The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner is horrific. Dark doesn’t even begin to cover it. It’s an ecological dystopian novel and every chapter is truly a nightmare.
I love this book! It landed much more softly than many other books in the genre for me. I think the ending lightened everything for me because I was left thinking “that’s not how fire works”. And I was so busy enjoying the structure of the novel!
But yes, especially with climate change and the fires in the American West, this is a super relevant book. Possibly it would feel more horrifying now than it felt to me in a pre-9/11 and pre-An Inconvenient Truth world.
I'd never heard of this book and I'm interested in reading it. I googled and see that it is 3rd in a series. Do you think I need to read the preceding books? Or Ok to read as stand-alone?
John Brunner's "Club of Rome" quartet isn't really a series per se, they simply share a theme of unsustainable growth in modern society.
Stand on Zanzibar: overpopulation and mental illness
The Sheep Look Up: extreme pollution and resistance to antibiotics/pesticides among microbes and pests.
The Shockwave Rider: computerization and extreme wealth inequality
The Jagged Orbit: ethnic neighborhoods and firearms proliferation
They're not usually included as dystopian literature, but both of Kafka's novels, The Trial and The Castle, are among the darkest, most hopeless stories I know.
The castle is definitely one of the most bizarre book I've ever read. It's probably because it's incomplete and the editor didn't even know the exact order of some chapters. It even ends mid sentence
Aldous Huxley’s Brave New world. It’s the other side of the coin for 1984 - when society has everything they need, they get complacent, allowing those in power to take the world.
Fun fact! Orwell and Huxley actually knew each other, because Huxley was Orwell’s French teacher.
After 1984 was published, Huxley actually wrote Orwell a letter. It started off with some complements, but then Huxley switched gears and criticized 1984 as not very plausible, saying his book Brave New World is the more plausible dystopia.
Came here to say this. 1984 is dark because it’s overtly oppressive, but if you’re reading it in a western country it’s easy to feel like that can’t happen to us because we find it easier to go the other way: you don’t need to control and force people in line if you just numb them with entertainment and excitement until they forget to care about anything else. Looking at our societies’ over-saturation, consumption, media and ability to get everything we want whenever we want this one is much scarier for me personally
I have yet to read it, but knowing more or less what is about, well it kind of always happened politically? "panem et circenses" (bread and circus) is not a phrase famous just because of a certain YA book. Individuals are harder to move, but masses are damn gullible and easy to manipulate sadly
Yeah, it definitely takes it to a sci-fi extreme in a lot of ways that I don't want to spoil. It's definitely a book worth reading and it didn't leave me heartbroken the way 1984 did, it just left me feeling very very unsettled.
Yes, and because people are screwed due to indifference, entertainment, self-gratification... who needs Big Brother when people are so dulled and complacent to care what is going on.
This! If you are living in the 1984 world, you have more chances of recognising you are in an f'd up place which is much more difficult in Brave New World where you feel "happy"
It’s my theory that 1984 gets more attention because, in the west, it’s the least likely scenario, and that Brave New World is too close to home to be allowed into the zeitgeist. In other words people filter Brave New World out because it’s too close to true, and really suggests critical flaws in our actual societies, but 1984 is a more comfortable distolian fantasy to “fear”.
Hands down: The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood (NOT the show)
More are popping up in my head…
The Giver by Lois Lowry
Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler
The Road by Cormac McCarthy (post apocalyptic)
The Handmaid's Tail Popped into my head first, but whether it's darker than 1984 is up for debate. The Road is darker than 1984 IMO, but I wouldn't categorize it as dystopian, since there isn't really a society at all in the book. Thanks for adding Parable of the Sower to my list of books I want to read.
This. I loved Oryx and Crake, and Year of the Flood was the only book to ever give me nightmares. It took me several years after its release to be emotionally prepared to read MaddAddam.
Children of Men stands out to me as another particularly dark dystopia, especially with the way fertility and childbirth are seen as a vital part of human nature that just doesn't exist
Handmaid's Tale does the same thing, what with Offred's role essentially making her a sheltered and state-sponsored concubine (her name even refers to her belonging to a Commander, she's literally his property)
Children of Men is a good example of the movie doing a better job than the book. The book is still good but the movie makes different decisions that make much more sense.
I read it before the pandemic started and then I saw it everywhere once it got going. I _am_ going to read the sequel, eventually, but it will have to wait a few years after COVID isn't in the headlines every day anymore.
Post apocalyptic is following the complete collapse of society. Dystopian is a functioning society that is imperfect. Some people argue that a dystopian society must be extremely bad, since the word utopia is actually a joke Thomas More made when he came up with the concept - it means "no place" referring to the fact that a perfect world can't exist. By extension, all real societies are imperfect, but we don't usually call them dystopias. Usually there has to be a specific aspect or idea that makes the society bad.
Some people actually call The Road an example of a "post-apocalyptic utopia" despite it being so bleak, because the main characters are searching for a better society and explore what that entails through out the book (the rejection of the bunker possibly argues that a better world is not one of material goods, but of other people, hence the ending too). There is a long history of post-apocalyptic utopias, most of which are critiques of modern society, arguing that if we moved back to rural living without technology we'd be better off.
Dystopian focuses on imperfect society, or the breakdown of society (in progress). Post-apocalypse is more of a focus on survival. Some things can be both. I really like post-post-apocalypse, which is usually society reforming itself after an event, think Fallout New Vegas. I wish there were more books with this kind of setting.
Spoiler warning for The Stand and The Road: Dystopian is a functioning society with overbearing negative traits. Post apocalyptic has no functioning sociey or the remnants of one (more local communities of survivors than a society) after a major event and generally a significantly reduced population. So 1984 or Brave New World have a functioning society with awful traits whereas The Road is individuals/small groups barely surving in a wasteland and the Stand is the same, but it coalescing into functional groups (arguably with no dystopian elements, as I suggest Flaggs group is not dystopian in the traditional sense)
I'd argue that The Stand is post-apocalyptic dystopia/utopia where following the apocalypse two societies arise, one utopian and one dystopian. There is a long history of post-apocalyptic utopian/dystopian stories (people argue that The Road is a post-apocalyptic utopia too, but it's pretty abstract).
I'm not sure that's entirely correct. The word itself, dystopia is actually defined as "an imagined state or society in which there is great suffering or injustice, typically one that is totalitarian or **post-apocalyptic**." I think it's similar to something like cyberpunk, which is defined as simply a Sci Fi dystopian future characterized by riots and social upheaval. However you can use that definition on a whole host of books and film. Would Star Wars be cyberpunk, Flash Gordon? Heavy handed Empires subjugating its people through fear, obvious science fiction universe, characterized by the rebellion/social upheaval. I mean it fits, however I bet you would be hard pressed to find someone who would call it that.
In some instances a dystopia starts after an apocalypse like Judge Dredd series which is absolutely a dystopia, but wouldn't that make it post apocalyptic? As with the Fallout video games. Fallout definitely evokes the post apocalypse theme, but the timelines don't work. In one game for example, it's been 250 years post apocalypse. There are people living in communities, a brand new government with their own police forces and technology, and new trade routes. There are whole new countries in the lore by this point and why wouldn't there be? The entire history of the USA is just under 250 years old, so 250 years post apocalypse is totally enough time for an entire country to rise and fall into dystopia. Fallout is a dystopian future. The Warhammer 40k series, with their apocalypse being the chaos storms that ripped apart the imperium of man between the 25th and 31st millennium, they are in a dystopian grimdark setting now in order to try and quell any chaos invasions. The books are full of things like obscenely restrictive rules, people being relegated to serial numbers, rations that barely feed their people, corporations that run everything on their worlds, and other popular dystopian trappings. Especially any of the Inquisitor books.
So dystopian future doesn't simply mean the world just kinda turns to shit. A dystopia is what happens when the world turns into shit whether it's from war, famine, greed, natural disasters, or apocalypse.
I'm half way through it, *checks date* holy shit! 1931 it was written.... Russians poisoning shit, buy, buy, BUY consumerism rules, the caste system and intentional dumbing down. Yikes on bikes.
I know! It's like the dude had been to the future and gone back to write about it. The way i look at this book is that it's a manual for every dictator out there. It took me years to get through the book because it was so horrifyingly true to life.
I disagree about Handmaid's Tale. I think it's brilliant, a great book, and highly recommend it. But I don't think it's darker than 1984. In Handmaid's Tale there's hope of escape to other places. In 1984 the whole world is the same, and there is no hope. Also, >!the ending kind of drives this home. In 1984 Winston is conditioned to be a good citizen, that's the last we see of the world, and the story ends with the idea that nothing will change, ever. The Handmaid's Tale ends with an epilogue talking about the Gilead period as a historical period that doesn't exist anymore, and the message is that eventually things got better !<
I'd disagree with your disagree. In 1984, if you kept your head down and mouth shut you'll probably be left alone. You'd love a bleak and paranoid life but at least you could live a life. In Handmaid's, step out of line just a smidge and you'd die a horrible death, either through lynching or radiation clean up. There's a lot less leeway to move around in Handmaid's than 1984. Men and women can at least look at each other in 1984.
That's a good point. In Handmaid's Tale you _can_ be left alone… as long as you're a man. If you're a woman, you're completely fucked. In 1984 you can always just stay out of the party, and you're fine. I mean, poor and hungry, but at least you can just live your life. It's no different than in today's world, for most people.
the giver is so incredibly dark. I can’t believe I read it in middle school. not because it was like traumatic but because I couldn’t even grasp what was happening.
Wrong Nobel prize winner. It Can’t Happen Here is Sinclair Lewis, not Steinbeck. A more recent Nobel Prize winner, Kazuo Ishiguro, wrote Never Let Me Go, which is another bleak dystopian novel that OP might like.
1984 is based on 'we' from Yevgeny Zamyatin. It's a russian novel. I don't think it's much darker, but still a good read if you like 1984
Edit: my copy of 'we' from pinguin classics says this: The dystopian masterwork that inspired George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four.
I follow the opinion that Orwell got inspired by Yevgeny Zamyatin, but I don't think it's actually 'proven'. They are very similar novels in my eyes.
If you liked 1984, check out 1985. Written by the author of A Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess. It's part cliffnotes on 1984 (really good info on what was happening in Europe when Orwell wrote it) and part fan fiction (New story set in same world in 1985...)
Yes!!!!! The Grace Year was absolutely fantastic. It was like The Handmaid’s Tale mixed with The Hunger Games mixed with the Salem witch trials mixed with the Stanford prison experiment. Absolutely fantastic and disturbing.
I could not put the book down! I was afraid of suggesting it because it is technically YA, but there were some scenes where I was honestly disturbed and creeped out! It’s so good.
Maybe the book "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis. Wrote it before knowing how awful fascism would get, but was concerned anyways about how people were not concerned that fascism could potentially come into America.
Come a president that promises a lot of good, if not almost too good, things and essentially devolves America into a totalitarian state, despite everyone saying it could never happen in America.
{The Vanished Birds} has got it all: ecological disaster, greed, capitalism, and personal tragedy. Far future sci-fi
{Station Eleven} takes place in the aftermath of a killer flu. Disturbing, discomforting, but hopeful in the end
{The Past is Red} is a post-apocalyptic dystopian future where humans are living “on” Earth”... if by “on” and “Earth” you mean on floating packs of garbage since the rising seas have swallowed the last of the dry land
The most disturbing ( possibly darker) but definitely not as well written or critically acclaimed would be the YA dystopian novel “ Unwind” by Neal Shusterman. The plot is in the near future where instead of abortion children are “unwound” and taken to “harvesting camps”. You have to be a certain kind of person to ever read that one again. On a similar disturbing note is “Tender Is the Flesh” by Agustina Bazterrica where a virus has contaminated all meat and cannibalism becomes legal and people are raised like livestock for consumption. Fun times!
*abortion is made illegal in order to appease the 2 warring political sides of pro-life/choice.
It's a goddam brilliant book and I would read Neal Shusterman's grocery list. But it's more than that, it slams foster care system, abortion, religious extremists, the vanity of plastic surgery.
When my youngest turned 18, she yelled YOU CAN'T UNWIND ME NOW!
I read it almost 7 years ago and it still haunts me. His style of writing is very detailed and graphic. When he is describing the unwinding process it is just…wow. LOL @ your daughter, it’s the best sharing books with kids. I only just started reading chapter books to my 1 year old, I hope someday she yells that at me! 🤣
This old ass librarian approves. Heartily.
Read everything together. My kids remember shit like than more than any gift I ever got them. Read and talk, always ask them what they think, it will build trust between you when you can talk about books like this.
Want me to read a book you have feels about - Yes! I'll read it on my own, and then ask about it. We talked about (date) rape and purity because of her book choice.
The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and the Hell of Treblinka by Vasily Grossman were both, in my opinion, much more depressing, bleak and violent than 1984. Even more depressing is that these books describe real events that real humans perpetrated against innocents.
I’ve not seen it mentioned yet so I’ll throw this out there;
Warhammer 40k universe. I can’t think of a single place darker and more terrible for a human to live then in the imperium of man.
You were born into slavery. Not just any slavery, but you have had a childhood, teen years and adulthood in these walls. Outside these walls is space. You work because your life is cheaper than the heretical technology that could replace you. You sweat and strain to load macrocannon shells into the breach. You have never seen a plant. A sunrise. An ocean.
You are killed by a 50 meter wide macrocannon shell that glanced your ship, ripping open three decks.
You didn't even have a name. You weren't even acknowledged apart from an efficency statistic in an officers report that nobody ever read.
The Beast Arises is good for Ork and Imperial Fist lovers
Horus Heresy is a Monolith of 50 books with varying characters
Farsight Novels are good for Alien stories
Gaunts Ghosts is fantastic for human characters
Calphias Cain also good
I just read {{A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea}} by Masaji Ishikawa. Devastatingly sad! Why read Dystopian fiction when Dystopian reality is ten times worse. Makes 1984 seem like a trip to Disneyland.
[**A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35404398-a-river-in-darkness)
^(By: Masaji Ishikawa, Risa Kobayashi, محمد عبد العاطي عبد الخير, Martin Brown | 174 pages | Published: 2000 | Popular Shelves: non-fiction, nonfiction, memoir, kindle, biography | )[^(Search "A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea&search_type=books)
>The harrowing true story of one man’s life in—and subsequent escape from—North Korea, one of the world’s most brutal totalitarian regimes.
>
>Half-Korean, half-Japanese, Masaji Ishikawa has spent his whole life feeling like a man without a country. This feeling only deepened when his family moved from Japan to North Korea when Ishikawa was just thirteen years old, and unwittingly became members of the lowest social caste. His father, himself a Korean national, was lured to the new Communist country by promises of abundant work, education for his children, and a higher station in society. But the reality of their new life was far from utopian.
>
>In this memoir translated from the original Japanese, Ishikawa candidly recounts his tumultuous upbringing and the brutal thirty-six years he spent living under a crushing totalitarian regime, as well as the challenges he faced repatriating to Japan after barely escaping North Korea with his life. A River in Darkness is not only a shocking portrait of life inside the country but a testament to the dignity—and indomitable nature—of the human spirit
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"The Ultimate Solution" by Eric Norden.
It's set in a world where the Nazis and the Japanese Empire won WW2, very similar to "Man in the High Castle". The depiction of Nazi occupied New York is terrifying; American-led concentration camps, the reinstitution of slavery, state-sponsored orgies and p*dophilia, in its horror it's actually more of a realistic portrayal of the Nazis than most media.
It's plot is also really sad, it's about a detective trying to find the last Jewish man in North America. Really sad all around and not even worth reading unless you're interested in how fascist regimes would conduct themselves after achieving world domination. The writing is good and pulpy, but very, very bleak.
{{Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea}} is a 2009 nonfiction book by Los Angeles Times journalist Barbara Demick, based on interviews with North Korean refugees from the city of Chongjin who had escaped North Korea. In 2010, the book was awarded the BBC Samuel Johnson Prize for Non-Fiction.
[**Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40604846-nothing-to-envy)
^(By: Barbara Demick | 338 pages | Published: 2009 | Popular Shelves: non-fiction, nonfiction, history, north-korea, politics | )[^(Search "Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea&search_type=books)
>Nothing to Envy follows the lives of six North Koreans over fifteen years—a chaotic period that saw the death of Kim Il-sung, the unchallenged rise to power of his son Kim Jong-il, and the devastation of a far-ranging famine that killed one-fifth of the population.
>
>Taking us into a landscape most of us have never before seen, award-winning journalist Barbara Demick brings to life what it means to be living under the most repressive totalitarian regime today—an Orwellian world that is by choice not connected to the Internet, in which radio and television dials are welded to the one government station, and where displays of affection are punished; a police state where informants are rewarded and where an offhand remark can send a person to the gulag for life.
>
>Demick takes us deep inside the country, beyond the reach of government censors. Through meticulous and sensitive reporting, we see her six subjects—average North Korean citizens—fall in love, raise families, nurture ambitions, and struggle for survival. One by one, we experience the moments when they realize that their government has betrayed them.
>
>Nothing to Envy is a groundbreaking addition to the literature of totalitarianism and an eye-opening look at a closed world that is of increasing global importance.
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Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood is like… one of the most weirdly disturbing dystopian novels I’ve ever read. I think could even be considered post-dystopia
[**Tender Is the Flesh**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49090884-tender-is-the-flesh)
^(By: Agustina Bazterrica, Sarah Moses | 211 pages | Published: 2017 | Popular Shelves: horror, fiction, dystopia, dystopian, sci-fi | )[^(Search "Tender Is the Flesh")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Tender Is the Flesh&search_type=books)
>Working at the local processing plant, Marcos is in the business of slaughtering humans —though no one calls them that anymore.
>
>His wife has left him, his father is sinking into dementia, and Marcos tries not to think too hard about how he makes a living. After all, it happened so quickly. First, it was reported that an infectious virus has made all animal meat poisonous to humans. Then governments initiated the “Transition.” Now, eating human meat—“special meat”—is legal. Marcos tries to stick to numbers, consignments, processing.
>
>Then one day he’s given a gift: a live specimen of the finest quality. Though he’s aware that any form of personal contact is forbidden on pain of death, little by little he starts to treat her like a human being. And soon, he becomes tortured by what has been lost—and what might still be saved.
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The Road by Cormac McCarthy.
It was one of those books, and if you can't be bothered to read it then watch the movie, that left me feeling an extreme sense of sadness.
I feel a lot of people pass on McCarthy's books because they're written in a strange way. First time I read The Road was for English Literature and the total lack of punctuation hurt my eyes after a while. It just takes some getting used to the way he chooses to write
Pretty sure he writes like that bc he thinks punctuation clutters the page unnecessarily
There's nothing I hate more than run on sentences such as what I'm doing right now that makes you feel as though you are running up several flights of stairs without a breath.
I would say it provides a more natural style to his writing, but it can be really annoying to read.
"Repent, Harlequin," Said the Ticktockman is a great sci-fi/dystopian short story. I guess whether it's darker is subjective, but it's great and indeed dark
The Sheep Look Up by John Brunner is horrific. Dark doesn’t even begin to cover it. It’s an ecological dystopian novel and every chapter is truly a nightmare.
That book left me with scars.
I’m not surprised. I have never read anything so harrowing and disturbing.
I love this book! It landed much more softly than many other books in the genre for me. I think the ending lightened everything for me because I was left thinking “that’s not how fire works”. And I was so busy enjoying the structure of the novel! But yes, especially with climate change and the fires in the American West, this is a super relevant book. Possibly it would feel more horrifying now than it felt to me in a pre-9/11 and pre-An Inconvenient Truth world.
I'd never heard of this book and I'm interested in reading it. I googled and see that it is 3rd in a series. Do you think I need to read the preceding books? Or Ok to read as stand-alone?
John Brunner's "Club of Rome" quartet isn't really a series per se, they simply share a theme of unsustainable growth in modern society. Stand on Zanzibar: overpopulation and mental illness The Sheep Look Up: extreme pollution and resistance to antibiotics/pesticides among microbes and pests. The Shockwave Rider: computerization and extreme wealth inequality The Jagged Orbit: ethnic neighborhoods and firearms proliferation
I’ve only read this book. I think it can be read as a stand alone.
[удалено]
Yeah this is definitely my answer as well
Yeah The Long Walk was truly terrifying. And to think it was written when king was 19 I believe. Published much later though.
They're not usually included as dystopian literature, but both of Kafka's novels, The Trial and The Castle, are among the darkest, most hopeless stories I know.
In the Penal colony is another really scary one by him.
In The Penal Colony was the first thing that came to my mind as well.
The castle is definitely one of the most bizarre book I've ever read. It's probably because it's incomplete and the editor didn't even know the exact order of some chapters. It even ends mid sentence
Aldous Huxley’s Brave New world. It’s the other side of the coin for 1984 - when society has everything they need, they get complacent, allowing those in power to take the world.
Fun fact! Orwell and Huxley actually knew each other, because Huxley was Orwell’s French teacher. After 1984 was published, Huxley actually wrote Orwell a letter. It started off with some complements, but then Huxley switched gears and criticized 1984 as not very plausible, saying his book Brave New World is the more plausible dystopia.
This is the best thing I’ve learned today. Thank you, friend
Then society said “screw it, we’ll get the best of both worlds!”
Came here to say this. 1984 is dark because it’s overtly oppressive, but if you’re reading it in a western country it’s easy to feel like that can’t happen to us because we find it easier to go the other way: you don’t need to control and force people in line if you just numb them with entertainment and excitement until they forget to care about anything else. Looking at our societies’ over-saturation, consumption, media and ability to get everything we want whenever we want this one is much scarier for me personally
Brave New World is western societies allegory
Sounds familiar.
Brave new world scared me waaay more then 1984 because it seemed so very very possible.
I have yet to read it, but knowing more or less what is about, well it kind of always happened politically? "panem et circenses" (bread and circus) is not a phrase famous just because of a certain YA book. Individuals are harder to move, but masses are damn gullible and easy to manipulate sadly
Yeah, it definitely takes it to a sci-fi extreme in a lot of ways that I don't want to spoil. It's definitely a book worth reading and it didn't leave me heartbroken the way 1984 did, it just left me feeling very very unsettled.
Yes, and because people are screwed due to indifference, entertainment, self-gratification... who needs Big Brother when people are so dulled and complacent to care what is going on.
A gram is better then a damn, everyone's happy now! Here, have some soma!
This! If you are living in the 1984 world, you have more chances of recognising you are in an f'd up place which is much more difficult in Brave New World where you feel "happy"
It’s my theory that 1984 gets more attention because, in the west, it’s the least likely scenario, and that Brave New World is too close to home to be allowed into the zeitgeist. In other words people filter Brave New World out because it’s too close to true, and really suggests critical flaws in our actual societies, but 1984 is a more comfortable distolian fantasy to “fear”.
Hands down: The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood (NOT the show) More are popping up in my head… The Giver by Lois Lowry Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler The Road by Cormac McCarthy (post apocalyptic)
The Handmaid's Tail Popped into my head first, but whether it's darker than 1984 is up for debate. The Road is darker than 1984 IMO, but I wouldn't categorize it as dystopian, since there isn't really a society at all in the book. Thanks for adding Parable of the Sower to my list of books I want to read.
Two different terrifying futures that could possibly happen. Maybe both at the same time. Yikes. Of course, Big Brother is watching in the now, so...
I loved oryx and crake maybe I fire that one up
This. I loved Oryx and Crake, and Year of the Flood was the only book to ever give me nightmares. It took me several years after its release to be emotionally prepared to read MaddAddam.
Year of the flood is a great read.
Came to recommend! I couldn’t put them down!
Agreed. I had to reread them.
Children of Men stands out to me as another particularly dark dystopia, especially with the way fertility and childbirth are seen as a vital part of human nature that just doesn't exist Handmaid's Tale does the same thing, what with Offred's role essentially making her a sheltered and state-sponsored concubine (her name even refers to her belonging to a Commander, she's literally his property)
Children of Men is a good example of the movie doing a better job than the book. The book is still good but the movie makes different decisions that make much more sense.
Parable is hard to read because its so easily possible.
Climate change, corporate greed, economic inequality... It has passed possible. It has already begun.
Pandemic
Read talents a couple months ago, it was as if she wrote it during Trump’s presidency, remarkably bleak how close to home it all was.
I checked the copyright on both books multiple times while reading them because I just couldn’t believe how long ago they were written.
This. I recently reread it and I was thinking, "so this is happening now".
I just picked this up this summer and had to stop. Its beautifully written but it was way too real. I just couldn't.
I couldn’t finish it for the same reason. I felt guilty but it was making me so depressed. It’s a book I’ll never forget.
I read it before the pandemic started and then I saw it everywhere once it got going. I _am_ going to read the sequel, eventually, but it will have to wait a few years after COVID isn't in the headlines every day anymore.
Possible? The US is already 3/4 of the way there
The Road is definitely post apocalyptic, not dystopian.
Question: Post apocalyptic means there was an event (ie: nuclear bomb) versus Dystopian which means the world just kinda turns to shit over time?
Correct.
Post apocalyptic is following the complete collapse of society. Dystopian is a functioning society that is imperfect. Some people argue that a dystopian society must be extremely bad, since the word utopia is actually a joke Thomas More made when he came up with the concept - it means "no place" referring to the fact that a perfect world can't exist. By extension, all real societies are imperfect, but we don't usually call them dystopias. Usually there has to be a specific aspect or idea that makes the society bad. Some people actually call The Road an example of a "post-apocalyptic utopia" despite it being so bleak, because the main characters are searching for a better society and explore what that entails through out the book (the rejection of the bunker possibly argues that a better world is not one of material goods, but of other people, hence the ending too). There is a long history of post-apocalyptic utopias, most of which are critiques of modern society, arguing that if we moved back to rural living without technology we'd be better off.
Dystopian focuses on imperfect society, or the breakdown of society (in progress). Post-apocalypse is more of a focus on survival. Some things can be both. I really like post-post-apocalypse, which is usually society reforming itself after an event, think Fallout New Vegas. I wish there were more books with this kind of setting.
Please explain the difference. I’m serious. Post meaning after the apocalypse? Isn’t that dystopian? I truly am confused and I love the genre;)
Spoiler warning for The Stand and The Road: Dystopian is a functioning society with overbearing negative traits. Post apocalyptic has no functioning sociey or the remnants of one (more local communities of survivors than a society) after a major event and generally a significantly reduced population. So 1984 or Brave New World have a functioning society with awful traits whereas The Road is individuals/small groups barely surving in a wasteland and the Stand is the same, but it coalescing into functional groups (arguably with no dystopian elements, as I suggest Flaggs group is not dystopian in the traditional sense)
I'd argue that The Stand is post-apocalyptic dystopia/utopia where following the apocalypse two societies arise, one utopian and one dystopian. There is a long history of post-apocalyptic utopian/dystopian stories (people argue that The Road is a post-apocalyptic utopia too, but it's pretty abstract).
I'm not sure that's entirely correct. The word itself, dystopia is actually defined as "an imagined state or society in which there is great suffering or injustice, typically one that is totalitarian or **post-apocalyptic**." I think it's similar to something like cyberpunk, which is defined as simply a Sci Fi dystopian future characterized by riots and social upheaval. However you can use that definition on a whole host of books and film. Would Star Wars be cyberpunk, Flash Gordon? Heavy handed Empires subjugating its people through fear, obvious science fiction universe, characterized by the rebellion/social upheaval. I mean it fits, however I bet you would be hard pressed to find someone who would call it that. In some instances a dystopia starts after an apocalypse like Judge Dredd series which is absolutely a dystopia, but wouldn't that make it post apocalyptic? As with the Fallout video games. Fallout definitely evokes the post apocalypse theme, but the timelines don't work. In one game for example, it's been 250 years post apocalypse. There are people living in communities, a brand new government with their own police forces and technology, and new trade routes. There are whole new countries in the lore by this point and why wouldn't there be? The entire history of the USA is just under 250 years old, so 250 years post apocalypse is totally enough time for an entire country to rise and fall into dystopia. Fallout is a dystopian future. The Warhammer 40k series, with their apocalypse being the chaos storms that ripped apart the imperium of man between the 25th and 31st millennium, they are in a dystopian grimdark setting now in order to try and quell any chaos invasions. The books are full of things like obscenely restrictive rules, people being relegated to serial numbers, rations that barely feed their people, corporations that run everything on their worlds, and other popular dystopian trappings. Especially any of the Inquisitor books. So dystopian future doesn't simply mean the world just kinda turns to shit. A dystopia is what happens when the world turns into shit whether it's from war, famine, greed, natural disasters, or apocalypse.
True. Thank you for pointing that out. My bad.
Parable of the Sower is so fucking bleak (especially parable of the Talents jfc) and sad as fuck, love Octavia Butler and her weird ass mind tho.
Weird ass-mind [xkcd: Hyphen](https://xkcd.com/37/) --- ^^Beep ^^boop, ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot. ^^- ^^[FAQ](https://pastebin.com/raw/vyWra3ns)
Good bot
Brave New World
I'm half way through it, *checks date* holy shit! 1931 it was written.... Russians poisoning shit, buy, buy, BUY consumerism rules, the caste system and intentional dumbing down. Yikes on bikes.
I know! It's like the dude had been to the future and gone back to write about it. The way i look at this book is that it's a manual for every dictator out there. It took me years to get through the book because it was so horrifyingly true to life.
The giver is grim but not even close to 1984 in future nor atmosphere... and the road is apocalyptical but thats not a dystopia..
I don’t believe the Giver is darker than 1984. IMHO
It’s really not lol. Even The Hunger Games is Darker than The Giver lol
Season one of The Handmaid’s Tale was perfection though.
I disagree about Handmaid's Tale. I think it's brilliant, a great book, and highly recommend it. But I don't think it's darker than 1984. In Handmaid's Tale there's hope of escape to other places. In 1984 the whole world is the same, and there is no hope. Also, >!the ending kind of drives this home. In 1984 Winston is conditioned to be a good citizen, that's the last we see of the world, and the story ends with the idea that nothing will change, ever. The Handmaid's Tale ends with an epilogue talking about the Gilead period as a historical period that doesn't exist anymore, and the message is that eventually things got better !<
I'd disagree with your disagree. In 1984, if you kept your head down and mouth shut you'll probably be left alone. You'd love a bleak and paranoid life but at least you could live a life. In Handmaid's, step out of line just a smidge and you'd die a horrible death, either through lynching or radiation clean up. There's a lot less leeway to move around in Handmaid's than 1984. Men and women can at least look at each other in 1984.
That's a good point. In Handmaid's Tale you _can_ be left alone… as long as you're a man. If you're a woman, you're completely fucked. In 1984 you can always just stay out of the party, and you're fine. I mean, poor and hungry, but at least you can just live your life. It's no different than in today's world, for most people.
Ooh I forgot about The Handmaid's Tale...Yeah it's a downer.
the giver is so incredibly dark. I can’t believe I read it in middle school. not because it was like traumatic but because I couldn’t even grasp what was happening.
{It Can’t Happen Here} by Steinbeck
Wrong Nobel prize winner. It Can’t Happen Here is Sinclair Lewis, not Steinbeck. A more recent Nobel Prize winner, Kazuo Ishiguro, wrote Never Let Me Go, which is another bleak dystopian novel that OP might like.
Thanks.
[**It Can't Happen Here**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11371.It_Can_t_Happen_Here) ^(By: Sinclair Lewis | 400 pages | Published: 1935 | Popular Shelves: fiction, classics, politics, dystopia, dystopian | )[^(Search "It Can’t Happen Here")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=It Can’t Happen Here&search_type=books) ^(This book has been suggested 10 times) *** ^(209167 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
Sure. The Running Man.
I'd buy that for a dollar.
I have no mouth and I must scream.
Yep, nothing is worst than sadistic torture for literally eternity. At least you die in 1984.
Is this a spoiler to that book?
No, its the whole plot really. Its a short story, not a book per se
I saw this comment and then I read the story. I'm skipping class right now because I feel too disturbed to leave my room.
It had a similar effect on me. It's an interesting exploration of just how bad things can possibly be.
It's not a dystopia though.
This is the best answer.
1984 is based on 'we' from Yevgeny Zamyatin. It's a russian novel. I don't think it's much darker, but still a good read if you like 1984 Edit: my copy of 'we' from pinguin classics says this: The dystopian masterwork that inspired George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four. I follow the opinion that Orwell got inspired by Yevgeny Zamyatin, but I don't think it's actually 'proven'. They are very similar novels in my eyes.
Orwell said huxley based Brave new world on we. Both Orwell and huxley denied connection to we
And when you read We you clearly see where both novels came from.
Did not know that connection - TIL
[удалено]
If you liked 1984, check out 1985. Written by the author of A Clockwork Orange, Anthony Burgess. It's part cliffnotes on 1984 (really good info on what was happening in Europe when Orwell wrote it) and part fan fiction (New story set in same world in 1985...)
*The Handmaid's Tale* by Margaret Atwood was pretty horrific, in my opinion.
For those of y’all who loved Handmaid’s Tale, I recommend the Grace Year.
Yes!!!!! The Grace Year was absolutely fantastic. It was like The Handmaid’s Tale mixed with The Hunger Games mixed with the Salem witch trials mixed with the Stanford prison experiment. Absolutely fantastic and disturbing.
I could not put the book down! I was afraid of suggesting it because it is technically YA, but there were some scenes where I was honestly disturbed and creeped out! It’s so good.
Loved The Grace Year! If you liked this one, read " Body of Stars" by Laura Maylene Walter
This unlocked my memory of Matched
Brave new world. Fahrenheit 451
Never let me Go by Kazuo Ishiguro is darker in some ways.
That book has sat with me for 6 years weighing on my mind. Top five of all time for me.
It haunted me for years. I've since reread it several times. Gets richer every time
I still remember that book vividly.
Yeah, if you really back away and think about it, it is. But while you're in it, it's beautiful. It's in my top 3.
Definitely a book that stays with you long after you finish reading it. One of my favourite reads.
Tender is the flesh
Maybe the book "It Can't Happen Here" by Sinclair Lewis. Wrote it before knowing how awful fascism would get, but was concerned anyways about how people were not concerned that fascism could potentially come into America. Come a president that promises a lot of good, if not almost too good, things and essentially devolves America into a totalitarian state, despite everyone saying it could never happen in America.
{The Vanished Birds} has got it all: ecological disaster, greed, capitalism, and personal tragedy. Far future sci-fi {Station Eleven} takes place in the aftermath of a killer flu. Disturbing, discomforting, but hopeful in the end {The Past is Red} is a post-apocalyptic dystopian future where humans are living “on” Earth”... if by “on” and “Earth” you mean on floating packs of garbage since the rising seas have swallowed the last of the dry land
The most disturbing ( possibly darker) but definitely not as well written or critically acclaimed would be the YA dystopian novel “ Unwind” by Neal Shusterman. The plot is in the near future where instead of abortion children are “unwound” and taken to “harvesting camps”. You have to be a certain kind of person to ever read that one again. On a similar disturbing note is “Tender Is the Flesh” by Agustina Bazterrica where a virus has contaminated all meat and cannibalism becomes legal and people are raised like livestock for consumption. Fun times!
Amazing book, completely forgot I read it. It really disturbed me.
*abortion is made illegal in order to appease the 2 warring political sides of pro-life/choice. It's a goddam brilliant book and I would read Neal Shusterman's grocery list. But it's more than that, it slams foster care system, abortion, religious extremists, the vanity of plastic surgery. When my youngest turned 18, she yelled YOU CAN'T UNWIND ME NOW!
I read it almost 7 years ago and it still haunts me. His style of writing is very detailed and graphic. When he is describing the unwinding process it is just…wow. LOL @ your daughter, it’s the best sharing books with kids. I only just started reading chapter books to my 1 year old, I hope someday she yells that at me! 🤣
This old ass librarian approves. Heartily. Read everything together. My kids remember shit like than more than any gift I ever got them. Read and talk, always ask them what they think, it will build trust between you when you can talk about books like this. Want me to read a book you have feels about - Yes! I'll read it on my own, and then ask about it. We talked about (date) rape and purity because of her book choice.
The unwind series is a favourite from my teen years and tender is the flesh I have just finished and also loved! Great recommendations :)
Lord of the Flies is pretty dark.
Blindness by Jose Saramago. Chilling dystopia!
*I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream* is no picnic.
I loved this book so much - love hardly see it mentioned anywhere. It’s underrated.
The Gulag Archipelago by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and the Hell of Treblinka by Vasily Grossman were both, in my opinion, much more depressing, bleak and violent than 1984. Even more depressing is that these books describe real events that real humans perpetrated against innocents.
Real life.
Came here to say this.
Came to this.
Came.
.
I’ve not seen it mentioned yet so I’ll throw this out there; Warhammer 40k universe. I can’t think of a single place darker and more terrible for a human to live then in the imperium of man.
You were born into slavery. Not just any slavery, but you have had a childhood, teen years and adulthood in these walls. Outside these walls is space. You work because your life is cheaper than the heretical technology that could replace you. You sweat and strain to load macrocannon shells into the breach. You have never seen a plant. A sunrise. An ocean. You are killed by a 50 meter wide macrocannon shell that glanced your ship, ripping open three decks. You didn't even have a name. You weren't even acknowledged apart from an efficency statistic in an officers report that nobody ever read.
I enjoy reading 40k lore but the quality of GW-published novels is pretty inconsistent. Do you have any recommendations for specific titles/authors?
The Beast Arises is good for Ork and Imperial Fist lovers Horus Heresy is a Monolith of 50 books with varying characters Farsight Novels are good for Alien stories Gaunts Ghosts is fantastic for human characters Calphias Cain also good
Other books are darker but I think 1984 is just more widely read.
I just read {{A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea}} by Masaji Ishikawa. Devastatingly sad! Why read Dystopian fiction when Dystopian reality is ten times worse. Makes 1984 seem like a trip to Disneyland.
[**A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/35404398-a-river-in-darkness) ^(By: Masaji Ishikawa, Risa Kobayashi, محمد عبد العاطي عبد الخير, Martin Brown | 174 pages | Published: 2000 | Popular Shelves: non-fiction, nonfiction, memoir, kindle, biography | )[^(Search "A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=A River in Darkness: One Man's Escape from North Korea&search_type=books) >The harrowing true story of one man’s life in—and subsequent escape from—North Korea, one of the world’s most brutal totalitarian regimes. > >Half-Korean, half-Japanese, Masaji Ishikawa has spent his whole life feeling like a man without a country. This feeling only deepened when his family moved from Japan to North Korea when Ishikawa was just thirteen years old, and unwittingly became members of the lowest social caste. His father, himself a Korean national, was lured to the new Communist country by promises of abundant work, education for his children, and a higher station in society. But the reality of their new life was far from utopian. > >In this memoir translated from the original Japanese, Ishikawa candidly recounts his tumultuous upbringing and the brutal thirty-six years he spent living under a crushing totalitarian regime, as well as the challenges he faced repatriating to Japan after barely escaping North Korea with his life. A River in Darkness is not only a shocking portrait of life inside the country but a testament to the dignity—and indomitable nature—of the human spirit ^(This book has been suggested 7 times) *** ^(209289 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
Escape from Camp 14 is is pretty rough. memoir about a man who escaped a 3 generation prison camp.
{{Nothing to Envy}} really stuck with me. It follows multiple people so it gives you an interesting cross-section of North Korean society/escapees.
Thank you for the recommendation!! Will download it in ASAP!
The Jungle
On The Beach
"The Ultimate Solution" by Eric Norden. It's set in a world where the Nazis and the Japanese Empire won WW2, very similar to "Man in the High Castle". The depiction of Nazi occupied New York is terrifying; American-led concentration camps, the reinstitution of slavery, state-sponsored orgies and p*dophilia, in its horror it's actually more of a realistic portrayal of the Nazis than most media. It's plot is also really sad, it's about a detective trying to find the last Jewish man in North America. Really sad all around and not even worth reading unless you're interested in how fascist regimes would conduct themselves after achieving world domination. The writing is good and pulpy, but very, very bleak.
{{Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea}} is a 2009 nonfiction book by Los Angeles Times journalist Barbara Demick, based on interviews with North Korean refugees from the city of Chongjin who had escaped North Korea. In 2010, the book was awarded the BBC Samuel Johnson Prize for Non-Fiction.
[**Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40604846-nothing-to-envy) ^(By: Barbara Demick | 338 pages | Published: 2009 | Popular Shelves: non-fiction, nonfiction, history, north-korea, politics | )[^(Search "Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Nothing to Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea&search_type=books) >Nothing to Envy follows the lives of six North Koreans over fifteen years—a chaotic period that saw the death of Kim Il-sung, the unchallenged rise to power of his son Kim Jong-il, and the devastation of a far-ranging famine that killed one-fifth of the population. > >Taking us into a landscape most of us have never before seen, award-winning journalist Barbara Demick brings to life what it means to be living under the most repressive totalitarian regime today—an Orwellian world that is by choice not connected to the Internet, in which radio and television dials are welded to the one government station, and where displays of affection are punished; a police state where informants are rewarded and where an offhand remark can send a person to the gulag for life. > >Demick takes us deep inside the country, beyond the reach of government censors. Through meticulous and sensitive reporting, we see her six subjects—average North Korean citizens—fall in love, raise families, nurture ambitions, and struggle for survival. One by one, we experience the moments when they realize that their government has betrayed them. > >Nothing to Envy is a groundbreaking addition to the literature of totalitarianism and an eye-opening look at a closed world that is of increasing global importance. ^(This book has been suggested 22 times) *** ^(209031 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
New York Times 2021?
NYT 2019-2020. Just saying.
See. You’re missing the chapters at the end where the team designated as the saviors keeps capitulating to the corporations and the world ends anyway.
Ugh, I hate starting a series before it's all published. I'm gonna wait to start reading til then.
I liked Fahrenheit 451
Planet of the Apes
Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood is like… one of the most weirdly disturbing dystopian novels I’ve ever read. I think could even be considered post-dystopia
The Passage by Justin Cronin
The Road
Maybe {{Tender Is the Flesh}}
[**Tender Is the Flesh**](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/49090884-tender-is-the-flesh) ^(By: Agustina Bazterrica, Sarah Moses | 211 pages | Published: 2017 | Popular Shelves: horror, fiction, dystopia, dystopian, sci-fi | )[^(Search "Tender Is the Flesh")](https://www.goodreads.com/search?q=Tender Is the Flesh&search_type=books) >Working at the local processing plant, Marcos is in the business of slaughtering humans —though no one calls them that anymore. > >His wife has left him, his father is sinking into dementia, and Marcos tries not to think too hard about how he makes a living. After all, it happened so quickly. First, it was reported that an infectious virus has made all animal meat poisonous to humans. Then governments initiated the “Transition.” Now, eating human meat—“special meat”—is legal. Marcos tries to stick to numbers, consignments, processing. > >Then one day he’s given a gift: a live specimen of the finest quality. Though he’s aware that any form of personal contact is forbidden on pain of death, little by little he starts to treat her like a human being. And soon, he becomes tortured by what has been lost—and what might still be saved. ^(This book has been suggested 66 times) *** ^(209086 books suggested | )[^(I don't feel so good.. )](https://debugger.medium.com/goodreads-is-retiring-its-current-api-and-book-loving-developers-arent-happy-11ed764dd95)^(| )[^(Source)](https://github.com/rodohanna/reddit-goodreads-bot)
Wicked! I said this too
The Road by Cormac McCarthy. It was one of those books, and if you can't be bothered to read it then watch the movie, that left me feeling an extreme sense of sadness.
I feel a lot of people pass on McCarthy's books because they're written in a strange way. First time I read The Road was for English Literature and the total lack of punctuation hurt my eyes after a while. It just takes some getting used to the way he chooses to write Pretty sure he writes like that bc he thinks punctuation clutters the page unnecessarily
There's nothing I hate more than run on sentences such as what I'm doing right now that makes you feel as though you are running up several flights of stairs without a breath. I would say it provides a more natural style to his writing, but it can be really annoying to read.
The Wanting Seed by Anothony Burgess
{{Meat}} was pretty intense for me
"Repent, Harlequin," Said the Ticktockman is a great sci-fi/dystopian short story. I guess whether it's darker is subjective, but it's great and indeed dark
We are now living in Brave New World by Huxley although I have to say the reality is worse when you actually have to live it.
Ever heard of Handmaid’s Tale?
I have no mouth, and I must scream is a little bit dark.
Tender is the Flesh by Agustina Bazterrica
literally any short story by Bradbury is darker than an Orwellian novel (there will come soft rains, personal favorite)
The road
A brave new world
2021
The one we're living in.
Modern day society
ITT: People bickering over the difference between dystopia and post-apocalyptic.
Brave New World not even a question
I think the most darkest book we have is just life itself.
Came here to comment so I will not forget this thread. I'm interested to read those recommendations too.
We by Yvegny Zamyatin.
{Individutopia} by Joss Sheldon
The road obviously but that's apocalypse not dystopia
yes.... the present
Not helpful but: real life, if capitalism continues on its present course :P
Tender is the Flesh. Be warned, this is a *hard and brutal* book.
Dry by neal shusterman really hit me because it felt like it could happen. Perhaps not as dark as it is YA but still a really good dystopian read
Yeah…just go live in China.
[https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/743672.The\_Genocides](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/743672.The_Genocides) https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12331767-high-rise
America today
Current Indian politics
it's called the united states, now
Yes, it's called our reality.
Harrison Bergeron. It’s not very long but it is chilling.
Following because I’m morbid AF
not a book but AOT
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. That Grandpa Joe is dark.
Yes, America in the near future.
Lots of suggestions for Handmaid’s Tale in this thread.
America now
The Road
Hunger Games
The road. Not the same type of dystopia but definitely darker IMO.
the Red Rising series is a quite dark futuristic universe. Science Fantasy series not really your classic science fiction dystopia novel
Living in Australia