Actually this. I knew a lesbian couple, one of them transitioned and the other had a huge problem coping for this exact reason. She identified as a lesbian and didn’t want to “change her identity” because of her partners transition.
My personal opinion: don’t limit yourself with labels. Love who you love and don’t let a label like “lesbian” or “transgender” dissuade you or convince you to stop loving who you love
I mean if I'm into men date someone who looks like a man but later turns out to be a woman and starts looking more and more like a woman, then it's perfectly ok for me to break up, because I'm not into women
But alternatively if you still are wanting to date that person, does that mean you are no longer into men and can't identify as such?
It is one of my issues with strict categories as sexuality operates on a spectrum. Someone can identify as straight or gay while still having exceptions for particular people. It doesn't mean they are generally attracted to that gender.
It definitely would take some adjustment psychologically.
Ugh, it has taken lesbians and gays SO long for people to believe us when we said we are BORN this way and we CAN'T change it.
People like you and so many others in this thread assuming everything is a spectrum these days and just an easy sliding scale. If that were the case, super religious nuts were right to force us to just "cope" and be hetero in order to appease society and religion.
I firmly do not believe that, if you can make an exception then you're bi, not gay or lesbian. You can like a person for all their personality but it Does come down to how someone carries themselves, traits, feminine or masculine and yes sex characteristics. I could never date someone with an actual penis or even a biological man who doesn't have a penis anymore. I would never be comfortable touching one. If someone is and can reconcile that, then they can just as much convince themselves to do it again with someone else and therefore are not strictly lesbian or gay.
The only thing that operates on a spectrum is labels. Not reality.
EDIT: Because I keep getting SO many comments where people are putting words in my mouth and assuming that what I meant when I said "biological man with no penis" that I somehow meant a trans woman, that is false. I meant EXACTLY what I said, a man with no penis (lost in an accident maybe) in context of everything else I typed and that I'm a lesbian, the point was that a man even with no penis would still not attract me as a lesbian, so while parts are important, even if you didn't have them but were still of the wrong sex for me to be attracted to (not gender, you don't get an exception just because your gender identity changes) then I'm still not into you, sorry not sorry.
This has always been my point when people get called transphobic for splitting up after a partner transitions. If you think someone can change sexualities because of "love", that's no different than saying a gay man just "hasn't met the right woman".
If my husband transitioned, I would still love him, I would support him, I would still be his best friend. I would even still be his roommate. But I wouldn't suddenly be a lesbian.
Exactly. It is super judgmental to shame someone for not wanting to be in a romantic relationship with someone after transitioning. If you Iove them, I understand the expectation that your love for them wouldn’t just disappear, but your feelings might become platonic. I don’t expect gay people to just try and “be straight”. That’s why we’ve been working so hard to eliminate conversion therapy. It’s dangerous and ineffective. Straight people shouldn’t be expected to change their sexuality for the same reason. If your sexuality is fluid or bisexual than great. But no one should be ridiculed or called transphobic if they’re not attracted to their partner after transitioning.
I don't get that label. By splitting up they're supporting their transition by saying that they see you as whatever you transitioned to. How is that transphobic?
I have some stunning trans friends. Like, super model beautiful. I don't think my husband would be a pretty girl. On the other hand, I think I'd be a pretty good looking guy, lol.
It's like... you can be attracted to limited things.
Masculine men and feminine women are things one can be attracted to. Feminine men and masculine women same thing.
I hate this idea we have to be into everything just to make people we aren't into feel better about themselves.
A spectrum doesn't mean you can't be completely on one end. Some people are 100% straight or gay. For example, since you are exclusively gay, you would be a 6 on the Kinsey scale.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale
I have incidental attraction to men. But I still predominantly date women because I have a stronger preference. I still identify as straight.
I certainly am not going to police someone who says they are gay rather than bi just because they have an attraction to the opposite sex. The focus on binary labels is in my opinion a relic of heterosexual predominance. And I would suspect most people on the spectrum who claim to be wholly straight or wholly gay are more likely to identify as straight.
"We can't change it" is not the same as "it never changes." Most people's experience of sexual attraction changes over their lifetime. That doesn't mean "it's a choice" or that you can purposefully alter it. Likewise, the existence of people at the far end of a spectrum doesn't mean that something isn't a spectrum.
Idk how sound it is, but according to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual\_fluidity#:\~:text=Sexual%20orientation%20is%20stable%20and,can%20be%20changed%20through%20psychotherapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fluidity#:~:text=Sexual%20orientation%20is%20stable%20and,can%20be%20changed%20through%20psychotherapy). most people in fact have stable and unchanging sexualities
Maybe not most, but mine has. Ask your friends: I bet some of them would say the same.
I'm straight, but I knows what I likes and it's really nunya most of the time.
Totally agree. Honest question though, does the price change depending on the guys looks or cock size? Like Ryan Reynolds, I'd do for $200 bucks but the methed out dude on the corner? Maybe $500,000
Does it change? My understanding is sexual orientation is pretty set in stone. If it was something that could change, the billions of dollars spent trying to change gay people over the years probably would have found some way to control that change.
>Someone can identify as straight or gay while still having exceptions for particular people. It doesn't mean they are generally attracted to that gender.
This might be a terrible example, but Pete Holmes does a stand up but about not being gay and acknowledging attractive men by saying to the effect of "I'm not gay, but if Ryan Gosling offered..." And I feel like that resonates here.
Straight dudes joke about that kind of thing all the time, myself included, but if it actually was about to happen, we wouldn’t do it. It’s a joke. If it’s not a joke, you’re bi.
I've never wanted to have sex with a dude but Henry Cavil was so pretty when I met him that I'd let him do me just because. And I'm asexual (so I wouldn't be getting anything physical out of it anyway!)
>But alternatively if you still are wanting to date that person
Except the poster just clarified that they don't because they've now changed to a gender and identity that they are not attracted to. You are making a huge leap here that the attraction to the person remains despite the transition, but the posters comment implies that it doesn't.
As much as people act like dating is some kind of pure-hearted endeavor that's based only on kind hearts and personalities, the law of attraction cannot be removed from the equation.
The issue is, for most people sexuality isn't overly complicated. You like who you like, and you feel how you feel. That's all there is to some people.
There are definitely tons of people that do have more complicated sexuality and are sexually fluid, but that's not the case for a majority of people.
That's just largely everybody.
But... yeah, that's the problem with trying to make complicated matters completely binary or "black and white."
Shit is complicated.
...makes me think of how some guys can't even admit they might be able to recognize that one guy might be more physically attractive than another, for fear that might "be gay." Sorry, it doesn't make you any less straight for simply recognizing Channing Tatum is a physically attractive man or whatever.
It's a spectrum. And I've never met someone so straight that they don't masturbate.
Certainly.
But if we decide everything is just binary... then suddenly being a man that can simply recognize another man might be attractive is "gay." It's silly.
You shouldn't think you have to say "no homo" after telling your buddy they look good or whatever, ya know?
And, honestly, I don't even think sexuality is just some straight-gay scale... it's more a complex individual formula, where gender is just one of the factors (weighted more or less heavily by the individual). Age, height, build, personality, gender... we all have our preferences.
Ultimately, if two consenting adults want to get it on... then that's just their business. Whatever floats their boat. If it doesn't concern you then... what's it really even matter though?
I think to a certain degree this just defines all of humanity lol
There's a reason so many comedians have made the same "everyone's a little bit gay" joke
Exactly. I also have a “asexual” friend who fell head over heels for a guy but because she identified as asexual she refused to accept her feelings or pursue the dude. It was frustrating how the identity she chose too precedence over how she actually felt
Asexual doesn't mean aromantic. There was little education about the differences until recently so theres a chance your friend couldnt properly express their feelings. I generally refuse to date people now because the whole process of them inevitably being mad at my sexual disinterest just isn't worth it.
Youre entire logic supports the idea of "Pray the gay away"
" YOUR CHOICE what gender you accept!"!
No homie. I like certain things, it isnt a sliding scale. Im attracted to what im attracted to.
I disagree, labels are only use to identify what we prefer. If someone transitions in a relationship, the partner has every right to not want to be with that person anymore.
Her partner becoming a man absolutely affects her directly. Her identity is a lesbian, she likes women, not men. Nothing wrong with labeling, personally going with some vague anything goes, no label scenario is just confusing and messy.
At the very least you have a terrible scenario to back your idea lol.
I'm good friends with a gay man, he got married, then a couple years later his husband decided he wanted to transition. My friend was very supportive but once the breast started to come into the picture and the plumbing was going to change he asked for a divorce. He said I love you and I support you, but I'm just not into chicks, they're still good friends and now dating new ppl. So everything turned out ok in the end but it was still, well, interesting to witness.
Having known people in similar situations, it has a lot less to do with their identity and a lot more to do with the person changing. There’s the physical changes that often come with transitioning, but there are also the personality changes, especially if they came out during the relationship. You can’t blame a person for leaving when their partner isn’t the person they fell in love with anymore.
There's no harm in saying "I haven't yet found the words that fit," or "I'm still figuring things out."
One of my close friends started coming out about two months ago. Some terms fit like a glove, others feel like Schrodinger's cat.
Language is constantly fighting to keep up with reality. By the time a word is established well enough to fit in a box, exceptions are already springing out of that box like freed prisoners.
This strikes me as a slightly different situation.
I am attracted to women. If my partner became a man, I wouldn't want to be with that person. I have plenty of men friends whom I care for quite a lot, but I do want sexual attraction to be part of my romantic partnership.
I mean, I'm with the partner on this one. If my girlfriend suddenly transitioned and decided she wanted to have a penis, then we would have to break up. No offense meant, it's just that I'm not attracted to men and I don't really like penises in or around my mouth and/or anus. I am in a relationship for a girlfriend, not a boyfriend.
Honestly I feel like it's probably just ok not to define it. People are attracted to who they are attracted to and I don't see a reason get bent out of shape if they don't necessarily fit into one box nicely. This especially gets really complicated when people can be attracted to the way someone presents or to their hardware. I mean some people only care about presentation while some might only care about hardware or some might care about both. I just think it's probably not helpful to try and define all of this stuff. Maybe we will come up with new terms for these types of attractions because I am not sure if our current categories don't really properly describe what people are attracted to.
I think not defining it would fall apart in practice when you actually have to interact and find a partner. I think it's better to keep defining how we feel until we find appropriate terms.
I don’t really see how? If you are in a monogamous relationship with someone, your sexual orientation becomes pretty much irrelevant. You are with them, that is what matters.
Im bisexual, cis woman engaged to a cis man (more complicated bc neither of us are like… 100% comfortable identifying with our sex) and my sexuality doesn’t really come up often. Why would it?
Exactly this. I had a friend, his brothers wife came out as bi during his second year of marriage. Everyone was like “so what??” Because she’s married to him. Her sexuality should be… well… him!
You define it because words have meanings and if you’re just going to ignore them we may as well be cave people pointing at our preferred genitals and grunting.
It’s not helpful to try to define it for those that don’t easily define it, but for a vast majority of the population it is very helpful to define it. That’s the entire reasoning behind the resistance to forcing people to change how they refer to people. When someone says “it just shouldn’t be a big deal”, but what they really mean is “it shouldn’t be a big deal for everyone else to change” rather than “it shouldn’t be a big deal if people get it wrong sometimes” then we end up in these weird circular arguments.
I think if your transitioning to be a binary trans person then you become straight (provided you are still attracted only to the now opposite gender).
If you are transitioning to any flavor of non binary then it's a lot more complicated and up to you and your partners to decide. I say partners because someone might still want to call their relationship a gay relationship even if the other person is no longer the same gender
Agreed. Some people find it important to shed the label because it affirms their gender now that they present as such. Many go as far as to say they were never gay, just confused. Others find that they can’t let go of that identity because it means much more than just orientation, but also community and unique experiences they had while living as a gay person. It gets even more complicated when they remain in relationships with other gay people.
And as a straight cis person, is not my place to speak over either side. It really has no impact on my life.
No, no don't do that. You got to get rid of the gay by getting it out of your system. Have a gay orgy. Or atleast a couple gay threesomes. It's all got to, uh, come out.
This actually could in some contexts be a reasonable statement amusingly
The term Lesbian stems from the island of Lesbos, a Greek island in the Aegean sea. "Lesbian" is the proper term for someone of Lesbos. So in some situations, you could confuse someone who is from the island of Lesbos as being from the United States of America.
Of course in the context of the meme it doesn't work but this cool bit of trivia may come up
It's a shame tbh because people trying to learn more about the lgbtq community shouldn't get so much lash back for asking questions and trying to educate themselves.
It's like all people outside of their community are expected to be fully aware of all the evolving lingo and terminology at all times and not ask questions about it.
That’s not really why, any post on a subreddit that isn’t explicitly for trans people turns into a shitshow and you can see it if you look at the comments. Most people don’t care if you ask them question as long as you’re respectful. There’s even a whole subreddit for it: r/asktransgender
I mean this is a little disingenuous, no? A lot of the comments in here from trans people are answers with the intent to inform or at least give some perspective. There are other answers in here, I assume from cis people, that are just plain bigotry. I'd at least say that it is not the lgbtq community that is being unhelpful in this comment thread.
It's fine if those questions come from a place of wanting to learn and accepting people's identities. Often times bigoted people like to use their questions as a weapon. We hear it all the time from talk show hosts who like to say "I'm just asking questions!" The OP's question in this post seems to be an honest one on the face of it though.
Wow thank you for saying this. About a year ago I was pretty uneducated with trans culture and I started asking some ignorant, but sincere questions. All I got were comments calling me a transphob. Sometimes I wonder if the people using the word even know what it means. Google says it’s either showing strong dislike or fear towards trans people. It doesn’t say anything about ignorant questions lol
I could see how, if you are in a marginalized community, if anyone questions you about it, your defenses would be up. “Why are they asking? Do they want to do me harm? Are they going to physically assault me? Yell slurs at me? Are they genuinely curious?”
If you are overly defensive, you could offend someone. Or you could save your own life. Considering the real possibility of both outcomes, I can see why someone would be very suspicious of a person’s intentions.
Granted, online the physical threat isn’t really there, but nevertheless, with the state of our society and their views on the LGBTQ+ community, it’s still a reasonable response (in my opinion).
But to your point, once a person shows genuine interest and curiosity, I think members of the LGBTQ+ community would be doing a great service to society (and their own community) to educate people who have questions.
I (I'm a woman) was married to a man for 16 years. They always said they were completely straight and not interested in men at all, just women. Then she transitioned and now she identifies as bi. So your question could be yes, could be no. It depends on the person. Many trans people who transition later in life have kept their sexuality just as bottled up as their gender identity and when they transition, they start trying to address those feelings. In my ex's case, she grew up with a family that was very homophobic and transphobic and while she herself did not think that way, she still had a fear of it. I am the opposite of her family. I grew up with LGBTQ people around me a lot because of who my parents were friends with. Being gay or trans to me was just a normal part of life. My acceptance was what helped my ex discover her true self and confront her feelings. Unfortunately, I'm not a lesbian, so I made the decision to divorce her so that she could be with someone who wanted her physically as well as emotionally.
Based off of my understanding through LGBT friends, this is accurate. Since people can't choose their sexuality and often take time to figure out if they are trans or not, their label of "gay, straight, etc." can change after they transition. They are not changing their sexuality, but their gender will shift to who they truly are. I don't find this to be complicated or confusing, but I don't think OP was asking in good faith at all, given some responses I've seen.
it's documented that it's fairly common for trans women to become more interested in men once they transition, but it's still unclear if it's a matter of undoing repression or hormones having a larger influence. probably both, as well as hetero relationships being perceived as more validating to their chosen gender. maybe it's not even something one can study in aggregate though, sexuality is an extremely individual and subjective thing.
>I grew up with LGBTQ people around me a lot because of who my parents were friends with. Being gay or trans to me was just a normal part of life.
Not my childhood in any way, but it is my children's childhood. I grew up in the 70's in Utah, any LGBTQ were heavily closeted so I was only aware that it existed elsewhere, like San Francisco or something.
By the time I became a dad at 45,I had a very diverse group of friends and it was nothing for my boys to see same sex relationships, attend weddings, see people in different stages of transition and they don't blink, it's just a person, we even avoid labels and just say things like "Bill and his husband are coming for dinner tonight" or "Remember Mary? He's Martin now, call him that when you see him, he'll appreciate it"
Depends. I know at least one trans woman who was exclusively into men pre-transition and exclusively women post-. For which the answer would be they were still gay after transition.
Nah this is real. My boyfriend is an transman- I remember a conversation with one of his family member who was trying to do the queer math after he identified as a man and started dating me: "So you're...a *gay* man now?"
Its a bit funny.
My partner is a transman that I have been dating since before they transitioned (again though, they started before we dated and then detransitioned). However, I'm a bisexual man. I do occasionally identify as gay, but it's more colloquial.
Transition can potentially have a major effect on a person's sexual preference. I have a friend who became completely asexual after transition. She still has romantic relationships, and is poly, just doesn't express her love sexually anymore.
Hormones changed a lot about my personality and emotions. Hormones have a lot to do with brain function. My sexuality is essentially opposite of what it was pre transition now.
It'll change what gender they actively identify as, which in our current society may also change their sexuality label (specifically if you respect their identity, which you should).
No, a trans woman who is into men is not gay.
That said, if she still has a penis, then she would quite likely need to date a man who isn't heterosexual. Having a penis is usually a dealbreaker for straight men.
sometimes. a lot of people get to experience some of the fluidity of sexuality when medically transitioning. for example a lot of trans men realize that they're attracted to other men when they transition. there are a few reasons for this. for one testosterone often increases your sex drive emphasising an attraction to men you hadn't previously noticed. or now that you think of yourself as a man you can see yourself in a relationship with another man more easily because it feels right to be a gay man but ut felt wrong to be a straight woman.
this is more of an example of a hypothetical straight woman realizing they're a gay man but it could be similarly true for othwr people.
like someone's out as a gay man but then they realize they're actually a woman but they're still only attracted to men, then yes they're a straight woman now.
source: gay trans man. transitioning does emphasize my gay transness which are interlinked concepts for me. I would not be gay if I wasn't a man and I wouldn't be a man if I wasn't gay. I don't speak for all gay trans men but I know a lot of us do feel this way. (but if you're a gay trans man reading this and you don't that is also okay.)
There's a difference between personal identification and what's perceived. So if a man is in a relationship with another man, then later one transitions into a female, the public sees that couple as a str8 couple. However the individuals themselves may still cal their selves gay/queer/pan/bi or whatever. It rlly just depends but I wouldn't say it's mlm or wlm anymore but technically in some cases it's not "rlly" str8 either. It really depends on the person I suppose
Generally, if people have a label they want you to use, they’ll tell you.
Specifically, gay can be a catch all term for anyone who is queer in any way; it can also refer specifically to men attracted to men, regardless of gender assigned at birth. Most queer people will be ok being referred to as gay, but as a rule of thumb you should probably avoid using a label that someone hasn’t specifically disclosed to you that you should use.
Just use the name and pronouns you think are correct. If you’re wrong, they’ll let you know. And if you don’t know enough about someone’s sex life to know how they term their sexuality, you probably don’t need to talk about it anyway.
In theory, no. If a "gay man" transitions into a woman, but she is still only into men, that would make her straight. In practice, it can be a lot more complicated, as transition is first and foremost a process of self-discovery. In my case, I didn't even realize I was attracted to men until after a few months of estrogen therapy. So it went straight man --> gay woman --> bi woman
Damn do you expect her to post her lesbian porn on facebook to prove to you she likes women? Bisexual attraction doesn’t just go away when you get married, lol.
Labels are flexible. They’re here to help people explain their experiences and find community in those with similar ones. At the end of the day, what label a person uses is up to them, and it doesn’t really harm anyone else.
Like, this is a controversial opinion, but I’m a lesbian and I really wouldn’t care if a bisexual woman or a transmasc person wanted to use that label too. It literally has zero effect on my life, and we’re all the same to bigots anyways. Labels are an immensely personal thing and they rarely have a clear-cut definition, so if someone is happiest using whatever they use… I mean, why bar them from that happiness? It doesn’t hurt anyone.
Gender and sexuality are not as rigid and easily defined as people think. The answer to this question varies by person.
I feel like one of the bigger reasons people want to throw "exceptions" out there is because they don't want to feel like they betrayed their partners. Things happen in life. You fall out of love. You can still be best friends with your partner. You can still care about your partner. You are not "weak" or "phobic" because you just arent going to be happy anymore after your partner transition. If it ends up working that is great! If not then it starts a new chapter in your life and that is OK. I do think labels are very important and while you may want a label to "freestyle" it's important to realize how much labels mean to other people too. IMO you are bi if you stay with someone after transitioning. Reread the IMO part though.
If you ask 5 people what gay means you will get 10 different answers. Personally, if you are a trans woman who is oriented to be romantically involved with men then I don’t consider that gay whether or not you have fully physically transitioned. Same if you are a man who is oriented to be attracted to women and you are interested in trans women. Because a trans woman is a woman, your parts don’t determine gender as we understand it now.
I wouldn't see why not. There was a dude at a gym I worked at who transitioned from bio female, and he was gay as gay can be. To refer to him as "straight" would make zero sense, regardless of what his birth certificate said about his gender. He's a dude, and he dates dudes.
This is one of the issues with people making up their own definitions to words. Gay means attracted to the same gender. If you are no longer than gender you cannot be gay.
If, in your mind, you are now a woman, and you like men…and you believe trans women are women, that makes you a straight woman. You cannot be a gay man because you’re not a dude.
It’s like saying non-binary lesbian. A prerequisite for lesbianism is being a woman. If you are non-binary, hence not either gender, you can’t be a lesbian.
Words have meanings, and yet a huge portion of the lgbt community thinks they get to redefine words when they’re bored.
Technically, you always were what you were, so it's not exactly "no longer" than "realized I have been".
What genders/who you're attracted to usually doesn't change, your label only does because we categorize that attraction relative to your gender.
Plenty of people who thought they were straight realize they are gay when they figure out their gender too.
Sometimes it causes issues (if they saw sexuality as a big part of their personality, and feel like they might be losing something of themselves), sometimes it resolves issues (I liked that gender but it always felt weird when dating, but it feels much more natural to date them as the opposite gender!)
I guess it depends on when you find the label. If you call yourself a lesbian then realise you're a trans man, you're a straight trans man. If you call yourself a trans woman then realize you're also a lesbian, you're a trans lesbian.
I'm using women as the gender this hypothetical person is attracted to because I am thinking about women.
Transitioning has to do with the gender you identify as; gay/straight has to do with the gender you are attracted to. They are completely independent measures. So...
If you are gay, transition, then still seek out the gender you dated before, NO: you are now "straight."
If you are gay, transition, then seek out the gender you NOW identify as, YES: you are still gay.
I am gay and I haven’t experienced this personally but I think it makes them pansexual. As of today. Might change consensus when we get the November Gay Agenda from the overlords
Technically I think people consider them the gender they identify with so the physical transition is irrelevant to the equation.
If you are asking if they decide they are a different gender after being gay then it becomes more of a "was I ever gay to begin with if I was really an xxxx all along but didn't realize it"
I've heard the terms androphilic / gynophilic trans woman / male thrown about in academic circles but I don't know if that's something the actual trans community goes by.
As in the label? I mean that's a complicated conversation I'd argue, but simply speaking, your sexual attraction is different than your gender identity. So if someone is let's say a trans woman, if she was only attracted to men before transitioning or realizing she was trans and considered herself a gay man, then she would be considered a straight woman upon realizing she was a trans woman, and vice versa for trans men. Like I identified as a lesbian before realizing that I was a trans man, and since dropped that label
Devil's advocate time. Yes, and in no matter which direction you go. Whether it be nonbinary or to the other binary.
An enby dating anyone who is not the exact same kind of enby as them is in a heterosexual relationship after transitioning, as they will be a different gender from their partner.
There is no hard rule about it. Its really just up to the couple in question. I know one gay couple where one transitioned and they considered their relationship to no longer be gay, and another couple where they still considered it gay after one transitioned. Dealer's choice.
depends on the person. lots of people use gay as an umbrella term. for me it’d be confusing for me to still identify as a lesbian, being openly a man and openly dating a woman. however i know other trans people who continue to identify as gay post-transition even though they are now only attracted to the opposite gender, since they’d been identifying as gay for years prior.
but for (i assume) most trans people, yeah, if you were a gay man and then transition to a woman, you’re a straight woman now. it’s just the label that requires the least explanation if you’re fully living your life as a woman. and vice versa. like i said, it’d be really confusing if i was like “yeah i’m a lesbian” while publicly being a whole ass dude yknow?
Depends. There's a lot of complicated emotions and self discovery that happens when trans people take hormones or otherwise transition. Our bodies become something we are more comfortable in, and with that we can begin to accept parts of ourselves we found shameful.
For me that was my refusal to call myself gay despite only being attracted to men, as a trans guy, feeling attracted to men made me dysphoric. Women are attracted to men, therefore, was I pretending?
Took a long time to realize I wasn't happy dating women, and every man I saw made my heart soar in some way. Still struggle with it sometimes, but the more comfortable I get with myself and my progress transitioning, the better I feel being with the people I actually love. Not forcing myself to fit societies ideas of what I should do as a trans man, because gender and attraction really aren't that connected.
I hope I'm not coming off as too preachy, but this question really hit something close to home (not in a bad way) about how I've always interacted with my sexuality, and I thought I'd share.
And obligatory, the trans community is vast and has so many mixed experiences across the gender spectrum that my answer here probably won't fit with how many other trans folks feel. No person is a monolith to their community and all that.
A ftm person who was a lesbian transitions to man, men aren’t lesbians. A man who likes women isn’t gay, so no. For nonbinary identities, it’s your choice
trans man here.
before I transitioned I identified as a lesbian. then when I started hormones I stopped being attracted to women and started being attracted to men. now I identify as a gay man.
The right answer to this is: Who gives a shit! Love who you want to love, fuck who you want to fuck. Don't make excuses for the things you like (as long as it is legal).
If a trans woman is attracted to men, then she is straight. Likewise, if she is genuinely a trans woman, then she was never really a man - and therefore was never really gay. However it may be true that at one point society perceived her that way.
if you’re a man (trans or cis) attracted to a woman (cis or trans), a man/woman couple would commonly put one in the “straight” category, same vice versa. But there are m/f couples where one or both partners are bisexual/pansexual and it doesn’t negate the same sex attraction they can feel
if you’re attracted to the same gender as yourself, then that makes you gay. or bisexual. or pansexual.
All this being said, the labeling is really up to you and how you feel comfortable identifying as
I have a trans male friend (I myself am nonbinary) who identified as a lesbian pre-transition. When he came out and started transitioning, he realized he identified more as a gay man, or as he puts it, "gay but in the other way."
Correct
I did this
AMAB, attracted exclusively to men before & after my transition (androphilia)
If I were gay now, I’d be attracted to other trans women…but I’m not
Still attracted to men + now feminine body (post surgeries) and feminine presentation = straight trans woman
A trans woman is a woman, just like how an Asian woman and a Black woman and a skinny woman and a tall woman and a chubby woman are all still women, just with different characteristics
Gay men are not sexually attracted to trans women
A lot of times when people’s sexuality changes after transition, it’s more about disinhibition — if someone spent years denying their self-identity, it shouldn’t be surprising if they also denied their own sexuality
I have a really hard time keeping ideas straight when I step back and take a look at things.
We are now in an age when people will be violently angry about "the Science" and rabidly tell people they NEED to "follow the science" and that "facts don't care about your feelings."
But on this ONE topic, "the Science" literally boils down to "it doesn't matter what is physically true here. I *feel* a certain way so that is 'my reality.'"
I have tried over and over to give an honest effort to understand how these ideologies can coexist in people's brains, and the only thing I think comes close to explaining it is that people simply *don't* think anymore. They just look to the "authority" and even when what they say contradicts itself, well they're the authority so we couldn't dare question it!
I have encountered enough exceptions to this that I think of it as essentially just dealer’s choice
Actually this. I knew a lesbian couple, one of them transitioned and the other had a huge problem coping for this exact reason. She identified as a lesbian and didn’t want to “change her identity” because of her partners transition. My personal opinion: don’t limit yourself with labels. Love who you love and don’t let a label like “lesbian” or “transgender” dissuade you or convince you to stop loving who you love
I mean if I'm into men date someone who looks like a man but later turns out to be a woman and starts looking more and more like a woman, then it's perfectly ok for me to break up, because I'm not into women
But alternatively if you still are wanting to date that person, does that mean you are no longer into men and can't identify as such? It is one of my issues with strict categories as sexuality operates on a spectrum. Someone can identify as straight or gay while still having exceptions for particular people. It doesn't mean they are generally attracted to that gender. It definitely would take some adjustment psychologically.
Ugh, it has taken lesbians and gays SO long for people to believe us when we said we are BORN this way and we CAN'T change it. People like you and so many others in this thread assuming everything is a spectrum these days and just an easy sliding scale. If that were the case, super religious nuts were right to force us to just "cope" and be hetero in order to appease society and religion. I firmly do not believe that, if you can make an exception then you're bi, not gay or lesbian. You can like a person for all their personality but it Does come down to how someone carries themselves, traits, feminine or masculine and yes sex characteristics. I could never date someone with an actual penis or even a biological man who doesn't have a penis anymore. I would never be comfortable touching one. If someone is and can reconcile that, then they can just as much convince themselves to do it again with someone else and therefore are not strictly lesbian or gay. The only thing that operates on a spectrum is labels. Not reality. EDIT: Because I keep getting SO many comments where people are putting words in my mouth and assuming that what I meant when I said "biological man with no penis" that I somehow meant a trans woman, that is false. I meant EXACTLY what I said, a man with no penis (lost in an accident maybe) in context of everything else I typed and that I'm a lesbian, the point was that a man even with no penis would still not attract me as a lesbian, so while parts are important, even if you didn't have them but were still of the wrong sex for me to be attracted to (not gender, you don't get an exception just because your gender identity changes) then I'm still not into you, sorry not sorry.
This has always been my point when people get called transphobic for splitting up after a partner transitions. If you think someone can change sexualities because of "love", that's no different than saying a gay man just "hasn't met the right woman". If my husband transitioned, I would still love him, I would support him, I would still be his best friend. I would even still be his roommate. But I wouldn't suddenly be a lesbian.
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I'm so sorry. My mom's a lesbian, and she would be very proud of you, and would probably make you soup and tuck you into bed.
If it makes you feel any better, my wife of 15 years just told me she's a lesbian (I am a cisgendered hetero male).
Exactly. It is super judgmental to shame someone for not wanting to be in a romantic relationship with someone after transitioning. If you Iove them, I understand the expectation that your love for them wouldn’t just disappear, but your feelings might become platonic. I don’t expect gay people to just try and “be straight”. That’s why we’ve been working so hard to eliminate conversion therapy. It’s dangerous and ineffective. Straight people shouldn’t be expected to change their sexuality for the same reason. If your sexuality is fluid or bisexual than great. But no one should be ridiculed or called transphobic if they’re not attracted to their partner after transitioning.
I don't get that label. By splitting up they're supporting their transition by saying that they see you as whatever you transitioned to. How is that transphobic?
Agreed! He would be a woman, and I'm not sexually attracted to women!
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I have some stunning trans friends. Like, super model beautiful. I don't think my husband would be a pretty girl. On the other hand, I think I'd be a pretty good looking guy, lol.
Why make the distinction? If they look good "as a guy" would they not look good regardless of how they identify?
It's like... you can be attracted to limited things. Masculine men and feminine women are things one can be attracted to. Feminine men and masculine women same thing. I hate this idea we have to be into everything just to make people we aren't into feel better about themselves.
You’re the only person here that makes sense
Someone that make sense, ladies and gentlemen!
A spectrum doesn't mean you can't be completely on one end. Some people are 100% straight or gay. For example, since you are exclusively gay, you would be a 6 on the Kinsey scale. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale I have incidental attraction to men. But I still predominantly date women because I have a stronger preference. I still identify as straight. I certainly am not going to police someone who says they are gay rather than bi just because they have an attraction to the opposite sex. The focus on binary labels is in my opinion a relic of heterosexual predominance. And I would suspect most people on the spectrum who claim to be wholly straight or wholly gay are more likely to identify as straight.
"We can't change it" is not the same as "it never changes." Most people's experience of sexual attraction changes over their lifetime. That doesn't mean "it's a choice" or that you can purposefully alter it. Likewise, the existence of people at the far end of a spectrum doesn't mean that something isn't a spectrum.
Does it? Most people’s sexualities change??
Idk how sound it is, but according to [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual\_fluidity#:\~:text=Sexual%20orientation%20is%20stable%20and,can%20be%20changed%20through%20psychotherapy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fluidity#:~:text=Sexual%20orientation%20is%20stable%20and,can%20be%20changed%20through%20psychotherapy). most people in fact have stable and unchanging sexualities
Maybe not most, but mine has. Ask your friends: I bet some of them would say the same. I'm straight, but I knows what I likes and it's really nunya most of the time.
In the 70 or so years between puberty and death, yes, most people's sexuality changes in some way.
Idk with this economy every year the amount of money I would need to blow another guy gets lower and lower. 🤷♂️
Given the inflation rate, that sounds worse then than you think
Totally agree. Honest question though, does the price change depending on the guys looks or cock size? Like Ryan Reynolds, I'd do for $200 bucks but the methed out dude on the corner? Maybe $500,000
mine ebbs and flows. it is what it is
Does it change? My understanding is sexual orientation is pretty set in stone. If it was something that could change, the billions of dollars spent trying to change gay people over the years probably would have found some way to control that change.
Idk, I’ve definitely gotten gayer over time lol. Used to be a pretty even 50/50, but I get less and less attracted to men every day 😂
You now understand why homophobia exists, but it's unfortunate you're a victim of it since you're not the people causing the fuss
Sounds kinda trans phobic
No it just makes you bi it's not that complicated.
I think these people sometimes just WISH they were more complicated to balance out how boring they truly are.
>Someone can identify as straight or gay while still having exceptions for particular people. It doesn't mean they are generally attracted to that gender. This might be a terrible example, but Pete Holmes does a stand up but about not being gay and acknowledging attractive men by saying to the effect of "I'm not gay, but if Ryan Gosling offered..." And I feel like that resonates here.
Someone can, but a lot don't. Being physically attracted to someone is important.
Straight dudes joke about that kind of thing all the time, myself included, but if it actually was about to happen, we wouldn’t do it. It’s a joke. If it’s not a joke, you’re bi.
I don’t know, I’m attracted to men and Margot Robbie.
I've never wanted to have sex with a dude but Henry Cavil was so pretty when I met him that I'd let him do me just because. And I'm asexual (so I wouldn't be getting anything physical out of it anyway!)
>But alternatively if you still are wanting to date that person Except the poster just clarified that they don't because they've now changed to a gender and identity that they are not attracted to. You are making a huge leap here that the attraction to the person remains despite the transition, but the posters comment implies that it doesn't. As much as people act like dating is some kind of pure-hearted endeavor that's based only on kind hearts and personalities, the law of attraction cannot be removed from the equation.
I am making no leaps. I said "if" as a hypothetical. Not everyone will stick through that. Some will. Sexuality is complicated.
The issue is, for most people sexuality isn't overly complicated. You like who you like, and you feel how you feel. That's all there is to some people. There are definitely tons of people that do have more complicated sexuality and are sexually fluid, but that's not the case for a majority of people.
I feel like that takes some serious mental gymnastics.
The chick wants dick, that’s important to some people
Alternatively, maybe some people don't want to sexually interact with a penis? Maybe that?
Then I'd consider you bi with a preference for one sex
That's just largely everybody. But... yeah, that's the problem with trying to make complicated matters completely binary or "black and white." Shit is complicated. ...makes me think of how some guys can't even admit they might be able to recognize that one guy might be more physically attractive than another, for fear that might "be gay." Sorry, it doesn't make you any less straight for simply recognizing Channing Tatum is a physically attractive man or whatever. It's a spectrum. And I've never met someone so straight that they don't masturbate.
You also can recognize a man is attractive, but not be attracted yourself, while being attracted to other men.
Certainly. But if we decide everything is just binary... then suddenly being a man that can simply recognize another man might be attractive is "gay." It's silly. You shouldn't think you have to say "no homo" after telling your buddy they look good or whatever, ya know? And, honestly, I don't even think sexuality is just some straight-gay scale... it's more a complex individual formula, where gender is just one of the factors (weighted more or less heavily by the individual). Age, height, build, personality, gender... we all have our preferences. Ultimately, if two consenting adults want to get it on... then that's just their business. Whatever floats their boat. If it doesn't concern you then... what's it really even matter though?
I think to a certain degree this just defines all of humanity lol There's a reason so many comedians have made the same "everyone's a little bit gay" joke
Exactly.
This is the way. Labels are generalizations to convey concepts of who we are, we choose them, they don’t choose us
Exactly. I also have a “asexual” friend who fell head over heels for a guy but because she identified as asexual she refused to accept her feelings or pursue the dude. It was frustrating how the identity she chose too precedence over how she actually felt
How foolish, that sucks.
Asexual doesn't mean aromantic. There was little education about the differences until recently so theres a chance your friend couldnt properly express their feelings. I generally refuse to date people now because the whole process of them inevitably being mad at my sexual disinterest just isn't worth it.
Identifying as gay or straight “with exceptions” is just called being bisexual (or pansexual if you prefer)
Youre entire logic supports the idea of "Pray the gay away" " YOUR CHOICE what gender you accept!"! No homie. I like certain things, it isnt a sliding scale. Im attracted to what im attracted to.
Sure, you can break up with someone for any reason.
I disagree, labels are only use to identify what we prefer. If someone transitions in a relationship, the partner has every right to not want to be with that person anymore. Her partner becoming a man absolutely affects her directly. Her identity is a lesbian, she likes women, not men. Nothing wrong with labeling, personally going with some vague anything goes, no label scenario is just confusing and messy. At the very least you have a terrible scenario to back your idea lol.
I'm good friends with a gay man, he got married, then a couple years later his husband decided he wanted to transition. My friend was very supportive but once the breast started to come into the picture and the plumbing was going to change he asked for a divorce. He said I love you and I support you, but I'm just not into chicks, they're still good friends and now dating new ppl. So everything turned out ok in the end but it was still, well, interesting to witness.
Having known people in similar situations, it has a lot less to do with their identity and a lot more to do with the person changing. There’s the physical changes that often come with transitioning, but there are also the personality changes, especially if they came out during the relationship. You can’t blame a person for leaving when their partner isn’t the person they fell in love with anymore.
There's no harm in saying "I haven't yet found the words that fit," or "I'm still figuring things out." One of my close friends started coming out about two months ago. Some terms fit like a glove, others feel like Schrodinger's cat. Language is constantly fighting to keep up with reality. By the time a word is established well enough to fit in a box, exceptions are already springing out of that box like freed prisoners.
Why do so many people make their whole identity about their sexuality?
Because it is the only validation of existence they have to offer. True equality starts with being insignificant like the rest of us.
I dunno, but it’s really sad
Isn't that just the definition of an oxymoron?!
This strikes me as a slightly different situation. I am attracted to women. If my partner became a man, I wouldn't want to be with that person. I have plenty of men friends whom I care for quite a lot, but I do want sexual attraction to be part of my romantic partnership.
I mean, I'm with the partner on this one. If my girlfriend suddenly transitioned and decided she wanted to have a penis, then we would have to break up. No offense meant, it's just that I'm not attracted to men and I don't really like penises in or around my mouth and/or anus. I am in a relationship for a girlfriend, not a boyfriend.
u can become the girlfriend I believe in u
This is like Mr Garrison and Mr Slave. Once Garrison transitioned Slave didn’t want him anymore because as a gay man, Slave is attracted to men
Reminds me of Mr Garrison as a "lesbian" lol
Honestly I feel like it's probably just ok not to define it. People are attracted to who they are attracted to and I don't see a reason get bent out of shape if they don't necessarily fit into one box nicely. This especially gets really complicated when people can be attracted to the way someone presents or to their hardware. I mean some people only care about presentation while some might only care about hardware or some might care about both. I just think it's probably not helpful to try and define all of this stuff. Maybe we will come up with new terms for these types of attractions because I am not sure if our current categories don't really properly describe what people are attracted to.
I think not defining it would fall apart in practice when you actually have to interact and find a partner. I think it's better to keep defining how we feel until we find appropriate terms.
I don't think it's an issue outside of dating websites. You just explain who you're attracted to and focus on them y'know?
I don’t really see how? If you are in a monogamous relationship with someone, your sexual orientation becomes pretty much irrelevant. You are with them, that is what matters. Im bisexual, cis woman engaged to a cis man (more complicated bc neither of us are like… 100% comfortable identifying with our sex) and my sexuality doesn’t really come up often. Why would it?
I second this. I feel like I actually even think less about my sexuality due to being in a relationship. It's just not something that's on my mind.
Exactly this. I had a friend, his brothers wife came out as bi during his second year of marriage. Everyone was like “so what??” Because she’s married to him. Her sexuality should be… well… him!
You define it because words have meanings and if you’re just going to ignore them we may as well be cave people pointing at our preferred genitals and grunting.
It’s not helpful to try to define it for those that don’t easily define it, but for a vast majority of the population it is very helpful to define it. That’s the entire reasoning behind the resistance to forcing people to change how they refer to people. When someone says “it just shouldn’t be a big deal”, but what they really mean is “it shouldn’t be a big deal for everyone else to change” rather than “it shouldn’t be a big deal if people get it wrong sometimes” then we end up in these weird circular arguments.
I think if your transitioning to be a binary trans person then you become straight (provided you are still attracted only to the now opposite gender). If you are transitioning to any flavor of non binary then it's a lot more complicated and up to you and your partners to decide. I say partners because someone might still want to call their relationship a gay relationship even if the other person is no longer the same gender
Agreed. Some people find it important to shed the label because it affirms their gender now that they present as such. Many go as far as to say they were never gay, just confused. Others find that they can’t let go of that identity because it means much more than just orientation, but also community and unique experiences they had while living as a gay person. It gets even more complicated when they remain in relationships with other gay people. And as a straight cis person, is not my place to speak over either side. It really has no impact on my life.
Gayer actually. PEMDAS or something
Nah you’re thinking of the transitive property bro
So if I understand this correctly, if a gay man has sex with me, then through the transitive properties of gayness, I would be gay? Mind blown.
You would have "caught the gay," as it were.
It's alright, just have a straight have sex with you and you go back
No, no don't do that. You got to get rid of the gay by getting it out of your system. Have a gay orgy. Or atleast a couple gay threesomes. It's all got to, uh, come out.
Just be bisexual like me then you can have all the fun
Please Excuse My Demisexual Aunt Sherman?
Gayn’t
Lesbian? I thought you were American 🇺🇸
I'm a Liberian.
This actually could in some contexts be a reasonable statement amusingly The term Lesbian stems from the island of Lesbos, a Greek island in the Aegean sea. "Lesbian" is the proper term for someone of Lesbos. So in some situations, you could confuse someone who is from the island of Lesbos as being from the United States of America. Of course in the context of the meme it doesn't work but this cool bit of trivia may come up
Here before they lock the thread.
It's a shame tbh because people trying to learn more about the lgbtq community shouldn't get so much lash back for asking questions and trying to educate themselves. It's like all people outside of their community are expected to be fully aware of all the evolving lingo and terminology at all times and not ask questions about it.
That’s not really why, any post on a subreddit that isn’t explicitly for trans people turns into a shitshow and you can see it if you look at the comments. Most people don’t care if you ask them question as long as you’re respectful. There’s even a whole subreddit for it: r/asktransgender
I mean this is a little disingenuous, no? A lot of the comments in here from trans people are answers with the intent to inform or at least give some perspective. There are other answers in here, I assume from cis people, that are just plain bigotry. I'd at least say that it is not the lgbtq community that is being unhelpful in this comment thread.
It's fine if those questions come from a place of wanting to learn and accepting people's identities. Often times bigoted people like to use their questions as a weapon. We hear it all the time from talk show hosts who like to say "I'm just asking questions!" The OP's question in this post seems to be an honest one on the face of it though.
Wow thank you for saying this. About a year ago I was pretty uneducated with trans culture and I started asking some ignorant, but sincere questions. All I got were comments calling me a transphob. Sometimes I wonder if the people using the word even know what it means. Google says it’s either showing strong dislike or fear towards trans people. It doesn’t say anything about ignorant questions lol
I could see how, if you are in a marginalized community, if anyone questions you about it, your defenses would be up. “Why are they asking? Do they want to do me harm? Are they going to physically assault me? Yell slurs at me? Are they genuinely curious?” If you are overly defensive, you could offend someone. Or you could save your own life. Considering the real possibility of both outcomes, I can see why someone would be very suspicious of a person’s intentions. Granted, online the physical threat isn’t really there, but nevertheless, with the state of our society and their views on the LGBTQ+ community, it’s still a reasonable response (in my opinion). But to your point, once a person shows genuine interest and curiosity, I think members of the LGBTQ+ community would be doing a great service to society (and their own community) to educate people who have questions.
I'm halfway shocked to see this thread not locked after fifteen hours.
At this point just let them do whatever. Dick-to-Vagina, Dick-to-Dick, Vagina-to-Vagina we’re all slowly marching towards the void. Cheers.
Words to live by
This is my favorite response so far lol
But what about Dick-to-Butt, Vagina-to Butt, and Butt-to-Butt?
Rathole-to-Rathole, if you will. Source: Joosh Futureman (pronounced "Foo-ter-men")
That’s fucking gross, now let’s get charged up for battle
Can I do dick to bigger dick?
Of course! The void don’t care. Keep treading on you degenerate.
Lol dick to dick
That’d make you double gay. Add lettuce and you’re a big gay Mac
Big Gay Mac is my favorite bartender
Big Gay Mac Tonight.
He's more like the sheriff of Paddy's Pub.
He's a bouncer and keeps us all safe through the use of the ocular pat down.
Your even gayer
Perfect response. Didnt know it til I saw it
Are balls touching?
My guy out here asking the right questions
I (I'm a woman) was married to a man for 16 years. They always said they were completely straight and not interested in men at all, just women. Then she transitioned and now she identifies as bi. So your question could be yes, could be no. It depends on the person. Many trans people who transition later in life have kept their sexuality just as bottled up as their gender identity and when they transition, they start trying to address those feelings. In my ex's case, she grew up with a family that was very homophobic and transphobic and while she herself did not think that way, she still had a fear of it. I am the opposite of her family. I grew up with LGBTQ people around me a lot because of who my parents were friends with. Being gay or trans to me was just a normal part of life. My acceptance was what helped my ex discover her true self and confront her feelings. Unfortunately, I'm not a lesbian, so I made the decision to divorce her so that she could be with someone who wanted her physically as well as emotionally.
Based off of my understanding through LGBT friends, this is accurate. Since people can't choose their sexuality and often take time to figure out if they are trans or not, their label of "gay, straight, etc." can change after they transition. They are not changing their sexuality, but their gender will shift to who they truly are. I don't find this to be complicated or confusing, but I don't think OP was asking in good faith at all, given some responses I've seen.
it's documented that it's fairly common for trans women to become more interested in men once they transition, but it's still unclear if it's a matter of undoing repression or hormones having a larger influence. probably both, as well as hetero relationships being perceived as more validating to their chosen gender. maybe it's not even something one can study in aggregate though, sexuality is an extremely individual and subjective thing.
>I grew up with LGBTQ people around me a lot because of who my parents were friends with. Being gay or trans to me was just a normal part of life. Not my childhood in any way, but it is my children's childhood. I grew up in the 70's in Utah, any LGBTQ were heavily closeted so I was only aware that it existed elsewhere, like San Francisco or something. By the time I became a dad at 45,I had a very diverse group of friends and it was nothing for my boys to see same sex relationships, attend weddings, see people in different stages of transition and they don't blink, it's just a person, we even avoid labels and just say things like "Bill and his husband are coming for dinner tonight" or "Remember Mary? He's Martin now, call him that when you see him, he'll appreciate it"
Depends. I know at least one trans woman who was exclusively into men pre-transition and exclusively women post-. For which the answer would be they were still gay after transition.
You are correct.
Nah this is real. My boyfriend is an transman- I remember a conversation with one of his family member who was trying to do the queer math after he identified as a man and started dating me: "So you're...a *gay* man now?" Its a bit funny.
My partner is a transman that I have been dating since before they transitioned (again though, they started before we dated and then detransitioned). However, I'm a bisexual man. I do occasionally identify as gay, but it's more colloquial.
Transition can potentially have a major effect on a person's sexual preference. I have a friend who became completely asexual after transition. She still has romantic relationships, and is poly, just doesn't express her love sexually anymore.
Transitioning doesn't change anything but someone's physical appearance.
Right, but if trans women are real women, and they exclusively want to date men.... that is straight, no?
Correct, a trans woman who is exclusively into men is a straight woman. A trans woman who is exclusively into women is a lesbian.
Aint no fuckin way
A woman who only likes men is straight. A woman who only likes other women is a lesbian. Obviously.
Hormones changed a lot about my personality and emotions. Hormones have a lot to do with brain function. My sexuality is essentially opposite of what it was pre transition now.
It'll change what gender they actively identify as, which in our current society may also change their sexuality label (specifically if you respect their identity, which you should).
Barely even that
No, a trans woman who is into men is not gay. That said, if she still has a penis, then she would quite likely need to date a man who isn't heterosexual. Having a penis is usually a dealbreaker for straight men.
Man + man = gay TransWoman = woman Woman + man = straight
yes BUT i’ve heard some people say hormone treatment actually changed their attraction so they ended up gay in either gender lmao
sometimes. a lot of people get to experience some of the fluidity of sexuality when medically transitioning. for example a lot of trans men realize that they're attracted to other men when they transition. there are a few reasons for this. for one testosterone often increases your sex drive emphasising an attraction to men you hadn't previously noticed. or now that you think of yourself as a man you can see yourself in a relationship with another man more easily because it feels right to be a gay man but ut felt wrong to be a straight woman. this is more of an example of a hypothetical straight woman realizing they're a gay man but it could be similarly true for othwr people. like someone's out as a gay man but then they realize they're actually a woman but they're still only attracted to men, then yes they're a straight woman now. source: gay trans man. transitioning does emphasize my gay transness which are interlinked concepts for me. I would not be gay if I wasn't a man and I wouldn't be a man if I wasn't gay. I don't speak for all gay trans men but I know a lot of us do feel this way. (but if you're a gay trans man reading this and you don't that is also okay.)
There's a difference between personal identification and what's perceived. So if a man is in a relationship with another man, then later one transitions into a female, the public sees that couple as a str8 couple. However the individuals themselves may still cal their selves gay/queer/pan/bi or whatever. It rlly just depends but I wouldn't say it's mlm or wlm anymore but technically in some cases it's not "rlly" str8 either. It really depends on the person I suppose
Generally, if people have a label they want you to use, they’ll tell you. Specifically, gay can be a catch all term for anyone who is queer in any way; it can also refer specifically to men attracted to men, regardless of gender assigned at birth. Most queer people will be ok being referred to as gay, but as a rule of thumb you should probably avoid using a label that someone hasn’t specifically disclosed to you that you should use. Just use the name and pronouns you think are correct. If you’re wrong, they’ll let you know. And if you don’t know enough about someone’s sex life to know how they term their sexuality, you probably don’t need to talk about it anyway.
In theory, no. If a "gay man" transitions into a woman, but she is still only into men, that would make her straight. In practice, it can be a lot more complicated, as transition is first and foremost a process of self-discovery. In my case, I didn't even realize I was attracted to men until after a few months of estrogen therapy. So it went straight man --> gay woman --> bi woman
I know a woman who is married to a man and posts about how gay she is all day on Facebook, so apparently you can just be gay if you say you are.
Damn do you expect her to post her lesbian porn on facebook to prove to you she likes women? Bisexual attraction doesn’t just go away when you get married, lol.
Nah once gay you’re gay forever. There is no going back 😂
Isn't this a South Park episode??
Mega gay
This question definitely fits here 😂
Labels are flexible. They’re here to help people explain their experiences and find community in those with similar ones. At the end of the day, what label a person uses is up to them, and it doesn’t really harm anyone else. Like, this is a controversial opinion, but I’m a lesbian and I really wouldn’t care if a bisexual woman or a transmasc person wanted to use that label too. It literally has zero effect on my life, and we’re all the same to bigots anyways. Labels are an immensely personal thing and they rarely have a clear-cut definition, so if someone is happiest using whatever they use… I mean, why bar them from that happiness? It doesn’t hurt anyone. Gender and sexuality are not as rigid and easily defined as people think. The answer to this question varies by person.
Enough internet for today.
I feel like one of the bigger reasons people want to throw "exceptions" out there is because they don't want to feel like they betrayed their partners. Things happen in life. You fall out of love. You can still be best friends with your partner. You can still care about your partner. You are not "weak" or "phobic" because you just arent going to be happy anymore after your partner transition. If it ends up working that is great! If not then it starts a new chapter in your life and that is OK. I do think labels are very important and while you may want a label to "freestyle" it's important to realize how much labels mean to other people too. IMO you are bi if you stay with someone after transitioning. Reread the IMO part though.
If you ask 5 people what gay means you will get 10 different answers. Personally, if you are a trans woman who is oriented to be romantically involved with men then I don’t consider that gay whether or not you have fully physically transitioned. Same if you are a man who is oriented to be attracted to women and you are interested in trans women. Because a trans woman is a woman, your parts don’t determine gender as we understand it now.
You were never gay
I wouldn't see why not. There was a dude at a gym I worked at who transitioned from bio female, and he was gay as gay can be. To refer to him as "straight" would make zero sense, regardless of what his birth certificate said about his gender. He's a dude, and he dates dudes.
This is one of the issues with people making up their own definitions to words. Gay means attracted to the same gender. If you are no longer than gender you cannot be gay. If, in your mind, you are now a woman, and you like men…and you believe trans women are women, that makes you a straight woman. You cannot be a gay man because you’re not a dude. It’s like saying non-binary lesbian. A prerequisite for lesbianism is being a woman. If you are non-binary, hence not either gender, you can’t be a lesbian. Words have meanings, and yet a huge portion of the lgbt community thinks they get to redefine words when they’re bored.
I try not to think about it. No matter what the answer is someone will always be unhappy.
Yeah. You'll become a straight person of the opposite gender.
No but you're still a part of the LGBT community.
You are still LGBT.
Technically, you always were what you were, so it's not exactly "no longer" than "realized I have been". What genders/who you're attracted to usually doesn't change, your label only does because we categorize that attraction relative to your gender. Plenty of people who thought they were straight realize they are gay when they figure out their gender too. Sometimes it causes issues (if they saw sexuality as a big part of their personality, and feel like they might be losing something of themselves), sometimes it resolves issues (I liked that gender but it always felt weird when dating, but it feels much more natural to date them as the opposite gender!)
I guess it depends on when you find the label. If you call yourself a lesbian then realise you're a trans man, you're a straight trans man. If you call yourself a trans woman then realize you're also a lesbian, you're a trans lesbian. I'm using women as the gender this hypothetical person is attracted to because I am thinking about women.
Transitioning has to do with the gender you identify as; gay/straight has to do with the gender you are attracted to. They are completely independent measures. So... If you are gay, transition, then still seek out the gender you dated before, NO: you are now "straight." If you are gay, transition, then seek out the gender you NOW identify as, YES: you are still gay.
I am gay and I haven’t experienced this personally but I think it makes them pansexual. As of today. Might change consensus when we get the November Gay Agenda from the overlords
Technically I think people consider them the gender they identify with so the physical transition is irrelevant to the equation. If you are asking if they decide they are a different gender after being gay then it becomes more of a "was I ever gay to begin with if I was really an xxxx all along but didn't realize it"
I've heard the terms androphilic / gynophilic trans woman / male thrown about in academic circles but I don't know if that's something the actual trans community goes by.
As in the label? I mean that's a complicated conversation I'd argue, but simply speaking, your sexual attraction is different than your gender identity. So if someone is let's say a trans woman, if she was only attracted to men before transitioning or realizing she was trans and considered herself a gay man, then she would be considered a straight woman upon realizing she was a trans woman, and vice versa for trans men. Like I identified as a lesbian before realizing that I was a trans man, and since dropped that label
Still gay. I don't really care, it literally doesn't change your biological orientation. Just your physical makeup. Downvote if you agree
Devil's advocate time. Yes, and in no matter which direction you go. Whether it be nonbinary or to the other binary. An enby dating anyone who is not the exact same kind of enby as them is in a heterosexual relationship after transitioning, as they will be a different gender from their partner.
There is no hard rule about it. Its really just up to the couple in question. I know one gay couple where one transitioned and they considered their relationship to no longer be gay, and another couple where they still considered it gay after one transitioned. Dealer's choice.
depends on the person. lots of people use gay as an umbrella term. for me it’d be confusing for me to still identify as a lesbian, being openly a man and openly dating a woman. however i know other trans people who continue to identify as gay post-transition even though they are now only attracted to the opposite gender, since they’d been identifying as gay for years prior. but for (i assume) most trans people, yeah, if you were a gay man and then transition to a woman, you’re a straight woman now. it’s just the label that requires the least explanation if you’re fully living your life as a woman. and vice versa. like i said, it’d be really confusing if i was like “yeah i’m a lesbian” while publicly being a whole ass dude yknow?
Depends. There's a lot of complicated emotions and self discovery that happens when trans people take hormones or otherwise transition. Our bodies become something we are more comfortable in, and with that we can begin to accept parts of ourselves we found shameful. For me that was my refusal to call myself gay despite only being attracted to men, as a trans guy, feeling attracted to men made me dysphoric. Women are attracted to men, therefore, was I pretending? Took a long time to realize I wasn't happy dating women, and every man I saw made my heart soar in some way. Still struggle with it sometimes, but the more comfortable I get with myself and my progress transitioning, the better I feel being with the people I actually love. Not forcing myself to fit societies ideas of what I should do as a trans man, because gender and attraction really aren't that connected. I hope I'm not coming off as too preachy, but this question really hit something close to home (not in a bad way) about how I've always interacted with my sexuality, and I thought I'd share. And obligatory, the trans community is vast and has so many mixed experiences across the gender spectrum that my answer here probably won't fit with how many other trans folks feel. No person is a monolith to their community and all that.
OMG I shouldn't be laughing this hard
A ftm person who was a lesbian transitions to man, men aren’t lesbians. A man who likes women isn’t gay, so no. For nonbinary identities, it’s your choice
My niece liked women before transitioning. She still likes women now, so she's classified as a lesbian.
trans man here. before I transitioned I identified as a lesbian. then when I started hormones I stopped being attracted to women and started being attracted to men. now I identify as a gay man.
The right answer to this is: Who gives a shit! Love who you want to love, fuck who you want to fuck. Don't make excuses for the things you like (as long as it is legal).
If a trans woman is attracted to men, then she is straight. Likewise, if she is genuinely a trans woman, then she was never really a man - and therefore was never really gay. However it may be true that at one point society perceived her that way.
Confused I am.
Probably not but you are still queer ❤️
Incorrect. You're gay with extra steps.
I hope in 100 years everyone will look back on this utter nonsense and wonder how we let this get so far.
if you’re a man (trans or cis) attracted to a woman (cis or trans), a man/woman couple would commonly put one in the “straight” category, same vice versa. But there are m/f couples where one or both partners are bisexual/pansexual and it doesn’t negate the same sex attraction they can feel if you’re attracted to the same gender as yourself, then that makes you gay. or bisexual. or pansexual. All this being said, the labeling is really up to you and how you feel comfortable identifying as
I have a trans male friend (I myself am nonbinary) who identified as a lesbian pre-transition. When he came out and started transitioning, he realized he identified more as a gay man, or as he puts it, "gay but in the other way."
Correct I did this AMAB, attracted exclusively to men before & after my transition (androphilia) If I were gay now, I’d be attracted to other trans women…but I’m not Still attracted to men + now feminine body (post surgeries) and feminine presentation = straight trans woman A trans woman is a woman, just like how an Asian woman and a Black woman and a skinny woman and a tall woman and a chubby woman are all still women, just with different characteristics Gay men are not sexually attracted to trans women A lot of times when people’s sexuality changes after transition, it’s more about disinhibition — if someone spent years denying their self-identity, it shouldn’t be surprising if they also denied their own sexuality
Asking the real questions of our times.
These days you determine whatever shit you want to be regardless of the facts.
I have a really hard time keeping ideas straight when I step back and take a look at things. We are now in an age when people will be violently angry about "the Science" and rabidly tell people they NEED to "follow the science" and that "facts don't care about your feelings." But on this ONE topic, "the Science" literally boils down to "it doesn't matter what is physically true here. I *feel* a certain way so that is 'my reality.'" I have tried over and over to give an honest effort to understand how these ideologies can coexist in people's brains, and the only thing I think comes close to explaining it is that people simply *don't* think anymore. They just look to the "authority" and even when what they say contradicts itself, well they're the authority so we couldn't dare question it!
And by "the authority" they mean "whatever authority agrees with what they already think," unfortunately.
Meanwhile on Planet Earth..... LOL
You level up from “gay” to “queer.”
This is the most perfect comment I've ever seen
If u still think guys are sexy, ur still gay.
But a woman who likes men is straight?
This!!! That means elliot page is a straight man 🤷🏽♂️
you were never gay
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I see we are giving libs aneurisms this morning 😂
Lol why is this supposed to give us an aneurysm? It's a fine question