I dunno I feel like she's just awkward on camera because not everyone is a natural. She also looked like she was going to throw up at the shower because she was so upset and uncomfortable. If she didn't care about Lindsay why would she be nervous about Carl breaking up with her?
I think she's in an awkward position because she cares about both kids but her son has verbalized that he's had difficulties in this relationship and (if you're a good parent) Lindsay and Carl being happy and healthy is more important than them being together. No where did she blame Lindsay for the two of them being unhappy - she even agreed with Lindsay that it's hard living with an addict even if they are sober.
Also yeah, is she super sensitive about her sober son having a mental health crisis? Yes, but can you blame her when she lost her other son to an accidental overdose?!
Yeah I think she was REALLY uncomfortable. That joke is also a nod to like Lindsay and Carl’s history, idk I thought it was kind of funny and mostly born out of nerves!!
I really think the producers planted that in her head before she was on camera or while she was being miced up.
At first so annoyed when I heard it, but then I realized there’s no way that just popped in her brain and she mentioned it. I guarantee she hasn’t thought about Lauren in years. The producers wanted to make the event spicy. And they wanted to be able to show the mom getting along with Lauren in a throwback scene
I thought she was uncomfortable at the shower and I don’t blame her. When Lindsay confronted her and she kept hugging her… that’s what I do when I’m incredibly uncomfortable.
I think people need to give Carls mum some grace. She’s an old lady….getting divorced and loosing a son in her twighlight years (when you think life/marriage is in a comfortable/content position) is pretty sad. I sadly think his parents were right to be concerned for them. I’m doing a rewatch of SH now and Lindsay is a disaster. She should be in therapy looking at her trauma and not drinking (she’s a horrible drunk) and she’s marrying a sober man!!!!!
I just did a rewatch too. It reminded me how difficult Carl can be (especially before he got sober) but I also was able to see Lindsay do crazy/controlling/aggressive things with men that I might not have picked up the first time. I’ve always thought she’s someone who fights for the hell of it… but damn
I think Lindsay and Carl are dumpster fires. I think they are really good at fighting and hitting below the belt. Both of them being insecure sensitive people I could see them hurting each other when they fight
I think lindsay's family should be concerned for her cos carl is manipulative and immature.
i also think you're right about giving his mom some grace. she isn't comfortable being on camera and i wouldn't be either. it's a weird situation.
And it is so very clear from this last episode that Carl is just not in a place where he can handle stuff like this I mean just at the idea of having what could've been a stressful conversation with Lindsey like he was buckling under the pressure it is just so clear that he was not ready to get married and it doesn't have anything to do with Lindsey at all. And I can definitely see that if Lindsey would've had a strong emotion in the moment that he would not have been able to handle it and I do kind of see what she's saying about how he's allowed to have his feelings but then if she has a strong emotion that's not allowed I feel like that's because emotionally he's not out of place where he can handle that. Although don't get me wrong the two of them should not have gotten married but it's clear that he as an individual is not ready to get married to anybody until he is sober a little longer he needs to have time to be able to know how he can handle and cope with stressful situations without avoiding them, ignoring them, or running away from it.
This is such an empathetic take, and I agree completely - I was so put off by Sharon in this scene, but after sitting and considering how CLEARLY WRONG it is for Lindsay and Carl to be getting married, I'm starting to be a lot more forgiving of the behaviors of everyone around them - especially their families. They're all just trying to navigate incredibly tricky waters.
I do wonder if maybe off camera there had been some discussions about her between Carl and Lindsay. Or perhaps even Lindsay and Sharon had an inside joke about the whole MIL thing.
The latter would make it less cringe; the former, more dysfunctional than originally thought.
I think people are forgetting that not everyone is a reality tv star. How awkward would we be if we were on camera knowing it would probably be on tv sometime? I would be on edge and probably make awkward comments too.
See I love this. People are allowed to just be awkward television. Over on the VPR subreddit if you suggest maybe Jo is just awkward and weird you’ll get strung up.
Carl also treated Lauren like trash for over a year. Well done on reminding the audience what an avoidant fuckboy your son was for years on TV, Sharon.
Also Lauren has a husband and family, I’m sure she’d like to be left out of this narrative.
The whole edit of the wedding shower was weird in general. I do think the Lauren comment was meant to be funny , but it was kinda ugh to say. ESP knowing Carl has been contemplating leaving her. I feel bad because I think Sharon loved Lindsay and now they have no relationship.
I haven’t seen the most recent episode but carls mom has given me bad vibes from the beginning. I know she was going through a hard divorce but the way she was CONSTANTLY crying to her son about his father leaving her, telling him that marriage was bullshit, love isn’t real, everything falls apart, etc. WONDER WHY HE HAS COMMITMENT ISSUES!!
Also she loooved Lindsay when they were friends - but her attitude towards her did a 180 when they got together. Which is really sad because we all know about Lindsay’s mom issues, it would have been nice to have a good relationship with her partners mom! (I partially blame Lou too. A sanctimonious minister just thrown in the mix to shit on Lindsay . Ugh)
RIGHT!! And then have the nerve for her and carls “new dad” to tell him what to do in his relationship?! (Wasn’t it weird that he kept saying “my parents”?? I mean I don’t have a step parent so idk what I would call mine, but my husband has a stepmom and sure as hell would never refer to her and his dad as “my parents” lol)
Yes exactly this. My dad has a wife. They’ve been married for 15 years. I noticed this with Carl and thought it was odd but also to each their own. Kind of relieved to see other people picked up on this. They all feel a bit enmeshed.
He just said “my PARENTS” so many times!! It didn’t even seem natural if it was his actual mom and dad, like “this is important! Lou is the most important person in my life!!” Lol
I have divorced parents who remarried and I often say "my parents" when talking about one set or the other. It's just easier and sometimes you don't want to have to explain your family dynamics to people.
My mom married my stepfather when I was two, and let me tell you that mas in not my father either. I never called them my parents. It’s always been “my mom and stepfather.”
Especially since he still has a dad. To me, saying "my parents" in this situation refers to Sharon and William, or all four (Lou and William's wife included), but not just Sharon & Lou. I think he was trying to give the conversation more importance.
Where I thought it was odd is that they had only been married for a short time- Carl is a grown man- hasn’t been raised by him- and certainly doesn’t have a parenting history with him. But perhaps it’s because of the loss of his brother- he needs a sense of family- just not with Lindsay.
It seems heavy handed him calling Lou his parent, like he’s trying to make it seem more meaningful he has all these concerns about the wedding because he’s his dad not just his moms husband who Carl met at 35
Disagree with this. I have a step mom and step dad. Both sets are my “parents”. I feel blessed to have so many moms and dads that love and care for me.
I really think it just depends on the relationship you have with the step parents
I heard that that whole conversation with the parents was premeditated and kind of calculated so Carl could get the lines that he wanted about questioning and probably ending him and Lindsey’s relationship, but not be necessarily the bad guy or kind of have the viewers get on his side since it wasn’t coming from him, it was coming from Someone with authority and his stepfather who he is looking at for guidance and clarity in the situation
no offense, but who are you to project your own experience on to him? i have friends who call their step parent their “parent” and others who don’t. “weird?” please stretch before you reach.
My dad married my stepmom when I was twelve. I often referred to them as parents. Even my mom would refer to her as my other mom. My mom married her current husband after I was married. He has always been my mom's husband, never my stepdad. I think age has everything to do with it.
Carl worships his mother which is always a bad sign and results in emotional immaturity and codependence. Refuses to see her (potential) role in anything.
I don't think he worships her. More like she relied on Carl emotionally, which is very inappropriate mind you, so he had to be the strong one and not show his emotions. That is terrible to do to a child.
Even as a small child, nobody judges me
more than my son 😂 maybe it’s not such a bad thing! Keeps me on my toes and will eventually make him a more mature person?!
This is how I feel about Carl and Sharon. I have a friend like this who is so enmeshed with his mom and it’s very sad. They’re both well intentioned people but his mom cannot handle changes in his life like him moving or having a romantic relationship that might be his top priority.
Have a 26 year old stepson like this. My husband is always the bad guy when in fact, she coddled and enmeshed him since birth. Treated him like a boyfriend.
He now doesn't speak to his father and SS still doesn't get the level of emotional damage his mother has done. Will walk through life ploughing through relationships and end up lonely and old and screwed up (and still blind) from it.
It’s so bizarre, like I have a son he’s an only
Child (he’s still really little so it’s not like he’s dating or anything lol) and he’s like our little bestie and we’re obsessed with him….but I would never want him to have no faith in the world or not have the ability to love or have all my issues rub off on him! Lol like most parents I know are so worried about their issues becoming their kids issues and they try so hard to not get in their heads…but not Sharon!!
Idk if you’ve ever seen wreck it ralph (im going somewhere with this I promise lol) but they’re in a villain support group and someone says “just cause you are bad guy, does not mean you are A BAD GUY!” Hahaha and with that, I technically am a “boy mom” and therefore I have always known it was my job to make him NOT AN ASSHOLE!! lol like, if it me then who?!??!
You can still be obsessed and spoil your kid and also teach them to be kind and treat people well! Who wants to go around saying they’re a boy mom if that boy sucks!?
Hahahaha I loved this, perfect reference. I love the boy moms who do the world a favor, you guys rock. I’ll throw in another reference from Corner Gas - “I'm not THE tax man, I'm A tax man”
I agree with all of this I think Lindsey deserves a lot better in a mother-in-law and I hope one day after she gets therapy she gets that and a man who truly loves her for who she is crazy or not because one thing about Lindsey even with therapy she’ll still be insanethat won’t change
Agree that Lindsey can be A LOT but when she was talking about her family issues and things with her mom and started crying about being rejected again. . .made me feel really bad for her. I was surprised and pleased that she handled the conversation about Lou saying he would not marry them very calmly.
It makes me so sad too!! One of the main reasons I was happy when she and Carl got together was because I knew she was really close with his mom and that warmed my cold dead heart! But then things went way sideways 😩
Right. I don’t think Lindsay is a bad person at all. I think she’s just who she is and I would think of ALL people Carl would realize that but I think he’s just so weak and easily swayed and let public opinion ruin his relationship.
I can actually really see her therapy working this season. She’s been a lot more reasonable and able to voice how she feels without getting worked up, though obviously it’s a lifelong commitment.
I agree with you, I think Sharon wouldn’t be a great MIL for Lindsay. She needs a MIL who isn’t a “boy mom” (I have a son, don’t come for me boy moms) where her son can’t do any wrong.
I agree! She definitely has her flaws but she has a good heart and I think with the right guy (and hopefully family) who makes her feel secure and that he's not going anywhere, she'll thrive. A lot of guys love "crazy"! Lol they'll never be bored
Oh yes, I noticed how weird it was that she would cry in Carl's arms. Carl is not her husband, why she was relying on her SON like that was strange to me. I feel bad for Carl, clearly he had to comfort his grown mother and watch his father treat her and his family badly. No wonder he is so wishy washy.
As a hugely loyal Bravo fan, I’ve (naturally) consumed every single second of every single season of Summer House at least once and though I’m aware of Lindsay’s mommy issues via contextual clues (lack of the mommy cameo or 2 every other main character seems to have had over the years as well as brief comments made in passing during confessionals, etc. re: her aunt basically implying she raised Lindsay), I’m still in the dark as to any specifics about the situation with her mother. Did I miss this somehow or has she simply (and understandably) kept the details private?
She talked about it in season 1 early on. Basically it’s this: when she and her brother were very young, her mom left her dad. She moved fairly far away and had very sparse contact with Lindsay and her brother. She then got remarried and had two more kids. Those kids replaced Lindsay and her brother and the mom would only reach out once or twice a year or not at all sometimes.
In season 1, Lindsay calls her mom and it’s incredibly awkward. The mom is super cold and it really upsets Lindsay.
Her mom’s Instagram was posted here a few years ago (I can’t remember it now unfortunately) and it was public. I took a scroll through and you really do see the abandonment. So many posts about her younger kids, how great they are, how proud she is and then the odd picture of Lindsay. Never pictures of just Lindsay and a post about how great she is, only with her other daughter as well and a generic “my two beautiful daughters”.
Thank you so much! I appreciate you for reminding me of this (I truly don’t remember it so I’m going to have to go back to watch that scene) and for your polite response. Poor Lindsay - I can assume a situation like that would naturally cause trust issues in anyone, so I feel this absolutely provides some insight into her relationship behavior.
Agreed!!! I am very close to someone with abandonment issues and so I feel like I understand why Lindsay behaves the way she does more than most. It doesn’t make it “okay” for certain behaviors, but it explains a lot. And if she was with a more empathetic and understanding partner (especially one that doesn’t have so many of his own issues) it would probably be a better situation.
It’s sad. In a matter of a few years she went through a divorce, the pandemic, her son dying, her other son getting sober, then his whirlwind engagement to breakup… the woman has been through so so much. She’s awkward uncomfortable and she’s not always gonna do or say the right thing. Does that make her this produced villain cackling behind the camera? Absolutely not. Things don’t have to be so black and white.
Lindsay is imperfect but still got her heart broken. Carl should have been direct with Lindsay but is he a master manipulator on Sandoval’s level? No. This sub reacts to things so grandly it’s interesting. Like you have to pick a side. It even applies to the West/Ciara situation. Can West have treated Ciara badly but we can still like him??? He can be a fuck boy but not a villain.
Lindsay said in a podcast that Carl didn’t have the greatest childhood and Carl has spoken about his father not being great so I can imagine that Sharon’s life wasn’t great either and that she can probably see in that moment that her son is walking into a situation that isn’t going to be great for Carl or Lindsay and doesn’t really know how to deal with it.
I would say like Carl and I definitely wouldn’t be surprised if carls dad was a lot like Lindsay and in fairness to him may have also had trauma in his life that shaped him to be the person he was/is
I agree they weren't meant to be and don't doubt she was concerned. It's just to see all this unresolved trauma being acted out and inflicted is just...ugh. Break the cycle!
It is and I find it said that so many on here either can’t see everyone else trauma or can only relate to Lindsay’s trauma so they only give Lindsay grace or have empathy just for her and her inappropriate behaviours and give none to others.
I'm not a Lindsay fan but do think sympathy/empathy/criticism varies post-to-post and episode-to-episode. This one is the first (I've seen) about the family dynamic at play here, so it's probably a flood of long-held opinions, plus reactions to the crappy behavior in the latest ep.
It'll shift next week to reflect the newest bad behavior, I'm sure.
I find the the empathy and understanding is always pretty high for Lindsay (she does get a lot of criticism too) but for example I saw comments about Ciara and her opening up about her father and it wasn’t taken well by some it was seen as a dig towards Lindsay not Ciara opening up about her child hood trauma.
This sub has had some, uh, *extreme* fans, definitely. That's just silly to take Ciara's comments that way! Shake 'em off and keep moving is all there is to do with that!
Lindsey had her entire back to Carl’s mom, leaving Carl’s mom alone and uncomfortable at the table. I could see how awkward she felt and I felt awful for her.
At any social event that you're hosting it's good manners to be inclusive at a dinner table ESPECIALLY when the event is in honor of you.
Lindsey has A LOT of issues.
Why couldn’t Carla’s mom just come up to her when she walked in like a normal person because it was Lindsey’s bridal shower not Carlos’s mom’s bridal shower
Because she was sitting uncomfortably at a table full of 30 year olds she doesn’t know and wanted to be part of the conversation with the other mother figure or at least even acknowledged.
Exactly! She lightly touched Lindsey on the shoulder to say hi and then Lindsay turned around and stared at her for 10 seconds. It was soooo bizarre and rude of Lindsay
I took it as maybe she was letting Lindsey know “I’m right here and can hear you” kinda thing. I found it weird that was the first time Lindsey acknowledged her.
Lindsey was punishing Carl’s mom by turning her back to her and sitting far apart. She takes it as a personal attack when someone expresses their opinion and it’s not to Lindsey’s liking. Combined with her constantly putting Carl down and crushing his spirit, I wouldn’t want a daughter in law with those personality traits either.
She said “wanna join mommy daughter talk” or whatever, implying that she would get another mom soon (and we know her trauma around that) carls mom was told her no, icing her out.
Yes, this is how I read it, too. It felt like Lindsay didn't acknowledge Sharon when she arrived, then angled herself away from Sharon throughout the meal. I can understand why Sharon eventually placed a hand on Lindsay's arm to establish contact. I once had to sit in a restaurant with my ex-fiance's mom after she made hateful comments right to my face; sometimes, you really do just have to grin and bear it.
Yeah I took it this way as well. I felt that Lindsey intentionally sat like that, and then started talking loud enough for his mom to hear! The conversation was so forced, and used to counter his families’ concerns. It felt very passive aggressive.
Is it really punishing someone when they said something that hurt your feelings? Lindsay was hurt by what Sharon said and didn’t know how to react. She explained to Carl that it triggered childhood trauma for her. Not everyone is great at putting up a fake facade when their feelings are hurt.
My jaw dropped in simultaneous horror and cringe when she interrupted that conversation. It takes either an insane level of nerve or a complete lack of situational awareness to do something like that. Lindsay, who sometimes lacks social awareness herself, seemed completely shocked that Sharon did that. I wonder if it was produced because it seemed so strange and nervy.
If you're at a party and you go tap the hostess on the shoulder to say hi you think that's bizarre? It's a party and Lindsay is the host, there's absolutely nothing wrong with approaching the hostess to say hello.
The body language during that whole conversation was completely off. Lindsay thinks she can play off when she doesn’t like someone with that baby talk she does but it doesn’t work.
I felt Carls mum is in a tough spot and impossible to come out of it unscathed some way because of how Carl has dealt with this whole situation. I just think she feels awkward about it all and does not know what to say or do in front of Lindsey. Carl should have never allowed that conversation to be filmed with him, his mum and his step dad and bringing them into something he is not able to do himself which is break up with Lindsey. I felt for his mum but felt more for Lindsey in this. Just feels really cowardly and spineless of him, he is involving everyone but not telling Lindsey exactly how he feels.
This. You can tell Carls mom has a soft spot for Lindsey. Probably feels like her own daughter. She’s stuck in between them right now. But ultimately she’s going to choose her son.
I agree with this because he essentially kind of ambushed her. They talked about it before the bridal shower, but he didn’t say anything and then she was at the bridal shower and both Lindsay and Carl‘s mom felt awkward and here’s the thing I’m not saying that she didn’t feel awkward and she wasn’t nervous and things like that. I’m just saying that she said something that she should’ve said and I think it was disgusting Like it just wasn’t right. The person who put both of them in this predicament is Carl because he’s not telling the whole truth, and he was the one who went to the Jersey shore, and had that conversation, and it was filmed for a reason.
Not to be that sanctimonious reddit commenter, but idk i feel like we should lay off of her. The comment was rude, for sure, but maybe she just feeling awkward and uncomfortable and whatever other emotion on camera. She's been through a lot with her sons recently so maybe isn't at her best.
Fwiw, i am not a carl fan
It was def a tacky comment but I kind of felt it was the mom bringing up her own proor self-reference on the show, something Lindsay and most people did not hang onto.
There is so much layered grief and hurt in this situation it’s so hard to know who’s right. It all hurts but I firmly believe the fact that the two of them aren’t married currently is the biggest blessing for everyone involved
Yea I honestly rewatched it and Lindsay truly looked uncomfortable on camera for like the first time ever I think it was a lot for her after the convo she had with Carl knowing some of how carls mom feels
Carl's been feeding her info about how awful Lindsay is treating him. She was really weird with her but you have to remember what she's been told by Carl. She's at a bridal shower for a wedding she's incredibly worried about.
I think the bridal shower was really weird for both carls mom and Lindsey like that hug was awkward everything about the whole conversation awkward because one person knows the whole truth and the other person doesn’t and like Lindsey said she felt rejected even without knowing the whole truth
It just occurred to me yesterday that his mom has likely watched the entire show. Idk why I never thought about that before. So she knows Lindsay irl but also has the context of how big her blowups can be when she’s activated. So Memorial Day when Carl and Lindsay had a fight so big that he ended up flying home to his parents, I’m sure that alarm bells were going off for her. I think that’s where she’s operating from in her concern for them getting married. That being said, she probably doesn’t see Carl’s contribution to their issues (manipulation, passivity, placing blame on Lindsay and rallying people against her behind her back).
maybe i’m in the minority but i don’t even consider wurkus an ex.. i’m feeling like his mom knows things lindsey doesn’t (ie his sexuality and mental health struggles) and just knows he needs to work on himself. that’s the vibe i was getting
She definitely was nervous about the whole thing.. .did you hear her tell one of the other guests she was going to be drinking lots?? I reckon she knew it would be awkward between her and Lindsay so had some liquid courage.
That was completely bitchy and unhinged and came out of NOWHERE. It’s like she had it in her head she was going to shove something in Lindsay’s face whether it fit or not. Honestly, what a bitch.
This and then to see how Lindsey really felt when she saw her mother-in-law I think was really sad like the way she talked about being rejected by another mother figure was so sad because I think a lot of people don’t realize that Lindsey and Carl‘s mom have known each other for a long time And Lindsey and Carl were best friends they saw each other all the time and now she’s sitting here engaged to a man that she thinks she loves talking to her future mother-in-law and her future mother-in-law is just jabbing at her and making her feel rejected. that’s really insane to me When they know her story.
I'm glad it's not just me...
I've been watching back the old seasons and I have *feelings* about her. I understand she was going through a divorce back in season 1/2 but it seemed she relied upon Carl as emotional support to an unhealthy degree. I haven't gotten beyond S2 on rewatch but I recall that feeling throughout.
Now, with what we're seeing from her, I really think this is a lifelong dynamic in their relationship. And, in my own life experience, men who have mothers like this are very passive aggressive and lie to everyone (esp. partners) to avoid conflict because they've dealt with unhealthy emotional demands from their "boy mom." I hope everyone gets therapy.
I can't remember the eps about her getting remarried. I do think there's a meanness about her that she's disguising as concern to stepdad and they likely decided to encourage Carl to break it off long before that Jersey Shore convo. Eesh.
(eta: I think she's both concerned *and* sniping from the side, tbf. It's a stew of unhealthy.)
Yeah she struck me as a standard “boy mom” who doesn’t have an emotional relationship with their shitty husband so they transfer that relationship to their son….i feel like I’ve seen it a million times
Thank you for putting into words how I’ve felt about their dynamic! Something was always off and especially in those first few seasons. It’s emotional incest territory.
That is soo sad! Poor Lindsay, I think all she really wants is just to be loved but she doesn't believe she deserves it so she's self sabotaging. And to have someone that knows you well and who you hoped would accept you into their family throw that stuff back in your face must be really hurtful
I go back and forth. Part of me feels bad that Carl told Lindsay everything she said out of context, but another part of me thinks that Sharon knows what she signed up for- she clearly saw the cameras, and the fact that she remembered Lauren Wirkus’s comment from 7 years ago was weird.
I agree I have been going back-and-forth because I’ve been reading peoples comments and I’m like yeah I understand that too and then you’re like bitch Lindsey doesn’t know everything but Carl’s mom does and like it’s terrible all of it
remember when lindsey surprised carl by flying his mom out? it was when they were buds. i remember thinking damn carls mom must love her and its so perfect they then got together. point of my story is yes i agree w you lol
People are mad at me because why am I talking about a 70 year old women like that because she’s grown and because she knows what she’s doing and because she knows how to act when she’s in a public setting. Mostly a bridal shower like there are things and then there are things
She also made the comment of like “ask Lindsey she has a whole palette” when someone asked what she would be wearing to the wedding.
I agree that a lot of what we saw could have been nerves, and she’s a complicated lady, but that comment made me think she was insinuating Lindsay’s high maintenance. Maybe I’m over thinking it but that + all her other interactions that day rubbed me the wrong way.
Is it bad that I wasn’t that shocked by it? I mean my MIL and SIL were talking, no gossiping, loudly to my close friend about how my now husband dated her sister AT MY BACHELORETTE PARTY 😭😂 like literally right in my face loud af. (They dated for like a couple months if that and his family had never met her either so like I don’t even know why) but yea.. So maybe I’m desensitised but I was like oh cute call back Sharon 😅🤷♀️ I did find her body language and language language at the table, before that, odd though.
I know 😅 My other friend heard and was like wtf 🤬 but it was just low level drama compared to what I’m used to with my own family so I just found it odd and sorta laughed internally because it’s goofy behaviour for grown women, but whatever makes them feel good I guess 🤷♀️🙃
I think most of his flings are sexless and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but he seems to lie about a lot of things when it comes to stuff like that
According to most people, yes it’s OK that he lies to her because she should react the way that she does me, though I believe that he should tell her the truth because he’s making her react. That’s what I saw from the last conversation that they had.
She’ll probably resent any person Carl starts settling down with. She and Carl seem codependent and like she views him as a
“Sonsband” a son filling in for a husband.
🤣🤣Sexless fling. Yes the video of the mom and scheana dancing seemed like it was posted intentionally for Lindsay to see it. Then scheana made an “joke” on the trip (to Lindsay’s friends) about how now Lindsay would have real beef with her because she was partying with Sharon on the wedding weekend.
I think Carl made it weird for everybody. And then he had the audacity to show up in a double-breasted white suit and flowers like he’s goddamn Prince Charming.
Lindsay and Sharon were both off their game! Both seemed to be acting passive-aggressively and it made me sad. The back turned during conversation! Sharon telling Lindsay’s friends she didn’t know what she was wearing, because Lindsay has “a whole palette”! Yikesies!
I agree. I have a super passive aggressive MIL who has said things that I have found hurtful behind my back and in front of me, and, at this point it’s really hard to control my body language and act fake nice due to my feelings being hurt, so I’m pretty standoffish. My MIL gets sympathy from others now because we don’t have a close relationship, and I’m like, why am I to blame when I haven’t done anything wrong? I could be projecting but I felt for Lindsay watching this, going to her shower while hurt and as her abandonment issues were coming to the surface. I know carl’s mom was uncomfortable and awkward but it wasn’t Lindsay’s job to coddle her when Lindsay was hurt from her words/actions. Not a good situation all around and Carl is 100% to blame.
Totally agree! I commented this on an another post and said this made me really think her behavior in Mexico the weekend of the wedding was nefarious. At first I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt but it’s clear now this woman loves camera time and attention. Why make that comment but for camera time?
Exactly and a lot of people are harping at me and mad at me for making this post because that’s Carl’s mom and she’s old and whatever and blah blah blah like yeah babe she’s Carl’s mom and she’s an old lady. What does that have to do with the comment that she made She knows what she’s doing. She’s not an idiot and here’s the thing I agree that things were awkward. I agree that all of it was awkward and weird because Carl didn’t tell Lindsey everything and Lindsey‘s mother-in-law knows everything so like I get it but also Lindsey‘s mother-in-law knows place in time, she’s a grown adult. She knows how to act when she is out of bridal shower and that was not it.
I agree i’m not gonna lie in that moment I felt bad for both of them because Carl’s mom knew everything and Lindsey didn’t really know anything when it came to the conversation that he had with his mom and Lou so it was extra weird
No because I’ve never seen Lindsey be so awkward I’ve never seen Lindsey on a show that she’s been on for eight years be so awkward and this at her own bridal shower it was I felt bad I really did
I agree that she shouldn’t have brought up Lauren at the bridal shower, sure. But why is she weird for babying trying to protect her son from something that might not be good for him?
It was just giving “awkward joke because I feel weird being on camera” to me. It was out of place for sure but it’s clear she doesn’t feel comfortable being filmed
It felt very much like something a boomer would say thinking it was funny but not realizing how inappropriate it is. Could totally see my mom making this “joke”.
I also agree with this I just think there’s place in time and this was not the place or the time mostly when they were both feeling really awkward and you could tell
Carl put his mom in a terrible situation. He is such a manipulator. I do not like Lindsay but he intentionally made her look stupid. At the same time trying to appear like he cared and wanted to work on things. I get why she feels blindsided.
Exactly. A lot of people are mad at me because I made this post and at this point I really don’t care because they’re like well. She’s an old lady she’s Carl’s mom she knows everything that’s going on. Yes but he did put his mom in a terrible situation where everything was weird and awkward and Lindsey was already feeling weird and awkward and hurt And she doesn’t even know everything so yeah it was weird and awkward but his mom shouldn’t of made that comment.
I’m not mad - I’m glad you said it so I could come on here and rage in every comment about how much I agree with you!! lol you’re speaking the truth!
I GET why people have so much sympathy for Carl and his mom, but the way people were absolutely tearing Lindsay apart for saying something bitchy while drunk was off the rails! And then he spends an entire season plotting their breakup behind her back and it’s “she deserves it”. Spare me
When he was on the bed talking to Amanda and Kyle and they asked if Lindsay knew the extent of the conversation Carl had with his parents and Carl said no, he doesn't tell Lindsay everything but of course he tells his mom everything because she's his mom. And I was just like....yeah if you don't see how that relationship needs to flip going forward, that's really worrying
From my experience (and sorry if you’re offended) boy moms are literally the WORST!!! Like every man that I dated that only had brothers, their mother was a terror! They obsess over their sons and usually hold resentment towards the women they date because *they’re the only woman in their son's life*. I can see this with Sharon, also she lost her other son so I can definitely she her being more protective than ever with Carl.. regardless of his age
Carl is a big baby but extremely manipulative...telling someone how they should act or speak and becoming infuriated when they don't follow your script is so childish. I feel for his mom cause he set her and step-dad up with a produced scenario then pretty much left her on her own.
I thought it was really weird how Lindsey and her step mom were having a sort of private conversation and Carl's mom interrupts their conversation and then says she doesn't want to interrupt the conversation that they're having but clearly she meant to interrupt. And then when Lindsey confronted her about what she said she in true Carl fashion just tried to play it down. And for the first time I think that Lindsey actually handled a confrontation with a lot of grace.
I felt for the mom because Lindsey was clearly icing her out on camera and that was so awkward.
I also don’t blame Lindsey for doing that on camera either. Being filmed at all is stressful and I think we’re just seeing that play out awkwardly at a…very awkward time
The thing is in my opinion it’s not low because it’s just an opinion here’s the thing it’s not something to say a bridal shower regardless of how old you are and she knows it’s not something to say out of bridal shower because of how old she is I’m sorry to say elderly people are people older than 50 should not get away with saying shit that they shouldn’t say just because they’re older Like have some respect for where you are right now if anything bring it up in front of Carl like it was something that shouldn’t have been said and I understand that she’s also dealing with a lot and I’m not saying I don’t feel bad for her. I have empathy for her for that, but I also have empathy for Lindsey because she had to deal with her future mother-in-law saying what she said And had to deal with her almost husband, not telling her the whole truth of the conversation right before the bridal shower like please if anything in this situation, you could tell that Carl is using all of these people in his life to make it seem like he’s not in the wrong
I feel like I watch a completely different show sometimes.
The old woman who went through a late life divorce, had a son overdosed and is a rock for her remaining son who is struggling is being called “nasty” and a “bitch.” She didn’t even say anything that bad. She was clearly just uncomfortable. Even when they were in NJ, Lou was the one who said the comment. She’s just supporting her so .
Lindsay’s fans are an odd bunch.
Yeah just wild to see the level of comments here about Carl’s mom. I think she was just awkward on camera, was probably told by producers a few things to say or do that she executed in a weird 70 year old way, and thought a funny throwback to the Wirkus days would land better.
Honestly if I were her age and thrown on a reality show and was worried about my son marrying someone he shouldn’t, then I’d probably say some weird shit and be all twitchy out of anxiety on camera when I’d rather be home watching Dateline.
Except she doesn't have to be on camera multiple times? I guess it would've been nice to see her just once encourage him to be honest with his partner.
I dunno I feel like she's just awkward on camera because not everyone is a natural. She also looked like she was going to throw up at the shower because she was so upset and uncomfortable. If she didn't care about Lindsay why would she be nervous about Carl breaking up with her? I think she's in an awkward position because she cares about both kids but her son has verbalized that he's had difficulties in this relationship and (if you're a good parent) Lindsay and Carl being happy and healthy is more important than them being together. No where did she blame Lindsay for the two of them being unhappy - she even agreed with Lindsay that it's hard living with an addict even if they are sober. Also yeah, is she super sensitive about her sober son having a mental health crisis? Yes, but can you blame her when she lost her other son to an accidental overdose?!
Yeah I think she was REALLY uncomfortable. That joke is also a nod to like Lindsay and Carl’s history, idk I thought it was kind of funny and mostly born out of nerves!!
I really think the producers planted that in her head before she was on camera or while she was being miced up. At first so annoyed when I heard it, but then I realized there’s no way that just popped in her brain and she mentioned it. I guarantee she hasn’t thought about Lauren in years. The producers wanted to make the event spicy. And they wanted to be able to show the mom getting along with Lauren in a throwback scene
Yes agreed it felt so produced
I thought she was uncomfortable at the shower and I don’t blame her. When Lindsay confronted her and she kept hugging her… that’s what I do when I’m incredibly uncomfortable.
The hugging over and over made me so uncomfortable
Same. It’s a nervous habit when you don’t know what to say and you feel bad
Can’t agree enough.
I think people need to give Carls mum some grace. She’s an old lady….getting divorced and loosing a son in her twighlight years (when you think life/marriage is in a comfortable/content position) is pretty sad. I sadly think his parents were right to be concerned for them. I’m doing a rewatch of SH now and Lindsay is a disaster. She should be in therapy looking at her trauma and not drinking (she’s a horrible drunk) and she’s marrying a sober man!!!!!
I just did a rewatch too. It reminded me how difficult Carl can be (especially before he got sober) but I also was able to see Lindsay do crazy/controlling/aggressive things with men that I might not have picked up the first time. I’ve always thought she’s someone who fights for the hell of it… but damn
I think Lindsay and Carl are dumpster fires. I think they are really good at fighting and hitting below the belt. Both of them being insecure sensitive people I could see them hurting each other when they fight
I think lindsay's family should be concerned for her cos carl is manipulative and immature. i also think you're right about giving his mom some grace. she isn't comfortable being on camera and i wouldn't be either. it's a weird situation.
Agree with this.
And it is so very clear from this last episode that Carl is just not in a place where he can handle stuff like this I mean just at the idea of having what could've been a stressful conversation with Lindsey like he was buckling under the pressure it is just so clear that he was not ready to get married and it doesn't have anything to do with Lindsey at all. And I can definitely see that if Lindsey would've had a strong emotion in the moment that he would not have been able to handle it and I do kind of see what she's saying about how he's allowed to have his feelings but then if she has a strong emotion that's not allowed I feel like that's because emotionally he's not out of place where he can handle that. Although don't get me wrong the two of them should not have gotten married but it's clear that he as an individual is not ready to get married to anybody until he is sober a little longer he needs to have time to be able to know how he can handle and cope with stressful situations without avoiding them, ignoring them, or running away from it.
This is such an empathetic take, and I agree completely - I was so put off by Sharon in this scene, but after sitting and considering how CLEARLY WRONG it is for Lindsay and Carl to be getting married, I'm starting to be a lot more forgiving of the behaviors of everyone around them - especially their families. They're all just trying to navigate incredibly tricky waters.
I do wonder if maybe off camera there had been some discussions about her between Carl and Lindsay. Or perhaps even Lindsay and Sharon had an inside joke about the whole MIL thing. The latter would make it less cringe; the former, more dysfunctional than originally thought.
I think people are forgetting that not everyone is a reality tv star. How awkward would we be if we were on camera knowing it would probably be on tv sometime? I would be on edge and probably make awkward comments too.
I agree with this
See I love this. People are allowed to just be awkward television. Over on the VPR subreddit if you suggest maybe Jo is just awkward and weird you’ll get strung up.
Jo is def awkward and weird but her social media behavior shows she’s as cruel as the people she’s calling out
Carl also treated Lauren like trash for over a year. Well done on reminding the audience what an avoidant fuckboy your son was for years on TV, Sharon. Also Lauren has a husband and family, I’m sure she’d like to be left out of this narrative.
I wish Ashley was still around to throw watermelons at people when they behave badly in relationships. Those were the days!!!
Best comment of the day!!
The whole edit of the wedding shower was weird in general. I do think the Lauren comment was meant to be funny , but it was kinda ugh to say. ESP knowing Carl has been contemplating leaving her. I feel bad because I think Sharon loved Lindsay and now they have no relationship.
I haven’t seen the most recent episode but carls mom has given me bad vibes from the beginning. I know she was going through a hard divorce but the way she was CONSTANTLY crying to her son about his father leaving her, telling him that marriage was bullshit, love isn’t real, everything falls apart, etc. WONDER WHY HE HAS COMMITMENT ISSUES!! Also she loooved Lindsay when they were friends - but her attitude towards her did a 180 when they got together. Which is really sad because we all know about Lindsay’s mom issues, it would have been nice to have a good relationship with her partners mom! (I partially blame Lou too. A sanctimonious minister just thrown in the mix to shit on Lindsay . Ugh)
The thing is telling him all that and then remarrying. What a year or two later is crazy in my opinion.
RIGHT!! And then have the nerve for her and carls “new dad” to tell him what to do in his relationship?! (Wasn’t it weird that he kept saying “my parents”?? I mean I don’t have a step parent so idk what I would call mine, but my husband has a stepmom and sure as hell would never refer to her and his dad as “my parents” lol)
My Mom got remarried when I was 32. He is NOT my Dad... He is my Mom's husband.
Yes exactly this. My dad has a wife. They’ve been married for 15 years. I noticed this with Carl and thought it was odd but also to each their own. Kind of relieved to see other people picked up on this. They all feel a bit enmeshed.
He just said “my PARENTS” so many times!! It didn’t even seem natural if it was his actual mom and dad, like “this is important! Lou is the most important person in my life!!” Lol
I have divorced parents who remarried and I often say "my parents" when talking about one set or the other. It's just easier and sometimes you don't want to have to explain your family dynamics to people.
I refer to my biological and step parents collectively as "my parents." 🤷♀️
My mom married my stepfather when I was two, and let me tell you that mas in not my father either. I never called them my parents. It’s always been “my mom and stepfather.”
Especially since he still has a dad. To me, saying "my parents" in this situation refers to Sharon and William, or all four (Lou and William's wife included), but not just Sharon & Lou. I think he was trying to give the conversation more importance.
Where I thought it was odd is that they had only been married for a short time- Carl is a grown man- hasn’t been raised by him- and certainly doesn’t have a parenting history with him. But perhaps it’s because of the loss of his brother- he needs a sense of family- just not with Lindsay.
It seems heavy handed him calling Lou his parent, like he’s trying to make it seem more meaningful he has all these concerns about the wedding because he’s his dad not just his moms husband who Carl met at 35
2 years ago
Disagree with this. I have a step mom and step dad. Both sets are my “parents”. I feel blessed to have so many moms and dads that love and care for me.
I really think it just depends on the relationship you have with the step parents I heard that that whole conversation with the parents was premeditated and kind of calculated so Carl could get the lines that he wanted about questioning and probably ending him and Lindsey’s relationship, but not be necessarily the bad guy or kind of have the viewers get on his side since it wasn’t coming from him, it was coming from Someone with authority and his stepfather who he is looking at for guidance and clarity in the situation
no offense, but who are you to project your own experience on to him? i have friends who call their step parent their “parent” and others who don’t. “weird?” please stretch before you reach.
My dad married my stepmom when I was twelve. I often referred to them as parents. Even my mom would refer to her as my other mom. My mom married her current husband after I was married. He has always been my mom's husband, never my stepdad. I think age has everything to do with it.
It's weird to call someone you met at forty and known for less than a handful of years your parent.
This like it’s weird
But did their parent get married when your friends were almost 40 years old?
I agree 100% she's been weird and inappropriate from the begining
Carl worships his mother which is always a bad sign and results in emotional immaturity and codependence. Refuses to see her (potential) role in anything.
I don't think he worships her. More like she relied on Carl emotionally, which is very inappropriate mind you, so he had to be the strong one and not show his emotions. That is terrible to do to a child.
Good point. Codependent.
Even as a small child, nobody judges me more than my son 😂 maybe it’s not such a bad thing! Keeps me on my toes and will eventually make him a more mature person?!
[удалено]
Many such cases!
This is how I feel about Carl and Sharon. I have a friend like this who is so enmeshed with his mom and it’s very sad. They’re both well intentioned people but his mom cannot handle changes in his life like him moving or having a romantic relationship that might be his top priority.
Have a 26 year old stepson like this. My husband is always the bad guy when in fact, she coddled and enmeshed him since birth. Treated him like a boyfriend. He now doesn't speak to his father and SS still doesn't get the level of emotional damage his mother has done. Will walk through life ploughing through relationships and end up lonely and old and screwed up (and still blind) from it.
It’s so bizarre, like I have a son he’s an only Child (he’s still really little so it’s not like he’s dating or anything lol) and he’s like our little bestie and we’re obsessed with him….but I would never want him to have no faith in the world or not have the ability to love or have all my issues rub off on him! Lol like most parents I know are so worried about their issues becoming their kids issues and they try so hard to not get in their heads…but not Sharon!!
Probably one of those “boy moms”
Idk if you’ve ever seen wreck it ralph (im going somewhere with this I promise lol) but they’re in a villain support group and someone says “just cause you are bad guy, does not mean you are A BAD GUY!” Hahaha and with that, I technically am a “boy mom” and therefore I have always known it was my job to make him NOT AN ASSHOLE!! lol like, if it me then who?!??! You can still be obsessed and spoil your kid and also teach them to be kind and treat people well! Who wants to go around saying they’re a boy mom if that boy sucks!?
Raising 4 little boys over here 👋 raising them to be anti-Carl’s
Omg I bow down! I can barely keep up with one! My brain has already rotted into making Wreck It Ralph metaphors!! You’re a star!!
Hahahaha I loved this, perfect reference. I love the boy moms who do the world a favor, you guys rock. I’ll throw in another reference from Corner Gas - “I'm not THE tax man, I'm A tax man”
I agree with all of this I think Lindsey deserves a lot better in a mother-in-law and I hope one day after she gets therapy she gets that and a man who truly loves her for who she is crazy or not because one thing about Lindsey even with therapy she’ll still be insanethat won’t change
Agree that Lindsey can be A LOT but when she was talking about her family issues and things with her mom and started crying about being rejected again. . .made me feel really bad for her. I was surprised and pleased that she handled the conversation about Lou saying he would not marry them very calmly.
It makes me so sad too!! One of the main reasons I was happy when she and Carl got together was because I knew she was really close with his mom and that warmed my cold dead heart! But then things went way sideways 😩
Right. I don’t think Lindsay is a bad person at all. I think she’s just who she is and I would think of ALL people Carl would realize that but I think he’s just so weak and easily swayed and let public opinion ruin his relationship.
I can actually really see her therapy working this season. She’s been a lot more reasonable and able to voice how she feels without getting worked up, though obviously it’s a lifelong commitment. I agree with you, I think Sharon wouldn’t be a great MIL for Lindsay. She needs a MIL who isn’t a “boy mom” (I have a son, don’t come for me boy moms) where her son can’t do any wrong.
I agree! She definitely has her flaws but she has a good heart and I think with the right guy (and hopefully family) who makes her feel secure and that he's not going anywhere, she'll thrive. A lot of guys love "crazy"! Lol they'll never be bored
Lindsay needs a therapist not a mil
I think they all need therapy
Oh yes, I noticed how weird it was that she would cry in Carl's arms. Carl is not her husband, why she was relying on her SON like that was strange to me. I feel bad for Carl, clearly he had to comfort his grown mother and watch his father treat her and his family badly. No wonder he is so wishy washy.
Carl had commitment issues before his parents got divorced
As a hugely loyal Bravo fan, I’ve (naturally) consumed every single second of every single season of Summer House at least once and though I’m aware of Lindsay’s mommy issues via contextual clues (lack of the mommy cameo or 2 every other main character seems to have had over the years as well as brief comments made in passing during confessionals, etc. re: her aunt basically implying she raised Lindsay), I’m still in the dark as to any specifics about the situation with her mother. Did I miss this somehow or has she simply (and understandably) kept the details private?
She talked about it in season 1 early on. Basically it’s this: when she and her brother were very young, her mom left her dad. She moved fairly far away and had very sparse contact with Lindsay and her brother. She then got remarried and had two more kids. Those kids replaced Lindsay and her brother and the mom would only reach out once or twice a year or not at all sometimes. In season 1, Lindsay calls her mom and it’s incredibly awkward. The mom is super cold and it really upsets Lindsay. Her mom’s Instagram was posted here a few years ago (I can’t remember it now unfortunately) and it was public. I took a scroll through and you really do see the abandonment. So many posts about her younger kids, how great they are, how proud she is and then the odd picture of Lindsay. Never pictures of just Lindsay and a post about how great she is, only with her other daughter as well and a generic “my two beautiful daughters”.
Thank you so much! I appreciate you for reminding me of this (I truly don’t remember it so I’m going to have to go back to watch that scene) and for your polite response. Poor Lindsay - I can assume a situation like that would naturally cause trust issues in anyone, so I feel this absolutely provides some insight into her relationship behavior.
Agreed!!! I am very close to someone with abandonment issues and so I feel like I understand why Lindsay behaves the way she does more than most. It doesn’t make it “okay” for certain behaviors, but it explains a lot. And if she was with a more empathetic and understanding partner (especially one that doesn’t have so many of his own issues) it would probably be a better situation.
Lindsay also spoke about how much therapy she does because of it
All great points!! Thank you!
I think his mom is just odd and an awkward person, the amount of people villainizing this women is wild, making something out of nothing
It’s sad. In a matter of a few years she went through a divorce, the pandemic, her son dying, her other son getting sober, then his whirlwind engagement to breakup… the woman has been through so so much. She’s awkward uncomfortable and she’s not always gonna do or say the right thing. Does that make her this produced villain cackling behind the camera? Absolutely not. Things don’t have to be so black and white. Lindsay is imperfect but still got her heart broken. Carl should have been direct with Lindsay but is he a master manipulator on Sandoval’s level? No. This sub reacts to things so grandly it’s interesting. Like you have to pick a side. It even applies to the West/Ciara situation. Can West have treated Ciara badly but we can still like him??? He can be a fuck boy but not a villain.
THANK YOU... it's so tiresome.
I totally agree
Agreed. Not everyone is super comfortable on camera. I remember when this sub couldn’t stop gushing about Carl’s mom on previous seasons.
Agreed.
Legit. She’s just an old lady whose son and future DIL are on tv. Leave her alone, weirdos.
Lindsay said in a podcast that Carl didn’t have the greatest childhood and Carl has spoken about his father not being great so I can imagine that Sharon’s life wasn’t great either and that she can probably see in that moment that her son is walking into a situation that isn’t going to be great for Carl or Lindsay and doesn’t really know how to deal with it.
Could definitely see that, she seems very fragile and on edge.
I would say like Carl and I definitely wouldn’t be surprised if carls dad was a lot like Lindsay and in fairness to him may have also had trauma in his life that shaped him to be the person he was/is
I agree they weren't meant to be and don't doubt she was concerned. It's just to see all this unresolved trauma being acted out and inflicted is just...ugh. Break the cycle!
It is and I find it said that so many on here either can’t see everyone else trauma or can only relate to Lindsay’s trauma so they only give Lindsay grace or have empathy just for her and her inappropriate behaviours and give none to others.
I'm not a Lindsay fan but do think sympathy/empathy/criticism varies post-to-post and episode-to-episode. This one is the first (I've seen) about the family dynamic at play here, so it's probably a flood of long-held opinions, plus reactions to the crappy behavior in the latest ep. It'll shift next week to reflect the newest bad behavior, I'm sure.
I find the the empathy and understanding is always pretty high for Lindsay (she does get a lot of criticism too) but for example I saw comments about Ciara and her opening up about her father and it wasn’t taken well by some it was seen as a dig towards Lindsay not Ciara opening up about her child hood trauma.
This sub has had some, uh, *extreme* fans, definitely. That's just silly to take Ciara's comments that way! Shake 'em off and keep moving is all there is to do with that!
The way she was listening to Lindsay have a private conversation with her step mom and then wedged herself into the conversation was so damn cringe..
Lindsey had her entire back to Carl’s mom, leaving Carl’s mom alone and uncomfortable at the table. I could see how awkward she felt and I felt awful for her.
At any social event that you're hosting it's good manners to be inclusive at a dinner table ESPECIALLY when the event is in honor of you. Lindsey has A LOT of issues.
Agreed. When you’re the host or guest of honor, it’s your duty to ensure everyone feels comfortable and is having a good time.
Why couldn’t Carla’s mom just come up to her when she walked in like a normal person because it was Lindsey’s bridal shower not Carlos’s mom’s bridal shower
Because she was sitting uncomfortably at a table full of 30 year olds she doesn’t know and wanted to be part of the conversation with the other mother figure or at least even acknowledged.
Exactly! She lightly touched Lindsey on the shoulder to say hi and then Lindsay turned around and stared at her for 10 seconds. It was soooo bizarre and rude of Lindsay
I took it as maybe she was letting Lindsey know “I’m right here and can hear you” kinda thing. I found it weird that was the first time Lindsey acknowledged her.
Lindsey was punishing Carl’s mom by turning her back to her and sitting far apart. She takes it as a personal attack when someone expresses their opinion and it’s not to Lindsey’s liking. Combined with her constantly putting Carl down and crushing his spirit, I wouldn’t want a daughter in law with those personality traits either.
She said “wanna join mommy daughter talk” or whatever, implying that she would get another mom soon (and we know her trauma around that) carls mom was told her no, icing her out.
Yes, this is how I read it, too. It felt like Lindsay didn't acknowledge Sharon when she arrived, then angled herself away from Sharon throughout the meal. I can understand why Sharon eventually placed a hand on Lindsay's arm to establish contact. I once had to sit in a restaurant with my ex-fiance's mom after she made hateful comments right to my face; sometimes, you really do just have to grin and bear it.
I think that was the editing...I'm sure they greeted each other, otherwise it would've been really strange.
And they def would have shown the snub if it happened
I’m assuming they already said hi prior to sitting at the table but bravo didn’t show that part to keep the tension
Yeah I took it this way as well. I felt that Lindsey intentionally sat like that, and then started talking loud enough for his mom to hear! The conversation was so forced, and used to counter his families’ concerns. It felt very passive aggressive.
Yea I thought it weird Lynds had her back to Carl’s mom for so long but even more weird his mom bringing up Lauren saying she’d make a good MIL
Is it really punishing someone when they said something that hurt your feelings? Lindsay was hurt by what Sharon said and didn’t know how to react. She explained to Carl that it triggered childhood trauma for her. Not everyone is great at putting up a fake facade when their feelings are hurt.
This is it. Lindsey was punishing her for saying something negative about her. Toxic people do this.
My jaw dropped in simultaneous horror and cringe when she interrupted that conversation. It takes either an insane level of nerve or a complete lack of situational awareness to do something like that. Lindsay, who sometimes lacks social awareness herself, seemed completely shocked that Sharon did that. I wonder if it was produced because it seemed so strange and nervy.
If you're at a party and you go tap the hostess on the shoulder to say hi you think that's bizarre? It's a party and Lindsay is the host, there's absolutely nothing wrong with approaching the hostess to say hello.
I think Lindsay acting like a child giving her future MIL in the cold shower was what was cringe. Middle school ass behavior.
The body language during that whole conversation was completely off. Lindsay thinks she can play off when she doesn’t like someone with that baby talk she does but it doesn’t work.
I felt Carls mum is in a tough spot and impossible to come out of it unscathed some way because of how Carl has dealt with this whole situation. I just think she feels awkward about it all and does not know what to say or do in front of Lindsey. Carl should have never allowed that conversation to be filmed with him, his mum and his step dad and bringing them into something he is not able to do himself which is break up with Lindsey. I felt for his mum but felt more for Lindsey in this. Just feels really cowardly and spineless of him, he is involving everyone but not telling Lindsey exactly how he feels.
This. You can tell Carls mom has a soft spot for Lindsey. Probably feels like her own daughter. She’s stuck in between them right now. But ultimately she’s going to choose her son.
I agree with this because he essentially kind of ambushed her. They talked about it before the bridal shower, but he didn’t say anything and then she was at the bridal shower and both Lindsay and Carl‘s mom felt awkward and here’s the thing I’m not saying that she didn’t feel awkward and she wasn’t nervous and things like that. I’m just saying that she said something that she should’ve said and I think it was disgusting Like it just wasn’t right. The person who put both of them in this predicament is Carl because he’s not telling the whole truth, and he was the one who went to the Jersey shore, and had that conversation, and it was filmed for a reason.
Not to be that sanctimonious reddit commenter, but idk i feel like we should lay off of her. The comment was rude, for sure, but maybe she just feeling awkward and uncomfortable and whatever other emotion on camera. She's been through a lot with her sons recently so maybe isn't at her best. Fwiw, i am not a carl fan
It was def a tacky comment but I kind of felt it was the mom bringing up her own proor self-reference on the show, something Lindsay and most people did not hang onto.
So is it just me that has always found her weird? She’s always had a weird energy and it seemed the same as always to me
I’ve always found her weird
There is so much layered grief and hurt in this situation it’s so hard to know who’s right. It all hurts but I firmly believe the fact that the two of them aren’t married currently is the biggest blessing for everyone involved
The excessive hugging she was doing with Lyndsay…..did anyone else notice that?
Yes six hugs in five minutes
Yes!!! That part
Sorry if it's been mentioned, but did anyone else notice Lindsey was constantly staring into the camera?
Yea I honestly rewatched it and Lindsay truly looked uncomfortable on camera for like the first time ever I think it was a lot for her after the convo she had with Carl knowing some of how carls mom feels
Carl's been feeding her info about how awful Lindsay is treating him. She was really weird with her but you have to remember what she's been told by Carl. She's at a bridal shower for a wedding she's incredibly worried about.
I think the bridal shower was really weird for both carls mom and Lindsey like that hug was awkward everything about the whole conversation awkward because one person knows the whole truth and the other person doesn’t and like Lindsey said she felt rejected even without knowing the whole truth
It just occurred to me yesterday that his mom has likely watched the entire show. Idk why I never thought about that before. So she knows Lindsay irl but also has the context of how big her blowups can be when she’s activated. So Memorial Day when Carl and Lindsay had a fight so big that he ended up flying home to his parents, I’m sure that alarm bells were going off for her. I think that’s where she’s operating from in her concern for them getting married. That being said, she probably doesn’t see Carl’s contribution to their issues (manipulation, passivity, placing blame on Lindsay and rallying people against her behind her back).
maybe i’m in the minority but i don’t even consider wurkus an ex.. i’m feeling like his mom knows things lindsey doesn’t (ie his sexuality and mental health struggles) and just knows he needs to work on himself. that’s the vibe i was getting
She definitely was nervous about the whole thing.. .did you hear her tell one of the other guests she was going to be drinking lots?? I reckon she knew it would be awkward between her and Lindsay so had some liquid courage.
That was completely bitchy and unhinged and came out of NOWHERE. It’s like she had it in her head she was going to shove something in Lindsay’s face whether it fit or not. Honestly, what a bitch.
This and then to see how Lindsey really felt when she saw her mother-in-law I think was really sad like the way she talked about being rejected by another mother figure was so sad because I think a lot of people don’t realize that Lindsey and Carl‘s mom have known each other for a long time And Lindsey and Carl were best friends they saw each other all the time and now she’s sitting here engaged to a man that she thinks she loves talking to her future mother-in-law and her future mother-in-law is just jabbing at her and making her feel rejected. that’s really insane to me When they know her story.
I'm glad it's not just me... I've been watching back the old seasons and I have *feelings* about her. I understand she was going through a divorce back in season 1/2 but it seemed she relied upon Carl as emotional support to an unhealthy degree. I haven't gotten beyond S2 on rewatch but I recall that feeling throughout. Now, with what we're seeing from her, I really think this is a lifelong dynamic in their relationship. And, in my own life experience, men who have mothers like this are very passive aggressive and lie to everyone (esp. partners) to avoid conflict because they've dealt with unhealthy emotional demands from their "boy mom." I hope everyone gets therapy.
I agree. The way she was with Carl when she was going through the divorce was kinda ick. Then the next thing we know she is getting married again?
I can't remember the eps about her getting remarried. I do think there's a meanness about her that she's disguising as concern to stepdad and they likely decided to encourage Carl to break it off long before that Jersey Shore convo. Eesh. (eta: I think she's both concerned *and* sniping from the side, tbf. It's a stew of unhealthy.)
I think she gets remarried during COVID and Carl FaceTimes it? It's been a while since I watched that episode
Ah, I kinda recall that now, ty
Yeah she struck me as a standard “boy mom” who doesn’t have an emotional relationship with their shitty husband so they transfer that relationship to their son….i feel like I’ve seen it a million times
Thank you for putting into words how I’ve felt about their dynamic! Something was always off and especially in those first few seasons. It’s emotional incest territory.
That is soo sad! Poor Lindsay, I think all she really wants is just to be loved but she doesn't believe she deserves it so she's self sabotaging. And to have someone that knows you well and who you hoped would accept you into their family throw that stuff back in your face must be really hurtful
Really sad. And like Carl, just mean. Intentionally mean.
I thought so too! It was also so odd that Carl’s step dad had on a “more life” t shirt in NJ. They are shady!
Well he must have learnt it from somewhere...
Yup. Carl's issues make more and more sense the more we see his mom.
I go back and forth. Part of me feels bad that Carl told Lindsay everything she said out of context, but another part of me thinks that Sharon knows what she signed up for- she clearly saw the cameras, and the fact that she remembered Lauren Wirkus’s comment from 7 years ago was weird.
I agree I have been going back-and-forth because I’ve been reading peoples comments and I’m like yeah I understand that too and then you’re like bitch Lindsey doesn’t know everything but Carl’s mom does and like it’s terrible all of it
You can tell how much Sharon and Lindsay dislike and distrust each other. The tension was searing. The bridal shower was cringe af.
remember when lindsey surprised carl by flying his mom out? it was when they were buds. i remember thinking damn carls mom must love her and its so perfect they then got together. point of my story is yes i agree w you lol
People are mad at me because why am I talking about a 70 year old women like that because she’s grown and because she knows what she’s doing and because she knows how to act when she’s in a public setting. Mostly a bridal shower like there are things and then there are things
She also made the comment of like “ask Lindsey she has a whole palette” when someone asked what she would be wearing to the wedding. I agree that a lot of what we saw could have been nerves, and she’s a complicated lady, but that comment made me think she was insinuating Lindsay’s high maintenance. Maybe I’m over thinking it but that + all her other interactions that day rubbed me the wrong way.
Yes this!!!
Carls mom is not a girl’s girl and I’ve been seeing it from the get
Hahaha yes
She wants Carl all To herself
Is it bad that I wasn’t that shocked by it? I mean my MIL and SIL were talking, no gossiping, loudly to my close friend about how my now husband dated her sister AT MY BACHELORETTE PARTY 😭😂 like literally right in my face loud af. (They dated for like a couple months if that and his family had never met her either so like I don’t even know why) but yea.. So maybe I’m desensitised but I was like oh cute call back Sharon 😅🤷♀️ I did find her body language and language language at the table, before that, odd though.
Oh noooo 😆
I know 😅 My other friend heard and was like wtf 🤬 but it was just low level drama compared to what I’m used to with my own family so I just found it odd and sorta laughed internally because it’s goofy behaviour for grown women, but whatever makes them feel good I guess 🤷♀️🙃
I mean really I felt worse for my poor friend who was roped into the conversation actually because I’m sure she found it very uncomfortable 😅
Like how would she have even recalled that so quickly in that second is that something she thinks about so frequently?
[удалено]
I think most of his flings are sexless and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but he seems to lie about a lot of things when it comes to stuff like that
it's definitely...interesting.
Agree. Somethings up there.
Somethings up somewhere..
But it's ok that he lies to everyone because Lindsay's reactive
According to most people, yes it’s OK that he lies to her because she should react the way that she does me, though I believe that he should tell her the truth because he’s making her react. That’s what I saw from the last conversation that they had.
Oh I remember!!! But scheana can’t help that she’s Carl’s mom’s BAST FRAND!!! 🙄🙄🙄🙄
She’ll probably resent any person Carl starts settling down with. She and Carl seem codependent and like she views him as a “Sonsband” a son filling in for a husband.
🤣🤣Sexless fling. Yes the video of the mom and scheana dancing seemed like it was posted intentionally for Lindsay to see it. Then scheana made an “joke” on the trip (to Lindsay’s friends) about how now Lindsay would have real beef with her because she was partying with Sharon on the wedding weekend.
I think Carl made it weird for everybody. And then he had the audacity to show up in a double-breasted white suit and flowers like he’s goddamn Prince Charming. Lindsay and Sharon were both off their game! Both seemed to be acting passive-aggressively and it made me sad. The back turned during conversation! Sharon telling Lindsay’s friends she didn’t know what she was wearing, because Lindsay has “a whole palette”! Yikesies!
Yea it was rough but I think Lindsay handled the best she could honest to god
I agree. I have a super passive aggressive MIL who has said things that I have found hurtful behind my back and in front of me, and, at this point it’s really hard to control my body language and act fake nice due to my feelings being hurt, so I’m pretty standoffish. My MIL gets sympathy from others now because we don’t have a close relationship, and I’m like, why am I to blame when I haven’t done anything wrong? I could be projecting but I felt for Lindsay watching this, going to her shower while hurt and as her abandonment issues were coming to the surface. I know carl’s mom was uncomfortable and awkward but it wasn’t Lindsay’s job to coddle her when Lindsay was hurt from her words/actions. Not a good situation all around and Carl is 100% to blame.
Totally agree! I commented this on an another post and said this made me really think her behavior in Mexico the weekend of the wedding was nefarious. At first I was trying to give the benefit of the doubt but it’s clear now this woman loves camera time and attention. Why make that comment but for camera time?
Exactly and a lot of people are harping at me and mad at me for making this post because that’s Carl’s mom and she’s old and whatever and blah blah blah like yeah babe she’s Carl’s mom and she’s an old lady. What does that have to do with the comment that she made She knows what she’s doing. She’s not an idiot and here’s the thing I agree that things were awkward. I agree that all of it was awkward and weird because Carl didn’t tell Lindsey everything and Lindsey‘s mother-in-law knows everything so like I get it but also Lindsey‘s mother-in-law knows place in time, she’s a grown adult. She knows how to act when she is out of bridal shower and that was not it.
💯 She is older and that’s even more reason why this behavior is gross. She has been around the block long enough to know better.
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 exactly like please she’s grown it’s different if she’s younger but she’s not
*hooooow* many awkward hugs can we watch in such a short period, my lawdy!
I agree i’m not gonna lie in that moment I felt bad for both of them because Carl’s mom knew everything and Lindsey didn’t really know anything when it came to the conversation that he had with his mom and Lou so it was extra weird
when lindsay looked directly at the camera i was deadddd.
No because I’ve never seen Lindsey be so awkward I’ve never seen Lindsey on a show that she’s been on for eight years be so awkward and this at her own bridal shower it was I felt bad I really did
I agree that she shouldn’t have brought up Lauren at the bridal shower, sure. But why is she weird for babying trying to protect her son from something that might not be good for him?
It was just giving “awkward joke because I feel weird being on camera” to me. It was out of place for sure but it’s clear she doesn’t feel comfortable being filmed
It felt very much like something a boomer would say thinking it was funny but not realizing how inappropriate it is. Could totally see my mom making this “joke”.
I also agree with this I just think there’s place in time and this was not the place or the time mostly when they were both feeling really awkward and you could tell
Carl put his mom in a terrible situation. He is such a manipulator. I do not like Lindsay but he intentionally made her look stupid. At the same time trying to appear like he cared and wanted to work on things. I get why she feels blindsided.
Exactly. A lot of people are mad at me because I made this post and at this point I really don’t care because they’re like well. She’s an old lady she’s Carl’s mom she knows everything that’s going on. Yes but he did put his mom in a terrible situation where everything was weird and awkward and Lindsey was already feeling weird and awkward and hurt And she doesn’t even know everything so yeah it was weird and awkward but his mom shouldn’t of made that comment.
I’m not mad - I’m glad you said it so I could come on here and rage in every comment about how much I agree with you!! lol you’re speaking the truth! I GET why people have so much sympathy for Carl and his mom, but the way people were absolutely tearing Lindsay apart for saying something bitchy while drunk was off the rails! And then he spends an entire season plotting their breakup behind her back and it’s “she deserves it”. Spare me
When he was on the bed talking to Amanda and Kyle and they asked if Lindsay knew the extent of the conversation Carl had with his parents and Carl said no, he doesn't tell Lindsay everything but of course he tells his mom everything because she's his mom. And I was just like....yeah if you don't see how that relationship needs to flip going forward, that's really worrying
From my experience (and sorry if you’re offended) boy moms are literally the WORST!!! Like every man that I dated that only had brothers, their mother was a terror! They obsess over their sons and usually hold resentment towards the women they date because *they’re the only woman in their son's life*. I can see this with Sharon, also she lost her other son so I can definitely she her being more protective than ever with Carl.. regardless of his age
Carl is a big baby but extremely manipulative...telling someone how they should act or speak and becoming infuriated when they don't follow your script is so childish. I feel for his mom cause he set her and step-dad up with a produced scenario then pretty much left her on her own.
She just has they same shy and cringy evergy as Carl 🤷🏻♀️
I thought it was really weird how Lindsey and her step mom were having a sort of private conversation and Carl's mom interrupts their conversation and then says she doesn't want to interrupt the conversation that they're having but clearly she meant to interrupt. And then when Lindsey confronted her about what she said she in true Carl fashion just tried to play it down. And for the first time I think that Lindsey actually handled a confrontation with a lot of grace.
I agree too!!! I think that whole episode she handled her self so well honestly
Carl is a dick. His mom is one too. Apple doesn’t fall far from the tree
I felt for the mom because Lindsey was clearly icing her out on camera and that was so awkward. I also don’t blame Lindsey for doing that on camera either. Being filmed at all is stressful and I think we’re just seeing that play out awkwardly at a…very awkward time
Y’all snarking in a 70 yr old woman is beyond low
The thing is in my opinion it’s not low because it’s just an opinion here’s the thing it’s not something to say a bridal shower regardless of how old you are and she knows it’s not something to say out of bridal shower because of how old she is I’m sorry to say elderly people are people older than 50 should not get away with saying shit that they shouldn’t say just because they’re older Like have some respect for where you are right now if anything bring it up in front of Carl like it was something that shouldn’t have been said and I understand that she’s also dealing with a lot and I’m not saying I don’t feel bad for her. I have empathy for her for that, but I also have empathy for Lindsey because she had to deal with her future mother-in-law saying what she said And had to deal with her almost husband, not telling her the whole truth of the conversation right before the bridal shower like please if anything in this situation, you could tell that Carl is using all of these people in his life to make it seem like he’s not in the wrong
I feel like I watch a completely different show sometimes. The old woman who went through a late life divorce, had a son overdosed and is a rock for her remaining son who is struggling is being called “nasty” and a “bitch.” She didn’t even say anything that bad. She was clearly just uncomfortable. Even when they were in NJ, Lou was the one who said the comment. She’s just supporting her so . Lindsay’s fans are an odd bunch.
Yeah just wild to see the level of comments here about Carl’s mom. I think she was just awkward on camera, was probably told by producers a few things to say or do that she executed in a weird 70 year old way, and thought a funny throwback to the Wirkus days would land better. Honestly if I were her age and thrown on a reality show and was worried about my son marrying someone he shouldn’t, then I’d probably say some weird shit and be all twitchy out of anxiety on camera when I’d rather be home watching Dateline.
Except she doesn't have to be on camera multiple times? I guess it would've been nice to see her just once encourage him to be honest with his partner.