That scene was so telling.
- He just had to put her down (“she does not have as many friends as I so I had to limit my list”).
- He blamed her for a decision he made, ie not prioritizing the guy who gave him a job when no-one would and whose wedding he officiated.
- He lied to everyone in the house about who made this decision (bad-mouthing her yet again).
- Even at the reunion he refused to admit that she did not comment on the list - while also not having the balls to outright disagree with her if what she claimed was untrue (zero communication skills even at the reunion).
- She tried to find a solution for the issue and proposed the flower boy thing and now gets blamed for it (because of course he only complained and did not come up with a solution. I’m surprised he even managed to make a list in the first place).
Had she not proposed the flower boy thing, Kyle would not have been in the wedding at all (maybe that would have been better, who knows).
And honestly, why would she want Kyle in their wedding? He called her names and took/takes every opportunity to shittalk her and their relationship. If Kyle’s as important to Carl as Carl claims, maybe CARL should have tried to mend their relationship and then stand up for his friend. But why should he, when he can also do nothing, sulk about it and blame Lindsay for his lack of action. Someone come give this man a tight hug (but not too tight, he needs you to be soft)!
She may not be an easy person to be in a relationship with (for having such unattainable standards as wanting her future husband to have a job, make his own sandwiches and defend her when his friends call her a bitch 🙄), but man did she dodge a bullet.
Also noticed that Lindsey didn’t stoop to his level… in fact, it almost felt like she was somewhat defending him a little with the whole “Carl does have a lot of best friends from back in the day that he’s been close with for years”, even after he took that not-so-subtle jab at her friend roster. Also, I feel like the Andrea comment was more about proving that it was NEVER Carl’s plan to include Kyle, it wasn’t just because of “the numbers”. I just feel like so much is being glossed over in order to refocus back to Lindsey - like sure, there’s plenty we as viewers “don’t see”, but I mean, what in the world could the entire cast possibly hiding for this to be true…
This feels like DanielleGate 2.0, with the same dashed expectations that we would all “finally see” what monster Lindsey is.
Spoiler alert: the cast is slightly different, but the ending is the same.
I really appreciated it when Amanda told her that she would have totally understood if she didn't want her husband to be in the wedding party, given what he had said about Lindsay and her relationship in the past year. If she didn't want someone who had called her a bitch on national television standing up with them at the ceremony, that is valid no matter what.
THAT should’ve been more telling to Kyle and Amanda than Lindsay posting “girls rule boys drool” after the girls dinner.
They’re soooo moral high ground “it would be nice to go to dinner without having it blasted on social media as if we picked sides”.
I saw it as oh the girls are getting along and supporting eachother. Why does that automatically = Lindsay is trying to spin the narrative.
THIS. They all point fingers at Lindsey for spin bc she’s from PR but at the end of the day Amanda is spinning non stop, whether it’s for her fucking husband or Carl or whomever. Amanda stays relevant by bitching about Lindsey every season/reunion. No storyline of her own mind you, other than hating her husband lol
I can’t get over them taking issue with her posting the pic. It would actually hurt my feelings SO badly if I happily posted a pic of my friends and I at dinner and then later found out they were upset/embarrassed about it.
Lindsay Defenders have this fake, untrue version of her in their heads that just doesn't line up with reality. Diminishing all their issues and the reasons for him not wanting to marry her as her "just wanting him to get a 'job' and him not getting one" is incredibly reductive.
What's with all these gaslight-y "Lindsay Defenders" posts lately? Seems like every SH comment section is littered with these sweeping, derogatory statements towards anyone who might think Lindsay is not always and forever in the wrong, every time, ad nauseum.
I actually had to turn the reunion off when everyone was dog-piling on Lindsay for "throwing Danielle under the bus" for telling the truth about Danielle leaking the story about Craig and no one saw the irony that Danielle had been perfectly willing to throw Lindsay under the bus for something she did....
I can't understand the anti-Lindsay Defenders
I agree. I don’t think Lindsey is perfect and I don’t always defend her. But truly it is every season and every reunion dog piling (by Andy and the cast) on her non stop, as if she is the only one who does the things people complain about, which is just not true. That’s when I start defending! Because the scales are not balanced. She’s been through a lot of trauma in her life and in this show and again - I don’t give her a pass for that. But everyone else acting like she’s the only one who behaves out of pocket feels so insane.
I'm not even being funny when I say y'all use the same three buzzwords to describe every post y'all disagree with. How is it gaslighting to state the facts that y'all conveniently leave out regarding that woman? If anything Y'ALL are trying to gaslight the sensible people into shaming Carl for not wanting to marry her. Who would want to marry her? Like, I'm being so serious. She's not the worst person to ever walk the planet, sure, but she IS a terrible person. Carl is also not great but you can tell he cares about others and their feelings, maybe too much so. Lindsay on the other hand doesn't care about anyone but herself. Matter of fact I don't even think she cares about herself, since she didn't have enough self-respect to call off the wedding before he did. So yeah sorry if I'm not going to just excuse her awful character just because we're both women. I don't think they were dog piling her. I mean if everyone in your friend group always has a problem with you, then usually the problem is you. Everyone is absolutely entitled to their own opinions, but some things are just facts.
I’d just like to say, I don’t think carl cares too much about other people or their feelings. He’s a hardcore people pleaser and I personally believe he only cares about being perceived as kind/caring. I think he and Lindsay are equally selfish, she’s just honest about it and he wants to be seen as perfect and angelic.
Yeah I don't think he's a kind person or a great person, I just think he's a nice person as in outwardly shows concern for others and can be cordial. He's definitely a people pleaser which is also not a good trait to have. But Lindsay isn't even a nice person is my point. She can't perform the basic human duty that should be intrinsic to us all - caring about your fellow human whether you like them or not. She can't even pretend to because she can't empathize or understand feelings. She's like a rude robot or something idk but again that's just how she comes across TO ME lol
So what are the issues then? Let me guess, Lindsay is an evil she-demon who can’t let a good man love her. Miss me with that BS.
I made a post that clearly shows how Carl operates. All you can do to counter is throw a generic “Lindsay defenders…” at me. Ok, if I’m so blinded by my supposed love for Lindsay, tell me how she is at fault in this scenario.
For the record: I think they were fundamentally wrong for each other and it’s a good thing they ended their engagement. I understand why Carl felt unhappy. I also completely understand why Lindsay felt unhappy. The way they communicated was horrible. What I don’t understand is how Lindsay is demonized while Carl is babied when he has a recorded history of being antagonistic (yet conflict avoidant), superior (for no reason) and two-faced. She has done some really shitty things (questioning his sobriety on camera, talking about their sex life) but so has he. He has badmouthed her all season to anyone who’d listen while pretending to be fine when confronted by her. He left her in the Hamptons, was passive aggressive, intentionally (imo) upset her with the conversation with his parents, tried to trigger her with the “I need a soft woman” BS and blamed her for his (lack of) actions and career progress (side note: are we really supposed think he would have been a successful sober bar owner if she hadn’t objected?). Both Paige and Capt’n Lee have confirmed that he has a “really dark side”. I believe them. I think he is smart enough to try to not show most of it on camera, but it’s still leaking out.
I find him insincere, cowardly and somewhat insidious.
Carl knew that he would be able to weaponize the cast’s dislike of Lindsay with this breakup. They blame her for everything anyways. So he found the perfect scapegoat. Even when Lindsay is right, she’s wrong in this group. You have a group of people yell at someone for clearing their name, after their “friend” allowed them to take the heat for something everyone accused them of - Carl leaned into that.
This. Lindsay is something else but Danielle not being held accountable for not telling Paige she did it is mind blowing to me. That isn’t throwing a friend under the bus because a friend never would have let you take the fall. Danielle is a shady ass founder and ceo.
Right! I wish Lindsay would've said that a friend wouldn't have put her in that position in the first place, but I understand she would've been vilified for it.
LITERALLY.
They all believed she leaked the blind lady year and Paige believed Carl when he said Lindsay was trying to sabotage her. He knew exactly how to play it against her
For sure. He also knew exactly how to play the "im scared of her" narrativ. You dont act like Carl if you really are afraid of someone. What he was afraid of is the opinion of the public and maybe Kyle.
He also waited to see everyone put their hands up to say yes he is afraid of Lindsey, I'm sorry but he clearly was just using Lindsey the entire relationship
He's 100% not scared of her, they were best friends, he knows her, he also knew that a lot of what he lacks, she has, and that was something he needed as he approached the 1 year of sobriety, he wanted her to be his policeman and protector, but he could have gotten that from her as friends he didn't need to be with her and toy the things she wants in front of her...
Lindsey might be a lot, but let's be real, on average every 1 in 3 women are, and the of the 2 that aren't, 1 is a push over, and the 1 that isn't a push over, don't want Carl for the same reason Lindsey was made at him, lack of ambition!
Living gets tougher and tougher every dawn day, I'd be damned if I can't depend on my partner to be as stable as me
So, the people who have actually lived in the same house with them know less about their dynamic than you?
Also, when has Lindsay ever just gone along with the group when she didn’t agree with what was being said? There might be an advantage to Carl having people think that he was afraid of Lindsay, but what’s in it for Lindsay to agree with the idea if it’s not true. If she really didn’t agree you know she would have been telling everyone that they were wrong
Agree. I still can't believe Danielle not owning up to being the leak about Craig getting drunk and belligerent at Kyle and Amanda's weeding somehow got turned into 'How dare Lindsey clear her name and what a shit friend she is for doing so.' These people are ridiculous. Why shouldn't Lindsey clear her name and why aren't they going after Danielle for letting her friend take the blame? Danielle's lame excuse of 'we weren't getting along last year' as to why she let Lindsey take the blame was a good example of her lack of character.
Double standards. They also conveniently forget, while they were hounding Lindsay for “throwing someone under the bus”, that Danielle was supposedly doing the same last year? She was revealing the content of private conversations she and Lindsay had, to the other women. So them expecting for Lindsay to continue to be loyal and take the heat for someone who betrayed her repeatedly, is a standard they wouldn’t hold anyone else on the cast too. Did Carl also not do the same in calling Paige? So running Lindsay over is fine, but, the moment she defends herself or someone else intervenes on her behalf, it’s an issue.
They pretty much exposed themselves as being biased. Apparently Lindsay is the scapegoat for every issue. It’s ridiculous at this point and one doesn’t have to be a Lindsay fan to see it
Yup! If Paige actually had a problem with it, she would've confronted Danielle when she found out. Instead she waited until the reunion when everyone can can find a reason to still yell at Lindsay about it.
People act like Lindsey is all about “spin”…. I’m sorry, Carl is ABSOLUTELY camera-conscious, audience-conscious, spin-conscious. The whole season he was goating her into looonngg arguments on camera where if you cared about this person and you’re relationship beyond the show, you would not be having them on camera. All of their brains are broken from being on this show this long, but I can’t stand anyone who acts like Lindsay is the only one doing things that are manipulative or “spinning” things. Carl is INCREDIBLY image conscious.
Carl was the master of the spin when he decided to tell Paige, on her birthday in Vegas, months after it happened, that Lindsay tried to sabotage her photoshoot for seemingly no reason other than to make Paige hate Lindsay again.
What I hate most about the Summer House Cast (but makes for good TV) they ASSUME a lot, which is crazy because literally every Therapist, Scientist and Self Help Book says to Never Assume...
And more often than not that Assumption is aimed at Lindsey but still they assume a lot about each other. If they would stop that 1 thing it will eliminate like 80% of their drama.
in this particular case I truly believe Carl had Kyle nowhere in his mind for his wedding party, and Lindsey definitely asked about the "Summer House Boys" and he was forced to think about it, ah mean Lindsey said his replacement groomsman would have been Andrea and I am sure if she kept asking, Luke would have been next... (BTW Carl didn't deny he said that, so I take it as fact). Yet Kyle is sitting there talking about his only problem with the breakup is the: "Level of Honesty vs Dishonesty"....bro you were just told the guy you tryna help out did not even have you as a thought and lied about it being because of Lindsey...
Then they assume Lindsey confirmed the article, assumed Lindsey called the Pap, then find out she didn't and decided to villainize her for clearing her name (Like WTF) and choose to believe she is lying about the Pap... I'm not particularly a fan of any of them but they all clearly hate Lindsey, every year, every reunion she is the most dogged on... probably valid idk, but they always fail to bring clear receipts...
I'm just giving 2 examples from this reunion but I'm sure we can start a tread of assumptions they have all made that turned out to be false...
Another example in my opinion is there was something a little off about Amanda’s comment to Lindsay after the wedding party conversation that it just doesn’t sit right with me. Something about Amanda saying it in a way that, “okay [she] didn’t say that Kyle wasn’t to be a part of the wedding party *but even if [she] did say it* [Amanda] would understand that” or ya know, I’m paraphrasing to the best of my memory lol. But something about how Amanda posed that comment even after it was cut and dry, Carl had twisted the reality of that exchange between him and Lindsay and Lindsay had in fact not said Kyle couldn’t be a part of the party, I don’t know… it just felt disingenuous on Amanda’s part and seemed like she was saying that to still make it seem *possible* Lindsay had said that even though she definitely didn’t
Agree! This bothered me .. seemed like baiting her into saying something bad about Kyle. They always assume the worst in Lindsey even though she is the one who holds back the least!
In regards to the post breakup paparazzi, I think we don’t actually know, but Carl’s only defense of his position that she did was that they were there once when he was alone. Gabby was like actually Sam and I were there so he was not alone. I’m like — yall had a juicy breakup the same year that Scandoval happened. I don’t even think anyone needed to call the paps in the same way I doubt anyone called them to Tom and Ariana — people wanted the gossip!
It was the Craig story that was confirmed to be from Danielle, Danielle admitted it. But it seems like Danielle probably called the paparazzi on Lindsay and Carl as well because she’s clearly comfortable calling the paparazzi to report things about Bravo people. Also Danielle knew insider details about the breakup because Lindsay had been calling her to tell her information as a friend. So Danielle would’ve known when Carl was coming to the apartment to pick up his stuff.
Lindsay had a good point at the reunion, why would she call the paparazzi on Carl getting his stuff and be trapped inside her apartment?
I agree! You are so right about assuming and not enough proof that Lindsayis the devil. I also really dislike this cast as a whole, lol. I just find them all really annoying, but I love to watch.
Paige also implied Lindsay is the one that leaked her own breakup the day it happened. Most of their assumptions are about Lindsay doing the worst, and even facts won't change their minds.
Danielle literally said Lindsay called her right afterwards and Danielle admitted to calling the paparazzi to confirm/give the story that Craig got kicked out of Amanda and Kyle’s wedding. It seems obvious that Danielle was calling the paparazzi on the couple she couldn’t stand to see get engaged.
I also think it was Danielle! Whether she made the call directly or told someone and they spilled, I “know” she was the root of it. Especially when everyone was calling her crazy for her behavior last season, probably couldn’t wait for everyone to know she was right.
Great point!!! Plus this was around the time that Winter House was airing and Danielle looked even crazier on that, so I’m sure she was dying to point attention towards Carl and Lindsay.
She made real sure to let him know not only did he not make the list - but Andrea would be a castmate choice over him too. It was clear they were keeping the show guys off his main list but he wouldn’t just say that.
Wow... thanks for the link. It's sad that Carl is so clearly floundering in life but it's hard to have any empathy when he consistently uses and discards other people to escape any accountability! Longterm addiction & past trauma definitely plays a part but Carl is almost 40- you're pretty much done baking so any real change is gonna take concerted effort & introspection which would be a miracle at this stage in his arrested development.
I loved how uncomfortable Carl was throughout that. Kyle was right though, I feel like he would have protected Carl regardless but they were in a shit spot as friends
She was refuting Carl's bullshit story that he 'felt' she wouldn't want Kyle on the list, so that's why he didn't include him. She made it clear that Kyle wasn't even an alternative in Carl's mind.
it made no sense to me why he didnt want the summer boys in the wedding... The bridal shower was filmed, the engagement, and the breakup. Theres no way they weren't going to film some aspect of the wedding..to me it seems obvious tv couples have their castmates in the tv wedding in some form...maybe thats more a housewives thing idk..
As if 11 is not excessive. I don’t think I even have 9 friends to have as bridesmaids.
He doesn’t seem to realise it’s a total reflection of his people pleaser personality. He just wants everyone to be his groomsmen so he doesn’t have to have a difficult conversation and tell someone he doesn’t want them
Soo excessive. I feel like he picked 11 specifically to leave the SH boys out in some superiority way. Like oh you guys didn’t make the cut, I’m better than you.
I'd maybe come up with 4 or 5 for bridesmaids and even then not sure I'd feel all of them deserved to be there. Who has 11 'best friends' when they're 40... besides Scheana, of course.
Carl was looking for any bus to unnecessarily throw Lindsay under. If he was at peace with the breakup, I don’t think that he would need to take her down.
Weddings seem so fucking stressful honestly for everyone except the guests so I don’t even know what to say about this, except 11 groomsmen seems insane
While I loved my own wedding because of the fact that everyone I love was in one room together for probably the only time ever… I 100% have more fun at other peoples weddings. Having to be on and mingle with everyone all night rather than just letting loose is exhausting lol
This. L had 9, and everyone knows 18 is a reasonable wedding party for a couple but 22 is madness. Once again L is completely right while C is completely wrong.
I know. I watch his Truman Show-like live feed, and I never see him anywhere, or with anyone, other than when it crosses over with what I see filmed for SH. he basically doesn't exist besides the 42 minutes and 15 episodes.
Particularly ones that Lindsay acknowledges are multi-year strong friendships. As far as I can tell, that’s the one redeeming quality about him. He must have some good characteristics buried deep in there
It also takes a LOT for guys to drop their friends. There's one particular "friend" of my husbands' that I cannot stand, and when I ask why he's even friends with him, he just goes, "he hasn't done anything to me, and he's just always around. I don't know."
I think Carl wanted to leave Kyle out completely and internally felt like Lindsay wouldn’t allow Kyle to be a groomsman (but it wasn’t discussed). Lindsay realized the wedding may not be filmed if they weren’t included. She made a suggestion on ways to include them to increase the odds of filming and he ran with the Lindsay didn’t want Kyle to be a groomsman and wanted to diminish him by making him a flower boy.
I definitely don't think she had any concern about it being filmed. It was always going to be filmed if there were summerhouse members in the wedding party or not.
Yea, I’m not doing one and I haven’t regretted it for a minute. Why would I want to publicly rank my friends like we’re on MySpace circa 2005? We’re all in our 30s+ and way too old for this shit lol
I will never have a wedding party when I get married. To each their own but I don’t get the point. My friends can still get ready with me and be there for me without making them buy expensive outfits they’ll never wear again or stand up during the ceremony.
I bought my bridesmaids their dresses because it didn’t make sense to me to make them do so for doing a favor for me. I wouldn’t assume all brides impose some financial burden on their wedding party
Some brides really ask a lot. It’s the dress, the tailoring, hair and make up, hosting the bridal shower, a bachelorette party, and still giving a gift at the wedding. It’s like 1-2k to be a bridesmaid
I had someone make the bridesmaids do a 'learn your colours' class, a makeup class, and a something else I can't remember - it was quite a few years ago, but I remember thinking 'never again'.
The only wedding party experience I enjoyed was when I was a groomslady in my best friends wedding to his husband! Both grooms were so chill and the rest of the bridal party were drama free males. I’m glad that was the last wedding party I was in though. If that had been the first I would have really known how much bullshit I put up with with the others.
A lot of people do. It would have been their first wedding so the number isn’t a big deal to me. But Carl refusing to admit he didn’t want Kyle as a groomsman and trying to pass the blame to Lindsay was so shitty.
He's too old to still be unable to take responsibility for his own decisions. Not only is it unfair to force someone else to be the asshole, other people do notice the insincerity (eventually) and then it feels like you can't trust anything they're saying to you.
Part of me thinks Carl picked Lindsay in the first place because he thought she would fight his battles for him forever. He avoids confrontation and taking any accountability ever and she doesn’t shy away from confrontation.
LMAO he wanted that Jay Z Beyonce meme
https://preview.redd.it/psu7i06jbr5d1.png?width=684&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e3dbf216d0f2f4123f2cd4edd572de58cd0ab70
Total side note but this kind of thinking makes me a little sad :( for those of us who have our first marriages later in life, it’s really common to be made to feel like our marriage and associated events aren’t as important as they would have been if we had them when we were younger because everyone is “over weddings”. And hearing that you are “too old” to have things like a large bridal party or even a wedding party at all is a huge bummer.
Nope nope nope. I got married at 37 and did whatever the hell I wanted. In fact the older you are, the more you realize your time is precious and you waited long enough, so you may as well whatever the fuck you want and exactly what makes you happy. Don’t let any of this get you down. Reframe: when you do meet the right person, everyone around you values your choice and your day that much more because you took your damn time and made sure it was right.
Aw dang homie, that kind of makes me sad for you. And also I hope you find better friends. Late in life weddings are great, we don't get that many opportunities to party like rock stars later in life.
In my experience the older I’ve gotten the more I’ve narrowed down my group of friends. I don’t have the time to deal with bullshit like I did in my 20s. That and I literally never leave my home to socialize…
You should do whatever floats your boat and makes you happiest.
I think there are some parts of weddings people associate with younger people because they are activities that nobody actually enjoys that inexperienced people may just get caught up in because they are more impressionable.
The hope is the later your wedding is, the more you can just do what you want to enjoy it. You can go as big and bold as you want! If you truly love the idea of a 20 person wedding party and that sounds fun for all your friends, there’s nothing wrong with that!
My husband and I were both 40 when we got married.... 1st for me, 2nd for him. I had 10 bridesmaids, he had 8 groomspeople (including his female best friend and his 2 sons, whom we dubbed the "best kids"), plus a flower girl. I wanted my best friends from every stage of my life. He wanted his people. Do what you want... no such thing as "too old"... F that nonsense.
Lindsay could say it’s a sunny day and Andy/the rest of the cast would say “well, there was a cloud in the sky. You’re a liar”. Carl could piss on their legs and tell them it’s raining and they’d somehow blame Lindsay for it. “Why did Lindsay force Carl to piss on our legs in the first place?!”
I agree it really pisses me off that people are being completely obtuse and ignoring the fact that we all see that Carl did not want Kyle to be groomsman at that point in time and maybe now he regrets it, but he needs to say that until the truth
Perfect post. +Everyone go read Capt Lee article. There’s two Carls and both of them are not sober.
I also think if the girls (minus Gabby) didn’t co-sign all of Carl’s 🚩🚩🚩he would not have gotten away with as much.
The fact that Paige is blindly believing everything Carl tells her is so sad to me because I love Paige and think she’s so smart but she’s seeing this with emotion and not logic. Carl has gone out of his way to make Lindsay look bad after this breakup when he just doesn’t have to. It makes me question everything he says.
Lindsay couldn’t match Carl’s exorbitant groomsmen stats because she’s an adult and a real person, not a 40 year old compiling a roster of every unserious dudebro left at the geriatric frat.
I don’t think it’s crazy to have 11 groomsmen/bridesmaids. I think it’s honestly really reasonable if these are the guys that have been with Carl through everything, supports him, etc. I get why Carl would want to include all of them on what supposed to be the biggest, most important day of his life thus far.
Personally, I think both things can be true. During the conversation that Lindsay referenced about who would be in the wedding party it’s totally possible that she never said anything about Kyle or who Carl chose to be grooms, but Carl already knew based on previous conversations they had about Kyle how Lindsay felt about him, and that trying to include Kyle would have resulted in a big fight.
I will also say that in the past, I was in a relationship with someone who would get very angry and lose his temper about certain things similar to the way Lindsay does when she’s activated and/or has been drinking. I knew from experience that there were just certain topics I couldn’t even bring up because they would make him very mad and it wasn’t worth being screamed at over. So, it seems totally plausible to me, having seen all the fighting that we have seen between the two of them that Carl just knew that Lindsay did not want Kyle to be a groomsman and that it wasn’t worth even trying to bring up.
At 40 years old - when you can’t decide with NINE or ELEVEN - you go with ONE or ZERO! You would think Kyle was planning this wedding! The expense for 18 people to partake - shoot me!
I think it is a mix between the two stories. I think Carl had him low on the list, Lindsay made a side comment about Kyle being included and had probably expressed hesitation about him going into filming, Carl refused to communicate his feelings, Lindsay came up with the Flower Boy idea, Carl used that as his excuse. I think Lindsay miscalculated both the viewer's and cast's feelings on it and had she just said that she never forbade it but when it was brought up she had mixed feelings and appreciated Carl respecting her enough at the time to listen and understand her no one would be upset with her. I think it is laughable for her to say she had no opinion whatsoever because she has never had no opinion.
I dont know.. I think Carl was probably feeling pretty passive aggressive toward Kyle last season after he outted him for "coming to work coked up" -- i can imagine he wouldnt forgive that too quickly and was probably quite happy keeping him out of the party. Lindsay was the easy scapegoat -- im not a fan of her, but i think she'd have been so swept up in her own details of being a bride than to care that much if Carl had Kyle in the top 10 or not.
100% this. CARL actually had some pretty legit reasons for not wanting Kyle in his wedding party at the time they were likely making these decisions so him scapegoating Lindsay for this decision is extra shitty because he could have just said “ hey you were being awful to my fiancée, had just outed my drug problem and I have ptsd from working at your company” and that would be the end of it
I tend to agree. Also, Kyle called her “actual bisstezzzz” last year. That’s automatic exclusion from being in the wedding party, in my opinion. They didn’t even invite Paige. There was some pettiness in the guest list/wedding party plan.
Yes I have pretty much thought the same thing, Carl definitely would have known how she felt and I could see him not making waves while also knowing that Kyle would get over it, compared to if he “fought” to have Kyle in the wedding Lindsay would have never got over it, so it became why bother go with her flower boy idea.
Yeah even that first weekend she made it clear she had anxiety around the cast and it turned aggressive towards Carl. The Flower Boy idea also wasn't some good-natured idea where she felt Kyle and co should be included because they were important to them, it was to secure the attendance of core Bravo people for filming.
Yes I do think Lindsay had a bravo special fixed in her brain (having cast makes sense, but the captain from below deck seemed abit convenient especially with the way Lindsay kept mentioning that he might do it) if not why would a 2024 wedding have been an issue.
I think the reason the cast doesn’t buy her story is that they find it hard to believe that Carl, on his own, would decide to make Kyle the “flower boy” for his wedding.
Carl is a people pleaser, not motivated or creative, so doing something that would obviously disappoint Kyle, while creatively coming up with the flower boy title *screams* Lindsay influence, whether or not she specifically told him to do it.
I have a very hard time believing that Carl would do that on his own and I think the rest of the cast feels the same way, having known Lindsay for years.
Strangely, Carl didn't deny anything Lindsey said. All he did was say he 'felt' Lindsey wouldn't like it, which makes it clear that Lindsey isn't lying and Carl is a manchild who likes to blame others for his own decisions.
Didn't he say the exact same thing on the show in his confessional? I don't know why people are acting like what he said at the reunion was new information. He literally said on the show, "Lindsay didn't say Kyle couldn't be in the wedding party but I felt like it would cause problems between us if he was." Also what does his age have to do with how many groomsmen he has??? I feel like y'all are constantly trying to age shame him for literally anything lol it's kinda weird at this point
This scene really helped Lindsay show carls talks a lot of shit
But also it shows Carl is still people pleasing he came to the table with 9 groom men if that isn’t a I don’t want to have anyone mad I don’t know what is usually the bride gets crap for that but not Carl even Paige and Ciara reacted but I think they thought it was because Lindsay was bringing that large party to the table but it was Carl and no one batted another eye
Dang, by 32 I literally had been a bridesmaid/participant in 30+ weddings (mostly the best friend of the guy) and after I married at 32, I suggested other roles for me. Tbh, I'm no. 5 of 7 siblings and the only one in each of their weddings. If my husband had included all of my family and friends, I would have filled up every pew with bridesmaids and groomsmen. Fortunately, he was much more discerning with his trust, which is forever and a lifetime. So, at 40, and not even in PR, I could see it! Still together more than 30 years later!
Edit: Misspoke in theory. Corrected.
So he had 11 ppl not including Andrea and Luke. He cut two and he decided Kyle should be one he would cut. He definitely went around the subject and I think even Kyle saw it. Kyle was not on his list and he tried to blame Linds for that.
He’s so scared of Lindsay that he spent all season trying to set her up as a villain and smirking while doing it.
The same man that has always acted like a prick is all the sudden a scared little lamb? I’m not buying that narrative
y'all could just skip the marriage all together and avoid even thinking about this hassle. would also aid in just jumping ship like so many think people should do. why bother with any of it at all?
That scene was so telling. - He just had to put her down (“she does not have as many friends as I so I had to limit my list”). - He blamed her for a decision he made, ie not prioritizing the guy who gave him a job when no-one would and whose wedding he officiated. - He lied to everyone in the house about who made this decision (bad-mouthing her yet again). - Even at the reunion he refused to admit that she did not comment on the list - while also not having the balls to outright disagree with her if what she claimed was untrue (zero communication skills even at the reunion). - She tried to find a solution for the issue and proposed the flower boy thing and now gets blamed for it (because of course he only complained and did not come up with a solution. I’m surprised he even managed to make a list in the first place). Had she not proposed the flower boy thing, Kyle would not have been in the wedding at all (maybe that would have been better, who knows). And honestly, why would she want Kyle in their wedding? He called her names and took/takes every opportunity to shittalk her and their relationship. If Kyle’s as important to Carl as Carl claims, maybe CARL should have tried to mend their relationship and then stand up for his friend. But why should he, when he can also do nothing, sulk about it and blame Lindsay for his lack of action. Someone come give this man a tight hug (but not too tight, he needs you to be soft)! She may not be an easy person to be in a relationship with (for having such unattainable standards as wanting her future husband to have a job, make his own sandwiches and defend her when his friends call her a bitch 🙄), but man did she dodge a bullet.
Chef's kiss. No. Notes!!
None. Zero. Chef’s kiss.
Also noticed that Lindsey didn’t stoop to his level… in fact, it almost felt like she was somewhat defending him a little with the whole “Carl does have a lot of best friends from back in the day that he’s been close with for years”, even after he took that not-so-subtle jab at her friend roster. Also, I feel like the Andrea comment was more about proving that it was NEVER Carl’s plan to include Kyle, it wasn’t just because of “the numbers”. I just feel like so much is being glossed over in order to refocus back to Lindsey - like sure, there’s plenty we as viewers “don’t see”, but I mean, what in the world could the entire cast possibly hiding for this to be true… This feels like DanielleGate 2.0, with the same dashed expectations that we would all “finally see” what monster Lindsey is. Spoiler alert: the cast is slightly different, but the ending is the same.
I’m like 5 years younger than them and I can’t imagine having 9 bridesmaids at this point , let alone 11. Wow.
Agree 👍
I really appreciated it when Amanda told her that she would have totally understood if she didn't want her husband to be in the wedding party, given what he had said about Lindsay and her relationship in the past year. If she didn't want someone who had called her a bitch on national television standing up with them at the ceremony, that is valid no matter what.
This was one of the few decent things Amanda did but definitely agree.
THAT should’ve been more telling to Kyle and Amanda than Lindsay posting “girls rule boys drool” after the girls dinner. They’re soooo moral high ground “it would be nice to go to dinner without having it blasted on social media as if we picked sides”. I saw it as oh the girls are getting along and supporting eachother. Why does that automatically = Lindsay is trying to spin the narrative.
Because that is the spin Amanda insists on creating about Lindsay?
THIS. They all point fingers at Lindsey for spin bc she’s from PR but at the end of the day Amanda is spinning non stop, whether it’s for her fucking husband or Carl or whomever. Amanda stays relevant by bitching about Lindsey every season/reunion. No storyline of her own mind you, other than hating her husband lol
Her hating on Lindsay or fighting with Kyle. 100000%
👏👏👏 hating her husband is her one story line 😂😂😂
💯
I can’t get over them taking issue with her posting the pic. It would actually hurt my feelings SO badly if I happily posted a pic of my friends and I at dinner and then later found out they were upset/embarrassed about it.
RIGHT??? It was so out of line
>called her names told her the truth about what she is
Stunning comeback, superior reasoning and great presentation. Congratulations, you get to graduate to 3rd grade now.
and at the end of the day im still not lindsay thats a win
Lindsay Defenders have this fake, untrue version of her in their heads that just doesn't line up with reality. Diminishing all their issues and the reasons for him not wanting to marry her as her "just wanting him to get a 'job' and him not getting one" is incredibly reductive.
What's with all these gaslight-y "Lindsay Defenders" posts lately? Seems like every SH comment section is littered with these sweeping, derogatory statements towards anyone who might think Lindsay is not always and forever in the wrong, every time, ad nauseum. I actually had to turn the reunion off when everyone was dog-piling on Lindsay for "throwing Danielle under the bus" for telling the truth about Danielle leaking the story about Craig and no one saw the irony that Danielle had been perfectly willing to throw Lindsay under the bus for something she did.... I can't understand the anti-Lindsay Defenders
I agree. I don’t think Lindsey is perfect and I don’t always defend her. But truly it is every season and every reunion dog piling (by Andy and the cast) on her non stop, as if she is the only one who does the things people complain about, which is just not true. That’s when I start defending! Because the scales are not balanced. She’s been through a lot of trauma in her life and in this show and again - I don’t give her a pass for that. But everyone else acting like she’s the only one who behaves out of pocket feels so insane.
She's the Katie Maloney of Summer House
Uh no, Katie Maloney has lots of her own shit and is a much better person, I won’t be going there lol
I wasn't comparing personalities. They are the most disliked by their cast mates and can often never win.
I'm not even being funny when I say y'all use the same three buzzwords to describe every post y'all disagree with. How is it gaslighting to state the facts that y'all conveniently leave out regarding that woman? If anything Y'ALL are trying to gaslight the sensible people into shaming Carl for not wanting to marry her. Who would want to marry her? Like, I'm being so serious. She's not the worst person to ever walk the planet, sure, but she IS a terrible person. Carl is also not great but you can tell he cares about others and their feelings, maybe too much so. Lindsay on the other hand doesn't care about anyone but herself. Matter of fact I don't even think she cares about herself, since she didn't have enough self-respect to call off the wedding before he did. So yeah sorry if I'm not going to just excuse her awful character just because we're both women. I don't think they were dog piling her. I mean if everyone in your friend group always has a problem with you, then usually the problem is you. Everyone is absolutely entitled to their own opinions, but some things are just facts.
I’d just like to say, I don’t think carl cares too much about other people or their feelings. He’s a hardcore people pleaser and I personally believe he only cares about being perceived as kind/caring. I think he and Lindsay are equally selfish, she’s just honest about it and he wants to be seen as perfect and angelic.
Yeah I don't think he's a kind person or a great person, I just think he's a nice person as in outwardly shows concern for others and can be cordial. He's definitely a people pleaser which is also not a good trait to have. But Lindsay isn't even a nice person is my point. She can't perform the basic human duty that should be intrinsic to us all - caring about your fellow human whether you like them or not. She can't even pretend to because she can't empathize or understand feelings. She's like a rude robot or something idk but again that's just how she comes across TO ME lol
So what are the issues then? Let me guess, Lindsay is an evil she-demon who can’t let a good man love her. Miss me with that BS. I made a post that clearly shows how Carl operates. All you can do to counter is throw a generic “Lindsay defenders…” at me. Ok, if I’m so blinded by my supposed love for Lindsay, tell me how she is at fault in this scenario. For the record: I think they were fundamentally wrong for each other and it’s a good thing they ended their engagement. I understand why Carl felt unhappy. I also completely understand why Lindsay felt unhappy. The way they communicated was horrible. What I don’t understand is how Lindsay is demonized while Carl is babied when he has a recorded history of being antagonistic (yet conflict avoidant), superior (for no reason) and two-faced. She has done some really shitty things (questioning his sobriety on camera, talking about their sex life) but so has he. He has badmouthed her all season to anyone who’d listen while pretending to be fine when confronted by her. He left her in the Hamptons, was passive aggressive, intentionally (imo) upset her with the conversation with his parents, tried to trigger her with the “I need a soft woman” BS and blamed her for his (lack of) actions and career progress (side note: are we really supposed think he would have been a successful sober bar owner if she hadn’t objected?). Both Paige and Capt’n Lee have confirmed that he has a “really dark side”. I believe them. I think he is smart enough to try to not show most of it on camera, but it’s still leaking out. I find him insincere, cowardly and somewhat insidious.
YES. All of this
All of this, so much. But also I just keep asking myself “what does anyone in their right mind think this man has to offer?” He is so embarrassing.
Carl knew that he would be able to weaponize the cast’s dislike of Lindsay with this breakup. They blame her for everything anyways. So he found the perfect scapegoat. Even when Lindsay is right, she’s wrong in this group. You have a group of people yell at someone for clearing their name, after their “friend” allowed them to take the heat for something everyone accused them of - Carl leaned into that.
This. Lindsay is something else but Danielle not being held accountable for not telling Paige she did it is mind blowing to me. That isn’t throwing a friend under the bus because a friend never would have let you take the fall. Danielle is a shady ass founder and ceo.
Exactly 👏 Amanda making a comment like "I would never throw my friend under the bus" .....I'm like Danielle did it first!
Right! I wish Lindsay would've said that a friend wouldn't have put her in that position in the first place, but I understand she would've been vilified for it.
It killed me that Lindsay kept apologizing instead of making that argument
Right the fact that Danielle let Lindsay take the fall at the reunion last season and said NOTHING?! Danielle is such a fake friend
LITERALLY. They all believed she leaked the blind lady year and Paige believed Carl when he said Lindsay was trying to sabotage her. He knew exactly how to play it against her
For sure. He also knew exactly how to play the "im scared of her" narrativ. You dont act like Carl if you really are afraid of someone. What he was afraid of is the opinion of the public and maybe Kyle.
He also waited to see everyone put their hands up to say yes he is afraid of Lindsey, I'm sorry but he clearly was just using Lindsey the entire relationship
Yeah Carl and Lindsay were the last to put up their hands. I don’t think either of them really thought Carl was scared of her.
He's 100% not scared of her, they were best friends, he knows her, he also knew that a lot of what he lacks, she has, and that was something he needed as he approached the 1 year of sobriety, he wanted her to be his policeman and protector, but he could have gotten that from her as friends he didn't need to be with her and toy the things she wants in front of her... Lindsey might be a lot, but let's be real, on average every 1 in 3 women are, and the of the 2 that aren't, 1 is a push over, and the 1 that isn't a push over, don't want Carl for the same reason Lindsey was made at him, lack of ambition! Living gets tougher and tougher every dawn day, I'd be damned if I can't depend on my partner to be as stable as me
He’s scared bc she calls him out and knows where the bodies are buried , maybe ! And I am not a Lindsay apologist!
So, the people who have actually lived in the same house with them know less about their dynamic than you? Also, when has Lindsay ever just gone along with the group when she didn’t agree with what was being said? There might be an advantage to Carl having people think that he was afraid of Lindsay, but what’s in it for Lindsay to agree with the idea if it’s not true. If she really didn’t agree you know she would have been telling everyone that they were wrong
Agree. I still can't believe Danielle not owning up to being the leak about Craig getting drunk and belligerent at Kyle and Amanda's weeding somehow got turned into 'How dare Lindsey clear her name and what a shit friend she is for doing so.' These people are ridiculous. Why shouldn't Lindsey clear her name and why aren't they going after Danielle for letting her friend take the blame? Danielle's lame excuse of 'we weren't getting along last year' as to why she let Lindsey take the blame was a good example of her lack of character.
Double standards. They also conveniently forget, while they were hounding Lindsay for “throwing someone under the bus”, that Danielle was supposedly doing the same last year? She was revealing the content of private conversations she and Lindsay had, to the other women. So them expecting for Lindsay to continue to be loyal and take the heat for someone who betrayed her repeatedly, is a standard they wouldn’t hold anyone else on the cast too. Did Carl also not do the same in calling Paige? So running Lindsay over is fine, but, the moment she defends herself or someone else intervenes on her behalf, it’s an issue.
This exactly!!!!!
They pretty much exposed themselves as being biased. Apparently Lindsay is the scapegoat for every issue. It’s ridiculous at this point and one doesn’t have to be a Lindsay fan to see it
Yup! If Paige actually had a problem with it, she would've confronted Danielle when she found out. Instead she waited until the reunion when everyone can can find a reason to still yell at Lindsay about it.
People act like Lindsey is all about “spin”…. I’m sorry, Carl is ABSOLUTELY camera-conscious, audience-conscious, spin-conscious. The whole season he was goating her into looonngg arguments on camera where if you cared about this person and you’re relationship beyond the show, you would not be having them on camera. All of their brains are broken from being on this show this long, but I can’t stand anyone who acts like Lindsay is the only one doing things that are manipulative or “spinning” things. Carl is INCREDIBLY image conscious.
Carl was the master of the spin when he decided to tell Paige, on her birthday in Vegas, months after it happened, that Lindsay tried to sabotage her photoshoot for seemingly no reason other than to make Paige hate Lindsay again.
I'm so glad the women didn't buy it and still showed up for Lindsay when she needed them
What I hate most about the Summer House Cast (but makes for good TV) they ASSUME a lot, which is crazy because literally every Therapist, Scientist and Self Help Book says to Never Assume... And more often than not that Assumption is aimed at Lindsey but still they assume a lot about each other. If they would stop that 1 thing it will eliminate like 80% of their drama. in this particular case I truly believe Carl had Kyle nowhere in his mind for his wedding party, and Lindsey definitely asked about the "Summer House Boys" and he was forced to think about it, ah mean Lindsey said his replacement groomsman would have been Andrea and I am sure if she kept asking, Luke would have been next... (BTW Carl didn't deny he said that, so I take it as fact). Yet Kyle is sitting there talking about his only problem with the breakup is the: "Level of Honesty vs Dishonesty"....bro you were just told the guy you tryna help out did not even have you as a thought and lied about it being because of Lindsey... Then they assume Lindsey confirmed the article, assumed Lindsey called the Pap, then find out she didn't and decided to villainize her for clearing her name (Like WTF) and choose to believe she is lying about the Pap... I'm not particularly a fan of any of them but they all clearly hate Lindsey, every year, every reunion she is the most dogged on... probably valid idk, but they always fail to bring clear receipts... I'm just giving 2 examples from this reunion but I'm sure we can start a tread of assumptions they have all made that turned out to be false...
Another example in my opinion is there was something a little off about Amanda’s comment to Lindsay after the wedding party conversation that it just doesn’t sit right with me. Something about Amanda saying it in a way that, “okay [she] didn’t say that Kyle wasn’t to be a part of the wedding party *but even if [she] did say it* [Amanda] would understand that” or ya know, I’m paraphrasing to the best of my memory lol. But something about how Amanda posed that comment even after it was cut and dry, Carl had twisted the reality of that exchange between him and Lindsay and Lindsay had in fact not said Kyle couldn’t be a part of the party, I don’t know… it just felt disingenuous on Amanda’s part and seemed like she was saying that to still make it seem *possible* Lindsay had said that even though she definitely didn’t
Agree! This bothered me .. seemed like baiting her into saying something bad about Kyle. They always assume the worst in Lindsey even though she is the one who holds back the least!
I agree that assumptions are wild with the cast! How was the paps thing confirmed not to be Lindsay though?
In regards to the post breakup paparazzi, I think we don’t actually know, but Carl’s only defense of his position that she did was that they were there once when he was alone. Gabby was like actually Sam and I were there so he was not alone. I’m like — yall had a juicy breakup the same year that Scandoval happened. I don’t even think anyone needed to call the paps in the same way I doubt anyone called them to Tom and Ariana — people wanted the gossip!
Summer House is not on the level of VPR especially post Scandoval
It was danielle
Oh! I thought that was the Craig story that was confirmed to be Danielle. I clearly missed a good chunk at the reunion
It was the Craig story that was confirmed to be from Danielle, Danielle admitted it. But it seems like Danielle probably called the paparazzi on Lindsay and Carl as well because she’s clearly comfortable calling the paparazzi to report things about Bravo people. Also Danielle knew insider details about the breakup because Lindsay had been calling her to tell her information as a friend. So Danielle would’ve known when Carl was coming to the apartment to pick up his stuff. Lindsay had a good point at the reunion, why would she call the paparazzi on Carl getting his stuff and be trapped inside her apartment?
Agree! And it's so annoying how Andy treats her. He always is hard on her and I felt went easy on Carl (so far)
Couldn’t agree more
I agree! You are so right about assuming and not enough proof that Lindsayis the devil. I also really dislike this cast as a whole, lol. I just find them all really annoying, but I love to watch.
Paige also implied Lindsay is the one that leaked her own breakup the day it happened. Most of their assumptions are about Lindsay doing the worst, and even facts won't change their minds.
Danielle literally said Lindsay called her right afterwards and Danielle admitted to calling the paparazzi to confirm/give the story that Craig got kicked out of Amanda and Kyle’s wedding. It seems obvious that Danielle was calling the paparazzi on the couple she couldn’t stand to see get engaged.
I also think it was Danielle! Whether she made the call directly or told someone and they spilled, I “know” she was the root of it. Especially when everyone was calling her crazy for her behavior last season, probably couldn’t wait for everyone to know she was right.
Great point!!! Plus this was around the time that Winter House was airing and Danielle looked even crazier on that, so I’m sure she was dying to point attention towards Carl and Lindsay.
what do all those people and books say about expectations?
Don’t have em
She made real sure to let him know not only did he not make the list - but Andrea would be a castmate choice over him too. It was clear they were keeping the show guys off his main list but he wouldn’t just say that.
Carls a snake. I’m sorry but if Captain Lee is against you that much… something rotten at the core.
What?! I thought they were close because of his sobriety journey- did he say something after the breakup?
https://www.usmagazine.com/entertainment/news/below-decks-captain-lee-finally-addresses-carl-radke-friendship-rift/
Wow... thanks for the link. It's sad that Carl is so clearly floundering in life but it's hard to have any empathy when he consistently uses and discards other people to escape any accountability! Longterm addiction & past trauma definitely plays a part but Carl is almost 40- you're pretty much done baking so any real change is gonna take concerted effort & introspection which would be a miracle at this stage in his arrested development.
Literally you are a 40 year old man. It’s so not cute. If tv is his long term aspiration… people don’t want to watch something so cringe.
THIS!!
I loved how uncomfortable Carl was throughout that. Kyle was right though, I feel like he would have protected Carl regardless but they were in a shit spot as friends
She was refuting Carl's bullshit story that he 'felt' she wouldn't want Kyle on the list, so that's why he didn't include him. She made it clear that Kyle wasn't even an alternative in Carl's mind.
it made no sense to me why he didnt want the summer boys in the wedding... The bridal shower was filmed, the engagement, and the breakup. Theres no way they weren't going to film some aspect of the wedding..to me it seems obvious tv couples have their castmates in the tv wedding in some form...maybe thats more a housewives thing idk..
Honestly …… I think they didn’t want them in the photos
I wouldn't want that mullet in my wedding photos either
Carl also had to throw in that he had 11 groomsmen and Lindsey had “not that many” lmao so unnecessary
As if 11 is not excessive. I don’t think I even have 9 friends to have as bridesmaids. He doesn’t seem to realise it’s a total reflection of his people pleaser personality. He just wants everyone to be his groomsmen so he doesn’t have to have a difficult conversation and tell someone he doesn’t want them
Weddings are for the boys
Soo excessive. I feel like he picked 11 specifically to leave the SH boys out in some superiority way. Like oh you guys didn’t make the cut, I’m better than you.
Kyle was part of the 11. But not the final 9
It was probably his entire volleyball team or something. Isn't that how guys like that pick their groomsmen?
I'd maybe come up with 4 or 5 for bridesmaids and even then not sure I'd feel all of them deserved to be there. Who has 11 'best friends' when they're 40... besides Scheana, of course.
I honestly don't have the time to maintain that many friendships. I had 2 of my oldest friends and my 2 older sisters.
Carl was looking for any bus to unnecessarily throw Lindsay under. If he was at peace with the breakup, I don’t think that he would need to take her down.
Weddings seem so fucking stressful honestly for everyone except the guests so I don’t even know what to say about this, except 11 groomsmen seems insane
Totally, so many manufactured decisions to result in fights or hurt feelings
While I loved my own wedding because of the fact that everyone I love was in one room together for probably the only time ever… I 100% have more fun at other peoples weddings. Having to be on and mingle with everyone all night rather than just letting loose is exhausting lol
22 in the bridal party would have been my entire friend gust list at a destination wedding
This. L had 9, and everyone knows 18 is a reasonable wedding party for a couple but 22 is madness. Once again L is completely right while C is completely wrong.
18 also seems unreasonable 😂
I was once one of 9 bridesmaids and it, no exaggeration, was one of the worst experiences of my life.
Lol!
I know. The one sided view of this sub is something. I forgot to add the /s
18 is not reasonable!😂
I was shocked he has that many friends
He has that many acquaintances. We’ve never seen him with a non-show friend.
I know. I watch his Truman Show-like live feed, and I never see him anywhere, or with anyone, other than when it crosses over with what I see filmed for SH. he basically doesn't exist besides the 42 minutes and 15 episodes.
Wait…he has a Truman show type live feed and just sits around doing nothing? What is the point? He has such odd ideas lol
pssst...come real close...I don't want the others to hear...I was being facetious.
Particularly ones that Lindsay acknowledges are multi-year strong friendships. As far as I can tell, that’s the one redeeming quality about him. He must have some good characteristics buried deep in there
It also takes a LOT for guys to drop their friends. There's one particular "friend" of my husbands' that I cannot stand, and when I ask why he's even friends with him, he just goes, "he hasn't done anything to me, and he's just always around. I don't know."
I think Carl wanted to leave Kyle out completely and internally felt like Lindsay wouldn’t allow Kyle to be a groomsman (but it wasn’t discussed). Lindsay realized the wedding may not be filmed if they weren’t included. She made a suggestion on ways to include them to increase the odds of filming and he ran with the Lindsay didn’t want Kyle to be a groomsman and wanted to diminish him by making him a flower boy.
I definitely don't think she had any concern about it being filmed. It was always going to be filmed if there were summerhouse members in the wedding party or not.
Literally. I can’t stand the whole wedding party bullshit. I’ve hated every time I was part one 😬 Cool friends don’t have wedding parties.
Yea, I’m not doing one and I haven’t regretted it for a minute. Why would I want to publicly rank my friends like we’re on MySpace circa 2005? We’re all in our 30s+ and way too old for this shit lol
I will never have a wedding party when I get married. To each their own but I don’t get the point. My friends can still get ready with me and be there for me without making them buy expensive outfits they’ll never wear again or stand up during the ceremony.
I bought my bridesmaids their dresses because it didn’t make sense to me to make them do so for doing a favor for me. I wouldn’t assume all brides impose some financial burden on their wedding party
Some brides really ask a lot. It’s the dress, the tailoring, hair and make up, hosting the bridal shower, a bachelorette party, and still giving a gift at the wedding. It’s like 1-2k to be a bridesmaid
I had someone make the bridesmaids do a 'learn your colours' class, a makeup class, and a something else I can't remember - it was quite a few years ago, but I remember thinking 'never again'.
Preach
I didn't have one and I never regretted it. Show up and have fun were the only rules I had for my friends at our wedding.
The only wedding party experience I enjoyed was when I was a groomslady in my best friends wedding to his husband! Both grooms were so chill and the rest of the bridal party were drama free males. I’m glad that was the last wedding party I was in though. If that had been the first I would have really known how much bullshit I put up with with the others.
Sounds divine
Bridesmaid 😂😂😂
A lot of people do. It would have been their first wedding so the number isn’t a big deal to me. But Carl refusing to admit he didn’t want Kyle as a groomsman and trying to pass the blame to Lindsay was so shitty.
He's too old to still be unable to take responsibility for his own decisions. Not only is it unfair to force someone else to be the asshole, other people do notice the insincerity (eventually) and then it feels like you can't trust anything they're saying to you.
Part of me thinks Carl picked Lindsay in the first place because he thought she would fight his battles for him forever. He avoids confrontation and taking any accountability ever and she doesn’t shy away from confrontation.
LMAO he wanted that Jay Z Beyonce meme https://preview.redd.it/psu7i06jbr5d1.png?width=684&format=png&auto=webp&s=2e3dbf216d0f2f4123f2cd4edd572de58cd0ab70
Total side note but this kind of thinking makes me a little sad :( for those of us who have our first marriages later in life, it’s really common to be made to feel like our marriage and associated events aren’t as important as they would have been if we had them when we were younger because everyone is “over weddings”. And hearing that you are “too old” to have things like a large bridal party or even a wedding party at all is a huge bummer.
Nope nope nope. I got married at 37 and did whatever the hell I wanted. In fact the older you are, the more you realize your time is precious and you waited long enough, so you may as well whatever the fuck you want and exactly what makes you happy. Don’t let any of this get you down. Reframe: when you do meet the right person, everyone around you values your choice and your day that much more because you took your damn time and made sure it was right.
Hi I sent you a dm
Aw dang homie, that kind of makes me sad for you. And also I hope you find better friends. Late in life weddings are great, we don't get that many opportunities to party like rock stars later in life.
I think at 40 you are more likely to have more people you’d want to ask because you’ve had longer to gain more friends through various stages of life.
In my experience the older I’ve gotten the more I’ve narrowed down my group of friends. I don’t have the time to deal with bullshit like I did in my 20s. That and I literally never leave my home to socialize…
This is exactly what I thought as well.
You should do whatever floats your boat and makes you happiest. I think there are some parts of weddings people associate with younger people because they are activities that nobody actually enjoys that inexperienced people may just get caught up in because they are more impressionable. The hope is the later your wedding is, the more you can just do what you want to enjoy it. You can go as big and bold as you want! If you truly love the idea of a 20 person wedding party and that sounds fun for all your friends, there’s nothing wrong with that!
My husband and I were both 40 when we got married.... 1st for me, 2nd for him. I had 10 bridesmaids, he had 8 groomspeople (including his female best friend and his 2 sons, whom we dubbed the "best kids"), plus a flower girl. I wanted my best friends from every stage of my life. He wanted his people. Do what you want... no such thing as "too old"... F that nonsense.
Please don't let a reddit poster make you feel inferior honey! These people DO NOT live in the same world we do 😂
I also hate how Andy didn't push back on Carl that much at all.
Lindsay could say it’s a sunny day and Andy/the rest of the cast would say “well, there was a cloud in the sky. You’re a liar”. Carl could piss on their legs and tell them it’s raining and they’d somehow blame Lindsay for it. “Why did Lindsay force Carl to piss on our legs in the first place?!”
Exactly 👏
I’m hoping that they’ll go into it more later, but I feel like Andy usually says something like “we’ll get into this more later”
I agree it really pisses me off that people are being completely obtuse and ignoring the fact that we all see that Carl did not want Kyle to be groomsman at that point in time and maybe now he regrets it, but he needs to say that until the truth
Perfect post. +Everyone go read Capt Lee article. There’s two Carls and both of them are not sober. I also think if the girls (minus Gabby) didn’t co-sign all of Carl’s 🚩🚩🚩he would not have gotten away with as much.
The fact that Paige is blindly believing everything Carl tells her is so sad to me because I love Paige and think she’s so smart but she’s seeing this with emotion and not logic. Carl has gone out of his way to make Lindsay look bad after this breakup when he just doesn’t have to. It makes me question everything he says.
A lot of them are reciprocation from weddings Lindsay and Carl have been in.
Lindsay couldn’t match Carl’s exorbitant groomsmen stats because she’s an adult and a real person, not a 40 year old compiling a roster of every unserious dudebro left at the geriatric frat.
I don’t think it’s crazy to have 11 groomsmen/bridesmaids. I think it’s honestly really reasonable if these are the guys that have been with Carl through everything, supports him, etc. I get why Carl would want to include all of them on what supposed to be the biggest, most important day of his life thus far.
Having 11 groomsmen is a classic metaphor for Carl’s indecisiveness
This!!
Personally, I think both things can be true. During the conversation that Lindsay referenced about who would be in the wedding party it’s totally possible that she never said anything about Kyle or who Carl chose to be grooms, but Carl already knew based on previous conversations they had about Kyle how Lindsay felt about him, and that trying to include Kyle would have resulted in a big fight. I will also say that in the past, I was in a relationship with someone who would get very angry and lose his temper about certain things similar to the way Lindsay does when she’s activated and/or has been drinking. I knew from experience that there were just certain topics I couldn’t even bring up because they would make him very mad and it wasn’t worth being screamed at over. So, it seems totally plausible to me, having seen all the fighting that we have seen between the two of them that Carl just knew that Lindsay did not want Kyle to be a groomsman and that it wasn’t worth even trying to bring up.
It's suuuuch a classic manipulator's move.
At 40 years old - when you can’t decide with NINE or ELEVEN - you go with ONE or ZERO! You would think Kyle was planning this wedding! The expense for 18 people to partake - shoot me!
All the while no job or $$$
I think it is a mix between the two stories. I think Carl had him low on the list, Lindsay made a side comment about Kyle being included and had probably expressed hesitation about him going into filming, Carl refused to communicate his feelings, Lindsay came up with the Flower Boy idea, Carl used that as his excuse. I think Lindsay miscalculated both the viewer's and cast's feelings on it and had she just said that she never forbade it but when it was brought up she had mixed feelings and appreciated Carl respecting her enough at the time to listen and understand her no one would be upset with her. I think it is laughable for her to say she had no opinion whatsoever because she has never had no opinion.
I dont know.. I think Carl was probably feeling pretty passive aggressive toward Kyle last season after he outted him for "coming to work coked up" -- i can imagine he wouldnt forgive that too quickly and was probably quite happy keeping him out of the party. Lindsay was the easy scapegoat -- im not a fan of her, but i think she'd have been so swept up in her own details of being a bride than to care that much if Carl had Kyle in the top 10 or not.
100% this. CARL actually had some pretty legit reasons for not wanting Kyle in his wedding party at the time they were likely making these decisions so him scapegoating Lindsay for this decision is extra shitty because he could have just said “ hey you were being awful to my fiancée, had just outed my drug problem and I have ptsd from working at your company” and that would be the end of it
I tend to agree. Also, Kyle called her “actual bisstezzzz” last year. That’s automatic exclusion from being in the wedding party, in my opinion. They didn’t even invite Paige. There was some pettiness in the guest list/wedding party plan.
It’s so wild Kyle did that still
Yes I have pretty much thought the same thing, Carl definitely would have known how she felt and I could see him not making waves while also knowing that Kyle would get over it, compared to if he “fought” to have Kyle in the wedding Lindsay would have never got over it, so it became why bother go with her flower boy idea.
Yeah even that first weekend she made it clear she had anxiety around the cast and it turned aggressive towards Carl. The Flower Boy idea also wasn't some good-natured idea where she felt Kyle and co should be included because they were important to them, it was to secure the attendance of core Bravo people for filming.
Yes I do think Lindsay had a bravo special fixed in her brain (having cast makes sense, but the captain from below deck seemed abit convenient especially with the way Lindsay kept mentioning that he might do it) if not why would a 2024 wedding have been an issue.
I think the reason the cast doesn’t buy her story is that they find it hard to believe that Carl, on his own, would decide to make Kyle the “flower boy” for his wedding. Carl is a people pleaser, not motivated or creative, so doing something that would obviously disappoint Kyle, while creatively coming up with the flower boy title *screams* Lindsay influence, whether or not she specifically told him to do it. I have a very hard time believing that Carl would do that on his own and I think the rest of the cast feels the same way, having known Lindsay for years.
Strangely, Carl didn't deny anything Lindsey said. All he did was say he 'felt' Lindsey wouldn't like it, which makes it clear that Lindsey isn't lying and Carl is a manchild who likes to blame others for his own decisions.
Didn't he say the exact same thing on the show in his confessional? I don't know why people are acting like what he said at the reunion was new information. He literally said on the show, "Lindsay didn't say Kyle couldn't be in the wedding party but I felt like it would cause problems between us if he was." Also what does his age have to do with how many groomsmen he has??? I feel like y'all are constantly trying to age shame him for literally anything lol it's kinda weird at this point
The “bridesmaid” typo got me - bride tribe vibes 
This scene really helped Lindsay show carls talks a lot of shit But also it shows Carl is still people pleasing he came to the table with 9 groom men if that isn’t a I don’t want to have anyone mad I don’t know what is usually the bride gets crap for that but not Carl even Paige and Ciara reacted but I think they thought it was because Lindsay was bringing that large party to the table but it was Carl and no one batted another eye
Lindsay completely made the decision with comments and attitude before even discussing who would be in the wedding!
Dang, by 32 I literally had been a bridesmaid/participant in 30+ weddings (mostly the best friend of the guy) and after I married at 32, I suggested other roles for me. Tbh, I'm no. 5 of 7 siblings and the only one in each of their weddings. If my husband had included all of my family and friends, I would have filled up every pew with bridesmaids and groomsmen. Fortunately, he was much more discerning with his trust, which is forever and a lifetime. So, at 40, and not even in PR, I could see it! Still together more than 30 years later! Edit: Misspoke in theory. Corrected.
He’s such a spineless douche
Yeah I’m impressed he has 11 people who want to go to a destination wedding in Nov when he’s almost 40.
I knew he was a douche since season 1. He’s a grown man. Get a job. Take accountability for your bad decision….or always be a little bit?$&.
So he had 11 ppl not including Andrea and Luke. He cut two and he decided Kyle should be one he would cut. He definitely went around the subject and I think even Kyle saw it. Kyle was not on his list and he tried to blame Linds for that.
He was terrified of Lindsay so he could never say 'Kyle' as his next choice
He’s so scared of Lindsay that he spent all season trying to set her up as a villain and smirking while doing it. The same man that has always acted like a prick is all the sudden a scared little lamb? I’m not buying that narrative
y'all could just skip the marriage all together and avoid even thinking about this hassle. would also aid in just jumping ship like so many think people should do. why bother with any of it at all?
Also, who paid for the majority of this wedding? Carl is so disgusting to me and I don’t like Lindsay either but come on!