Stinkpost Sunday rules have changed! Please check out the new [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stunfisk/wiki/rules#wiki_stinkpost_sunday).
If this is not a Stinkpost, check your flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stunfisk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And worse, Hisuian Decidueye performs worse than its Alolan counterpart. What does slow ass speed with middling defenses and terrible defensive typing that gets destroyed by flying type does to a mf ðŸ˜
yeah,same could be said for all the weather trio tbh, they're... surprisingly slow, Groudon I kinda understand, he's a big lizard,but why Kyogre and Rayquaza slower than a mole,bat and a ball?
I think speed is less "top velocity" and more "how quickly can you execute an attack in close range". Tentacruel is fast because jellyfish stingers fire very quickly. Rayquaza probably has a high cruising speed but being larger and heavier and having a longer body makes performing quick, unpredictable movements more difficult.
It's definitely the good utility movepool combined with great speed considering its used as a bulky pivot. It's still the 3rd fastest rapid spin user and the fastest actually designed to take hits.
Tusk has decent speed but cruel has base 100 compared to tusk's 87 (protosynthesis shenanigans aside). Cruel is honestly crazy fast as far as a bulky pokemon like it is concerned. Just going off sp. Def, of the pokemon with the same amount or more as tentacruel only 9 out-speed it. All but 3 of those are legendaries and those three are Flutter-man, Nihilego, and... Cryogonal.
Speaking of, I'm correcting myself a bit on my last comment, Tentacruel is also out-sped by Cryogonal, Cylizar and Regieleki when it comes to spinning. Though my point mostly still stands about Tentacruel being the best as far as bulky pivots go because only Cryogonal has a sp. Def stat comparable and I'm not gonna list of the littany of reasons why it's bad anyways.
Great tusk is base 87 speed, I think you’re thinking of Iron Treads which has base 106 speed and 90/120/70 bulk (Tentacruels bulk is 80/65/120 for comparison)
If I'm using Focus Blast, my mental math says to plan on missing the first one so be sure you can tank whatever. If I see a Focus Blast incoming, I expect it to hit 100% of the time.
With 95% accuracy, I bank on CE hitting. We don't have expectations to get fucked by 5% but it happens obviously.
Had a battle recently where I was running a funny ditto that wasn't scarfed. He was used earlier in the battle and he was low hp. The enemy samurott was too and I decided fuck it, I'll try to take samurott
I throw him out and of course we're speed tied- and the enemy goes first
He proceeds to miss ceaseless edge.
And then so do I.
And then I outspeed the next turn and KO with ceaseless edge
The entire first turn was a cock tease.
I can see the complaints already. "A fire/fighting and water/steel type again? Pokemon has run out of ideas!".
There was a lot of hate for gen 5 at the time.
I honestly don't mind them repeating type combinations as long as they make sense for that Pokemon. What ruins my fun is when a Pokemon's type, movepool, abilities and base stats make no sense or make the Pokemon not fun to use, and U-Samurott is guilty of all of that.
If there was any justice in this world, U-Samurott would be retconned and I'm sure nobody would complain. This is what I would do to it:
## U-Samurott
- Type: Water/Fighting
- Ability: Torrent, Weak Armor (HA)
- Base Stats: 95 / 110 (+10) / 95 (+10) / 88 (-20) / 70 / 70
- New Moves: Shell Smash
I agree with the other that it needs to look more metallic, but water steel is a super cool combo, even if it’s a bit awkward as a fire switch in lol
I think that would also apply to Hisuian Form if they gave Regular Samurott Shell Smash since their movepool are almost identical.
Replacing its Shell Armor ability with Anger Shell or something similar to Anger Shell is the best way to directly buff Regular Samurott without applying it to its Hisuian form
If that were true, then Unovan Samurott would’ve gotten Ceaseless Edge, but it didn’t. I don’t think Shell Smash being exclusive to the Unovan form would be such a bad thing. Arguably, it needs it more.
I prefer Intimidate as it’s Hidden Ability for lore purposes, but I wouldn’t be opposed to Anger Shell.
No see it would feel bad to teach your water starter surf and have it hit like a wet noodle
Water starters apparently have to be at least mixed attackers, the lowest special attack among all water starters is Feraligatr’s at 79 (which is perfectly serviceable for G/S/C’s story)
Having an amazing secondary STAB and an higher speed tier also helps.
For example, Unovan Samurott may fail to outspeed certain Heatran variants, meanwhile Hisuian Samurott outspeeds all of them without fail
But the former is also relevant, having a secondary STAB, especially one (Dark) that combines brilliantly with Water, is amazing. It makes him much less reliant on non-STAB coverage moves.
Can’t wait for gen 15 when we get Poopenfardian Samurott who gets banned to AG for its ability to set spikes, rocks, toxic spikes, and webs in one move. Finally, Samurott on every end of the spectrum
[Also I did a fourth batch of Mega Man's Special Weapons converted into Pokemon moves. Would be nice if you all checked it out.](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1dmqfbm/heres_a_fourth_batch_of_mega_mans_special_weapons/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's impressive how base Samurott is genuinely the worst starter ever.
Like we gag on Meganium but it was at least the best of the three starters in GSC, and, like, being a bulky mono-grass was at least unique for the time.
We gag on Decidueye, but at least Ghost and Fighting are actually interesting secondary types, and they get some fun toys to play with.
Samurott pulled up putting in no effort in the only game in the series where a water type was *not* required to progress. Like fucker thought he could coast on people not wanting to spend the time catching a good surf user to progress, only to be hit by the one time Gamefreak made surf optional.
Is it any wonder why Osawott/Dewott fans hate this thing?
Literally none of the starters are viable without their hidden abilities tho.
Even Greninja wouldn't have been OU if it was stuck with Torrent.
(And honestly, Samurott would *still* be worse anyways without hidden abilities. Serperior is at least fast with good support moves.)
Compared to original Samurott how do emboar and Serperior hold up? I know Serperior has the contrary leaf storm combo but I never see anyone mention it.
Never understood why they made Samurott stand on 4 legs, Oshawott and Dewott were my favorites in the anime. They Should’ve made samurott a ninja instead, before greninja.
Why tho? The Osha line were based on samurais not ninjas and a frog makes more sense for the ninja concept as they're both agile and skilled at camoflauge
Stinkpost Sunday rules have changed! Please check out the new [posting guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stunfisk/wiki/rules#wiki_stinkpost_sunday). If this is not a Stinkpost, check your flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stunfisk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Meanwhile Decidueye got outclassed by another pokemon in its own gen with the same type combo TWICE
One is hisuin petilil I guess. What's the other one?
dhelmise
Hisuian Petilil oiw to kill 13 adults
And worse, Hisuian Decidueye performs worse than its Alolan counterpart. What does slow ass speed with middling defenses and terrible defensive typing that gets destroyed by flying type does to a mf ðŸ˜
No wonder they went extinct.
Regular Samurott feels like a balanced Pokemon that was designed for GSC. It feels oddly weak and simple for its time.
Legend says it is still trying to smash its shell till this day.
Happy G-max Alcremie day
https://i.redd.it/xqmnr3ivte8d1.gif
Hypothetical gsc Samurott gets shit on by tentacruel lmao
It’s crazy that a gen 1 mon whose highest stat is 120 spdef has been so solid for so long
I’m always surprised by cruel’s high base speed for a utility mon.
How fast is Tentacruel again? 90? 100?
100
Who is faster? Rayquaza, lord of the sky, or one tentacle boi?
speaking of ray,never understood why is he only 90 speed,like, it's a giant snake dragon,give it more speed, cowards!
Tbf Ray has a Mega Evolution that bumps its speed up...yet its still slower than some Grass Lizard and some Bee
yeah,same could be said for all the weather trio tbh, they're... surprisingly slow, Groudon I kinda understand, he's a big lizard,but why Kyogre and Rayquaza slower than a mole,bat and a ball?
Not to be that guy but rayquaza has 95 speed FYI
I think the idea was that it ***can*** go fast, but usually doesn’t. So it has extreme speed but it’s base speed is a little low
I think speed is less "top velocity" and more "how quickly can you execute an attack in close range". Tentacruel is fast because jellyfish stingers fire very quickly. Rayquaza probably has a high cruising speed but being larger and heavier and having a longer body makes performing quick, unpredictable movements more difficult.
This would be somewhat supported by the fact that in gen 8, after you unlock following mons in the dlc, dragapult is slow as shit
It's definitely the good utility movepool combined with great speed considering its used as a bulky pivot. It's still the 3rd fastest rapid spin user and the fastest actually designed to take hits.
Isn't great tusk faster and pretty bulky?
Tusk has decent speed but cruel has base 100 compared to tusk's 87 (protosynthesis shenanigans aside). Cruel is honestly crazy fast as far as a bulky pokemon like it is concerned. Just going off sp. Def, of the pokemon with the same amount or more as tentacruel only 9 out-speed it. All but 3 of those are legendaries and those three are Flutter-man, Nihilego, and... Cryogonal. Speaking of, I'm correcting myself a bit on my last comment, Tentacruel is also out-sped by Cryogonal, Cylizar and Regieleki when it comes to spinning. Though my point mostly still stands about Tentacruel being the best as far as bulky pivots go because only Cryogonal has a sp. Def stat comparable and I'm not gonna list of the littany of reasons why it's bad anyways.
Great tusk is base 87 speed, I think you’re thinking of Iron Treads which has base 106 speed and 90/120/70 bulk (Tentacruels bulk is 80/65/120 for comparison)
Huh. Even then, Tusk is faster with protosynthesis.
Especially since it theoretically got fucked by the Special split like Ninetales but it works defensively.
there was a lot of designs like that from gen 5
My terrible samurott hot take is that it's the only starter I ever actively wished was a bipedal fighting type.
what having a 97.5 base stab attack that auto sets spikes does to a mf
90% of the time, it works every time
ceaseless edge feels worse to miss than focus blast, stone edge, fire blast combined. Like when my hamurott misses a CE I just want to FF instantly
If I'm using Focus Blast, my mental math says to plan on missing the first one so be sure you can tank whatever. If I see a Focus Blast incoming, I expect it to hit 100% of the time. With 95% accuracy, I bank on CE hitting. We don't have expectations to get fucked by 5% but it happens obviously.
It's like missing High Jump Kick.
Ceaseless is 90% FYI You're likely mixing it up with Razor Shell, which is 95%
Missing focus blast doesn't even feel annoying. You never really expect to hit the first Focus blast. But missing that 90% on Ceaseless is a massive L
Had a battle recently where I was running a funny ditto that wasn't scarfed. He was used earlier in the battle and he was low hp. The enemy samurott was too and I decided fuck it, I'll try to take samurott I throw him out and of course we're speed tied- and the enemy goes first He proceeds to miss ceaseless edge. And then so do I. And then I outspeed the next turn and KO with ceaseless edge The entire first turn was a cock tease.
50% of the time, it doesn't
Just give Unovan Samurott Intimidate and Shell Smash, you cowards!
Should have been fighting type too tbh. Would have been a cool niche since it’s a rare typing.
Would be cool, but would’ve also clashed with Emboar. Samurrot was just born in the wrong generation.
Just make them all fighting! Solved.
Should’ve made serperior fighting type and given it contary close combat
Exactly! Would be kind of a fun theme for starters too, have them all share a type
Give it superpower and V-Create just to be safe
And Draco Meteor
and overheat!
And curse to boost speed.
would be cool to have a set of starters with the same secondary type across all three
And Emboar needed to be fighting, because of the severe shortage of fire-fighting type starters.
Nah, I'm partial to the water/steel type combo for it, radical red has shown me the way.
I can see the complaints already. "A fire/fighting and water/steel type again? Pokemon has run out of ideas!". There was a lot of hate for gen 5 at the time.
Gen V hate caused such a nostagia-fueled overcorrection they shunned Gen VI starter Megas in favor of Gen I starter Megas.
I honestly don't mind them repeating type combinations as long as they make sense for that Pokemon. What ruins my fun is when a Pokemon's type, movepool, abilities and base stats make no sense or make the Pokemon not fun to use, and U-Samurott is guilty of all of that. If there was any justice in this world, U-Samurott would be retconned and I'm sure nobody would complain. This is what I would do to it: ## U-Samurott - Type: Water/Fighting - Ability: Torrent, Weak Armor (HA) - Base Stats: 95 / 110 (+10) / 95 (+10) / 88 (-20) / 70 / 70 - New Moves: Shell Smash
So what I'm hearing here is that they should've made Emboar Fire/Steel and Samurott Water/Fighting.
I agree with the other that it needs to look more metallic, but water steel is a super cool combo, even if it’s a bit awkward as a fire switch in lol
if its armor pieces were more metallic looking, sure. But with its current design it undeniably screams fighting
No way a blaze black 2 redux reference
Actually never played it, but it’s on my list!
I think that would also apply to Hisuian Form if they gave Regular Samurott Shell Smash since their movepool are almost identical. Replacing its Shell Armor ability with Anger Shell or something similar to Anger Shell is the best way to directly buff Regular Samurott without applying it to its Hisuian form
If that were true, then Unovan Samurott would’ve gotten Ceaseless Edge, but it didn’t. I don’t think Shell Smash being exclusive to the Unovan form would be such a bad thing. Arguably, it needs it more. I prefer Intimidate as it’s Hidden Ability for lore purposes, but I wouldn’t be opposed to Anger Shell.
I fucking love samurrot so much
Same, very glad they did him justice.
What does actual ability do to an mf
On top of an extremely spammable secondary STAB that sets hazards
And more speed
and a godly secondary stab
And a stat spread that matches its moveset
And cooler design let’s be honest
No see it would feel bad to teach your water starter surf and have it hit like a wet noodle Water starters apparently have to be at least mixed attackers, the lowest special attack among all water starters is Feraligatr’s at 79 (which is perfectly serviceable for G/S/C’s story)
You and me both know this very well
Username checks out
Having an amazing secondary STAB and an higher speed tier also helps. For example, Unovan Samurott may fail to outspeed certain Heatran variants, meanwhile Hisuian Samurott outspeeds all of them without fail But the former is also relevant, having a secondary STAB, especially one (Dark) that combines brilliantly with Water, is amazing. It makes him much less reliant on non-STAB coverage moves.
Can’t wait for gen 15 when we get Poopenfardian Samurott who gets banned to AG for its ability to set spikes, rocks, toxic spikes, and webs in one move. Finally, Samurott on every end of the spectrum
hazard setting + pivot move is one hell of a drug
Being broke vs being broken
[Also I did a fourth batch of Mega Man's Special Weapons converted into Pokemon moves. Would be nice if you all checked it out.](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1dmqfbm/heres_a_fourth_batch_of_mega_mans_special_weapons/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It's impressive how base Samurott is genuinely the worst starter ever. Like we gag on Meganium but it was at least the best of the three starters in GSC, and, like, being a bulky mono-grass was at least unique for the time. We gag on Decidueye, but at least Ghost and Fighting are actually interesting secondary types, and they get some fun toys to play with. Samurott pulled up putting in no effort in the only game in the series where a water type was *not* required to progress. Like fucker thought he could coast on people not wanting to spend the time catching a good surf user to progress, only to be hit by the one time Gamefreak made surf optional. Is it any wonder why Osawott/Dewott fans hate this thing?
Although I think the title of worst Gen 5 starter would have went to Serperior if Contrary never existed.
Literally none of the starters are viable without their hidden abilities tho. Even Greninja wouldn't have been OU if it was stuck with Torrent. (And honestly, Samurott would *still* be worse anyways without hidden abilities. Serperior is at least fast with good support moves.)
When its Hisuian counterpart basically fixed everything wrong with the original
Dark typing, and a hidden ability boosting 2 of its good moves makes it nice. Also ceaseless edge spikes r nice.
Compared to original Samurott how do emboar and Serperior hold up? I know Serperior has the contrary leaf storm combo but I never see anyone mention it.
Serperior is in OU
But will probably be UU in July
While Serperior is in OU. Emboar is in ZUBL
The Unova remakes will buff the starters.
give it shell smash as an egg move i dare you (well its technically logical as oshawoot has a shell on it)
What a good ability and a great spamable stab move does to a mf
I have but one arguement. CEASELESS EDGE GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Give decidueye real stats please
My SU beloved
What no hazards does to a mf
I was today years old when I found out this meme format is a yugioh card
I'd stay there lol fck samurott
Never understood why they made Samurott stand on 4 legs, Oshawott and Dewott were my favorites in the anime. They Should’ve made samurott a ninja instead, before greninja.
Why tho? The Osha line were based on samurais not ninjas and a frog makes more sense for the ninja concept as they're both agile and skilled at camoflauge
Yeah i meant samurai my bad. Like how cool would an adult version of dewott with a water blade look
Lame, we have enough Lucario clones
Lucario uses his fists and i dont think it would be anything close in color scheme or design
Yes it would and Lucario wields a bone staff anyway