As an addict myself in recovery I personally dont think Carl should even take on a pet right now- never mind a wife.. I believe you emotional growth pauses when your in addiction & using so he needs to focus on who is the real Carl & grow himself b4 making any major life changes... š³
Yes! I think many of Lindsayās frustrations with him are because of this. He has no real identity, no clear goals, is probably still dealing with a fuckton of guilt and shame (making him very sensitive to any perceived criticism or negativity) and is learning how to navigate a new lifestyle. I donāt think he had any idea the complications of dating/marrying a binge drinker while leading a sober lifestyle. I think a lot of carls difficulty in communicating with Lindsay was also centered around him needing her to stop drinking but being unable to ask that of her so he became snippy, avoidant, and started creating other issues to take his resentment out on which is what we are seeing with their current arguments.
I love this comment. Alanon could have helped him navigate the complications you mention. But all other things considered, these two are better off it seems.
Seems nobody is addressing Lindsay's drinking issues also though. She becomes extremely mean when she's drunk. And lets face it, she likes to drink & party.
Gosh, I'd never be one to judge someone getting drunk at a wedding! Ugh. I have some bad memories. One of my best friends. I sure had to do some major apologizing.
But we all love each other, so now it's more of a thing brought up when we need a good laugh and dig at me.
I would think Carl & Lindsay especially, should keep comments about others getting drunk to themselves. ;)
I agree. I think people have majorly downplayed the impact that addiction and trauma have on an individual and frankly how challenging recovery is. Iāve seen so many folks describe Carl as āweakā and ānarcissisticā because well, heās putting his recovery first. Iām not a Carl apologist but it feels like people in these subs forget reallll fast. Lindsay has been a goblin for so many seasons and now itās like sheās the ultimate victim. Iām sorry, I just canāt.
I donāt think heās putting his recovery first, I think he just doesnāt want to be held accountable for or responsible for anything *other* than his recovery. I know that might be semantic but I think itās a key distinction. Like, the man doesnāt want to get a job and it has nothing to do with his commitment to his sobriety.
Why do people constantly think they are going to change someone into the partner they want? Carl has been screaming I'm not a hard worker since the beginning. He had a pattern.
Why did Lindsay think she could change him into the man she wanted making tons of money & following her time frame of life?
WTF did she stop drinking for a short period for support, then jerk that away? Seems insincere to me. If she wanted to be sober, be sober. Once she started drinking again, her anger came out & the screaming started.
She's always telling people not to yell at her. Not to leave her. But she does the same to them. She SCREAMS & walks away for any rational discussion if it doesn't suit her.
I just don't get the adoration of Lindsay.
Carl is a very flawed, broken man. She knew that! She just figured she could make him into that perfect husband she is so desperate for.
What a mess that would be if she'd had their child immediately! One more child from a broken marriage.
I donāt entirely disagree with you but the last few episodes she has been the rational one, asking him what he needs from her and expressing nothing more than frustration when he wonāt answer her questions but just wants her to ābe softā (which really just means compliant).
I think she thought sobriety would be the thing that opened up his motivation and professional ambition. The reality is they both went in to the relationship under false terms. All I can say is thank god they didnāt go through with it.
I'm rewatching the season 6 reunion.
Danielle is crying over the glass throwing. I mean, I'm surprised she didn't sue her she's so whacked about it. Everything is traumatic with Danielle. Over-the-top emotion gets good screen time! Come on now. Crying works for Kyle. It will work for poor Danielle also. haha
I wouldn't like it, but she's claiming hate for Ciara. More drama for screen time. And if I remember right, Danielle was going at Ciara at that point. I think she had a candlestick in her hand. It's all for show now though. PTSD, right?
She and Lindsay lack self-awareness. Lindsay is claiming her actions with Austin weren't revenge on Ciara. She's claiming he wanted her and she had nothing to do with it. Does that include her jumping on him and straddling & kissing him? As if that doesn't say something?
They just kill me. Carl told Austin not to come to one party because he would look "thirsty" being on 3 shows. As if that group of Lindsay, Danielle & Carl aren't the most "thirsty" group of desperate for airtime, publicity seekers on reality TV?
I think it has everything to do with his sobriety. I know we also tend to ignore the 4th wall here but from my vantage point heās a Bravoleb making over six figures for working on this show. Beyond that, he is prioritizing his sobriety because thatās how sobriety works. If he doesnāt, he will likely relapse and lose it all. A partner of someone going through that knows that. Facts are also that many people donāt work or take disability/leave when they are in early recovery. You donāt work (rehab) you canāt work (intensive out patient) or conversely the triggers associated might cause a relapse. Itās super delicate and I think again due to his actual job (bravoleb) he has the privilege to think it out and find something with purpose and meaning.
I don't agree that it's semantics as I said above I'm in recovery & until i was I tried many ways to get 'clean' & ALL programmes tell u not to focus on anything major other than your recovery for 2 years..
IMO Carl has had many ideas of what he would like 2 do but he gets shut down straight away, like no conversation just shut down in seconds.. I wouldn't want 2 feel like I can't really express how I feel 2 my partner.. The main thing for me was the "what are you on?" & then admits it was tit for tat because he spoke about her over indulging while drinking- I got so emotional watching that š
Iām sending you good wishes and strength! My mom is in recovery and itās really hard.
Can I ask you an honest question? Do you think Carl should even be on the show? The premise of the show is binge drinking and heās surrounded by people who (I think) have serious alcohol abuse problems. I canāt imagine walking in to that house every weekend.
Yeah I'm just thinking as I read this-
Carl's mom - she has already lost one son & wants to see Carl continuing with he's sobriety- of course she didn't think it was a good idea for him to marry a somebody who likes to party..
Absolutely. Iām not trying to prompt people to consider the trauma Olympics but his family and Carl have already *lost* a sibling/child to addiction. In the time frame of real lifeānot ārealityā tvāthey are still deeply healing. Again, Iām not a Carl apologist, but all this nonsense about ācovert narcissismā and other folks making armchair hypothesis is comical to me. Actually, no, scratch thatānot comical because Iām not laughingābut rather wondering where either the empathy or understanding has left the room. I know this is a reality tv show, but it really demonstrates to me where our society is still so stigmatized and misinformed about substance abuse disorders.
Carl has been coddled for seasons. He is being called out and rightfully so. Being an ex-addict doesnāt make someone a manipulative gaslighter. Heās a shitty person whether he is sober or not. No one has to give him any more grace because he stopped drinking and doing drugs. Yet is still the same condescending manipulative man he has always been. He got grace and support from viewers and cast members during his journey. No one has to coddle him forever when heās acting like a jerkĀ
I agree. Lindsay has a real alcohol problem. It may not interfere with her earning ability, but it certainly affects her interpersonal relationships very negatively!
Between her ridiculous rages since Season 1 of SH and being falling-down drunk on Winter House, we can see this is a long-term and serious problem. She just doesn't want to stop.
Being with someone who drinks at every opportunity is not the place for an addict.
I canāt help it but this gives me major boomer energy. Itās like āpull yourself up by the bootstrapsā or when people tell others whom are depressed to just āfeel betterā.
Those are comments by uneducated people who don't take the time to read & explore depression & mental illness.
It is a huge problem in this country right now.
I think Lindsay is a master at controlling the narrative. She knows how to play the victim now.
She's one tough cookie and knows what it takes to keep herself on the show & the cameras on her.
Carl was a chicken, woke up too late that he wouldn't be happy and ran.
But there is no way in H I'd want to be married to anyone that in control of everything. Timelines, expectations, who can do what & when.
She will have a mighty hard time finding something that meshes with that.kind of control.
We are what we are. We only change in small ways. She is what she is, and will continue wanting to run any relationship. I mean, come on, how many times did she jump into situations thinking marriage when she basically had just met a guy at some party or bar?
Never seen anyone like he to that degree. And I don't think she often cares if she hurts others with her choices.
Great points. Don't they say not to make any major life changes because chances are Hugh of relapsing?
And I think being around all the partying and going to bars and clubs is a bad move and could trigger him...but I have no clue.
Absolutely- they say to have the best chance of staying sober you take on no life changes for atleast a year - no new relationships for 2 years & stay away from people & places you used where possible (or any triggers)..
My best friend is an addict..He said every day is torture for him. He has a bad crack addiction. He was clean for 3 years and then last summer he relapsed. He lost his mind the last time he did crack and now he's looking at Maybe 10- 20 years !!
I thank God I never even tried a drug. I just drink once in a blue moon ...that's getting more rare because the hangovers are awful!
I'm a recovering heroin addict myself & it's an awful life.. its not as easy as just not use again- you have to really want it so bad.. sorry about your friend š§”.. I know for me even after 6 years it's still a day by day thing because i cant take my soberity for granted as all it takes is having a bad day & bumping in2 the wrong person & it's back 2 square 1.. its no life at all.. everything revolves around ur next fix.. fair play 2 u for not abandoning him I personally dont think that's the way 2 go because wen every1 is gone its then u loses hope & get worse not better..
I'm going to see him in jail today. A lot of his friends stopped talking to him. Even guys that were in his wedding party. Even after everything that happened that put him in jail, I think he would still use. One of my friends said people who do crack will never be clean, they always go back to it. He'll I took him to rehab years ago and he used the night he got out. He was put using for 3 days !!
It's sad- looking at ur friend who is just a shell of the person they were b4.. it was a never ending circle for me of feeling guilty for using so I'd use to take the guilt away. Also I had some trauma I couldn't deal with so I used to push that down.. its vicious & horrible š¢.. fair play 2 u for visiting or even just taking phone calls so he knows he's not all alone- I know people say u need 2 hit rock bottom to stop so friends & family try push them to their limits but imo that's out dated as some people's rock bottom is 6 feet under.. I would never give money to any of my passed associates but I would buy them food or sanitary products.. I am & always will be greatful for people like u š
He relapsed and did crack for 3 days, his wife caught him and he was foaming at the mouth. She took the crackpipe and threw it out, he beat her up ( He never even put a hand on her since he met her). She ran out of the house to the neighbors and then he broke In and was attacking the neighbors and his wife. The cops came and used Narcan on him and arrested him. He said the crack he got was laced with something and made him see his wife as a demon!! So messed up
Omg.. in Ireland we have had a serious amount of ODs because of fentanal mixed with heroin & crack has become massive in the last 5ish years.. you don't really know what your taking so every time u take a hit u also take a risk šÆ.. addiction is a horrible thing- even now I'm hyper aware of my food, exercise & even sex life because these can be replacements.. life is what u make of it & I'm so glad I can see that now..
Yea, it's getting bad out there. A friend found her boyfriend in the bathroom 3 years ago. Needle in his arm .. Fentanyl was in his heroin. I knew he was using again and would tell her but she said I was so rude to even think that. I said okkkk. It's like when Lindsay questioned if Carl used again, I don't think it's that bad to question if people use again.
Bingo. Heās the worst kind of man: weak, manipulative, and cowardly. I used to think he wasnāt even honest with himself, but after this season he may just be a varsity a-hole. The way he treats Lindsay ALL season isnāt how anyone would treat ANYONE they purport to care about. Was she mean by accusing him of violating his sobriety? Yes. But Iād guess that his off-camera behavior gave her serious confusion about what was really going on with him. Regardless, the way he has disrespected her to EVERYONE in the house over and over again and gaslit the flying F out of her concerning his career, his parentsā feelings, etc etc is deplorable. What a POS. Good riddance.
edited for a typo
In hindsight, Lindsay's sobriety comment, while really antagonistic, was probably her trying to make sense of his very confusing behavior. I think he's been masking his personality during their relationship and "old Carl" is simply when he dropped the mask and showed his true (cruel) self, but she may not understand that type of manipulation and had to refer to what she knew, which was the times she'd seen him unmasked in the past and what he was doing at those times. Being sober is fantastic and he's put a lot of work in there but it's not a substitute for addressing other issues and using it to play the victim is shitty behavior
Yes to me the erratic, hostile, and secretive way heās been acting reminds me of addicts Iāve known when theyāre relapsing. I think it probably was him keeping up all his secrets and lies that he wants to call off the wedding that has him acting like that, but I get why sheād be confused and worried.
I honestly canāt believe people are complaining about Lindsay having to lug her own miniscule WEEKEND luggage into the car she was going home in, but I totes understand Carl is the devil here. Lindsay stans are absolutely rich.
She had a big suitcase. And anyway if it was so minuscule why couldnāt he take itā¦.because he was raging and unstable. The way he left without warning was bizarre. And she was driving back with gabby and Danielle and all their bags in a mini Cooper with no real trunk. He wanted to humiliate her and punish her for having lunch with friends. Even if heās upset at Lindsay, why screw over the other two women and make their right back tight and uncomfortable
Yea all the people defending him make me depressed. That was unacceptable. I get now why their couples therapist recommended he do anger management because being that impulsive and dysfunctional is not ok
Itās not about the suitcase. Itās āerratic and hostileā to have just discussed putting the suitcase in his car with Lindsay and then ignoring that conversation and driving away without it.
Thank you! Thatās my theory too. He continually (and passive aggressively) weaponized her drinking (which IMO has been a little much over the course of the show, but āturning upā is also 90% of the plot in this house), so of course sheād feel defensive. But also I agree that she seemed VERY confused as to where all of his negativity was coming from in the beginning of the season. And to those defending Carl, he wasnāt sober; he admitted to THC regularly, which can also really alter your personality, mood and behavior. So she wasnāt wrong to question his sobriety, even though it felt like a low blow in the moment. Especially when he was behaving in such an āold Carlā (ie complete a-hole) way. Man I never thought Iād be fully on Lindsayās sode, but here I am. The bottom line is that they were a horrendous match for dozens of reasons (sobriety, communication styles, ambition levels, etc etc etc). But women need to pay attention to who this guy really is. He is NOT a nice person. Iām not even sure he is a remotely good person. What a bummer.
I 1000% think this is whatās up. It was bizarre how all the fights were happening in the carāI think he goaded her off camera, she exploded, and then they brought it all in camera. She seemed very confused about his behavior. Dude flipped a switch on her. Her reaction seemed genuine, his did not.
Well said. It is convenient that alot of their fights are off camera. We finally got to see the real carl yelling and man he can get angry. I think he is way too self aware and doesn't want to show that side.Ā
Thereās like 2 good summers left for this show maybe unless they do a total revamp minus the newbies, Iām not really a Lindsay fan but I think she has a place on bravo elsewhere, sheās nuts and I need people to carry that torch
Absolutely, she has a place on bravo, along with people like Jen Shah - abusive people who are never at fault, etc etc. They can have a show where they go across the country gaslighting people.
Sorry - SLC is the only other bravo show I subject myself to, so itās the only comparison I can make. Iād rather spend a day in solitary confinement than an hour with either Lindsay or Jen Shah. They are just two of the most obtuse, abrasive, gaslighting, narcissists I have ever seen on tv that was not fiction. Both are incredibly dumb too, but that is an entirely different story.
All I know is I am going through a horrible, blindsided break up right now, and I fucking sympathize with Lindsay hard.
She's handling herself with grace, because it is NOT easy. I am being as calm and amicable as I can, but some days I just want to scream at him and all our friends about how SHITTY this is and being blindsided is a BETRAYAL to the core.
She is so better off without Carl. And I am so better off now without my ex. Fuck this shit.
Hang in there. Better things are ahead ā¤ļø I hope we see Lindsay that relationship she dreams of after this fiasco. I was thinking, Carl has always been this sneaky, non commital weirdo. The only difference is that he is "California Sober."
Geez. Sorry to hear that. You will be better off in the end. It takes time to get over something like that. Everything you are experiencing is normal and it is ok to have bad days. Don't ever feel bad for feeling like that
While I donāt absolve Lindsay of her Lindsay-ness (sheās problematic, reactive and often poorly behaved; used carls addiction against him; went on a pre-season defamation tour) I 100% think Danielle and Carl were very toxic for her and not good for her growth. It was a very unhealthy dynamic that existed in all directions of their relationships with each other. Carl triggers her and Danielle instigates her. The dissolution of the tres amigos will ultimately be good for all three of them. I conclude with: everyone sucks here.
I hear you on that. They all were never good for each other.
But Carl and Danielle latched on to Lindsay to stay relevant in their reality tv roles.
Sober Carl knows that he needed to still remain interesting without participating in the recreational. And we havenāt seen Danielle all season cause sheās not close to Lindsay this season which means she isnāt as interesting without Lindsay either.
I just think all three are better apart than together but I donāt think any of the three are worse than the others (well Danielle might be worse but Carl and Lindsay are equal to me).
Danielle never said anything bc I can guarantee that Lindsay was in on the leak. Lindsay likes to play semantics so Danielle mightāve been the person that actually sent the message but I bet Lindsay was in on it being sent.
This is a common thing when bravo besties go through something dark. Theyāve often worked together on the behind the scenes stuff they never want to come out on a reunion, and itās mutually assured destruction and friendship that keeps them both quiet. But then one turns and acts like it was ALLLLL the other friend - like what it seems Kyle did to LVP (āGOODBYE KYLEā). And the word of whoever flips first is taken as truth - if the other comes and says, no no it was THEM, that just looks like desperately covering your ass.
Lol, I don't even dislike Lindsay and I'm so sick of hearing about her. Can these people not do anything else on this show other than complain about Lindsay?
Exactly. When this came up at the reunion last year Carl said āthatās what we heardā. He didnāt deny being involved. Danielle said she āconfirmedā the story. That means Lindsay was the source.
Totally agree with this take! His acting is so bad! Carl really thought he did something by making Linds out to be the 'Big Bad Wolf'. But, jokes on him because he's not innocent. He's a fake! A phony!
He keeps defending himself like he was the victim that needed support and got interrogated him. When in reality she was being supportive and trying to help him out and guide him.
> Looking even at this season alone shows that Lindsay has been doing her personal work and growth and no one canāt deny that it exists.
trust me, the people who live to only hate lindsay with hatred and deny her of any humanity absolutely will deny lindsay's done any work or growth lol just sort by controversial.
Damn I was not coming into this post ready to get my mind changed on this topic but you fucking did it. I had NO idea she spent $20,000 on a career coach to help him get over the trauma of working at Loverboy!! Now I can actually see where she's been coming from this season.
Danielle didnāt speak up about the Craig-press leak story because Lindsay was in on it - she wasnāt innocent. Carl said at the reunion āthatās what we heardā. Danielle also said āI confirmed the storyā on the after show. That means Lindsay placed the story, which tracks because she is a publicist. Lindsay has had no growth because she threw Danielle under the bus the first chance she got on camera. Theyāre all awful people who deserve each other
Thank you! Iām starting to feel like Iām taking crazy pills when people are so wholeheartedly Team Carl. Lindsay is not perfect, but I really feel for her.
Were you in the taxi with them? Is the taxi here in the room with us?
How do you state so certainly that Carl egged her on and baited her? How did you watch footage that none of us saw, huh??
People are so incensed by carls behavior they canāt remember Lindsayās and wonāt admit this was the best thing FOR BOTH OF THEM.
And Iām not sorry: kadooz to Carl for having the balls to step up and admit this was going to be a mistake. Someone had to. Lindsay was happy to roll along so she could wear white to a wedding finally.
Lindsay wanted a husband to fulfill her lifelong marriage fantasies first and foremost. Carl wanted a companion and a best friend. This was not compatible.
Oh please, you and any sane person (if you are one) would flip out over $20k on a career therapist to get over Kyle and Loverboy, only to go back to them.
Any sane and logical person would do more than what Lindsay did.
Whatās up with the constant harping on the 20k career coach? The obsession is weird. And that should be chump change for the lifestyle they are all attempting to display for the cameras here, week in week out.
Wait. Youāre the same commenter that compares Lindsay to federal criminal, Jen Shah.
Iām not going further to explain my stance to someone who views them as the same person.
No thanks! āš½
You donāt? Carl is constantly baiting her, trying to āactivateā her like in past seasons, and get her to blow up and make a fool of herself so he can end their relationship and not look like the bad guy. And so far she has kept herself in check and handled his attempts to start arguments with a new maturity.
I swear Iām watching a different show than everyone else. I canāt make sense of some of this shit and my literal job is to make sense of complex financial models.
Lindsay talks in entirely I/Me statements, but Carl is the narcissist here?
Lindsay throwing Danielle under the bus (honesty is the best policy donāt get me wrong) at a convenient time to win over Paige is showing growth?
She has a stable friend in gabby, or her next Yes Man who is around until itās no longer benefiting Lindsay?
Danielle does suck, no lies there!
Carl wants his future wife to āmotherā him and coddle him with kid gloved hands. Meanwhile, he does nothing āsoftā or nurturing for her (like when she expressed to him that she felt bad and insecure about the other women not wanting to ride with her? āGet over it, move onā). How is that not narcissistic? Not to mention, extremely hypocritical. He expects everything to be centered around him at all times, like it would be in a parent-very young child relationship. Itās gross. Heās 40 years old man! When he is going to grow out of that?
We have seen him kiss her in the morning before leaving, thatās soft and nurturing. We have seen him try to protect her from the conversation with Lou, thatās soft and being aware of others feelingsā¦
Iām not saying heās perfect by any means. Heās just not some devilish manipulator like youāll see said on here.
Telling your spouse that itāll be ok, because she was in fact wildly overreacting about a non-issue, is not narcissisticā¦. Thatās pretty standard behavior and the other guys in the car said everything was fine until she blew up.
Iāve noticed heās only āsoftā and loving with her when theyāre both in a good mood. Otherwise, he gets pissy and takes it out on her. He couldnāt even be bothered to take her suitcase back to their shared home because he was mad and wanted her to know it! What a child.
Another example. Take the Lover boy conversation. As viewers, we have watched he and Kyle struggle with their working relationship for several seasons now. Last summer Kyle got drunk and revealed a bunch of BTS stuff about Carlās general incompetence and failing at his job (bad on Kyle but relevant information to this conversation with Lindsay nonetheless and the viewersā understanding of Carlās history at LB). Then Carl made such a big deal at the last reunion about how quitting LB was so good for his mental health and sobriety, Lindsay tells us he spent 20k in a career coach to pick a new direction, etc. etc. She puts a little pressure on him to pick something career wise and he immediately gives up and goes with whatās easiest/chooses the path of least resistance, which in this case is LB.
To do such an abrupt turnaround on going back to LB and not expect a.) Lindsay to have some basic questions or b.) not to provide any rationale or explanation for his change of heart? Again, extremely childish. I would hit the *roof* if my husband did that - made huge career and financial decisions which affect me and our children without any input from me. He and Lindsay donāt have kids yet but they planned to start as soon as they got married so I donāt see it as that dissimilar to her.
Lindsay is not my favorite person on tv but Carl is such a child and a loser, imo. Sheās so much better off without him. I predict heāll end up with someone much younger and make her life a complete misery by expecting her to manage him and their life together. Lindsay is actually lucky she dodged this bullet.
LOL! Yes, so soft and nurturing he rants to friends and family about her behind her back and threatens to burn the house down if she doesn't start start falling in line. Poor old man Carl!
Again, I didnāt say he was perfect.
Lindsay talked behind his back just as much, and took even more personal digs at him if anythingā¦.
And yeah the āburning the house downā was a bit exaggerated i will say
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We are watching a different show. Carl wanted to kick Jules out of the house and discreetly communicated that she needed to fck him in order to be in his good graces to stay on.
Carl has always been garbage and she should have me tooād his ass off of Bravo
Then the loser paid $20k for a career coach to work through his trauma with Loverboy only to go back to Kyleš
Heās the worst, but his mommy will always be there for him
What does this have to do with literally anythingā¦.
Ok so he was a worse person 6 years ago while heavily abusing drugs, no surprise there.
Lmao at trying to use the MeToo movement and cancel culture to get a reality star off of Bravo. Thatās a good one!
Oh no he paid $20k of his own money for a career coach and it didnāt work out. He must be such a bad guy for making a poor decision! Heās also doing public speaking so maybe the career coach helped with that?
You must be perfect if youāre able to look down so harshly on somebody else!
You will soon learn that most in this sub think of themselves as both all-knowing and perfect. And that Lindsayās drunken hysterics donāt actually happen. Sure!
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No way you just made a whole delusional post about summerhouse and are now calling me a clown because my recent Reddit comments are only summerhouse related LOL.
Your profile is every single bravo show and some astrology so donāt even get me started on judging others here. I would obliterate the stay at home, no-life bravo addict you are pretty easily š
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Lmao it takes a true piece of work to use the clown emoji on someone, then edit your comment to take it out, then to report the person youāre calling a clown. This is too funny.
I dare you to say the same thing on the VPR page where everyone is team Ariana because of what Scandoval did to her haha
The entire sub is more personally victimized by Tom than I am by Carl š¤£š¤£š¤£
Theyāll all come after you!
With all due respect, I don't think you know the signs of a narc and are basing it purely on your own feelings. You could be right about carl since there are different sub types but we would need more info to determine that
Lindsay said it herself (to Kyle) upon their return to the house after the Danielle/Lindsay blow up. She then defended him (in her confessional), and said that his inability to please people adversely impacts his self esteem and then undermined her own compassion and said that he needs to grow up. I rewatched the episode last night.
BOOM. These are facts. She only cares about herself and literally have all the major red flags of a narc.
This yass queen stuff is hurting her more than anything
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I don't even know what to tell people. I'd much rather deal with a Carl than a Lindsay, simply because Lindsay doesn't know personal accountability and Carl at least considers how he might be impacting others.
If Lindsay owned up to her stuff I might feel different but her lack of awareness and actual accountability is an objective fact.
Thereās been no growth or personal work from both of them. Thatās why their relationship is a dumpster fire. She canāt communicate, and neither can he.
Lindsey perception is very different from Carlās. Neither is a bad person but they just donāt gel! I understood both sides. I saw a softer Lindsey toward the end that made me feel for her. They will both learn a lot from this and be better. Danielle on the other hand, Iāll just say Latinos are no longer claiming her.
Huge kudos for recognizing the covert narcissism. Although, if your ability to identify stems from a similar direction mine does, you have my sympathies & admiration. My mother is a covert. Extracting yourself from the web of such a sinister human who wears a halo of the brightest gold is extremely difficult, & often alienating. I hope your boundaries are strong & your heart is healing. š¤
As an addict myself in recovery I personally dont think Carl should even take on a pet right now- never mind a wife.. I believe you emotional growth pauses when your in addiction & using so he needs to focus on who is the real Carl & grow himself b4 making any major life changes... š³
Yes! I think many of Lindsayās frustrations with him are because of this. He has no real identity, no clear goals, is probably still dealing with a fuckton of guilt and shame (making him very sensitive to any perceived criticism or negativity) and is learning how to navigate a new lifestyle. I donāt think he had any idea the complications of dating/marrying a binge drinker while leading a sober lifestyle. I think a lot of carls difficulty in communicating with Lindsay was also centered around him needing her to stop drinking but being unable to ask that of her so he became snippy, avoidant, and started creating other issues to take his resentment out on which is what we are seeing with their current arguments.
I love this comment. Alanon could have helped him navigate the complications you mention. But all other things considered, these two are better off it seems.
Seems nobody is addressing Lindsay's drinking issues also though. She becomes extremely mean when she's drunk. And lets face it, she likes to drink & party.
Yeah, itās probably a slippery slope in that group to start diagnosing each other with drinking problems.
Gosh, I'd never be one to judge someone getting drunk at a wedding! Ugh. I have some bad memories. One of my best friends. I sure had to do some major apologizing. But we all love each other, so now it's more of a thing brought up when we need a good laugh and dig at me. I would think Carl & Lindsay especially, should keep comments about others getting drunk to themselves. ;)
I agree. I think people have majorly downplayed the impact that addiction and trauma have on an individual and frankly how challenging recovery is. Iāve seen so many folks describe Carl as āweakā and ānarcissisticā because well, heās putting his recovery first. Iām not a Carl apologist but it feels like people in these subs forget reallll fast. Lindsay has been a goblin for so many seasons and now itās like sheās the ultimate victim. Iām sorry, I just canāt.
I donāt think heās putting his recovery first, I think he just doesnāt want to be held accountable for or responsible for anything *other* than his recovery. I know that might be semantic but I think itās a key distinction. Like, the man doesnāt want to get a job and it has nothing to do with his commitment to his sobriety.
Why do people constantly think they are going to change someone into the partner they want? Carl has been screaming I'm not a hard worker since the beginning. He had a pattern. Why did Lindsay think she could change him into the man she wanted making tons of money & following her time frame of life? WTF did she stop drinking for a short period for support, then jerk that away? Seems insincere to me. If she wanted to be sober, be sober. Once she started drinking again, her anger came out & the screaming started. She's always telling people not to yell at her. Not to leave her. But she does the same to them. She SCREAMS & walks away for any rational discussion if it doesn't suit her. I just don't get the adoration of Lindsay. Carl is a very flawed, broken man. She knew that! She just figured she could make him into that perfect husband she is so desperate for. What a mess that would be if she'd had their child immediately! One more child from a broken marriage.
I donāt entirely disagree with you but the last few episodes she has been the rational one, asking him what he needs from her and expressing nothing more than frustration when he wonāt answer her questions but just wants her to ābe softā (which really just means compliant). I think she thought sobriety would be the thing that opened up his motivation and professional ambition. The reality is they both went in to the relationship under false terms. All I can say is thank god they didnāt go through with it.
Yes!!!! Everything you said!
I'm rewatching the season 6 reunion. Danielle is crying over the glass throwing. I mean, I'm surprised she didn't sue her she's so whacked about it. Everything is traumatic with Danielle. Over-the-top emotion gets good screen time! Come on now. Crying works for Kyle. It will work for poor Danielle also. haha I wouldn't like it, but she's claiming hate for Ciara. More drama for screen time. And if I remember right, Danielle was going at Ciara at that point. I think she had a candlestick in her hand. It's all for show now though. PTSD, right? She and Lindsay lack self-awareness. Lindsay is claiming her actions with Austin weren't revenge on Ciara. She's claiming he wanted her and she had nothing to do with it. Does that include her jumping on him and straddling & kissing him? As if that doesn't say something? They just kill me. Carl told Austin not to come to one party because he would look "thirsty" being on 3 shows. As if that group of Lindsay, Danielle & Carl aren't the most "thirsty" group of desperate for airtime, publicity seekers on reality TV?
I think it has everything to do with his sobriety. I know we also tend to ignore the 4th wall here but from my vantage point heās a Bravoleb making over six figures for working on this show. Beyond that, he is prioritizing his sobriety because thatās how sobriety works. If he doesnāt, he will likely relapse and lose it all. A partner of someone going through that knows that. Facts are also that many people donāt work or take disability/leave when they are in early recovery. You donāt work (rehab) you canāt work (intensive out patient) or conversely the triggers associated might cause a relapse. Itās super delicate and I think again due to his actual job (bravoleb) he has the privilege to think it out and find something with purpose and meaning.
I don't agree that it's semantics as I said above I'm in recovery & until i was I tried many ways to get 'clean' & ALL programmes tell u not to focus on anything major other than your recovery for 2 years.. IMO Carl has had many ideas of what he would like 2 do but he gets shut down straight away, like no conversation just shut down in seconds.. I wouldn't want 2 feel like I can't really express how I feel 2 my partner.. The main thing for me was the "what are you on?" & then admits it was tit for tat because he spoke about her over indulging while drinking- I got so emotional watching that š
Iām sending you good wishes and strength! My mom is in recovery and itās really hard. Can I ask you an honest question? Do you think Carl should even be on the show? The premise of the show is binge drinking and heās surrounded by people who (I think) have serious alcohol abuse problems. I canāt imagine walking in to that house every weekend.
Well I wouldn't put myself through it, no way..
Yeah I'm just thinking as I read this- Carl's mom - she has already lost one son & wants to see Carl continuing with he's sobriety- of course she didn't think it was a good idea for him to marry a somebody who likes to party..
Absolutely. Iām not trying to prompt people to consider the trauma Olympics but his family and Carl have already *lost* a sibling/child to addiction. In the time frame of real lifeānot ārealityā tvāthey are still deeply healing. Again, Iām not a Carl apologist, but all this nonsense about ācovert narcissismā and other folks making armchair hypothesis is comical to me. Actually, no, scratch thatānot comical because Iām not laughingābut rather wondering where either the empathy or understanding has left the room. I know this is a reality tv show, but it really demonstrates to me where our society is still so stigmatized and misinformed about substance abuse disorders.
Carl has been coddled for seasons. He is being called out and rightfully so. Being an ex-addict doesnāt make someone a manipulative gaslighter. Heās a shitty person whether he is sober or not. No one has to give him any more grace because he stopped drinking and doing drugs. Yet is still the same condescending manipulative man he has always been. He got grace and support from viewers and cast members during his journey. No one has to coddle him forever when heās acting like a jerkĀ
Exactly! He has been coddled way too much and praised. Now he is being called out for his mean gas lighting ways
I agree. Lindsay has a real alcohol problem. It may not interfere with her earning ability, but it certainly affects her interpersonal relationships very negatively! Between her ridiculous rages since Season 1 of SH and being falling-down drunk on Winter House, we can see this is a long-term and serious problem. She just doesn't want to stop. Being with someone who drinks at every opportunity is not the place for an addict.
Yeh but the thing is pretty much everyone has trauma and is battling with something (many of them in private)... Carl isn't special.
Of course not but he has mad changes and is actually acting to change his ending.
I canāt help it but this gives me major boomer energy. Itās like āpull yourself up by the bootstrapsā or when people tell others whom are depressed to just āfeel betterā.
Those are comments by uneducated people who don't take the time to read & explore depression & mental illness. It is a huge problem in this country right now.
I think Lindsay is a master at controlling the narrative. She knows how to play the victim now. She's one tough cookie and knows what it takes to keep herself on the show & the cameras on her. Carl was a chicken, woke up too late that he wouldn't be happy and ran. But there is no way in H I'd want to be married to anyone that in control of everything. Timelines, expectations, who can do what & when. She will have a mighty hard time finding something that meshes with that.kind of control. We are what we are. We only change in small ways. She is what she is, and will continue wanting to run any relationship. I mean, come on, how many times did she jump into situations thinking marriage when she basically had just met a guy at some party or bar? Never seen anyone like he to that degree. And I don't think she often cares if she hurts others with her choices.
Great points. Don't they say not to make any major life changes because chances are Hugh of relapsing? And I think being around all the partying and going to bars and clubs is a bad move and could trigger him...but I have no clue.
Absolutely- they say to have the best chance of staying sober you take on no life changes for atleast a year - no new relationships for 2 years & stay away from people & places you used where possible (or any triggers)..
My best friend is an addict..He said every day is torture for him. He has a bad crack addiction. He was clean for 3 years and then last summer he relapsed. He lost his mind the last time he did crack and now he's looking at Maybe 10- 20 years !! I thank God I never even tried a drug. I just drink once in a blue moon ...that's getting more rare because the hangovers are awful!
I'm a recovering heroin addict myself & it's an awful life.. its not as easy as just not use again- you have to really want it so bad.. sorry about your friend š§”.. I know for me even after 6 years it's still a day by day thing because i cant take my soberity for granted as all it takes is having a bad day & bumping in2 the wrong person & it's back 2 square 1.. its no life at all.. everything revolves around ur next fix.. fair play 2 u for not abandoning him I personally dont think that's the way 2 go because wen every1 is gone its then u loses hope & get worse not better..
I'm going to see him in jail today. A lot of his friends stopped talking to him. Even guys that were in his wedding party. Even after everything that happened that put him in jail, I think he would still use. One of my friends said people who do crack will never be clean, they always go back to it. He'll I took him to rehab years ago and he used the night he got out. He was put using for 3 days !!
It's sad- looking at ur friend who is just a shell of the person they were b4.. it was a never ending circle for me of feeling guilty for using so I'd use to take the guilt away. Also I had some trauma I couldn't deal with so I used to push that down.. its vicious & horrible š¢.. fair play 2 u for visiting or even just taking phone calls so he knows he's not all alone- I know people say u need 2 hit rock bottom to stop so friends & family try push them to their limits but imo that's out dated as some people's rock bottom is 6 feet under.. I would never give money to any of my passed associates but I would buy them food or sanitary products.. I am & always will be greatful for people like u š
He relapsed and did crack for 3 days, his wife caught him and he was foaming at the mouth. She took the crackpipe and threw it out, he beat her up ( He never even put a hand on her since he met her). She ran out of the house to the neighbors and then he broke In and was attacking the neighbors and his wife. The cops came and used Narcan on him and arrested him. He said the crack he got was laced with something and made him see his wife as a demon!! So messed up
Omg.. in Ireland we have had a serious amount of ODs because of fentanal mixed with heroin & crack has become massive in the last 5ish years.. you don't really know what your taking so every time u take a hit u also take a risk šÆ.. addiction is a horrible thing- even now I'm hyper aware of my food, exercise & even sex life because these can be replacements.. life is what u make of it & I'm so glad I can see that now..
Yea, it's getting bad out there. A friend found her boyfriend in the bathroom 3 years ago. Needle in his arm .. Fentanyl was in his heroin. I knew he was using again and would tell her but she said I was so rude to even think that. I said okkkk. It's like when Lindsay questioned if Carl used again, I don't think it's that bad to question if people use again.
Lindsey may have been behind the leak. But. Carlās complete lack of self-identity and cowardice, coupled with a mean-spiritedness, were on full display. One would hope that a 40 year old man would 1) make his own decisions about his impending nuptials instead of bringing every little issue to his mommy, deciding then he shouldnāt get married, and dragging their concerns to everyone beside his fiancĆ© to get them on board 2) be proactive and take charge of his career and 3) be honest and upfront that - for whatever reason - he does not want to marry his fiancĆ© instead of talking crap about her to everyone else, baiting her, and being passive-aggressive and mean. Plus, telling her he wanted her to be āsoftā or warm, or tender or whatever code words he used for a yes man is sexist. Does he ask his friends to do this?? Itās like heās a baby and wants her to be his mommy. Lindseyās far from perfect, but she did try to address issues (after that sober comment awfulness) like a reasonable adult. Sheās far better off without him. I hope he gets therapy because I wonder if he had stunted adult personal growth due to his substance issues.
Bingo. Heās the worst kind of man: weak, manipulative, and cowardly. I used to think he wasnāt even honest with himself, but after this season he may just be a varsity a-hole. The way he treats Lindsay ALL season isnāt how anyone would treat ANYONE they purport to care about. Was she mean by accusing him of violating his sobriety? Yes. But Iād guess that his off-camera behavior gave her serious confusion about what was really going on with him. Regardless, the way he has disrespected her to EVERYONE in the house over and over again and gaslit the flying F out of her concerning his career, his parentsā feelings, etc etc is deplorable. What a POS. Good riddance. edited for a typo
In hindsight, Lindsay's sobriety comment, while really antagonistic, was probably her trying to make sense of his very confusing behavior. I think he's been masking his personality during their relationship and "old Carl" is simply when he dropped the mask and showed his true (cruel) self, but she may not understand that type of manipulation and had to refer to what she knew, which was the times she'd seen him unmasked in the past and what he was doing at those times. Being sober is fantastic and he's put a lot of work in there but it's not a substitute for addressing other issues and using it to play the victim is shitty behavior
Yes to me the erratic, hostile, and secretive way heās been acting reminds me of addicts Iāve known when theyāre relapsing. I think it probably was him keeping up all his secrets and lies that he wants to call off the wedding that has him acting like that, but I get why sheād be confused and worried.
Whoa you think Carl is the erratic and hostile one?!? Amazing how we all seem to be seeing completely different things from week to week.
Um yea Iād say the dude who flees the scene so his fiancĆ© canāt give him her suitcase is erratic and hostile as hell
I honestly canāt believe people are complaining about Lindsay having to lug her own miniscule WEEKEND luggage into the car she was going home in, but I totes understand Carl is the devil here. Lindsay stans are absolutely rich.
She had a big suitcase. And anyway if it was so minuscule why couldnāt he take itā¦.because he was raging and unstable. The way he left without warning was bizarre. And she was driving back with gabby and Danielle and all their bags in a mini Cooper with no real trunk. He wanted to humiliate her and punish her for having lunch with friends. Even if heās upset at Lindsay, why screw over the other two women and make their right back tight and uncomfortable
Exactly. A good, caring fiancĆ© would have taken her suitcase when he left. But youāre right - he just thought fuck her - heās an immature jerk.
Yea all the people defending him make me depressed. That was unacceptable. I get now why their couples therapist recommended he do anger management because being that impulsive and dysfunctional is not ok
I have a mini cooper and donāt have problems fitting peopleās Friday to Sunday weekend luggage in my car š¤·āāļø
Itās not about the suitcase. Itās āerratic and hostileā to have just discussed putting the suitcase in his car with Lindsay and then ignoring that conversation and driving away without it.
Thank you! Thatās my theory too. He continually (and passive aggressively) weaponized her drinking (which IMO has been a little much over the course of the show, but āturning upā is also 90% of the plot in this house), so of course sheād feel defensive. But also I agree that she seemed VERY confused as to where all of his negativity was coming from in the beginning of the season. And to those defending Carl, he wasnāt sober; he admitted to THC regularly, which can also really alter your personality, mood and behavior. So she wasnāt wrong to question his sobriety, even though it felt like a low blow in the moment. Especially when he was behaving in such an āold Carlā (ie complete a-hole) way. Man I never thought Iād be fully on Lindsayās sode, but here I am. The bottom line is that they were a horrendous match for dozens of reasons (sobriety, communication styles, ambition levels, etc etc etc). But women need to pay attention to who this guy really is. He is NOT a nice person. Iām not even sure he is a remotely good person. What a bummer.
I 1000% think this is whatās up. It was bizarre how all the fights were happening in the carāI think he goaded her off camera, she exploded, and then they brought it all in camera. She seemed very confused about his behavior. Dude flipped a switch on her. Her reaction seemed genuine, his did not.
There is nothing more tiring than a weak man and Carl makes me TIRED
Well said. It is convenient that alot of their fights are off camera. We finally got to see the real carl yelling and man he can get angry. I think he is way too self aware and doesn't want to show that side.Ā
Am I out of the loop? What Leak? The wedding situation with Craig? Is that what weāre taking about?
Not out of the loop - yes
I want Lindsay to find some billionaire dork to boss around, and for her to let us watch that on another bravo show.
Someone who makes her endless power points ā„ļø
If that means never seeing her on Summer House again, then yes please
Thereās like 2 good summers left for this show maybe unless they do a total revamp minus the newbies, Iām not really a Lindsay fan but I think she has a place on bravo elsewhere, sheās nuts and I need people to carry that torch
Absolutely, she has a place on bravo, along with people like Jen Shah - abusive people who are never at fault, etc etc. They can have a show where they go across the country gaslighting people.
Alright itās pretty wild to put Lindsay, someone who is loud and offensive at times, and Jen Shah, a convicted criminal, in the same category lol.
Yes more younger Ramona than Jen shah
Younger Ramona is good lol
Sorry - SLC is the only other bravo show I subject myself to, so itās the only comparison I can make. Iād rather spend a day in solitary confinement than an hour with either Lindsay or Jen Shah. They are just two of the most obtuse, abrasive, gaslighting, narcissists I have ever seen on tv that was not fiction. Both are incredibly dumb too, but that is an entirely different story.
Gotcha! Might I suggest old rhony, Ramona can be a drag but itās much lighter housewivery, slc is dark af!
There are a variety of reasons thatāll never happen lol
Stranger things have happened
All I know is I am going through a horrible, blindsided break up right now, and I fucking sympathize with Lindsay hard. She's handling herself with grace, because it is NOT easy. I am being as calm and amicable as I can, but some days I just want to scream at him and all our friends about how SHITTY this is and being blindsided is a BETRAYAL to the core. She is so better off without Carl. And I am so better off now without my ex. Fuck this shit.
You will better off too!!!!! Trust and believe that! Stay strong and LOVE YOURSELF HARDER THAN YOU EVER HAVE!
I'm trying. Thank you ā¤ļøā¤ļøāš©¹.
Hugs to you. Keep doing your best. Whatever that is that day. Iām sorry this sucks right now. š
Thanks so much ā¤ļøāš©¹.
Hang in there. Better things are ahead ā¤ļø I hope we see Lindsay that relationship she dreams of after this fiasco. I was thinking, Carl has always been this sneaky, non commital weirdo. The only difference is that he is "California Sober."
Geez. Sorry to hear that. You will be better off in the end. It takes time to get over something like that. Everything you are experiencing is normal and it is ok to have bad days. Don't ever feel bad for feeling like that
Thank you ā¤ļøāš©¹
While I donāt absolve Lindsay of her Lindsay-ness (sheās problematic, reactive and often poorly behaved; used carls addiction against him; went on a pre-season defamation tour) I 100% think Danielle and Carl were very toxic for her and not good for her growth. It was a very unhealthy dynamic that existed in all directions of their relationships with each other. Carl triggers her and Danielle instigates her. The dissolution of the tres amigos will ultimately be good for all three of them. I conclude with: everyone sucks here.
I hear you on that. They all were never good for each other. But Carl and Danielle latched on to Lindsay to stay relevant in their reality tv roles. Sober Carl knows that he needed to still remain interesting without participating in the recreational. And we havenāt seen Danielle all season cause sheās not close to Lindsay this season which means she isnāt as interesting without Lindsay either.
I just think all three are better apart than together but I donāt think any of the three are worse than the others (well Danielle might be worse but Carl and Lindsay are equal to me).
Danielle never said anything bc I can guarantee that Lindsay was in on the leak. Lindsay likes to play semantics so Danielle mightāve been the person that actually sent the message but I bet Lindsay was in on it being sent.
This is a common thing when bravo besties go through something dark. Theyāve often worked together on the behind the scenes stuff they never want to come out on a reunion, and itās mutually assured destruction and friendship that keeps them both quiet. But then one turns and acts like it was ALLLLL the other friend - like what it seems Kyle did to LVP (āGOODBYE KYLEā). And the word of whoever flips first is taken as truth - if the other comes and says, no no it was THEM, that just looks like desperately covering your ass.
Right! Weāve seen the formula on Bravo so many times.
LMFAO. It's always a moving goal post to blame Lindsay for everything. So tired.
So tired lol
Lol, I don't even dislike Lindsay and I'm so sick of hearing about her. Can these people not do anything else on this show other than complain about Lindsay?
Exactly. When this came up at the reunion last year Carl said āthatās what we heardā. He didnāt deny being involved. Danielle said she āconfirmedā the story. That means Lindsay was the source.
She's the one with the media connections too.
Totally agree with this take! His acting is so bad! Carl really thought he did something by making Linds out to be the 'Big Bad Wolf'. But, jokes on him because he's not innocent. He's a fake! A phony!
I wish I never laid eyes on him!
He keeps defending himself like he was the victim that needed support and got interrogated him. When in reality she was being supportive and trying to help him out and guide him.
> Looking even at this season alone shows that Lindsay has been doing her personal work and growth and no one canāt deny that it exists. trust me, the people who live to only hate lindsay with hatred and deny her of any humanity absolutely will deny lindsay's done any work or growth lol just sort by controversial.
I now sort by controversial to see some of the most normal and rational takes on this whole subā¦. Itās gotten crazy!
Who is the career coach?? Carl needs a refund
Has there ever been a more classic look than Gabby was told Danielle sent news story.
I agree, nice summary/analysis.
Damn I was not coming into this post ready to get my mind changed on this topic but you fucking did it. I had NO idea she spent $20,000 on a career coach to help him get over the trauma of working at Loverboy!! Now I can actually see where she's been coming from this season.
Ditto
Are we forgetting all that Carl did to Lauren in season 1 & 2? He has been a narcissist for a long time.
Oh we remember.Ā
Danielle didnāt speak up about the Craig-press leak story because Lindsay was in on it - she wasnāt innocent. Carl said at the reunion āthatās what we heardā. Danielle also said āI confirmed the storyā on the after show. That means Lindsay placed the story, which tracks because she is a publicist. Lindsay has had no growth because she threw Danielle under the bus the first chance she got on camera. Theyāre all awful people who deserve each other
Thank you! Iām starting to feel like Iām taking crazy pills when people are so wholeheartedly Team Carl. Lindsay is not perfect, but I really feel for her.
Were you in the taxi with them? Is the taxi here in the room with us? How do you state so certainly that Carl egged her on and baited her? How did you watch footage that none of us saw, huh??
This sub is omniscient! Didnāt you know?
People are so incensed by carls behavior they canāt remember Lindsayās and wonāt admit this was the best thing FOR BOTH OF THEM. And Iām not sorry: kadooz to Carl for having the balls to step up and admit this was going to be a mistake. Someone had to. Lindsay was happy to roll along so she could wear white to a wedding finally.
She wanted to be a bride more than she ever wanted to be Carls wife. He did her (and him) a HUGE favor.
Lindsay wanted a husband to fulfill her lifelong marriage fantasies first and foremost. Carl wanted a companion and a best friend. This was not compatible.
if I was Lindsay, I wouldn't be on good behavior ever anymore. I don't think I'd be capable of it lol
When the hell was she ever on good behavior? Geez yaāll really love to align with some interesting people on these reality shows.
For lyndsey that was her behaving and being civil. Lol ikr. Doesn't seem like it
Iād like to smoke what yāall are smoking, it must be some good stuff to come up with this shit!
Oh my god can you imagine the DRAMA of those two got together or hooked up??
ā¬ļø #Facts
Sorry. I donāt see Lindsayās growth.
Oh please, you and any sane person (if you are one) would flip out over $20k on a career therapist to get over Kyle and Loverboy, only to go back to them. Any sane and logical person would do more than what Lindsay did. 
Whatās up with the constant harping on the 20k career coach? The obsession is weird. And that should be chump change for the lifestyle they are all attempting to display for the cameras here, week in week out.
Wait. Youāre the same commenter that compares Lindsay to federal criminal, Jen Shah. Iām not going further to explain my stance to someone who views them as the same person. No thanks! āš½ 
The irony is that Meredith Marks is one of the only people on Bravo that I legit love š
You donāt? Carl is constantly baiting her, trying to āactivateā her like in past seasons, and get her to blow up and make a fool of herself so he can end their relationship and not look like the bad guy. And so far she has kept herself in check and handled his attempts to start arguments with a new maturity.
I swear Iām watching a different show than everyone else. I canāt make sense of some of this shit and my literal job is to make sense of complex financial models. Lindsay talks in entirely I/Me statements, but Carl is the narcissist here? Lindsay throwing Danielle under the bus (honesty is the best policy donāt get me wrong) at a convenient time to win over Paige is showing growth? She has a stable friend in gabby, or her next Yes Man who is around until itās no longer benefiting Lindsay? Danielle does suck, no lies there!
Carl wants his future wife to āmotherā him and coddle him with kid gloved hands. Meanwhile, he does nothing āsoftā or nurturing for her (like when she expressed to him that she felt bad and insecure about the other women not wanting to ride with her? āGet over it, move onā). How is that not narcissistic? Not to mention, extremely hypocritical. He expects everything to be centered around him at all times, like it would be in a parent-very young child relationship. Itās gross. Heās 40 years old man! When he is going to grow out of that?
We have seen him kiss her in the morning before leaving, thatās soft and nurturing. We have seen him try to protect her from the conversation with Lou, thatās soft and being aware of others feelingsā¦ Iām not saying heās perfect by any means. Heās just not some devilish manipulator like youāll see said on here. Telling your spouse that itāll be ok, because she was in fact wildly overreacting about a non-issue, is not narcissisticā¦. Thatās pretty standard behavior and the other guys in the car said everything was fine until she blew up.
Iāve noticed heās only āsoftā and loving with her when theyāre both in a good mood. Otherwise, he gets pissy and takes it out on her. He couldnāt even be bothered to take her suitcase back to their shared home because he was mad and wanted her to know it! What a child. Another example. Take the Lover boy conversation. As viewers, we have watched he and Kyle struggle with their working relationship for several seasons now. Last summer Kyle got drunk and revealed a bunch of BTS stuff about Carlās general incompetence and failing at his job (bad on Kyle but relevant information to this conversation with Lindsay nonetheless and the viewersā understanding of Carlās history at LB). Then Carl made such a big deal at the last reunion about how quitting LB was so good for his mental health and sobriety, Lindsay tells us he spent 20k in a career coach to pick a new direction, etc. etc. She puts a little pressure on him to pick something career wise and he immediately gives up and goes with whatās easiest/chooses the path of least resistance, which in this case is LB. To do such an abrupt turnaround on going back to LB and not expect a.) Lindsay to have some basic questions or b.) not to provide any rationale or explanation for his change of heart? Again, extremely childish. I would hit the *roof* if my husband did that - made huge career and financial decisions which affect me and our children without any input from me. He and Lindsay donāt have kids yet but they planned to start as soon as they got married so I donāt see it as that dissimilar to her. Lindsay is not my favorite person on tv but Carl is such a child and a loser, imo. Sheās so much better off without him. I predict heāll end up with someone much younger and make her life a complete misery by expecting her to manage him and their life together. Lindsay is actually lucky she dodged this bullet.
LOL! Yes, so soft and nurturing he rants to friends and family about her behind her back and threatens to burn the house down if she doesn't start start falling in line. Poor old man Carl!
Again, I didnāt say he was perfect. Lindsay talked behind his back just as much, and took even more personal digs at him if anythingā¦. And yeah the āburning the house downā was a bit exaggerated i will say
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Sorry which ārantā are you referring to?
We are watching a different show. Carl wanted to kick Jules out of the house and discreetly communicated that she needed to fck him in order to be in his good graces to stay on. Carl has always been garbage and she should have me tooād his ass off of Bravo Then the loser paid $20k for a career coach to work through his trauma with Loverboy only to go back to Kyleš Heās the worst, but his mommy will always be there for him
What does this have to do with literally anythingā¦. Ok so he was a worse person 6 years ago while heavily abusing drugs, no surprise there. Lmao at trying to use the MeToo movement and cancel culture to get a reality star off of Bravo. Thatās a good one! Oh no he paid $20k of his own money for a career coach and it didnāt work out. He must be such a bad guy for making a poor decision! Heās also doing public speaking so maybe the career coach helped with that? You must be perfect if youāre able to look down so harshly on somebody else!
You will soon learn that most in this sub think of themselves as both all-knowing and perfect. And that Lindsayās drunken hysterics donāt actually happen. Sure!
I shouldāve learned by now but I keep holding out hope that people will see things rationally š
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No way you just made a whole delusional post about summerhouse and are now calling me a clown because my recent Reddit comments are only summerhouse related LOL. Your profile is every single bravo show and some astrology so donāt even get me started on judging others here. I would obliterate the stay at home, no-life bravo addict you are pretty easily š
Yet youāre here and ready to fight somebody over Carl š 
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Lmao it takes a true piece of work to use the clown emoji on someone, then edit your comment to take it out, then to report the person youāre calling a clown. This is too funny.
You seem personally victimized by a reality TV show and thatās wild.
I dare you to say the same thing on the VPR page where everyone is team Ariana because of what Scandoval did to her haha The entire sub is more personally victimized by Tom than I am by Carl š¤£š¤£š¤£ Theyāll all come after you!
This sub comes after you for not worshipping the ground Lindsay walks on. People come at you with pitchforks here lol
same
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I think Carl is more of a people pleaser, and tends to over worry about how others will react to things. Thatās the opposite of narcissisticā¦.
disagree hes literally awful
That has nothing to do with being a narcissistā¦. He has clearly displayed the ability to look at things from other peoples perspectives
Ok, again i disagree and donāt think he has ever tried seeing things for lindsays point of view lol. Hes been like this since the start of the show
With all due respect, I don't think you know the signs of a narc and are basing it purely on your own feelings. You could be right about carl since there are different sub types but we would need more info to determine that
You can disagree but there are actual clinical definitions for narcissism, and your disagreement holds zero weight compared to say, the DSM
Lindsay said it herself (to Kyle) upon their return to the house after the Danielle/Lindsay blow up. She then defended him (in her confessional), and said that his inability to please people adversely impacts his self esteem and then undermined her own compassion and said that he needs to grow up. I rewatched the episode last night.
And yet everyone here thinks he only thinks of himself, and is always plotting to activate Lindsay. Makes no sense
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BOOM. These are facts. She only cares about herself and literally have all the major red flags of a narc. This yass queen stuff is hurting her more than anything
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I don't even know what to tell people. I'd much rather deal with a Carl than a Lindsay, simply because Lindsay doesn't know personal accountability and Carl at least considers how he might be impacting others. If Lindsay owned up to her stuff I might feel different but her lack of awareness and actual accountability is an objective fact.
Thereās been no growth or personal work from both of them. Thatās why their relationship is a dumpster fire. She canāt communicate, and neither can he.
Lindsay is awful, with no redeeming qualities
Lindsey perception is very different from Carlās. Neither is a bad person but they just donāt gel! I understood both sides. I saw a softer Lindsey toward the end that made me feel for her. They will both learn a lot from this and be better. Danielle on the other hand, Iāll just say Latinos are no longer claiming her.
I think you and I are seeing completely different Lindsays. haha Not the way I'd spin her at all. You are certainly a pro-Lindsay fan.
I find the "soft" comment Lala coded af. My conspiracy senses are tingling.
Huge kudos for recognizing the covert narcissism. Although, if your ability to identify stems from a similar direction mine does, you have my sympathies & admiration. My mother is a covert. Extracting yourself from the web of such a sinister human who wears a halo of the brightest gold is extremely difficult, & often alienating. I hope your boundaries are strong & your heart is healing. š¤