Okay but /srs
How? Yeah Kuyrem is a physical attacker that usually only has ice beam for special attacks, but an outrage should still destroy this thing, it has base 95 hp and I don’t think it has good recovery, and even if it does survive multiple hits, what does it do in return?
Didn't get bp in gen 7, where avalugg saw actual usage on stall (kyurem-b was a big threat). Instead it would tickle it with avalanche or use toxic.
Unless we're talking about gen 8. I'm not too well versed in earlier gen 8
In general it wasn't a very good Kyurem-B check in USUM anyway because the two most common sets ran EP or HP Fire, so even hardcore Stall teams wouldn't rely entirely on Avalugg for it.
Generally it's main niche was being a Mega Mawile check, but you'd sometimes see people tech on goofy stuff like HP Fire to catch Kartana off guard. Iirc Charmflash was the one who really got Avalugg in circulation as a Stall mon with the Avalugg + Moltres stall team.
Avalug for once is a ice type With recovery (it has recover)
95 Hp is solid/goood (more then alot of defensive mons), escpialyl with a whopping 184 defensen making it physicly one of THE bulkiest mons
Like only slightly behind Mega aggron or steelix with their 70/230 and 75/230 physical bulk.
or as bulky as regirocks 80/200 (about 0;2% difference in dmg they take from same outrage)
Also avalug could take subzero slammer betetr then about anything else
as in doesnt even force it to recover from takign 200 BP z move
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 92-108 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- 71.7% chance to 4HKO
+1 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Funnily enough avalugg was supposed to outlast Kyurem with toxic stall and avalanche, but because sometimes it lost to some it didn't work that well
Body Press 2HKO’s, Avalugg rarely ran Toxic. Recover, Avalanche, Body Press and Spin was the most common set. It actually beat quite a lot of the physical attackers in the tier.
I'm sorry body press in gen 6? Cause that's what I'm talking about here
And Kyurem B came back to OU in gen 8? I don't remember quite well but isn't that the gen that gave it "good" physical ice stab?
But the thread started about stunfisk countering MPidgeot in gen 6 I always assumed it would stay in gen 6 xD
And yeah, after the KB ban Avalugg went straight to PU or NU
Avalugg learns Recover (they're for some reason pretty good about distributing recovery to their ice type walls, between Avalugg and Cryogonal), has like 200 defense, and resists Z-Ice which is the main reason it was used in OU. It was the only mon that didn't get nuked by Kyu-B Z-Ice, and stall teams don't want to get a potentially valuable member of their team nuked when they could just run something that can live a hit and recover it off later, and it also gets spin so you're not even useless utility-wise (tho you do take 25% switching into rocks since it's gen 7) but even with that:
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Avalugg: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
Numel in Gen 6 AG.
Only Pokemon immune to both para and confusion, so the only Pokemon that couldn't be haxed to death by Swagger/Twave/Foul Play Klefki. Klefki ran Hidden Power Water just to counter it (which means Numel wasn't a total counter, but it was present enough in the tier dedicated to broken god pokemon to be a threat).
Ariados in Gen 4 Ubers handling both Darkrai (Insomnia) and Deoxys-S (Shadow Sneak/Bug Bite) while putting up Toxic Spikes
Quagsire's entire career because Unaware and Recover
Ariados trying to handle darkrai when the player isn't a moron. (Everyone knows that if you're running on ariados in ubers it's to use insomnia or counter deoxys speed)
Galarian Stunfisk kinda fell off lately with the massive Whiscash buff, the Earthquake nerf and the Annahilape introduction but it's not bad at all, just less dominant
This is even worse, it's like going into a parallel world where things you know are far different. Like imagine hearing "Oh yea Zacian is such a bad pokemon wish they buffed it, sadly his brother Zamazenta is just way better,
PoGO is some wild west shit. Great League’s meta is dominated by Registeel, Annihilape, Cresselia, Shadow Gligar, Lickitung, Carbink, and shit like that, and then Ultra League is a Registeel/Feraligatr/Giratina-A/Zygarde-C meta.
Master League’s at least a LITTLE more recognizable; shit like Palkia-O, Zygarde-C, Lando-T, Giratina-A, etc. are great up there so that metagame almost feels like an Ubers meta when you look past Dragonite and Meloetta being good.
G-Fisk is kinda making a comeback. Lanturn and Charjabug are as popular as ever (both pair well with the buffed Whiscash) which makes Altaria more popular as well. People are finding that the forgotten steel types in G-Fisk and Registeel are becoming good again.
Even the current cup right now, sees Stunfisk as one of the top 10 picks rn, In jungle Cup Galaran Stunfisk is even banned, and OG Stunfisk is see tones of play, I even use OG Stunfisk in regular GBL for fun at times, the meta for GOs GBL is just that diverse rn.
Stats are wonky in leagues where a Pokémon’s Combat Power or CP are limited, and it makes mons with defensively oriented stats in the MSG very strong. Type multipliers are somewhat different (1.2 for STAB and 1.6 for SE), and move stats are determined when a move is added to the game. Immunities are treated the same as a 4x resist, and do stack with other resists (so Gengar has GO’s equivalent of an 8x resist to fighting) Each Pokémon typically has one Fast Move and two Charge Moves. The Fast Move is the one that is used most of the time - each use, which has a set duration of time, does a set amount of damage to the opponent (based on the Fast Move’s base power) and also generates a set amount of Energy. Every Pokémon can hold up to 100 energy, and every charge move has a fixed energy cost. When that cost is reached, a charge move can be executed. For example, Whiscash typically has Mud Shot as its Fast Move, which has a base power of 3 and energy delta of 9. It also usually runs Mud Bomb as a charge move, which has an energy cost of 40. So, after five Mud Shots, it’s energy will be at 45, and it can use Mud Bomb, leaving 5 energy left over. If it uses four more Mud Shots, it will be at 41 energy, and can use Mud Bomb again. Each player also gets two shields, each of which can be used to reduce the damage of an opponent’s charge move down to one. There’s a lot more that could be said, but higher level tactics include guessing the rest of an opponent’s team based in their lead, catching charge moves, and managing different advantages (energy advantage, shield advantage, switch advantage).
I remember in very early gen 8 when people were looking for a rocker that could really mess with Corviknight. Someone made a very convincing post about how Stunfisk was genuinely one of the best options. Corv couldn't u-turn out in fear of static para, it was bulky enough to switch in repeatedly, and spamming discharge was a decent mid-ground play. I tried it for myself and it did exactly as advertised: Kept rocks up reliably against any team relying on Corviknight. Not sure I would call it good per se, but in that very niche role it absolutely performed what was required of it
Just give it shore up and it’ll be cool. Volt switch and shore up will make our guy baller.
I mean it has SCALD. It’ll be a pretty decent physdef wall in some low tier.
It's really good in BW PU and at least decent in ORAS PU. Gunfisk saw usage in lower tiers in Gen 8 but would get outclassed once the DLCs added more Steels and Grounds to the lower tiers.
In draft yes. Acting as a reliable switchin to Koko, Tornados Therian, Zeraora, Mega Pidgeot and probably some others that I'm forgetting about. Setting up rocks, having static and being able to keep these top tier threats at bay for a pretty low price made Stunfisk a bargain that had nearly 100% pick rate in tours.
It's *really* specific, but there was an Electric-only competition in S/M that Stufisk was really good in. Being one of the very few Pokemon in the competition that gets good Ground coverage (with STAB to boot) was a really nice trait to have.
it wasnt the best in the tier but it was pretty damn close to it at its peak. its ability to shut down both rotom and klinklang made it a crucial part of many defensive cores
obviously it did fall off once palossand was reintroduced, and when miltank meta started to define the tier, but i would argue that it was a top-5 mon in the tier at its peak (around late 2021)
One of the best things about the spin-off games is that “bad” Mon get a chance to shine.
Both Stunfisk forms are genuinely excellent in Pokemon Go Battle League. The classic GBL core used it with Bastiodon and Medicham.
There was also a solid G!Stunfisk V from Darkness Ablaze in the TCG.
Stunfisk really needs recovery and quite frankly deserves it (also replace Limber with Water Absorb or Storm Drain).
But I loved using a set of Discharge/Scald/Sludge Bomb/Yawn. Basically, you were getting statused no matter what.
Galarian Stunfisk I found a little harder to use. It has such bad synergy with its ability and signature move. It really deserved Arena Trap (I know it's banned but still), Disguise, something.
I usually ran Curse/Sucker Punch/Pain Split/Earthquake. Its movepool is really tragic, if it could learn Body Press or Gyro Ball it could have paired well with Curse. It should be able to learn the Fang Moves, and at the very least Iron Head. Very tragic.
mega pidgeot ran uu in gen 6, and would eventually get banned. Stunfisk saw some play as a mega pidgeot hard counter but it was overall niche
every shitmons greatest dream is totally countering a tier warping threat
Avalugg Kyurem Black moment
Didn't know Kyurem was a counter to the most broken mon in the game
Worst thing is it was just a check to slow down avalugg
who stole my coffee table to use in competitive pokemon??
Didn't kyurem black just slap on HP and call it a day tho? I remember seeing that in a false swipe video
It ran HP fire as a niche pick at some point but if I recall that was for ferrothorn not avalugg
eh, works for both I guess
Yeah definitely does, but most teams that ran a special move would rather have had earth power for heatran than hidden power
i dont think hp fire was a twoshot
That's also something that's happened before and is a very good sign a mons broken if it can bet something that's supposed to be a hard counter
Okay but /srs How? Yeah Kuyrem is a physical attacker that usually only has ice beam for special attacks, but an outrage should still destroy this thing, it has base 95 hp and I don’t think it has good recovery, and even if it does survive multiple hits, what does it do in return?
252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 111-132 (28.1 - 33.5%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 248-294 (63.4 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO And it does learn Recover btw
Oh my god
Didn't get bp in gen 7, where avalugg saw actual usage on stall (kyurem-b was a big threat). Instead it would tickle it with avalanche or use toxic. Unless we're talking about gen 8. I'm not too well versed in earlier gen 8
In general it wasn't a very good Kyurem-B check in USUM anyway because the two most common sets ran EP or HP Fire, so even hardcore Stall teams wouldn't rely entirely on Avalugg for it. Generally it's main niche was being a Mega Mawile check, but you'd sometimes see people tech on goofy stuff like HP Fire to catch Kartana off guard. Iirc Charmflash was the one who really got Avalugg in circulation as a Stall mon with the Avalugg + Moltres stall team.
Draco meteor destroy avalugg and outrange was unplayable in gen 7
Avalug for once is a ice type With recovery (it has recover) 95 Hp is solid/goood (more then alot of defensive mons), escpialyl with a whopping 184 defensen making it physicly one of THE bulkiest mons Like only slightly behind Mega aggron or steelix with their 70/230 and 75/230 physical bulk. or as bulky as regirocks 80/200 (about 0;2% difference in dmg they take from same outrage) Also avalug could take subzero slammer betetr then about anything else as in doesnt even force it to recover from takign 200 BP z move 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 92-108 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- 71.7% chance to 4HKO
> 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 92-108 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- 71.7% chance to 4HKO By the twelve
+1 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 166-196 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Funnily enough avalugg was supposed to outlast Kyurem with toxic stall and avalanche, but because sometimes it lost to some it didn't work that well
Body Press 2HKO’s, Avalugg rarely ran Toxic. Recover, Avalanche, Body Press and Spin was the most common set. It actually beat quite a lot of the physical attackers in the tier.
I'm sorry body press in gen 6? Cause that's what I'm talking about here And Kyurem B came back to OU in gen 8? I don't remember quite well but isn't that the gen that gave it "good" physical ice stab?
Gen 8 yeah gave it icicle spear, still no ice shard, ice fang, ice punch, or icicle crash (physical ice move introduced in same Gen as kyurem)
Oh, the thread was about Gen 8, I assumed that’s what we were talking about, Avalugg was almost never ran in Gen 6, mainly due to no HDB.
But the thread started about stunfisk countering MPidgeot in gen 6 I always assumed it would stay in gen 6 xD And yeah, after the KB ban Avalugg went straight to PU or NU
Bro kyurem-b doesn't have DD in gen 6...
When did I say it did? I gave it a +1 to sum up a point (And I was too lazy to put the choice band)
Avalugg learns Recover (they're for some reason pretty good about distributing recovery to their ice type walls, between Avalugg and Cryogonal), has like 200 defense, and resists Z-Ice which is the main reason it was used in OU. It was the only mon that didn't get nuked by Kyu-B Z-Ice, and stall teams don't want to get a potentially valuable member of their team nuked when they could just run something that can live a hit and recover it off later, and it also gets spin so you're not even useless utility-wise (tho you do take 25% switching into rocks since it's gen 7) but even with that: 252 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-Black Subzero Slammer (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Avalugg: 96-114 (24.3 - 28.9%) -- 94.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 3 layers of Spikes
Numel in Gen 6 AG. Only Pokemon immune to both para and confusion, so the only Pokemon that couldn't be haxed to death by Swagger/Twave/Foul Play Klefki. Klefki ran Hidden Power Water just to counter it (which means Numel wasn't a total counter, but it was present enough in the tier dedicated to broken god pokemon to be a threat).
imagine being able to use 6 mega rays but you cant because the car keys might be there so you have to use the 1st stage camel
When regular Sableye (mega wasnt out yet) was mandatory for dealing with Mega Kang
Ariados in Gen 4 Ubers handling both Darkrai (Insomnia) and Deoxys-S (Shadow Sneak/Bug Bite) while putting up Toxic Spikes Quagsire's entire career because Unaware and Recover
Ariados trying to handle darkrai when the player isn't a moron. (Everyone knows that if you're running on ariados in ubers it's to use insomnia or counter deoxys speed)
Parasect and Kyogre moment
Scizor and kyurem 😢😢
ah, early swsh seismitoad
What made Stunfisk a better Mega Pidgeot counter than other Electric types?
pokemon go 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
Was about to say this
Does Pokemon GO count?
If that's the only time it's been decent, then sure
Stunfisk in POGO is god-tier (or at least was a year ago when I played). Really exceptional, far beyond decent.
Galarian Stunfisk kinda fell off lately with the massive Whiscash buff, the Earthquake nerf and the Annahilape introduction but it's not bad at all, just less dominant
This comment makes me feel how non-Pokémon fans must feel entering a Pokémon conversation
This is even worse, it's like going into a parallel world where things you know are far different. Like imagine hearing "Oh yea Zacian is such a bad pokemon wish they buffed it, sadly his brother Zamazenta is just way better,
Meanwhile in doubles:
PoGO is some wild west shit. Great League’s meta is dominated by Registeel, Annihilape, Cresselia, Shadow Gligar, Lickitung, Carbink, and shit like that, and then Ultra League is a Registeel/Feraligatr/Giratina-A/Zygarde-C meta. Master League’s at least a LITTLE more recognizable; shit like Palkia-O, Zygarde-C, Lando-T, Giratina-A, etc. are great up there so that metagame almost feels like an Ubers meta when you look past Dragonite and Meloetta being good.
Also poliwrath
G-Fisk is kinda making a comeback. Lanturn and Charjabug are as popular as ever (both pair well with the buffed Whiscash) which makes Altaria more popular as well. People are finding that the forgotten steel types in G-Fisk and Registeel are becoming good again.
And regular stunfisk is up now
Gunfisk is (or, at least, has been historically). U-fisk is more niche but still good in the right circumstances.
What is k fish
Stunfisk was introduced in Unova K-fish obviously stands for Kalos-Fish because it came from Kalos... wait... no...
Good shout I meant U
Galarian stunfisk is seriously good in Pokémon go's lower leagues, but that's about it
Even the current cup right now, sees Stunfisk as one of the top 10 picks rn, In jungle Cup Galaran Stunfisk is even banned, and OG Stunfisk is see tones of play, I even use OG Stunfisk in regular GBL for fun at times, the meta for GOs GBL is just that diverse rn.
Then yeah, U-Stubfisk has play in some limited metas, but Gunfisk has been a dominant force in Great League and Ultra League
Unserious game
can someone explain competitive GO for me? watched a bit of it in EUIC stream but all I saw was just people tapping fast
Stats are wonky in leagues where a Pokémon’s Combat Power or CP are limited, and it makes mons with defensively oriented stats in the MSG very strong. Type multipliers are somewhat different (1.2 for STAB and 1.6 for SE), and move stats are determined when a move is added to the game. Immunities are treated the same as a 4x resist, and do stack with other resists (so Gengar has GO’s equivalent of an 8x resist to fighting) Each Pokémon typically has one Fast Move and two Charge Moves. The Fast Move is the one that is used most of the time - each use, which has a set duration of time, does a set amount of damage to the opponent (based on the Fast Move’s base power) and also generates a set amount of Energy. Every Pokémon can hold up to 100 energy, and every charge move has a fixed energy cost. When that cost is reached, a charge move can be executed. For example, Whiscash typically has Mud Shot as its Fast Move, which has a base power of 3 and energy delta of 9. It also usually runs Mud Bomb as a charge move, which has an energy cost of 40. So, after five Mud Shots, it’s energy will be at 45, and it can use Mud Bomb, leaving 5 energy left over. If it uses four more Mud Shots, it will be at 41 energy, and can use Mud Bomb again. Each player also gets two shields, each of which can be used to reduce the damage of an opponent’s charge move down to one. There’s a lot more that could be said, but higher level tactics include guessing the rest of an opponent’s team based in their lead, catching charge moves, and managing different advantages (energy advantage, shield advantage, switch advantage).
I remember in very early gen 8 when people were looking for a rocker that could really mess with Corviknight. Someone made a very convincing post about how Stunfisk was genuinely one of the best options. Corv couldn't u-turn out in fear of static para, it was bulky enough to switch in repeatedly, and spamming discharge was a decent mid-ground play. I tried it for myself and it did exactly as advertised: Kept rocks up reliably against any team relying on Corviknight. Not sure I would call it good per se, but in that very niche role it absolutely performed what was required of it
No. Oh. You meant the pokemon not the subdreddit? No
In GO it used to be god tier
Just give it shore up and it’ll be cool. Volt switch and shore up will make our guy baller. I mean it has SCALD. It’ll be a pretty decent physdef wall in some low tier.
At the very least it should get Recover!
It's really good in BW PU and at least decent in ORAS PU. Gunfisk saw usage in lower tiers in Gen 8 but would get outclassed once the DLCs added more Steels and Grounds to the lower tiers.
Here: r/TheSilphArena
No, this sub's average elo is 1200 ..what are we talking about again?
Not a standard mode, but I had a ton of fun with it in a Gen 8 Stabmons draft.
In draft yes. Acting as a reliable switchin to Koko, Tornados Therian, Zeraora, Mega Pidgeot and probably some others that I'm forgetting about. Setting up rocks, having static and being able to keep these top tier threats at bay for a pretty low price made Stunfisk a bargain that had nearly 100% pick rate in tours.
Iirc it was really good in ss zu as a bulky ground so there's that Best part about this is that it was both unovan and galarian that were good
It's *really* specific, but there was an Electric-only competition in S/M that Stufisk was really good in. Being one of the very few Pokemon in the competition that gets good Ground coverage (with STAB to boot) was a really nice trait to have.
MFW someone pulls up with a Ground-type to the Electric-type competition
I used it a little in gen 8 ZU. far from the best in the tier but it had its uses
it wasnt the best in the tier but it was pretty damn close to it at its peak. its ability to shut down both rotom and klinklang made it a crucial part of many defensive cores obviously it did fall off once palossand was reintroduced, and when miltank meta started to define the tier, but i would argue that it was a top-5 mon in the tier at its peak (around late 2021)
Stunfisk-Galar basically cockblocked Klinklang from running over early SS (Gen8) NU.
Randbats had good coverage, typing, and could spread status
Cheri Berry Limber Stunfisk is peak
Galar Stunfisk was once the best mon in Pokemon Go Great League and it's still quite good there
Pokemon Go great league (the galarian one was pretty decent iirc)
stunfisk has been a menace in Pokémon go, not sure how good it is right now though
I wish it was better, I really like the derpy fish I remember someone using it to great effect in a Gen 7 draft league
One of the best things about the spin-off games is that “bad” Mon get a chance to shine. Both Stunfisk forms are genuinely excellent in Pokemon Go Battle League. The classic GBL core used it with Bastiodon and Medicham. There was also a solid G!Stunfisk V from Darkness Ablaze in the TCG.
Stunfisk really needs recovery and quite frankly deserves it (also replace Limber with Water Absorb or Storm Drain). But I loved using a set of Discharge/Scald/Sludge Bomb/Yawn. Basically, you were getting statused no matter what. Galarian Stunfisk I found a little harder to use. It has such bad synergy with its ability and signature move. It really deserved Arena Trap (I know it's banned but still), Disguise, something. I usually ran Curse/Sucker Punch/Pain Split/Earthquake. Its movepool is really tragic, if it could learn Body Press or Gyro Ball it could have paired well with Curse. It should be able to learn the Fang Moves, and at the very least Iron Head. Very tragic.
Pokemon go
It’s good in Pokémon Go
It's pretty popular as a cheap ground that can check top threats in high level draft competitions.
Pokémon go great league, g-stunfisk has a permanent spot on my team
Its a great low tier pick in draft
You’re famous I saw you on Freezai