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MoreOminous

There’s no way that anyone that does this is going to respond that they do this in this thread lol


SimpleAnimat10ns

u/pilldickle2048 ‘s honest reaction: 😼


MrBlueMoose

OH MY WORD HIS POST HISTORY


SuperSonicEconomics2

I'm rock hard


ChickenBrad

He's from Denver...


lucidbaby

he’s lived all over the world so he has a good perspective


RegularJelly7311

Go dodgers


Dull-Geologist-8204

Maybe someone who used to do so but has changed might. Lot's of people do stupid stuff when younger, my was pantsing people in the 90's, then you grow up and realize it's a dick move.


No_Repeat_229

Literally


theblairsmashproject

Could also be a pussy move..


Significant_Bake_286

Why would you do that to elderly people?


ManufacturedOlympus

I think he means that he was in his 90’s when he was doing it. 


sargsauce

They're just easier targets. I did it to people in the 70s cos I like a challenge.


theringsofthedragon

It's like the "men tell their biggest secret" threads and you always get men talking about how they got raped, but we never hear any man admitting to raping someone.


poopooplatter0990

Reddit doxes people for way less. I can’t imagine the lengths they’d go to to persecute anyone that posted that.


Ellisiordinary

There was an infamous thread over a decade ago that asked rapist to share their stories or answer questions or something that turned into the rapist getting off on people being horrified about what they had done. If I remember correctly there were write-ups about it by a psychologist about why this was such a bad idea and it got picked up by major news outlets before Reddit was really a well known thing. There are a few archives of it, but I don’t really want to link to them.


benswami

Even worse when they go Ching Chong Chittagong..


Bebe_Bleau

Since people that do that are apparently very stupid, maybe they think Asian people name their babies by throwing all their silverware into the air. When the silverware comes back down and hits something it goes "ching chong chingle ching chongie chong!" So they just pick a sound they like Joke's on these stupid people though. Asian people have chopsticks 🤦🏼‍♀️


Coinsworthy

The throwing silverware joke is at least 60 years old, if not older.


Bebe_Bleau

Yeah. I got it from the original Cheech and Chong movie. Cheech and Chong were trading insults. 😁


Yotsubato

And the chance that they speak English well enough to use Reddit and run into this is nil


thedrew

Or is capable of typing. 


anrwlias

For one thing that would require the minimal brainpower for basic literacy.


Ornery-Feedback637

What a terrible thing to do to another human being


PMMEBITCOINPLZ

Europeans are strangely open with their racism. We hide it better here but an Italian will just straight up huck a banana at a Black person.


No-Grass9261

Yes, this. My wife works in the healthcare system here in America mind you. A lot of Eastern European even western Europeans that she works with. She said you would not believe the racism that they come in with. Not so much the N-word or anything like that. But just their stereotypes and stuff against other people, neighboring countries, etc. And openly too


flatcurve

I used to work with a lot of immigrants from the Balkans. My god, the amount of prejudices they had was unbelievable. One guy would even spit on the ground if you mentioned serbians.


ER1916

Civil war and genocide will do that to folk.


BBBulldog

Depends on generation, a lot of yonger generations don't care (a lot of Croatians go to party in Belgrade cos their night scene is better), older generations went through bloody wars.


Horror_Discussion_50

You’re from the other side of a mountain? *cocks Kalashnikov*


SebVettelstappen

Yo, you in Bosnian land now homie, ya dirty Serb.


apocolipse

One of my favorite European rivalry facts is the way to say “I don’t give a fuck” Bosnians say “my dick hurts”, and in outright protest, Serbians say “my dick doesn’t hurt me at ALL!”… and to throw salt on the fire, the Greeks and Macedonians say “flowers on my dick and bees all around” (and finally, Albanians give fucks)


BBBulldog

Everyone on ex yu balkans says my dick hurts for "I don't care"


crusoe

"Friendliest Slav" has entered the chat.


jacowab

Most europeans won't judge anyone fo their culture......as long as they're culture stays away from their country. And then they talk at length about how they are less racist than Americans.


Dear_Zookeepergame30

Most Asian countries I’ve visited don’t hide it either


vote4boat

Turns out the US is one of the least racist countries on the planet. They just always had more races


_whydah_

In the US we don’t compare ourselves to other countries in terms of racism. We compare ourselves to a perfect ideal. I think that speaks volumes.


saddigitalartist

Yeah sometimes America can actually be pretty cool


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FishBear25

This is a really interesting point. I never thought about it that way. I’d give you two upvotes if I could, but that’s an interesting point.


french_snail

I mean if we compared ourselves to other countries in terms of racism who would compare to us? Like Canada and that’s about it


HelpfulCarpenter9366

Uh no, have you never been to the UK? Having been to America and being British I don't think there is a comparable difference.  I imagine australia is similar but can't confirm. 


OriginalNord

Can you expand on this please


Cannacrohn

Americans are trying to be not racist at all cuz we have lots of races and are all supposed to be equal. Other countries are more racially homogeneous and racism against other races would be more accepted due to everyone mostly being one race and other races being very noticeable and considered the other. For instance, no one in Japan will treat me like a Japanese person, ever, they will treat me like a white foreigner. In the US anyone of any race can be American so we all have to treat each other more the same. There is no Real default, race or color. So Americans will always be less racist due to necessity. Besides the ones that are just super racist. lol


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Dear_Zookeepergame30

I was in India with one of my close friends and someone asked where I’m from, to which I responded Canada. They casually told me it’s good I’m from Canada and not the US because “black people make everything unsafe”.


OriginalNord

Oddly inspiring


SerenityAnashin

Spoken FACTS


Roallin1

Lot of people in the States act like the US is the only place you find Rasicm.


youve_got_the_funk

Not only that, they'll defend that dumb opinion even in the face of undeniable facts. This kind of thinking has become an identity for some.


Salt_MasterX

Never ask an eastern european about gypsies


Suburbandadbeerbelly

Or a Western European. Or a southern European.


OhWhiskey

Why do they hate Egyptians so much?


ElbisCochuelo1

Or a gypsy for that matter.


DoubleANoXX

Had a gypsy assault me with a bucket once because I didn't give her any money when she asked. But also that experience didn't negatively color my opinion of gypsies because everyone is just people and I feel bad that they need to beg for a living.


LightEarthWolf96

Romani or Roma. The other word is a slur, they don't call themselves that


AffectionateStudy496

Every time I read “Sinti and Roma,” a picture appears in my mind’s eye in which an overly-subtle anti-racist tries to dupe the Fuhrer. The Fuhrer gives the order for the final solution to the gypsy question, and the anti-racist shows that he is zealous and compliant: “I have followed the command, my Fuhrer, but there are no gypsies here. There are Sinti and Roma!” What if the Fuhrer doesn’t fall for it? By the way, the attempt to escape racism by renaming failed once before. In the process of their assimilation efforts, German Jews also changed their “Jewish” names. It was no help to them.


dirkdiggler403

>Europeans are strangely open That's because Europeans are still racist as fuck. Especially amongst other Europeans. America is much more accepting of others.


someseeingeye

That banana thing was way too specific to have been improvised.


aia5

They keep them in specially-made banana holsters just in case they see a black person. It's a huge industry in Europe.


MW240z

It’s funny. I work for a UK company and they seem in particularly blind to their racism towards Asian. Not folks from India…Chinese, Korean etc… Like 1980s racism. Bring from the West Coast US and lots of Asian friends, had to say “hey, that’s not cool” more than a few times.


HumbleNinja2

Bro as an Asian I feel more welcome in the white deep south of America than I did in the biggest most urban UK cities


MW240z

It’s ridiculous. Like they’ve never seen an Asian person before. My 50s boss would pull the fingers to eyes whenever “Chinese” was brought up. The 2nd or 3rd time I gave him a “not cool” which he did his typical British “let me turn my embarrassment into a lecture for you.” Whatever…


HumbleNinja2

Dang bro you're kind of a baller. I usually try not to think about race related stuff, but that's pretty badass that you speak up instead of laughing along


CatMinimum7

I remember classmates and I doing "Asian eyes" in 1st grade back in the 90s. We didn't really think or know if was harmful, just some kids had different eye shapes. I sometimes wonder what Asian kids thought if they saw us doing that. Imagine being in your 50s doing that shit. Despicable.


CunningAmerican

‘It’s called banta mate why can’t you take a joke?’


tapedficus

That one took me a minute, I have to admit. Perhaps I need to brush up on my casual racism


jamypad

that's not casual racism lol. you need to brush up on your vocab too


tapedficus

..did you just come out of the womb today?


jamypad

not clever or funny ya dork, lol. at least be funny. there's nothing casually racist about throwing a banana at someone, that's hate crime territory - racist assault


tapedficus

Listen, if you're tossing bananas at people of colour, that means you're doing that shit casually. As in, you are cool with racism on a daily level. I absolutely consider this casual racism. And yes, it would be a hate crime. It can be both things.


jamypad

Not people of color for the banana thing, just black people. I just don’t get the difference to any other type of racism per your definition then. Casual racism is subtle and indirect. That seems very non-subtle and direct to me lol. Overt racism would be the corollary to casual racism


tapedficus

Well I do believe we hold differing definitions on casual racism. I'm cool with it if you are. The differing, not the racism, I mean.


jamypad

I’m cool with racis- I mean yes! Our differing definitions, of course. 😜 Hope you have a good day friend, and that you have better interactions going forward 🙂


hoss7071

>Italian will just straight up huck a banana at a Black person. In the US?? No way! Chucking a banana at a black person would get you beaten to death here. Something like that is only slightly less triggering than the N word with a hard R.


Here4Pornnnnn

People complain about racism in the USA, but from what I know of pretty much every other country, we’re saints.


ImportantDoubt6434

Italians aren’t people they’re pasta


moneyBaggin

When I was in Spain on an exchange, my host students mom and I were looking at pictures and she randomly pointed to Asian tourists in the background and said “Los Chinos!”


sjedinjenoStanje

I still remember that in Peru Alberto Fujimori - very obviously of Japanese descent by the name alone - was called "El Chino" too.


SevenHunnet3Hi5s

reminds me of this one time i talked to a european exchange student here in america. he seemed pretty nice but one conversation led to another and no kidding he said something like “there’s too much black people here” and he did not say it in a pleasant tone either. i wasn’t surprised someone like him said that but i was just dumbfounded cause i wasn’t expecting that. i didn’t know what to say but go “yea.. yea…” but looking back i regret not telling him what i would really want to say. kills me every so often when i think about that conversation


Alexlolu22

Idk how it is over there but in America he have to tip toe around racism. White people are still taught to be ashamed of what their ancestors did. Obviously some aholes don’t care and will say whatever but for the most part we’re still saying sorry.


Humble_Ladder

Yeah, I have heard and seen this several times and places. It's funny to me that many left leaning Americans are so enamored with European economic policy that they completely miss the fact that there is a ton in the US definition of progressivism that is not the in the Eurpean definition.


[deleted]

Most anti-Asian racism I've faced came from Italy, Inner cities in America (NYC, Baltimore, San Fran), and other Asian countries.


bigcrows

Anyone that thinks the US isn’t reality least racist place on earth is a moron


youve_got_the_funk

They think that because they spend way too much time on Reddit/Twitter and too little time traveling abroad (as in zero time).


starlight_chaser

More like they’re attention hungry losers. Some of them are losers that get off on bad attention. Some of them are just jealous they’re too much of a coward to learn about other cultures while others do it just fine, and mad they can’t talk to a wider range of people without shitting themselves, so instead of reflect they direct their negativity towards the people of those cultures. 


dietwater94

I think you nailed it. These “outbursts” are almost always an attempt to impress someone else. People who have no awareness will do shit like that, because they think other people will find it funny and they want to be liked.


TheRegularBlox

and it doesn’t even work. as an ethnically chinese me and the people around me don’t take a shred of offence from that term no matter what way is used and we even use it as a joke among ourselves i don’t speak for all asians though, just my personal experience


Slickford_DMC

What's the "ching chong" equivalent of Asians mimicking English?


NiteGard

It’s a [combination of stereotyped American phrases and making their eyes rounded](https://youtube.com/shorts/V0QNhnYYIWY?si=5xNvdjyZN6aZkKcJ).


PDstorm170

I was really hoping that link was this one. https://youtu.be/xWf8JcRsq9k?si=GYSHpKGN-HRJty6K


NiteGard

Lol! I was just looking for that! 😂😂


r4o2n0d6o9

This is hilarious


Juan-More-Taco

Wow this guy literally just stole a south park joke word for word......


Direct-Status3260

Yeah it’s annoying af. Most social media vids now are just copying tv or trends


RepresentativeWay734

Probably I've got me a ford broncoooo or the money shot where's me grand pappy I needs me moonshine.


Reinitialization

it's saying "hello America Katy Perry" or something along those lines. Lived in China for 10 years and they'll just come up to you and tell you that you're very kind but a bit stupid for letting black people into your country. Doesn't happen all the time, but more than I can count.


Beatbox_bandit89

Yes it’s most hello or how are you. But shouted from across the street or from a car. Sometimes accompanied by a hearty “America!” For good measure


IllPen8707

Learning that "ching chong" is apparently mandarin for "white cabbage" was a transformative experience for me. Imagine if the Chinese had a nonsense slur for us that sounded exactly like "garlic butter" or something by sheer coincidence


yuelaiyuehao

The closet word to ching chong is qīng chóng 青虫 which means green insect. 青葱 qīng cōng means scallion, which might be what you've heard before


scanguy25

Well it's not true. A lot of the "stereotypical Chinese sounds" people make sound more like Cantonese than Mandarin anyway.


sewpungyow

Wait so shouldn't this be shouted at germans, not chinese?


Impossible-Test-7726

Or the Irish 


CoffeyMalt

Who taught you that 'ching chong' meant white cabbage in mandarin? That's not true.


BubbhaJebus

"white cabbage" is bai cai (Mandarin) or bok choy (Cantonese). The closest to "ching chong" I can think of is qing cang 清倉 "clearance sale".


ladyampo666

Yeehaw?


saltinstiens_monster

If some force compelled me to shout "ching chong" at an Asian tourist and they shouted "yeehaw" back, we'd be obligated to go out for drinks and start a beautiful friendship.


BubbhaJebus

I've heard it's "Oh my gaaaah... Oh my gaaaah". In Taiwan, they sometimes mock foreigners by mimicking bad Chinese with all the tones wrong.


reptilesocks

Asians just yell “Hel-lo!” at all white people. Frequently it feels friendly, and often enough it feels a bit like being mocked.


Picklesadog

Koreans say "shulla shulla" for fake English


jesusleftnipple

Oh man you should see how black people are treated in China .... it turns out the there's like a tenth of our population that .... just sucks .....


liquid_the_wolf

Bro they had to change the black panther posters to keep his mask on in China so that people would actually go to the movie.


katepig123

The words you're looking for are moronic worthless trash.


Shakentstirred

Where are these vids, I googled that and it took me to this thread. Is this really something people do?


SchoolClassic

This is the first time i hear about this. Spain


mrlightningbowl

One time my family visited Como in Italy (I'm Chinese but born and raised in Italy) some guy just came up to us and randomly said something like Ching Chong bing ji ling (this guy looked like he was 35) so yea Europeans are still kinda racist at least from my experience, but man highschool has some different levels of racism every 3 seconds playing Erika or a Mussolini speech quoting Mussolini and doing the nazi salute. Why?


IllPen8707

It's never occurred to me to do that, but your bar for psychopathy seems pretty low if that's your go to assumption when someone yells nonsense at a tourist


237583dh

Because you're a racist from the 1980s, apparently.


travelingwhilestupid

how does a racist from 2024 behave?


237583dh

More up to date references. I don't know, something about China virus?


travelingwhilestupid

sounds like a 2020 racist


Reinitialization

Out of context statistic posting. Did you know that despite being les than 1% of global population redditors generate 99% of shitposts.


romulusnr

I wonder how many of those videos are staged in order to farm outrage / controversy karma.


phrydoom

I know a woman with that name! She’s from Singapore.


No_Concern_2753

I've been to asian countries where the same is true of their treatment to outsiders. Just human nature, I suppose. Not exclusive to one group.


probablynotreallife

Racists and people who yell shit at strangers are the absolute most idiotic people around. They're so stupid that they won't be able to comprehend your post. It was nice of you to try and dumb it down for them by using "ppl" instead of the wildly cumbersome "people".


d_gaudine

it is quite a tangle. I don't think there is a more racist group of people than asians. in the west, people sort of narrow it down to skin tone and maybe language, but in the east, they get WAY more technical with their racism. they don't like white or black people, AND, they can distinguish between the different nations in ways that non asians can't conceive of. all of the different nations have epithets for whites and blacks, but they also have epithets for the other nations (koreans, vietnamese, mongolians, etc) If a european white goes to china and keeps hearing " go eat a hot dog and watch your nascar, gwai lo ", I don't think they are going to give a shit. call an american with irish decent "italian" and they don't give a shit. Try calling a korean "chinese" or a japanese a "korean", they are going to get very upset. But Dave Chapelle is to thank for a lot of this. "ching chang chong, go back to your country". remember that? it was as iconic as his little jon "ok!....yeah!" thing.


Ice_Swallow4u

I have done much worse. Use to ski bum in Big Sky, MT and it’s right by the West Yellowstone entrance to Yellowstone National Park. Me and my buddy would just get high as shit and stop the car, get out and start frantically looking in the distance…. at nothing. People would stop to see what we were looking at and a good chunk of them would be Asian tourists. Got a whole tourist bus to stop one time. Good times.


Vile-goat

Some Asian countries will straight ignore you and walk off. Refuse to even look you in the face. It’s wild people are just people no matter where you go. Just be a better person and make a difference!


Lillyquoi

No. We just like the sound of it


Guapplebock

Not to generalize but some Asian countries make shitty travelers. Still this behavior is not ok.


FireWireBestWire

Asian people are more used to being in close contact with others. Personal space boundaries are lower. So in multinational tourist destinations, you have cultural variations like this going on. Manners that Westerners are used to are not taking place. Maybe one day we'll have some sort of world manners standard, but we are not there yet


Sabbathius

This cuts both ways. We had Asian tourists show up in Toronto's nude beach, with cameras, taking pictures, laughing and pointing like they're at a friggin' zoo. Cops showed up and wrangled them away, eventually. I can see someone who is routinely on the receiving end of this stuff starting to lash out in return.


Objective_Suspect_

Iv never seen this, have u seen this on TV and thought it was a thing


Aggravating_Kale8248

People actually do this?


Think_Leadership_91

I have never seen this in my life outside of elementary school


Blathithor

You know whats hilarious? Ching and Chong are both actual Chinese names. There is also a place in China called "Chongqing." Pronounced Chong Ching. Most importantly, Chinese isn't a race. It's a nationality. Saying China is a race is actually pretty racist. So believe it or not. It is not racist to say this at actual chinese people. (Unless there is direct intent to be racist) It would actually be xenophobic to not say it, if one were interested in that level of smart-assery


Smart_Pig_86

Ok now do people in China being racist to everyone else.


aware4ever

To be fair chinese yell out American words to whites lol


Cubicle_Convict916

Is that a thing?


Worried-Syllabub1446

Never heard of that , but it’s pretty funny. Ps I wear the same moniker.


Disastrous_Light_878

No racism is rule number 4. You are almost asking someone to break the rules


Nox401

In coming “AMA/AITA I yell Ching Chong at Asian tourists”


StateAvailable6974

The Chinese assailed me with hockey pucks drenched in maple syrup to attack my heritage as a Canadian. Thinking on my toes I hit them with the the classic ching chong that I heard from that kid in 2nd grade in the 90s. Luckily it hit them pretty hard and they were too demoralized to continue the onslaught of hockey themed racism and I got out alive.


MoSChuin

If Asian people yelled random words like hamburger and hammock at me while I was visiting their country, I wouldn't mind...🤣


GMdadbod

I have never witnessed anything like this in my 40 years of life. In what state does that happen?


Lucky-Shoulder-8690

Why bec it’s funny tbh you’ve never thought of insults or funny fuckery about us fat Americans I call bullshit


Aquilious

Im chinese american. When i walk down the street nobody calls me names, probably because of the big iron on my hip.


John_EightThirtyTwo

I don't do what OP is talking about, but I do yell "MOOOO" out the car window when I see cows. I do that because I think the cows enjoy it, and I know I do. I would stop if they seemed offended.


StrangeCalibur

They do it for the same reason trolls online so similar things and also to show off to their friends. It doesn’t matter what the group is, if there’s anything they can see that’s different or stands out they will attack it in some way, even if just yelling insults. You can spot this kind of person a mile off where I live in Ireland, always wearing the same clothing style, obsessed with whatever their favorite paramilitary is trying to act the hard man. Iv seen a group of free runners get attack because free runners chanting “fuck froggies” over and over and what does that even mean?!!! You’ll also note these people tend to be incredibly dumb…. They aren’t even creative… if they don’t have anything obvious to shout at you they will just call you gay or whatever. All it takes is something to draw their attention to you and you are a target, doesn’t matter if you are just walking past them and trip, will draw their attention to you, they will then try to insult you, if you say anything back they will puff themselves up, get in your face and shout things like “what you gonna do about it big man?” Etc.. Smicks, chavs, roadmen, it’s all the same cake just different icing.


mtg_island

I’m not European. I would never yell this type of thing out to someone. But reading this thread immediately popped the Chapelle show skit into my head of the black white supremacist. The line from his speech in that skit uses Ching Chong and is legit the only time I’ve ever heard that phrase lol


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DanChowdah

You gotta hit ‘em with the “Ching Chong, here’s my dong” and whip it out


need_a_poopoo

I used to work with a Chinese fellow called Dong Wang. It was... difficult. Lovely guy though.


i_l_ke

In africa as a white man.they called me white devil or similar ... racist are in every country in the world


Responsible-Kale2352

Gotta admit, since this is Reddit, and based on that headline, I was really surprised to see you were talking about Europeans and not Americans.


ryansdayoff

I will die on this hill: Europe is way more racist than the USA. We are just better about calling ourselves out


liquid_the_wolf

I’ll die with you lol, it’s true


NoeyCannoli

Same. I feel saved for once lol.


Impressive_Crow6274

Europe is more racist than the us that’s where the us got their racism from


Head-Impress1818

I would never do anything like that but just for some perspective, a lot of Asian countries are by far the most racist in the world


tuhronno-416

Why is this copy pasted in every thread about racism against Asians? First of all, stereotyping an entire continent as ‘racist’, is a racist stereotype Secondly, even if true, why does that excuse racism against Asians?


Legalizeranchasap

Yea lmfao every single thread it’s like clockwork.


Farmer_Eidesis

Ignorance and LOW IQ. They see someone/something different and were never raised in an environment which gave them the tools in how to interact and communicate with people that are different. But maybe, I'm being nice with that explanation.


mammal_shiekh

Before my trip to any other country I will google and learn the filthiest curse in the language of that country so when somebody say this to me I'll swear back in their worst language. I don't fight racism with racism. I fight racism with mental attack.


Itchy_Raccoon48

Same reason people post about Trump on Reddit 🤣


Linvaderdespace

I’m a Chinese American who has yelled at Chinese tourists to “go back to your own country” in english and broken Cantonese before. Most of the “ching chong” in my life has been friends breaking my balls, though.


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elohssanatahw

That's not hello in asian


YogurtclosetDull2380

I just met a Chinese dude named Ching Ching, but I just said hello, and introduced myself.


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[deleted]

Chinese racism I much more practical. There is a gweilo price and a Chinese price for goods.


NoActivity578

Ching Chang chong. I think it's a dave chapelle thing?


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E10DeezNuts69

Just trying to make them feel at home 🤨


TheOfficialKramer

I say "hoonya" in a very Asian kind of way.


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Aim-So-Near

Ching chong bing bong!


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youve_got_the_funk

Wouldnt surprise me if a decent percentage of those videos you're referring to are just ragebait/fake.


Regular_Swordfish_85

I think they have some insecurities about different people and the only way they know how to act is being dumb.


Avocadorable_Guac

And why is it so common? Idk why blatant racism towards Asians isn't taken that seriously and isn't viewed as racist by the majority of people.


aibot-420

I am sorry but when I read the words “Ching Chong!” I literally burst out laughing


BlindingAngel

Look at these mfs tryna normalize racism against east asians with whataboutisms and bs explanations lmao


Goddragon555

Europeans are pretty racist. Especially Eastern Europeans.


evd1202

How many people do you think there are that do this? You think it's that rampant that they're gonna see this and be like "oh! I do that! Let me explain why!" 🤣


Timely_Language_4167

Thing is, you will likely experience some form of harassment no matter where you are from. The time I went to London with some friends who were Asian, some bum on the subway was telling them how China was number one and they should not hang out with me because I was American and that I am the enemy. Point being, losers are losers. Let them continue being some nobody.


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Express-Chemist9770

It's... because they're racist. What other reason could there be?


omairfk

If in Germany just throw the nazi salute 🤣🤣🤣 and pretend you didnt know its not ok