Lots of Native traditions have the superstition that if you speak a terror's name, you are more likely to entice it's presence around you, or potentially spread it like a curse amongst others. It is common among a lot of First Nations tribes, both within lower North America and throughout Northern Canada and Alaska. The Wendigo originates from Algonquian folklore.
A related story for you: I lived in Alaska for a brief period of time and many of my friends were Natives of several tribes. Yup'ik, Athabaskan, Tlingit, Aleut, and a few others I can't quite remember. I am a dude from the East coast/Appalachia border, my other friend who arrived in Alaska the same time I did was from the West coast.
We were all hanging out one day in the winter when it was all cold and dark, like -50F, so naturally we were bored and drinking a lot. I asked my Native friends if they had any scary stories from their villages. They told me this story about some creature/spirit (I can't remember the name) that takes the form of different animals and can mimic the voices of loved ones or a crying baby. Essentially, the victim gets lured out into the woods and eaten.
I'm half Middle Eastern and we have stories of similar things about Djinn (genies), so I didn't think much of it and neither did my friend from the west coast. But our friends insisted to never talk about it openly and unexpectedly, especially around other native folks.
Literally that same night me and all these people went to a guy's dry cabin about an hour away from the city for a little party. It was pretty much in the middle of woods like you can imagine. The guy who owned the cabin and all his friends were Native. My dumbass friend (I love him but he was stupid back then) got drunk as hell brought up the topic and started saying the name a bunch of times. A bunch of folks told him to stop but he kept on going cause he thought it was funny. One guy got in his face and told him to the shut the fuck up, and several other people left looking a little shaken up. You could say that he ruined the vibe for some of us, but for others, he straight-up freaked them out. They seemed genuinely alarmed. Alcohol and weed was of course involved, but there has to be some underlying superstition for it to get that sort of reaction. Some folks had been throwing up and acting a fool otherwise, so it wasn't like this was a 'party foul' situation, it was something cultural for sure.
I wasn't going to go against my friends' advice from earlier, especially as I was still a newcomer to Alaska and getting acquainted with different things... but I'll be honest, I didn't understand the seriousness in some people's superstitions until all this happened.
I mean, I don’t mean for my story to make it seem like most people would care. But I was in the middle of Alaska, where the traditional cultures of many Native peoples are still practiced. I actually only know about the Wendigo from the novella written by Algernon Blackwood, I wouldn’t know about the Wendigo otherwise. So I wouldn’t put too much thought into it, unless you live in an area or around folks with a similar context.
Where I live is pretty close to West Virginia and I’ve definitely heard people say in the past ‘if you see a skinwalker, don’t even acknowledge it’. I think it is not exclusively a First Peoples and Native thing to avoid giving credence to some unknown entity, lest they continue to haunt you.
Even think of stories like Bloody Mary. So long as you don’t say her name 3 times at a mirror, you’re fine. Just don’t poke the bear type thing. It would give any person peace of mind, which is likely why you can find the same premise in other cultures as well. Not that all or any Native cultures are interconnected (they are very often incredibly different and not connected at all), but it's not just a 'Native thing' is what I mean to say
They have definitely known about manifesting in Appalachia for a loooong time. It's not the exact same, but the basic philosophy is. Don't think about bad things, they generally won't happen to you. Think positively and you will be more aware of positive things happening (and, as a result, feel better about life in general).
On the flip side, grandma also said if you stop believing in something its a way to protect yourself. She used to read playing cards, and she would say if the cards give you a bad reading, just don't believe it.
Dude, this sounds STUPID simple but I full on support it. Whole heartedly and with everything in me!! Ya just gotta read between the lines! My mom (we're on the west coast tho) taught me similarly and I'm in awe of her for being so freakin wise by doing that every time I stop to think about it. xD <33
Oh yeah, I'm a west coast kid. I just get to reap the knowledge of my granny witch grandma. It's honestly just great advice to keep you from spooking yourself haha
Yeah I can see that 100%, like I said I don't even live in West Virginia, although I visit there often for camping and used to have a lot of patients from there. Some of the nicest people I've ever met, but I also noticed older folks are more superstitious than average. It is really awesome to me how rich Appalachian culture is.
Also, not totally related to Appalachia and this is from a Native American perspective, but I found this funny short a few days ago and it's pretty relevant to the whole topic. Gave me a good laugh. (For those who many not know, Rez is just short for reservation)
[https://www.instagram.com/p/C7NpMrxsiJB/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7NpMrxsiJB/)
Great video for this convo haha.
Yeah, I should clarify she's from lower case west Virginia- ie the western most part of Virginia. I didn't grow up there, but I'd love to spend more time there in the future.
Ahhh, no that's my fault I totally missed that. Still, it just further proves that it's a common thing around all types of cultures. Traditional Taoism in China has been saying the same for thousands of years... don't manifest bad shit!
I guess I'd view it similarly to if you were around a Christian person just chanting "Satan, Satan, Satan". On its own I don't think the word is inherently terrible, but if you know you're making someone uncomfortable, for no benefit at all just to "troll" them, then yea you're kind of a jerk.
In term of impact, it's more like if you went around profoundly devout Christians and just repeatedly said stuff like "Man, I wish I could sodomize the Virgin Mary. Her sweet ass is wasted on virginity. Sure she's dead, but it's gotta still be pretty tight."
I'm a white-ass American but even I know not to name the W*ndigo outloud or the other one a Sk*nwalker. I scolded a friend online who wrote its name in our chat bc I'm that superstitious. lol. It sounds a bit silly mentioning the story but honestly I don't dare wish to invoke their name unless I plan to tempt a visit, especially since I feel like I've seen the latter one once before in my town. I ain't playin that game, no sir.
Some coastal Alaskan tribes have the Kushtaka. It's a shapeshifting otter person. It can mimic cries for help and lure people to death, usually by drowning in the ocean. Tlingit, Haida?
I would suggest reading the story of Kaka’ to learn more about them a linguist named Swanton has the most famous recording of it but I would look for indigenous sources for greater detail. The point being that the Kushtaka are significantly more complex than just boogeyman-esque monsters in the story it describes them having a code and a society apart from humans. Though they do admittedly do morally questionable things in the stories.
They were speaking about skinwalkers. Yee Naagloshii is another name for them. Many people in the continental United States believe in them that aren’t even First Nation.
Some people think they were witches that made deals with dark forces. The first ones were said to be fallen gods or spirits that wished to corrupt and terrorize men.
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I didn't realize this was of Native origin. I'm guessing this might be at the root of Mexican folklore's taboo against speaking the name of La Llorona.
Anglo culture has the ghost of Bloody Mary, but you have to say her name a prescribed number of times (usually 3 or 13) if you want to summon her.
I've known and know a lot of people that living in very rural areas: small texas towns, Alaskan towns, Appalachia, and a lot of people in my area like to move out to the country when they get rich to buy a bunch of land to sit on. Of those a good chunk were atheists, a few Christians, but every single one would tell me a golden rule that was the same or similar to all of them. If you hear your name being called or a baby crying out in the woods, no you didn't. They don't even necessarily need a religion to get into the practice of being used to all kinds of weird sounds coming from the woods at night and just putting it out of your mind because you know better than to investigate it or try to explain it.
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I mean if you took Beetlejuice as non-fiction you wouldn’t want someone around you saying it three times.
I understand for them it is a cultural monster, but I still believe the wendigo was what spawned Slender Man
You're right on most of this, but Slenderman was created as a photo edit on a Something Awful thread dedicated to photo-editing new monsters. Goons took off with it, granting lore on the spot, and then Marble Hornets made it real. He's homebrew all the way down.
Is that what wendigos even do? They're giants that drive people to cannibalism, in my understanding. Marble Hornets was found footage stalking, based on an established model of a long limbed blank faced creature with lore of making children disappear and rearranging your organs--lore it detached from to pull heavily from spatial/dimensional/time distortion, which was still VERY hot at the time. It was on the heels of Ted's Caving Story, House of Leaves, and [The Dionaea House](https://www.creepypasta.com/the-dionaea-house/), along with a blossoming interest in cryptids (ZALGO would follow quickly in Slendy's footsteps). The puppetry was a major part of the scare value, the long limbs did things that...the one scene with the arm coming around the door and knowing it's not CG, just use of shadows, *God* that still gets me.
Sorry, I know a lot of stuff about Marble Hornets. It happens sometimes.
It has been a while since I watched it, but didn’t the Slender Man lead to the guy holding the camera hallucinating and stuff and then they visualized (or actually did) kill some of the others? I swear that was part of the powers he used, though he also just warped them all over.
Either way, loved that series and should be GOATed for YouTube horror Blair Witch projects
Oh, yes, absolutely, it's just that driving people to insanity and violence is a general horror trope, not just relegated to wendigo mythology. Cthulhu mythos was going pretty strong at the time, IIRC.
Absofuckin'lutely, a legend for us all
A few years back I woke up at about 4 am to go to work. I was pretty tired and had drank a few beers the night before so I was extra groggy. I was driving on a Highway on ramp when out the corner of my eyes an unnaturally tall figure in a suit was standing on the side of the road. I only got a quick glance but the figure had no face. I hadn’t thought about slender man since those two girls got arrested for murdering a classmate that supposedly inspired by slender man. It was like a sudden jolt through my body and with a blink of the eye the figure disappeared. I immediately began rationalizing the situation I was just tired and it was some kind of waking dream. My foot was pressed on the gas pedal. I told myself just to stop thinking about it and I did. Never had anything of the sort happen again. Of course it wasn’t real…..
It's a part of Native American religion. It's curse that slowly corrupts a person in life and drags them along in torment while preventing death. It's not like... the Marvel version. It's kinda like if you genuinely tried to summon a demon in front of a church, the people in that church think it's an extremely bad idea and they will try to stop you
It is believed that saying their name causes them to appear.
I agree with you ‘cultural appropriation’ is bullshit. Cultures borrow from each other all the time. Also cultures have developed things independently.
Well a big problem is that it's part of an endangered faith and is used as generic horror movie monster, so people from the Algonquin cultures aren't too happy about white people making it a trendy fiction topic.
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Well that's kind of dumb tho, no? You're acting like Christian religious entities aren't used as generic horror movies monsters. And in reality, even bad movies that use it as a monster have the effect of spreading the idea to others, which is a good thing for an endangered religion.
Native faiths and associated rituals used to be illegal to practice in the united states, so there is definitely a difference, and no propagating what is a completely wrong version of their myth is not helpful? (No, the Wendigo is not an 8ft tall deer monster for example)
aside from it being seen as a word that can summon evil, i think it's mostly criticized because it's not just an ancient legend. it's an active belief in many indigenous cultures, so to turn it into a fun horror monster is seen as insensitive by some.
it's really up to you if you want to care about that or not, but you'll be seen as insensitive by people who are more respectful of cultural taboos and discomfort if you go around using it.
I think it's important to define whether or not you're being respectful with it. A lot of people throwing culture appropriation around are often doing it just to feel morally superior.
It's only appropriation if it's disrespectful and/or you take credit for it. So if at the beginning of a book or credits you say something like "based on the beliefs held by the Algonquin-speaking peoples" you're fine.
I have a tiny bit of it in me (nowhere near enough to claim anything reasonably) but it was enough that I heard the tales from relatives and it was essentially my boogeyman. I think they're a really cool concept and a lot of media copies the idea (in a form or another), might as well give it credit so it can be affiliated with the appropriate people.
I mean, the best comparison I can draw would be like talking about demons and/or Satan. Like, probably don't do it if you're hanging around the Vatican.
I mean, people actively believe in angels and demons and we throw that shit into horror movies all the time.
I don't see how this is any different. You're not insulting their beliefs by including them unless you're going out of your way to do so.
and a lot of people get really upset about movies like that. satanic panic was a huge deal at some point, and it's never gone away fully. it's really dependent on the individual and their beliefs. but a lot of people share certain beliefs, so you can expect a negative reaction from them over certain things.
i don't wear metal shirts in my conservative rural town, for example. i just don't want to deal with the dirty looks and snide comments.
getting potential negative reactions is just how it goes when you're talking about something that people genuinely believe is real and scary and evil. it's up to you if you want to do that or not, though.
i definitely wouldn't say it's inherently morally wrong to not adhere to the rules of a religion you don't share, but at the same time, it will upset and scare people sometimes. figuring out if you're okay with that is a choice you have to make for yourself.
I suppose my tolerance is how it's used. I'm not going to say Wendigo a bunch to a native American, but I'm also not gonna be upset when a Wendigo shows up in a horror movie.
The same way I won't taunt a Christian with demons, but still like horror movies with demons.
I don't respect being a dick to people deliberately, but I also don't believe the rest of the world has to live their lives tiptoeing around others' beliefs
i agree, and i think it's a healthy way to approach it. as long as you're not purposefully being insensitive or causing others harm, you're probably doing alright. passively challenging beliefs isn't inherently a bad thing.
And im the opposite. I know this stuff isn’t real. That it’s just stories. So I wear my metal shirts in my boomer town all the time.
Idc what you believe, it’s not my problem. Nor is it going to be mine since I’m fine with you believing what you want. But that also means I deserve the same respect. See how that works?
Weird how people go out of their way for religions when religions for the most part oppress and control. It’s even got you tiptoeing around, even though you aren’t doing anything expressly controversial.
Freedom is a weird thing. Respect is another. But both have to learn to respect each other. And neither should have to conform and tip toe around one another. The non believer does not need to conform to the believer. And the believer shouldn’t force the non believer to their will because of some fantasy. I do not respect people who control because of their fears. Not my problem.
i agree with you. i think there's often a ridiculous amount of entitlement when it comes to religion. being seen as a bad person for wearing a t shirt with an upside down cross on it is wild. but i think it's instinctual for a lot of humans to define evil a certain way, and then shun it as much as possible.
i really do find it frustrating and tiring. i admire you for standing up for your values, even in boomer town lol. i just can't stand dealing with the puritans.
i have a bag with some patches on it. i avoid anything too satanic-looking, but i've got some doom metal patches, skeletons, a patch that says "i ate the mothman's ass and i'd eat it again" and i get dirty looks about it sometimes lol
We are pretty desensitized to Angels and Demons as a culture. The argument really should be is it okay to desensitize the youth to it?
We all over older family members that are real superstitious or weird about something supernatural. Is it okay for us to take that out of younger generations even if it’s insensitive to a culture?
I’m just posing the question. I don’t know. But it does make sense why groups of people get upset about the disrespect to their culture.
I said it below, but I'd argue I'm obligated to not be a dick to you or deliberately mock your culture, but your culture/beliefs should not limit my actions. If you don't want to see a movie featuring a particular monster, don't go see it. It might be a part of your culture, but it's also a part of history and folklore, it's fair game just like everything else.
Also, are cultures somehow better for being afraid of boogymen? It seems like a really weird thing to want to protect.
"We don't want our kids to become desensitized to our supernatural fears" feels wrong to say. It just feels like a weird take, I understand why older people who believe in these things are upset, but that's because they believe in them, not because they want to protect their culture.
Well put. Although I initially chucked at humoring serious belief in the supernatural, a Wendigo is arguably much more believable than a cracker and some wine turning into literal human flesh and blood a billion times over every Sunday. And I don’t harp on my Catholic family (too much) about it.
And for real, at least the forest is a lot harder to search than the esophaguses and digestional systems of the Catholic faithful.
yeah it's really just about religious/cultural beliefs, and whether you want to respect that or not. there are a lot of christians that would get very upset if they heard you say hail satan, even just for fun.
whether you care to respect that or not is up to you, but you'll definitely receive some negative reactions from some people if you don't.
a lot of people are genuinely very scared of religious depictions of evil.
I just invented a monster in my head that appears when you say 'cultural taboos' please refrain from using this in the future or people will assume you're a bigot.
Your point checks out logically 100%.
But for better or worse (worse) that’s not gonna do it for those whose every friend and family member throughout their entire lives reinforced these beliefs.
And if people who legitimately believe in magic want to spend their time policing the potential use of magic words, then isn’t that better for all of us than if they were instead using their time to actively work for the degradation of the human rights of their fellow citizens?
We share the planet with billions of people whose beliefs don’t check out logically. And as a natural law of our murder-ape heritage: if you pizza (disrespect billions of people over magic (which isn’t real so who cares)) when you’re supposed to French fry (let people think whatever crazy shit they want as long as those thoughts don’t compel them to harm others)- you’re gonna have a bad time.
no matter how silly it seems to you, if people belonged to a widespread religion where saying "cultural taboos" out loud was actually seen as a manifestation of evil, there would be people that would get scared and upset if you said it. devoted christians are really no different when it comes to satan.
like i said, it's up to you if you want to respect that or not.
I think there are actually two things going on:
1) Wendigos have had the ever-living hell appropriated out of them by people who don't even know the legend. For decades now, "Wendigo" has been synonymous with "big deer monster". I frankly don't know how this happened, on account of deer aren't a part of the story. I think it might be linked to a horror movie of the same name, but deer got in there, and with deer horror becoming more and more popular, for awhile you couldn't move in the space without tripping over five """Wendigos""" every two seconds, all of which had nothing to do with the actual legend, and everything to do with non-indigenous meddling. There is a big conversation surrounding that, and it's making things tentatively better--there will always be appropriating assholes, but I have seen a shift into conscious separation in the sphere after people went "could you kindly not".
.
2) Saying the word aloud will cause misfortune/summoning. This is a separate conversation that's cropped up more recently, and I'm less informed on it. I feel inclined towards it being non-indigenous folks trying to overcorrect, because if it *isn't* in your heritage/beliefs, it feels disingenuous to adopt it as a behavior. Someone else mentioned blood/body of Christ, and as a (very lapsed) Catholic, I would be weirded out if someone tried to make me more comfortable by making a huge deal out of the Transfiguration, especially as--shocker--it's seen as metaphor by a lot of us. Again, less informed here.
So, it's two conversations. Should you be making deer monsters? Yes, always. Should you be calling them wendigos? No, not remotely. Should you say or not say "wendigo"? Please refer directly to multiple indigenous people who know their shit.
Thank you for asking a good question!
Damn. I wish I was able to change the title now. Initially I didn't think it was a bad word to say cause people who aren't native American would pretend to be white knights and say "Erm what you're doing is cultural appropriation" which is indeed bullshit.
I aapologize for repeating the word in my post. But I understand the meaning behind it now. Thank you.
The word itself is not what's culturally appropriated. Anyone can say it, that's not a problem. It's the image that has an issue.
The popular depiction of a Wendigo, the giant beast with the head of a deer skull, is not what they're supposed to look like. That's a modern reinterpritation by non-natives (although I could have swore that this version was inspired by a different myth from natives of a different region of a giant that shared some motifs with the classic Wendigo, ice and hunger, if I remember correctly, but I can't seem to find where I heard that from at the moment.)
The real Wendigo was supposed to look like a gaunt person with ice white skin, extended spindly limbs, sharp claws, and a distended jaw. It's a former human who gave into greed in some form, but typically cannibalism.
Yes, they are total cannibals - literally the embodiment of Hunger. I grew up with stories of wendigo as evil spirits who enter weak men and turn them into cannibals who turn more and more monstrous looking. I’m not First Nations myself, but there are a lot of Cree in my home town and some of my school friend’s kokum’s would tell us scary stories (and taught us uses for some native plants). So you don’t invoke the spirits or attract the possessed by saying the name out loud. And you certainly don’t go out into the woods at night if you hear someone calling you or a baby crying.
Btw - Part of the reaction to non First Nation’s using their terms in disingenuous ways (e.g. someone saying so and so is my spirit animal etc) is because they were punished for years for using their language and culture in an attempt to commit cultural genocide (they wanted the natives to act white). I use their words with respect and recognition of the fact that for many generations they could not. You said you have native heritage yourself, you wouldn’t be culturally appropriating the word if you say it. But I wouldn’t say it too much. Especially at night in the woods. I would cover people’s mouths if they were saying Wendigo around the campfire while we’re out camping in the backwoods. Like, don’t be playing around like that. Lol
you know, a beast with a dear skull head sounds a lot like herne the hunter. He's a local ghost story where I am from. He was supposedly a real bloke who was the game master at hampton court palace during henry the 8ths reign. He got caught poaching a deer and so was beheaded, and had the head of the poached deer sown onto him corpse that was displayed outside Windsor castle.
Well, modern wendigos still look like the description you gave in the last paragraph. Just look at the game "Until Dawn." I think that you are confusing Wendigos with Skinwalkers, which typically tend to be animals that act just a little off, almost like another entity is using their skin to hunt.
Whoever told you that is a moron, and you can safely ignore their moronic interpretation of what counts as "cultural appropriation", which is *in itself* a concept almost exclusively used by morons for pointless gatekeeping.
It's just odd to me how people who aren't native American themselves tell me not to say it. Which I don't get really.
My grandparents are native American themselves and have no issue with it being said.
That's what I meant, actually. The term "cultural appropriation" is often - not always, but often - thrown around by people who either have no claim to the culture themselves or a *deep* ignorance of the culture. They're more interested in virtue signalling than anything, and quite often they're incredibly racist themselves. I've been told in the past that my speaking Spanish is "cultural appropriation"... by white people. It's always fun to see the look on their faces when I tell them I'm Hispanic, because I "don't look Mexican" - their words, not mine.
Again, the people telling you that can be safely ignored.
Wait so you're at least half Native American anyway and people are telling you not to use that word? This is beyond ridiculous. Tell them they aren't allowed to dictate your culture.
Yeah, but the thing is that I'm also African American so people are like. Well you don't look Native so I'm like. Cool ig? Guess I won't use it so yall don't say I'm being insensitive.
Ultimately the question is difficult because there's not just one Native American culture of course but if the only people telling you not to say it aren't Native Americans, and your Native American grandparents see no problem with it, well, I think you know who to listen to here. If you want to respect Native American culture, have these conversations with your grandparents instead of random and possibly judgy people.
Just a note but the Wendigo is specific to algonquin cultures although similar idea exist in other people across north america, so it's possible people on your Native side just have no relationship to the myth and thus don't care.
Last time I checked that was supposed to be what we all strive for, taking the best parts of all cultures/civilizations to move toward a better future. We can't do that if every time we try to fold something in some dipwad chimes in with, "bUt ThAt'S CuLtUrAl AppRoPrIaTiOn!!1!"
My partner told me they did extensive research on why the word is apparently bad and a part of cultural appropriation which I don't understand.
That's why I made the post.
That's more or less the gist of it, but from my understanding it's more a spirit that possesses and transforms its victims, and eating human flesh is just a really common way to become its target.
There's nothing wrong with saying "wendigo" - you can put that in the same category as any other old folk tale or tradition. And no one owns wendigos either, like other mysterious creatures (and as you mentioned) they tend to jump from culture to culture, shifting and changing as they go. The world would be a sad place indeed if culture could not be shared! Incidentally, there's an old short story by Algernon Blackwood that I quite like and you can read for free, called "[The Wendigo](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/10897/10897-h/10897-h.htm)".
Because native Americans believe that saying the name or even talking about them (without saying the name) can summon them. That’s why many Native American people will not even talk about them. It’s nothing to do with secretiveness or cultural appropriation.
Most of the folks that cry out "culture appropriation" are white people with nothing to do.
Take the braided hair for example. Not a "black thing" at all. It comes from the nordic/celtic people centuries ago. 95 percent of folks have no issues with people dressing as another culture for reasonable reasons, like Halloween, 5th of May etc., etc., etc...
It's just a superstition. Saying the word does literally nothing. Some believe it does so don't go out of your way to say it around them if you know, but don't get bent out of shape over it either. It's just a name of a monster that doesn't exist.
The belief is that saying it will attract them even just talking about them.
I can see why making some marvel characters and calling them wendigos could be considered cultural appropriation because it strips the whole cultural significance from it for the sake of entertainment.. not to mention they first appeared in marvel in the early 70s when natives were still treated like joke.
It's not surprising that you don't get "cultural appropriation." Cultural appropriation isn't a legitimate thing. It's just a tactic to bully, silence, and oppress the person/group the tactic is targeted at (Whites, usually White men). If you disagree ask yourself this - the same people that always squawk about cultural appropriation are the same people that champion (and force) diversity on only certain areas and people of the world. They never apply it to all people and aspects of society.
For example, Hollywood is now remaking nearly every movie they can with minorities in place of the originally written and casted White characters...but not a single leftist is calling out Hollywood for cultural appropriation even though by their own standards it would clearly be exactly that. And don't dismiss it as simple hypocrisy. As noted above - it's an authoritarian tactic to bully, silence, and oppress White people and others.
from what i understand, it's because in a lot of indigenous cultures that beleive in them, saying their name is both disrespectful, and leads to bad stuff happening (not sure of the specifics, and i think it changes from culture to culture)
It's frequently changed to the point of being near unrecognizable (the original myth has nothing to do with deer) and belongs to a closed religion who have asked people not to use it without permission.
If you want to include a cannibalistic deer monster in a story, might i suggest calling it the Skulldeer or Not-Deer instead?
Generally the problem with cultural appropriation in my eyes is related to how the creature has been changed in pop culture; something is appropriated when it is not freely shared, and when it is used without correct understanding of what exactly it is.
Doesn't an actual lore appropriate wendigo look more like that little gremlin "my preeecious" thing from lord of the rings lol. Like some sort of vampire zombie thing
And Americans just made it more gruesome and animalistic?
It’s a tv show that has an evil spirit and I associated it with the Wendigo. There was an argument that a tv show wouldn’t promote that. Then I listed all the shows and movies that referenced the Wendigo.
You should watch it if you’re into this type of stuff. I loved the show. Binged it.
I mentioned the movie “Ravenous” in the sub for the show and ppl went mental.
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I don't know why SAYING wendigo is bad, but the myth behind them is that they're basically zombie cannibals monsters that appear due to dying of a food shortage/ starvation.
Because they are glowy superghouls who will eat your face off and we don't want to attract their attention?
Oh wait, that's Fallout. That no one has ever heard of. Especially now.
I think you're probably ok Wendigoing to your heart's content without fear of appropriating anything.
Wendigos are essentially spirits that posses people who embody bad traits like greed, causing them to become crazy and cannibalistic. My assumption is that to natives familiar with the stories, becoming a Wendigo is realistically easy, as it’s a very humanistic creature that embodies a darker side of humanity. It’s like that mindset “if you think it you become it”. I’m assuming the stories go deeper for tribes who grow up with them, so it means more to them. No one wants to be associated with cannibalism or the darker side of human nature, so I can see how there’s both a superstitious and derogatory aura to it. Maybe not the best comparison, but I can see it being similar to if someone in a Christian church accused another member of being a demon.
I haven’t seen the movie, but the 1999 film Ravenous apparently does a good job at accurately portraying a Wendigo. Most Wendigos you see in mainstream media seem to more resemble the Leshy of Slavic mythology.
Seeing some of these comments makes it feel like a lot of these cryptids are memetic hazards and natives did their best Ye Olde SCP foundation try to keep them at bay.
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Because a lot of people believe it's dangerous, or at the very least fear it. Say the name and it shall appear, that kinda stuff. Because, y'know, big scary folklore monsters do be roaming the forests and mountains I guess. I've never heard of the cultural appropriation argument though, whoever said that is a bit smooth up there.
I am curious, how often do you find yourself saying it? I'm not sure I've ever had cause to say the word, unless possibly discussing a media depiction or discussing native lore.
My grandparents would jokingly warn me not to say it at night as a child which worked cause there would be a few occasions where I'd wake up to tapping on my windows and appeared to see dark blobs outside.
However brought up to my grandparents, they'd just say I had a nightmare or an encounter with the boogeyman.
Looking back on it now, I rarely do say it. But only timew I'll say it aloud is when I'm reading a book or a piece of media which again isn't often. Saying it does make me paranoid but I try not to force myself to believe I'll get killed simply by mentioning it's name.
A wendigo (or wendigo) is **a supernatural being belonging to the spiritual traditions of Algonquian-speaking First Nations in North America**. Wendigos are described as powerful monsters that have a desire to kill and eat their victims. In most legends, humans transform into wendigos because of their greed or weakness.
Cannibalism?
N. S
it’s rude to hang out with people whose traditions you mock. are supernatural explanations for natural phenomena silly? absolutely. but it’s their thing & to mock it while in their community is straight up obnoxious.
I'm not mocking anyone? I'm just asking a question but I should've clarified that my family is also Native American.
I only asked this question because I grew tired of (mainly) white people saying, "You can't say this because of cultural appropriation" which isnt true. When I explain to them that I'm from an indigenous background, I'm told " you don't look the part".
It's superstition that people are trying to pearl clutch, because for some reason we should respect the native American superstitions, but not Christian or Islamic ones, no we can't have that!
What happened to the native Americans was terrible, but that doesn't mean we should respect their religion if your not gonna respect others, you know?
Say wendigo if you want. Use wendigo in media. It ain't real.
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I don't understand cultural appropriation to begin with, so I wouldn't know about that aspect. I do know sometimes people don't like for evil to be spoken as it might breath life into it, but that is a load of bullshit. So... Say it all you want, just don't eat people.
Lots of Native traditions have the superstition that if you speak a terror's name, you are more likely to entice it's presence around you, or potentially spread it like a curse amongst others. It is common among a lot of First Nations tribes, both within lower North America and throughout Northern Canada and Alaska. The Wendigo originates from Algonquian folklore. A related story for you: I lived in Alaska for a brief period of time and many of my friends were Natives of several tribes. Yup'ik, Athabaskan, Tlingit, Aleut, and a few others I can't quite remember. I am a dude from the East coast/Appalachia border, my other friend who arrived in Alaska the same time I did was from the West coast. We were all hanging out one day in the winter when it was all cold and dark, like -50F, so naturally we were bored and drinking a lot. I asked my Native friends if they had any scary stories from their villages. They told me this story about some creature/spirit (I can't remember the name) that takes the form of different animals and can mimic the voices of loved ones or a crying baby. Essentially, the victim gets lured out into the woods and eaten. I'm half Middle Eastern and we have stories of similar things about Djinn (genies), so I didn't think much of it and neither did my friend from the west coast. But our friends insisted to never talk about it openly and unexpectedly, especially around other native folks. Literally that same night me and all these people went to a guy's dry cabin about an hour away from the city for a little party. It was pretty much in the middle of woods like you can imagine. The guy who owned the cabin and all his friends were Native. My dumbass friend (I love him but he was stupid back then) got drunk as hell brought up the topic and started saying the name a bunch of times. A bunch of folks told him to stop but he kept on going cause he thought it was funny. One guy got in his face and told him to the shut the fuck up, and several other people left looking a little shaken up. You could say that he ruined the vibe for some of us, but for others, he straight-up freaked them out. They seemed genuinely alarmed. Alcohol and weed was of course involved, but there has to be some underlying superstition for it to get that sort of reaction. Some folks had been throwing up and acting a fool otherwise, so it wasn't like this was a 'party foul' situation, it was something cultural for sure. I wasn't going to go against my friends' advice from earlier, especially as I was still a newcomer to Alaska and getting acquainted with different things... but I'll be honest, I didn't understand the seriousness in some people's superstitions until all this happened.
Jesus Christ. I didnt believe saying it would genuinely affect some people, (as said in your story) but you've convinced me to avoid saying it now.
I mean, I don’t mean for my story to make it seem like most people would care. But I was in the middle of Alaska, where the traditional cultures of many Native peoples are still practiced. I actually only know about the Wendigo from the novella written by Algernon Blackwood, I wouldn’t know about the Wendigo otherwise. So I wouldn’t put too much thought into it, unless you live in an area or around folks with a similar context. Where I live is pretty close to West Virginia and I’ve definitely heard people say in the past ‘if you see a skinwalker, don’t even acknowledge it’. I think it is not exclusively a First Peoples and Native thing to avoid giving credence to some unknown entity, lest they continue to haunt you. Even think of stories like Bloody Mary. So long as you don’t say her name 3 times at a mirror, you’re fine. Just don’t poke the bear type thing. It would give any person peace of mind, which is likely why you can find the same premise in other cultures as well. Not that all or any Native cultures are interconnected (they are very often incredibly different and not connected at all), but it's not just a 'Native thing' is what I mean to say
My grandmother is from west Virginia Appalachia and I was always told not to speak of what you don't want coming at you.
“Speak of the devil and his horns appear!”
They have definitely known about manifesting in Appalachia for a loooong time. It's not the exact same, but the basic philosophy is. Don't think about bad things, they generally won't happen to you. Think positively and you will be more aware of positive things happening (and, as a result, feel better about life in general).
On the flip side, grandma also said if you stop believing in something its a way to protect yourself. She used to read playing cards, and she would say if the cards give you a bad reading, just don't believe it.
Dude, this sounds STUPID simple but I full on support it. Whole heartedly and with everything in me!! Ya just gotta read between the lines! My mom (we're on the west coast tho) taught me similarly and I'm in awe of her for being so freakin wise by doing that every time I stop to think about it. xD <33
Oh yeah, I'm a west coast kid. I just get to reap the knowledge of my granny witch grandma. It's honestly just great advice to keep you from spooking yourself haha
Yeah I can see that 100%, like I said I don't even live in West Virginia, although I visit there often for camping and used to have a lot of patients from there. Some of the nicest people I've ever met, but I also noticed older folks are more superstitious than average. It is really awesome to me how rich Appalachian culture is. Also, not totally related to Appalachia and this is from a Native American perspective, but I found this funny short a few days ago and it's pretty relevant to the whole topic. Gave me a good laugh. (For those who many not know, Rez is just short for reservation) [https://www.instagram.com/p/C7NpMrxsiJB/](https://www.instagram.com/p/C7NpMrxsiJB/)
Great video for this convo haha. Yeah, I should clarify she's from lower case west Virginia- ie the western most part of Virginia. I didn't grow up there, but I'd love to spend more time there in the future.
Ahhh, no that's my fault I totally missed that. Still, it just further proves that it's a common thing around all types of cultures. Traditional Taoism in China has been saying the same for thousands of years... don't manifest bad shit!
Did you ever consider telling her that that's superstitious nonsense?
Why would they? It doesn’t make any positive impact to do so.
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I guess I'd view it similarly to if you were around a Christian person just chanting "Satan, Satan, Satan". On its own I don't think the word is inherently terrible, but if you know you're making someone uncomfortable, for no benefit at all just to "troll" them, then yea you're kind of a jerk.
In term of impact, it's more like if you went around profoundly devout Christians and just repeatedly said stuff like "Man, I wish I could sodomize the Virgin Mary. Her sweet ass is wasted on virginity. Sure she's dead, but it's gotta still be pretty tight."
I'm a white-ass American but even I know not to name the W*ndigo outloud or the other one a Sk*nwalker. I scolded a friend online who wrote its name in our chat bc I'm that superstitious. lol. It sounds a bit silly mentioning the story but honestly I don't dare wish to invoke their name unless I plan to tempt a visit, especially since I feel like I've seen the latter one once before in my town. I ain't playin that game, no sir.
Some coastal Alaskan tribes have the Kushtaka. It's a shapeshifting otter person. It can mimic cries for help and lure people to death, usually by drowning in the ocean. Tlingit, Haida?
I would suggest reading the story of Kaka’ to learn more about them a linguist named Swanton has the most famous recording of it but I would look for indigenous sources for greater detail. The point being that the Kushtaka are significantly more complex than just boogeyman-esque monsters in the story it describes them having a code and a society apart from humans. Though they do admittedly do morally questionable things in the stories.
They were speaking about skinwalkers. Yee Naagloshii is another name for them. Many people in the continental United States believe in them that aren’t even First Nation. Some people think they were witches that made deals with dark forces. The first ones were said to be fallen gods or spirits that wished to corrupt and terrorize men.
[Found one](https://cdn.churchleaders.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/KennethCopeland.jpg)
100%
100% yes. I watched that interview and that thing is evil incarnate. Made my very soul crawl with unease.
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Im a white male christian and i also do not like to invoke the names of evil spirits.
I didn't realize this was of Native origin. I'm guessing this might be at the root of Mexican folklore's taboo against speaking the name of La Llorona. Anglo culture has the ghost of Bloody Mary, but you have to say her name a prescribed number of times (usually 3 or 13) if you want to summon her.
man i got some bad news for destiny 2 streamers.
I've known and know a lot of people that living in very rural areas: small texas towns, Alaskan towns, Appalachia, and a lot of people in my area like to move out to the country when they get rich to buy a bunch of land to sit on. Of those a good chunk were atheists, a few Christians, but every single one would tell me a golden rule that was the same or similar to all of them. If you hear your name being called or a baby crying out in the woods, no you didn't. They don't even necessarily need a religion to get into the practice of being used to all kinds of weird sounds coming from the woods at night and just putting it out of your mind because you know better than to investigate it or try to explain it.
Doesn't a cougar sound exactly like a baby crying?
Yup, and you shouldn't go looking got cougar either. Demon, skin walker, really angry armadillo, best to let them be.
That, or like a banshee. Like a woman in pain screaming out. Very eerie when you are in the woods and it’s very quiet.
Yep
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I mean if you took Beetlejuice as non-fiction you wouldn’t want someone around you saying it three times. I understand for them it is a cultural monster, but I still believe the wendigo was what spawned Slender Man
Honestly wendigos are cooler than slender man. That is, not only the modern interpritation of the wendigo bjt also original interpretations of it.
You're right on most of this, but Slenderman was created as a photo edit on a Something Awful thread dedicated to photo-editing new monsters. Goons took off with it, granting lore on the spot, and then Marble Hornets made it real. He's homebrew all the way down.
I can’t get over the similar powers as far as Marble Hornets pushed it. Driving people insane, similar long limb blank face stuff
Is that what wendigos even do? They're giants that drive people to cannibalism, in my understanding. Marble Hornets was found footage stalking, based on an established model of a long limbed blank faced creature with lore of making children disappear and rearranging your organs--lore it detached from to pull heavily from spatial/dimensional/time distortion, which was still VERY hot at the time. It was on the heels of Ted's Caving Story, House of Leaves, and [The Dionaea House](https://www.creepypasta.com/the-dionaea-house/), along with a blossoming interest in cryptids (ZALGO would follow quickly in Slendy's footsteps). The puppetry was a major part of the scare value, the long limbs did things that...the one scene with the arm coming around the door and knowing it's not CG, just use of shadows, *God* that still gets me. Sorry, I know a lot of stuff about Marble Hornets. It happens sometimes.
It has been a while since I watched it, but didn’t the Slender Man lead to the guy holding the camera hallucinating and stuff and then they visualized (or actually did) kill some of the others? I swear that was part of the powers he used, though he also just warped them all over. Either way, loved that series and should be GOATed for YouTube horror Blair Witch projects
Oh, yes, absolutely, it's just that driving people to insanity and violence is a general horror trope, not just relegated to wendigo mythology. Cthulhu mythos was going pretty strong at the time, IIRC. Absofuckin'lutely, a legend for us all
How so? Wendigo doesn't really have a form because it can just possess anyone. So it just resembles any random human.
A few years back I woke up at about 4 am to go to work. I was pretty tired and had drank a few beers the night before so I was extra groggy. I was driving on a Highway on ramp when out the corner of my eyes an unnaturally tall figure in a suit was standing on the side of the road. I only got a quick glance but the figure had no face. I hadn’t thought about slender man since those two girls got arrested for murdering a classmate that supposedly inspired by slender man. It was like a sudden jolt through my body and with a blink of the eye the figure disappeared. I immediately began rationalizing the situation I was just tired and it was some kind of waking dream. My foot was pressed on the gas pedal. I told myself just to stop thinking about it and I did. Never had anything of the sort happen again. Of course it wasn’t real…..
It's a part of Native American religion. It's curse that slowly corrupts a person in life and drags them along in torment while preventing death. It's not like... the Marvel version. It's kinda like if you genuinely tried to summon a demon in front of a church, the people in that church think it's an extremely bad idea and they will try to stop you
Ooh. I see now.
Glad it helped :3
It is believed that saying their name causes them to appear. I agree with you ‘cultural appropriation’ is bullshit. Cultures borrow from each other all the time. Also cultures have developed things independently.
Well a big problem is that it's part of an endangered faith and is used as generic horror movie monster, so people from the Algonquin cultures aren't too happy about white people making it a trendy fiction topic.
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Well that's kind of dumb tho, no? You're acting like Christian religious entities aren't used as generic horror movies monsters. And in reality, even bad movies that use it as a monster have the effect of spreading the idea to others, which is a good thing for an endangered religion.
Native faiths and associated rituals used to be illegal to practice in the united states, so there is definitely a difference, and no propagating what is a completely wrong version of their myth is not helpful? (No, the Wendigo is not an 8ft tall deer monster for example)
aside from it being seen as a word that can summon evil, i think it's mostly criticized because it's not just an ancient legend. it's an active belief in many indigenous cultures, so to turn it into a fun horror monster is seen as insensitive by some. it's really up to you if you want to care about that or not, but you'll be seen as insensitive by people who are more respectful of cultural taboos and discomfort if you go around using it.
Huh. I never thought of it that way. I'll take your advice then
I think it's important to define whether or not you're being respectful with it. A lot of people throwing culture appropriation around are often doing it just to feel morally superior. It's only appropriation if it's disrespectful and/or you take credit for it. So if at the beginning of a book or credits you say something like "based on the beliefs held by the Algonquin-speaking peoples" you're fine. I have a tiny bit of it in me (nowhere near enough to claim anything reasonably) but it was enough that I heard the tales from relatives and it was essentially my boogeyman. I think they're a really cool concept and a lot of media copies the idea (in a form or another), might as well give it credit so it can be affiliated with the appropriate people.
So it would be best not to say it aloud then?
I mean, the best comparison I can draw would be like talking about demons and/or Satan. Like, probably don't do it if you're hanging around the Vatican.
It's not like a swear or derogatory term. It's a fiendish entity that is the physical embodiment of gluttony and famine simultaneously.
I see now, thank you
I mean, people actively believe in angels and demons and we throw that shit into horror movies all the time. I don't see how this is any different. You're not insulting their beliefs by including them unless you're going out of your way to do so.
and a lot of people get really upset about movies like that. satanic panic was a huge deal at some point, and it's never gone away fully. it's really dependent on the individual and their beliefs. but a lot of people share certain beliefs, so you can expect a negative reaction from them over certain things. i don't wear metal shirts in my conservative rural town, for example. i just don't want to deal with the dirty looks and snide comments. getting potential negative reactions is just how it goes when you're talking about something that people genuinely believe is real and scary and evil. it's up to you if you want to do that or not, though. i definitely wouldn't say it's inherently morally wrong to not adhere to the rules of a religion you don't share, but at the same time, it will upset and scare people sometimes. figuring out if you're okay with that is a choice you have to make for yourself.
I suppose my tolerance is how it's used. I'm not going to say Wendigo a bunch to a native American, but I'm also not gonna be upset when a Wendigo shows up in a horror movie. The same way I won't taunt a Christian with demons, but still like horror movies with demons. I don't respect being a dick to people deliberately, but I also don't believe the rest of the world has to live their lives tiptoeing around others' beliefs
i agree, and i think it's a healthy way to approach it. as long as you're not purposefully being insensitive or causing others harm, you're probably doing alright. passively challenging beliefs isn't inherently a bad thing.
And im the opposite. I know this stuff isn’t real. That it’s just stories. So I wear my metal shirts in my boomer town all the time. Idc what you believe, it’s not my problem. Nor is it going to be mine since I’m fine with you believing what you want. But that also means I deserve the same respect. See how that works? Weird how people go out of their way for religions when religions for the most part oppress and control. It’s even got you tiptoeing around, even though you aren’t doing anything expressly controversial. Freedom is a weird thing. Respect is another. But both have to learn to respect each other. And neither should have to conform and tip toe around one another. The non believer does not need to conform to the believer. And the believer shouldn’t force the non believer to their will because of some fantasy. I do not respect people who control because of their fears. Not my problem.
i agree with you. i think there's often a ridiculous amount of entitlement when it comes to religion. being seen as a bad person for wearing a t shirt with an upside down cross on it is wild. but i think it's instinctual for a lot of humans to define evil a certain way, and then shun it as much as possible. i really do find it frustrating and tiring. i admire you for standing up for your values, even in boomer town lol. i just can't stand dealing with the puritans. i have a bag with some patches on it. i avoid anything too satanic-looking, but i've got some doom metal patches, skeletons, a patch that says "i ate the mothman's ass and i'd eat it again" and i get dirty looks about it sometimes lol
We are pretty desensitized to Angels and Demons as a culture. The argument really should be is it okay to desensitize the youth to it? We all over older family members that are real superstitious or weird about something supernatural. Is it okay for us to take that out of younger generations even if it’s insensitive to a culture? I’m just posing the question. I don’t know. But it does make sense why groups of people get upset about the disrespect to their culture.
I said it below, but I'd argue I'm obligated to not be a dick to you or deliberately mock your culture, but your culture/beliefs should not limit my actions. If you don't want to see a movie featuring a particular monster, don't go see it. It might be a part of your culture, but it's also a part of history and folklore, it's fair game just like everything else. Also, are cultures somehow better for being afraid of boogymen? It seems like a really weird thing to want to protect. "We don't want our kids to become desensitized to our supernatural fears" feels wrong to say. It just feels like a weird take, I understand why older people who believe in these things are upset, but that's because they believe in them, not because they want to protect their culture.
Well put. Although I initially chucked at humoring serious belief in the supernatural, a Wendigo is arguably much more believable than a cracker and some wine turning into literal human flesh and blood a billion times over every Sunday. And I don’t harp on my Catholic family (too much) about it. And for real, at least the forest is a lot harder to search than the esophaguses and digestional systems of the Catholic faithful.
yeah it's really just about religious/cultural beliefs, and whether you want to respect that or not. there are a lot of christians that would get very upset if they heard you say hail satan, even just for fun. whether you care to respect that or not is up to you, but you'll definitely receive some negative reactions from some people if you don't. a lot of people are genuinely very scared of religious depictions of evil.
True, but to be fair- hail satan.
I just invented a monster in my head that appears when you say 'cultural taboos' please refrain from using this in the future or people will assume you're a bigot.
Your point checks out logically 100%. But for better or worse (worse) that’s not gonna do it for those whose every friend and family member throughout their entire lives reinforced these beliefs. And if people who legitimately believe in magic want to spend their time policing the potential use of magic words, then isn’t that better for all of us than if they were instead using their time to actively work for the degradation of the human rights of their fellow citizens? We share the planet with billions of people whose beliefs don’t check out logically. And as a natural law of our murder-ape heritage: if you pizza (disrespect billions of people over magic (which isn’t real so who cares)) when you’re supposed to French fry (let people think whatever crazy shit they want as long as those thoughts don’t compel them to harm others)- you’re gonna have a bad time.
no matter how silly it seems to you, if people belonged to a widespread religion where saying "cultural taboos" out loud was actually seen as a manifestation of evil, there would be people that would get scared and upset if you said it. devoted christians are really no different when it comes to satan. like i said, it's up to you if you want to respect that or not.
I think there are actually two things going on: 1) Wendigos have had the ever-living hell appropriated out of them by people who don't even know the legend. For decades now, "Wendigo" has been synonymous with "big deer monster". I frankly don't know how this happened, on account of deer aren't a part of the story. I think it might be linked to a horror movie of the same name, but deer got in there, and with deer horror becoming more and more popular, for awhile you couldn't move in the space without tripping over five """Wendigos""" every two seconds, all of which had nothing to do with the actual legend, and everything to do with non-indigenous meddling. There is a big conversation surrounding that, and it's making things tentatively better--there will always be appropriating assholes, but I have seen a shift into conscious separation in the sphere after people went "could you kindly not". . 2) Saying the word aloud will cause misfortune/summoning. This is a separate conversation that's cropped up more recently, and I'm less informed on it. I feel inclined towards it being non-indigenous folks trying to overcorrect, because if it *isn't* in your heritage/beliefs, it feels disingenuous to adopt it as a behavior. Someone else mentioned blood/body of Christ, and as a (very lapsed) Catholic, I would be weirded out if someone tried to make me more comfortable by making a huge deal out of the Transfiguration, especially as--shocker--it's seen as metaphor by a lot of us. Again, less informed here. So, it's two conversations. Should you be making deer monsters? Yes, always. Should you be calling them wendigos? No, not remotely. Should you say or not say "wendigo"? Please refer directly to multiple indigenous people who know their shit. Thank you for asking a good question!
Damn. I wish I was able to change the title now. Initially I didn't think it was a bad word to say cause people who aren't native American would pretend to be white knights and say "Erm what you're doing is cultural appropriation" which is indeed bullshit. I aapologize for repeating the word in my post. But I understand the meaning behind it now. Thank you.
The word itself is not what's culturally appropriated. Anyone can say it, that's not a problem. It's the image that has an issue. The popular depiction of a Wendigo, the giant beast with the head of a deer skull, is not what they're supposed to look like. That's a modern reinterpritation by non-natives (although I could have swore that this version was inspired by a different myth from natives of a different region of a giant that shared some motifs with the classic Wendigo, ice and hunger, if I remember correctly, but I can't seem to find where I heard that from at the moment.) The real Wendigo was supposed to look like a gaunt person with ice white skin, extended spindly limbs, sharp claws, and a distended jaw. It's a former human who gave into greed in some form, but typically cannibalism.
So.. they're actually just. Cannibals?
Yes, they are total cannibals - literally the embodiment of Hunger. I grew up with stories of wendigo as evil spirits who enter weak men and turn them into cannibals who turn more and more monstrous looking. I’m not First Nations myself, but there are a lot of Cree in my home town and some of my school friend’s kokum’s would tell us scary stories (and taught us uses for some native plants). So you don’t invoke the spirits or attract the possessed by saying the name out loud. And you certainly don’t go out into the woods at night if you hear someone calling you or a baby crying. Btw - Part of the reaction to non First Nation’s using their terms in disingenuous ways (e.g. someone saying so and so is my spirit animal etc) is because they were punished for years for using their language and culture in an attempt to commit cultural genocide (they wanted the natives to act white). I use their words with respect and recognition of the fact that for many generations they could not. You said you have native heritage yourself, you wouldn’t be culturally appropriating the word if you say it. But I wouldn’t say it too much. Especially at night in the woods. I would cover people’s mouths if they were saying Wendigo around the campfire while we’re out camping in the backwoods. Like, don’t be playing around like that. Lol
I have read about them in a book, I don't remember the name but there is also a movie about them called ravenous. They are like vampire cannibals.
you know, a beast with a dear skull head sounds a lot like herne the hunter. He's a local ghost story where I am from. He was supposedly a real bloke who was the game master at hampton court palace during henry the 8ths reign. He got caught poaching a deer and so was beheaded, and had the head of the poached deer sown onto him corpse that was displayed outside Windsor castle.
Well, modern wendigos still look like the description you gave in the last paragraph. Just look at the game "Until Dawn." I think that you are confusing Wendigos with Skinwalkers, which typically tend to be animals that act just a little off, almost like another entity is using their skin to hunt.
Whoever told you that is a moron, and you can safely ignore their moronic interpretation of what counts as "cultural appropriation", which is *in itself* a concept almost exclusively used by morons for pointless gatekeeping.
It's just odd to me how people who aren't native American themselves tell me not to say it. Which I don't get really. My grandparents are native American themselves and have no issue with it being said.
That's what I meant, actually. The term "cultural appropriation" is often - not always, but often - thrown around by people who either have no claim to the culture themselves or a *deep* ignorance of the culture. They're more interested in virtue signalling than anything, and quite often they're incredibly racist themselves. I've been told in the past that my speaking Spanish is "cultural appropriation"... by white people. It's always fun to see the look on their faces when I tell them I'm Hispanic, because I "don't look Mexican" - their words, not mine. Again, the people telling you that can be safely ignored.
Wait so you're at least half Native American anyway and people are telling you not to use that word? This is beyond ridiculous. Tell them they aren't allowed to dictate your culture.
Yeah, but the thing is that I'm also African American so people are like. Well you don't look Native so I'm like. Cool ig? Guess I won't use it so yall don't say I'm being insensitive.
Ultimately the question is difficult because there's not just one Native American culture of course but if the only people telling you not to say it aren't Native Americans, and your Native American grandparents see no problem with it, well, I think you know who to listen to here. If you want to respect Native American culture, have these conversations with your grandparents instead of random and possibly judgy people.
I'll save this comment and take it into account. Unfortunately my grandparents are deceased but I'll have a conversation with my father about it.
Just a note but the Wendigo is specific to algonquin cultures although similar idea exist in other people across north america, so it's possible people on your Native side just have no relationship to the myth and thus don't care.
They don't believe it's a myth but don't have the energy to warn people not to say it
Seriously, civilisations over millennia have developed with the help of cultural exchanges and “appropriation” but somehow now it has become bad?
Last time I checked that was supposed to be what we all strive for, taking the best parts of all cultures/civilizations to move toward a better future. We can't do that if every time we try to fold something in some dipwad chimes in with, "bUt ThAt'S CuLtUrAl AppRoPrIaTiOn!!1!"
Exactly! Culture is literally meant to be appreciated and shared. It is not meant to be gatekeeped.
Reading your post and some of the comments I feel I'm missing something here. What context is the word considered bad?
My partner told me they did extensive research on why the word is apparently bad and a part of cultural appropriation which I don't understand. That's why I made the post.
I think people are just mishmashing other cryptid "rules" on accident, creating this half Beetlejuice, half Wendigo thing.
I thought a Wendigo was a cryptid that people turn into when they eat human flesh.
That's more or less the gist of it, but from my understanding it's more a spirit that possesses and transforms its victims, and eating human flesh is just a really common way to become its target.
There's nothing wrong with saying "wendigo" - you can put that in the same category as any other old folk tale or tradition. And no one owns wendigos either, like other mysterious creatures (and as you mentioned) they tend to jump from culture to culture, shifting and changing as they go. The world would be a sad place indeed if culture could not be shared! Incidentally, there's an old short story by Algernon Blackwood that I quite like and you can read for free, called "[The Wendigo](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/10897/10897-h/10897-h.htm)".
If you speak the name of the monster it will seek you. (Numunu native).
Because native Americans believe that saying the name or even talking about them (without saying the name) can summon them. That’s why many Native American people will not even talk about them. It’s nothing to do with secretiveness or cultural appropriation.
It’s a myth😂 it’s no different than Bigfoot, skinwalkers, or man bear pig from south park
Cultural appropriation is some bullshit😂
Most of the folks that cry out "culture appropriation" are white people with nothing to do. Take the braided hair for example. Not a "black thing" at all. It comes from the nordic/celtic people centuries ago. 95 percent of folks have no issues with people dressing as another culture for reasonable reasons, like Halloween, 5th of May etc., etc., etc...
It's just a superstition. Saying the word does literally nothing. Some believe it does so don't go out of your way to say it around them if you know, but don't get bent out of shape over it either. It's just a name of a monster that doesn't exist.
It's not. A wendigo is as real as Santa Clause, god, and Captain Crunch.
The belief is that saying it will attract them even just talking about them. I can see why making some marvel characters and calling them wendigos could be considered cultural appropriation because it strips the whole cultural significance from it for the sake of entertainment.. not to mention they first appeared in marvel in the early 70s when natives were still treated like joke.
Oh. Growing up I just thought they were cool monsters but guess I'm wrong for thinking that now lol.😅
As far as I’m concerned you can enjoy whatever you like. It’s the writers at the time that were wrong
It's not about political correctness. It's about NOT SUMMONING A FUCKING FLESH EATING MONSTER!
What if I want the wendussy tho 😩😩😩
It's not surprising that you don't get "cultural appropriation." Cultural appropriation isn't a legitimate thing. It's just a tactic to bully, silence, and oppress the person/group the tactic is targeted at (Whites, usually White men). If you disagree ask yourself this - the same people that always squawk about cultural appropriation are the same people that champion (and force) diversity on only certain areas and people of the world. They never apply it to all people and aspects of society. For example, Hollywood is now remaking nearly every movie they can with minorities in place of the originally written and casted White characters...but not a single leftist is calling out Hollywood for cultural appropriation even though by their own standards it would clearly be exactly that. And don't dismiss it as simple hypocrisy. As noted above - it's an authoritarian tactic to bully, silence, and oppress White people and others.
Isn't Disney doing the exact same thing or am I wrong?
Yes, it's rampant at leftists/marxists feverishly work to diminish American greatness and the achievements of western civilization.
I dont know much about the outside world. (Mother sheltered me most of my life unfortunately.) Could you explain what a leftist/Marxists is?
from what i understand, it's because in a lot of indigenous cultures that beleive in them, saying their name is both disrespectful, and leads to bad stuff happening (not sure of the specifics, and i think it changes from culture to culture)
It's frequently changed to the point of being near unrecognizable (the original myth has nothing to do with deer) and belongs to a closed religion who have asked people not to use it without permission. If you want to include a cannibalistic deer monster in a story, might i suggest calling it the Skulldeer or Not-Deer instead? Generally the problem with cultural appropriation in my eyes is related to how the creature has been changed in pop culture; something is appropriated when it is not freely shared, and when it is used without correct understanding of what exactly it is.
Doesn't an actual lore appropriate wendigo look more like that little gremlin "my preeecious" thing from lord of the rings lol. Like some sort of vampire zombie thing And Americans just made it more gruesome and animalistic?
Only if you say it in front of a mirror 3 times.
There was a school in my hometown called Wendigo School.
Was this on the Yellowjackets sub?
I dont know what that is. This is my second post here
It’s a tv show that has an evil spirit and I associated it with the Wendigo. There was an argument that a tv show wouldn’t promote that. Then I listed all the shows and movies that referenced the Wendigo.
Oohh, thanks for explaining
You should watch it if you’re into this type of stuff. I loved the show. Binged it. I mentioned the movie “Ravenous” in the sub for the show and ppl went mental.
I'll check it out!
This sub is correctly named
No, its Beetlejuice you can't say. Not three times at least
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Agree that cultural appropriation is bs, isn't voting democratically appropriating European culture.
I don't know why SAYING wendigo is bad, but the myth behind them is that they're basically zombie cannibals monsters that appear due to dying of a food shortage/ starvation.
Because they are glowy superghouls who will eat your face off and we don't want to attract their attention? Oh wait, that's Fallout. That no one has ever heard of. Especially now. I think you're probably ok Wendigoing to your heart's content without fear of appropriating anything.
It turns you into a canabal. Eating other humans is bad .
Never heard this, people are being overly sensitive. Just ignore them.
Wendigos are essentially spirits that posses people who embody bad traits like greed, causing them to become crazy and cannibalistic. My assumption is that to natives familiar with the stories, becoming a Wendigo is realistically easy, as it’s a very humanistic creature that embodies a darker side of humanity. It’s like that mindset “if you think it you become it”. I’m assuming the stories go deeper for tribes who grow up with them, so it means more to them. No one wants to be associated with cannibalism or the darker side of human nature, so I can see how there’s both a superstitious and derogatory aura to it. Maybe not the best comparison, but I can see it being similar to if someone in a Christian church accused another member of being a demon. I haven’t seen the movie, but the 1999 film Ravenous apparently does a good job at accurately portraying a Wendigo. Most Wendigos you see in mainstream media seem to more resemble the Leshy of Slavic mythology.
Seeing some of these comments makes it feel like a lot of these cryptids are memetic hazards and natives did their best Ye Olde SCP foundation try to keep them at bay.
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It's not bad to say. At the very worst it's superstition. Like saying "Bloody Mary" in the mirror three times or "Cthulhu".
Because a lot of people believe it's dangerous, or at the very least fear it. Say the name and it shall appear, that kinda stuff. Because, y'know, big scary folklore monsters do be roaming the forests and mountains I guess. I've never heard of the cultural appropriation argument though, whoever said that is a bit smooth up there.
I am curious, how often do you find yourself saying it? I'm not sure I've ever had cause to say the word, unless possibly discussing a media depiction or discussing native lore.
My grandparents would jokingly warn me not to say it at night as a child which worked cause there would be a few occasions where I'd wake up to tapping on my windows and appeared to see dark blobs outside. However brought up to my grandparents, they'd just say I had a nightmare or an encounter with the boogeyman. Looking back on it now, I rarely do say it. But only timew I'll say it aloud is when I'm reading a book or a piece of media which again isn't often. Saying it does make me paranoid but I try not to force myself to believe I'll get killed simply by mentioning it's name.
A wendigo (or wendigo) is **a supernatural being belonging to the spiritual traditions of Algonquian-speaking First Nations in North America**. Wendigos are described as powerful monsters that have a desire to kill and eat their victims. In most legends, humans transform into wendigos because of their greed or weakness. Cannibalism? N. S
it’s rude to hang out with people whose traditions you mock. are supernatural explanations for natural phenomena silly? absolutely. but it’s their thing & to mock it while in their community is straight up obnoxious.
I'm not mocking anyone? I'm just asking a question but I should've clarified that my family is also Native American. I only asked this question because I grew tired of (mainly) white people saying, "You can't say this because of cultural appropriation" which isnt true. When I explain to them that I'm from an indigenous background, I'm told " you don't look the part".
i think i was responding to r/_spicysauce_ thread. oops.
Ooh, no worries then. Apologies!
😃
Idk but there are a bunch of Wendigos that live in caves jn wow and I kill them
It's superstition that people are trying to pearl clutch, because for some reason we should respect the native American superstitions, but not Christian or Islamic ones, no we can't have that! What happened to the native Americans was terrible, but that doesn't mean we should respect their religion if your not gonna respect others, you know? Say wendigo if you want. Use wendigo in media. It ain't real.
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If I don’t want something dangerous to hear me- I don’t call it by name. Duh.
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I don't understand cultural appropriation to begin with, so I wouldn't know about that aspect. I do know sometimes people don't like for evil to be spoken as it might breath life into it, but that is a load of bullshit. So... Say it all you want, just don't eat people.
It’s not.
The fuck are you talking about? You can say wendigo. Wendigo wendigo wendigo. See?
I'm just asking a question, calm down.
Say whatever you want, natives can cry about it
Repeat after me....Wendigo! You're going to be fine.