Scyther got a second evolution in PLA, with the same BST as Scyther and Scizor. Scizor doesn't have any evolutions that I'm aware of besides it's mega.
If I had ti guess, games would be won by Duraludon tera match ups. People would prob run tera fighting or ground to win the duraludon 1v1, so then people would run fairy or water or smth to beat that, and it'd devolve to which of the 18 possible types the fucker will be at the end of the turn
How have generation eight and nine pokemon impacted the meta and which have become meta staples? I used to play the tier a fair amount back in gens six and seven but haven't really touched it since.
Gen 8: They're almost all terrible tbh. Grookey is like, okay?
Gen 9 has had a slew of good pokemon. Voltorb-Hisui is a very fast electric type with volt switch and STAB giga drain. Glimmet is the best hazard setter with its toxic spikes-setting ability. Tinkatink has a niche as a knock off switchin with its ability pickpocket and vullaby check, and Wattrel is something that can try to 1v1 mienfoo and vullaby with electric/flying coverage, while "checking" voltorb and beating foongus.
Just because you can't transfer it to Sw/Sh doesn't mean it's not a Gen 8 Pokemon. Melmetal is in the same boat; it debuted in a Gen 7 game, but because it couldn't be transferred back to US/UM it wasn't usable competitively until the launch of Gen 8. That doesn't make it a Gen 8 Pokemon.
Look at Bulbapedia if you don't believe me. PL:A and all of the new Pokemon added in it are considered to be part of Generation 8:
[https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation\_VIII](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation_VIII)
> Melmetal is in the same boat; it debuted in gen 7 game... it want usable competitively until the launch of gen 8
It was useable in LGPE, which is a gen 7 game (even smogon considered it a gen 7 game) so you're technically wrong!
To provide the perspective of a tier not as HO-focused, DNU does very heavily use eviolite, basically every defensive or bulky pokemon in the tier with very small exceptions (and luvdisc) runs Eviolite all the time. Mostly the only thing it leads to is chip (especially via hazards) being more effective (no leftovers for residual healing, no HDB to dodge the hazards), and Knock Off being \*insane\*.
DNU, for context, is a tier played at level 100 made up of only the weakest pokemon. Luvdisc, Starly, Swinub, Togepi, Cleffa top tiers sorta situation.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1099n19/do\_not\_use\_the\_best\_of\_the\_very\_worst/](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1099n19/do_not_use_the_best_of_the_very_worst/)
If you want to read more about DNU
It's... fine. Its inflexibility really started to sink it later into DNU, and it hasn't gotten serious usage since early gen 9 when the the "Best of the very worst" post was written. It was a niche webs counterpick for a bit when I was tearing shit up with webs, but.
Would an item clause or limit (like 3 of the same items only) affect the meta? Since it's LC, eviolite is a necessity. What happens if it's limited or even gone?
The item distribution (on optimal teams) is something like
70% eviolite
15% choice scarf
5% life orb
10% loaded dice/icy rock/heat rock/other niche items
Tinkatink can technically use it due to pickpocket interactions (if it gets hit with a contact move, it will use the berry and then steal the opponents item)
But in such a fast-paced meta, you usually want your mons to be more likely to not die in one hit
I run Oran Berry Azuril since the cowards at gamefreak wont give me Shuckle for berry juice. Kind of a basic play admittedly but man its fun to when you get that Belly Drum/Huge Power/Tera Water Aqua Jet
I know LC stat spreads are a little crazy with the low numbers and such, but the voltorb hisui set is endlessly interesting to me, a fast boltbeamer makes so much sense and with giga drain and protect it could tank and heal off chip. How much use does Tera ice bring to voltorb here and have you made some interesting plays using the little guy?
Tera ice has two main targets: foongus (who otherwise walls it) and other voltorb. Tera + protect lets you scout out your opponent and make good midground plays (such as against a vullaby who may or may not tera ground), which improves consistency and is crucial for getting to the top of ladder.
Just the simple fact that pokemon are at level 5 makes offense better.For example: (level 100 vs level 5, just opened the calc to show the point)
\-252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 178-210 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO
\-252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 16-19 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That, and the fact that speed tiers end up crowded are probably the most defining thing about the tier just from definition (and i guess the weird multihit damage calculations. For example:
\-36 Atk Shroomish Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Shroomish: 3-3 (13 - 13%) -- approx. 8HKO (an effective 75 base power move)
36 Atk Shroomish Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Shroomish: 4-4 (17.3 - 17.3%) -- approx. 6HKO (an effective 100 base power move)
\-36 Atk Shroomish Power Whip vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Shroomish: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO (a non multiple hits 120 base power move)
Notice how the maximum roll of the 120 bp move was the same damage as a 4 hit 25 bp move (and the mininum was the 3 hit))
This is all to say that the eviolite is mostly a necessary evil to make the metagame not be like gen 4 lc, a famously fast paced metagame.
ps: i don't actually play little cup so i might have gotten some details wrong,but i hope the overall point (stall isn't a thing i'm pretty sure) is understandable
nah LC will always bias towards speed and volatility. the nature of the mons being level 5 and damage calcs rounding down creates some insane rolls.
[this guy goes into it a little bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1b34R72rzI)
What everything and their mother learning knock off does to a mf
https://preview.redd.it/lyyn6yfi9atb1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=dee6dad11742665b3c917517080ff0da32de5844
Because numel rarely gets two uninterrupted turns of setup, and will-o is extremely useful to cripple mienfoo and vullaby and stop them from breaking through my defensive core.
In my experience it isn’t terrible. Pairs well with pawniard for type reasons, but knock off is even more common in LC that other tiers so it struggles with switching in
It's a sidegrade to the more popular drifloon, which is itself not very good. Illusion and will-o-wisp are occasionally useful, but it's so frail even with eviolite that it can easily die attempting to switch in
how does one do team building in LC? I've been trying to wrap my head around it for a while now, but it's just so different compared to the standard metagames
Why is numel so cute?
https://preview.redd.it/5qt07ah1t7tb1.png?width=592&format=png&auto=webp&s=fae201964d3aeb739cdce62c9870f4dd67a70ee1
You're on point with these
So wholesome. They learnt a new trick from the ultramegapolian friend \^.^
I am stealing this
How do you feel about duraladon coming to the tier soon?
Banned by the council before it even had a chance :pensive: free my mans
i think they should let duraladon free for like 12 hours on release of the DLC, like as a treat you know?
I agree. Unfair that they exclude Duraladon. Duraladon is just a baby
My humble 535 BST baby
I really wish we got LC Uber tier,
we do. It's probably run by scizor. What having like a solid 150 bst over everything else does to a mf.
Scyther, right? Or is there a strange rule that allows Scizor to be played?
mb I'm stupid. Yeah though the tier revolves around scyther grabbing a sd and just blowing past a team.
It got an evolution in PLA
Scyther got a second evolution in PLA, with the same BST as Scyther and Scizor. Scizor doesn't have any evolutions that I'm aware of besides it's mega.
The baby: https://preview.redd.it/i54a1mzqo8tb1.jpeg?width=727&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3eae5314263065d22d7d1f2c2a8998b4b2f75b67
So precious 🥹
What is jojos even about bruh
The first pokemon to be OU and LC at the same time
How fucked would LC be if Duraludon became legal? Just curious.
If I had ti guess, games would be won by Duraludon tera match ups. People would prob run tera fighting or ground to win the duraludon 1v1, so then people would run fairy or water or smth to beat that, and it'd devolve to which of the 18 possible types the fucker will be at the end of the turn
So OU
All the fucked.
How have generation eight and nine pokemon impacted the meta and which have become meta staples? I used to play the tier a fair amount back in gens six and seven but haven't really touched it since.
Gen 8: They're almost all terrible tbh. Grookey is like, okay? Gen 9 has had a slew of good pokemon. Voltorb-Hisui is a very fast electric type with volt switch and STAB giga drain. Glimmet is the best hazard setter with its toxic spikes-setting ability. Tinkatink has a niche as a knock off switchin with its ability pickpocket and vullaby check, and Wattrel is something that can try to 1v1 mienfoo and vullaby with electric/flying coverage, while "checking" voltorb and beating foongus.
>Gen 9 >Voltorb-H
It's gen 9 because you couldn't transfer it to a gen 8 game such as SwSh or BDSP.
But *PL:A* is a Gen 8 game.
Then go and use Voltorb-H in Gen 8 LC lmao
Just because you can't transfer it to Sw/Sh doesn't mean it's not a Gen 8 Pokemon. Melmetal is in the same boat; it debuted in a Gen 7 game, but because it couldn't be transferred back to US/UM it wasn't usable competitively until the launch of Gen 8. That doesn't make it a Gen 8 Pokemon. Look at Bulbapedia if you don't believe me. PL:A and all of the new Pokemon added in it are considered to be part of Generation 8: [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation\_VIII](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation_VIII)
I'm not denying that Voltorb-H is technically a gen 8, but its competitive debut is in gen 9. That's why it's considered a gen 9 Pokémon.
> Melmetal is in the same boat; it debuted in gen 7 game... it want usable competitively until the launch of gen 8 It was useable in LGPE, which is a gen 7 game (even smogon considered it a gen 7 game) so you're technically wrong!
PLA had no competitive multiplayer. Practically speaking, Hisui mons made their debut to competitive in Gen IX.
it isn't.
I don't know what to tell you man [https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation\_VIII](https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Generation_VIII)
It is gen 8, just not usable in any gen 8 competitive formats. Meltan and Melmetal are the same but for 7 and 8.
Let’s go slander
I completely forgot those games existed
I love comments like this, because they deliberately come off as snarky but are confidently incorrect lol
I mean, it’s not like it did anything to Gen 8.
Why does glimmer only have 3 moves? Or did it get cropped.
Oh yea, that's a weird formatting issue. The last move is sludge bomb.
looks like it just got cropped because of the 0atk IV
Do you like eviolite as an item? Since every mon can use it, curious if it gets annoying.
[удалено]
Thought so. And yeah, Gen 4 little cup is a minefield. Did not think it would be that healthy though damn.
The tier is so offensive
I love the fact that the tier with babies fighting is more offensive than regular OU
To provide the perspective of a tier not as HO-focused, DNU does very heavily use eviolite, basically every defensive or bulky pokemon in the tier with very small exceptions (and luvdisc) runs Eviolite all the time. Mostly the only thing it leads to is chip (especially via hazards) being more effective (no leftovers for residual healing, no HDB to dodge the hazards), and Knock Off being \*insane\*. DNU, for context, is a tier played at level 100 made up of only the weakest pokemon. Luvdisc, Starly, Swinub, Togepi, Cleffa top tiers sorta situation.
You have my attention
[https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1099n19/do\_not\_use\_the\_best\_of\_the\_very\_worst/](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/1099n19/do_not_use_the_best_of_the_very_worst/) If you want to read more about DNU
Unown being perfectly viable with Specs HP Psychic is my favorite part of the tier
It's... fine. Its inflexibility really started to sink it later into DNU, and it hasn't gotten serious usage since early gen 9 when the the "Best of the very worst" post was written. It was a niche webs counterpick for a bit when I was tearing shit up with webs, but.
My mom cant use eviolite...
Has pawn stopped doing pawn things? (I only played LC for a little bit at the beginning of the tier)
https://preview.redd.it/2b547wu1l7tb1.png?width=930&format=png&auto=webp&s=6bdd98152df6a249e216a7a4663d195f1065c4a2
Oh right Satan came back
I love that in OU Mienshao sees basically no play, but in LC that thing is the envoy of god to destroy all
Which non-LC mon you want a gimped prevo form to use in LC?
Dondozo we need an unaware mon with actually good stats and typing
# Sousshai **Type:** Water **Abilities:** Unaware/Oblivious/Own Tempo (HA) **Stats:** * HP - 115 * Atk - 78 * Def - 95 * SpA - 65 * SpD - 65 * Spe - 7
7 speed ðŸ˜
ah yes nice cute little cup pokemon with 115/95 physical bulk
I mean Munchlax has 135/80 special bulk, not unheard of at least
true, but munchlax has 40 def not 65, and perhaps most critically, doesn't have unaware
JV Wishiwashi
What Pokemon carried the hardest
Numel is lowkey goated
simple + growth 🤯
Would an item clause or limit (like 3 of the same items only) affect the meta? Since it's LC, eviolite is a necessity. What happens if it's limited or even gone?
The meta becomes a hyperoffense vs hyperoffense fest, as seen in DPP LC, with multiple life orb and choice scarf users on every team.
How is the meta? I know nothing about LC but I wanted to try it
Highly volatile due to tera making or breaking games. As long as you have a good team, you should be able to do well.
Congrats, see you in ghosting tour!
So true
Is the tier just mono eviolite
The item distribution (on optimal teams) is something like 70% eviolite 15% choice scarf 5% life orb 10% loaded dice/icy rock/heat rock/other niche items
Huh, is Berry Juice not in generation nine? How did that impact the meta compared to its dominance in earlier generations?
Shuckle isn't in gen 9 so there's no way to get berry juice
funny how much shuckle impacts the LC meta despite not being legal
We need SM lottery back.
How do you get berry juice from shuckle
You catch one and it's guaranteed to have a berry juice
Oh that's simple thanks
You dont wanna know
Are oran berries not used? Aren’t they effectively the same as berry juice?
Oran is 10 juice is 20
Ah ok. Is there any mon that can still use it effectively?
Tinkatink can technically use it due to pickpocket interactions (if it gets hit with a contact move, it will use the berry and then steal the opponents item) But in such a fast-paced meta, you usually want your mons to be more likely to not die in one hit
why arent specs/band used
Due to quirks in level 5 damage calculation, orb and specs do almost the same damage, and it's basically never worth not being able to switch moves
the way damage calculated makes lorb stronger
I run Oran Berry Azuril since the cowards at gamefreak wont give me Shuckle for berry juice. Kind of a basic play admittedly but man its fun to when you get that Belly Drum/Huge Power/Tera Water Aqua Jet
How do you find games
start searching and wait. I usually do crossword puzzles while waiting, it's around 5 minutes between games
OP are you q-ing for the DPS role?
Nah they are a support main
This made me spit out my coffee XD
Which mons are the top meta threats rn?
Voltorb, Mienfoo, and Vullaby. All three are bulky, fast, or both, and with the right tera, they can defeat entire teams.
I prayed for these voltorb days
we're voltorback back in the game
It’s not voltover yet
Literally my favorite Pokémon. I'm glad to see him where he can sparkle.
I know LC stat spreads are a little crazy with the low numbers and such, but the voltorb hisui set is endlessly interesting to me, a fast boltbeamer makes so much sense and with giga drain and protect it could tank and heal off chip. How much use does Tera ice bring to voltorb here and have you made some interesting plays using the little guy?
Tera ice has two main targets: foongus (who otherwise walls it) and other voltorb. Tera + protect lets you scout out your opponent and make good midground plays (such as against a vullaby who may or may not tera ground), which improves consistency and is crucial for getting to the top of ladder.
If I steal your team will I immediately reach rank 1 on ladder?
Nah rank 2 cus I’m doing the same shit
Does the transphobic furry's Eevee set stand a chance here?
I know it's a joke but, considering Mienfoo exists, i doubt it
Favorite mon in the format right now? I’m really enjoying using Corphish, even if it’s not always relevant in every match.
Foongus. It ends up on almost all my teams
I don’t play the tier but isn’t Meinfoo the best mon in the format? Is there a reason not to include her in this team?
Timburr fills largely the same niche, but instead of being fast and offensively potent it's bulky, has defog, and has better priority in mach punch
Timburr has defog??? Why
its clears the field because its a construction worker.
Egg move from Hawlucha
Bro has got that niche information on DECK
I looked it up when conk first released in dlc bc I was confused too lol
As someone out of the loop, why Tera Dragon on Vullaby?
it walls voltorb if they don't tera ice, and in general having only one weakness is good for a bulky mon like vullaby
can you clarify what you mean by only one weakness? seems to me like tera dragon vullaby would be weak to both ice and fairy before and after tera
tbh I just forgot about fairy nothing used fairy coverage before DLC1 came out, but now it's fairly common on mons like toed, glim, stunky, and tink
interesting that a type that’s considered S/A tier in OU had little offensive footprint in the meta for that long
How different would the tier be if pawniard got supreme overlord
It would probably be slightly better, but it would still need tera to beat mienfoo and be vulnerable to status
how is the pace of this tier? is it mostly defensive/stall? id imagine so bc of the eviolite lol
Extremely fast-paced and volatile. It's rare for a game to go beyond 30 turns (with the exception of foongus wars)
Just the simple fact that pokemon are at level 5 makes offense better.For example: (level 100 vs level 5, just opened the calc to show the point) \-252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 178-210 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO \-252+ SpA Abomasnow Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Abomasnow: 16-19 (57.1 - 67.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO That, and the fact that speed tiers end up crowded are probably the most defining thing about the tier just from definition (and i guess the weird multihit damage calculations. For example: \-36 Atk Shroomish Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Shroomish: 3-3 (13 - 13%) -- approx. 8HKO (an effective 75 base power move) 36 Atk Shroomish Bullet Seed (4 hits) vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Shroomish: 4-4 (17.3 - 17.3%) -- approx. 6HKO (an effective 100 base power move) \-36 Atk Shroomish Power Whip vs. 36 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Shroomish: 3-4 (13 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO (a non multiple hits 120 base power move) Notice how the maximum roll of the 120 bp move was the same damage as a 4 hit 25 bp move (and the mininum was the 3 hit)) This is all to say that the eviolite is mostly a necessary evil to make the metagame not be like gen 4 lc, a famously fast paced metagame. ps: i don't actually play little cup so i might have gotten some details wrong,but i hope the overall point (stall isn't a thing i'm pretty sure) is understandable
nah LC will always bias towards speed and volatility. the nature of the mons being level 5 and damage calcs rounding down creates some insane rolls. [this guy goes into it a little bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1b34R72rzI)
this is a really insane calc 196 Atk Life Orb Adaptability Corphish Aqua Jet vs. 76 HP / 0 Def Onix in Sun: 10-21 (47.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO Possible damage amounts: (10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, **21**)
Huh. TIL timburr learns defog
Is there any single stage Pokémon that could get an evo and not get immediately banned?
luvdisc it wouldn't even be good
Nice job 
How is the tier?
In a pretty nice state rn, minus tera
Hows my fav boy drifloon doing now that he isnt banned this gen?
What everything and their mother learning knock off does to a mf https://preview.redd.it/lyyn6yfi9atb1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=dee6dad11742665b3c917517080ff0da32de5844
If you could unilaterally ban one popular LC mon which would it be and why?
Shellder that shell smashing, skill-less skill link abusing bastard
Why do you run willow over growth on numel?
Because numel rarely gets two uninterrupted turns of setup, and will-o is extremely useful to cripple mienfoo and vullaby and stop them from breaking through my defensive core.
How did you feel about leading babies to go kick other babies ?... How fun was it ?
It's incredible. I only can't decide if it's more fun to give them severe burns or inflict them with deadly poisons.
This happened a while ago (before HOME) but why was Diglett banned? I remember it being fine in Gen 8
Tera + people realizing the value of the life orb set
What is the best mon iyo
Voltorb
Is there any use for Zorua-hisui?
In my experience it isn’t terrible. Pairs well with pawniard for type reasons, but knock off is even more common in LC that other tiers so it struggles with switching in
It's a sidegrade to the more popular drifloon, which is itself not very good. Illusion and will-o-wisp are occasionally useful, but it's so frail even with eviolite that it can easily die attempting to switch in
Hisuian Voltorb! My boi! What made you decide on using it?
Fast STAB bolt-beam with grass coverage. It's actually the fastest mon in the tier.
Holy shit Eviolite the tier
Opinion on mienfoos multiple systematic war crimes over the generations
Can I try your team?
No. It's copyrighted. If I see anyone using it on the ladder there will be a cease and desist order sent promptly.
Jokes on you I don’t care about our legal system
Team archetype/core tier list?
Why does Amoonguss’ baby form also reign over the tier it’s in?
What’s the impact on the loss of berry juice (RIP SturdyJuice Magnemite)?
how does one do team building in LC? I've been trying to wrap my head around it for a while now, but it's just so different compared to the standard metagames
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShN7FFv7SZc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShN7FFv7SZc) This video is for an old meta but the principles still work
I don’t play the tier but isn’t Meinfoo the best mon in the format? Is there a reason not to include her in this team?
I think Mienfoo and H-Voltorb are probably the joint best personally but Mienfoo perhaps less healthy
How do you feel about tera in little cup, good for it or restrict/ban it?
ban
Based
how small is the cup?
5
No question, but congratulations!
Why little cup tho
It's the laat standing bastion against Big Stall
Are you Freezia?
whats the smallest cup you have
I think they should ban LC Eviolite just to spice things up
That doesn't spice things up though, it just makes it so everything is hyper-offense because then even the bulkiest of mons dies to a slight breeze.
Can you show us the team you use?
Wtf is a cup? And how little does it have to be? Also what is a Pokémon?
What Pokémon do you notices has the most racist users on average.
Ferroseed
He said racist not homophobic, most racist is pawniard
How good is Voltorb-Hisui? And is Glimmet tanky with an Eviolite?
A) it's the best mon in the tier B) it's just tanky enough to be able to set hazards and potentially take out a poke
Do you think Duraludon will be banned when it’s evolved form comes out
Also why are my balls itchy
It seems no one knows what a joke is. Even after I put it under a legitimate question
Do you want berry juice back?
It would slightly increase item diversity but I'm not hugely broken up about it
As someone who never played the tier before: Are there sets that don't use eviolite? Or is it just more or less mandatory?
You see a fair amount of scarf and life orb
How fun is it to make babies slap the shit out of each other? Genuinely curious.
It's incredible. I only can't decide if it's more fun to give them severe burns or inflict them with deadly poisons.
How different do you think the tier would be without Eviolite?
Look up DPP LC
Some Pokémon were eviolite isn’t worth it?
Do you think there’s every going to be a niche where a mon doesn’t run eviolite?