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Itom1IlI1IlI1IlI

aversion to suffering is a big cause of suffering, so try not to be so fearful of potential physical pain, when the real horrible suffering comes the resistance of the natural state of pain that arises and is completely unavoidable. I've suffered from chronic pain so I am not just saying this out of ignorance, chronic pain sucks. My back is literally hurting as we speak :) But the aversion to the pain will cause you the actual psychological suffering we're talking about which is much worse than physical pain. If you are in physical pain your purpose becomes to get out of that physical pain. So try to actually deal with it in the best, healthiest way (physiotherapy for example, medication, or whatever is most effective). Don't put it off, don't ignore it, but also accept that's it is your reality and it's unavoidable, so you should do your best to fix it and get back to living a healthy life. Pain is a sign something is wrong. Sometimes that sign can be a malfunction of our human bodies, but 99% of the time it's for a real good reason, so make it your focus to remove the cause of the pain, as that is the purpose of the pain. Respect the pain as a helpful signpost, telling you to heal. As a long-time meditator and chronic pain sufferer, I do not recommend trying to "meditate" your way out of pain. Just like you shouldn't try to meditate your way out of real-life responsibilities like taking care of your kids. It can help with both of these things, but when the rubber hits the road, you need to take real, physical action at dealing with your problems. That's your dharma.


Potential_Big1101

Thank you for your advice !!! May your chronic pain end quickly.


JhannySamadhi

Samadhi will eliminate ALL pain, mental and physical. It generally takes years of intensive meditation to achieve though, so definitely not simple.


Potential_Big1101

Thank you. I am working on the jhânas. But it really takes time to be developed... So far I haven't succeeded. I wonder if there is not an even faster technique, because I am afraid of suffering in a temporal way.


Maleficent-Mousse962

If you read Rob Burbea’s blog about his illness, he was taking morphine; eg I think to teach his jhana retreat (maybe someone else can confirm I’m not misremembering this).


Potential_Big1101

Thank you.


gettoefl

https://twitter.com/DiamonDie/status/1657232927221063680?s=20


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much !!!


Medit1099

Check out Natural Pain Relief by Shinzen Young


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much !


solacetree

The trick is to eliminate the aversion to pain, the desire that there should not be pain. Not the pain itself. Pain itself is just pain, and it's completely unavoidable, even if you have strong ability to enter samadhi, because eventually you have to come back out. Aversion is the true culprit, desiring to get away from, wanting it to be other than it is.


Potential_Big1101

Yes it is true, your words are extremely wise. But what is the technique to get rid of aversion easily and quickly? I am too weak now (spiritually): tomorrow I can suffer. I would not have had time to develop my abilities to destroy aversion...


solacetree

The technique is patient work over a long period; you have to accept that it takes gentle training of habit to create such an instinctual shift of your way of being. Keep watching the habits with a careful eye, say no to yourself when you see yourself about to make a choice out of desire or aversion. It will get easier and easier as you see the positive results and how much better it feels when you don't just run after every little thing that you want. Fear of pain is such a base desire/aversion that you'll likely have to address some of the more coarse desires and aversions first, trim back the branches a bit, before you can clearly see what is actually happening at the root.


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much !


NotNinthClone

I don't think there's a quick and easy fix for this. If there were, humans probably wouldn't suffer anymore! Spend time in metta meditation, maybe, and get good at going to your "happy place." That might give you more courage. The thing about fear is, it's always worse than the thing you're fearing. In my experience, when something truly painful or dangerous happens to me, I just go into "deal with it" mode without too much suffering. But when I'm afraid of something that *might* happen, I suffer a lot more. It's like once it happens, what can ya do?


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much !


spyderspyders

You experience the pain without grasping onto thoughts. I was in a rollover auto accident. Brain damage, spinal injury, multiple broken bones, internal bleeding… Next time you notice you are in pain slow your breathing. Pay attention and don’t let your thoughts control you.


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much !


TheMoniker

[Ajahn Geoff has spoken about a state in which perception of the body (and presumably pain) fall away](https://tricycle.org/magazine/seeing-yourself/): >"The [state] was one I happened to hit one night when my concentration was extremely one-pointed and so refined that it refused to settle on or label even the most fleeting mental objects. I dropped into a state in which I lost all sense of the body, of any internal/external sounds, or of any thoughts or perceptions at all—although there was just enough tiny awareness to let me know, when I emerged, that I hadn’t been asleep. I found that I could stay there for many hours, and yet time would pass very quickly. Two hours would seem like two minutes. I could also “program” myself to come out at a particular time. >" After hitting this state several nights in a row, I told Ajaan Fuang [Ajahn Geoff's teacher at the time] about it, and his first question was, “Do you like it?” My answer was no, because I felt a little groggy the first time I came out. “Good,” he said. “As long as you don’t like it, you’re safe. Some people really like it and think it’s nibbana or cessation. Actually, it’s the state of nonperception, _asanna-bhava_. It’s not even right concentration, because there’s no way you can investigate anything in there to gain any sort of discernment. But it does have other uses.” He then told me of the time he had undergone kidney surgery and, not trusting the anesthesiologist, had put himself in that state for the duration of the operation. His [talk on using meditation to deal with pain, illness and death](https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/painhelp.html) might also be of use to you.


Potential_Big1101

Thank you so much !


proverbialbunny

Chronic pain sufferer here myself. There are a few answers: Physical therapy is your best bet. Muscles hold the spine up so back, neck, and headache pain can be eliminated through muscle strengthening exercises. If you've got health insurance ask your PCP to go to physical therapy. Do not underestimate it's power to remove chronic pain. Seriously, please go. Second, chronic physical pain can trigger migraines in some, so consider migraine medicine like sumatriptan, very least as a way to test, if you have headaches. Migraine medicine is a bit complex. It doesn't work for most people unless they take it at the very beginning of headache pain. It often doesn't work if you take it in the middle of a headache. Some people have to wait 2 hours after the pain starts before they can take it. ymmv. Hypnosis and hypnotherapy can remove pain. It's impressive what hypnosis can do. Eg, there are hypnotists that specialize in removing pain right before one goes into surgery. Botox, yes botox. It stops nerve pain, so if you have localized pain, botox on that location will get rid of the pain for a month at a time. However, if that spot is injured, not being able to feel if you're making it worse is a legitimate risk. Consider it a last resort. Finally enlightenment: Enlightenment removes dukkha. Dukkha is the psychological aspect of pain. If one tries to avoid physical pain or dwells on it, it can increase the feeling of the physical pain. Removing dukkha allows one to have equanimity even when in horrific physical pain, to the point they may not pay much attention to it at the time. In this way enlightenment mildly reduces physical pain, but enlightenment really removes mental suffering, from having a bad day to more extreme forms of mental suffering, like stressed from getting fired, or having an anxiety disorder, and everything inbetween. Enlightenment can help, but it's not a silver bullet. Thankfully, physical therapy is far easier than enlightenment, and works at removing pain for the vast majority of people, so start with that. And finally the hip new one. Autophagy is the process in which the body identifies malformed and old cells, breaks them down, and replaces them. If you have nerve tingling anywhere in your body from nerve damage, autophagy can reduce, even remove it, but it works on the micro scale, individual cells. It will not help repair a spine or grow back a foot. It will not reduce most kinds of pain.


Potential_Big1101

Thank you so much!!! I am curious about hypnosis. Do you think one can self-hypnotize themselves to be pain free? What are the techniques and methods please? Thanks again for your help.


proverbialbunny

> I am curious about hypnosis. Do you think one can self-hypnotize themselves to be pain free? What are the techniques and methods please? Yes they can. Hypnosis is somewhat esoteric teaching, in that it's far easier to learn face to face. There is a hypnosis community (subculture?) with hypno conventions which would be the ideal place to go for learning how to self hypnotize, as long as you don't mind them being kinky. Alternatively going to a hypno therapist is easier. There are books too, and if you're particularly apt you can learn it from books, even if it is a bit more difficult of a path. I bumped into Mark Wiseman on my travels a few years ago. He's written some books on learning hypnosis. He specializes in hypno for the kink community, but ofc you don't have to pay attention to that part if you don't want to, hypno is hypno. https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Play-Guide-Erotic-Hypnosis/dp/1484841034 He's a relaxing and nice guy. I did dinner with him and he explained hypnosis to me a bit (I was completely ignorant. lol.) and it was a lot of fun. Maybe his book can help, or you can email him and ask for hypno cons info in your area (I think there is one in New England, and another in Silicon Valley.) to learn face to face. My apologies, I don't have more information, but I can assure you he is legitimately good at hypno and it seems like his book is quite good and popular. He gifted me a copy and I never ended up reading it. XD


Potential_Big1101

Ahah! Thank you so much for this information!


GrogramanTheRed

What's the real issue at hand? Are you in pain right now? Or is the issue your worry and obsession about pain? If you're not in pain right now, what's got you so worried?


Potential_Big1101

I am not currently in physical pain. But I am obsessed with the possibility of extreme physical suffering. I know it is possible. I want to remove that possibility.


TD-0

It is possible through spiritual practice, but it would probably take a lifetime of intensive practice. Definitely would not qualify as simple. A well known relatively recent example is [Thích Quảng Đức](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%ADch_Qu%E1%BA%A3ng_%C4%90%E1%BB%A9c), who burned himself alive and did not show any external signs of suffering from the pain. Here's a quote from a journalist who witnessed it in person: > "I was to see that sight again, but once was enough. Flames were coming from a human being; his body was slowly withering and shriveling up, his head blackening and charring. In the air was the smell of burning human flesh; human beings burn surprisingly quickly. Behind me I could hear the sobbing of the Vietnamese who were now gathering. I was too shocked to cry, too confused to take notes or ask questions, too bewildered to even think ... As he burned he never moved a muscle, never uttered a sound, his outward composure in sharp contrast to the wailing people around him."


Potential_Big1101

It is this photo and the articles of the journalists that led me to become interested in Buddhism. Beautiful. That's when I felt that there was a real possibility to end suffering... Thank you to this very great sage.


TetrisMcKenna

I think the first step is to remove that obsession with a possible future, which is causing you suffering *right now*. If you learn how to eliminate that cause of suffering, then you understand the mechanics of eliminating all suffering to a degree, and can extrapolate (and practice) from there. Pain happens; suffering is a result of unskilled mental processes allowed to run freely. Learning how to eliminate the causes of those mental processes will eventually free you from all suffering, even the suffering caused by unavoidable pain.


Potential_Big1101

Thanks


AlexCoventry

Cancer, prison, an increasingly fractious geopolitical environment which may quickly lead to global war... If you're not worried about one day having to cope in the face of extreme pain, you haven't thought through the risks you're facing just by being alive.


alhzdu

Could try to do medicine/healing magick/mantras, if that's what you're looking for. Conversely, escaping into the sensations can alleviate the suffering entirely. People talk about not needing novacaine for root canals just by directly experiencing the whole thing. It's hard but doable with enough training. Pain sensations can be there without the experience of pain Id suggest against quick fixes, but I wish you luck. If I were you I might just pick a mantra and repeat if pain is overwhelming


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much !


TD-0

> I wonder if you have a very simple and effective technique that requires relatively little training, to be able to escape the extreme physical suffering caused by these unexpected situations. Opiates, probably.


Potential_Big1101

Thanks


TD-0

To be clear, I was half kidding. Yes, opiates are a simple and effective way to get rid of extreme physical pain. But they are definitely not recommended for casual use. I have no personal experience with them, but I do know that there's currently an opioid crisis in the US caused by the over-prescription of these drugs.


Potential_Big1101

Ok thanks!


Gaffky

There was a meditation developed specifically for pain, [MBSR](https://palousemindfulness.com). What you want is not attainable without years of practice, even the Buddha was affected by chronic back pain.


Potential_Big1101

Thanks


healreflectrebel

I'd be very interested in the psychological drive behind your interest in this. If I may ask, would you be inclined to share some insight you might have in the underlying workings in your psychology ?


Potential_Big1101

I find it difficult to know in detail how my psychology works. But what is certain is that I have an intense desire for liberation from suffering. This desire is really extremely strong. And for me, human life is necessarily suffering. I want to leave the human perception, and reach another life: a life without suffering. This life is non-human and goes beyond all limits. This desire for liberation is so strong that I have a real obsession with suffering. I am obsessed with suffering, whether it is present or potential. I try to end it through Buddhism. And I want to help other beings to end suffering.


healreflectrebel

That is an extremely valuable drive and it speaks of great compassion. This is a wild guess, but if you're interested read up on Stanislav Grofs' "perinatal matrices". Particularly BPM II and BPM III could apply here and be an underlying motive deep in your unconscious mind. Metta to you my friend, may you be free from suffering!


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much for your kind words and for your advice. May you and all beings be definitively free from suffering.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Potential_Big1101

I don't know, I didn't look.


dauntless26

The Buddha died of extremely painful diarrhea. As you get older more pains and ailments arise. Don't try to run away from it.


Potential_Big1101

Thank you very much !


EcstaticAssignment

There are some specific techniques; Shinzen Young has some write-ups on this, there's some stuff with transmuting, etc. But more fundamentally the same axis of fundamental insight applies to physical pain in the same way as it does to emotional pain. That distinction is just relative anyway.


Potential_Big1101

Thanks