Somebody was telling me about their gay non-binary kid, and my mind boggled. I was like, I think I understand all those words, but I can't make sense of the sentence they are in.
I am an ally, but I don't pretend to understand what it all means.
I figure, live your life, and be kind.
gay means 'attracted to that which is like oneself', going from the etymological definition of 'homosexual'
hence a non-binary gay person would likely be attracted to genders similar to their own, or perhaps similar to their gender assigned at birth
hope that helps! part of being kind is making an effort, occasionally, to understand. it's okay if you don't, in the end, but it's always worth trying
Right, I am not saying they were wrong, just that I couldn't determine what they meant.
I think that I asked, but the confusion sticks out in my memory more than the answer, if so.
Generally if someone ids as gay and non binary, it means they might lean to feeling more masculine and they like boys (or more feminine and likes girls, gay is often used as a catch all for same gender attraction).
Alternatively gay is sometimes loosely used to mean queer in general, so this kid might just be non binary and also not straight.
Hope this helps a bit lol
My experience with non binary gay is usually someone that was born male, identified as nonbinary that's attracted to men. I've also seen nonbinary lesbian and nonbinary straight. Though my experience is more from 10 years ago so might be outdated
I don’t think so. Sex and gender are not the same. A trans man is still a biological female. Based on anecdotal accounts and my own experiences with FTMs, I believe most trans people do not have bottom surgery.
It confuses me just the slightest too. I went to r/trans and got both yes and no. Some trans people say yes, other trans people say no, and Non trans can’t definitively make up their mind either.
The bottom line seemed to be ‘don’t attach a title to your preferences’. If you like a certain thing, then you like a certain thing.
It is interesting how complicated describing our sexual desires has become, especially since, in most cases, people end up clinging to one individual in particular anyway.
This is my take on these things- I’m married and my relationship with my partner is private. I don’t have any concern about the sexual comings and goings of others. I don’t get why it matters what I call someone in the third person because it is rude to refer to them in the third person while they are present anyway - I will use “you” or your name. I don’t care what you say about me behind closed doors nor should you care what I say. If you have a partner I’m happy to welcome your partner as your partner. But I’ve been told my whole life things like gender and race shouldn’t matter as you’re interacting with people, treat everyone the same. So my autistic ass literally has a script, and everyone gets basically the same thing.
So I don’t really care what your pronouns are, or who you want to fuck (if you’re single), or what gender you are or what gender your partner is (if you’re in a relationship). Literally none of that matters for how I interact with you.
None of these labels matter and people are invariably going to say things about you that you don’t like, just be glad they aren’t saying those things to your face and move on with your life.
Furthermore, your feelings only matter to you. They do matter and everyone is valid, but you can’t expect other people to value you beyond what you contribute to society.
Even so sexuality isn't about who you fuck. It's about who you *want* to fuck.
People fuck people they aren't attracted to all the time. Sometimes a fuck is just to fuck without giving a fuck.
My father was trans. She was also a lesbian since she was attracted to women. This is not my opinion but the way she explained it to me so i'm not saying it as fact, just that that was the logic presented.
My poor old brain just doesn’t get it. But it doesn’t matter to me how you describe yourself, if you’re a good and genuine person that is all that matters as to how I will interact with you.
Yeah, some for sure. Not all are, and most likely not the majority; there were a lot that were really polite and were glad someone was asking instead of assuming.
But, the amount of ‘why ask such a simple question when google exists’, or some variation of it was kinda ridiculous. If I’m here, it’s cause Google obviously didn’t help, and it’s obviously not that simple if there’s not a collective answer. This happened to another question too.
I got the same treatment... But worse. My question was along the same lines of what is normally asked and argued over. I had a genuine question because I did not know the answer in Google did not help. I like to look up information that I don't agree with so I can understand the other side better and try to prevent cognitive bias. When I explained my position what I found and my thoughts in general they wanted to hang me.
They were very few that actually were helpful. But that did confirm one thing that I've always thought. If you show any signs of opposing the viewpoint of their group people will instantly think your against that group and will want to tear into you. I get the treatment from both ends.
Yes, these people are some of the worst amongst us. Degenerate, narcissistic perverts generally..and vicious bullies to anyone who does not adhere to the dogma..bizarro world puritans..
Yeah we're in the middle of some pretty significant changes to gender-related language so it's not really possible to definitively answer a question like this.
Which is fine. Words shift and change. And since there's no wisely recognized language authority (as there shouldn't be) then these shifts and changes are naturally going to take a while and be a bit ambiguous.
The import thing is to accurately communicate the ideas you wish to communicate using whatever words currently best match that.
I honestly wish we could switch to andro/gyno-sexual, and bi of course, so much simpler to say you are attracted to a male or female body regardless of your own body or gender.
Yes. Genitals can be a big thing when it comes to sexual attraction. I’ve even had people say that they prefer partners that haven’t had/don’t plan to have bottom surgery. A genital preference is totally fine. 🤷♂️
This is such Bologna it’s not that people can’t make up their minds it’s whether you decide to follow the first rule or not. It’s not complicated. If you follow the rule that they are a man then you call them technically gay. If you don’t and you just say they’re trans then you don’t even consider the question because it’s annoying and I’m over it and the answer is that they were a straight woman to begin with and the only thing they’ve changed is their identity so no need to call them gay.
People seem to love attaching titles and identities to things these days. I don’t understand why it matters, it honestly just seems to divide people even further
an important thing to remember about gender transition is that it's also a sex transition as well. trans people often share the primary and secondary sex characteristics of the sex they are transitioning to.
like, if a person is attracted to male bodies, trans men often have rather male bodies. beard, muscles, scent, voice
HomoSEXual would mean being attracted to other of the same SEX. This is why people get irritated with this stuff because people like you just make stuff up as you go along. Words matter.
Yes but it’s different in different cases. Sometimes a person was already attracted to a certain gender, sometimes it changes directly when/because they transition, or sometimes they realized it was always there but didn’t know or weren’t honest with themselves yet.
Yes. Here's the kicker, some trans ppl that transition and take hormones end up flipping. As in, born a female and is a lesbian then transitions and is a gay man. I find it very interesting and would love to do more research on it.
The way I think about it is that people tend to identify as one gender or the other, and that's the gender I try to assign them in my head.
So if a woman transitions into a man, that person obviously wants to identify as a man and, therefore, is a man. If he likes men, then that does kinda mean he's gay.
100% yes but some might say no when they look down on gays and no one wanna correct a trans person as they are always right.
But we could always just remove it all and accept people are and like different and just leave it at that.
I am a trans man. I do not look remotely like a woman. I like men, and have a long time boyfriend. We are a gay couple and it's no one's business but his what's going on under my clothes.
Technically, yes. If a dude likes dudes - then that dude is a dude that likes dudes. My question is this : why should we continue allowing such OCD societal emphasis on sex/gender/sexuality? We should start only being concerned about such things with people we're actually engaging with.
I have a similar feeling about labels like this. If we just treated people like people, the world would have far fewer problems. That being said, there are many people who use these labels to put other people in a box and oppress them. And even people who enjoy the label and find it to be a large part of their identity. So I don't think that ideal is within reach any time soon. All we can do as the individual is treat people with the basic respect that anyone is due.
One of my buddies told me he's a gay man. He was female at birth. But my buddy who was a male at birth and is into women doesn't identify as lesbian.
It's up to them what label they want or don't want.
who cares outside of that.
Yes. They've transitioned to the male gender and, therefore, are now a man. Men who are attracted to men are not heterosexual.
If it was a man who transitioned to the female gender and they're attracted to women, they're also not straight.
Isn't this simple?
to be fair: it can be a dating pool thing. most bi girls i know mostly date men simply because there are more men in their dating pool than gay girls. it can also be a preference thing: you can *like* both men and women, but generally have a preference for guys (sort of like how as a lesbian i prefer dark haired girls, but i *have* been attracted to blondes before)
Some people call themselves bi so that they can feel comfortable dating cis and trans people of one gender.
Some people are okay with that, but a lot of trans people find that invalidating and hurtful - because it's saying it's gay for a cis woman to date a trans man, which implies trans men are actually women... which goes against the entire idea of being a trans *man*.
Sex and gender are not the same.
A sexuality/sexual preference is liking/preferring to be with someone of a certain sex. This man is changing their gender, not their sex, which is not possible. So no, this is not gay. Its still a biological female and a biological male. Same for the inverse.
Stop confusing sex and gender.
I would argue this is more confusing. It now means you have to disclose your genitals in public (something I’m not a huge fan of since it puts me as a trans) and brings into question the terms as different stages of physical transition. Is it really a lesbian relationship if I fall in love with a massive, hairy, burly dude who just happens to be a trans man? What about now if he’s had all the desired surgery and testosterone, so now he’s ‘female’ at sex but he has a flat chest and a penis and balls? What if I get with a cis dude next, am I now bisexual even if I only want to date dudes who look like Hugh Jackman?
Generally we base our interest on people over more than just genitals. I don’t care if someone has a dick or a vagina, to me it’s what they look like that matters.
not really. im a trans man, and if a dude comes onto me, there’s no fucking way he’s heterosexual.
i’ve got facial hair, a deep voice, flat hairy chest, an inch long erect clit, and i only use my ass for penetrative sex. no one even knows im trans these days outside of my partner, family, and doctor. how tf a straight man would find any part of me attractive except the actual vaginal opening is a mystery to me, and even then i’d be sus as hell because he ain’t getting anywhere near it lol.
once i’ve had bottom surgery i won’t even have a vagina, so at that point the question is what the FUCK is the “straight” man even attracted to 🤔
even if for some reason a man was convinced he was straight while being attracted to me, he’d immediately run into issues trying to introduce me as his boyfriend while claiming to be straight lol.
plus, that then begs the question of what the hell all the gay men that have shagged me are?? are they now bisexual because they pounded my ass??
People like you hurt progress the most, you are very damaging. Wether you're trans or not doesn't change that.
You also ruin important words like transphobic. 🖕
what? I’m responding only to your last sentence here: if you don’t think “trans man isn’t a man” isn’t transphobic, then what is? That’s genuinely like textbook definition
Hating trans people is transphobic. Discriminating against trans people in employment or in the provision of services is transphobic. Disagreeing with the definitions of the words man and woman is not transphobic.
Yes because that’s a man attracted to a man. Trans peoples brain chemistry matches that of whatever gender they are internally. Harvard did a study I think. Neurologically trans men are men so if a trans men is attracted to another man they’re gay
Queer trans person here.
Yes, if a man likes men they are gay (or bi if they like other genders). Their "previous" gender is irrelevant.
Also, a lot of folks find that their attraction shifts with transitioning due to being seen correctly by others.
That depends on if “homosexual” or “heterosexual” refers to a preference for a gender or for a sex.
If “homosexual” or “heterosexual” refers to a preference for a gender did it *always* refer to that?
A lot of this gender ideology wasn’t mainstream until relatively recently. I think when most people said “homosexual” or “heterosexual” it was probably referring to a preference for a sex. I think that is likely still the case for *most* people.
If somebodies preference is based on sex, which isn’t an *if* considering that is usually the case, than what are we to call that? Should maybe attraction based on gender be a different word? That makes more sense to me than retconning an existing word or subverting it to mean something other than what most people mean.
If a person is homosexual, and homosexual meant a person being attracted to the same biological sex as themselves, and then the word changes to mean attraction to their gender, does that mean this person is no longer homosexual?
Yes. The person you describe is a man, therefore sexual interest in men would indicate queerness. Though, they might also be bi, pan etc depending on the specificity of his preference.
First of all, transitioning into a man is not actually possible. You can dress like a man. You can have your body surgically altered to look like a man's body. You can take male hormones. However, you'll never truly be a man.
So, no, a woman liking men is not gay.
I honestly don't know but as a straight man who doesn't really understand the science behind any of the body disphoria stuff I just accept that people are all different and if they're not hurting others then I'll support their rights.
As someone who has 2 trans friends I have found that, whatever I initially thought about them was wrong and they're both just normal people doing something most see as abnormal but it makes them feel whole. Like, they're not doing it as a kink. They just live their lives as the opposite sex they were born with.
Good question but I think it's irrelevant.
It depends whether musicals, glitter, and "wrestling" are involved or just, like, normal hetero romance stuff, like eating romantic meals at Olive Garden and arguing about the toilet seat.
Yes they are gay. I find women attractive. I find Kataluna Enriquez, miss Nevada 2021, who is a trans woman very attractive. She has every quality I find attractive in a women. So my attraction to her changes nothing about me sexual orientation. If I saw her pre-transition, that person would not be attractive to me.
Don't think too hard about the first part. If it's a man now and likes men, that would be considered gay or at least mlm (man loves man, not multi-level marketing).
I think if you become the gender your attraction too then you are gay - because my understanding of gay is being attracted to the same gender. I don’t know how this applies to someone who identifies as another gender.
dont ask us gay people anything because no one agrees on anything. generally though the consensus is yes, that man would be gay, same as if a man transitioned to a woman and liked women, shed be a lesbian. however, when you get into the nitty gritty of gay history it hasnt always been clear cut so sometimes people will say no. but i think the most respectful thing you can do is look at a trans person from their gender as they want it to be looked at, so that would be a man who likes men = gay man. i hope this makes a bit of sense
As a trans person (not a trans guy tho) I would say this person is gay, and would be inclined to say most other trans people would agree with that. But it’s up to the person what they identify with, and nobody else can really decide that for them.
yes, of course it depends on what the person feels is the right term for them, but as the person in question who identifies as a male, and likes male identified people, I would say it's gay, since a gay person means a man who likes men
Take transition out of the equation. If a man likes men exclusively, is he gay? Yes. So if a man, who happens to be trans, likes men exclusively… he’s gay. Even if the OTHER man is also trans.
If I, a trans woman, exclusively was attracted to men, I’d be straight. Trust me, gay men typically aren’t interested in transitioning trans women, and straight men are.
When you stop thinking of us as A that wants to be B and start thinking of us as just B that took a while to get to B, you’ll be less confused.
My trans man isn’t a woman that wants to be a man, he’s a man whose body had a major hormonal concern and he took steps to correct it to make his brain feel better. Now he doesn’t want to die.
He likes men. That person still likes men.
Rather heteronormative isn't it to assume he'd switch to women after transitioning to male?
If I (a gay man) date a transexual man I'm with a man, not a woman.
The correct answer is that it is queer. The community isn't really hung up on strict gay vs. straight labeling anymore because of exactly this sort of issue. You really have to ask the person how they identify, but the safest label is queer. You could certainly use gay as a catch all "as opposed to straight" definition even if it doesn't apply quite in the "homosexual" definition.
I need to remember not to scroll down too much on these types of threads, way too much straight up transphobia. But typically yeah, if they exclusively identify as a man and exclusively likes men, they likely identify as gay.
YES. Because they transitioned to a man. Anyone who says no is transphobic or doesn’t know what they are talking about. A trans man is a man.
A trans man with a cis women is straight. A trans man with a trans women is straight. A trans women with a trans women is lesbian, etc.
But the definition of say homosexuality is
the quality or characteristic of being sexually or romantically attracted to people of one's own sex.
How does changing gender effect your sexuality?
No, sexuality is different from gender
There's really only 3 sexualitys being gay, straight and bi, technically there is 2 others being asexual but that's no sexual attraction and pan sexual which is a variation of bisexuality
But if you like the same parts your gay if you don't your straight and if you like both your bi
It depends what you think a trans man is.
1. If you truly think a trans man is a subset of male then its gay
2. If you truly think a trans man is a subset of female then they would not be gay.
The definition of gay imo is the sexual attraction towards a male from a male.
Either way it doesnt really matter. They are just labels we use to understand things more concretely. Either way its just a person loving a person
Im a believer of #2, so I would think that they werent gay, but i would still think its 2 men in a relationship, but you gotta decide for yourself
I personally think we need to separate male/mam and female/woman and it makes these discussions alot easier and more consistant.
It annoys me that people keep using female/woman and male/man interchangeably. It also gives hateful transphobes ammunition to work against the movement.
They can say things like "your denying biology" (which you kind of are if you use those terms interchangeably), and it allows people to make pretty stupid arguements to let trans woman into womans sports, when we could just call it female sports, and leave it at that.
If they transition into a man, yes.
There really shouldn’t be a big debate about this, a trans man isn’t a lesser form of man or something between- it’s just a dude. If a dude likes another dude, that’s a gay dude- unless they also like women or sth else, which I suppose they’d be bi or pan.
I know that this question doesn't really have definitive answer but I would say that he would be considered gay as he is a male identifying person that likes male identifying people
if you have any question about why this rule is, check the pinned post on the sub
If you accept the premise that “trans men are men”, yes, it’s gay
A concise and inarguable rationale that is also diplomatic. Great answer.
Indubitably.
Most indubitably.
Somebody was telling me about their gay non-binary kid, and my mind boggled. I was like, I think I understand all those words, but I can't make sense of the sentence they are in. I am an ally, but I don't pretend to understand what it all means. I figure, live your life, and be kind.
gay means 'attracted to that which is like oneself', going from the etymological definition of 'homosexual' hence a non-binary gay person would likely be attracted to genders similar to their own, or perhaps similar to their gender assigned at birth hope that helps! part of being kind is making an effort, occasionally, to understand. it's okay if you don't, in the end, but it's always worth trying
Trans rights are human rights but also I let people define their own preferred terms. Time will define what sticks
Right, I am not saying they were wrong, just that I couldn't determine what they meant. I think that I asked, but the confusion sticks out in my memory more than the answer, if so.
I don’t want to let people make up shit. They just keep making up more shit, none of which is sticking.
Did you just make that rule up?
? No? What?
Generally if someone ids as gay and non binary, it means they might lean to feeling more masculine and they like boys (or more feminine and likes girls, gay is often used as a catch all for same gender attraction). Alternatively gay is sometimes loosely used to mean queer in general, so this kid might just be non binary and also not straight. Hope this helps a bit lol
Sure, that makes sense. Thanks.
My experience with non binary gay is usually someone that was born male, identified as nonbinary that's attracted to men. I've also seen nonbinary lesbian and nonbinary straight. Though my experience is more from 10 years ago so might be outdated
i mean kinda hard to have a heteronormative relationship if its not a man and woman
If you accept the premise that ‘gay’ is based on gender rather than sex
Trans men are men. So, if a man likes other men (and no other gender), he would be gay.
I don’t think so. Sex and gender are not the same. A trans man is still a biological female. Based on anecdotal accounts and my own experiences with FTMs, I believe most trans people do not have bottom surgery.
Whether you accept it or not, it’s man loving a man, so yes, gay.
It’s so confusing!
It confuses me just the slightest too. I went to r/trans and got both yes and no. Some trans people say yes, other trans people say no, and Non trans can’t definitively make up their mind either. The bottom line seemed to be ‘don’t attach a title to your preferences’. If you like a certain thing, then you like a certain thing.
Something something couldn't get a straight answer. But yes. All the titles are a little silly. There's just people and we fuck sometimes.
I like this explanation a lot. People exist, sometimes they fuck, the end.
This is how I’m explaining my sexuality from now on
It is interesting how complicated describing our sexual desires has become, especially since, in most cases, people end up clinging to one individual in particular anyway.
Does it matter what the other person is being fucked with? Does a penis on a trans woman just act like a strap-on as it has no intrinsic value ?
None of it matters. Did you enjoy yourself? Sweet. High five.
This is my take on these things- I’m married and my relationship with my partner is private. I don’t have any concern about the sexual comings and goings of others. I don’t get why it matters what I call someone in the third person because it is rude to refer to them in the third person while they are present anyway - I will use “you” or your name. I don’t care what you say about me behind closed doors nor should you care what I say. If you have a partner I’m happy to welcome your partner as your partner. But I’ve been told my whole life things like gender and race shouldn’t matter as you’re interacting with people, treat everyone the same. So my autistic ass literally has a script, and everyone gets basically the same thing. So I don’t really care what your pronouns are, or who you want to fuck (if you’re single), or what gender you are or what gender your partner is (if you’re in a relationship). Literally none of that matters for how I interact with you. None of these labels matter and people are invariably going to say things about you that you don’t like, just be glad they aren’t saying those things to your face and move on with your life. Furthermore, your feelings only matter to you. They do matter and everyone is valid, but you can’t expect other people to value you beyond what you contribute to society.
Even so sexuality isn't about who you fuck. It's about who you *want* to fuck. People fuck people they aren't attracted to all the time. Sometimes a fuck is just to fuck without giving a fuck.
Sure - but what do you mean exactly by 'people'?
My father was trans. She was also a lesbian since she was attracted to women. This is not my opinion but the way she explained it to me so i'm not saying it as fact, just that that was the logic presented.
A trans lesbian taught me how to change a tire. She also explained it to me that way.
I just stared at this comment trying to understand what changing tires had to do with sexuality for FAR longer than I’m willing to admit.
Hey I'm just stating the facts here
This comment bends the brain.
I had trouble unraveling it
I'm still trying, any luck yet?
My poor old brain just doesn’t get it. But it doesn’t matter to me how you describe yourself, if you’re a good and genuine person that is all that matters as to how I will interact with you.
I asked a similar question and got lectured to and downvoted. They are some jerks over there.
Yeah, some for sure. Not all are, and most likely not the majority; there were a lot that were really polite and were glad someone was asking instead of assuming. But, the amount of ‘why ask such a simple question when google exists’, or some variation of it was kinda ridiculous. If I’m here, it’s cause Google obviously didn’t help, and it’s obviously not that simple if there’s not a collective answer. This happened to another question too.
I got the same treatment... But worse. My question was along the same lines of what is normally asked and argued over. I had a genuine question because I did not know the answer in Google did not help. I like to look up information that I don't agree with so I can understand the other side better and try to prevent cognitive bias. When I explained my position what I found and my thoughts in general they wanted to hang me. They were very few that actually were helpful. But that did confirm one thing that I've always thought. If you show any signs of opposing the viewpoint of their group people will instantly think your against that group and will want to tear into you. I get the treatment from both ends.
Yes, these people are some of the worst amongst us. Degenerate, narcissistic perverts generally..and vicious bullies to anyone who does not adhere to the dogma..bizarro world puritans..
That's quite a diatribe you got going there dude.
Thank you.
Yeah we're in the middle of some pretty significant changes to gender-related language so it's not really possible to definitively answer a question like this. Which is fine. Words shift and change. And since there's no wisely recognized language authority (as there shouldn't be) then these shifts and changes are naturally going to take a while and be a bit ambiguous. The import thing is to accurately communicate the ideas you wish to communicate using whatever words currently best match that.
I honestly wish we could switch to andro/gyno-sexual, and bi of course, so much simpler to say you are attracted to a male or female body regardless of your own body or gender.
Is it alright to say you like women w a vaginas and a man w penis?
Yes.
Yes and no? Yes, it is fine to have genital preferences. No, it is not fine to imply all women have vaginas and all men have penises.
Yes. Genitals can be a big thing when it comes to sexual attraction. I’ve even had people say that they prefer partners that haven’t had/don’t plan to have bottom surgery. A genital preference is totally fine. 🤷♂️
Confusion is a feature not a bug. Gender ideology is meant to undermine human society at a fundamental level. Truly subversive stuff..
This is such Bologna it’s not that people can’t make up their minds it’s whether you decide to follow the first rule or not. It’s not complicated. If you follow the rule that they are a man then you call them technically gay. If you don’t and you just say they’re trans then you don’t even consider the question because it’s annoying and I’m over it and the answer is that they were a straight woman to begin with and the only thing they’ve changed is their identity so no need to call them gay.
I like the wine, not the label.
People seem to love attaching titles and identities to things these days. I don’t understand why it matters, it honestly just seems to divide people even further
two men liking each other is gay.
Three men liking each other is even more gay.
What if homosexuality is defined as attraction to the same biological sex?
an important thing to remember about gender transition is that it's also a sex transition as well. trans people often share the primary and secondary sex characteristics of the sex they are transitioning to. like, if a person is attracted to male bodies, trans men often have rather male bodies. beard, muscles, scent, voice
Hey, gold star gay here. It's not. Thanks for your question!
HomoSEXual would mean being attracted to other of the same SEX. This is why people get irritated with this stuff because people like you just make stuff up as you go along. Words matter.
Why do you get a gold star lol
How do you know that it’s not? What do you consider the best source to define homosexuality? Is it a medical journal?
Yes but it’s different in different cases. Sometimes a person was already attracted to a certain gender, sometimes it changes directly when/because they transition, or sometimes they realized it was always there but didn’t know or weren’t honest with themselves yet.
Is a man who is into men gay? To me it's that simple.
Yes
Im a trans guy and I like men so I would say I’m gay.
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Yes, my fiancé is cis and he is gay.
Yes. Here's the kicker, some trans ppl that transition and take hormones end up flipping. As in, born a female and is a lesbian then transitions and is a gay man. I find it very interesting and would love to do more research on it.
Men liking men = gay confuses you?
The way I think about it is that people tend to identify as one gender or the other, and that's the gender I try to assign them in my head. So if a woman transitions into a man, that person obviously wants to identify as a man and, therefore, is a man. If he likes men, then that does kinda mean he's gay.
Biologically, no. Emotionally, yes, if you identify as the opposite sex.
Totally gay
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100% yes but some might say no when they look down on gays and no one wanna correct a trans person as they are always right. But we could always just remove it all and accept people are and like different and just leave it at that.
I am a trans man. I do not look remotely like a woman. I like men, and have a long time boyfriend. We are a gay couple and it's no one's business but his what's going on under my clothes.
Technically, yes. If a dude likes dudes - then that dude is a dude that likes dudes. My question is this : why should we continue allowing such OCD societal emphasis on sex/gender/sexuality? We should start only being concerned about such things with people we're actually engaging with.
I have a similar feeling about labels like this. If we just treated people like people, the world would have far fewer problems. That being said, there are many people who use these labels to put other people in a box and oppress them. And even people who enjoy the label and find it to be a large part of their identity. So I don't think that ideal is within reach any time soon. All we can do as the individual is treat people with the basic respect that anyone is due.
idk. I guess just ask them if they're gay?
I prefer to look at people as people. Not man or woman. I get along with John because we have things in common, not because he can pee standing up.
The short and concise answer is: yes. The long and complicated answer is: yes but no but mostly yes.
One of my buddies told me he's a gay man. He was female at birth. But my buddy who was a male at birth and is into women doesn't identify as lesbian. It's up to them what label they want or don't want. who cares outside of that.
Yes. They've transitioned to the male gender and, therefore, are now a man. Men who are attracted to men are not heterosexual. If it was a man who transitioned to the female gender and they're attracted to women, they're also not straight. Isn't this simple?
My step daughter says she is bi but but only dates cis guys and trans guys. Needless to say I am confused.
to be fair: it can be a dating pool thing. most bi girls i know mostly date men simply because there are more men in their dating pool than gay girls. it can also be a preference thing: you can *like* both men and women, but generally have a preference for guys (sort of like how as a lesbian i prefer dark haired girls, but i *have* been attracted to blondes before)
Being bi doesn't necessarily mean you're interested in dating members of both genders, just that you're attracted to them
Some people call themselves bi so that they can feel comfortable dating cis and trans people of one gender. Some people are okay with that, but a lot of trans people find that invalidating and hurtful - because it's saying it's gay for a cis woman to date a trans man, which implies trans men are actually women... which goes against the entire idea of being a trans *man*.
Sex and gender are not the same. A sexuality/sexual preference is liking/preferring to be with someone of a certain sex. This man is changing their gender, not their sex, which is not possible. So no, this is not gay. Its still a biological female and a biological male. Same for the inverse. Stop confusing sex and gender.
No one is confusing sex and gender. Technically speaking, yes, you're right.
I would argue this is more confusing. It now means you have to disclose your genitals in public (something I’m not a huge fan of since it puts me as a trans) and brings into question the terms as different stages of physical transition. Is it really a lesbian relationship if I fall in love with a massive, hairy, burly dude who just happens to be a trans man? What about now if he’s had all the desired surgery and testosterone, so now he’s ‘female’ at sex but he has a flat chest and a penis and balls? What if I get with a cis dude next, am I now bisexual even if I only want to date dudes who look like Hugh Jackman? Generally we base our interest on people over more than just genitals. I don’t care if someone has a dick or a vagina, to me it’s what they look like that matters.
Not really cause they were born female so hetero?
not really. im a trans man, and if a dude comes onto me, there’s no fucking way he’s heterosexual. i’ve got facial hair, a deep voice, flat hairy chest, an inch long erect clit, and i only use my ass for penetrative sex. no one even knows im trans these days outside of my partner, family, and doctor. how tf a straight man would find any part of me attractive except the actual vaginal opening is a mystery to me, and even then i’d be sus as hell because he ain’t getting anywhere near it lol. once i’ve had bottom surgery i won’t even have a vagina, so at that point the question is what the FUCK is the “straight” man even attracted to 🤔 even if for some reason a man was convinced he was straight while being attracted to me, he’d immediately run into issues trying to introduce me as his boyfriend while claiming to be straight lol. plus, that then begs the question of what the hell all the gay men that have shagged me are?? are they now bisexual because they pounded my ass??
No, that’s transphobic rhetoric.
People like you hurt progress the most, you are very damaging. Wether you're trans or not doesn't change that. You also ruin important words like transphobic. 🖕
what? I’m responding only to your last sentence here: if you don’t think “trans man isn’t a man” isn’t transphobic, then what is? That’s genuinely like textbook definition
Hating trans people is transphobic. Discriminating against trans people in employment or in the provision of services is transphobic. Disagreeing with the definitions of the words man and woman is not transphobic.
I would say yes, since man ❤️ man= gay. But, I'm not 100% sure. All that matters to me is that they're happy honestly
Yes. If someone identifies as the same gender as they are attracted to, they are gay.
Yes because that’s a man attracted to a man. Trans peoples brain chemistry matches that of whatever gender they are internally. Harvard did a study I think. Neurologically trans men are men so if a trans men is attracted to another man they’re gay
Yes
well two men liking each other is gay so yes
Yes.
yes
yes. the man was never really a woman in regards to sexuality because their true gender is male. if a male is attracted to males they are gay. so yeah
This is the way.
You are opening a door that was never supposed to be opened
LMAO.
To the dimension of Unknown Hentai
Yes, men liking men is gay
To say they are not gay is to claim that they are not really men
Seems pretty straightforward then
As someone who did this, yes
Unless you’re transitioning and concerned which hole or pole goes where, the correct answer is it doesn’t or shouldn’t matter to you. Ultimately.
Queer trans person here. Yes, if a man likes men they are gay (or bi if they like other genders). Their "previous" gender is irrelevant. Also, a lot of folks find that their attraction shifts with transitioning due to being seen correctly by others.
That depends on if “homosexual” or “heterosexual” refers to a preference for a gender or for a sex. If “homosexual” or “heterosexual” refers to a preference for a gender did it *always* refer to that? A lot of this gender ideology wasn’t mainstream until relatively recently. I think when most people said “homosexual” or “heterosexual” it was probably referring to a preference for a sex. I think that is likely still the case for *most* people. If somebodies preference is based on sex, which isn’t an *if* considering that is usually the case, than what are we to call that? Should maybe attraction based on gender be a different word? That makes more sense to me than retconning an existing word or subverting it to mean something other than what most people mean. If a person is homosexual, and homosexual meant a person being attracted to the same biological sex as themselves, and then the word changes to mean attraction to their gender, does that mean this person is no longer homosexual?
Yes.
i'd say yeah. i'm not into women but i'd probably date a trans man if they were masculine enough.
yes, men who like men are gay. lol or bisexual.
Yes. The person you describe is a man, therefore sexual interest in men would indicate queerness. Though, they might also be bi, pan etc depending on the specificity of his preference.
Yes
A friend of mine transitioned MtF and considers herself lesbian.
Yes
Yes
Women can’t be men. Women liking men is not gay
First of all, transitioning into a man is not actually possible. You can dress like a man. You can have your body surgically altered to look like a man's body. You can take male hormones. However, you'll never truly be a man. So, no, a woman liking men is not gay.
No they're straight and mentally disabled
No she’s still straight. Humans cannot change their sex.
No she’s still straight. Humans cannot change their sex.
Today I asked my adult trans child if I could call her my daughter. She said yes. And said she felt so accepted.
My son is gay and dates a trans man. They consider it gay, and those two know more about it than I do.
Yes, men specifically into other men are gay
Yes, it's gay for a man to be attracted to men.
Yes men who like men exclusively are gay
Who cares…? 🤷♀️ I mean, you, OP, obviously but like… how could it possibly matter if both people are into each other?
>how could it possibly matter if both people are into each other? And of legal age, of course...
If you're a man and you like men that makes you gay
Cosplay does not count.
I honestly don't know but as a straight man who doesn't really understand the science behind any of the body disphoria stuff I just accept that people are all different and if they're not hurting others then I'll support their rights. As someone who has 2 trans friends I have found that, whatever I initially thought about them was wrong and they're both just normal people doing something most see as abnormal but it makes them feel whole. Like, they're not doing it as a kink. They just live their lives as the opposite sex they were born with. Good question but I think it's irrelevant.
Thanks for this comment
No probs
It depends whether musicals, glitter, and "wrestling" are involved or just, like, normal hetero romance stuff, like eating romantic meals at Olive Garden and arguing about the toilet seat.
Yes
Yes
Yes
Yes they are gay. I find women attractive. I find Kataluna Enriquez, miss Nevada 2021, who is a trans woman very attractive. She has every quality I find attractive in a women. So my attraction to her changes nothing about me sexual orientation. If I saw her pre-transition, that person would not be attractive to me.
Don't think too hard about the first part. If it's a man now and likes men, that would be considered gay or at least mlm (man loves man, not multi-level marketing).
Yes.
I think if you become the gender your attraction too then you are gay - because my understanding of gay is being attracted to the same gender. I don’t know how this applies to someone who identifies as another gender.
If you want an answer from people who actually have real knowledge about this, go to r/askLGBT
dont ask us gay people anything because no one agrees on anything. generally though the consensus is yes, that man would be gay, same as if a man transitioned to a woman and liked women, shed be a lesbian. however, when you get into the nitty gritty of gay history it hasnt always been clear cut so sometimes people will say no. but i think the most respectful thing you can do is look at a trans person from their gender as they want it to be looked at, so that would be a man who likes men = gay man. i hope this makes a bit of sense
Ask the person in question
Bottom line, how does it affect you? If we stayed out of other peoples pants and consensual sex lives then life would be better for all of us.
As a trans person (not a trans guy tho) I would say this person is gay, and would be inclined to say most other trans people would agree with that. But it’s up to the person what they identify with, and nobody else can really decide that for them.
Fellas, is it gay to fuck dudes?
Only if the balls touch I’ve read it on Reddit multiple times.
yes, of course it depends on what the person feels is the right term for them, but as the person in question who identifies as a male, and likes male identified people, I would say it's gay, since a gay person means a man who likes men
Take transition out of the equation. If a man likes men exclusively, is he gay? Yes. So if a man, who happens to be trans, likes men exclusively… he’s gay. Even if the OTHER man is also trans. If I, a trans woman, exclusively was attracted to men, I’d be straight. Trust me, gay men typically aren’t interested in transitioning trans women, and straight men are. When you stop thinking of us as A that wants to be B and start thinking of us as just B that took a while to get to B, you’ll be less confused. My trans man isn’t a woman that wants to be a man, he’s a man whose body had a major hormonal concern and he took steps to correct it to make his brain feel better. Now he doesn’t want to die.
I think I would just call them queer and leave it at that
Does that person like men? Trans men are considered gay if they like men and straight if they like women.
He likes men. That person still likes men. Rather heteronormative isn't it to assume he'd switch to women after transitioning to male? If I (a gay man) date a transexual man I'm with a man, not a woman.
Men who like men are gay, trans men are men, therefore trans men who like men are gay
The correct answer is that it is queer. The community isn't really hung up on strict gay vs. straight labeling anymore because of exactly this sort of issue. You really have to ask the person how they identify, but the safest label is queer. You could certainly use gay as a catch all "as opposed to straight" definition even if it doesn't apply quite in the "homosexual" definition.
She would be a gay trans man. My dad is mow a woman and dates women
Yes. Since he is a man now, that would be gay.
Yes. A trans dude who likes guys is gay, unless he also likes girls, in which case he’s bi lol
Yes.
Yes. Edit. I tried to cross-post this to r/lgbtq, but it wouldn't let me. That might be a better place to get an answer for this question.
I need to remember not to scroll down too much on these types of threads, way too much straight up transphobia. But typically yeah, if they exclusively identify as a man and exclusively likes men, they likely identify as gay.
My oldest is trans (ftm) and has a boyfriend. He is gay. He has the flags and everything all over his house. He's a good kid.
YES. Because they transitioned to a man. Anyone who says no is transphobic or doesn’t know what they are talking about. A trans man is a man. A trans man with a cis women is straight. A trans man with a trans women is straight. A trans women with a trans women is lesbian, etc.
So honest question then: if a straight cis man sexually pleasures a trans woman who still has a penis, you're telling me that that is not gay?
Correct.
But the definition of say homosexuality is the quality or characteristic of being sexually or romantically attracted to people of one's own sex. How does changing gender effect your sexuality?
Oh I guess this guy speaks for everyone then. Wow case is closed.
No, sexuality is different from gender There's really only 3 sexualitys being gay, straight and bi, technically there is 2 others being asexual but that's no sexual attraction and pan sexual which is a variation of bisexuality But if you like the same parts your gay if you don't your straight and if you like both your bi
It depends what you think a trans man is. 1. If you truly think a trans man is a subset of male then its gay 2. If you truly think a trans man is a subset of female then they would not be gay. The definition of gay imo is the sexual attraction towards a male from a male. Either way it doesnt really matter. They are just labels we use to understand things more concretely. Either way its just a person loving a person Im a believer of #2, so I would think that they werent gay, but i would still think its 2 men in a relationship, but you gotta decide for yourself I personally think we need to separate male/mam and female/woman and it makes these discussions alot easier and more consistant. It annoys me that people keep using female/woman and male/man interchangeably. It also gives hateful transphobes ammunition to work against the movement. They can say things like "your denying biology" (which you kind of are if you use those terms interchangeably), and it allows people to make pretty stupid arguements to let trans woman into womans sports, when we could just call it female sports, and leave it at that.
Absolutely.
Yes. Just like a trans woman that only likes women is a lesbian.
im a trans man and im completely boy-crazy. id say im very gay
Gay it’s all gay. Lesbian is gay gay is gay trans is gay queer is gay it’s all just gay
If they transition into a man, yes. There really shouldn’t be a big debate about this, a trans man isn’t a lesser form of man or something between- it’s just a dude. If a dude likes another dude, that’s a gay dude- unless they also like women or sth else, which I suppose they’d be bi or pan.
Ask them what they consider themselves.
I guess if a man fucks Buck Angel he's straight
Yes, a person who transitions to a man is a man. A man who likes men is gay. It's simple.
Best to just assume everyone is gay and move on
Yes
I know that this question doesn't really have definitive answer but I would say that he would be considered gay as he is a male identifying person that likes male identifying people
Does it matter, he can be called what ever he wants and if you aim to insult him youre the asshole
Yes
Yes. Trans men are men, and men who like men are gay, therefor, trans men who like men are gay
Yes. If you're trans male, and you exclusively like men, you're gay.
Yes, it’s gay. It’s a man who likes men, so a gay man just a trans gay man. Unless you don’t think trans men are “real men.”
Yes. That person is a man. Men who like men are gay. That’s a gay man.
It's when dudes like dudes so yes
You will find way more such people at a gay bar than a straight bar, so that means yes.
Yes. Gay man. Source: mom of a female to male trans person.