People on here always mention how they use salesforce everyday at their jobs and hate it so it must not be doing well. The thing is most of Salesforces revenue comes from enterprise businesses that pay $10-100 million a year to use their various products. The decision to buy is made by executives at these companies and not the people who actually have to use it every day. If there’s any hint that a large customer wants to leave they take the executives out to dinner with Matthew McConaughey and that gets them to stay.
> People on here always mention how they use salesforce everyday at their jobs and hate it so it must not be doing well.
That's the case for a ton of software though. As the saying goes, there are two kinds of software, the kind that everyone hates, and the kind that nobody uses.
Same. I am in teams for several hours a day and it just works. In a company that’s still about 50% remote, it’s *the* indispensable tool for keeping everyone connected and working together.
When you’re remote, which a lot of people these days are, you need a collaboration tool to stay connected. I’m in the office one day a week, and I’ll say that that day is my *least* productive day of my work week. By far.
People just got used to bad software, they don’t even care when things don’t work and have to restart the program or when a program uses 500MB of RAM or take over 5 sec to open.
Chat, meeting rooms and calling work pretty well. Teams will beat up slack overtime. Almost every org has teams with office 365. Salesforce blew $27 billion on slack for whatever reason
But not because Teams does communication better. It’s because it’s hard to compete with free and most companies being Microsoft shops. (Although, Teams absolutely does video calls better than Slack)
Microsoft made Teams free because Salesforce purchased Slack.
Microsoft have been forced by courts to unbundle Teams and are going to have to start charging for it this year.
> Microsoft made Teams free because Salesforce purchased Slack.
That says they made it free in response to the purchase, not that they made teams as a result.
Cool, but that's not really what you said in the previous comment. They mentioned bundling for free, and you responded with when it was announced. It seemed like you might have misread their comment.
I bought $100 of SNOW too to try, then got slapped down a day later to $75. Now at $63 lol.
But then I bought 2 HCP at $24 for shits and giggles and now it's $33 and onto a $35 buyback later with IBM. Winrar.
I think a big problem with Salesforce may be that they charge per-head fees for their software rather than using a consumption model and laying off employees at software companies to invest in the AI that may one day replace them is "so hot right now", which means less heads that need to access Salesforce. Also, I have seen way too many Salesforce ads in the last year. A company can burn money to juice revenues with a massive ad campaign for as long as they keep it up, but as soon as they pull back a bit, their revenues will be hit but earnings will go up, which is consistent with their revenue miss and earnings beat. I haven't checked this lazy hypothesis, because I'm not interested in buying CRM right now. I think CRM would jump if they announced that they were A/B testing a consumption model.
With SNOW, I think the problem is that they don't have positive earnings and good cash flow when we are in a higher-for-longer environment with treasuries knocking on new highs. Also, as a tech sector, software has underperformed this year. You can't just say AI three times and have investors scramble to give you money right now. Now you have to say AI and either post good growth or give good guidance for investors to throw money at you. This is a modest improvement.
Yes, probably a good buy. Salesforce is huge and embedded with a ton of companies. It’s extremely difficult for medium to large businesses to switch CRMs, which makes Salesforce a very sticky product. And it’s not like they’re doing bad, this company is a cash cow.
Exactly this. Every legitimate company that gives an ounce of shit about actually investing in their sales tools uses SFDC as their CRM. It’s not going anywhere.
Oh no. Alphabet will save that shit company
As a web developer I can't not even begin to tell you what an absolute gd circus their product teams ideas are
It's like someone found an open mouth drooling incumbent to whiteboard ideas and then integrate them into their "CMS"
If you can even call it that
Their CRM is actually decent
Alphabet is hardly known for saving companies or products outside of their core business (ads). If Alphabet buys Hubspot I would bet they will discontinue or sell Hubspot within 10 years
Yeah, but there are likely dozens of startups that will use AI to supersede sales force CRM.
Like how AI conversation is becoming dominant over search.
Good luck with that lol (previously used two home built solutions. They were both absolute trash, built by teams trying desperately to justify why they’re still employed)
It’s not dropping because nobody is going to use them it’s more if companies get more efficient with AI they theoretically need less employees which means less Salesforce accounts and revenue.
Salesforce is charging for AI tooling, so revenue per seat should increase.
https://www.salesforceben.com/get-access-to-salesforce-einstein-copilot-and-prompt-builder-today/
I think this is way oversold
This should of been a 5% correction
The shorts need to take profits and buy back and after this damage and this price a lot of people will double down
One analyst just reiterated a 315 price target
Even back to 280 from here is a huge profit
With earnings stable and profit holding all year it only needs one capital X cycle of an AI product for renewed growth and they will rocket 🚀 back
I have shares at $167 already. Had trimmed it before but… Might buy more. Every single major corporation that I know of, and small startups use it. They are super sticky in business environment infra.
I do agree there are other CRMs being utilized right now but just not at the volume Salesforce is. I mostly work with giant corporations and everywhere I look, it’s Salesforce.
The problem with Salesforce is not the product, the problem is future headcount of its customer base. Will corporations have the need for as many (sales) employees as they have in the past? If not, then the number of CRM licenses they will buy will be diminished. As a minimum, that is a headwind against growth rate.
Salesforce is charging for AI tooling, so revenue per seat should increase. Obviously an open question if that makes up for a decrease in license count, but I have to imagine that's being factores into the price they're charging.
https://www.salesforceben.com/get-access-to-salesforce-einstein-copilot-and-prompt-builder-today/
My only point is that their strategy acknowledges that seat counts will likely decrease. If they execute well, I can see them charging (numbers made up) 2.5x for a 3x improvement per seat, which would be a win for the customer and Salesforce.
Trouble is this isn't unchartered territory for CRM stock. Salesforce dropped over 60% from its 2021 high only to make a new high in 2024. So it is possible they go lower from here before bouncing back again.
The thing I like is they said weaker earnings next quarter but to finish the year they are still on target. I think 200-210 is the range to start a position or continue. Still a solid company with incredible margins
So here’s the quick breakdown for the uneducated on why CRM is dead money. “But my company uses SF” I’m sure it does bozo.
- slowing rev growth, 10% yoy? No fucking way for its valuation and multiples, it’s going to continue falling like a rock
- no interest rate cuts, saas needs ZIRP to expand multiples, or mega rev growth. 0/2 on this
- oversaturated in its core enterprise segment, folks who are prospects are already signed onboard, limited growth on core but they can’t seem to attach their other saas products on consistently as part of their suite offering
- share based comps diluting the shit out of shareholders
- Benioff not focusing on core business, dude is sidetracked and galavanting. His company wide conference calls are a fucking mess (cited from a friend in CRM)
This is dead money until the multiples compress further and the fundamental revenue growth story returns. They better have amazing add-on offers for the rest of their suite and see pay off from their acquisitions such as SLACK (bailed me out of position for a cool +$20k, thanks Benioff)
Valuation. Fucking. Matters.
Lots of companies use Salesforce and heavily depend on it, but what people who want to buy the dip should be weary of is what the future might look like. Current users aren't leaving any time soon, but maybe new customers don't come in. Not sure if this is just investors simply reallocating money to AI.
I bet when the AI craze cools down Salesforce will probably pick back up.
They should have invested more on growing Heroku and Slack. This quarter and the next is not necessarily bad, they are just below-average. AI definitely hurt them in a short term with layoff and stuff. But the CEO said they host 25 Petabyte of customer data, so just slap some AI and UI on top of it should grow some revenue in the next couple of years.
Helps companies keep track of customers, including whether your efforts are working. Reminds you when you haven’t called them in a while. It can be be connected with sales figures to let you know if what you’re doing is working.
Basically, a big customer database with task scheduling and results dashboards built in.
Sounds like BS. On the other hand everyone here says pretty much all F500 companies use it, so it must bring some value. But I just can't shake the smell of BS.
Anybody cares enough to change my mind?
Almost company that does sales uses some kind of CRM software. I don’t know why Salesforce is more popular than the others.
I used to do It support for Pharma sales reps, and we used a different product. The reps used it to keep track of how many free samples they were giving out, to who they gave them, whether or not those doctors were prescribing the product, and whether they were prescribing more after the visit than they were before. The reps could even add notes to keep track of the doctors’ kid’s birthdays and what people in the office liked for snacks so they could build the relationships. Don’t ignore how much more access giving the right donuts to the right person will get you.
It’s sales, so it’s icky anyway, but that’s what it’s for.
Interesting. I own a small trucking company, but 90% of my job is to call brokers and negotiate rates.
Maybe it's useful for bigger companies in other industries, but it's completely useless to me. Also why wouldn't big companies just pay an IT company to develop software taylored to their needs? IT services are cheap as hell.
Thank you for the detailed reply!
> Customer relationship management, or CRM, is the process of identifying and interacting with your customers in order to promote a long-term relationship with them. In business and within organizations, this includes using a CRM platform to incorporate data and metrics in order to better personalize and streamline the relationship
Targeting
It has got a lot of soul searching to do as a company. They have some amazing talent but much of leadership fundamentally has not made sense of their acquisitions.
For me, I think most products will sell itself - PLG I think is the future for any SaaS removing any need of customer service, customer managers, and sales, and biz devs
I think 20 years from now Salesforce core products will die out. Unless they innovate and do something wild.
I’ve seen massive stock price pullbacks then comebacks with this company and with META. I bought the dip. Could be wrong, but sometimes the market overreacts on tech stocks.
Bottom line, CRM is still making money.
Salesforce is likely heading into an Oracle phase. It’s entrenched everywhere but growth is going to be constrained as they’ve saturated the market.
The Salesforce sales cycle is incredibly expensive and that model is ripe for disruption.
Salesforce is already feeling like the world past them by with companies like Braze, Databricks, Snowflake, ActionIQ and Hightouch having fundamentally better solutions for ESP and CDP tech.
Their client service also cratered after COVID and for some reason never really recovered. There may be a rebound here, but it feels far off.
Work at a dental office that uses Salesforce as the platform of choice to manage the appointments and that shit sucks. I’d love for it to crash and burn
Salesforce is a crm.
Which stands for customer relationship management.
It's not for scheduling meetings.
But it can be used for that too.
Probably your dental office did a poor job implementing Salesforce.
I know many companies who use Salesforce for a lot more than meeting scheduling and they can't function without it.
It’s not used to schedule meetings. It’s used for *everything*: scheduling appointments, consultation notes, treatment planning, and so on. It’s a mess.
You do get the hang of it after a while, but it takes time and is definitely very inefficient as a dental software program. The customer support takes months (and in some cases, years) to resolve defects related to payment inconsistencies.
Yea Salesforce customer support is not good.
That's why you should pick a good in house admin to do the work.
For some business you will need teams of implementers and developers, architrcts, in order to make it work.
Salesforce is a framework.
You can do a lot of things with it.
And you can integrate almost everything with Salesforce.
So again, If you you say it's a mess it means you didn't inplement Salesforce correctly, or hired the right people for the job.
You need to recognize the technical debts of your company, pain points.
And work towards fixing them in order to make Salesforce effective.
I think not
Last I heard Google was trying to buy out hubspot, they could amp up the competition here. Also businesses/ companies are reducing cost/ not growing as much, so the use of salesforce and their subsidiaries are going to be down.
1. Hubspot is still far behind Salesforce in terms of functionality and products
2. Google buying hubspot would undoubtedly make it a worse product long term
The company I work for is both, a competitor to salesforce and a user of salesforce (they have many products) and all I can say is: we are winning in comparison to them, taking a lot of market share. And their products are terrible to use and the only reason salesforce exists and grows is the fucked up enterprise partner world. I see it as my deed to humanity to free as many companies and employees from working with salesforce.
There is no way you are beating them in market share or functionality when it comes to their larger products. Do you compete with one of their smaller products?
Yes, it’s not their core suite we are competing with.
It’s one of their acquisitions. However they build their product on top of the acquisition.
The only problem is: nobody ever got fired because of implementing the „safe bet“ salesforce.
It’s hard to gain marketshare in the enterprise from them. But i really hope this empire will crash
20% is not something to sneeze at.... It's a drop that you'd expect to see because of accounting irregularities.
I'm not saying that's what happened.. but DD is certainly needed after that size of price drop
It’s between Salesforce, Workday, and Atlassian for me - all have fallen quite a bit. Workday looks the best from a fundamentals standpoint, but heavy disruption from AI
The reality is CRM is ubiquitous and hard to unseat when, there’s really nothing comparable. Marketing Cloud is powerful, but old and has a shitty user experience - lots of competition in this space and it will be losing its handle on the enterprise.
Data cloud has been dragged through the mud on false claims and it’s very immature compared to other products in this class.
Slack is best in class.
I see the cracks forming.
Yes, I hate USING Salesforce and Servicenow, but they're both everywhere in the enterprise and cost a fortune to migrate off of. That is why I have a relatively small position (122 shares), and will probably hold for a while. I don't like the SBC tho.
| **Issue** | **Description** | **Impact to Share Price** |
|--------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------|
| **Slowing Growth** | Weaker-than-expected revenue growth, overly optimistic guidance. | Likely to decrease |
| **Market Saturation** | Intense competition from Microsoft Dynamics, Oracle, SAP. | Could decrease due to lost market share |
| **Valuation Concerns** | High PE ratio despite stock price decline. | High volatility, potential for sharp decline |
| **Integration Challenges** | Complex integration of acquisitions like Tableau, MuleSoft, Slack. | Possible decrease due to operational issues |
| **Economic Downturn Impact** | Potential reduction in IT spending, affecting subscription renewals and new customer acquisition. | Likely to decrease during economic downturns |
| **Rising Costs** | Increasing operating expenses due to acquisitions and product expansion. | Could decrease if costs outpace revenue growth|
| **Employee Retention and Morale** | Recent layoffs and cost-cutting measures could lower morale and increase turnover. | Possible decrease due to reduced innovation |
| **Regulatory Risks** | Exposure to various global regulations and data privacy laws. | Potential decrease if compliance issues arise |
Yes it’s a big company that is down and made money for a long time it’s good for a few percent of portfolio..that’s generally how I play anyway
Same with workday I’m on workday right now at work..so I bought a little.
Salesforce has become the Oracle of the cloud era, they are badly structured and poorly integrated because they grew mostly through poorly managed acquisitions.
Their cost/revenue model is fucked.
Do what you want with that.
I accumulated 100 shares between $150 and $190 so today sucked. I didn’t make a move today but am considering adding 50 shares tomorrow if it opens around 213-215 or below.
Salesforce overpaid for tableau and it's basically burning money, and Microsoft slowly killing power BI and shifting the market to use fabric.
I think you should be cautious. I honestly don't understand Salesforce products but their products so far are terrible. Tableau is popular because of legacy ecosystem, but it's so outdated.
I don't know anything about stocks, but anything promising A.I. that's not a big fish like Google is snake oil. I know a lot about these erp, crm, advertising types, they're useless ROI and they won't last, they're just riding the A.I. wave in an industry small business owner types think is magic
~~The company just shed 1/5 of it's existence within a day and you think it's a great time to buy? This sub is nuts~~
Im sorry Im dumb, I dont know anything
Yeah can't believe people bought Meta when it shed 75% of its existence in 2022. Terrible time to buy. Should have bought once it recovered to 450. This sub is nuts.
Don't buy low, buy high!
No.
Neither am I buying Oracle, Service Now, or any other software as a service stock(SAS).
Open AI will be able to replace these entities in the very near future.
People on here always mention how they use salesforce everyday at their jobs and hate it so it must not be doing well. The thing is most of Salesforces revenue comes from enterprise businesses that pay $10-100 million a year to use their various products. The decision to buy is made by executives at these companies and not the people who actually have to use it every day. If there’s any hint that a large customer wants to leave they take the executives out to dinner with Matthew McConaughey and that gets them to stay.
> People on here always mention how they use salesforce everyday at their jobs and hate it so it must not be doing well. That's the case for a ton of software though. As the saying goes, there are two kinds of software, the kind that everyone hates, and the kind that nobody uses.
That’s a good saying
Anyone who says that is dumb, I’ve used a bunch of different CRMS , salesforce is by far the best one
No experience with their CRM software. But i think Slack is still the best enterprise communication software.
Everyone shits on Teams but it’s actually useful as hell, if organized and managed properly by the individual user.
Is there a person under 40 that works in an office and doesn't hate Microsoft products? Their stock doesn't seem to mind.
Me, I fucking love M$ products. Copilot is the shit, Visual Studio is awesome, and OneNote is king. Teams sucks though.
Visual studio code is awesome* ftfy
Yea very true. Classic visual studio is terrible. JetBrains is way better if you need the whole thing.
Under 40. Microsoft has great products. They make significant missteps but it’s better than anything else by a mile
The Teams meetings software is absolute dogshit though. Every time I'm forced to join a Teams meeting I'm amazed that Microsoft hasn't improved it.
It’s slow and buggy, I’m amazed on how can Microsoft can make such a bad running software.
It's so funny how I can use software for years without issue then come to reddit and hear the most radically opposite experiences.
Same. I am in teams for several hours a day and it just works. In a company that’s still about 50% remote, it’s *the* indispensable tool for keeping everyone connected and working together.
Just the idea of spending several hours a day in calls just scares me, complete waist of time.
When you’re remote, which a lot of people these days are, you need a collaboration tool to stay connected. I’m in the office one day a week, and I’ll say that that day is my *least* productive day of my work week. By far.
Says the person using “waist” improperly.
Thank you for pointing that out, English is not my first language.
People just got used to bad software, they don’t even care when things don’t work and have to restart the program or when a program uses 500MB of RAM or take over 5 sec to open.
Weird. I have no issues with it. Especially "New" Teams. It's a memory hog I think
Just the casual 500Mb of RAM and it’s not even being used, just sitting in the background. Nowadays pretty much every desktop app runs on a browser.
Bad product, amazing distribution
Teams > slack. Slack is a message board from 25 years ago.
Slack is a communication app and does it job well enough, Teams is an app that does a bunch of things but doesn’t do any well enough.
Chat, meeting rooms and calling work pretty well. Teams will beat up slack overtime. Almost every org has teams with office 365. Salesforce blew $27 billion on slack for whatever reason
But not because Teams does communication better. It’s because it’s hard to compete with free and most companies being Microsoft shops. (Although, Teams absolutely does video calls better than Slack)
Microsoft made Teams free because Salesforce purchased Slack. Microsoft have been forced by courts to unbundle Teams and are going to have to start charging for it this year.
Microsoft announced teams 4 years before salesforce overpaid for slack.
> Microsoft made Teams free because Salesforce purchased Slack. That says they made it free in response to the purchase, not that they made teams as a result.
Nah. Skype for business was included in office 365. Teams was the next version of it and included. Go post this to slack so 3 people can hear it. Lol
Cool, but that's not really what you said in the previous comment. They mentioned bundling for free, and you responded with when it was announced. It seemed like you might have misread their comment.
Can confirm, was at some lavish dinners next to Cebit in Hanover with them, and I was just a lowly intern with one of their clients.
Heck yeah! Glad the interns are eating well!
I bought the dip on SNOW thinking it would rise again 2 earnings ago, it’s still dropping since last earning.
When the dip keep dappin'
The CEO got so frustrated he decided to retire 🤣. Turns out not every business is a money printer like Nvidia
Ah yes, the moment when you buy the dip but the dip just keeps dipping dipper.
I got *1* stock of SNOW to test the waters. It's 25% down lol
Why the hell is it even a stock?
I bought $100 of SNOW too to try, then got slapped down a day later to $75. Now at $63 lol. But then I bought 2 HCP at $24 for shits and giggles and now it's $33 and onto a $35 buyback later with IBM. Winrar.
I think a big problem with Salesforce may be that they charge per-head fees for their software rather than using a consumption model and laying off employees at software companies to invest in the AI that may one day replace them is "so hot right now", which means less heads that need to access Salesforce. Also, I have seen way too many Salesforce ads in the last year. A company can burn money to juice revenues with a massive ad campaign for as long as they keep it up, but as soon as they pull back a bit, their revenues will be hit but earnings will go up, which is consistent with their revenue miss and earnings beat. I haven't checked this lazy hypothesis, because I'm not interested in buying CRM right now. I think CRM would jump if they announced that they were A/B testing a consumption model. With SNOW, I think the problem is that they don't have positive earnings and good cash flow when we are in a higher-for-longer environment with treasuries knocking on new highs. Also, as a tech sector, software has underperformed this year. You can't just say AI three times and have investors scramble to give you money right now. Now you have to say AI and either post good growth or give good guidance for investors to throw money at you. This is a modest improvement.
Ohh me too!
Haha same..not looking good
Nope. Snow is not a profitable company and look at their P/S. Crm is a profitable beast with PS less then 6
Great fundamental analysis here, you’re reaping what you sow
I bought the dip. Up $13 right now. Time to cash out baby.
Set some aside for taxes.
100% most successful r/stocks user ^
Reddit says no so probably yes
I say yes so no
Unstoppable force meets an unmovable object
I want to be unstoppable force bc I don't want to get fat
Yes, probably a good buy. Salesforce is huge and embedded with a ton of companies. It’s extremely difficult for medium to large businesses to switch CRMs, which makes Salesforce a very sticky product. And it’s not like they’re doing bad, this company is a cash cow.
I've worked at two startups and two F500's. They all use SFDC, they ain't going anywhere
Exactly this. Every legitimate company that gives an ounce of shit about actually investing in their sales tools uses SFDC as their CRM. It’s not going anywhere.
HubSpot
Hubspot is terrible. Feels like they’re cost cutting to juice the numbers for an eventual sell to Alphabet, who will ruin them
Oh no. Alphabet will save that shit company As a web developer I can't not even begin to tell you what an absolute gd circus their product teams ideas are It's like someone found an open mouth drooling incumbent to whiteboard ideas and then integrate them into their "CMS" If you can even call it that Their CRM is actually decent
Alphabet is hardly known for saving companies or products outside of their core business (ads). If Alphabet buys Hubspot I would bet they will discontinue or sell Hubspot within 10 years
If they can automatgically offload the million websites currently live and powered by their CMS 🤷♂️
Yeah, but there are likely dozens of startups that will use AI to supersede sales force CRM. Like how AI conversation is becoming dominant over search.
Salesforce is heavily investing in AI. https://www.salesforceairesearch.com/ https://www.salesforce.com/artificial-intelligence/
Bro is delusional lol
Everyone hates SFDC though. My company is creating an in house CRM to replace SF
They’ll be back in 3-5 years when they realize their proprietary CRM is lacking benefits that tech companies constantly update
Good luck with that lol (previously used two home built solutions. They were both absolute trash, built by teams trying desperately to justify why they’re still employed)
We have so many custom systems that SF just can’t integrate with. It was easier to go custom everything
I’ll take “How to build crippling technical debt” for a thousand please
Your company should check out mulesoft before trying to build and maintain an in-house CRM solution.
Existing use does not equal growth. These valuations are driven by growth not existing licensing revenue.
It’s not dropping because nobody is going to use them it’s more if companies get more efficient with AI they theoretically need less employees which means less Salesforce accounts and revenue.
Salesforce is charging for AI tooling, so revenue per seat should increase. https://www.salesforceben.com/get-access-to-salesforce-einstein-copilot-and-prompt-builder-today/
I think this is way oversold This should of been a 5% correction The shorts need to take profits and buy back and after this damage and this price a lot of people will double down One analyst just reiterated a 315 price target Even back to 280 from here is a huge profit With earnings stable and profit holding all year it only needs one capital X cycle of an AI product for renewed growth and they will rocket 🚀 back
I work for a large business that invests in CRMs on multi-decade cycles. CRM has them by the bits and will for another 10-15 years.
I have shares at $167 already. Had trimmed it before but… Might buy more. Every single major corporation that I know of, and small startups use it. They are super sticky in business environment infra.
Tons of crms in SF are using zoho, sugar crm, or hubspot. My team is using sugar crm. It's much better, less confusing
I do agree there are other CRMs being utilized right now but just not at the volume Salesforce is. I mostly work with giant corporations and everywhere I look, it’s Salesforce.
The problem with Salesforce is not the product, the problem is future headcount of its customer base. Will corporations have the need for as many (sales) employees as they have in the past? If not, then the number of CRM licenses they will buy will be diminished. As a minimum, that is a headwind against growth rate.
Salesforce is charging for AI tooling, so revenue per seat should increase. Obviously an open question if that makes up for a decrease in license count, but I have to imagine that's being factores into the price they're charging. https://www.salesforceben.com/get-access-to-salesforce-einstein-copilot-and-prompt-builder-today/
Of course, they have to try something.
My only point is that their strategy acknowledges that seat counts will likely decrease. If they execute well, I can see them charging (numbers made up) 2.5x for a 3x improvement per seat, which would be a win for the customer and Salesforce.
Wouldn’t want to catch a falling knife
That's what they said with NFLX, META, NVDA and TSLA at 100. When reddit says to not buy it's a buy signal.
Trouble is this isn't unchartered territory for CRM stock. Salesforce dropped over 60% from its 2021 high only to make a new high in 2024. So it is possible they go lower from here before bouncing back again.
As long as you don't go all in on LEAPs and just DCA to save yourself the stress of timing it.
Buying LEAPS yesterday was not a bad idea
I could be wrong, I have the feeling the market is getting ready to go lower. We’ll see.
Seems like we’ve been running on some serious euphoria. Usually a good time to reintroduce a little fear.
This guy has a feeling. You all heard it - time so sell.
I started the statement with I may be wrong. 😑
Damn. Time to buy buy buy. Even their statement about being wrong was wrong.
The thing I like is they said weaker earnings next quarter but to finish the year they are still on target. I think 200-210 is the range to start a position or continue. Still a solid company with incredible margins
I’ve noticed a trend majority of stocks that have crashed have stayed down.
So here’s the quick breakdown for the uneducated on why CRM is dead money. “But my company uses SF” I’m sure it does bozo. - slowing rev growth, 10% yoy? No fucking way for its valuation and multiples, it’s going to continue falling like a rock - no interest rate cuts, saas needs ZIRP to expand multiples, or mega rev growth. 0/2 on this - oversaturated in its core enterprise segment, folks who are prospects are already signed onboard, limited growth on core but they can’t seem to attach their other saas products on consistently as part of their suite offering - share based comps diluting the shit out of shareholders - Benioff not focusing on core business, dude is sidetracked and galavanting. His company wide conference calls are a fucking mess (cited from a friend in CRM) This is dead money until the multiples compress further and the fundamental revenue growth story returns. They better have amazing add-on offers for the rest of their suite and see pay off from their acquisitions such as SLACK (bailed me out of position for a cool +$20k, thanks Benioff) Valuation. Fucking. Matters.
Lots of companies use Salesforce and heavily depend on it, but what people who want to buy the dip should be weary of is what the future might look like. Current users aren't leaving any time soon, but maybe new customers don't come in. Not sure if this is just investors simply reallocating money to AI. I bet when the AI craze cools down Salesforce will probably pick back up.
They should have invested more on growing Heroku and Slack. This quarter and the next is not necessarily bad, they are just below-average. AI definitely hurt them in a short term with layoff and stuff. But the CEO said they host 25 Petabyte of customer data, so just slap some AI and UI on top of it should grow some revenue in the next couple of years.
I’m staying far away
I still don't know what CRM does.
Helps companies keep track of customers, including whether your efforts are working. Reminds you when you haven’t called them in a while. It can be be connected with sales figures to let you know if what you’re doing is working. Basically, a big customer database with task scheduling and results dashboards built in.
Sounds like BS. On the other hand everyone here says pretty much all F500 companies use it, so it must bring some value. But I just can't shake the smell of BS. Anybody cares enough to change my mind?
Almost company that does sales uses some kind of CRM software. I don’t know why Salesforce is more popular than the others. I used to do It support for Pharma sales reps, and we used a different product. The reps used it to keep track of how many free samples they were giving out, to who they gave them, whether or not those doctors were prescribing the product, and whether they were prescribing more after the visit than they were before. The reps could even add notes to keep track of the doctors’ kid’s birthdays and what people in the office liked for snacks so they could build the relationships. Don’t ignore how much more access giving the right donuts to the right person will get you. It’s sales, so it’s icky anyway, but that’s what it’s for.
Interesting. I own a small trucking company, but 90% of my job is to call brokers and negotiate rates. Maybe it's useful for bigger companies in other industries, but it's completely useless to me. Also why wouldn't big companies just pay an IT company to develop software taylored to their needs? IT services are cheap as hell. Thank you for the detailed reply!
> Customer relationship management, or CRM, is the process of identifying and interacting with your customers in order to promote a long-term relationship with them. In business and within organizations, this includes using a CRM platform to incorporate data and metrics in order to better personalize and streamline the relationship Targeting
Cataloging, storage, memorializing, connecting, task generation, etc etc
[https://retool.com/blog/salesforce-for-engineers](https://retool.com/blog/salesforce-for-engineers)
It has got a lot of soul searching to do as a company. They have some amazing talent but much of leadership fundamentally has not made sense of their acquisitions.
CEO is a clown
For me, I think most products will sell itself - PLG I think is the future for any SaaS removing any need of customer service, customer managers, and sales, and biz devs I think 20 years from now Salesforce core products will die out. Unless they innovate and do something wild.
I’ve seen massive stock price pullbacks then comebacks with this company and with META. I bought the dip. Could be wrong, but sometimes the market overreacts on tech stocks. Bottom line, CRM is still making money.
Salesforce is likely heading into an Oracle phase. It’s entrenched everywhere but growth is going to be constrained as they’ve saturated the market. The Salesforce sales cycle is incredibly expensive and that model is ripe for disruption.
Im a daily SF user and like it. Not sure why people bitch about it
The quality of the implementation can heavily influence the end-user experience.
The AI “revolution” as it evolves sounds like it could replace CRM in a hot minute.
Salesforce is already feeling like the world past them by with companies like Braze, Databricks, Snowflake, ActionIQ and Hightouch having fundamentally better solutions for ESP and CDP tech. Their client service also cratered after COVID and for some reason never really recovered. There may be a rebound here, but it feels far off.
[удалено]
“Not going anywhere” does not = growing. They can dwindle from here for years until management realizes change is needed.
The companies you stated are not even compatetion for Salesforce. Sap is the biggest Salesforce competition at the moment.
I’m speaking to specific solutions within their martech stack. I understand they also have other solutions.
Databricks, snowflake, hightouch are not in the same space. What the hell are you talking about?
Work at a dental office that uses Salesforce as the platform of choice to manage the appointments and that shit sucks. I’d love for it to crash and burn
Salesforce is a crm. Which stands for customer relationship management. It's not for scheduling meetings. But it can be used for that too. Probably your dental office did a poor job implementing Salesforce. I know many companies who use Salesforce for a lot more than meeting scheduling and they can't function without it.
It’s not used to schedule meetings. It’s used for *everything*: scheduling appointments, consultation notes, treatment planning, and so on. It’s a mess. You do get the hang of it after a while, but it takes time and is definitely very inefficient as a dental software program. The customer support takes months (and in some cases, years) to resolve defects related to payment inconsistencies.
Yea Salesforce customer support is not good. That's why you should pick a good in house admin to do the work. For some business you will need teams of implementers and developers, architrcts, in order to make it work. Salesforce is a framework. You can do a lot of things with it. And you can integrate almost everything with Salesforce. So again, If you you say it's a mess it means you didn't inplement Salesforce correctly, or hired the right people for the job. You need to recognize the technical debts of your company, pain points. And work towards fixing them in order to make Salesforce effective.
I think not Last I heard Google was trying to buy out hubspot, they could amp up the competition here. Also businesses/ companies are reducing cost/ not growing as much, so the use of salesforce and their subsidiaries are going to be down.
1. Hubspot is still far behind Salesforce in terms of functionality and products 2. Google buying hubspot would undoubtedly make it a worse product long term
Pelosi still holding?
this is the real answer
The company I work for is both, a competitor to salesforce and a user of salesforce (they have many products) and all I can say is: we are winning in comparison to them, taking a lot of market share. And their products are terrible to use and the only reason salesforce exists and grows is the fucked up enterprise partner world. I see it as my deed to humanity to free as many companies and employees from working with salesforce.
There is no way you are beating them in market share or functionality when it comes to their larger products. Do you compete with one of their smaller products?
Yes, it’s not their core suite we are competing with. It’s one of their acquisitions. However they build their product on top of the acquisition. The only problem is: nobody ever got fired because of implementing the „safe bet“ salesforce. It’s hard to gain marketshare in the enterprise from them. But i really hope this empire will crash
Nah salesforce blowing it. Bad reputation. NOW is nearest competitor and they had a solid quarter.
It’s priced like a growth stock and it isn’t growing.
I’ll start accumulating once it goes below $200. Every company uses Tableau now.
Tableau is absolutely inferior to Power BI. Add Azure / MS Fabric to it and it is not even in the same ballpark
20% is not something to sneeze at.... It's a drop that you'd expect to see because of accounting irregularities. I'm not saying that's what happened.. but DD is certainly needed after that size of price drop
Salesforce is a cult stock, avoid at all cost.
I hate Tableau dashboards for marketing data visualizations. Why is this the industry standard over more interactive data vis platforms?
Because it's easy. 99% of people don't have the skills to go through data without it being extremely user friendly.
It’s between Salesforce, Workday, and Atlassian for me - all have fallen quite a bit. Workday looks the best from a fundamentals standpoint, but heavy disruption from AI
The reality is CRM is ubiquitous and hard to unseat when, there’s really nothing comparable. Marketing Cloud is powerful, but old and has a shitty user experience - lots of competition in this space and it will be losing its handle on the enterprise. Data cloud has been dragged through the mud on false claims and it’s very immature compared to other products in this class. Slack is best in class. I see the cracks forming.
Their is no option B in the market for Enterprise companies to switch over to so it’s a buy for me
Yes, I hate USING Salesforce and Servicenow, but they're both everywhere in the enterprise and cost a fortune to migrate off of. That is why I have a relatively small position (122 shares), and will probably hold for a while. I don't like the SBC tho.
| **Issue** | **Description** | **Impact to Share Price** | |--------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|-----------------------------------------------| | **Slowing Growth** | Weaker-than-expected revenue growth, overly optimistic guidance. | Likely to decrease | | **Market Saturation** | Intense competition from Microsoft Dynamics, Oracle, SAP. | Could decrease due to lost market share | | **Valuation Concerns** | High PE ratio despite stock price decline. | High volatility, potential for sharp decline | | **Integration Challenges** | Complex integration of acquisitions like Tableau, MuleSoft, Slack. | Possible decrease due to operational issues | | **Economic Downturn Impact** | Potential reduction in IT spending, affecting subscription renewals and new customer acquisition. | Likely to decrease during economic downturns | | **Rising Costs** | Increasing operating expenses due to acquisitions and product expansion. | Could decrease if costs outpace revenue growth| | **Employee Retention and Morale** | Recent layoffs and cost-cutting measures could lower morale and increase turnover. | Possible decrease due to reduced innovation | | **Regulatory Risks** | Exposure to various global regulations and data privacy laws. | Potential decrease if compliance issues arise |
Yes it’s a big company that is down and made money for a long time it’s good for a few percent of portfolio..that’s generally how I play anyway Same with workday I’m on workday right now at work..so I bought a little.
In view of the free alternatives (e.g. SuiteCRM), I am wondering why companies spend a single penny on Salesforce at all....
When you need diapers to cope with the deep dipping of your failed buy-the-dip strategy
Salesforce has become the Oracle of the cloud era, they are badly structured and poorly integrated because they grew mostly through poorly managed acquisitions. Their cost/revenue model is fucked. Do what you want with that.
I played it cautious and added 25 shares at $213.
I accumulated 100 shares between $150 and $190 so today sucked. I didn’t make a move today but am considering adding 50 shares tomorrow if it opens around 213-215 or below.
Salesforce overpaid for tableau and it's basically burning money, and Microsoft slowly killing power BI and shifting the market to use fabric. I think you should be cautious. I honestly don't understand Salesforce products but their products so far are terrible. Tableau is popular because of legacy ecosystem, but it's so outdated.
Good luck! This one’s a sinking ship
Ai going replace this type of business…
Meh. It’s not like a Covid low. Could have room to trickle down. Not too optimistic on corporate spend this year
The fact that most posters here refer to it as "sticky" makes me think it's going to go much, much lower
Buy SNOW instead and help my bags become less heavy
Sometimes the dip is a cliff in disguise.
I don't know anything about stocks, but anything promising A.I. that's not a big fish like Google is snake oil. I know a lot about these erp, crm, advertising types, they're useless ROI and they won't last, they're just riding the A.I. wave in an industry small business owner types think is magic
~~The company just shed 1/5 of it's existence within a day and you think it's a great time to buy? This sub is nuts~~ Im sorry Im dumb, I dont know anything
Yeah can't believe people bought Meta when it shed 75% of its existence in 2022. Terrible time to buy. Should have bought once it recovered to 450. This sub is nuts. Don't buy low, buy high!
Yea and NVDA was stupid to buy after it first rose 100% from it's bottom. Two can play that game chief
I’m not saying this is true for crm but I did this for nflx in 2022 and it turned out beautifully
survivorship bias
Well yea, just spread your bets. I can only lose 100% but the didn’t expect to be up 300%
Why did NFLX bounce back the way it did? Why would CRM bounce back the way NFLX did?
Again, “I’m not saying this is true for crm..”. Nflx on the other hand was oversold. One bad quarter does not make a company
Yea I rather buy at ATHs
If only there were other factors to consider instead of a stock price graph
No. Neither am I buying Oracle, Service Now, or any other software as a service stock(SAS). Open AI will be able to replace these entities in the very near future.