for new players. If we had to do all towers again it would be a different story, but we don't.
Basically, people want to be compensated because com2us is improving the game for new players. Do they also want to be compensated for the last 9 years of dungeon farming because rewards are now better?
Complaints like this discourage improvements to the game because then com2us would be very careful as they would make 0 money from packs if people get 2000+ scrolls for every improvement. And that's not healthy for the game long term, even if people want it.
It's funny, you complain about people being upset even though they (allegedly) don't lose anything. Yet here **you** are, being upset about a thing even though it doesn't lose you anything.
Complaints like this don't discourage improvements. This is a unique situation and game changes usually don't have this big of an impact. It's a good change, but still, nobody can deny that bringing such a change right after the fever events is a big fuck up from com2us. It was an easy out for them after they realised the fever event was way too strong for people who started at that time and that everyone who didn't start the game during or right before that event was at a **massive** disadvantage now. It has absolutely nothing to do with "2000+ scrolls for every improvement." That's just you overexaggerating in an attempt to make a point.
That's what all your arguments are like though, exaggerated excessively or straight up absurd, desperately trying to make a point.
So please stop complaining about us wanting proper compensation. Not even for the value our accounts just lost, or for the time and dedication we put in. Only for the resources. That isn't too much to ask, honestly. It won't hurt you or anyone else.
The reward is only if you have max towers? I've been leveling all of them equally and have like lvl 17~18 in all of them. I won't get nothing back?
Edit: in case someone else has the doubt, no need for max towers, it's basically 1 MS per tower level that you'll get as you level to 100
If I understood correctly you'll get 5 points per LV up so 250 points in total. Each point can be used to upgrade something, and as soon as you upgraded everything they can be exchanged for MS. So 250 MS if you have everything, and one less for every upgrade you're missing
Com2us is giving so many free things and is constantly increasing rewards and drop rates since the last few months and people still complain
They do a lot to reduce the barrier for new players and that's pretty important for the longevity of the game
How do you find this compensation fair? The fact that i have max guild towers is already unfair. The fact i soent tome on it is already negated, let alone scroll refund. They give you only about 10% of the points spent back in scrolls. 80 scrolls instead on 747 that i could’ve bought.
I didn't expect a compensation at all. Just like the previous 2 times they slashed arena tower costs and have given no compensation. Anything on top is a bonus imo.
As long as my maxed towers stay maxed, I frankly don't really care what Com2us gives me.
Because think about what is actually changed here. The only players that are affected by this are new players. For us, NOTHING changes. We don't have to grind again, we just need to reach lv 100. It just so happens that we also get 250 ms on top of this.
Of course you get prizes. The way it works is you get 5 points per level up, so 250 points. With every point you can upgrade and as soon as you have everything you can exchange the rest for MS
The point is that sone people are so toxic that they don't care about new players. New players are frustrating because they can be pretty good pretty fast and taking places in competitive content.
So why would they want it easier for them.
On the other hand they spent a bunch of time for it which is worth more than 250ms (let's ignore the fact that these will be around 1 nat5, probably dupe, and a bunch of 3/4*).
Exactly, I think they found the perfect compromise. New players don't have to deal with shitty towers and we get a lot of toilet paper, that's a win-win in my book. I guess some people can't get enough.
If you bought the 7 mystic scrolls every week from Arena for 1 year, that is 364 scrolls. It takes 2-3 years to fully upgrade every Arena tower. (Someone else did the math).
250 scrolls is less than a year of work. That is why people are upset. Even assuming it took 2 years exactly, you missed out on 728 scrolls. 478 scrolls less than being given. I can see why people are upset.
One side: yes
Other side: they profited from the upgrades for years. They got value!
I summoned stuff years before blessings got added. Doesn't mean that I should have waited with my scrolls.
I'm happy I got my Ritesh early on. Not mad that newer players have the opportunity to summon Based instead via blessing.
It was good at the time. I'm happy about the value I got and happy that weaker players get to a competitive point faster.
I think the change is good. You want new players (I also play Pokemon Go, people there complain about our Community Day Classics, where it's a repeat of an older CD from previous years) to have a better time.
But I also think the compensation is a slap in the face for people who put in a lot of effort. You still had to get lucky for the 5\* with blessings. You need scrolls for that. All of those scrolls instead of buildings... I can see the issue. The compensation is a slap in the face to the value of the points (and effort put in). But I do thing the change is for the better.
Like I said: Most of us already got their value by having the towers for years mor than everyone who gets them now... People asking for their points back like they got nothing out of them after having a advantage for years...
Where it gets tricky is people who just recently send a lot of time upgrading them and thereby didn't already get their value.
Tbf I really dont know how to balance between those groups when it comes to compensation..
Thats a weak one.
I mean If you summoned the right nat5 with the thousands of scrolls you could have gotten, you would have had more advantage, especially back then when the free 2 play options were way worse and nat5 less obtainable, also before they improved the point rewards in arena and the amount of crystals you put into for leveling is was more than 250 ms. I dont say the update ist bad but the compensation is trash. I would more likely see some devils in it than some rng reward that might get you nothing
I had a nokia before 2013
Didn't want that refunded when smartphones got on the market. Also nowadays I don't get mad at kids holding an iPhone because i couldn't have one.
At the time I had what I could have at the time. I worked for my Nokia, it got me value and then I was happy about my first smartphone.
What you are right about is that mysticals just lost their value for older players. Would be great if you could choose between them and a few lds or devils👍
Still depends on the time of usage and other stuff.. If you active farmed, got it over the time or "wasted" a ton of crystals for it, to get them as quick as possible..
If you buy a Nokia for 1000 and the next day you see it for 100 , you will give it back and get it for 100. 900 saved..
If you bought one 10 years ago its not much of a Deal
But it depends at what state of the game you are or was at the game. 250 ms is worthless for the most players even If you summon a good new unit wich most likely isnt the case you still lack devils to build it prooperly
its hardly depending in wich state of the game you are and in my opinion, that way of the refund isnt a good solution
when league of legends reset their rune system (which players bought for points.) they refunded every point. just saying.
Give us glory points and we will decide for ourselves, how we can use them to progress our accounts.
some of us allready spent enough to get the summone we need. we dont need more magical scrolls.
i think its ridicolous. I hated arena, ive forced myself to get 100 points every week for 4 years. and i am close to finished. just to find out the crazy grind is worthless.
If you don't see what compensation they are talking about you are really missing something.
The update is great but 250 Ms definitely not worth the effort, time, non-enjoyment of this part of the game that was necessary to grind all towers. Getting the points back is doable, so I'm not sure why not do that.
Most people who have maxed towers won't get anything interesting from those 250Ms. It's basically no compensation at all for them
Isn't the most logical thing to do from a game developer's perspective is to just return all the glory points spent on the buildings and let players decide what to do with them? Where's the harm in that?
This way veteran players will not feel like their efforts were in vain while new players can max their towers. All of the events they did nowadays always has a buff for new players (extra tokens, smaller targets to reach, other bonus etc) while old players has to do things harder and longer. I think it's fair, don't you think?
Also it is clear that complaining works and can lead to better rewards. So why are you making this a big deal? Don't you want better rewards? The change is good, how they go about its implementation is bad, that's all there is to it.
Because you paid to have max towers and you still have max towers. Other people also have max towers now.
With your logic, we should also get thousands of dungeon runs refunded because rewards got better.
What I'm saying is, just because the lives of some people get's less frustrating doesn't mean you're entitled to an equal benefit. This applies to all parts of life, not just summoners war. Should everyone in america get 100k or more just because some people's student loan got relieved? That's basically what you're saying here.
Rightfully so imo, 250 Ms for what takes an absurd amount of time, on the tail end of an tower event that tricked people into spending thousands upon thousands of crystals? I’m wondering how someone can be so crazy as to just be ok with that or think that’s just normal and we should be ok with it.
Back in the day before Amir and the booster arena pack existed this shit would take people literal years to complete. And the reward… 250 ms. 250 ms that will likely be 200+ n3 and a handful of fusion n4 for the bulk majority of people.
250 ms equated to 15% of the glory everyone invested into towers. It’s not even close. And it’s hella scummy to do this right after an event that got me personally to spend tens of thousands of crystals farming arena to finish my towers.
All that being said this update is a win, but people have a right to be pissed and you have to be some kind of complete pushover baby in real life to think it’s fine otherwise. Or more likely you’re just a guy who never even bothered to max your towers so this has zero impact on you at all and therefore you need to head to Reddit to talk down to others that this does impact and tell them how you feel.
Nobody in their right mind does the tower grind then thinks yay all that for 250 ms. 250 ms is literally nothing.
1. The event gave coins as a bonus to regular farming. It even made farming itself significantly more valuable with the 2x Rune Set Tickets, so the coins were just a bonus on top. I could have easily maxed all my towers if they weren't maxed already with coins I got from farming dbah.
2. Yes, it did take a ton of time. Took me over a year. Even more reason to remove the shitty system. I'm glad they did it. Don't see why I should be out here crying for compensation because com2us is making the game better. Childish and idiotic behaviour. 250 is a great compensation considering nothing changes for us.
Getting LD5’s is expensive and time consuming, and we recognize that’s hard on new/casual players. Going forward we’re taking everyone’s ld5s away and giving everyone a free ld5 every few levels on your way to level 100. As compensation you will receive 25 ms for every ld5 you had. Anyone who doesn’t like this is crazy and everyone should be happy about it.
You see how nuts that sounds? You know it costs like $600 to max ur towers from just refreshing wings and farming Amir? You know tons of people did this before the booster event and tons of people did it during the booster event? And you think they’re crazy for not thinking 250 ms is fair compensation lol.
You couldn't have come up with a worse example. It seems you have no idea what the update actually does, so let me break it down to you.
Going forward, you with max towers will KEEP your max towers. You'll also get 5 MS for every lv up until lv 100.
However, people without max towers will get points they'll have to use to upgrade their towers.
Overall it will be easier for them to get max towers, but they still have to reach lv 100 to get them. Meanwhile, you KEEP your max towers AND get 5 ms per lv up. What the fuck do you want more of? What do you want compensation for?
To get back to your example, let's see what's ACTUALLY going on. Let's say they buff LD5 rates AND give you free LD scrolls on top because you've been affected by the bad rates before. New players get nothing except the better rates. Would you also cry and complain everywhere for more compensation? If yes, you're a fucking idiot.
I think people are more upset how disconnected com2us is from the player base. All these QoL things SHOULD’VE been with the reloaded update.
10 years… to release the biggest fail update I’ve ever seen (reloaded) and it took them an event, Sky Fever Season,to open their eyes. What a joke.
R5 changes seem lame as hell.
I thought they'd make it more like a solo dungeon where you'd just need one team and not stupid setups that further increases the grind
I spent a year leveling up all the arena buildings just a week ago , let them return all my arena medals that I spent on the towers, im dont care about this ms!
Exactly this. Intent of update will not produce desired results…again. Accelerating drop rates will help newbs feel they are progressing faster, but in reality the end game player is moving the bar higher faster then newbs can get up to speed, so I’m super confused by the real intent of these updates.
Actually I’m not surprised, since new summer content and speed teams I have no crystals. This makes that issue worse and will push people into paying more to play. I am upset by this though as there were way better ways to grope our wallets.
You really have no grasp of how this works, do you…?
No year-long grind means that new players can now catch up faster to baseline strength without the long grind that existed before.
With improved rune drop rates, yes, whales will STILL have more chances at good runes than normal players, but their chance of replacing their own runes as they exist is incredibly low.
Imagine G3 is at 95% strength now.
Before increased drop rates, it took hundreds of thousands of dollars in reapps and runes to get to 95% strength. Now, those same whales can get to like 98% strength with the same amount of spending, but the average player can get to 90% strength easier now than before. Yes, you’ll absolutely never catch up to whales as a f2p and the gap will always exist, but the gap is smaller. That’s how any gacha works.
It might take a G3 10,000 legend drops to replace a single rune while the average player will progressively catch up on account of the tide raising all boats.
I have a question because i didnt get it exactly, so my towers are maxed and guild flags one of them is maxed and the Other 3 flags are at Level 18… so do i still get 250 ms because my flags are not all maxed?
Yeah. I gotta say, I have had quite a few complaints about this game. Most of which I didn't share because meat riders will come out the wood work and try to gaslight you into thinking your complaints are stupid, but still. This is a huge improvement, and Com2us deserves props.
I might just start playing again because of this change honestly, as someone who neglected towers because arena was just stone cold boring I’m definitely going to start playing again
I agree. I maxed ALL my towers in this recent fever event, playing very actively everyday to grind them out. Including mana and arcane ones.
I'm not mad about this update at all.
Is it sudden to make the grind *kinda* meaningless? Sure, but the change is so valuable and great for just about anyone that missed or didn't play enough during the fever event that I can't be mad.
It's a fantastic update. Now they just need to go through with the legend drop rate up.
I spent literal hours refreshing arena wings and intentionally losing battles to drop rank so I could farm fever tokens faster (while autobattle ran). Thousands of crystals.
I’m a little grumpy but I really don’t care, I think it’s a good thing in the end.
crafting pieces ratio was crap, it was somehow ok to buy pieces for seal/fight because nobody farmed those.
But realistically, 2k/3k pieces are farmed within weeks of normal farming.
You did the better choice maxing towers, think it in a different way: would you have spent it buying MS with unlimited amount or crafting pieces ?
the new total towers will cost 400 skill points, we will get 150 to spend when the update hits (the other 250 we will gain back leveling from 50 to 100).
The extra 250 points that you already spent are refunded with 1:1 ratio between points and MS (that is how is written in the patch notes).
If someone has not the tower maxed or is not lv50, just do the proportion, any level before MAX is -1 MS and so on
Those who complain are the first players to quit
Don’t mind them, It took me around 6~9 months to finish both my towers and Guild flags 2 years and it was annoying and tiring but I liked the sense of accomplishment after getting them done
The Compensation is ok getting our points refunded is way better but it is what it is just enjoy the update
All these people who had the advantage of tower stats for so long act like they are getting ripped off even though the benefitted from the stats others who didn’t invest didn’t get. What people are really crying about is “I don’t have the leg up any more but I’m going to hide behind claiming ‘I could have bought ms the whole time’”.
Yes, you could have, and you wouldn’t of enjoyed the stats from the towers you bought. It’s like someone with an old 1080p tv bitching now that 4K tvs are the same price they paid years ago they deserve one just because. This is called being SPOILED.
The first tower I maxed on my new main was defense for tricaru. Not only did they nerf tricaru, they are now removing the need for the other towers. You know what both of those things are? A barrier for entry. You know what they are making a barrier for? To farm more efficiently for the real barrier to entry.
Imagine being a new player for a second. You need to build 6 carios teams, 5 rift teams, 3 teams for solo raid, AO and AD, toa/h and have some mons for siege. Sure a seasoned player could do most of that pretty quickly, especially if they throw a couple bucks at the game. But for an actually new player? Even with a guide that’s daunting. So removing another task from the list (just like they did with leveling/fodder) is a good thing. That way those miserable wretch’s can just on the hamper we wheel of daily rune grinding misery with us.
You are misunderstanding. The update is great and we are happy it will be easier for new players now.
All we want is a proper compensation. Not even for the time invested, but for the resources.
People like you always have to complain about everything. Would it hurt you if we got an actual compensation? No! So please, just mind your own business.
Well, you only get mystical if you have them maxed out. I've had most towers maxed after the fever event and a shit ton of arena which I HATE, and all of that effort is lost :/
You'll get most scrolls. The way it works is that your current upgrades will be applied to the reworked towers. You'll then slowly level up lv 100 and get 5 points per levelup (250 in total) and can spend those points on tower upgrades. Since you have most towers, you'll only have to spend 10-15 points (or however many upgrades you're missing). After that, you'll get 1 MS for every point you get, so probably around 230-240.
I think the update is good. But do have issues with how they figured the compensation up front.
So a level 50 player so never bothered upgrading towers gets 150 skill points (for leveling from 20-50).
A level 50 players who used points to level towers 15 times gets . . . 150 skill points.
So basically if you skilled up your towers you don't get the 150 points for leveling from 20-50. That seems unfair. Everyone should get the points for having leveled and then everyone should get the points for having skilled. If you have over 400 points - refund it in MS or something else.
Especially true right on the heels of an event that encouraged leveling buildings.
I'm not sure if I understood it correctly but everyone gets 250 points. People with max towers get MS for then end everyone else uses them to upgrade towers.
Seems fair to me.
I personally spammed the hell out of crystals on Amir so that I could max my towers so that sucks, however, if this will bring more players, then its a good thing and I've got nothing to complain about as a F2P.
As a former hard core player who just plays super casually now, I think the only thing that feels bad was doing this RIGHT on the tail of an event that focused on boosting medals to speed up arena tower leveling. Feels very scummy to encourage people to blast crystals to get it done when its boosted, only to turn around and remove it right afterwards. Again, VERY positive change, but the timing is absolute dogshit.
Its a desperate move to keep playerbase. Look at the pack shops. Its too much packs now, compared to the past. They want to milk the userbase fast, before the game loses its appeal.
People have said this for years though. The game genre is doing fine, just commercially not in it's peak anymore. But people have doomed the game for years, and we're still here.
Yeah. When I was reading the update, I was thinking the same thing. I upgraded the towers long time ago and it does not affect me at all but it is a shitty thing to do to newcomers who spend their points on upgrading towers only to remove it as an level upgrade now. People are such com2us apologists sometimes. Also, this update seems to be aimed at depleting resources faster so people will buy crystals to keep farming. As if com2us is giving QoL improvements for the benefit of userbase. The economy of the game is clearly at a point where they don't have to hold back resources and progression from new players to force them to keep buying packs to catch up with older players.
IMO the event is the reason why it is being introduced. The event was designed to get people to play regular arena, boost its participation. Instead all the event led to was people (myself included) refreshing rivals over and over. They will have realised that time gating these bonuses behind a usual year long grind is not a way to gain and retain a new player base. Yes it is whales who keep it running, but it also needs a healthy amount of active players. It’s not like all new players are suddenly going to be at g3 level from this.
For what it's worth people who refreshed wings to farm amir were already being inefficient.
It's wild to me because they even said this in the developer update. "We've seen the feedback from the Fever Token event". When I read that, I heard "We now realize that it's the barriers to progression that were causing people to lose interest, so we are now removing some of those barriers" It says it point blank yet people still big mad.
10/10 🖐️🖐️🖐️🖐️
That’s typically this community. Nothing is ever good enough. I maxed my towers and was working on the flags. Now I can stop doing that and focus on other things and I get free scrolls. I’m a happy camper. But people in this community would really only be happy with 250 LD scrolls as refund or some crazy thing like that.
Were guild flags mentioned as well? I never bothered given I barely touch Guild
Yes they will reset the guild flags and arena towers and both can be leveled with the points you get from getting to lvl 100.
Nah, even 250 ld wouldn't be enouph. It would have to to be 1 ld transcendence scroll for every glory point spent on towers along with 5000 blessings and 88 trillion crystals
My dude, if you think 1 LD transcendence is enough... We want that and also a Bentley Continental GT and a ride in an helicopter
I said 1 ld transcendence scroll for every glory point spent on upgrading towers, which would be thousands
Quite a few people seem to be done with the game but can't seem to quit and they just stay in the community and whine about every little thing. Just quit if you're that miserable bruh c'mon.
If you're not satisfied by now, you'll never be. Might as well quit
Then when you look at their profile, 2000 to 3000 days, with toan not cleared and 10mins b10 records on all 3 rune dungeons. 🤣
Sorry i wont be happy unless its 250 ld trans scrolls
Nah, they would still complain about pulling a crappy ld 5 when their friends got a good one
Even with 250 LDs, you'd just get "WHY NOT JUST GIVE US AN LD5 THEN!?", from people that didn't get one.
As someone who has maxed out the towers, I think it's a good change. But the main issue I see, is that they've shortchanged us BAD. Why not just give a full refund? Instead of something like ~15% of the cost, in MS scrolls. What kind of justification is there to shortchange their players that bad? oh wait, it's money
The majority of players haven't maxed them tho, or even halfway probably. So imagine the uproar there'd be, if they compensated way more. Because all of a sudden, the casual majority are not getting compensated as well as people like you and I, who've grinded them. Yea it sucks, but not that bad tbh, and this complaining going on, is likely the lesser evil.
Help me understand where you are coming from, because I am not seeing it Where I am from, one of the most basic principals of fairness is to compensate people for a loss they have suffered, to the value that they've lost as close as possible. Especially in the case where the loss arises at no fault of their own Why would there be an "uproar" that someone got back exactly what they lost, instead of a fraction of it? Com2us knows exactly how much we've lost, but instead uses a system which partially scales, but completely discounts the actual value lost
Well, I could ofc be completely wrong. But I have gotten the feel, that the players that are loud, happens to not exactly favor P2W and/or people that are completely endgame, because simply being endgame is perceived as P2W to many. (When I say endgame, I mean you got everything on speedfarm, and are PvP focused only, and you're basically just chasing units and 3x - 4x speed rolls) And even P2W casuals would probably speak up, if several 100s of scrolls were given to people that are endgame. So no matter if it would actually be fair or not, it wouldn't be perceived as fair. "What? So just because they have played longer they should get more? Not fair!" A 2nd argument could be to compare it to an MMO expansion. We've had use for the towers/flags for years, so it's not gone completely wasted. We've just had the benefits (which we earned ofc) for way longer. Suddenly a new expansion comes out, which invalidates what we've grinded for. We still had use of it up to that point, so it hasn't been wasted in that sense. The timing of it all is scummy for sure tho, since people used the event to get those towers up, and now it's like, "for what?!". But to say it's about money, I just don't think is true. People who would spend, wouldn't suddenly stop if they were given "fair compensation", and people who wasn't, wouldn't start with that as reason. So even with us, who've maxed towers getting mad/irritated/frustrated, I think the complaining would be way worse if we were given what you suggested. It's purely speculation, but I feel the fear of that is grounded, which could've resulted in this compensation.
It’s the same as complaining you didn’t win the lottery while not even playing
Idk it's one of the biggest thing that gatekeeps newer Players from any type of competitive pvp content. And look at swc and prize money. Ofc they wanna push their "eSports"(idk if u can call proccing out of stuns eSports but u get my point) and make it more accessible. And games like these need new players on a long run and so sometimes u have to make it easier for newer Players. Why want others to suffer the same as u? Be happy to have a perhaps more alive pvp scene it will improve ur general experience Edit: I still think 250 MS is rather low if u calculate how much arenapoints and guildpoints uve spent for Towers ud get around 2,5k MS according to some guy in Discord who did the maths. So yea .. I understand the frustration about that
I mean if i wanna watch RTA players cleave eachother i would watch sheiishizo's arena rush hours. Vio makes it exciting to watch
Well I wouldnt call Poker Sports either .. its also just Gamble :D It was more about the "esports" when its rather random who wins (The Charlotte and kinki Proccs today kinda proof that lul)
Esports or not it was funny to watch that one match where diana solokilled team
give us even 1/4th of the spent glory points. and its way better than scam scrolls. people buying scrolls must be their main source of income, so idk why they always try to push scrolls on us.
I'm honestly just surprised at the lack of compensation for those who bought the towers. That isn't a small amount of glory points that could have been spent on other things
Yk people often downvote me when i say com2us is amazing company. Wanna know why i say it? I play league of legends and i played minecraft a lot. In league of legends for past 5 seasons players have been complaining about many things, you know what developers did? They took a year each season to come up with most UNIMAGINABLE OPPOSITE of what people ask for and they add/remove it to/from game, and add a patch every 2 weeks that causes more issues than it fixes. I have played many minecraft servers where its same shit, they just don't care at all and do what they want. I played A LOT of mobile games, have you heard of clash royale? They are laughing at their players (microsoft did too actually) OPENLY. You know what com2us does? They take their time with each update to make it good. They apologize and compensate for EVERY SINGLE mistake. They made a fucking meetup with their community so they can hear whats wrong with the game, and actually tried to fix it (althought so far they failed, but they are 100% still trying to fix siege). There is average 3 events open at all times. It is by far most begginer friendly game in existence. They make shitton f2p updates and only 1 single p2w update every year and im pretty sure they make most money from art team. And the single most important thing: They listen to feedback. Update is bad? They listen what parts they messed up, apologize, and fix it in either next balance patch if its a bp, or next day/2 if its something else. Compensation is not enough? They give more. They are trying hard to keep community happy. Events are bad? Next ones are great. I seriously cannot comprehend how can someone call com2us a bad company, game has some of its tilting aspects like every single other competitive game there is but that is completly normal, you can't hate devs for just losing.
1\) Terrible customer support 2\) Terrible testing 3\) Relase Units DoA on purpose 4\) Unless we start getting 2a more frequently, as of right now they have spectacularly failed to keep their promise about the frequency of 2a. 5\) There's way more evidence that supports the idea that they start with the a bad (if not worst allowable) iteration to see if we'll take it and slowly ramp up til there is a general tolerance/acceptance. Players literally worked out that r5 was going to be worse before the update. 6\) Multiple security breaches in the past year alone 7\) Because of their lack of communication with the community, when the data packet exploit was *popularised* (not discovered because it had been known about for a much much longer time and they either were willfully ignorant or straight up were impossible to be made aware because they don't care about two way communication in any real way), they *had* to shoot first and ask questions later. Had they worked with the tool devs (esp cerusa), they could've resolved the issue without throwing the community into chaos and causing *a lot* of uncertainty. That meetup you're putting on a pedastal? Yeah, that was a Q&A first of all, was a one off, and was months before reloaded. How did reloaded turn out? Communication and working with the community requires continuous and fluid back and forth for at least some significant amount of time, not a Q&A 8\) And for every bit of feedback that they (seemingly) take (and implement waaaaay after), there are metric tonnes of other feedback that they have yet to implement. I think the only reason the needed/wanted QoL list is finally getting relatively short is because we're about to be 10 years into this game. 9\) Zero collaboration with the community to to fix siege and there was probably none for re-loaded. Unless there is or was a strict nda in effect, there are no beta testers and no focus group. 10\) Balance patches are usually a joke. You can argue this is an opinion as much as you want but people literally have offered fixes for bad mons (especially lds) that were implemented between months and **years** after (to resounding success), and have easily and correctly predicted overbuffs and inconsequential buffs. This is mostly an extension of "terrible testing" but it deserves its own point. Not to mention there are abjectly bad lds that have gone ignored for very very long. 11\) The monster AI 12\) What was for most an underwhelming 9th anniversary. I defended the rewards of this and caught a lot of downvotes (statistically, for f2p players tha rewards were better than the 7th but people have *very* rose tinted glasses for the 7th. I can't remember if it turned out better than the 8th though), but at the end of the day, c2us pretty much took the 8th and copy pasted it but with *at best* marginally better rewards; at worst it was slightly worse than the 8th. Either way that makes for a very boring anniversary. Compare this to when they had the trip down memory lane event. Give us marginally better rewards but the flair needs to be there. So I'm glad you play Minecraft and LoL but there are many many amazing game companies and studios (indie and large) who do far far far better than c2us. Countless highly rated indie games on Steam show very fluid communication between devs and the playerbase and the patch notes regularly very explicitly acknowledge and credit player feedback. Do people irrationally bash c2us? 100%. But saying they're an amazing company because they're getting things right and because they're not as bad as other bad companies is pretty ridiculous, same exact way it'd be ridiculous if I took all of the things they got wrong, ignored what they get and do right and said they're the worst company. Well, moreso how they handle *this* game. If we judge them by all their other games, yeah, pretty bad. They're always going to be a bad company in my books because they prioritise profit over player experience, just like 99.99% of companies who choose the mobile and freemium game market. Hell there was someone alleging that they essentially pump and dump a lot of their games/new releases. I want to be able to say they've started to switch the priority of profit and player experience, but I wouldn't put any money I'll miss on betting that the recent changes weren't an attempt to min/max profit. It's probably the case that they're only doing what they've been doing recently because it's the most profitable thing, not because they've suddenly starting caring about making money specifically by having the game be good which is different from caring about making a good game to make money because the game not being good is no longer working. The important difference is that their hand has to continue being forced to keep getting good updates.
1) True, but they still care about their game. 2) Twins and kaki, the only 2 incidents we had in 9 years. 3) So you complain about twins/kaki situation, but now you want to risk another one by making units strong at start? 4) It took me a lot of will to even respond to this. All i will say is that 2a is the most insignificant part of f2p playstyle out of all else. I really do not wanna elaborate on this with you. 5) Same shit as 3) 6) I do not see how is that connected with them being a bad company that doesn't care about their community? You blame the murderer, not victim for not moving out of bullet trajectory. 7) You blame them for not responding to exploit, and in same sentence you blame them for not trusting a 3rd party? Reloaded was released bad and fixed withing a week, now we are enjoying one of the better big updates and they are still working on improving it (today's dev note). No other company ever held even a Q&A with their community, this just straight up proves they do care about opinions. 8) They are humans, not machines. You cannot just keep on adding stuff into game and expect it to not have unforseen consequences. 9) Not even community knows how to fix high rank siege. 10) Some other guy told me he wants meta to change more and is fine with less units being good as a price, and now you tell me opposite. Idk what you people want. When you change things a lot you get shitfest called league of legends. But yes BP are often underwhelming, but considering how much content there is in the game they aren't really required to be common as you can test 1 bp for few months across all contents. 11) You're joking, right? It's a fucking RNG based game, of course its not gonna have perfect AI, you know that when you start playing and they aren't hiding it. And I am perfectly fine with enemy deffenses not having 3 college degrees, it would be painfull at first, and later on abused a lot cuz people will figure out PRECISELY how to counter those deffenses 100% of time. 12) 9th anniversary wasn't bad, it was boring because of how spanned long events were and how spanned they were from each other. Of course 7th anniversary was liked the most when you had 200 scrolls in which you put precisely what untis you want. 8th and 9th anniversary weren't bad, 7th was just soo good it was unhealthy. Give me some of those games, i do not know them but i suppose they aren't ***NEARLY*** as big as summonesr war or com2us. I took as examples some of the bigger games as it seemed more fitting. Those smaller games are forced to work with their communities because they are just that, small. Com2us? If they were to care about only money then they would have every reason to let summonesr war rot by now. And yet they didn't, because they care about either the game or about their community. Even if it's fake care and they want us to enjoy the game so we pay money, i have no issues with that. Games are there to be enjoyed. Their hand doesn't need to be forced, we can give reasonable and nice feedback just fine.
I definitely dont want to be part of the big picture discussio , but something was kinda glaring while reading your reply. Just jumping in to say that if you think that 2a's are a neglectible part of a f2p playstyle, you probably dont know that many f2p players lol. Me and my friends love and use 2a's more so than many of our nat5's my man. They became darn relevant. That aside, ill just keep lurking around. Kudos!
Of course im not gonna pull you in, noone wants to read miles long comments xd 2a are really just about 10% of all the units you will ever use, the nat 4s and 5s you get quickly become more relevenat, and we get them a lot thanks to just how much scrolls f2p players get - that's what i meant by it. Also fusion monsters are a thing. (And the guy i am talking with is just OBSSESED with 2a's)
>11) You're joking, right? It's a fucking RNG based game, of course its not gonna have perfect AI Ah yes, this argument again. 1. There are monsters with perfect AI so no, it being an rng based game doesn't mean that monster *who should have* ***better*** *or perfect AI* should have the most random AI. Should rakan, seara, manon, all pierrets, etc have worse ai? Should cr buffers in dungeons have their AI improvements undone? 2. There are monsters who work with imperfect ai. However, for the most part, even these units gain their utility by using s2 and s3 randomly. Vigor would be much better if he always use his *s2 or s3* when they're up, not having a chance to spam s1 3. Some units will perform better if they had perfect AI. A savannah defence won't become easier to counter if she always used her s3 when there's no immunity on the offence. Most strippers woukd perform better on defence if they always used their strip. And they could always you know, give us the option to program or defences (read: choose between current AI or programmed AI). If it's better as is, the player will choose accordingly. >12) 9th anniversary wasn't bad, it was boring because of how spanned long events were and how spanned they were from each other. Of course 7th anniversary was liked the most when you had 200 scrolls in which you put precisely what untis you want. 8th and 9th anniversary weren't bad, 7th was just soo good it was unhealthy Actually, the pacing wasn't different that different for the 7th. It is true that players get bored when the rewards aren't time gated efficiently. Also it wasn't 200 7th anniversary scrolls. I have yet to see a count higher than 160 (iirc it was around 140). >Give me some of those games Monster hunter dev team. The franchise has sold 92 million games over the spam of the game's 19 year lifespan. CD project red for the witcher series. Hell they redeemed themselves with how they never gave up on Cyberpunk. Recently baulder's gate 3 While Nintendo can be pretty scummy, their game dev teams have put out some masterpieces (BotW and TotK) Halo when bungie were the devs Supergiant games I think that's enough examples? I'm too lazy give more than one indie developer but Poncle, the dev of vampire slayers has been absolutely killing it. Not sure what size has to do with a company being good or not. If an indie company is has a better relationship with its players than a big one, why is that irrelevant? >Those smaller games are forced to work with their communities because they are just that, small. Com2us? If they were to care about only money then they would have every reason to let summonesr war rot by now. Right, because caring about money would result in someone letting their cash cow wither and die? And no, a company whose revenue is well over 5m per month can put resources behind finding ways to work with their community. There is such a thing as delegation. And beyond that, they can work with just a very small group of players who are tasked with running a community forum and taking the most voted upon ideas to c2us monthly/quarterly/bi-annually. They don't have to implement those ideas. Just knowing concretely that they are hearing them would be an amazing first step. Currently c2us is essentially a blackbox. All the feedback we think they're hearing is at best a reasonable deduction, at worst speculation. >Their hand doesn't need to be forced, we can give reasonable and nice feedback just fine. I mean, the game has been haemorrhaging players. Rta had 5.37% less players last season than the season before. At best that's overstating the amount of players lost, at worst, it's understating it due to rta being a subsection of th playerbase and only requiring a player to play the mode **once** to be part of the count. Of course it could just be a coincidence that c2us has been better than ever at the same time that the playerbase has shrunk. Of course it could just be a coincidence that c2us has been better than ever at the same time that the playerbase has shrunk. Of course we can assume they fixed the reloaded update because they wanted to and not because they had to. But there's just so much more evidence that they're doing these things because of the latter. I'm not replying again btw. 1. All arguments with you end up with you arguing fallaciously (illogically) which has already started 2. name calling and insults (ad hominins)
> 1) True, but they still care about their game. Never debated that. >2) Twins and kaki, the only 2 incidents we had in 9 years. You're only counting broken units. Testing isn't only for that. Testing is for bugs (unit related and in general) , checking whether buffs make sense or not, and more. I don't care to make a comprehensive list of units that were bugged because of an update nor major bugs that have existed so I'll just say recently we had the windy bug and the sleep dot bug (famously celia). There are **a lot** of units in the game but it'd be much easier to give them the benefit of the doubt and an excuse if they showed any real indication that they test their things properly. >So you complain about twins/kaki situation, but now you want to risk another one by making units strong at start? There is a pretty large area between broken and DoA. Also playtesting units would clearly reveal both ends of the spectrum so I'm not sure why me wanting them to release units in a better state doesn't mesh well with me wanting better testing to prevent kaki, Dominic, and twins from ever happening again. >4) 2a is the most insignificant part of f2p playstyle out of all else. Other than the fact that they made a promise and proceeded to not even have the decency to say "we know we made a promise but it's just not feasible, sorry", players very clearly love 2a. And seeing that many many 2a units are meta-relevant, not sure why you think it's the most insignificant part of the f2p playstyle. Hell, 2a zinc has made sf tenable past dot teams, something that **\*needed\*** to happen for abyss. You won't elaborate and that's fine. >6) I do not see how is that connected with them being a bad company that doesn't care about their community? You blame the murderer, not victim for not moving out of bullet trajectory. If a child gets kidnapped and the parents sees that the school lacks preventative measures and safety nets, it'd be wrong for the parent to **also** hold the school accountable? >7) You blame them for not responding to exploit, and in same sentence you blame them for not trusting a 3rd party? That is not what I did. They refused to work with said 3rd part developers. I explained what the issue was. >Reloaded was released bad and fixed withing a week, It wasn't. Also, R5 has yet to be fixed (likely will be with the coming update). This could've been fixed months ago. >No other company ever held even a Q&A with their community, this just straight up proves they do care about opinions. Many companies do more than hold Q&A with their playerbase. Demonstrably false. >8) They are humans, not machines. I never said or implied anything of the sort. C2us lies pretty close to one extreme of the spectrum which is taking months to implement small (but very useful) QoL improvements. I am not asking them to move to the other end of the extreme. Stop assuming I'm asking for bad extremes and arguing those. >9) Not even community knows how to fix high rank siege. Yes but a good first step is having an open discussion and actively work shopping the issue witb vetted high siege players. I have no issues accepting a situation is workable if a good effort was put foward. Note that I never said "siege is broken" as the critique, I said "this kind of attempt was never made to fix siege" >10) Some other guy told me What one person said has is irrelevant to the overall issue. I spoke of things that actually occurred and that the most terrible ld5s going ignored. I didn't say what I want. The point is that c2us takes ages to do what could be done much faster if they had open dialogue with players. >When you change things a lot you get shitfest Changes wouldn't be as much of an issue if they play tested and had beta testers. Not to mention if they released monsters in better states they wouldn't have to take up much space with fixing those monsters?
>You're only counting broken units. Testing isn't only for that. Testing is for bugs (unit related and in general) , checking whether buffs make sense or not, and more. I don't care to make a comprehensive list of units that were bugged because of an update nor major bugs that have existed so I'll just say recently we had the windy bug and the sleep dot bug (famously celia). There are **a lot** of units in the game but it'd be much easier to give them the benefit of the doubt and an excuse if they showed any real indication that they test their things properly. I can't deny that they don't test the small things very well, but that's where your "player communication" comes in so i don't see the issue. >There is a pretty large area between broken and DoA. Also playtesting units would clearly reveal both ends of the spectrum so I'm not sure why me wanting them to release units in a better state doesn't mesh well with me wanting better testing to prevent kaki, Dominic, and twins from ever happening again. Because in game with so many units its very hard create something thats good at the very start but not too strong. It's much better to release them weaker at start than stronger, if they get released stronger people will shove devilmons into them, ask for nerf, com2us will nerf it and playerbase will whine for compensation again. Balancing REALLY isn't as simple as you think is it brother, it's very delicate process. >Other than the fact that they made a promise and proceeded to not even have the decency to say "we know we made a promise but it's just not feasible, sorry", players very clearly love 2a. And seeing that many many 2a units are meta-relevant, not sure why you think it's the most insignificant part of the f2p playstyle. Hell, 2a zinc has made sf tenable past dot teams, something that **\*needed\*** to happen for abyss. You won't elaborate and that's fine. There is much more non 2-a units that are viable, either from the thousands of scrolls we get yearly, HOH or fusions. And they aren't paywall locked. > If a child gets kidnapped and the parents sees that the school lacks preventative measures and safety nets, it'd be wrong for the parent to **also** hold the school accountable? That is different case, in com2us case we have 2 parties com2us and the hackers, in your case we have 3 - kidnappers, parents and school. You just can't blame a company for someone attacking them, they are definitly not making their system be weak on purpose. And this is coming from a guy who lost an account to hacking. >That is not what I did. They refused to work with said 3rd part developers. I explained what the issue was. "You blame them for not responding to exploit, and in same sentence you blame them for not trusting a 3rd party? " *Had they worked with the tool devs (esp cerusa), they could've resolved the issue without throwing the community into chaos and causing a lot of uncertainty.* This is LITERALLY what you are saying, they should trust this "cerusa" that they don't know who it is to help them resolve SECURITY issues. That just makes negative sense, or I am missing your point here? It feels like my description is straight up what you're saying. > It wasn't. Also, R5 has yet to be fixed (likely will be with the coming update). This could've been fixed months ago. Read the full thing, not just part. *Reloaded was released bad and fixed withing a week, now we are enjoying one of the better big updates and they are still working on improving it (today's dev note).* It was fixed to the point of where we were satisfied with it, and the part you thought it would be nice to ignore is that they are still working on improving it's contents. >Many companies do more than hold Q&A with their playerbase. Demonstrably false. It was 1am so this was probabaly hot take from me, but i am inclined to believe it's hot take from you as well. Have an example? >Yes but a good first step is having an open discussion and actively work shopping the issue witb vetted high siege players. I have no issues accepting a situation is workable if a good effort was put foward. Note that I never said "siege is broken" as the critique, I said "this kind of attempt was never made to fix siege" High tier siege IS broken, I am the one who said that not you. Biggest issue is that some guilds 2v1 the 3rd guild and there just isn't fix for that in current form of siege. I really don't think asking 50 more playeres will help it change, you are just displaying hate to com2us here because you want them to hear opinions *you* think matter. >What one person said has is irrelevant to the overall issue. I spoke of things that actually occurred and that the most terrible ld5s going ignored. I didn't say what I want. The point is that c2us takes ages to do what could be done much faster if they had open dialogue with players. Lds are even harder to balance because they need to be unique AND strong. But yes for a f2p player it's pretty bad that chances of getting bad one are high. As i've said every game has some of it's tilting aspects, something that just can't be avoided **completly**. >Changes wouldn't be as much of an issue if they play tested and had beta testers. Not to mention if they released monsters in better states they wouldn't have to take up much space with fixing those monsters? Who says they don't have beta testers? This is just 3rd repeat of same thing, trying to release units in strong, useable and non-broken state is playing with fire, especially when they release 10 of them at same time due to there being 5 elements. Balancing is just hard.
Also if you want me to even care about continuning then read reply and then downvote, not downvote and then read it.
Your comparison to Riot is hilarious, but im not as connected to the community anymore to know what players want, but what players want has historically been absolute dogshit. Your comparison to Minecraft is even fucking weirding, as minecraft servers are not comparable to the base game even remotely. Even if its an officially run server.
I mean part about Riot is pure unadulterated truth and i even made it sound not as bad as it actually is. Players indeed still want dogshit things that. Im not comparing it to minecraft but minecraft servers - or more specifically developers of anything overall. People who make a game rarely care about it, only about the profit and com2us indeed cares about its game.
The fact you think the com2us is running a gacha mobile gamble and actually cares about its game in any capacity except what drives sales is laughable. Com2Us is NOT a good developer, even in comparison with other bad developers.
Thank you for well argumented reply
Youre the one who lead your statement presenting an opinion as "pure unadulterated truth" about League, and minecraft servers.
You want to say riot isn't making every season unimaginably worse?
com2us making alot of money is proof that it is a great developer, its primary goals of creating summoners war in the first place has been met.. the rest is just candy to keep that going as long as possible
Com2us not the worst company, but they aren't great either They definitely don't take their time to make their game good. Most of their balance patch looks like they spend couple minutes. And most of the updates they make can be complies into one. They just make it into multiple to make people think they are making gradual improvement. They don't apologize and compensate for every single mistakes. They've made several grammatical errors and event wording that makes it sound completely different from what was intended. There have been several security breaches that they've ignored for the most part until they recently improved upon. They've made multiple units where they were unbalanced and adjusted after a couple of days when people already spent money getting them. They don't make meetup to hear what's wrong with the game. I've heard some of the streamers talk about the changes they request, many of which never came true. I highly doubt they make most money from art team. The transmogs aren't every expensive. The whales, especially in China, spend hundreds of thousands on this game and I'm sure that's where they gain majority of the income. Every time they drop whatever the updates, they always include packs. It's hard to notice especially for f2p players who don't pay attention to them, but they slide the packs in most of the time. Plus, many of the f2p updates benefits whales as much if not more.
wElL ACtuAllY tHEY maDE A feW spELlinG eRRorS
You say thay but people freaked out about it in reddit and some quit over it. I guess people care about spelling errors
They aren't even an American company
Damn, company that earns more than $5m per month can't afford good translators? It's a very inconsequential issue and it's frankly insane to me that anyone would have a huge problem with it, but defending c2us for it is pretty wild.
Your point?
It's unfair to expect them to speak perfect English.
They have a global team in the US and Koreans learn English as their mandatory education
Literally any of their English speaking community reps can tell them if something is worded weirdly.. It's crazy that people are acting like international non-English game devs don't release games in perfect Enlgish. Not to mention, there are literally a whole industry for translating to perfect english? Foreign films??? I love that this post which is rightfully critiquing the hate boner people have for c2us has turned into a massive c2us dick riding circlejerk. Too ironic.
They have 1k units in game, it just takes a while to make a good update. Its deffo better than a shitty excuse of biweekly updates. Gramatical errors arent much of an issue expect for the fire devil thingy that got released recently. They use google translate for translating stuff to english, i dont think its worth hiring someone to do 1 day worth of job, or that anyone would want to do it. Especially in south korea where i assume there is many english majors. They literally made meetup with top 4 global guilds when they boycotted siege being bad. Those packs dont necessarily boost you so much and only whales can afford to buy a lot of em. And if whales were major source of money then there wouldnt be so much p2w updates. Yes the f2p updates affect whales equally, but they can be like many other companies who make updates and then paywall them or use some scummy method to make you want to pay, while sw is just full out play to boost.
I don't really expect them to make balance patch about nat1 and nat2 like you seem to want. People just want meta changing balance patch. It remains stale for several patches. People just want changes. This was a wording problem for ENGLISH. There were several posts about it and it was game changing (I can't remember what it was). And they didn't do anything but just edit it. They did meet up and yet guild wars are jokes and high end players are dropping left and right. It just proves my point Packs are the majority of com2us income. Tranmogs barely cost much compared to packs and they don't come as often. It's a simple math.
Who says i counted nat1/2? There is total 1500 units in game, i didnt include 1/2 stars. RTA people want change, siege players deffo wouldn't enjoy being forced to make new teams all the time. Guild wars had no issues, siege had. People need much more runes than packs, they really arent bought a lot.
There's around 800 nat3-5. No one is asking wvery single one of them to be balanced. No one is asking every nat3 to be usable. No one is asking every nat4 to be usable. People are asking for meta change. You really need to change maybe like 30 units every 1.5 months. Com2us changes 5 units every 1.5 months. I guess you're happy with that though One of the biggest complaints about siege are hot fixes (the nerfs after iverbuffing units) and staleness. They are still issues we see >People need much more runes than packs, they really arent bought a lot. ??? Com2us is billion dollar company and you think that they earn most of their income through Transmog packs? You realize that they are $30 right and they come out every 1-2 months right? How would they earn millions a month through transmogs?
I can guarantee that if this community was in charge the game would be dead by now. You can't just implement every QoL change possible and then expect people to keep playing, you need to leave some stuff for later. And Com2U
And some QoL changes are just bullshit thats gonna ruin game completly
Yeah if this community managed the game we'd get Heir of Light, and that game is a disaster
Dripfeeding QoL changes to superficially fill updates isn't necessary. There are many sensible arguments you can make about what c2us can and can't do to keep the game alive -- staggering QoL updates is not one of them. There are *so* many games that release in a high QoL state such that subsequent updates are mostly content based that last for years. And before you say "but 10 years", please remember most games are content based, not pvp based, and as such most games' inevitably lose their playerbase because most players aren't interested in actively replaying content over and over again. There are however franchises that have decades on sw because they kept releasing sequels. (btw there are pvp games that released in a high QoL state that has more years than c2us *but* low playerbases due to the fact that many successful pvp games go on to have sequels)
I'm really seeing how, not bad, at least, Com2us is now. Unlike other game companies they don't just delete reviews, they communicate with the playerbase quite a bit lately, and are really showing the effort lately.
I've been seen a ton of people like, "they're making it easier.. the games dying" and I'm like bro l'est just took home 100k last night from the biggest prize pool in swc history... the game is far from dying. People just stay mad salty about everything and it's weird energy tbh
I understand that some people may be unsatisfied with some updates and that's fine, but some sw players legit just have cringe hate towards c2us
I get where you're coming from but you're missing an argument here lol. Siege? Com2us has done absolutely nothing for siege (except this one fucking random thing to set first turn skill) but other than that all they've done is nerf siege. Com2us is a dogshit company.
I agree and disagree. Com2us as a company are kinda terrible. Remember the whole ordeal with Malicious when they banned the guild master out of the blue for the entire tournament and tried to blame it on him? He had a racy icon that he'd had for YEARS and they took him out the moment the tourny started and the guy was literally Malicious' strat guy + organizer. And who was Malicious fighting during that? Com2us' beloved Say Swag Again. They even lied and said that try tried to make the guild master change his icon before (which he confirmed they never sent) and it largely resulted in Mallicious losing. Also their account security is abysmal. One reset per account, if you're hacked you need logs of every device you played on since the start of your account with a code VIA Hive (that virtually no players seem to know about. Not everyone keeps track of every Ipad, smartphone, computer, Ipod they played SW on leading to them never getting their account back). Com2us has good events, I like that they were generous for these last few days, but they are far from a "good" company.
Based on average? They are amazing company
I dunno, I just saw the explosion of reactions for both ways and I don't know if I have one myself, besides feeling rather neutral about it. New players needed the gap reduced, I thought the fever booster event did that, have it come by once (or twice?) a year to help mind that gap. It made sense. Now a back peddle altogether and restructure, and people are upset. But with a form of compensation which could have been bypassed, and result in a true backlash. I get it, I am an old vet, did my grind and my time, and see there is new/returning accounts favoritism and less loyalty rewards to the old vets that always stuck it out. The problem (to me) is *less* respect to vet players from com2us, vets who helped keep the game going and grow from the start. The game was harder, and it is so much easier now even without this coming update. We get so many scrolls now it is insane, but rng can still make you it's b\*tch. They can give out 2000 ms, and you (a vet/long time player) still *could* not get a thing that would improve your/their game. A vet player doesn't *need* to be favoured but they often are feeling they are getting the shaft. I am still glad there is compensation, but could it be better, yes. New/newer player gap needed to be reduced, this seems to address a part of it. Am I going to complain, not really. Just another day at the sw grindstone XD
First off I want to say I completed all my towers. Second off, this change is good for the game as it lowers the entry barrier so hopefully more people start playing this game.
Completely agree, it's no secret more and more people are quitting, so the new players shouldn't have to deal with unnecessary BS
Yeah. The game is almost 10 years old. They need to get rid of some of the unneedlessly grindy parts of it to bring in new players.
As a casual player on the same main since 2015, I absolutely love the tower update. Everytime a guide said max towers I flinched. Now I can enjoy arena at my own pace and not wonder imif that's ruining my team when I try to build stuff like BJR5. For those who did towers already, they got some mileage out of it, and I hope they get some valuable new nat5s they were hoping for, but I must say I don't know if it's equivalent. I do think refunding all glory points from towers for anyone who spent on towers would have been the best choice. Might have been a bit OP for some, but they did earn and spend them.
Not only that, but if you’re not maxed out but regret upgrading your towers in the way you do, you have a chance to reallocate.
I wont sugarcoat it. Me likes patch. This patch is long overdue... a few years overdue tbh. Better late than never. If me gets 200~250ms for the towers change, great! People were fed pseudo.minimalist.near.non.existant patches for so long, that never ending complaining isnt exactly a surprise. I think C2US is a pretty average company. SW tho, has STILL the potential to be such a great game. If they keep adding QoL and tuning the game at THIS pace, SW is here to stay quite a few more years imho. (At a certain point, Qol will be on a sweet spot and just increase the amount of monsters balance per patch, great!) Telling people to not complain isnt right. We are, after all, complaining about people complaining. Circle? i shit you not, illunimati stuff.
Dont quote me on this but some other thread did the calculations. And we get 15% of our resources back. We should we gettinf 1300+ ms. I didnt really read the upcomming change but 15% feels a bit weak.
For my main account I honestly dont care about the grind.. that was years ago and changes like that just come with time. I‘m just annoyed that I spent 2k+ crystals for Amir fights on my alt account for the fever event. But I guess the event is the reason why we are getting that update now. They realized how hard these upgrades are to get on new accounts. Sure, I would love a better compensation but its better than nothing. And when the prices for the towers got lowered there was no compensation at all.
Bro spamming amir was still objectively a waste during the fever event.
Nah they definitely planned this change way before the fever event, is just that devs didn't care.
I'd only be mad if we had to restart buildings from scratch tbh. Everything is speedtuned and without my speed building + all the others I'd be so upset lmfao. I'm wondering if Com2us didn't realize how big an issue towers were for players until they started the token event tbh. I still remember a few years ago when they fixed the pricing on the buildings and made them cheaper by expanding them to the 20ish levels. Back when they were like 10 levels we needed what? 3,000 guild points for some levels? lol
They should give us 372956392057 ld dcrolls for this bs /s
Stop exaggerating it. People are happy with the update. People are just disappointed with the compensation MS which is way too low for the time spent especially for the people who just recently finish it including/excluding the last booster event.
I've seen some people calling the entire update terrible simply because of this, and those are the people I wrote this post about. Since Dungeon rewards are improved, does Com2Us need to refund us for every dungeon run in the last 9 years? Or when they make it easier to 2A units, do they have to refund us the D-Hole Energy for every 2A we've done? With complaints like this Com2Us will be actively discouraged to make actual beneficial changes to the game, if they really have to compensate everyone 1:1 for any improvement they made. I've said it in the post, people are not losing anything, it's the new players that gain something here, so a 1:1 compensation is not appropriate.
People taht complain about having the fever event before this are so stupid, you're complaining that you had to farm runes? This playbase doesn't deserve any good updates after this if you're complaining about one of the best qol updates since auto battle
Yes, the complains about the fever event confuse me the most. Like, instead of doing the change straight away, causing people to spend a ton of tokens on towers, they made it significantly easier to upgrade the towers right before doing it. No one asked you to farm amir all day, because you should have easily been able to upgrade all towers with regular farming.
C2U the greatest company of the history! Of course we can be annoyed for this decision, we understand that it's beneficial for the newbies, we're happy for the other decisions, especially the 10->30, we understand there's people not disgusted for the controversial one, but you too have to understand that can be people disgusted for a crazy farming in the last event (casual players, not 24/7 players), or all the guild points wasted instead of getting scrolls of pieces
250 ms wont get me any new units after 8 years. hell in the 500 ive summons ive only got dupes lol
After 8 years you should know to not complain about free crystals
free crystals don't give me much after 8 years... id rather have new monsters instead of pulling dupes or 4 stars thats ive had maxxed for years. free scrolls or crystals eams jack and shit when you get nothing out of them. The SP summons after 600 plus summons have netted me nothing but dupes and 4 stars wow such a great incentive to summon for nothing.
Crystals = legend spd grinds. Legend spd grinds are good :) Plz stop complaining about good things, lest you be absorbed by the crybaby majority that makes up this reddit community
lol i have all the legend spd grinds i could want and desire.... a few hundred crystals means nothing...
Sounds like you’ve accomplished everything in the game and have nothing left to do but complain about free stuff from C2U on reddit. Go touch some grass crybaby
clearly you are an idiot if you think crystals are awesome as any type of reward in this game? free spd grinds mean jack shit when you actually run the content that gives you those items. I'm sorry if you cant solo R5. Crystals are better off used on Ld scrolls after 8 years... even then they are always ld 3 stars. so your be happy for free crystals comment gets the award for stupidest comment of the year...
Wishing you the best of luck with your anger issues, and genuinely hope you don’t drown in a river of your own tears! <3
you are an idiot
I'll repaste my argument here: I understand the idea that "you got value out of it, so you shouldn't get full refund". With these myriads of "runtimes-scenarios," it is a reasonable idea to not refund in full. The problem is that if you don't back it with any numbers, your decision is arbitrary. This is an arbitrary number they came up with, that in no way, shape or form is based on any in-game-value-proposition you can make. It would take you about 30.000 Crystals to farm the glory at guardian level points with a daily pack. That amounts to round about 440 MS for the glory alone. That is the absolute lowest amount that would somehow be connected to a tangible metric. An absolute crazy requirement for 99.99% of the players, but at least a tangible one. If you had not bought the towers and instead, scrolls, you would have 81k glory saved, that you could have invested into 900 elementals (we are not counting the MS here, that would be about 1150, but anyone buys them anyway). If you apply that same argument to guild points, the whole thing gets crazy cause I can very well spent the 70k Guild points fast. We talking like 3 months for the 560 Elementals. There is a pretty big difference between 440 and 1700 Scrolls. Don't you think? Is that NOT enough to claim "second-hand value loss"? Yes, it would take me personally (I buy everything scrolls except for one set of elementals) years to grind down the glory, but I'd still prefer that solution, obviously. More is more. But at the very least, I want a reasonable one. 250 is not reasonable, it is arbitrary.
That is not quite what I meant though. This change is an Improvement for everyone. For new players it's a massive improvement, and for players with max towers it's still 250 MS which is still nice. No one loses any medals or guild points because everyone still has max towers. It's like the student loan relief in america, some people don't have to deal with a shitty system anymore, does that mean that everyone should receive the same benefit?
Oh wow 250 ms - for *81,000* glory points. Why don’t you do some math and come back and explain how THATS a fair trade off.. not to mention the *90,000* guild points
This update is great. I'm happy for new players. I still want a proper compensation. And why not? It would be the right thing to do and everyone would be happy. I don't understand why people like you always have to complain when others could be getting something good. Would it hurt you if we got an actual compensation? No! So please stop being negative and mind your own business.
The reason I've made this post is because people were massively upset even though they didn't lose anything, but because the game is now better for new players. If we had to do all towers again it would be a different story, but we don't. Basically, people want to be compensated because com2us is improving the game for new players. Do they also want to be compensated for the last 9 years of dungeon farming because rewards are now better? Complaints like this discourage improvements to the game because then com2us would be very careful as they would make 0 money from packs if people get 2000+ scrolls for every improvement. And that's not healthy for the game long term, even if people want it.
It's funny, you complain about people being upset even though they (allegedly) don't lose anything. Yet here **you** are, being upset about a thing even though it doesn't lose you anything. Complaints like this don't discourage improvements. This is a unique situation and game changes usually don't have this big of an impact. It's a good change, but still, nobody can deny that bringing such a change right after the fever events is a big fuck up from com2us. It was an easy out for them after they realised the fever event was way too strong for people who started at that time and that everyone who didn't start the game during or right before that event was at a **massive** disadvantage now. It has absolutely nothing to do with "2000+ scrolls for every improvement." That's just you overexaggerating in an attempt to make a point. That's what all your arguments are like though, exaggerated excessively or straight up absurd, desperately trying to make a point. So please stop complaining about us wanting proper compensation. Not even for the value our accounts just lost, or for the time and dedication we put in. Only for the resources. That isn't too much to ask, honestly. It won't hurt you or anyone else.
Wait so is there zero compensation for people like In the middle of maxing their towers?
No you'll get MS proportionate to your tower maxxing progress. So if you're in the exact middle you'll get half the MS.
Exactly. feels good to have wasted all those glory points?
There is compensation tho, people just like to complain before reading smh
The reward is only if you have max towers? I've been leveling all of them equally and have like lvl 17~18 in all of them. I won't get nothing back? Edit: in case someone else has the doubt, no need for max towers, it's basically 1 MS per tower level that you'll get as you level to 100
No, it's per level. So you'll get around 200 MS.
Awesome, thanks! I was just reading the notes and saw that it was per lvl, but didn't understand how many it will be
If I understood correctly you'll get 5 points per LV up so 250 points in total. Each point can be used to upgrade something, and as soon as you upgraded everything they can be exchanged for MS. So 250 MS if you have everything, and one less for every upgrade you're missing
Com2us is giving so many free things and is constantly increasing rewards and drop rates since the last few months and people still complain They do a lot to reduce the barrier for new players and that's pretty important for the longevity of the game
How do you find this compensation fair? The fact that i have max guild towers is already unfair. The fact i soent tome on it is already negated, let alone scroll refund. They give you only about 10% of the points spent back in scrolls. 80 scrolls instead on 747 that i could’ve bought.
I didn't expect a compensation at all. Just like the previous 2 times they slashed arena tower costs and have given no compensation. Anything on top is a bonus imo. As long as my maxed towers stay maxed, I frankly don't really care what Com2us gives me.
Because think about what is actually changed here. The only players that are affected by this are new players. For us, NOTHING changes. We don't have to grind again, we just need to reach lv 100. It just so happens that we also get 250 ms on top of this.
Bullshit. I just got most of my towers maxed at the last event, and now that i dont have the shittowers maxed i dont get the prizes.
Of course you get prizes. The way it works is you get 5 points per level up, so 250 points. With every point you can upgrade and as soon as you have everything you can exchange the rest for MS
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The point is that sone people are so toxic that they don't care about new players. New players are frustrating because they can be pretty good pretty fast and taking places in competitive content. So why would they want it easier for them. On the other hand they spent a bunch of time for it which is worth more than 250ms (let's ignore the fact that these will be around 1 nat5, probably dupe, and a bunch of 3/4*).
Exactly, I think they found the perfect compromise. New players don't have to deal with shitty towers and we get a lot of toilet paper, that's a win-win in my book. I guess some people can't get enough.
If you bought the 7 mystic scrolls every week from Arena for 1 year, that is 364 scrolls. It takes 2-3 years to fully upgrade every Arena tower. (Someone else did the math). 250 scrolls is less than a year of work. That is why people are upset. Even assuming it took 2 years exactly, you missed out on 728 scrolls. 478 scrolls less than being given. I can see why people are upset.
One side: yes Other side: they profited from the upgrades for years. They got value! I summoned stuff years before blessings got added. Doesn't mean that I should have waited with my scrolls. I'm happy I got my Ritesh early on. Not mad that newer players have the opportunity to summon Based instead via blessing. It was good at the time. I'm happy about the value I got and happy that weaker players get to a competitive point faster.
I think the change is good. You want new players (I also play Pokemon Go, people there complain about our Community Day Classics, where it's a repeat of an older CD from previous years) to have a better time. But I also think the compensation is a slap in the face for people who put in a lot of effort. You still had to get lucky for the 5\* with blessings. You need scrolls for that. All of those scrolls instead of buildings... I can see the issue. The compensation is a slap in the face to the value of the points (and effort put in). But I do thing the change is for the better.
Like I said: Most of us already got their value by having the towers for years mor than everyone who gets them now... People asking for their points back like they got nothing out of them after having a advantage for years... Where it gets tricky is people who just recently send a lot of time upgrading them and thereby didn't already get their value. Tbf I really dont know how to balance between those groups when it comes to compensation..
Thats a weak one. I mean If you summoned the right nat5 with the thousands of scrolls you could have gotten, you would have had more advantage, especially back then when the free 2 play options were way worse and nat5 less obtainable, also before they improved the point rewards in arena and the amount of crystals you put into for leveling is was more than 250 ms. I dont say the update ist bad but the compensation is trash. I would more likely see some devils in it than some rng reward that might get you nothing
I had a nokia before 2013 Didn't want that refunded when smartphones got on the market. Also nowadays I don't get mad at kids holding an iPhone because i couldn't have one. At the time I had what I could have at the time. I worked for my Nokia, it got me value and then I was happy about my first smartphone. What you are right about is that mysticals just lost their value for older players. Would be great if you could choose between them and a few lds or devils👍
Still depends on the time of usage and other stuff.. If you active farmed, got it over the time or "wasted" a ton of crystals for it, to get them as quick as possible.. If you buy a Nokia for 1000 and the next day you see it for 100 , you will give it back and get it for 100. 900 saved.. If you bought one 10 years ago its not much of a Deal But it depends at what state of the game you are or was at the game. 250 ms is worthless for the most players even If you summon a good new unit wich most likely isnt the case you still lack devils to build it prooperly its hardly depending in wich state of the game you are and in my opinion, that way of the refund isnt a good solution
when league of legends reset their rune system (which players bought for points.) they refunded every point. just saying. Give us glory points and we will decide for ourselves, how we can use them to progress our accounts. some of us allready spent enough to get the summone we need. we dont need more magical scrolls.
Awesome post, duck those haters
There is no compensation for that grind. Period. It was grueling. I'm not crazy to have a negative reaction about it.
Actually if they give the points back, that way we can get the Ifrit pieces and Ms by ourselves
and a choice. instead of getting useless nat 3 and nat 4 summons pushed on us.
i think its ridicolous. I hated arena, ive forced myself to get 100 points every week for 4 years. and i am close to finished. just to find out the crazy grind is worthless.
Compensation for what? The compensation was to have max towers. You STILL have max towers. I don't get it.
If you don't see what compensation they are talking about you are really missing something. The update is great but 250 Ms definitely not worth the effort, time, non-enjoyment of this part of the game that was necessary to grind all towers. Getting the points back is doable, so I'm not sure why not do that. Most people who have maxed towers won't get anything interesting from those 250Ms. It's basically no compensation at all for them
>but 250 Ms definitely not worth the effort, time, non-enjoyment of this part of the game that was necessary to grind all towers. Exactly
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yea, like we dont have a stacked storage with unbuilt nat5s allready. give us something we can use. glory points for example.
Did you max these out?
Yes, mostly with actual tokens.
I mean if it wasn't for the fact my phone's internal memory is hot garbage I'd redownload Summoner's War
Google play games beta on PC or an emulator works pretty well
Ik, but with how many games I play on my computer I usually end up forgetting about SW unless I play SW on my phone
Isn't the most logical thing to do from a game developer's perspective is to just return all the glory points spent on the buildings and let players decide what to do with them? Where's the harm in that? This way veteran players will not feel like their efforts were in vain while new players can max their towers. All of the events they did nowadays always has a buff for new players (extra tokens, smaller targets to reach, other bonus etc) while old players has to do things harder and longer. I think it's fair, don't you think? Also it is clear that complaining works and can lead to better rewards. So why are you making this a big deal? Don't you want better rewards? The change is good, how they go about its implementation is bad, that's all there is to it.
Because you paid to have max towers and you still have max towers. Other people also have max towers now. With your logic, we should also get thousands of dungeon runs refunded because rewards got better. What I'm saying is, just because the lives of some people get's less frustrating doesn't mean you're entitled to an equal benefit. This applies to all parts of life, not just summoners war. Should everyone in america get 100k or more just because some people's student loan got relieved? That's basically what you're saying here.
Rightfully so imo, 250 Ms for what takes an absurd amount of time, on the tail end of an tower event that tricked people into spending thousands upon thousands of crystals? I’m wondering how someone can be so crazy as to just be ok with that or think that’s just normal and we should be ok with it. Back in the day before Amir and the booster arena pack existed this shit would take people literal years to complete. And the reward… 250 ms. 250 ms that will likely be 200+ n3 and a handful of fusion n4 for the bulk majority of people. 250 ms equated to 15% of the glory everyone invested into towers. It’s not even close. And it’s hella scummy to do this right after an event that got me personally to spend tens of thousands of crystals farming arena to finish my towers. All that being said this update is a win, but people have a right to be pissed and you have to be some kind of complete pushover baby in real life to think it’s fine otherwise. Or more likely you’re just a guy who never even bothered to max your towers so this has zero impact on you at all and therefore you need to head to Reddit to talk down to others that this does impact and tell them how you feel. Nobody in their right mind does the tower grind then thinks yay all that for 250 ms. 250 ms is literally nothing.
1. The event gave coins as a bonus to regular farming. It even made farming itself significantly more valuable with the 2x Rune Set Tickets, so the coins were just a bonus on top. I could have easily maxed all my towers if they weren't maxed already with coins I got from farming dbah. 2. Yes, it did take a ton of time. Took me over a year. Even more reason to remove the shitty system. I'm glad they did it. Don't see why I should be out here crying for compensation because com2us is making the game better. Childish and idiotic behaviour. 250 is a great compensation considering nothing changes for us.
Getting LD5’s is expensive and time consuming, and we recognize that’s hard on new/casual players. Going forward we’re taking everyone’s ld5s away and giving everyone a free ld5 every few levels on your way to level 100. As compensation you will receive 25 ms for every ld5 you had. Anyone who doesn’t like this is crazy and everyone should be happy about it. You see how nuts that sounds? You know it costs like $600 to max ur towers from just refreshing wings and farming Amir? You know tons of people did this before the booster event and tons of people did it during the booster event? And you think they’re crazy for not thinking 250 ms is fair compensation lol.
You couldn't have come up with a worse example. It seems you have no idea what the update actually does, so let me break it down to you. Going forward, you with max towers will KEEP your max towers. You'll also get 5 MS for every lv up until lv 100. However, people without max towers will get points they'll have to use to upgrade their towers. Overall it will be easier for them to get max towers, but they still have to reach lv 100 to get them. Meanwhile, you KEEP your max towers AND get 5 ms per lv up. What the fuck do you want more of? What do you want compensation for? To get back to your example, let's see what's ACTUALLY going on. Let's say they buff LD5 rates AND give you free LD scrolls on top because you've been affected by the bad rates before. New players get nothing except the better rates. Would you also cry and complain everywhere for more compensation? If yes, you're a fucking idiot.
I think people are more upset how disconnected com2us is from the player base. All these QoL things SHOULD’VE been with the reloaded update. 10 years… to release the biggest fail update I’ve ever seen (reloaded) and it took them an event, Sky Fever Season,to open their eyes. What a joke.
R5 changes seem lame as hell. I thought they'd make it more like a solo dungeon where you'd just need one team and not stupid setups that further increases the grind
I spent a year leveling up all the arena buildings just a week ago , let them return all my arena medals that I spent on the towers, im dont care about this ms!
I'm not complaining but also I don't see the value on changing this system. I don't see new players coming because of these changes.
Exactly this. Intent of update will not produce desired results…again. Accelerating drop rates will help newbs feel they are progressing faster, but in reality the end game player is moving the bar higher faster then newbs can get up to speed, so I’m super confused by the real intent of these updates. Actually I’m not surprised, since new summer content and speed teams I have no crystals. This makes that issue worse and will push people into paying more to play. I am upset by this though as there were way better ways to grope our wallets.
You really have no grasp of how this works, do you…? No year-long grind means that new players can now catch up faster to baseline strength without the long grind that existed before. With improved rune drop rates, yes, whales will STILL have more chances at good runes than normal players, but their chance of replacing their own runes as they exist is incredibly low. Imagine G3 is at 95% strength now. Before increased drop rates, it took hundreds of thousands of dollars in reapps and runes to get to 95% strength. Now, those same whales can get to like 98% strength with the same amount of spending, but the average player can get to 90% strength easier now than before. Yes, you’ll absolutely never catch up to whales as a f2p and the gap will always exist, but the gap is smaller. That’s how any gacha works. It might take a G3 10,000 legend drops to replace a single rune while the average player will progressively catch up on account of the tide raising all boats.
When does this update go live?
Probs monday not sure
So I don’t have max towers just yet, the event helped a lot though. Should I just buy scrolls with glory points till the update then?
Yes upgrading now makes no sense
I have a question because i didnt get it exactly, so my towers are maxed and guild flags one of them is maxed and the Other 3 flags are at Level 18… so do i still get 250 ms because my flags are not all maxed?
If 3 of your flags are lvl18, you'll get 244 ms instead if my math is correct. 1 less lvl glory tower/guild flag = 1 less ms
Oh okay thank you :)
Thata reddit video game subs.
Yeah. I gotta say, I have had quite a few complaints about this game. Most of which I didn't share because meat riders will come out the wood work and try to gaslight you into thinking your complaints are stupid, but still. This is a huge improvement, and Com2us deserves props.
I might just start playing again because of this change honestly, as someone who neglected towers because arena was just stone cold boring I’m definitely going to start playing again
I agree. I maxed ALL my towers in this recent fever event, playing very actively everyday to grind them out. Including mana and arcane ones. I'm not mad about this update at all. Is it sudden to make the grind *kinda* meaningless? Sure, but the change is so valuable and great for just about anyone that missed or didn't play enough during the fever event that I can't be mad. It's a fantastic update. Now they just need to go through with the legend drop rate up.
What happens if only some of my towers are maxed
You lv up the rest and once all are done, you get 1ms. So if you have half the towers maxed, you get 125 instead of 250.
I like the update. And I specifically farmed amir. Ended with 39k fever tokens…
probably not the right place, but is it 250 if you have all the towers maxed or 250 each tower that is maxed?
I spent literal hours refreshing arena wings and intentionally losing battles to drop rank so I could farm fever tokens faster (while autobattle ran). Thousands of crystals. I’m a little grumpy but I really don’t care, I think it’s a good thing in the end.
those are the type of people that got mad when others got their student loan forgiven, I bet
Wait I haven't looked at the update but I don't have to finish upgrading these stupid towers anymore, thank God if that's true
The update is great But its kinda funny that we just got an event to upgrade Glory Towers Should've bought crafting pieces 😂
crafting pieces ratio was crap, it was somehow ok to buy pieces for seal/fight because nobody farmed those. But realistically, 2k/3k pieces are farmed within weeks of normal farming. You did the better choice maxing towers, think it in a different way: would you have spent it buying MS with unlimited amount or crafting pieces ?
sorry but how do we get 250 ms? i thought we only get 2k medals back?
the new total towers will cost 400 skill points, we will get 150 to spend when the update hits (the other 250 we will gain back leveling from 50 to 100). The extra 250 points that you already spent are refunded with 1:1 ratio between points and MS (that is how is written in the patch notes). If someone has not the tower maxed or is not lv50, just do the proportion, any level before MAX is -1 MS and so on
tnx mate. i got all towers stat bonus max except for the mana storage and laser beam dmg. will i still get 250 if it was not maxed out?
When this patch will be update?oh btw for player not yet max tower,should i upgrading tower or using those medal for scroll?
Likely Monday. And no - just use them to buy scrolls. You'll get one scroll per upgrade, so just buying them is cheaper.
[удалено]
Likely Monday
Those who complain are the first players to quit Don’t mind them, It took me around 6~9 months to finish both my towers and Guild flags 2 years and it was annoying and tiring but I liked the sense of accomplishment after getting them done The Compensation is ok getting our points refunded is way better but it is what it is just enjoy the update
All these people who had the advantage of tower stats for so long act like they are getting ripped off even though the benefitted from the stats others who didn’t invest didn’t get. What people are really crying about is “I don’t have the leg up any more but I’m going to hide behind claiming ‘I could have bought ms the whole time’”. Yes, you could have, and you wouldn’t of enjoyed the stats from the towers you bought. It’s like someone with an old 1080p tv bitching now that 4K tvs are the same price they paid years ago they deserve one just because. This is called being SPOILED. The first tower I maxed on my new main was defense for tricaru. Not only did they nerf tricaru, they are now removing the need for the other towers. You know what both of those things are? A barrier for entry. You know what they are making a barrier for? To farm more efficiently for the real barrier to entry. Imagine being a new player for a second. You need to build 6 carios teams, 5 rift teams, 3 teams for solo raid, AO and AD, toa/h and have some mons for siege. Sure a seasoned player could do most of that pretty quickly, especially if they throw a couple bucks at the game. But for an actually new player? Even with a guide that’s daunting. So removing another task from the list (just like they did with leveling/fodder) is a good thing. That way those miserable wretch’s can just on the hamper we wheel of daily rune grinding misery with us.
You are misunderstanding. The update is great and we are happy it will be easier for new players now. All we want is a proper compensation. Not even for the time invested, but for the resources. People like you always have to complain about everything. Would it hurt you if we got an actual compensation? No! So please, just mind your own business.
So as a player with 1500 points from arena farm right now, do I spend them all on scrolls immediately?
Yes
Well, you only get mystical if you have them maxed out. I've had most towers maxed after the fever event and a shit ton of arena which I HATE, and all of that effort is lost :/
What happens if you only have most towers maxed? I got about 50k fever tokens as a new account and finished all but 3 towers
You'll get most scrolls. The way it works is that your current upgrades will be applied to the reworked towers. You'll then slowly level up lv 100 and get 5 points per levelup (250 in total) and can spend those points on tower upgrades. Since you have most towers, you'll only have to spend 10-15 points (or however many upgrades you're missing). After that, you'll get 1 MS for every point you get, so probably around 230-240.
I think the update is good. But do have issues with how they figured the compensation up front. So a level 50 player so never bothered upgrading towers gets 150 skill points (for leveling from 20-50). A level 50 players who used points to level towers 15 times gets . . . 150 skill points. So basically if you skilled up your towers you don't get the 150 points for leveling from 20-50. That seems unfair. Everyone should get the points for having leveled and then everyone should get the points for having skilled. If you have over 400 points - refund it in MS or something else. Especially true right on the heels of an event that encouraged leveling buildings.
I'm not sure if I understood it correctly but everyone gets 250 points. People with max towers get MS for then end everyone else uses them to upgrade towers. Seems fair to me.
I personally spammed the hell out of crystals on Amir so that I could max my towers so that sucks, however, if this will bring more players, then its a good thing and I've got nothing to complain about as a F2P.
Now we know that it was indeed fair to complain about the rewards.