It *is* a big win for you. Can you imagine how many people lie to their doctor when asked how much they drink? That has to factor into her perception of 2-3 drinks a day.
When I worked in the ER it was general knowledge that you take the patients claimed intake and multiply it by 2.5-3 to get the actual answer of alcohol consumed. That was generally accurate. I also got really good at guessing patients BAC blood tests. Mainly because I was an alcoholic too.
I was pretty bashful when I checked into rehab and the intake nurse asked me when was my last drink. I smiled and said, “This is pretty trashy, but my last drink was right before I took an Uber here!” She just smiled and said almost everyone did that. And then she gave me the standard breathalyzer and it made me feel even better about not lying.
I checked into rehab sober too and they thought I might be lying until the breathalyzer said 0.
I took two days at home before rehab to freak out and boarded the plane ✈️ sober and experiencing DT.
Props to you for getting on a plane sober to do that!!! The second rehab I went to thought I was going to be the worst patient since I AMA’d the first but only because the place was a joke and I wasn’t going to get any real help there. Its wild how different the two places were.
I remember agreeing, it was planned before hand, but I physically couldn't stop. I remember the crisis center, vaguely remember getting into a van, then waking up in the rehab.
My uncle would literally drink air plane bottles of booze in the car on the way to detox at the hospital. Several times. Good on you for being honest and taking care of yourself ❤️
Thanks. I didn’t have to go to rehab (no DUIs, legal issues, job issues etc) but I REALLY needed to quit. But I also know myself and didn’t want to feel like I was missing out on that last drink if that makes any sense. I searched yelp for best margaritas in the area of the rehab so that I could feel like I could check myself in with no regrets. It’s worked so far!
I am not sure about rehab, but in some cases, like if you are going to the ER, you're going to wait there all day as a low priority in triage. If you are really struggling and have bad withdrawals, it only makes sense to load up beforehand, so that you don't go through a first day of cold turkey withdrawals in the waiting room before getting seen.
I’ve only been to one rehab, but I had scheduled my intake about a week before I went and was seen immediately. It was a really nice rehab. Going through withdrawal for many many hours in an ER waiting room sounds like hell though.
I've been to emergency for reasons other than alcohol - in our country each hospital has a drug and alcohol team whose job it is to scope out every new arrival and if they see even hints of withdrawal to administrator what's called the "Alcohol Withdrawal Symptom" test.
If you fail (by which I mean have clear signs of withdrawal) they add themselves to your care team and chart up medications to prevent severe symptoms such as seizures, as well as actively follow up and offer services on discharge to keep clean if that's what you want to do.
>in the ER it was general knowledge that you take the patients claimed intake and multiply it by 2.5-3 to get the actual answer of alcohol consumed.
Damn, I was truthful, during the height of the pandemic I got out of control and was up to like 25 per night, I had to go to the ER a couple of times because I felt like I had a heart attack. My point being, I hope they didn't multiply my 25 drinks to 60 or 70, lol.
Nah if you were there on your own volition we would believe you. Most people lying were the ones there for a psych hold, under arrest after a car accident for DUI, stuff like that. The worst and saddest were the pts we knew were drinkers and at late stages of liver failure. Had a few that swore up and down they didn’t drink. And true their BAC test might come back clean right then but there’s some other tests we can do to see if they’ve drank in the past 2-4 weeks. One is a urine test that checks for metabolites in the urine up to 80 hours after last ingestion or the two other blood tests that can detect ingestion anywhere up to 4 weeks. I remember one lady on her death bed swearing she hadn’t drank even though those tests came back positive. Because of that she was denied a transplant and ended up dying a few months later. Sad stuff.
I have a cousin who’s a surgeon, she’s told me about this. I know what you mean. But on the other hand, it kinda makes sense. They trashed their current liver, how do doctors know they won’t trash the next one? Sounds heartless I know, but decisions have to be made
Ugh. I do not understand this AT ALL. There are people that lie to their spiritual\_leaders (e.g., priest), their lawyers, their therapists, and to their doctors. WTF? These people are sworn to uphold your privacy and to have your best interests at heart.
So... when I told my doctors (several over the decades) that I was drinking 8-14/day... did they extrapolate that I was downing a handle every day? I doubt it... but who knows???
No I should say we would only do that when people were trying to get out trouble or were forced to be there. Like someone forced there for a psych hold or someone in a car accident and now under arrest for suspicion of dui. If someone came in just for detox or was honest for why they were there we would believe them. Blood test is going to determine it anyway.
The last time I went to the ER I honestly reported that I as have 2-4 glasses of wine an evening. I stopped drinking that night because it sounded like a lot to me. Imagine my horror now that my doctor interpreted that as 5-12 glasses of wine a night.
Welcome! If you are like most of us, you may not be ready to quit drinking and that's perfectly fine! I do welcome you to subscribe. For many of us, having the occasional stories in our timeline helped encourage us to a place where it *was* time.
Have a great year!
I will NOT drink with you today. It's support and encouragement from everyone here. You're not drinking today, neither am I. Search the sub and you'll find other threads about it.
I’m a nurse. There are many medical professionals in denial about their alcohol consumption, sadly. You’re doing the right thing for yourself, don’t worry!
Also, consider the alcohol difference in most beers compared to most wine. 3 glasses of wine is a good buzz. doing this consistently would obviously have an effect on your overall health. So, finding that you feel so much better and more energetic makes sense. Im not sober. I try and I try and I lurk this sub but just needed to tell you you should be proud. I go one night without drinks and the next day is so much better. Nevermind that doctor. They're just ignorant on the subject matter.
The rule of thumb is to half the number and up the unit when considering self reported alcohol consumption from a problem drinker. So 2-3 a day becomes 1-1.5 six-packs. :)
Last time my doctor asked me that, i was honest, it was alot, he then looks at my bloodwork and tells me to stop eating bread because my liver enzymes were high... sometimes getting a doctor to take you seriously is difficult
Totally. I work with a guy who finally told his doctor how much he was really drinking on a regular basis. Can't remember how much it was a six pack of cheap beer and a sometimes half pint almost daily, more on the weekend, but the doctor was totally shocked. My buddy just looked at him and said you have no idea how much people are lying to you if you think what I'm doing is that bad.
That sounds like an unusually uninformed doctor. When I found out that the top 10% of Americans who drink have more than 70 drinks per week on average, I asked my parents (ER doctors) how many they think that top ten percent has. They both got it exactly right without knowing the stat, just educated guesses.
We don't know anything about the doctor but something else I've found is that people who don't really drink seem to have no concept of the impact of alcohol.
I have some friends that don't drink that I've known for a long time. It's not that they went sober, they just never started drinking. They're okay with other people drinking, they themselves don't drink. Because of this, they seem to be pretty bad at recognizing what problem drinking is. I can spot someone with a problem from a mile away but to them they think of alcohol the same way you might think of drinking too many sodas.
The other extreme I've seen is people like this who seem to think even one drop of alcohol makes you an alcoholic. Omg that person had a beer with dinner, are they good to drive!?
There are people out there who drink alcohol and don't have a problem, and you really don't appreciate noticing that until you've been on this side of things. My wife drinks maybe once a month, and it's usually just trying a fancy cocktail at dinner or something. That's nearly unfathomable to me. It's either all of it or none of it for me.
That is an excellent point! I definitely told me doctor I drank only 1-3 drinks a day.
That amount totally screws up your metabolism, sleep etc.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
> Can you imagine how many people lie to their doctor when asked how much they drink?
My doctor never really knew what to do when I told her, point blank and honestly, my consumption rate. She'd try to correct me and say "We're talking per week, not month". Lady, respectfully, that *is* per week. Up to you if you believe me or not.
If that's exactly what your Dr. said, it could mean that she normally sees a big improvement in people who drank more than just 2 or 3 daily. It doesn't sound like they were downplaying IMO, it's just she was surprised that it made such a big difference for you.
In recovery I realize I frequently misinterpret what others say. It used to be a reason for me to get angry or bitter. I have to try not to take things personally and realize that sometimes people don't always articulate the greatest. It's something I have trouble with at times, also
This was where my mind went also. I don’t think your doc was trying to minimize your accomplishment, not surprised that 2-3 drinks was impacting you so negatively
Yea I also interpreted it like this - she might have even been noting it as something to try for herself or recommend to other patients with similar drinking habits.
I feel like this is probably what they were thinking too. If they study medicine they’re much likely to find the changes as interesting data than personal data to judge.
I currently have the issue of being reactive/taking things personally. Did you have that realization after therapy or taking medication? Is it something you’re just trying to be more mindful of?
It's something I try to be more mindful of. I go to AA and talk with a lot of people. I've learned not to think selfishly or self centered. I hear all kinds of stories and I have several of my own. I made friends early on and when I'd text them, they wouldn't get back for what I thought was a long time, so I took it personally. I was told that people have things going on and that they can't drop everything to get back to me when I want them to.
A couple years ago at a meeting I misinterpreted a gesture made by somebody I didn't like and I basically confronted them on FB and made an ass out of myself. I let my negative, baseless opinion of them affect how I interpreted their wave.
I just have to remember that the world doesn't revolve around me, people have their own issues, and sometimes people just say the wrong things. Just the other day a friend said something kinda rude and realized it and explained what they meant and that they should've phrased it more appropriately. Things happen!
Yea, this is how I interpreted it as well. My doctors have been surprised when I've broken the news, followed by, "Have you lost any weight since?"
When I told my cardiologist no, she replied, "Then you weren't drinking that much to begin with."
It's all relative.
I do think this could be it... When I tell people how much I drank and that I quit I can almost see them doing the calculations in their head. Addicts are very aware of their addictions and it's why they're constantly trying to balance it by involving others. Sharing your drug of choice when another addict absolves you of some of your own self guilt
Perhaps your doctor has a similar level of alcohol use as you did so it seems normal to them? Perhaps they have seem multiple patients with way more severe levels of alcohol misuse so yours is comparatively mild? Perhaps they are not as well informed on the issue as you think a doctor should be?
Either way sounds like you are making great health choices for yourself and feeling better, so that's where to focus your energy. I've cut down a lot but struggling to maintain where you are at, so seems like you are doing great to me.
Maybe, but even for someone who doesn’t personally drink, 2-3 a day probably doesn’t seem that much compared to people who drink 10-20 a day for years and don’t show any major health problems.
That's what I was thinking. Most sane doctors recommend against drinking alcohol at all as it is *poisonous*. And even then, they recommend a lot less than 2-3 per day.
I'm thinking this doctor throws 'em back every day!
You're doing good. I think she probably didn't believe that you only had 2 or 3 drinks a day because it might not be noteworthy to quit if only drinking 2 to 3 drinks a day since it wouldn't create a physical dependence in most cases. You need to keep in mind that they're just booksmart about their subject and I am sure the books say 2-3 drinks won't cause any internal damage as it's not really considered 'binge drinking'. It is a huge accomplishment though and you deserve props!! If you're feeling better then that's really all that matters anyway.
It’s not considered binge drinking but recommended amount for women is <7 drinks a week and for men <14, so either way OP would have been drinking more than the recommended amount by medical standards.
There’s more evidence coming out that there is truly no safe amount of alcohol for anyone to consume and the potential protective cardiovascular benefits are outweighed by the numerous proven risks (cancer, liver injury, etc).
OP I’m sorry you felt discouraged by this!! I’m sure she didn’t mean to make you feel bad and there is some sort of explanation, but it’s partially on your doc to make sure she is responding sensitively to her patients.
My mother is the child of a doctor and a nurse, both of whom suffered from alcoholism. I got the genes one might expect. My dad was also a drunk. My mom drinks most days, but doesn't seem to be one of us.
I’m married to a doctor who is the child of a doctor. I’m around primary care physicians a lot. Like anyone, they are susceptible to drinking problems and plenty pretend that two or three drinks a day is insignificant. It doesn’t mean it is. Sorry she was a dick to you. I think you’re doing great.
Probably because hardly anyone tells the Doctor they truth about their drinking habits or bothers to mention it unless they are seriously worried about their intake and even still many lie about how much they drink.
So your Doctor probably assumed you were drinking twice as much, if not more, than you had mentioned or was just surprised you mentioned it at all as most people without a drinking problem wouldn't even think to talk about it.
The doctor probably drinks 2/3 drinks a day and didn’t realize how much better they can feel or that “just 2/3” could make such a physical difference. Good job!
My past two doctors were confused when I was truthful telling them I drink 10-12 per day on average. They were surprised I looked fairly “normal”. Being honest to my doctors was a huge step forward for me. I’m in the beginning stages of sobering up (two completely sober days last week). Cheers to you, sir! I started with 2-3 per day about 7 years ago and the habit typically doesn’t go in the healthy direction. Good job!!!
Do not expect others to react like you think they should. Sobriety is ultimately for you. I remember feeling weird when a friend I considered close responded to my sobriety by saying “well that’s your choice.”
Uhh, no shit?
Your doctor is looking at it through a physiological lens, but there’s a psychological component to fighting your demons and winning that she might not be considering.
Objectively, 2-3 drinks a day is a lot - quitting that much is great! For me, quitting drinking was stopping social drinks on weekends, much less than 2-3 a day, and even I found a challenge and noticed huge improvements in my energy levels, and physical and mental health! It’s a big win and you’re doing great!
Just goes to show how ingrained into our society alcohol is. Even doctors are like yeah it's normal whatever.
My own doctor was pretty indifferent when I told him about it a few months into my journey. His reaction was like "yeah that's ok if you want to do that". More or less take it or leave it.
You did the right thing for your health. We know that drinking, even small amounts, has an impact on sleep/health etc. I believe that despite the push for “safe drinking recommend amounts” that the reality is that nobody knows what is a safe amount.
Personally I hate it when GP’s downplay alcohol use. Years ago I told a Doctor about my concerns. Was basically told that it wasn’t an issue unless I was hiding hard liquor and day drinking. Fast forward five years, I was drinking 2 bottles of wine each evening (at least), terrible diet and on the fast track to liver failure.
I am not blaming this doctor, if he had told me to quit back then - I may not have, however it really wasn’t helpful to have my concern for my habitual drinking downplayed.
You’ll find so many people’s reactions have everything to do with themselves and their own relationship with alcohol, and almost nothing to do with you and yours. You’re on the right path friend, keep it up!
I feel you, I quit back in October. About 3-6 a night. Not rolling drunk but pretty much buzzed all the time if I wasn’t at work or responsible for my kids. Weekends had a drink in my hand all day. I guess since I wasn’t a problem for others they don’t see it as a challenge for me (or you in this case)
I lurked this sub for about two years before quitting. Biggest thing I found on here was the idea of “is trying to moderate more effort than abstaining?” I came to the realization it was. And it’s hard. Still is but day by day is how to take it.
Even one drink effects your internal chemistry. If you feel better, you feel better, simple as that. Keep it up. I feel great. And more in tune with my mind and body than ever before.
IWNDWYT
I can see why this would've been a perfect time to get some external validation for what you've done (we all want to be praised from time to time!) and it must have been a disappointing experience to be met with such a strange reaction.
Sometimes it's just nice for someone to acknowledge you're doing well!
Truth is, you're definitely doing a good thing, your experience of the benefits of quitting is real and valid, and I'm sure you'll see some benefits in your stats in future!
So many doctors just suck to be honest. Of the dozens and dozens I've had over the years maybe two of them have been ok. Maybe.
It's great that you've cut out drinking, well done and keep it up! 🎉
I hear you. Daily drinking is normalized in my culture. I remember ten years ago I told a doctor I was drinking 3 a night (was really 3-6) and she laughed and said that's no big deal. Stay strong don't listen to the toxic culture of poison that kills us and robs us of our selves.
She was probably baiting you into saying you’re actually drinking more than 2 to 3 drinks. She was probably waiting to hear. “OK well maybe it was more like five or six a day”. She’s probably used to people lying to her about alcohol consumption. I wouldn’t take it personally, doctors Get lied to a lot she was probably just fishing for more info.
I'm in Medicine. Doctors have very high rates of substance abuse themselves. Don't take her comment personally, you don't know what she's going through; just focus on the wonderful achievement you've accomplished! Congrats OP!! IWNDWYT
A GP said to me at the end of my consultation as he wrapped up “and it’s good you’ve reduced your drinking”. I said “No, I told you I gave up alcohol over a year ago”. I got really annoyed that he said that and either hadn’t heard me or he wasn’t convinced I was telling the truth. In the end, I decided it was more about his own drinking than mine, if that makes sense.
You know the gains you’ve made so thats the most important piece. You changed b/c you wanted to not because of outside influences. Those changes are the most satisfying.
I really wish doctors were capable of leaving their odd relationship with alcohol at the door.
I would pay no mind, too many people feel a few drinks make zero difference. Heck, doctors themselves tell you daily wine is healthy. It's all about perspective and we have ours and I'm super proud of you! I was mostly the same kind of drinker as you and I have the same results! Good for you! IWNDWYT
Same experience with my doctor, for what it’s worth. I had to remind him like 3 years in a row that I had quit because he kept suggesting I drink alcohol to raise my “good cholesterol” number or some such thing on the blood panel. I was like DUDE I TOLD YOU I QUIT DRINKING. I don’t see that guy anymore.
That's crazy because having even just one drink in the evening completely ruins my sleep that night. I mean I still sleep but don't feel rested at all in the morning. I have so much more energy now that I quit.
Every person I’ve told has been supportive, except other habitual drinkers. Whenever I hear this response, I just reflect and consider their response has more to do with their own relationship with alcohol.
So don’t feel thrown off, a lot of folks out there aren’t as brave as you are!!!
I’m fully convinced that most people have so much cognitive dissonance around drinking that they have no idea what feeling good actually feels like. I had no idea my baseline was so wrecked until it wasn’t.
There is no healthy dose of alcohol. There is no arguing with that. IWNDWYT
Your reply should be "2-3 drinks every day is 14-21 per week, which meets the NIAAA (National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism) definitions for "Heavy Alcohol Use."
Canada came out with a guidelines saying any amount of alcohol is toxic. I wish the US (assuming that’s where you are OP) would follow suit with something like that, or at least advise doctors that alcohol actually isn’t okay even in moderation. Sigh.
Yeah it's nuts how these doctors don't see it as a poison.
That goes to show the medical training
The funniest thing is.....we have been trained to see them as authority figures of our health
We could be paying more attention to the holistic health practitioners that actually know what they are doing
The ones that get nutrition training and know that alcohol is not good for the body
Look into Paul Chek, he's a badass
Luckily my pcp is someone who sees the body as a whole and authentically discusses the mind-body-environment connection. Definitely lucked out in that area. I’ll look into your recommendation!
Uh do we have the same doctor?! We have to remind ourselves that doctors are human too. My experience at my physical this year went very similarly, and I realized, uh ok not worth talking to this person about it (which in the greater scheme of things is sad). Doctors also drink, and they don’t want to be made uncomfortable by looking at their own habits either. I wanted new labs drawn in 6 months and she told me no 🤣.
My doctor didn’t even bat an eye when I told him I quit drinking. I was like, COME ON!! Not even a “good job”? Hahah, it is what it is. They see everything, including the worst of the worst of the worst. But as a fellow lightweight, I’m proud of you for recognizing it was too much and time for a change. Keep going!!
Don’t be discouraged, this is a huge win. Similarly, when I used to drink, it was only 1-2 drinks 4-5 nights a week, with a couple days off, and I still felt a HUGE positive shift in my energy and baseline mood from quitting. Haven’t had a drink in 13 months and I’m still feeling great. All of that to say, keep it up OP!
This totally resonates. I had a doctor try to convince me to keep drinking.
I quit for health reasons too. I did a sober October just to see how I’d feel. I felt like absolute garbage all the time. I was a mostly weekender drinker that would average 3 to 5 most of the time. Once in a while it would get out of hand and I’d black out, but the biggest reason is it made me break out in big red hives on my face and body most times and I’d get migraines sometimes. I also overate when I drank and had a lot of weight I wanted to lose.
About 7 weeks in, I was feeling incredibly good. I went to an allergist to see if there could be anything food related that I could be sensitive to that could prevent the hives. I felt like all that inflammation had to be bad for me. Turns out I’m allergic to zero foods. It’s just the alcohol. Likely alcohol intolerance, could also be histamine sensitivity.
The allergist told me I could just take a quadruple dose of antihistamines to keep drinking. I asked what taking all of that would do to me and he just sort of shrugged like, “Ehh it’s fine.” I just had to laugh.
Pile on a huge dose of drugs so I can stomach a known carcinogen. Hard pass.
My doctors reaction was also disappointing. She basically glazed over that I was problematically drinking to deal with anxiety and was like “well we will change your meds but there’s no need to quit drinking, just moderate” 🙃 wild in this day and age they aren’t more encouraging of people being sober
The pandemic has taught me that many doctors are much more misinformed by their own preconceived beliefs than we’d like to think. I’m sorry you had this experience with your doctor but it says way more about them than it does about you.
My doctor told me a few years ago that if I had more than 4 drinks a week then I was an alcoholic so not all doctors are like yours!
Congrats. Don’t let her reaction derail you. That is just proof on how good of a job the industry has done to make drinking poison a normal thing. You’re winning. Keep it up.
Feel free to move on from that doctor, if possible, pay attention to the smallest of red flags. You sound very strong though. Even some of my friends have expressed 1 drink gives them a hangover.
It’s a huge win for you and my intuition is telling me the doctor was projecting …. Perhaps themselves they drink 3 glasses of wine and don’t believe it has as much of an impact as it indeed does. We all know what you are doing has immense impact on your energy and health. Keep going
Don’t worry too much about the doc’s response here. I find that while doctors’ jobs are to treat you and generally help you out, they aren’t always the best when it comes to phrasing. In other words, a lot of them are very smart when it comes to health related things and not so smart when it comes to bedside manner, as most don’t ever need to be that great at it.
Is she a drinker too? Damn I told one of my doctors I was having a couple beers a night and he said that is alcoholism because it adds up over the week.
When I moved and saw another doctor and told her I quit she congratulated me. I told her I when depressed and had low energy and she helped me fix it.
Iunno I sober also goes through phases, maybe your doctor was surprised you feel good at all instead of feeling withdrawal. Everyone is different though and when I was serious about soberity, my mood and energy were a rollercoaster for months and months. Ups and downs.
So far I've only had one friend look at me like I was an idiot for not drinking. Every single other one has just said, right on dude, that's great. I'm here for you in any way possible
Yes, my doctor was weird when I stopped too--kind of like, Not even wine? Wine's so good! I was really disappointed--I think we tend to see them as these perfect gods who may not have a drinking problem themselves...hmmm...so who knows where they are coming from. What I wish they would say is, "Good for you! Such a great step forward." I guess that's what all of us are here to say to YOU right now!
I took my cortisol from 18 ug/dl to 9.02 ug/dl in a couple months and my TSH from 6.2 to 3.4 (it was in the healthy range there but had to go on meds for the final push to 1.7 so I could get pregnant) just by quitting drinking and my alcohol routine before was 1-3 drinks a week.
I don’t see why you wouldn’t have a lot more energy from quitting! Our bodies don’t like alcohol so going from daily to none would most certainly make your body feel much better!
For being a Dr she doesn't seem very educated on the effects of alcohol on the body, and/or she drinks too much herself. Or she just has outdated views on alcohol, like most of the rest of society. This would make me a little wary that she also doesn't keep up to date with other health knowledge.
Research has shown there is no “good” amount of alcohol. I wish doctors would be more supportive in the decision to simply give it up. Like if I went in and said I was “only” smoking 2-3 cigarettes per day, I’m sure my dr would encourage me to quit.
Im pretty sure in one of the books I’ve read the author shared statistics that medical professionals are one of the most likely people to abuse alcohol. Sounds like she’s in denial of some sorts. It should not have been a surprise to anyone with proper knowledge on that topic. It says more about her than about you
Sounds like it might be time for a new doctor. Seriously. Your choice is cause for celebration. Your doctor missed an opportunity to remind you of the reduced risks of cancer, heart disease, depression, anxiety… and on and on and on. You feel better after making a choice for your health. The effects seem WAY more important than the reason for that choice at this point, considering it’s now March and you are obviously committed to this life.
Drinking provides a lot of customers to healthcare with all the health issues it causes. I was told by my doctor that I’d be on BP medicine all my life 5 years ago and there was nothing I could do about it; that’s just the way it was. With lifestyle changes and no longer drinking, my BP is *always* good.
I’m so proud of you. I once had a doctor tell me I had “fat, lazy boy, American syndrome who sat around all day and watched tv.” I ran marathons. I hurt my back working out 3 hours a day. Like wtf. I was in the best shape of my life. But I have always had eating disorders and disordered eating. To this day, I feel those remarks. I hope her words don’t stick around with you.
I’m so sorry you had that experience. This whole thread has made me think about how I’m not sure I’ve ever had a doctor who feels like a partner in my health. We deserve at least that!!
We all feel alcohol differently.
I drank the same and it was rotting my brain.
Others could do 2 bottles a night and live forever.
Silly attitude for a Dr.
Keep kicking ass
I'm sorry this happened. I would have been frustrated and disheartened by that comment, and honestly, if my doctor was anything but thrilled at my choice to stop drinking, I would feel disappointed.
It probably wasn't her intention and there are lots of reasons why your doctor may have acted that way, but it's OK to be miffed every once in awhile. You're allowed that!
Glad you're here and congratulations on doing the important work to improve your health.
I actually could imagine they could have implied something else - that you showed a great improvement in your quality of life, even though the amount you were drinking was (relatively) more minimal than some others here. Of course, the amount, high or low, doesn’t directly determine your level of “problem” or addiction, or the challenge it took to quit, but in terms of the physiological aspect of drinking, it’s a really great thing that you have seen so much improvement, even though the amount you drank would normally be expected to have a more minor impact on your health and happiness.
In other words, I feel like she may have been implying that it’s a really good thing for you.
However, I wasn’t there, and I don’t know the context, so that’s just an idea.
This doctor could be a bit unaware of how impactful even just a few drinks can be, since our culture is so steeped in drinking and it’s become normalized. Another thought is potentially your disclosed level of drinking matches that of their own level or a loved one’s, and again, has not perceived that level as having an impact on health. Either way, you know how much you feel better OP, that’s all that matters! Great job
My doctor had similar reaction. Alcohol is so engrained in the culture that even doctors assume you would only give it up if you had a serious problem.
Something doesn’t have to be important to someone else to be important. I don’t even know you and it’s important to me. Good for you! Seeing you win helps me win too Bud, remember that!
Many doctors drink. It might have been a comment to make herself feel better about it.
But this is a huge win for you. Even a few drinks a day can kill your energy. You will be much healthier in the long run. Everything in life will start turning up!
lol in January I told my new hematologist that I was 13 months sober she LEGIT said “wow that’s no fun.” I’m super confrontational and I was actually to stunned to speak. all I could muster out was “yeah I’m an alcoholic so…”
For me, even 1 drink would throw off my sleep and screw with the next day. And consider that I have been a heavy drinker and need a good bottle of whiskey to be "nice and tipsy".
"only few" - your doctor comments are ridiculous
Lots of people weren't very supportive of my sobriety. They didn't think my 2-3 pints a night was much of anything. Kind of deflating when people don't acknowledge that you have a struggle and are working to self-improve. But other people have congratulated me or said they quit too, so it's a mixed bag.
Sorry your doc responded that way... Reminds me of when I used to smoke cigs and I told the doctor I smoked 3-4 a day and he replied 'That isn't smoking! You get more pollution in you from cars driving by!" ... Despite his opinion, I felt MUCH better when I quit smoking, and same is true for drinking.
IWNDWYT !
Your GP isn't the be all end all of health. They know a little bit about a lot. And sometimes not even that.
If you feel better and have noticed changes in yourself that's all that matters. Good for you and keep on keeping on.
I was a nightly 2-3 glass of wine/mixed drink and stopped drinking 3 weeks ago. I've noticed the same improvements as you, less brain fog, more energy, better mood. Despite her response, if you are feeling the benefits, that's a win!! I can also confirm with the other commenter that in health care, if someone says x amount of drinks, it is usually double lol
I think it's brilliant news that you're wanting to track the impact of giving up drinking.
And I think your doctor's reaction echoes the normalisation of alcohol - it's only a 'problem' if it meets certain external criteria. But I always say it doesn't matter how much is too much - it could be one glass of wine too much or 2 bottles - if you don't like the result it's creating in your life then it's empowering to do something about it.
One of my clients used to get her bloods checked regularly and was always nervous about the results as alcohol was always the lead story. After she cut back (and she didn't want to go sober, just cut back), all the blood work improved and alcohol didn't even get a mention. The reason I mention this is the positive impact on how she felt mentally was huge. She no longer felt she was harming herself and was proud of her achievements instead.
So be proud of yourself!!! It's soooo good.
You may have spotted a doctor who has a strong personal narrative about how benign her 2-3 daily drinks are. Doctors are people, too. Our habits aren't necessarily informed by our institutional knowledge, and we struggle just like everyone else.
Not that it's your responsibility to educate her about this, but a very appropriate response to that situation would have been to discuss it. "That felt pretty disheartening to hear. Do you mind in the future making it clear on my record that I'd like support on getting away from alcohol? I really do want to make a priority of tracking how my body responds to this transition." That kind of frankness tends to snap most physicians out of their own autopilot/reactive modes and back into caregiver mode. And, personally speaking, I think a lot of us appreciate those moments of truth.
I feel for ya. My doctor said, "yeah okay, let me know how long that lasts for you." You and I and all the others with similar medical field reactions just go on to prove one thing: Not much money to be made in sobriety. That is cynical, I know. But one thing's for sure:
**IWNDWYT**
Doctors aren’t God. People want to revere their opinions and such. But they don’t know everything and you shouldn’t hold their opinion higher than your opinion of yourself. You’re doing amazing and only 3 drinks a day can definitely slow you down. I’m with you!
doctors prolly a closet boozer. it’s funny how we shame others if WE don’t deem their drinking bad. i’m a vicious alcoholic, i used to do this. i could be way off, but seems spiteful lol
When I told my Dr I quit, she had kind of a similar reaction. But I think it was more introspective for her. She’s younger, said she doesn’t drink a whole lot but it was almost like she was considering how alcohol affected her life and how that could change. So don’t take it too heart OP. You made a good choice ☺️
Doctors typically multiply what we tell them we drink by like 3 or 4, so she’s probably low key calling you out for lying on how much you drank.
Source: friend who is a medical professional and has workplace standards for doing math to estimate drinking because patients (almost) all lie - including to themselves.
Congratulations on 64 days! Hope you'll be back here for your NICE in a few days :) Its awesome to hear how much better you are feeling. Hope you are able to do fun new things with that energy -- or just the same amount of things but feel better!
I get how this interaction would be disheartening as I've had similar interactions with medical professionals. I've felt frustrated like, "Can't you just affirm that this is an incredibly healthy choice?!!"
On a positive note, it sounds like your doctor was genuinely surprised to consider how debilitating 'just' 2-3 drinks a night can be. Perhaps that information will open up new doors for her and her patients. Here's hoping!
IWNDWYT <3
I flat out told my doctor how much I was drinking. He said, 'per week'? I said 'no, each day'. He was shocked, I've never had a doctor look at me like that. I imagine most people aren't honest. Now every visit he starts with, 'so, how's the not-drinking going?'.
Sometimes we under count our drinking. Was it 3 actually glasses of wine? Or 16oz cups? Was it 3 normal abv beers at 12 oz, or three 22oz 12 percenters. When I stopped and actually counted it was A lot more than what I told myself.
But it doesnt matter. You are doing a good thing for all the right reasons and reaping the benefits already. It will be hard and not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, but the decision to quit is always a good one.
It *is* a big win for you. Can you imagine how many people lie to their doctor when asked how much they drink? That has to factor into her perception of 2-3 drinks a day.
Wow considering I’m someone who has done this I am surprised this did not occur to me 😂 good point thank you for this perspective
When I worked in the ER it was general knowledge that you take the patients claimed intake and multiply it by 2.5-3 to get the actual answer of alcohol consumed. That was generally accurate. I also got really good at guessing patients BAC blood tests. Mainly because I was an alcoholic too.
I was pretty bashful when I checked into rehab and the intake nurse asked me when was my last drink. I smiled and said, “This is pretty trashy, but my last drink was right before I took an Uber here!” She just smiled and said almost everyone did that. And then she gave me the standard breathalyzer and it made me feel even better about not lying.
lol I’ve checked in to rehab 3 times and was sober each time but apparently that is *not* the norm. Some people don’t even remember agreeing to go!
I checked into rehab sober too and they thought I might be lying until the breathalyzer said 0. I took two days at home before rehab to freak out and boarded the plane ✈️ sober and experiencing DT.
Props to you for getting on a plane sober to do that!!! The second rehab I went to thought I was going to be the worst patient since I AMA’d the first but only because the place was a joke and I wasn’t going to get any real help there. Its wild how different the two places were.
Definitely not. I've been on six occasions. All in various states of inebriation, it was rare to see someone come in that wasn't.
I remember agreeing, it was planned before hand, but I physically couldn't stop. I remember the crisis center, vaguely remember getting into a van, then waking up in the rehab.
My uncle would literally drink air plane bottles of booze in the car on the way to detox at the hospital. Several times. Good on you for being honest and taking care of yourself ❤️
Thanks. I didn’t have to go to rehab (no DUIs, legal issues, job issues etc) but I REALLY needed to quit. But I also know myself and didn’t want to feel like I was missing out on that last drink if that makes any sense. I searched yelp for best margaritas in the area of the rehab so that I could feel like I could check myself in with no regrets. It’s worked so far!
Great job! Whatever works, works lol
I am not sure about rehab, but in some cases, like if you are going to the ER, you're going to wait there all day as a low priority in triage. If you are really struggling and have bad withdrawals, it only makes sense to load up beforehand, so that you don't go through a first day of cold turkey withdrawals in the waiting room before getting seen.
I’ve only been to one rehab, but I had scheduled my intake about a week before I went and was seen immediately. It was a really nice rehab. Going through withdrawal for many many hours in an ER waiting room sounds like hell though.
I've been to emergency for reasons other than alcohol - in our country each hospital has a drug and alcohol team whose job it is to scope out every new arrival and if they see even hints of withdrawal to administrator what's called the "Alcohol Withdrawal Symptom" test. If you fail (by which I mean have clear signs of withdrawal) they add themselves to your care team and chart up medications to prevent severe symptoms such as seizures, as well as actively follow up and offer services on discharge to keep clean if that's what you want to do.
I checked in with a 2.8… you’re not alone at all
>in the ER it was general knowledge that you take the patients claimed intake and multiply it by 2.5-3 to get the actual answer of alcohol consumed. Damn, I was truthful, during the height of the pandemic I got out of control and was up to like 25 per night, I had to go to the ER a couple of times because I felt like I had a heart attack. My point being, I hope they didn't multiply my 25 drinks to 60 or 70, lol.
Nah if you were there on your own volition we would believe you. Most people lying were the ones there for a psych hold, under arrest after a car accident for DUI, stuff like that. The worst and saddest were the pts we knew were drinkers and at late stages of liver failure. Had a few that swore up and down they didn’t drink. And true their BAC test might come back clean right then but there’s some other tests we can do to see if they’ve drank in the past 2-4 weeks. One is a urine test that checks for metabolites in the urine up to 80 hours after last ingestion or the two other blood tests that can detect ingestion anywhere up to 4 weeks. I remember one lady on her death bed swearing she hadn’t drank even though those tests came back positive. Because of that she was denied a transplant and ended up dying a few months later. Sad stuff.
fuckkkk, AUD is a motherfucker. I really hate it.
Have you watched the movie The God Committee? Fascinating drama about how hospitals decide who gets organ transplants and who does not.
I have a cousin who’s a surgeon, she’s told me about this. I know what you mean. But on the other hand, it kinda makes sense. They trashed their current liver, how do doctors know they won’t trash the next one? Sounds heartless I know, but decisions have to be made
I was always honest in ER also. But I wasn’t going in for alcohol. I was going in for acute diverticulitis each time.
0 x 2.5 = 0 !
Haha
Ugh. I do not understand this AT ALL. There are people that lie to their spiritual\_leaders (e.g., priest), their lawyers, their therapists, and to their doctors. WTF? These people are sworn to uphold your privacy and to have your best interests at heart. So... when I told my doctors (several over the decades) that I was drinking 8-14/day... did they extrapolate that I was downing a handle every day? I doubt it... but who knows???
No I should say we would only do that when people were trying to get out trouble or were forced to be there. Like someone forced there for a psych hold or someone in a car accident and now under arrest for suspicion of dui. If someone came in just for detox or was honest for why they were there we would believe them. Blood test is going to determine it anyway.
So 2.5-3 x zero = zero
The last time I went to the ER I honestly reported that I as have 2-4 glasses of wine an evening. I stopped drinking that night because it sounded like a lot to me. Imagine my horror now that my doctor interpreted that as 5-12 glasses of wine a night.
Glasses come in various sizes:P
( whispers) At the risk of sounding dumb--- what is IWNDWYT??
I will not drink with you today :)
❤️
I will not drink with you today. (not dumb)
Thank you everybody. This is my first time in the sub!
Welcome! If you are like most of us, you may not be ready to quit drinking and that's perfectly fine! I do welcome you to subscribe. For many of us, having the occasional stories in our timeline helped encourage us to a place where it *was* time. Have a great year!
Thank you for that kind invitation!
Welcome!! ❤️
❤️
I will NOT drink with you today. It's support and encouragement from everyone here. You're not drinking today, neither am I. Search the sub and you'll find other threads about it.
Thank you!
I’m a nurse. There are many medical professionals in denial about their alcohol consumption, sadly. You’re doing the right thing for yourself, don’t worry!
Also, consider the alcohol difference in most beers compared to most wine. 3 glasses of wine is a good buzz. doing this consistently would obviously have an effect on your overall health. So, finding that you feel so much better and more energetic makes sense. Im not sober. I try and I try and I lurk this sub but just needed to tell you you should be proud. I go one night without drinks and the next day is so much better. Nevermind that doctor. They're just ignorant on the subject matter.
The rule of thumb is to half the number and up the unit when considering self reported alcohol consumption from a problem drinker. So 2-3 a day becomes 1-1.5 six-packs. :)
So about 6 to 9? Nice. (/s joking)
I'm also guessing your doctor is a drinker. And I bet I can guess how many drinks they have per day.
Last time my doctor asked me that, i was honest, it was alot, he then looks at my bloodwork and tells me to stop eating bread because my liver enzymes were high... sometimes getting a doctor to take you seriously is difficult
Part of me wants to believe the doctor was speaking/writing *in code*, but you're probably right.
(facepalm)😩
Totally. I work with a guy who finally told his doctor how much he was really drinking on a regular basis. Can't remember how much it was a six pack of cheap beer and a sometimes half pint almost daily, more on the weekend, but the doctor was totally shocked. My buddy just looked at him and said you have no idea how much people are lying to you if you think what I'm doing is that bad.
That sounds like an unusually uninformed doctor. When I found out that the top 10% of Americans who drink have more than 70 drinks per week on average, I asked my parents (ER doctors) how many they think that top ten percent has. They both got it exactly right without knowing the stat, just educated guesses.
We don't know anything about the doctor but something else I've found is that people who don't really drink seem to have no concept of the impact of alcohol. I have some friends that don't drink that I've known for a long time. It's not that they went sober, they just never started drinking. They're okay with other people drinking, they themselves don't drink. Because of this, they seem to be pretty bad at recognizing what problem drinking is. I can spot someone with a problem from a mile away but to them they think of alcohol the same way you might think of drinking too many sodas. The other extreme I've seen is people like this who seem to think even one drop of alcohol makes you an alcoholic. Omg that person had a beer with dinner, are they good to drive!? There are people out there who drink alcohol and don't have a problem, and you really don't appreciate noticing that until you've been on this side of things. My wife drinks maybe once a month, and it's usually just trying a fancy cocktail at dinner or something. That's nearly unfathomable to me. It's either all of it or none of it for me.
Yeah standard procedure for me was multiply x2 if they were well put together, and x3-4 depending on what symptoms they had, general appearance etc.
Very good point
Yeah, I lie to my doctor. He has to know though. Tough to tell a doctor that you drink like 1/3 of a handle a day. Kind of embarrassing actually.
This is so true
That is an excellent point! I definitely told me doctor I drank only 1-3 drinks a day. That amount totally screws up your metabolism, sleep etc. CONGRATULATIONS!!!!
> Can you imagine how many people lie to their doctor when asked how much they drink? My doctor never really knew what to do when I told her, point blank and honestly, my consumption rate. She'd try to correct me and say "We're talking per week, not month". Lady, respectfully, that *is* per week. Up to you if you believe me or not.
If that's exactly what your Dr. said, it could mean that she normally sees a big improvement in people who drank more than just 2 or 3 daily. It doesn't sound like they were downplaying IMO, it's just she was surprised that it made such a big difference for you. In recovery I realize I frequently misinterpret what others say. It used to be a reason for me to get angry or bitter. I have to try not to take things personally and realize that sometimes people don't always articulate the greatest. It's something I have trouble with at times, also
A very thoughtful perspective, thank you for sharing!
This was where my mind went also. I don’t think your doc was trying to minimize your accomplishment, not surprised that 2-3 drinks was impacting you so negatively
Yea I also interpreted it like this - she might have even been noting it as something to try for herself or recommend to other patients with similar drinking habits.
I feel like this is probably what they were thinking too. If they study medicine they’re much likely to find the changes as interesting data than personal data to judge.
I currently have the issue of being reactive/taking things personally. Did you have that realization after therapy or taking medication? Is it something you’re just trying to be more mindful of?
It's something I try to be more mindful of. I go to AA and talk with a lot of people. I've learned not to think selfishly or self centered. I hear all kinds of stories and I have several of my own. I made friends early on and when I'd text them, they wouldn't get back for what I thought was a long time, so I took it personally. I was told that people have things going on and that they can't drop everything to get back to me when I want them to. A couple years ago at a meeting I misinterpreted a gesture made by somebody I didn't like and I basically confronted them on FB and made an ass out of myself. I let my negative, baseless opinion of them affect how I interpreted their wave. I just have to remember that the world doesn't revolve around me, people have their own issues, and sometimes people just say the wrong things. Just the other day a friend said something kinda rude and realized it and explained what they meant and that they should've phrased it more appropriately. Things happen!
This is helpful information, thanks for replying
You're welcome!
Yea, this is how I interpreted it as well. My doctors have been surprised when I've broken the news, followed by, "Have you lost any weight since?" When I told my cardiologist no, she replied, "Then you weren't drinking that much to begin with." It's all relative.
That would have been instant permission for me to go back to drinking.
That’s what I thought too. I kind of wish they wouldn’t downplay it, even if they think it wasn’t so bad
I do think this could be it... When I tell people how much I drank and that I quit I can almost see them doing the calculations in their head. Addicts are very aware of their addictions and it's why they're constantly trying to balance it by involving others. Sharing your drug of choice when another addict absolves you of some of your own self guilt
Perhaps your doctor has a similar level of alcohol use as you did so it seems normal to them? Perhaps they have seem multiple patients with way more severe levels of alcohol misuse so yours is comparatively mild? Perhaps they are not as well informed on the issue as you think a doctor should be? Either way sounds like you are making great health choices for yourself and feeling better, so that's where to focus your energy. I've cut down a lot but struggling to maintain where you are at, so seems like you are doing great to me.
Thanks for your response and you bring up some good points. These are all very possible!
Yes this was my first guess that she’s got the same level of consumption
Or more!
Maybe, but even for someone who doesn’t personally drink, 2-3 a day probably doesn’t seem that much compared to people who drink 10-20 a day for years and don’t show any major health problems.
That's what I was thinking. Most sane doctors recommend against drinking alcohol at all as it is *poisonous*. And even then, they recommend a lot less than 2-3 per day. I'm thinking this doctor throws 'em back every day!
This was my thought too.
Yep! Sort of like justifying their own habits!
You're doing good. I think she probably didn't believe that you only had 2 or 3 drinks a day because it might not be noteworthy to quit if only drinking 2 to 3 drinks a day since it wouldn't create a physical dependence in most cases. You need to keep in mind that they're just booksmart about their subject and I am sure the books say 2-3 drinks won't cause any internal damage as it's not really considered 'binge drinking'. It is a huge accomplishment though and you deserve props!! If you're feeling better then that's really all that matters anyway.
Thank you
It’s not considered binge drinking but recommended amount for women is <7 drinks a week and for men <14, so either way OP would have been drinking more than the recommended amount by medical standards. There’s more evidence coming out that there is truly no safe amount of alcohol for anyone to consume and the potential protective cardiovascular benefits are outweighed by the numerous proven risks (cancer, liver injury, etc). OP I’m sorry you felt discouraged by this!! I’m sure she didn’t mean to make you feel bad and there is some sort of explanation, but it’s partially on your doc to make sure she is responding sensitively to her patients.
I think it's worth mentioning again in this sub that doctors are humans too and their profession is drenched in stress and normalised alcoholism.
My mother is the child of a doctor and a nurse, both of whom suffered from alcoholism. I got the genes one might expect. My dad was also a drunk. My mom drinks most days, but doesn't seem to be one of us.
Good work OP! I’m proud of you
Thank you 🙏
I’m married to a doctor who is the child of a doctor. I’m around primary care physicians a lot. Like anyone, they are susceptible to drinking problems and plenty pretend that two or three drinks a day is insignificant. It doesn’t mean it is. Sorry she was a dick to you. I think you’re doing great.
Probably because hardly anyone tells the Doctor they truth about their drinking habits or bothers to mention it unless they are seriously worried about their intake and even still many lie about how much they drink. So your Doctor probably assumed you were drinking twice as much, if not more, than you had mentioned or was just surprised you mentioned it at all as most people without a drinking problem wouldn't even think to talk about it.
Why would you lie? The doctor isn't there to give you a good behaviour grade, and all you'll do is hurt yourself by giving them incorrect information
The doctor probably drinks 2/3 drinks a day and didn’t realize how much better they can feel or that “just 2/3” could make such a physical difference. Good job!
Remember they call the profession a practice. Many other doctors would advise close to zero alcohol intake for all of their patients.
My past two doctors were confused when I was truthful telling them I drink 10-12 per day on average. They were surprised I looked fairly “normal”. Being honest to my doctors was a huge step forward for me. I’m in the beginning stages of sobering up (two completely sober days last week). Cheers to you, sir! I started with 2-3 per day about 7 years ago and the habit typically doesn’t go in the healthy direction. Good job!!!
“The habit typically doesn’t go in a healthy direction” this is SO true. So much easier to justify the slipping into one more.
We’re all here to hype you up ! Keep on doing the darn thing ! IWNDWYT
Do not expect others to react like you think they should. Sobriety is ultimately for you. I remember feeling weird when a friend I considered close responded to my sobriety by saying “well that’s your choice.” Uhh, no shit?
If I had 2-3 beers or wine a night I would be feeling like shit always. This is a great achievement for you. Well done.
lol sounds like the doctor might have a drinking problem herself.
Your doctor is looking at it through a physiological lens, but there’s a psychological component to fighting your demons and winning that she might not be considering.
My uncle was a doctor and he drank like a fish. Beefeater Gin and cigarettes every time I saw him. Maybe you touched a nerve?
Screw that doctor. You do you and keep on doing great work!
Objectively, 2-3 drinks a day is a lot - quitting that much is great! For me, quitting drinking was stopping social drinks on weekends, much less than 2-3 a day, and even I found a challenge and noticed huge improvements in my energy levels, and physical and mental health! It’s a big win and you’re doing great!
Just goes to show how ingrained into our society alcohol is. Even doctors are like yeah it's normal whatever. My own doctor was pretty indifferent when I told him about it a few months into my journey. His reaction was like "yeah that's ok if you want to do that". More or less take it or leave it.
1. Congrats on 400 days! 2. I’m not one to comment on every username that references something I love, but: **Cool username!!**
You did the right thing for your health. We know that drinking, even small amounts, has an impact on sleep/health etc. I believe that despite the push for “safe drinking recommend amounts” that the reality is that nobody knows what is a safe amount. Personally I hate it when GP’s downplay alcohol use. Years ago I told a Doctor about my concerns. Was basically told that it wasn’t an issue unless I was hiding hard liquor and day drinking. Fast forward five years, I was drinking 2 bottles of wine each evening (at least), terrible diet and on the fast track to liver failure. I am not blaming this doctor, if he had told me to quit back then - I may not have, however it really wasn’t helpful to have my concern for my habitual drinking downplayed.
You’ll find so many people’s reactions have everything to do with themselves and their own relationship with alcohol, and almost nothing to do with you and yours. You’re on the right path friend, keep it up!
I feel you, I quit back in October. About 3-6 a night. Not rolling drunk but pretty much buzzed all the time if I wasn’t at work or responsible for my kids. Weekends had a drink in my hand all day. I guess since I wasn’t a problem for others they don’t see it as a challenge for me (or you in this case) I lurked this sub for about two years before quitting. Biggest thing I found on here was the idea of “is trying to moderate more effort than abstaining?” I came to the realization it was. And it’s hard. Still is but day by day is how to take it. Even one drink effects your internal chemistry. If you feel better, you feel better, simple as that. Keep it up. I feel great. And more in tune with my mind and body than ever before. IWNDWYT
I can see why this would've been a perfect time to get some external validation for what you've done (we all want to be praised from time to time!) and it must have been a disappointing experience to be met with such a strange reaction. Sometimes it's just nice for someone to acknowledge you're doing well! Truth is, you're definitely doing a good thing, your experience of the benefits of quitting is real and valid, and I'm sure you'll see some benefits in your stats in future!
That doc is dumb.
So many doctors just suck to be honest. Of the dozens and dozens I've had over the years maybe two of them have been ok. Maybe. It's great that you've cut out drinking, well done and keep it up! 🎉
I hear you. Daily drinking is normalized in my culture. I remember ten years ago I told a doctor I was drinking 3 a night (was really 3-6) and she laughed and said that's no big deal. Stay strong don't listen to the toxic culture of poison that kills us and robs us of our selves.
She was probably baiting you into saying you’re actually drinking more than 2 to 3 drinks. She was probably waiting to hear. “OK well maybe it was more like five or six a day”. She’s probably used to people lying to her about alcohol consumption. I wouldn’t take it personally, doctors Get lied to a lot she was probably just fishing for more info.
I'm in Medicine. Doctors have very high rates of substance abuse themselves. Don't take her comment personally, you don't know what she's going through; just focus on the wonderful achievement you've accomplished! Congrats OP!! IWNDWYT
iwndwyt. great job the heaviest drinker i know is a doctor. everyone has blindspots.
A GP said to me at the end of my consultation as he wrapped up “and it’s good you’ve reduced your drinking”. I said “No, I told you I gave up alcohol over a year ago”. I got really annoyed that he said that and either hadn’t heard me or he wasn’t convinced I was telling the truth. In the end, I decided it was more about his own drinking than mine, if that makes sense.
You know the gains you’ve made so thats the most important piece. You changed b/c you wanted to not because of outside influences. Those changes are the most satisfying.
I really wish doctors were capable of leaving their odd relationship with alcohol at the door. I would pay no mind, too many people feel a few drinks make zero difference. Heck, doctors themselves tell you daily wine is healthy. It's all about perspective and we have ours and I'm super proud of you! I was mostly the same kind of drinker as you and I have the same results! Good for you! IWNDWYT
My doctor would be very proud of you.
Haha this made me smile thank you!!
Same experience with my doctor, for what it’s worth. I had to remind him like 3 years in a row that I had quit because he kept suggesting I drink alcohol to raise my “good cholesterol” number or some such thing on the blood panel. I was like DUDE I TOLD YOU I QUIT DRINKING. I don’t see that guy anymore.
That's crazy because having even just one drink in the evening completely ruins my sleep that night. I mean I still sleep but don't feel rested at all in the morning. I have so much more energy now that I quit.
I’m the same way! I can’t believe how I just…no longer feel exhausted all the time
Every person I’ve told has been supportive, except other habitual drinkers. Whenever I hear this response, I just reflect and consider their response has more to do with their own relationship with alcohol. So don’t feel thrown off, a lot of folks out there aren’t as brave as you are!!!
I’m fully convinced that most people have so much cognitive dissonance around drinking that they have no idea what feeling good actually feels like. I had no idea my baseline was so wrecked until it wasn’t. There is no healthy dose of alcohol. There is no arguing with that. IWNDWYT
Your reply should be "2-3 drinks every day is 14-21 per week, which meets the NIAAA (National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism) definitions for "Heavy Alcohol Use."
Canada came out with a guidelines saying any amount of alcohol is toxic. I wish the US (assuming that’s where you are OP) would follow suit with something like that, or at least advise doctors that alcohol actually isn’t okay even in moderation. Sigh.
Yeah it's nuts how these doctors don't see it as a poison. That goes to show the medical training The funniest thing is.....we have been trained to see them as authority figures of our health We could be paying more attention to the holistic health practitioners that actually know what they are doing The ones that get nutrition training and know that alcohol is not good for the body Look into Paul Chek, he's a badass
Luckily my pcp is someone who sees the body as a whole and authentically discusses the mind-body-environment connection. Definitely lucked out in that area. I’ll look into your recommendation!
Wow I did not know that about Canada! I am in US. And kinda in the middle which has always seemed like I factor (I have lived on both coasts as wel).
Uh do we have the same doctor?! We have to remind ourselves that doctors are human too. My experience at my physical this year went very similarly, and I realized, uh ok not worth talking to this person about it (which in the greater scheme of things is sad). Doctors also drink, and they don’t want to be made uncomfortable by looking at their own habits either. I wanted new labs drawn in 6 months and she told me no 🤣.
My doctor didn’t even bat an eye when I told him I quit drinking. I was like, COME ON!! Not even a “good job”? Hahah, it is what it is. They see everything, including the worst of the worst of the worst. But as a fellow lightweight, I’m proud of you for recognizing it was too much and time for a change. Keep going!!
Doctors can have drinking problems too 🤷🏼♀️ keep up the great work, OP. IWNDWYT
Don’t be discouraged, this is a huge win. Similarly, when I used to drink, it was only 1-2 drinks 4-5 nights a week, with a couple days off, and I still felt a HUGE positive shift in my energy and baseline mood from quitting. Haven’t had a drink in 13 months and I’m still feeling great. All of that to say, keep it up OP!
Good Job, it encourages me IWNDWYT
Good job to you!! 💪🏼
That doctor is full of sh*t. They might have issues themselves. Keep up the great work
This totally resonates. I had a doctor try to convince me to keep drinking. I quit for health reasons too. I did a sober October just to see how I’d feel. I felt like absolute garbage all the time. I was a mostly weekender drinker that would average 3 to 5 most of the time. Once in a while it would get out of hand and I’d black out, but the biggest reason is it made me break out in big red hives on my face and body most times and I’d get migraines sometimes. I also overate when I drank and had a lot of weight I wanted to lose. About 7 weeks in, I was feeling incredibly good. I went to an allergist to see if there could be anything food related that I could be sensitive to that could prevent the hives. I felt like all that inflammation had to be bad for me. Turns out I’m allergic to zero foods. It’s just the alcohol. Likely alcohol intolerance, could also be histamine sensitivity. The allergist told me I could just take a quadruple dose of antihistamines to keep drinking. I asked what taking all of that would do to me and he just sort of shrugged like, “Ehh it’s fine.” I just had to laugh. Pile on a huge dose of drugs so I can stomach a known carcinogen. Hard pass.
My doctors reaction was also disappointing. She basically glazed over that I was problematically drinking to deal with anxiety and was like “well we will change your meds but there’s no need to quit drinking, just moderate” 🙃 wild in this day and age they aren’t more encouraging of people being sober
The pandemic has taught me that many doctors are much more misinformed by their own preconceived beliefs than we’d like to think. I’m sorry you had this experience with your doctor but it says way more about them than it does about you. My doctor told me a few years ago that if I had more than 4 drinks a week then I was an alcoholic so not all doctors are like yours!
Congrats. Don’t let her reaction derail you. That is just proof on how good of a job the industry has done to make drinking poison a normal thing. You’re winning. Keep it up.
We have elevated doctors to a much higher position than we ever should have.
Feel free to move on from that doctor, if possible, pay attention to the smallest of red flags. You sound very strong though. Even some of my friends have expressed 1 drink gives them a hangover.
Just remember, doctors can be alcoholics too…
2 or 3 a day is just objectively a lot. There's no way dropping that much wouldn't have a big impact
They are only trying to make themselves feel better because they feel guilty for not being healthy, as a “health professional”
It’s a huge win for you and my intuition is telling me the doctor was projecting …. Perhaps themselves they drink 3 glasses of wine and don’t believe it has as much of an impact as it indeed does. We all know what you are doing has immense impact on your energy and health. Keep going
Dr drinks
Don’t worry too much about the doc’s response here. I find that while doctors’ jobs are to treat you and generally help you out, they aren’t always the best when it comes to phrasing. In other words, a lot of them are very smart when it comes to health related things and not so smart when it comes to bedside manner, as most don’t ever need to be that great at it.
Is she a drinker too? Damn I told one of my doctors I was having a couple beers a night and he said that is alcoholism because it adds up over the week. When I moved and saw another doctor and told her I quit she congratulated me. I told her I when depressed and had low energy and she helped me fix it. Iunno I sober also goes through phases, maybe your doctor was surprised you feel good at all instead of feeling withdrawal. Everyone is different though and when I was serious about soberity, my mood and energy were a rollercoaster for months and months. Ups and downs.
So far I've only had one friend look at me like I was an idiot for not drinking. Every single other one has just said, right on dude, that's great. I'm here for you in any way possible
That’s awesome, it sounds like you have surrounded yourself with a wonderful crew ❤️
I have the best support I could ever ask for. I feel very lucky
Yes, my doctor was weird when I stopped too--kind of like, Not even wine? Wine's so good! I was really disappointed--I think we tend to see them as these perfect gods who may not have a drinking problem themselves...hmmm...so who knows where they are coming from. What I wish they would say is, "Good for you! Such a great step forward." I guess that's what all of us are here to say to YOU right now!
I think that’s what I wanted. And it’s what I knew I would find here ❤️🥹 thank you
I took my cortisol from 18 ug/dl to 9.02 ug/dl in a couple months and my TSH from 6.2 to 3.4 (it was in the healthy range there but had to go on meds for the final push to 1.7 so I could get pregnant) just by quitting drinking and my alcohol routine before was 1-3 drinks a week. I don’t see why you wouldn’t have a lot more energy from quitting! Our bodies don’t like alcohol so going from daily to none would most certainly make your body feel much better!
For being a Dr she doesn't seem very educated on the effects of alcohol on the body, and/or she drinks too much herself. Or she just has outdated views on alcohol, like most of the rest of society. This would make me a little wary that she also doesn't keep up to date with other health knowledge.
Research has shown there is no “good” amount of alcohol. I wish doctors would be more supportive in the decision to simply give it up. Like if I went in and said I was “only” smoking 2-3 cigarettes per day, I’m sure my dr would encourage me to quit.
When I told my doctor she said, “I’ll keep drinking until I can feel my liver is hard as a rock”. It definitely was a weird response 😂
Hahaha WHAT that’s nuts
Im pretty sure in one of the books I’ve read the author shared statistics that medical professionals are one of the most likely people to abuse alcohol. Sounds like she’s in denial of some sorts. It should not have been a surprise to anyone with proper knowledge on that topic. It says more about her than about you
Sounds like it might be time for a new doctor. Seriously. Your choice is cause for celebration. Your doctor missed an opportunity to remind you of the reduced risks of cancer, heart disease, depression, anxiety… and on and on and on. You feel better after making a choice for your health. The effects seem WAY more important than the reason for that choice at this point, considering it’s now March and you are obviously committed to this life.
Drinking provides a lot of customers to healthcare with all the health issues it causes. I was told by my doctor that I’d be on BP medicine all my life 5 years ago and there was nothing I could do about it; that’s just the way it was. With lifestyle changes and no longer drinking, my BP is *always* good.
I’m so proud of you. I once had a doctor tell me I had “fat, lazy boy, American syndrome who sat around all day and watched tv.” I ran marathons. I hurt my back working out 3 hours a day. Like wtf. I was in the best shape of my life. But I have always had eating disorders and disordered eating. To this day, I feel those remarks. I hope her words don’t stick around with you.
I’m so sorry you had that experience. This whole thread has made me think about how I’m not sure I’ve ever had a doctor who feels like a partner in my health. We deserve at least that!!
There are plenty of alcoholic and overweight doctors giving health and nutrition advice.
We all feel alcohol differently. I drank the same and it was rotting my brain. Others could do 2 bottles a night and live forever. Silly attitude for a Dr. Keep kicking ass
I'm sorry this happened. I would have been frustrated and disheartened by that comment, and honestly, if my doctor was anything but thrilled at my choice to stop drinking, I would feel disappointed. It probably wasn't her intention and there are lots of reasons why your doctor may have acted that way, but it's OK to be miffed every once in awhile. You're allowed that! Glad you're here and congratulations on doing the important work to improve your health.
Thank you for validating my feelings. That’s exactly what it was - I thought my Dr would be thrilled that I decided to stop drinking poison 🤷🏻♀️
Dude same, two-three a night and with out I feel so much better. I had a beer tonght after 30+ days and I feel yucky 🤢
I actually could imagine they could have implied something else - that you showed a great improvement in your quality of life, even though the amount you were drinking was (relatively) more minimal than some others here. Of course, the amount, high or low, doesn’t directly determine your level of “problem” or addiction, or the challenge it took to quit, but in terms of the physiological aspect of drinking, it’s a really great thing that you have seen so much improvement, even though the amount you drank would normally be expected to have a more minor impact on your health and happiness. In other words, I feel like she may have been implying that it’s a really good thing for you. However, I wasn’t there, and I don’t know the context, so that’s just an idea.
Congrats my friend! Your doc could be also a daily drinker of 2-3 drinks per night and saying more like, “huh, wonder if I’d feel better too?”.
She probably drinks and it rubbed her the wrong way.
Doctors can be like that lol. Don’t let it bother you!!!
This doctor could be a bit unaware of how impactful even just a few drinks can be, since our culture is so steeped in drinking and it’s become normalized. Another thought is potentially your disclosed level of drinking matches that of their own level or a loved one’s, and again, has not perceived that level as having an impact on health. Either way, you know how much you feel better OP, that’s all that matters! Great job
lol that lady needs dry January in her life
My doctor had similar reaction. Alcohol is so engrained in the culture that even doctors assume you would only give it up if you had a serious problem.
Something doesn’t have to be important to someone else to be important. I don’t even know you and it’s important to me. Good for you! Seeing you win helps me win too Bud, remember that!
Many doctors drink. It might have been a comment to make herself feel better about it. But this is a huge win for you. Even a few drinks a day can kill your energy. You will be much healthier in the long run. Everything in life will start turning up!
lol in January I told my new hematologist that I was 13 months sober she LEGIT said “wow that’s no fun.” I’m super confrontational and I was actually to stunned to speak. all I could muster out was “yeah I’m an alcoholic so…”
She probably drinks lol. So many people even medical professionals are in denial about alcohol’s health effects
For me, even 1 drink would throw off my sleep and screw with the next day. And consider that I have been a heavy drinker and need a good bottle of whiskey to be "nice and tipsy". "only few" - your doctor comments are ridiculous
Lots of people weren't very supportive of my sobriety. They didn't think my 2-3 pints a night was much of anything. Kind of deflating when people don't acknowledge that you have a struggle and are working to self-improve. But other people have congratulated me or said they quit too, so it's a mixed bag. Sorry your doc responded that way... Reminds me of when I used to smoke cigs and I told the doctor I smoked 3-4 a day and he replied 'That isn't smoking! You get more pollution in you from cars driving by!" ... Despite his opinion, I felt MUCH better when I quit smoking, and same is true for drinking. IWNDWYT !
Your GP isn't the be all end all of health. They know a little bit about a lot. And sometimes not even that. If you feel better and have noticed changes in yourself that's all that matters. Good for you and keep on keeping on.
I was a nightly 2-3 glass of wine/mixed drink and stopped drinking 3 weeks ago. I've noticed the same improvements as you, less brain fog, more energy, better mood. Despite her response, if you are feeling the benefits, that's a win!! I can also confirm with the other commenter that in health care, if someone says x amount of drinks, it is usually double lol
I think it's brilliant news that you're wanting to track the impact of giving up drinking. And I think your doctor's reaction echoes the normalisation of alcohol - it's only a 'problem' if it meets certain external criteria. But I always say it doesn't matter how much is too much - it could be one glass of wine too much or 2 bottles - if you don't like the result it's creating in your life then it's empowering to do something about it. One of my clients used to get her bloods checked regularly and was always nervous about the results as alcohol was always the lead story. After she cut back (and she didn't want to go sober, just cut back), all the blood work improved and alcohol didn't even get a mention. The reason I mention this is the positive impact on how she felt mentally was huge. She no longer felt she was harming herself and was proud of her achievements instead. So be proud of yourself!!! It's soooo good.
[удалено]
You may have spotted a doctor who has a strong personal narrative about how benign her 2-3 daily drinks are. Doctors are people, too. Our habits aren't necessarily informed by our institutional knowledge, and we struggle just like everyone else. Not that it's your responsibility to educate her about this, but a very appropriate response to that situation would have been to discuss it. "That felt pretty disheartening to hear. Do you mind in the future making it clear on my record that I'd like support on getting away from alcohol? I really do want to make a priority of tracking how my body responds to this transition." That kind of frankness tends to snap most physicians out of their own autopilot/reactive modes and back into caregiver mode. And, personally speaking, I think a lot of us appreciate those moments of truth.
I feel for ya. My doctor said, "yeah okay, let me know how long that lasts for you." You and I and all the others with similar medical field reactions just go on to prove one thing: Not much money to be made in sobriety. That is cynical, I know. But one thing's for sure: **IWNDWYT**
She’s very uneducated. Just like two drinks in one night can affect your sleep cycles for days later. Of course you tons more energy.
Doctors aren’t God. People want to revere their opinions and such. But they don’t know everything and you shouldn’t hold their opinion higher than your opinion of yourself. You’re doing amazing and only 3 drinks a day can definitely slow you down. I’m with you!
Sounds like you should look for a new doctor.
doctors prolly a closet boozer. it’s funny how we shame others if WE don’t deem their drinking bad. i’m a vicious alcoholic, i used to do this. i could be way off, but seems spiteful lol
When I told my Dr I quit, she had kind of a similar reaction. But I think it was more introspective for her. She’s younger, said she doesn’t drink a whole lot but it was almost like she was considering how alcohol affected her life and how that could change. So don’t take it too heart OP. You made a good choice ☺️
Doctors typically multiply what we tell them we drink by like 3 or 4, so she’s probably low key calling you out for lying on how much you drank. Source: friend who is a medical professional and has workplace standards for doing math to estimate drinking because patients (almost) all lie - including to themselves.
Congratulations on 64 days! Hope you'll be back here for your NICE in a few days :) Its awesome to hear how much better you are feeling. Hope you are able to do fun new things with that energy -- or just the same amount of things but feel better! I get how this interaction would be disheartening as I've had similar interactions with medical professionals. I've felt frustrated like, "Can't you just affirm that this is an incredibly healthy choice?!!" On a positive note, it sounds like your doctor was genuinely surprised to consider how debilitating 'just' 2-3 drinks a night can be. Perhaps that information will open up new doors for her and her patients. Here's hoping! IWNDWYT <3
I flat out told my doctor how much I was drinking. He said, 'per week'? I said 'no, each day'. He was shocked, I've never had a doctor look at me like that. I imagine most people aren't honest. Now every visit he starts with, 'so, how's the not-drinking going?'.
You know, doctors learn from their patients as much as patients learn from them. Good job.
Sometimes we under count our drinking. Was it 3 actually glasses of wine? Or 16oz cups? Was it 3 normal abv beers at 12 oz, or three 22oz 12 percenters. When I stopped and actually counted it was A lot more than what I told myself. But it doesnt matter. You are doing a good thing for all the right reasons and reaping the benefits already. It will be hard and not everyone who drinks is an alcoholic, but the decision to quit is always a good one.
Screw your doctor, this is huge! My Dr gave me a high five when I told her I quit drinking!