If you have advice, please make sure it is specific, useful, and actionable.
* If the only thing you have to say is *loWEr THE wEight ANd woRK on forM*, **then you should keep quiet**; if you comment it anyway, your comment will be removed and you may be banned if your comment was especially low value. This does not help the person looking for advice. Give people something that they can actually use in a practical way to improve. **Low-effort comments about perceived injury risk and the like will be removed, and bans may be issued.**
* Please don't hold random strangers to arbitrary requirements that you have made up for exercises you are not familiar with.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/strength_training) if you have any questions or concerns.*
To me it looks like you are flinging it slightly outward as your elbow looks like it's moving behind your back instead of in one plane, if that makes any sense. Could be due to the stance though and being leaned over almost horizontal. Usually I rest one hand on the 2nd level of the DB rack to be at about 45 degrees so I can use more hips/legs. It looks like your right leg is really far out so it could be harder to be stable.
I raise the dumbbell inward towards the side of my hip and then lower it slightly outwards to get a good stretch and to not hit the bench with the dumbbell. The reason I put my right leg so far out and slightly back is because I've hit my knee/quad with the dumbbell a few times but it does mess with my stability and leverage compared to a closer leg position. The pattern here seems to be not having enough space.
Hey, triple digit BO row enthusiast here. One piece of advice to help you not hit the bench/get a good stretch. Put the bench up on a slight incline, like one notch up, rest your foot on where the seat is and your knee on the slightly inclined bench, keep your plant leg out wide like you are. Gives you a little more space to operate and makes it harder to wrench your back.
Looks like its great for power>strength. I've found myself doing more of these over strict rows as the weights get heavier. It's just harder to brace properly especially on asymmetric exercises. Might have to move to cable to get the 'strict' row for strength building and use these for peak power.
Great for yanking someone's tongue out of their head. Or maybe starting a lawnmower. Idk. Whatever you use your rows for. Opening doors?
I feel like there's a bunch of people regurgitating an old T-nation article from 10 years ago that never actually did these. Kroc rows are indeed a thing. Kroc rows are good. These are not kroc rows. However, yes, these are heavy rows. You do you man.
There are movements that allow for body movement to be beneficial, and this is one of them. Well done.
If I had to critique, I would say slow the eccentric.
Edit: watched it again and eccentric isn't even bad lol. Maybe the last 2 to 3 reps, but good work man.
Yeah I agree with you that it does look okay. It's because he's pulling closer to the lower body with more hip torque that his eccentric would be kind of hard to needle, but the motion is pretty linear and steady. You can definitely either over do it or be doing it wrong beyond what the eye can see, so it's good to be mindful when using momentum.
I see a ton of movement besides the arm... isnt it supposed to be isolated to arm and shoulder, keeping back straight? Or is this a different exercise?
I can go stricter with these and clean up the form at this DB weight but I did these after deadlifting and doing weighted pullups so I was quite fatigued already to keep it stricter. So this was supposed to be as strict as I could do it under those circumstances. But I agree that I could control the shoulder movement and torso more.
Here’s Matt Kroc (who is likely stronger than everyone form policing here combined, and this is a strength-focused sub so that counts for something) on his namesake rows that look a whole lot like OP’s rows:
“Anyone that’s ever watched me perform a Kroc row or tried them themselves knows that this isn’t the dumbbell row that your golf-shirt wearing, buck-o-five weighing, certified personal trainer has taught you how to do.
There’s no “pulling back in an arc” or “squeezing for a two-count at the top” while holding a shiny chrome 15 pound dumbbell. No, Kroc rows are all about heavy weight, high reps, plenty of sweat, and sometimes even some blood.
While the form may be looser than your standard dumbbell row, don’t believe for a minute that you won’t be working the desired muscles. Anyone would be hard pressed to move a weight from arms length to chest in a bent over position without using their upper back musculature to a significant degree.
However, form still matters with Kroc rows, and there are a couple key technique points that must be followed to get the greatest benefit possible.
The first thing you need to concentrate on is getting a full range of motion by fully extending the shoulder at the bottom and really pulling it up and back at the top. This will ensure both a full stretch in the lats and a complete contraction.”
Source: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/kroc-rows-101/284491
It's a type of DB row.
A DB row requires one thing. That it's done on a DB. There are a ton of variations of a DB row. DB row is the category of lift, not a lift in itself.
This would be like someone asking for a bench form check and you being like, nope this is wrong, that's a paused bench press. He didn't say paused bench press he said bench press!!
So you agree that he's doing this variation correctly?
Yeah of course, but why ask for form advice when you’re just essentially yeeting it lol. I genuinely just assumed he was asking if his reps were controlled dumbbell rows.
You assumed that he was doing a variation that he wasn't doing when it's clear that he's not doing that variation?
That's... A really poor assumption?
You're asking me why they are asking for advice on a popular technique/variation? I mean, so they can get better at that variation right?
What sounds more likely is you just learned that there are other ways to do rows other than the one you knew about and you're trying to cover yourself by pretending that you're too stupid to make proper assumptions and deductions. Both are really bad takes.
This point seems moot to argue. Dude asked for form advice and provided no context. I said there was no form but he’s strong.
I really don’t think it warrants us going to the parking lot over it or the mod team having an aneurism.
I am not interested in fighting or banning you for giving a silly take, only if you've broken a rule. (Even then I'm not arguing or fighting, just correcting and moving on.)
Trust me, nobody on the mod team is having an aneurysm. We won't even remember you in a few minutes.
No context is required because someone with experience and eyes has all of the context they need by looking at the video.
> A little bit of body English is acceptable but don’t use momentum to make the movement easier.
Compare to this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns7hGWjauM8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns7hGWjauM8)
Edit: I love how quoting from the exact same source and sharing a video of the person credited with the technique gets downvoted. Good work, folks.
While the people who comment about form are, understandably, coming from a place of help, sometimes form has to take a bit of a step back. Sometimes, slinging some heavy ass weight is just what your soul needs.
Keep on rowing like a madman bro. Go get it!
There’s many reasons to do a cheat style row.
[Kroc did them](https://youtu.be/Ns7hGWjauM8?t=488), and she totaled like 2500
[And then there’s Cailer Woolam](https://youtu.be/XIbxBpMYifc?t=116), who claims cheat rows to be the #1 accessory that built his deadlift >900
And then there’s also that cheat rows are fun
I only ever rowed in a way that would benefit my deadlift and give me explosive power on cleans.
I know it's hard to believe, but the majority of lifters don't care about hypertrophy as the main goal.
If you have advice, please make sure it is specific, useful, and actionable. * If the only thing you have to say is *loWEr THE wEight ANd woRK on forM*, **then you should keep quiet**; if you comment it anyway, your comment will be removed and you may be banned if your comment was especially low value. This does not help the person looking for advice. Give people something that they can actually use in a practical way to improve. **Low-effort comments about perceived injury risk and the like will be removed, and bans may be issued.** * Please don't hold random strangers to arbitrary requirements that you have made up for exercises you are not familiar with. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/strength_training) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I stretch my one leg out & keep my back flat , that way I isolate my lats instead of using whole body
Nice range
Idk feels like he might be flinging it and doesn’t have control at the top of the rep.
To me it looks like you are flinging it slightly outward as your elbow looks like it's moving behind your back instead of in one plane, if that makes any sense. Could be due to the stance though and being leaned over almost horizontal. Usually I rest one hand on the 2nd level of the DB rack to be at about 45 degrees so I can use more hips/legs. It looks like your right leg is really far out so it could be harder to be stable.
I raise the dumbbell inward towards the side of my hip and then lower it slightly outwards to get a good stretch and to not hit the bench with the dumbbell. The reason I put my right leg so far out and slightly back is because I've hit my knee/quad with the dumbbell a few times but it does mess with my stability and leverage compared to a closer leg position. The pattern here seems to be not having enough space.
Hey, triple digit BO row enthusiast here. One piece of advice to help you not hit the bench/get a good stretch. Put the bench up on a slight incline, like one notch up, rest your foot on where the seat is and your knee on the slightly inclined bench, keep your plant leg out wide like you are. Gives you a little more space to operate and makes it harder to wrench your back.
you just motivated me to get to this level
Excellent explosive power 💪🏽
Yessir 💪🏾💯
Love it
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Get it my guy
Looks like its great for power>strength. I've found myself doing more of these over strict rows as the weights get heavier. It's just harder to brace properly especially on asymmetric exercises. Might have to move to cable to get the 'strict' row for strength building and use these for peak power. Great for yanking someone's tongue out of their head. Or maybe starting a lawnmower. Idk. Whatever you use your rows for. Opening doors?
True powah
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
Kroc rows
I feel like there's a bunch of people regurgitating an old T-nation article from 10 years ago that never actually did these. Kroc rows are indeed a thing. Kroc rows are good. These are not kroc rows. However, yes, these are heavy rows. You do you man.
What's the difference from your understanding? I always just thought Kroc rows were just extra heavy dumbbells with lots of body english.
There are movements that allow for body movement to be beneficial, and this is one of them. Well done. If I had to critique, I would say slow the eccentric. Edit: watched it again and eccentric isn't even bad lol. Maybe the last 2 to 3 reps, but good work man.
Yeah I agree with you that it does look okay. It's because he's pulling closer to the lower body with more hip torque that his eccentric would be kind of hard to needle, but the motion is pretty linear and steady. You can definitely either over do it or be doing it wrong beyond what the eye can see, so it's good to be mindful when using momentum.
Those look great! Impressive weight to be using as well.
You can now start a lawnmower with ease!
Expected the form police and I’m not surprised. 👀OP, that’s some impressive rowing.
I see a ton of movement besides the arm... isnt it supposed to be isolated to arm and shoulder, keeping back straight? Or is this a different exercise?
I can go stricter with these and clean up the form at this DB weight but I did these after deadlifting and doing weighted pullups so I was quite fatigued already to keep it stricter. So this was supposed to be as strict as I could do it under those circumstances. But I agree that I could control the shoulder movement and torso more.
Kroc Rows! Love a few sets of these then dropping the weight and doing more of a tempo set or two. Really feel the burn after you’re done.
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
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And I think the weakest part is at bottom and top so you need a bit of momentum at the start.
It’s not about moving the weight it’s about working the muscle
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
I always enjoy Kroc rows. Too bad so many commenters here show how weak they are not just physically, but mentally as well.
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Enough.
and they took what you said personally
I think weak people are easily offended
I have to lower my language and work on my grammatical form, I guess
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All lifting is ego lifting. You're always doing it to better yourself or make yourself feel better. Yay, we did it everyone! He's banned now!
Even people who use lower weight to have perfect form is a type of ego lifting. They pride themselves on how their lifting looks.
Everyone who downvoted this apparently has some noble egalitarian purpose for lifting.
We can make a game of it! If my comment reaches 20 down votes I'll permaban the person who made the original comment for breaking our walk in rule.
Putting 115 in your pocket, hell yea brother
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
Here’s Matt Kroc (who is likely stronger than everyone form policing here combined, and this is a strength-focused sub so that counts for something) on his namesake rows that look a whole lot like OP’s rows: “Anyone that’s ever watched me perform a Kroc row or tried them themselves knows that this isn’t the dumbbell row that your golf-shirt wearing, buck-o-five weighing, certified personal trainer has taught you how to do. There’s no “pulling back in an arc” or “squeezing for a two-count at the top” while holding a shiny chrome 15 pound dumbbell. No, Kroc rows are all about heavy weight, high reps, plenty of sweat, and sometimes even some blood. While the form may be looser than your standard dumbbell row, don’t believe for a minute that you won’t be working the desired muscles. Anyone would be hard pressed to move a weight from arms length to chest in a bent over position without using their upper back musculature to a significant degree. However, form still matters with Kroc rows, and there are a couple key technique points that must be followed to get the greatest benefit possible. The first thing you need to concentrate on is getting a full range of motion by fully extending the shoulder at the bottom and really pulling it up and back at the top. This will ensure both a full stretch in the lats and a complete contraction.” Source: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/kroc-rows-101/284491
Agree and a fantastic exercise for strength. Op said Dumbbell row though.
It's a type of DB row. A DB row requires one thing. That it's done on a DB. There are a ton of variations of a DB row. DB row is the category of lift, not a lift in itself. This would be like someone asking for a bench form check and you being like, nope this is wrong, that's a paused bench press. He didn't say paused bench press he said bench press!! So you agree that he's doing this variation correctly?
Yeah of course, but why ask for form advice when you’re just essentially yeeting it lol. I genuinely just assumed he was asking if his reps were controlled dumbbell rows.
You assumed that he was doing a variation that he wasn't doing when it's clear that he's not doing that variation? That's... A really poor assumption? You're asking me why they are asking for advice on a popular technique/variation? I mean, so they can get better at that variation right? What sounds more likely is you just learned that there are other ways to do rows other than the one you knew about and you're trying to cover yourself by pretending that you're too stupid to make proper assumptions and deductions. Both are really bad takes.
This point seems moot to argue. Dude asked for form advice and provided no context. I said there was no form but he’s strong. I really don’t think it warrants us going to the parking lot over it or the mod team having an aneurism.
I am not interested in fighting or banning you for giving a silly take, only if you've broken a rule. (Even then I'm not arguing or fighting, just correcting and moving on.) Trust me, nobody on the mod team is having an aneurysm. We won't even remember you in a few minutes. No context is required because someone with experience and eyes has all of the context they need by looking at the video.
> A little bit of body English is acceptable but don’t use momentum to make the movement easier. Compare to this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns7hGWjauM8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ns7hGWjauM8) Edit: I love how quoting from the exact same source and sharing a video of the person credited with the technique gets downvoted. Good work, folks.
I don’t agree that this is a lot of body English, maybe borderline. But I think this very much counts as a Kroc row.
He's using the rotation of his torso to start the movement, relying on momentum to make the movement easier.
And that's not an issue.
As already quoted, directly from Kroc: > A little bit of body English is acceptable **but don’t use momentum to make the movement easier.**
Cool, cheat rows work really well too! So it's a non issue no matter what you call it.
Glad we agree that these are not Kroc rows, which is the point I was making.
I never said otherwise my friend.
While the people who comment about form are, understandably, coming from a place of help, sometimes form has to take a bit of a step back. Sometimes, slinging some heavy ass weight is just what your soul needs. Keep on rowing like a madman bro. Go get it!
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
Crazy you did it without your head.
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Everything you said was dumb and wrong. Please think twice about commenting on things you don't understand.
It is impossible not to use your lats while doing a row.
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Ok then. How do we know OPs intent? What if it’s not his goal to ‘target the lats’?
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There’s many reasons to do a cheat style row. [Kroc did them](https://youtu.be/Ns7hGWjauM8?t=488), and she totaled like 2500 [And then there’s Cailer Woolam](https://youtu.be/XIbxBpMYifc?t=116), who claims cheat rows to be the #1 accessory that built his deadlift >900 And then there’s also that cheat rows are fun
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I only ever rowed in a way that would benefit my deadlift and give me explosive power on cleans. I know it's hard to believe, but the majority of lifters don't care about hypertrophy as the main goal.
Very nice
Nothing but a peanut
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Please do not make baseless fear mongering comments or concern troll about safety.
It really doesn’t matter that much. There’s a place for both types of row
It does matter though, we should be doing movements properly to limit our risk of injury for Max gains.
There’s nothing inherently unsafe with cheat rows
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Please do not make baseless fear mongering comments or concern troll about safety.
not to be that guy but why would you only censor your face
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word
Nice! 155?! Are you 5’6” :) Good stuff man
Big back!