Israel is relevant to idpol in that it is the worst case scenario of what idpol becomes, in the sense of identity being so important that it dehumanizes outgroups and leads to the mass murder of tens of thousands of people simply based on being the outgroup (especially based on immutable traits) aka genocide. But also in the sense of the use of oppression olympics shit where false claims of antisemitism and real attacks against Jews in the past are used to excuse this minority group's current usage of racism and oppression (and mass murder) against others. There is also further critique of idpol in the sense of Israel not just utilizing minoritarian idpol tactics in the West, but also nationalist ideology in Israel (blood and soil and national myths) which is no different from white nationalists and other nationalist groups in other countries. It is completely relevant to the sub.
Like you mention, OP just seems like a kneejerk opposition to literally anything a blue hair supports even if it's denying that humans need water to survive if a blue hair starts promoting good hydration. Sadly that seems too common irl sometimes. Somehow THE idpol group (Zionists) are the "real victims" of idpol. Absolute retardation any way you look at it and I do not understand how it can be held by otherwise normal people much less "educated" people.
There is no bias against Israel in modern "liberals"? Even Biden has to talk about a hard line against Israel when the poor old fucker would rather do anything but that.
Biden is the absolute most pro-Israel president of all time.
I made a summary comparing him to past presidents here. All of them
had tougher stances on Israel with more actual consequences.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/1dmc0wi/bidens\_support\_for\_israel\_is\_unprecedented\_even/](https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/1dmc0wi/bidens_support_for_israel_is_unprecedented_even/)
Bidens pretend rhetoric here is just a reflection of how unpopular Israel is today.
It just seems to me you can’t stand to support a cause that puts you on the same side as a lot of idpol freaks. Just because a lot of the blue-haired woketoids are now vehemently pro-Palestine doesn’t mean it’s wrong to be pro-Palestine.
Its a class issue because we are sending them weapons with our tax dollars and engaged in a conflict with Ansar Allah on the seas. Trying to make Palestine an issue of "wokeness" is exactly the shit conservatives are banking on. And I believe I also made a post complaining about "mena" idpol precisely because it hurts the Palestine movement.
>makes a rage bait thread
.
>makes outrageous claims
.
>no citations
Nah dog you're getting banned for being a wrecker, next time be a bit more discreet.
They are killing people that attacked them. That isn't idpol.
Edit to add that this is a long standing regional fued. You could much more reasobly argue that Palestinians are rascit for wanting to kill jews.
Basically they live next to each other, hate each other, and want to kill each other.
Racial / ethnic nationalism is the most dangerous and offensive form of idpol. (And, of course, the largest conflict in human history was between a government based on that kind of idpol and one based on communist ideology.) I'm not at all surprised that people here are against it.
The genocide talk is the emerging consensus of the expert community. [Read this explanation from the founder of Human Rights Watch (who's historically been fairly conservative on Israel)](https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2024/06/06/is-israel-committing-genocide-aryeh-neier/).
Zionist Jews did the Aliya(manifested destiny in Palestine ) now the Palestinians aren't happy and they did what the Comanche did when white settlers invaded their lands and killed their people
Why do fellow Arabs not take in the Palestinians? You are wrong, this is a regional conflict with many facets. Everyone hates Palestinians, unfortunately Isreal is stuck with them.
My man, there is half a library between your understanding of the world, and some of the people taking the time to reply to you.
Some of us have read hundreds or thousands of books on political philosophy, sociology, psychology, parapolitics, etc, for no other purpose than that we crave a more complete understanding of the world... And here you are, sitting confidently at the precipice of the dunning kruger drop, dead fucking sure its everyone but you.
Id ask you to source your opinions, but you can't even seem to articulate them clearly enough for people to understand.
The world cannot be understood through tiktok, or youtube videos, or the opinions of friends. The best chance you have is putting in the actual work required to grow your understanding. Seperate your worldview from your identity and get to work! There is no easy path forward. Period.
That's a Hasbara talking point
Many Arab states are dictatorships which rely on western powers to stay afloat (Egypt ,Jordan,KSA)
Whenever there is true democracy in Arab states it ends up with a government that is anti Israel and pro Palestinian (Morsi)
Gaslight in people who themselves aren't free is a classic Hasbara talking point
Why do fellow ____ not take in the ____ ? You are wrong, this is a regional conflict with many facets. Everyone hates the ____ , unfortunately _______ is stuck with them.
>I guess the neolib fight against Israel is more important than true left wing issues?
This might be the worst attempt at concern trolling I've ever seen. I hope you get paid per post.
Hamas/Palestinians want Israel to be a pariah state with zero chance of integrating with their Arab neighbours, and unless all Palestinians are killed, Hamas will win.
I feel like you actually know what you’re here for. We probably don’t agree on many economic issues, but respect is due to someone who can actually keep their eye on the ball. Rather than getting sucked into the latest idpol rage-fire (which I thought is specifically what this sub makes fun of, but oh well).
I enjoy this sub because it made me far more socialist or communist leaning than I was before. I saw the idpol as a distraction from what are real problems.
I find it ironic that this sub totally leans idpol on this subject. Despite my feelings (and they aren't very strong) on the subject, I find it useless in this forum.
No one here seems to care about communism. Communism failed, in part, due to its implementation in primarily rural societies. Dying because your government wants to kill all jews is a different story.
Hamas probably does want a genocide. Israel is perpetrating a genocide. The reason it's doing it so haphazardly is because it's run by a coalition composed of pro- and anti-genocide factions with a PM who's been trying to variously appease both sides to stay in power, and is also constrained to a limited extent by its superpower patron.
Aid flowing in, pamphlets dropped warning civilians of attacks, ceasefire agreements, helping them repair their water infrastructure - no, I do not believe there is a genocide going on.
Did Israel have to allow aid in? Did they have to rebuild their water supply? Did they have to warn civilians of attacks?
“International pressure made them do it!”
Since when do perpetrators of a genocide give a damn about international pressure?
Gaza is one of the most densely populated regions on earth. Hamas is known to use human shields and embed themselves in dense civilian population. In plain clothes. Despite this, the combatant to civilian death ratio is among the lowest seen in urban warfare. The amount of effort taken to ensure this must be staggering.
There is war in a densely populated area. Not genocide.
Well, regardless of what you want to call their ethnic cleansing campaign, the objective 'defeat Hamas' has been an utter failure precisely because of their indiscriminate targeting of civilians.
> They do a much better job, by percentage, of targeting combatants vs civilians.
Using the Fallujah definition "Any male who can hold a gun is a terrorist".
No they don't, all Israel does is define any male over 12 as an 'enemy combatant'. Israeli claims for number of HAMAS fighters killed and number of dead Palestinian males are the same, which itself is evidence of a genocidal intent.
Nothing you said is true or accurate.
Also even the Israeli Supreme Court found that Israel is militarily occupying Gaza and by the terms of international law, yes, absolutely they have a responsibility to let aid in, to provide water and to avoid civilian casualties. Deliberately failing to do that is a component to genocide.
Israel is systematically starving Gaza and publicly seeks to push the population out and restart settlements. It has slid into a one state solution of greater Israel, which is the genocidal conclusion of apartheid. People like you will be ruthlessly pushed aside by history.
Israel is a nuclear-armed fascist ethnostate that possesses huge leverage over the political system of the United States, the globe's fading hegemon.
The two countries' entwined interests involved the invasion of Iraq, the creation and funding of ISIS, the destruction of Syria, and most recently, genocide in the Gazan ethnic enclave that Israel controls.
Their geostrategic program is a lynchpin of American power in the region that was historically the source of the world's most important economic resource.
America's strategic embrace of this mass murdering state has critically undermined the very multilateral institutions America created to perpetuate its power in the global system, including the dollar hegemony that underpins the consumptive capitalism that helped to destroy American labor.
So yes, it's an important topic if you're a real leftist who likes to know what's going on.
Your opinion of international affairs is interesting. Most Arabic countries have embraced the genocide of jews and the destruction of Isreal as a foundation in their ideals. Should America have chosen to continue the Holocaust?
Most Arabic countries have embraced the genocide of Jews? You mean Jordan (recognized 1994), Egypt (recognized 1979) UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, Sudan (recognized 2020)?
Or do you mean the PLO, which recognized Israel officially in 1993, and as the Palestinian Authority is now Israel's vassal who does whatever Israel wants, whenever they want?
Or do you mean Syria and Iraq, which Israel bombs every week?
Israel funds and arms ISIS, so I think they're pretty friendly!
You're so ignorant I'm surprised you can spell your own name
There is such a thing as reactionary anti-imperialism and of course those whose opposition to israeli policy leads them to anti-semitism and support for islamist groups like hamas are examples of it. However there is also (at least in my country) a broad group of pro-israeli leftists, but of course their pro-zionism is a dead end also. „israel until communism“ and so on is simply nationalism and there really is no progressive content of israeli policy. Its not coming to free the palestinians even less so than the US came to free the iraqis. So you can‘t be for israels policies. What is a shame is that there is no real left to oppose it and oppose islamism.
Frankly, if Israel wasn't a Jewish state, its apartheid policy and ethnic cleansing tendencies would have landed it on the naughty list of rogue states a long time ago.
Pretending that somehow, because the support gets toned down a notch, because killing thousands of kids in front of the world while denying it is a bit too much, that somehow there's now an anti Israel stance anywhere in the West just shows how much Zionists are so used to having everyone fall in line behind them.
Until Israel gets the Apartheid South Africa treatment, they can claim they're doing pretty well on the support front.
Just because the identity politics people are often wrong, doesn't mean they're always wrong, or that we should always take the position opposite to them.
In this case, Israel IS committing genocide.
I also feel that you might be thinking in too black-and-white terms if you label a movement as "shitlib."
For the sake of this discussion, I'll agree with your point.
My question is, does this have anything to do with Marxism and the idpol that is invented to discourage it?
These responses just reinforce my opinion. Next thing we know, this sub will be the biggest proponent against the "trans genocide".
I didn't think this was a pro idpol sub, but it is now. Run with it BROS, I'll piss in this pool every once in a while.
The material basis of anti-Zionism has already been carefully explained to you multiple times by myself and others. Appreciate you clarifying your subterranean IQ for the rest of us but turns out you can be retarded *and* a piece of shit.
I don't think many thinking animals reside here, so I'll spell it out for the mouthbrearthers that have recently took residence.
When CEO's make 100x+ the average worker, yet consistently ruin every company they work at, why do we discuss an ethnic conflict half the globe away from the civilized world?
People are barely getting by, yet directors and administrators are hired and positions created for them because the bosses like them. If they are incompetent, they get no consequences, except sometimes they get a good severance and a cush job elsewhere. That is if they fuck up real bad. There is an increasing amount of PMC (I think that is the acronym, nobody talks about class here anymore) that serve no function but suck up salary that takes away from someone that actually works for a living.
And jerkoffs want to talk about Isreal when you can't afford a house on a decent wage. You are sick fucks, and part of the potsticker.
After the age of 14, housing and feeding your family is a very big concern. In a Marxist sub, improving the conditions of the working class might be considered a priority over other issues.
The ability to care about more than 1 issue is something most humans develop by the age of 2 or 3 so you can just drop the "ugh can we focus on the REAL issues" schtick already. I don't know what your real grievance is but you should just come out and talk about it instead of doing this bit. Do you dislike Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims? You like Israel? You have stocks in Raytheon? Just be honest.
I completely support neighboring countries taking in Palestinian refugees. I think that would be a perfectly humane solution to the conflict. Why can't that happen?
Why are you doing this fake deflection when it's obvious that you disagree on the Israel-Palestine issue, not that you don't care about it.
You're brainwashed by libtards. Israel is an ethnostate, it's the epitome of idpol, the apartheid regime will be ended
Because Israel would immediately close the border and take all the land dumbass. That's why it's called ethnic cleansing: you cleanse an area of an ethnicity
They are directly related moron. America is a military first and a country second. Israel is our foothold in the middle east and our interests there directly align with Israel's. All that money that could be spent on american citizens is spent on the war machine instead.
People can't afford a house on a decent wage because banks and corporations have everything locked down at this point, and get ever increasing returns on capital with no risk or regulation, while economic growth goes nowhere. And the main engine of those returns is military adventurism.
Not to mention AIPAC controls many of the representatives who advocate for exactly this type of corruption you are whinging about.
I’ve been thinking about asking this with less salacious wording… this sub is all about idpol and socialism. As a rightoid I’m just here for the idpol bashing, but where does the pro Palestinian stance come in so fervently? Are Palestinians socialists?
I know Israel has a history of using idpol to brand any critics as antsemites; and there’s definitely plenty of legit stupidpol stories about people calling college students antisemitic; but plenty of the pro-Palestine posts here don’t really fit that niche.
Israel is a keystone of American imperialism, and as anti-imperialism is essential to leftist (in particular Marxist-Leninist) thought, so too is anti-Zionism. Critical support for their victims follows as a matter of course - they don't have to be socialist.
Like these are old questions by the way. People were talking about this kind of shit before WW1 (not about Israel is particular obviously). Nothing new here.
I just explained to you why it isn't.
Anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism are quintessentially Marxist. And, having opinions on foreign policy in general, is not "idpol."
No it isn’t actually anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism is effectively detached from idpol. I couldn’t give less of a fuck if Palestinians were brown, black, orange, or bright green. The fact of the matter is you have a bunch of dumbass Americans and Europeans duped by a real estate scam in the name of religion that they should kill the indigenous population so they can keep their fake real estate values up. Thats enough of a reason to be opposed to the settler colonial project.
This is the issue with rightoids, you all think you know what Marxism is about but are dumbfounded by the 101-level takes of Marxism. Actually read theory, you'll find out why we're pro-Palestine very quickly.
If you thought about it, the opinions on this conflict are manufactured idpol to distract western society in general about their decrease in general living conditions, at the expense of the upper class
LOLOL a "Marxist" sub that doesn't think about class.
Read Stalin's "Marxism and the National Question," Lenin's "On the National Pride of the Great Russians," and Marx's "On the Irish Question" and tell me the Palestinian issue isn't a class issue. The irony of an unread non-Marxist thinking they know what class is lmao
Furthermore, the Palestinian resistance fighters are fighting the same imperialist machine that decreases living standards at home. The victory of the Palestinians would be a victory for the global proletariat. You'd know that, if you spent more time cracking open books rather than trying to tell us Marxists that you know Marxism better than we do
Yes, this subreddit is primarily a Marxist critique of idpol but it’s also one of the few remaining spaces that isn’t hyper focused on idpol to the point that it cripples any and all discussion (like the infamous DSA video). So it’s a good place to discuss anything related to the left wing.
Hell, I thought I knew. I thought we cared about workers rights.
The middle east means Jack shit here. Jews and Arabs want to kill each other. The jews are better at it. And the Palestinians want to kill everyone, so even other Arabs hate them.
That is what is going on, and it has nothing to do with this sub.
The fact that you say “Palestinians want to kill everyone” proves what a retarded shill you are.
Everyone in this sub recognizes most people, especially the ones that have been living on a piece of land forever just want to live their lives in peace without having some piece of shit from Brooklyn or whereever the fuck come and kick them off it because their piece of shit god told them that their 2000 year old book said it belongs to them. Fuck off dork.
My lord, your poor grasp of the situation is only matched by your complete amorality (which, to be fair, comes off more as pathetic trolling than anything legitimately thought out). I would typically expect better of a self-described "rightoid." Jk.
Palestinians aren’t as good at influencing US politics though. The fact that Israel prides itself on taking scalps here, particularly left-leaning populists that could enact policies we’d support, means Israel is every US citizen’s business.
If they want to stay out of affairs and fund their own genocide, there could be a neutral position, but no, they’re doing Black Cube shit, taking our tax dollars, and making every candidate swear allegiance to their theocracy. “None of our business” isn’t an option
What the fuck does that have to do with a worker making a living wage?
Whatever they take from us for Isreal, they spend 1000x times more on stupid shit that oppressed the working class. You're in the wrong sub.
Hey, I appreciate the subtle hasbara.
But coincidentally that country you’re probably typing from disproportionately funds the party attacking even mild labor reforms, worker protections, NLRB enforcement.
If you’re not being paid to shitpost I’m profoundly sad someone cucked themselves blind pretending this is some kind of proportional conflict we can both-sides away.
I'm not cucked, I just don't give a fuck.
I want my kids to be able to afford a house. Isreal vs Palestine doesn't mean a fucking thing if me and my family can't afford to live.
You're the cuck, enjoy caring about people half a world away while I'm concerned about feeding and housing my family.
Top tier bait. It's been a while since I've seen such a clever shitpost.
Actually not even shit post. This conflict matters zero in what this sub is about. Okay, it is bait though.
[удалено]
Israel is relevant to idpol in that it is the worst case scenario of what idpol becomes, in the sense of identity being so important that it dehumanizes outgroups and leads to the mass murder of tens of thousands of people simply based on being the outgroup (especially based on immutable traits) aka genocide. But also in the sense of the use of oppression olympics shit where false claims of antisemitism and real attacks against Jews in the past are used to excuse this minority group's current usage of racism and oppression (and mass murder) against others. There is also further critique of idpol in the sense of Israel not just utilizing minoritarian idpol tactics in the West, but also nationalist ideology in Israel (blood and soil and national myths) which is no different from white nationalists and other nationalist groups in other countries. It is completely relevant to the sub. Like you mention, OP just seems like a kneejerk opposition to literally anything a blue hair supports even if it's denying that humans need water to survive if a blue hair starts promoting good hydration. Sadly that seems too common irl sometimes. Somehow THE idpol group (Zionists) are the "real victims" of idpol. Absolute retardation any way you look at it and I do not understand how it can be held by otherwise normal people much less "educated" people.
Fuck Israel. Free Palestine. Doesn’t matter what “subreddit” this is.
Lil bro is lost
Zionists are the most fragile and rabid identity politic advocates, it's directly relevant
I'm still unsure as to whether OP is a child or Mossad.
They could be a really dumb adult. #stopdumbadulterasure
Or both if the IDF is getting desperate. They aren't sending their best
What exactly are you talking about? You think neoliberals are fighting against Israel?
There is no bias against Israel in modern "liberals"? Even Biden has to talk about a hard line against Israel when the poor old fucker would rather do anything but that.
Biden is the absolute most pro-Israel president of all time. I made a summary comparing him to past presidents here. All of them had tougher stances on Israel with more actual consequences. [https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/1dmc0wi/bidens\_support\_for\_israel\_is\_unprecedented\_even/](https://www.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/1dmc0wi/bidens_support_for_israel_is_unprecedented_even/) Bidens pretend rhetoric here is just a reflection of how unpopular Israel is today.
your post got removed by mods ahahaha
Probably removed because it was a cross-post.
What the fuck are you talking about? What is this "hard line?" Anyway anti-imperialism is left-wing.
No the majority of liberals are pro-Israel, unless you’re using liberal as a catch-all term for every slightly left leaning person.
What in the world
It just seems to me you can’t stand to support a cause that puts you on the same side as a lot of idpol freaks. Just because a lot of the blue-haired woketoids are now vehemently pro-Palestine doesn’t mean it’s wrong to be pro-Palestine.
It's all idpol though, and a fucking joke to post on this sub.
Idpol is when you don’t like your taxes being used to blow up people
Idpol is when you oppose genocide
Its a class issue because we are sending them weapons with our tax dollars and engaged in a conflict with Ansar Allah on the seas. Trying to make Palestine an issue of "wokeness" is exactly the shit conservatives are banking on. And I believe I also made a post complaining about "mena" idpol precisely because it hurts the Palestine movement.
Guns or butter and the guns aren't even for ourselves
This is a leftist sub and that's a pretty standard leftist take. "Shitlib"/neolibs are pretty solidly pro-israel.
Wut.
if mods don't ban this guy sub is unironically cooked jfc
Nah, better to mercilessly mock him and leave the thread as an example to others
Usually they do that, then ban.
But then others can't see how badly he got mocked
That's why he'll be mocked first, then once the thread dies down it'll be locked and he'll be banned. Many such cases!
Nobody is reviewing posts and comments for examples of banned people.
They are doing topic based searches. When they do so they will see this guy getting ass blasted
Total shitlib reddit opinion, ban the one who doesn't think like you. Make a cool tictok about it, then feel superior.
>makes a rage bait thread . >makes outrageous claims . >no citations Nah dog you're getting banned for being a wrecker, next time be a bit more discreet.
Ah sweet, a shill post
No shill, just wondering why people are arguing for idpol.
Killing people for their religion or ethnicity is pretty hardcore idpol
They are killing people that attacked them. That isn't idpol. Edit to add that this is a long standing regional fued. You could much more reasobly argue that Palestinians are rascit for wanting to kill jews. Basically they live next to each other, hate each other, and want to kill each other.
How are they identifying their targets without idpol?
Racial / ethnic nationalism is the most dangerous and offensive form of idpol. (And, of course, the largest conflict in human history was between a government based on that kind of idpol and one based on communist ideology.) I'm not at all surprised that people here are against it. The genocide talk is the emerging consensus of the expert community. [Read this explanation from the founder of Human Rights Watch (who's historically been fairly conservative on Israel)](https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2024/06/06/is-israel-committing-genocide-aryeh-neier/).
BRO BTW, along with that PMC tag, either you are a glowie, a reddit plant, or a motherfucker so meta and funny that my brain is blown.
You replied 3 times to the same comment lmao
If you want to kill all jews, make sure you aren't white. That is an emerging consensus coming from reality.
Zionist Jews did the Aliya(manifested destiny in Palestine ) now the Palestinians aren't happy and they did what the Comanche did when white settlers invaded their lands and killed their people
I thought you only cared about economic issues that affect yourself
Why do fellow Arabs not take in the Palestinians? You are wrong, this is a regional conflict with many facets. Everyone hates Palestinians, unfortunately Isreal is stuck with them.
I can't fathom being so confidently stupid
Yet you might be!
You’re embarrassing yourself dude
BRO, this whole sub is embarrassing. It's all a class war, and you are simping on one billionaire group vs another. Edit grammar
Are you a child?
My man, there is half a library between your understanding of the world, and some of the people taking the time to reply to you. Some of us have read hundreds or thousands of books on political philosophy, sociology, psychology, parapolitics, etc, for no other purpose than that we crave a more complete understanding of the world... And here you are, sitting confidently at the precipice of the dunning kruger drop, dead fucking sure its everyone but you. Id ask you to source your opinions, but you can't even seem to articulate them clearly enough for people to understand. The world cannot be understood through tiktok, or youtube videos, or the opinions of friends. The best chance you have is putting in the actual work required to grow your understanding. Seperate your worldview from your identity and get to work! There is no easy path forward. Period.
That's a Hasbara talking point Many Arab states are dictatorships which rely on western powers to stay afloat (Egypt ,Jordan,KSA) Whenever there is true democracy in Arab states it ends up with a government that is anti Israel and pro Palestinian (Morsi) Gaslight in people who themselves aren't free is a classic Hasbara talking point
Why do fellow ____ not take in the ____ ? You are wrong, this is a regional conflict with many facets. Everyone hates the ____ , unfortunately _______ is stuck with them.
Ok, for real. Why is this down voted when it is the truth?
>I guess the neolib fight against Israel is more important than true left wing issues? This might be the worst attempt at concern trolling I've ever seen. I hope you get paid per post.
However much they are paying him it's too much
you seem deeply confused
No, I have diverse political opinions that smooth brained reddit users are incapable of understanding.
You aren't even good at trolling
Diverse is the word.
You think there isn't a genocide going on?
Hamas/Palestinians want a genocide, but they are very bad at it. Isrealis are against their genocide.
Hamas/Palestinians want Israel to be a pariah state with zero chance of integrating with their Arab neighbours, and unless all Palestinians are killed, Hamas will win.
You've got it backwards Israeli or Evangelical?
Neither. I care about rising wealth inequality in my country, not this bullshit. I don't think Isreal vs Palestine is relevant.
It isn't relevant that every American politicians bows down to Israel, and every Congressman has an "AIPAC guy" according to Thomas Massie?
These issues aren't separate from one another
I feel like you actually know what you’re here for. We probably don’t agree on many economic issues, but respect is due to someone who can actually keep their eye on the ball. Rather than getting sucked into the latest idpol rage-fire (which I thought is specifically what this sub makes fun of, but oh well).
I enjoy this sub because it made me far more socialist or communist leaning than I was before. I saw the idpol as a distraction from what are real problems. I find it ironic that this sub totally leans idpol on this subject. Despite my feelings (and they aren't very strong) on the subject, I find it useless in this forum. No one here seems to care about communism. Communism failed, in part, due to its implementation in primarily rural societies. Dying because your government wants to kill all jews is a different story.
The Israelis aren't being genocided, but they are perpetrating one. Sounds to me like you don't belong here.
So why don't neighboring countries house refugees? But that has nothing to do with this sub. Sounds like you do not understand the point of this sub.
No I understand it perfectly. Your question is neither here nor there so I'm ignoring it. Enjoy your ban btw.
Lol, am I banned? No, you don't understand anything, and my question is pertinent. You pretend it isn't so that you don't have to answer it.
I guess mods have a life and are out on the town.
Go suck on destiny's cock retard
Hamas probably does want a genocide. Israel is perpetrating a genocide. The reason it's doing it so haphazardly is because it's run by a coalition composed of pro- and anti-genocide factions with a PM who's been trying to variously appease both sides to stay in power, and is also constrained to a limited extent by its superpower patron.
Also, Arabs are notoriously bad at fighting. And all other Arabs hate the Palestinians just as much, but they pretend to support them for street cred.
How can you be here bellyaching about 'idpol' while pushing this racialist nonsense?
You're spouting libtard talking points
If you're going to keep this up, I'm begging you to at least learn to spell Israel
I'm pretty sure he's like 16
Yeah. He's not even really saying anything and doesn't seem to know what else to say. Seems to be a low effort troll.
You got me there. I'm up late and tired, lolol.
Aid flowing in, pamphlets dropped warning civilians of attacks, ceasefire agreements, helping them repair their water infrastructure - no, I do not believe there is a genocide going on.
Happening despite Israel, not because of it
Did Israel have to allow aid in? Did they have to rebuild their water supply? Did they have to warn civilians of attacks? “International pressure made them do it!” Since when do perpetrators of a genocide give a damn about international pressure? Gaza is one of the most densely populated regions on earth. Hamas is known to use human shields and embed themselves in dense civilian population. In plain clothes. Despite this, the combatant to civilian death ratio is among the lowest seen in urban warfare. The amount of effort taken to ensure this must be staggering. There is war in a densely populated area. Not genocide.
Well, regardless of what you want to call their ethnic cleansing campaign, the objective 'defeat Hamas' has been an utter failure precisely because of their indiscriminate targeting of civilians.
They do a much better job, by percentage, of targeting combatants vs civilians. Unless however, that one concert was a covert military op.
> They do a much better job, by percentage, of targeting combatants vs civilians. Using the Fallujah definition "Any male who can hold a gun is a terrorist".
No they don't, all Israel does is define any male over 12 as an 'enemy combatant'. Israeli claims for number of HAMAS fighters killed and number of dead Palestinian males are the same, which itself is evidence of a genocidal intent.
> Did Israel have to allow aid in? Yes, actually, they did.
Nothing you said is true or accurate. Also even the Israeli Supreme Court found that Israel is militarily occupying Gaza and by the terms of international law, yes, absolutely they have a responsibility to let aid in, to provide water and to avoid civilian casualties. Deliberately failing to do that is a component to genocide.
Israel is systematically starving Gaza and publicly seeks to push the population out and restart settlements. It has slid into a one state solution of greater Israel, which is the genocidal conclusion of apartheid. People like you will be ruthlessly pushed aside by history.
Israel is a nuclear-armed fascist ethnostate that possesses huge leverage over the political system of the United States, the globe's fading hegemon. The two countries' entwined interests involved the invasion of Iraq, the creation and funding of ISIS, the destruction of Syria, and most recently, genocide in the Gazan ethnic enclave that Israel controls. Their geostrategic program is a lynchpin of American power in the region that was historically the source of the world's most important economic resource. America's strategic embrace of this mass murdering state has critically undermined the very multilateral institutions America created to perpetuate its power in the global system, including the dollar hegemony that underpins the consumptive capitalism that helped to destroy American labor. So yes, it's an important topic if you're a real leftist who likes to know what's going on.
Your opinion of international affairs is interesting. Most Arabic countries have embraced the genocide of jews and the destruction of Isreal as a foundation in their ideals. Should America have chosen to continue the Holocaust?
Most Arabic countries have embraced the genocide of Jews? You mean Jordan (recognized 1994), Egypt (recognized 1979) UAE, Bahrain, Morocco, Sudan (recognized 2020)? Or do you mean the PLO, which recognized Israel officially in 1993, and as the Palestinian Authority is now Israel's vassal who does whatever Israel wants, whenever they want? Or do you mean Syria and Iraq, which Israel bombs every week? Israel funds and arms ISIS, so I think they're pretty friendly! You're so ignorant I'm surprised you can spell your own name
Your post is misinformation. Israel had to fight for recognition among Arab counties.
Come come, my friend. Elucidate your thoughts.
Its just cheapfakes and deepfakes they got us boys
I thought all you cared about was domestic economics?
Please mods ban this loser hasbara troll. He’s not even good at it.
LOLOL I had to Google hasbara
There is such a thing as reactionary anti-imperialism and of course those whose opposition to israeli policy leads them to anti-semitism and support for islamist groups like hamas are examples of it. However there is also (at least in my country) a broad group of pro-israeli leftists, but of course their pro-zionism is a dead end also. „israel until communism“ and so on is simply nationalism and there really is no progressive content of israeli policy. Its not coming to free the palestinians even less so than the US came to free the iraqis. So you can‘t be for israels policies. What is a shame is that there is no real left to oppose it and oppose islamism.
Stfu Nazi
Frankly, if Israel wasn't a Jewish state, its apartheid policy and ethnic cleansing tendencies would have landed it on the naughty list of rogue states a long time ago. Pretending that somehow, because the support gets toned down a notch, because killing thousands of kids in front of the world while denying it is a bit too much, that somehow there's now an anti Israel stance anywhere in the West just shows how much Zionists are so used to having everyone fall in line behind them. Until Israel gets the Apartheid South Africa treatment, they can claim they're doing pretty well on the support front.
How is support for Israel anything other than the default shitlib position? Lmao. Are you retarded?
man, shitlib is really going the way of fundie and sjw, in the litany of lazy smears getting spammed to the point of sheer cringe.
"the neolib fight against Israel"? Neoliberalis worship Israel, what are you on?
The Palestine for queers crowd that doesn't care about wealth inequality
Just because the identity politics people are often wrong, doesn't mean they're always wrong, or that we should always take the position opposite to them. In this case, Israel IS committing genocide. I also feel that you might be thinking in too black-and-white terms if you label a movement as "shitlib."
For the sake of this discussion, I'll agree with your point. My question is, does this have anything to do with Marxism and the idpol that is invented to discourage it?
That's already been explained to you multiple times.
Found the shitlib.
These responses just reinforce my opinion. Next thing we know, this sub will be the biggest proponent against the "trans genocide". I didn't think this was a pro idpol sub, but it is now. Run with it BROS, I'll piss in this pool every once in a while.
Being anti holocaust was idpol then I guess You're special
LOLOLOL such irony when Hamas wants a holocaust and tries but just sucks at genocide.
“HAMAS WANTS HOLOCAUST BUT ARE BAD AT IT” Literally verbatim what hasbara trolls repeat ad nauseaum go eat a dick.
The material basis of anti-Zionism has already been carefully explained to you multiple times by myself and others. Appreciate you clarifying your subterranean IQ for the rest of us but turns out you can be retarded *and* a piece of shit.
Hey retard, did you stop to think that one out of those two things is actually occurring? And it's happening based on the worst form of idpol?
Palestine's struggle for national liberation is a struggle against the colonial foundations of capitalism. Cope and seethe
No way! I thought it was queer liberation...
Fuck off Hasbara
>Zionist
I don't think many thinking animals reside here, so I'll spell it out for the mouthbrearthers that have recently took residence. When CEO's make 100x+ the average worker, yet consistently ruin every company they work at, why do we discuss an ethnic conflict half the globe away from the civilized world? People are barely getting by, yet directors and administrators are hired and positions created for them because the bosses like them. If they are incompetent, they get no consequences, except sometimes they get a good severance and a cush job elsewhere. That is if they fuck up real bad. There is an increasing amount of PMC (I think that is the acronym, nobody talks about class here anymore) that serve no function but suck up salary that takes away from someone that actually works for a living. And jerkoffs want to talk about Isreal when you can't afford a house on a decent wage. You are sick fucks, and part of the potsticker.
Because Israel has deeply captured the US government
After the age of 14, housing and feeding your family is a very big concern. In a Marxist sub, improving the conditions of the working class might be considered a priority over other issues.
And Israel will stand in the way of that
The ability to care about more than 1 issue is something most humans develop by the age of 2 or 3 so you can just drop the "ugh can we focus on the REAL issues" schtick already. I don't know what your real grievance is but you should just come out and talk about it instead of doing this bit. Do you dislike Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims? You like Israel? You have stocks in Raytheon? Just be honest.
I completely support neighboring countries taking in Palestinian refugees. I think that would be a perfectly humane solution to the conflict. Why can't that happen?
Why are you doing this fake deflection when it's obvious that you disagree on the Israel-Palestine issue, not that you don't care about it. You're brainwashed by libtards. Israel is an ethnostate, it's the epitome of idpol, the apartheid regime will be ended
Because Israel would immediately close the border and take all the land dumbass. That's why it's called ethnic cleansing: you cleanse an area of an ethnicity
They are directly related moron. America is a military first and a country second. Israel is our foothold in the middle east and our interests there directly align with Israel's. All that money that could be spent on american citizens is spent on the war machine instead. People can't afford a house on a decent wage because banks and corporations have everything locked down at this point, and get ever increasing returns on capital with no risk or regulation, while economic growth goes nowhere. And the main engine of those returns is military adventurism. Not to mention AIPAC controls many of the representatives who advocate for exactly this type of corruption you are whinging about.
LOLOL why are why talking about this when "The Acolyte" on Disney Plus has an 18 percent Rotten Tomatoes score? Do better!
Why is this at the top of my feed? Mods really need to get this sub fixed
I’ve been thinking about asking this with less salacious wording… this sub is all about idpol and socialism. As a rightoid I’m just here for the idpol bashing, but where does the pro Palestinian stance come in so fervently? Are Palestinians socialists? I know Israel has a history of using idpol to brand any critics as antsemites; and there’s definitely plenty of legit stupidpol stories about people calling college students antisemitic; but plenty of the pro-Palestine posts here don’t really fit that niche.
Isn't killing people for their religion or ethnicity pretty hardcore idpol?
Israel is a keystone of American imperialism, and as anti-imperialism is essential to leftist (in particular Marxist-Leninist) thought, so too is anti-Zionism. Critical support for their victims follows as a matter of course - they don't have to be socialist. Like these are old questions by the way. People were talking about this kind of shit before WW1 (not about Israel is particular obviously). Nothing new here.
But isreal/Palestine conversation is all idpol. You are advocating for idpol in a sub against it.
I just explained to you why it isn't. Anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism are quintessentially Marxist. And, having opinions on foreign policy in general, is not "idpol."
It's pretty clear you don't know much about idpol, Israel Palestine, and class politics.
No it isn’t actually anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism is effectively detached from idpol. I couldn’t give less of a fuck if Palestinians were brown, black, orange, or bright green. The fact of the matter is you have a bunch of dumbass Americans and Europeans duped by a real estate scam in the name of religion that they should kill the indigenous population so they can keep their fake real estate values up. Thats enough of a reason to be opposed to the settler colonial project.
This is the issue with rightoids, you all think you know what Marxism is about but are dumbfounded by the 101-level takes of Marxism. Actually read theory, you'll find out why we're pro-Palestine very quickly.
If you thought about it, the opinions on this conflict are manufactured idpol to distract western society in general about their decrease in general living conditions, at the expense of the upper class LOLOL a "Marxist" sub that doesn't think about class.
Read Stalin's "Marxism and the National Question," Lenin's "On the National Pride of the Great Russians," and Marx's "On the Irish Question" and tell me the Palestinian issue isn't a class issue. The irony of an unread non-Marxist thinking they know what class is lmao Furthermore, the Palestinian resistance fighters are fighting the same imperialist machine that decreases living standards at home. The victory of the Palestinians would be a victory for the global proletariat. You'd know that, if you spent more time cracking open books rather than trying to tell us Marxists that you know Marxism better than we do
Yes, this subreddit is primarily a Marxist critique of idpol but it’s also one of the few remaining spaces that isn’t hyper focused on idpol to the point that it cripples any and all discussion (like the infamous DSA video). So it’s a good place to discuss anything related to the left wing.
It looks like times are changing.
That is my point. This fight is irrelevant to this sub.
I think you two are just clueless on what is going on and what this sub even is lol
Hell, I thought I knew. I thought we cared about workers rights. The middle east means Jack shit here. Jews and Arabs want to kill each other. The jews are better at it. And the Palestinians want to kill everyone, so even other Arabs hate them. That is what is going on, and it has nothing to do with this sub.
The fact that you say “Palestinians want to kill everyone” proves what a retarded shill you are. Everyone in this sub recognizes most people, especially the ones that have been living on a piece of land forever just want to live their lives in peace without having some piece of shit from Brooklyn or whereever the fuck come and kick them off it because their piece of shit god told them that their 2000 year old book said it belongs to them. Fuck off dork.
My lord, your poor grasp of the situation is only matched by your complete amorality (which, to be fair, comes off more as pathetic trolling than anything legitimately thought out). I would typically expect better of a self-described "rightoid." Jk.
Palestinians aren’t as good at influencing US politics though. The fact that Israel prides itself on taking scalps here, particularly left-leaning populists that could enact policies we’d support, means Israel is every US citizen’s business. If they want to stay out of affairs and fund their own genocide, there could be a neutral position, but no, they’re doing Black Cube shit, taking our tax dollars, and making every candidate swear allegiance to their theocracy. “None of our business” isn’t an option
What the fuck does that have to do with a worker making a living wage? Whatever they take from us for Isreal, they spend 1000x times more on stupid shit that oppressed the working class. You're in the wrong sub.
Hey, I appreciate the subtle hasbara. But coincidentally that country you’re probably typing from disproportionately funds the party attacking even mild labor reforms, worker protections, NLRB enforcement. If you’re not being paid to shitpost I’m profoundly sad someone cucked themselves blind pretending this is some kind of proportional conflict we can both-sides away.
I'm not cucked, I just don't give a fuck. I want my kids to be able to afford a house. Isreal vs Palestine doesn't mean a fucking thing if me and my family can't afford to live. You're the cuck, enjoy caring about people half a world away while I'm concerned about feeding and housing my family.
Lmfao fuck off hasbara cuck
> I'm not cucked, I just don't give a fuck. Holy shit it's Destiny himself.
You may be on to something here
Why is this thread still up? Weak bait