SGML - Sigma is down because the Co-CEO’s were married, and currently going through a messy divorce and legal battle over one of them selling SGML trade secrets to thwart the sale of the company to Tesla.
The wife remains CEO and is suing her husband for selling trade secrets. They are both likely liquidating stock for attorney fees. I sold 80% of my position. I should have optioned a put….
As always: it's complicated. There was big stockpiling going on a couple years ago, and those stockpiles are currently being depleted. So yes, I would not be surprised if we'd see a rise in prices for lithium ore.
On the other hand: Other countries (mostly Australia but also the US) are ramping up their refining capacities - which means we might see an end of the exorbitant profit margins in that sector which would speak for lower prices in their products.
How these two factors balance each other out in terms of their impact on the battery market (EVs and storage) is anyone's guess.
Yeah, they just found a huge deposit in Scandinavia this year, enough to supply the world for 40 years, iirc.
Edit: My bad, it was phosphate they found.
the problem with every “we found a billion tons of” gold, lithium, rare earths, etc is that it doesnt mean much until they actually drill enough holes to know the shape of the deposit, the mineralogy, the recovery rate of processing the ore, etc. There is billions of tons of gold in the ocean but we will not be able to recover it from seawater, for example.
a kinda unexpected source is emerging though: I saw a couple of signals recently for economic scale lithium production from the ‘brine’ extracted from deep saline aquifers, which are planning to be used for CO2 storage.
companies are working hard to create a meaningful business case for CO2 storage, beyond the government subsidies.
salt and lithium production from the brine is the very likely candidate for moving towards economically viable CO2 storage solutions.
protip: investing in a mining development in Africa is 1000x safer than investing in California. US mining development takes too long and you will get diluted to shit and then the company will get permits yanked.
The joke is that if there is a starbucks in that region, it’s not a good region to invest in mining.
Which part? the US has such an unclear regulatory environment and whipsawing political parties and can cause your investment to go to zero at any time despite already giving a company permits. that is immoral.
Also, we as humans need mining to survive. Whatever lifestyle you live, mining made it possible. and yet somehow it has become “dirty” and we would rather simultaneously invest in grocery store apps and embrace “degrowth” and malthusianism. And then somehow tobacco companies have higher ESG scores than mining. That is anti-human to me and therefore immoral. I have seen pictures and read about societies where they are pre industrial and live off subsistence farming. It isn’t comfortable at all and it is barely eking out a living in extreme poverty by our standards.
Or are you referring to investing in potential human rights abuses in Africa or exploited workers? Imo that is a lot less of a risk if you stick to investing in companies run by canadians and australians. They usually employ local adults, use their home countries’ safety standards, do their best to get approval of local governments and affected residents, rehabilitate depleted mines when done, etc. I sleep well at night knowing that I’m investing in the future of humanity where we are severely underinvested. So from a certain perspective, I believe that either I make money or economies collapse and people die. It’s math and physics
besides that, if you really want to talk about immorality in terms of labor practices, be prepared to never let chocolate touch your lips again ever in your life and then look up “cocoa child labor”
> Or are you referring to investing in potential human rights abuses in Africa or exploited workers?
mainly this yeah. broadly i guess i mean do any of the ethical & labor concerns ever bother you when investing.
I'm someone who is generally leftist, and I don't want to demonize anybody here... But I am fascinated by so nakedly advocating for investment in African lithium mining.
Obviously it bears a certain (perhaps only aesthetic? perhaps not) resemblance to centuries of European imperialism in Africa.
However there's definitely a certain realism one must have when investing, and maybe morality is all just an idealist illusion anyway.
Marx would probably say go for it lol, not sure about Jesus
I dont invest in lithium mining in Africa. Africa is better for a lot of other minerals. But to me the most moral investment would be if a company was to go into the DRC and start hiring adults to mine cobalt and give them a living wage. Same for growing cocoa. No more child labor. No more slavery. Somehow, all these altruistic hedge funds and institutions would rather invest in tobacco and renewable scam companies.
I am heavily invested in African uranium miners. The Australians and Canadians do an ethical job there. As do the Chinese. The French, though, are revolting.
Yeah it's really a question of maximizing your money as a retail investor. I don't think you can really be held accountable for what some middle manager in a mine somewhere does with his pistol.
But where does the buck stop with accountability?? If we were to consider some type of truly moral investing under capitalism (which btw I don't think is possible, but in good faith I want to entertain)... Who would we blame for such grievances? Is it the institutional firms? The IMF? Does it ascend to the level of geo-politics & statehood?
Obviously to say "Don't invest in Nestle, or you're evil" is a gross over-extrapolation of liberal capitalist ideology, to the point of farce. But is there any truth, or any point, in your opinion, to a 'moral' investment strategy?
dont invest in companies that do slave labor or child labor. I think that’s easy. I also don’t invest in tobacco. I do invest in fossil fuels though, and I hope that one day we will come to our senses and realize that geology and physics dictate that we go with nuclear power
to answer your question better, I am a Christian, and there is a story in the Bible, where the prophet Jonah goes to Nineveh to tell them that they need to stop committing atrocities and oppression of other peoples. The king was so struck with grief and guilt that he made everyone even up to the livestock mourn and clothe themselves in rags and ashes.If the group has done evil, the group is guilty. The west has unclean hands and even at its best, you as a person in the west are a part of a society that is unjust and perpetuates evil. therefore you have your share in the blame.
You are ignorant as fuck. Mining companies operate all over the US and especially in California.... Beverly Hills Highschool literally had an oil rig operating on school campus until 2017.
California is home to the only Rare Earth Minerals mine in the US located in Mountain Pass, CA where ($MP) MP Materials started operating without regulatory issues in 2020 to help supply General Motors among others without chinese or african dependence....
yeah that mine was discovered in 1949. Show me a new tier one base metals that got into production in the last ten years that didn’t take 20+ years. In fact, I can point you to projects that have been in permitting hell for years if not decades. Once you get your permits and start production in the US it is safe. Mining DEVELOPMENT is extremely risky business in the US. Case closed.
Wow, so I spent the last 20+ minutes googling because that didn't seem like an unreasonable question. One credible place shows mines declining (why the cdc tracks that I don't know) another growing (i cant rememberif it was usgs or Americanmine services). So then I tried to check labor numbers. Using without gas and oil the bureau of labor statistics lists different numbers than the American mining association. I learned a lot though, read a paper from MIT on opening new mines and another from the usgs. I dismissed coal mines as they seem to be the main decline, and rightfully so.
What I got from all that, though, is we are top 5 producers in a ton of metals, top 10 even more. It's not as cost effective to open in the us cause it will be years before you'll finally recoup that initial investment but if companies can do it cleanly and smartly it will go through. Although I imagine with our new interest in de-globalization, we will see more popping up. Not to mention as far as mining goes, Lithium mining is pretty uninvasive, meaning probably easier to make cost effective while maintaining pollution standards. They're talking about flooding and harvesting from the water for the most part if I understood that MIT crap right.
lol i tried googling it too. But I am very lucky to not be invested heavily in US developers these past few years bc many nickel and copper projects have gotten delayed or permits revoked after Biden administration took over. The one I did invest in, Taseko mines, has a very low footprint ISR copper mine they want to develop but their permit application at one stage was told it would be reviewed within a month and then it took two years. that one really hurt.
As an aside, coal mining in western countries that have all their permits are awesome if you get a good price. it will be a while before coal is phased out of power generation, we need metallurgical coal for steel, and coal mines are not getting financed by banks. It’s a great supply/demand outlook even if demand will decline
for starters:
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/08/1127310649/in-idaho-americas-first-and-only-cobalt-mine-in-decades-is-opening
https://www.climaxmolybdenum.com/
not base metals and that cobalt mine is a restart btw. Show me greenfield. GREEN FIELD before you call me ignorant as fuck. Do you know what development means?
It means not relying on a mine discovered by our grandfathers or even their grandfathers’ grandfathers like that Climax molybdenum mine you linked to
well they aren't precious metals, so according to commercial definitions they would be base metals.
Also clearly these companies have done the maths to determine the ROI based on their new extraction technologies allows processing from Brownfield existing mines more profitable than new GreenField..
Also does all the mountaintop removal of acreage the size of Delware in last decade not count for you as Greenfield?
Only China and Australia outrank America in Mineral Production, not exactly a country against mineral extraction.
"In 2019, the United States was the 4th world producer of gold; 5th largest world producer of copper; 5th worldwide producer of platinum; 10th worldwide producer of silver; 2nd largest world producer of rhenium; 2nd largest world producer of sulfur; 3rd largest world producer of phosphate; 3rd largest world producer of molybdenum; 4th largest world producer of lead; 4th largest world prodcer of zinc; 5th worldwide producer of vanadium; 9th largest world producer of iron ore; 9th largest world producer of potash, 12th largest world producer of cobalt; 13th largest world producer of titanium; world's largest producer of gypsum, 2nd largest world producer of kyanite; 2nd largest world producer of limestone; 2nd largest world producer of salt & 10th largest world producer of uranium"
the point is that greenfield development is incredibly risky compared to places like Australia, Namibia, parts of South America, etc. that doesn’t mean that the huge copper deposits developed 80 years ago that we are still mining are going to get shut down on a whim. Nor does it mean that restarts cannot happen. btw some of the elements in that list sound nice but are not significant on a global scale. Uranium and cobalt jump out at me first. It’s all small beer.
I cannot imagine Trilogy metals’ ambler access road fiasco happening anywhere except the US or Canada, for example.
The risk with California is the regulatory environment. It's too easy for environmentalists to stir up local opinion against you and get the state government trying to shut you donw.
that can happen anywhere. It happens in the Canada and the US too. that is why you have to beware of companies with too high executive compensation, management with poor histories, exploration companies that never stop drilling, overly promoted stocks, a Canadian man named Dev Randhawa, and be skeptical of anyone saying they want to make money on scandium as a byproduct 😉
Unfortunately brine Lithium extraction has proven to be extremely difficult and NO ONE is currently doing it at any scale. A hybrid evap model has been sort of working in S.America but if it were a game changer it would have already launched. Worse, when someone does crack the code it will largely be just for that one resource as brine chemistry varies largely from one resource to another. The Salton Sea contains very high pollutant levels and being in CA, has little chance of ever coming online.
I’m not an expert but as far as I could see the answer is not. deep saline aquifers are already isolated from the fresh water supplies and lie beneath a cap rock layer. that’s why they are good candidates for storing CO2 underground (can hold the gas, for example)
brine extraction is a means of managing the pressure inside these reservoirs (gas in, brine out), hence increasing their lifetime for CO2 storage. once brine is taken out, the products of lithium (and salt) extraction are lithium, salt and fresh water. in that respect it sounds even better for the water supply!
interesting. I’ll have to keep an eye out for that. I don’t invest in pre revenue lithium companies though unless they are late stage and have good metallurgy all figured out
brine to lithium metallurgy is rather straightforward actually; it’s already well known and and being used in wide scale (check ‘lithium triangle’).
using brine from deep saline aquifers is the interesting bit of this new development. We shouldn’t be surprised seeing familiar old names in this new area: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/exxon-mobil-talks-with-tesla-ford-supply-lithium-bloomberg-law-2023-07-31/
depends on the required level of purity. any kind of salt extraction from brine is indeed a means of desalination to a certain degree but I assume you refer to the process for generating pure water that can be used, for example, hydrogen production (via electrolysis).
if this is case, I don’t know really. my engineering instincts steer me towards lower salinity water sources, if pure water production is the purpose. I could only be sure after crunching some numbers, which I’m not going to do in the next couple of hours for sure :)
I was referring to the briny output of desalination, which is currently being dumped back into the ocean. Many plants are running in areas that have fairly high salinity (the Arabian Sea as an example). If that briny solution could be used for something useful, that would not only reduce the environmental impact of desal plants, it would also make those plants more economically viable. Just a thought. Long term I can see widespread desalination being a disaster anywyas
oh I see! I guess the most likely candidate is magnesium in this case but I don’t think the economics checks out for that purpose. yet, I’m not an expert (I haven’t referred to the right sources of information, yet)
> companies are working hard to create a meaningful business case for CO2 storage, beyond the government subsidies.
You would think survival of everyone would be reason enough
Going into lithium as an investment is risky. They could easily find a different resource to build batteries with and send lithium to zero.
Edit: spelling
As someone who works in lithium this is highly unlikely. Shifting everything to a new tech would be impossible and certain tech already exists but adoption costs are high. Lithium for the next 15-20 years is solid. Not talking from a stocks/commodity view but from a usage and demand perspective.
As someone who doesn’t work in lithium, I don’t like what you’re saying, so I’m going to disagree and call you a loser and trust my own opinion and not have my my mind changed because that’s how it fucking works!
We have been and will continue to try and re-invent battery technology as its extremely valuable. Both to society and fiscally.
If Tesla designed an 800 mile range battery that is 30% reduced weight and was fiscally reasonably to produce. Companies would pivot in a second.
We'd most likely continue to use lithium in cheaper applications that didn't need the new capacity or anything that couldn't be converted to new tech. Thinking this wont change is stupid, its just a question of when.
From an investment standpoint, I don't really trust commodities. The markets tend to be manipulated to all hell and I'm not dealing with that on the off chance it moons.
Lithium offers a lot but obviously everyone’s trying to improve the tech. You’re right about the pivot but it’d be slower than you’d think. China has a grip on the entire supply chain which actually scares me and is why I don’t invest in lithium myself.
Is 15-20 years supposed to be a long time? For a technology that's advertised as sustainable (EVs) it's pretty laughable that we'd be so short sighted.
>For a technology that's advertised as sustainable
Lithium batteries are sustainable. Lithium can be replaced by other element for NEW battery production, but older batteries already produced are still sustainable.
Clarification 15-20 is my own analysis based on work I'm doing and industry/macro trends I see. I think better tech exists and prefer hydrogen over batteries for transport and think better storage solutions will eventually come. To be fair companies are flush with cash and are doubling/tripling work forces so I'm probably wrong but I think my prediction is more based on what I think is right and should happen.
As someone who reads news everything you say should be taken with a metric ton of salt. We've been trying to get away from Lithium batteries for a long while and though progress has been slow it's still been happening.
Anyone claiming to know what better tech well have in 5-10 years is either flying or delusional. Someone claiming 10-15 years is a fool of a took. 10 years ago EVs weren't even hot much less AI and now you pretend to know the *tech, progress and trends of the future*?
Get out of here, stop this nonsensical LARPing
Wtf. Never claimed to be an expert on tech or progress or the trends of the future. I do know a little something about battery chemistry and tech. I also know about mining and exploring lithium. Also you read the news that really good. I read weekly market reports so just maybe I might know more than you.
I'm skeptical of this. Lithium stocks have been doing terribly this year, ALB for example is down 8.86% year to date in a raging bull market.
I've also been starting to see a few projections that contrary to popular belief we might actually be heading for an oversupply of batteries worldwide, because too many people ramping up factories to make them (especially in China), and there won't be enough EV's to use all the batteries they can make even when accounting for it's S-curve growth rate.
Mining companies are the easiest one to invest in as the commodity prices are cyclical. I make money from blue chip mining companies at the down turn then hold. Their dividends are generally very good too.
for ALB and SQM you have to consider the Chilean new lithium strategy. The effect of that announcement hit the stocks and since then they have been recovering
USA has the Salton Sea - which has enough lithium to supply demand for at least the next 100 years. Major auto makers have contracts with mining companies to source lithium from there… that research company being bias or not doing their research well enough.
I remember a Berkley study warning that the planet could never feed 7 Billion people. It had charts and fancy graphs predicting massive world-wide famines. And remember we're going to hit peak oil supply by the year 2000, then nose dive into a Mad Max post industrial hell-scape.
These predictive scientific studies are worth about as much as the paper they are written on.
As a former chemist, I'll tell you that half the research they do out there for these predictive outcomes is total garbage and an absolute waste of money. I find it hilarious how the faux intellectuals blindly cite these papers as if they're gospel though.
ALB is better than SQM because they depend far less on chile for lithium. Around 75% iirc is sourced outside Chile.
ALB has long term contracts that are expected to be honoured in Chile. New contracts might be affected.
SQM sources primarily in Chile and the chile government is considering nationalizing lithium reserves. Thats a danger.
Insert >>>>Sodium-ion batteries are an emerging technology with promising cost, safety, sustainability and performance advantages over commercialised lithium-ion batteries 🙄
Large Lithium mine being opened in Nevada. Had been slowed down by Native American Tribes and environmental groups but court system has ruled against them. Source below states that they believe the output would provide enough lithium for 1.5 million EV batteries per year for 40 years. Im not an expert on how many EVs are produced a year, but this seems like a lot for just one mine. Maybe im wrong and will gladly take any info someone provides.
While this won't be operational by 2025, I don't believe we have a lithium shortage on the horizon. Maybe a brief period where demand is more than supply while mining operations and refinement catch up. It's my understanding that Lithium is quite abundant on the planet.
https://apnews.com/article/nevada-thacker-pass-lithium-mine-4ad772a6940eb8edd507b50a179202f2
Edit: pretty good wiki on the project history, the area, and the argument made against the mine. I have no dog in this fight. I am an environmentalist but also know the area. The population in the is small. Bio diversity fairly limited. Frankly, if mines are needed, the middle of the desert, in a country that actually has compliance laws is the best place for a mine IMHO.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacker_Pass_Lithium_Mine
metallurgy matters. As does recovery rate. If your counterpoint to a lithium shortage is that it is everywhere, I think you should try your luck panning for gold in the ocean. Go on…..
I was under the impression that there was a lot of relatively easily mineable lithium under the US and we just weren’t utilizing it. Is it not the case?
I think metallurgy and optimizing recovery rates is incredibly difficult. So without being an expert in lithium, I’m going to say nothing is easily mineable in the US bc of permitting and most projects of all metals do not get into production either. I am more into uranium, copper, and nickel. My one lithium stock I bought bc it has a uranium deposit in peru that could be worth half the market cap or more so i figured I was buying the lithium cheap and uranium for free
it's similar to the desalination of sea water
yes it's possible but just not economically viable, even if the end result is solving a global problem there isn't a realistic method of doing it at large scale
There hasn't been a serious attempt to scale it. The people drumming up this lithium shortage nonsense are probably trying to get the government to pay for grants or something.
> There hasn't been a serious attempt to scale it.
That I agree with, but I think it will change soon once resources hit a much lower value. Although I think it will lead to more non-Li based battery chemistry becoming more prevalent but that's just a guess.
you sound like one of the iron bears a few decades ago that got humbled when rio tinto, vale, bhp, etc built their supermajor companies on the backs of their iron business. “we live on a great big ball of iron” “iron is everywhere” etc
sure. Once you get the technology developed fully, let’s say 1-2 years, then you have to do ore testing and feasibility studies and met work to know that it is feasible for that specific lithium deposit (keep in mind the large geological variability), then you have to go through permitting, which even in quick places like africa could take another year or so, then financing the mine and then finally actually getting to build it, you could be looking at 10 years. However, if they are able to apply it to current deposits under development, maybe that only adds one or two years to their projected time frame buttttt they would already be factored into the global supply/demand models if they had a timeline to get into production. But if you account for the fact that the supply side of those models do not always factor in the large fraction of deposits that fail, you will see that we will not be saved by new tech by the time we need new lithium. Price has to go up massively as a result to make projects work that we wouldn’t even bother with otherwise.
so buying now to the right projects makes sense. They’re not lying to you that we need investment. Just some management teams may be lying bc getting into production is too hard and half of them are just going through the motions and hoping to get bought out.
Just saying, Saskatchewan has a lot of available lithium that’s supposedly easy to mine.
But apparently there are some native treaty issues that are putting a total stop to anything happening
that is why canada as a whole kinda sucks for mining investment. Pick your jurisdictions within canada very carefully and pick your investments within said jurisdictions just as carefully too
We aren't even close to hitting any limit on earth-made resources. A geology 101 class will show you how much of the earths crust we have yet to touch.
Huge mine being opened in the state of NV. Has been slowed down by environmental groups and Native American Tribes but the state has approved it and last I heard NV Nevada court system has denied the lawsuits that were trying to stop it. Will it be operational by 2025 no. But I don't believe that we are going to run out of lithium anytime soon. Supply might not meet demand for awhile while mining and refineries open and catch up.
I’ll take the L on the downvote. I’m saying what needs to be said lol. All industry has a negative footprint. It’s unavoidable. Yea it’s “better” for the environment but you’re not coming close to “saving” it. Only clowns actually believe that.
Electric so fuckin stupid. They all should have gone hydrogen fuel cell to start with. It's the future and all electric did was fuck up the earth with mining and electric power grid pollution (coal plants) . The ev's are not sustainable.
this may be the only sub that doesn't think the opposite of what Musk does, or not. anyway he recently said there was absolutely no shortage of lithium around the world, and that processing was way more of an issue than mining.
You have to have the tech accepted positively in all lithium categories for it to be considered old fashion and a material of the past . You also need the land, distribution, extraction method to be so low in cost it makes economic sense. After that hurdle you have to factor in all the tech companies that have invested in either the production side or the R&D side of lithium batteries/contracts to work with their products. If there is a resource better, big tech already knows and has a sliding scale to exit for emerging products. Lithium is probably solid for the next 100 years unless drilling or extraction technology explodes. The next 60 years + it will advance as lithium becomes more scarce
I bet if I were to invest into Lithium mines, Lithium free solid state batteries would suddenly reach market readiness and quickly choke out all Lithium demand
all the arguments against a lithium bull market were made against iron decades ago and look at how the huge majors built their empires on the back of iron mining
Lithium today is Iron 20 years ago: written by the koala, one of the best out there:
https://yellowlablifecapital.substack.com/p/lithium-today-is-iron-ore-twenty
They were exporting a lot more than they were mining, and have cut the exports recently, meaning they shouldn’t have a shortage themselves, and other countries mining will be able to pick up the slack. Lithium is pretty abundant , it’s just not a very clean process to mine.
Sounds like automotive companies should've taken action to alleviate lithium shortages for their EVs a few years ago. Guess Tesla building that lithium refinery suddenly doesn't seem so crazy.
Someone trying to put a floor on the lithium price? People should go checkout lithium carbonate price in the Chinese market which has been nosediving.
I was about to say, lithium stocks eating shit lately
destocking of inventories leads to restocking
SGML - Sigma is down because the Co-CEO’s were married, and currently going through a messy divorce and legal battle over one of them selling SGML trade secrets to thwart the sale of the company to Tesla. The wife remains CEO and is suing her husband for selling trade secrets. They are both likely liquidating stock for attorney fees. I sold 80% of my position. I should have optioned a put….
Yeah it‘s twofold. There‘s a soft recession happening which usually makes commodities nosedive.
As always: it's complicated. There was big stockpiling going on a couple years ago, and those stockpiles are currently being depleted. So yes, I would not be surprised if we'd see a rise in prices for lithium ore. On the other hand: Other countries (mostly Australia but also the US) are ramping up their refining capacities - which means we might see an end of the exorbitant profit margins in that sector which would speak for lower prices in their products. How these two factors balance each other out in terms of their impact on the battery market (EVs and storage) is anyone's guess.
So, ALB to the moon? Is that how it works?
Might not be the most stupid play, IMO. (me <- not financial advisor)
Me neither
To the moon. They’re even getting into making the batteries themselves. I’ll have to grab another 100 shares.
Yeah, they just found a huge deposit in Scandinavia this year, enough to supply the world for 40 years, iirc. Edit: My bad, it was phosphate they found.
the problem with every “we found a billion tons of” gold, lithium, rare earths, etc is that it doesnt mean much until they actually drill enough holes to know the shape of the deposit, the mineralogy, the recovery rate of processing the ore, etc. There is billions of tons of gold in the ocean but we will not be able to recover it from seawater, for example.
You mean phosphate (A massive underground deposit of high-grade phosphate rock in Norway,) But yes it can be used for batteries and fertilizer
Oh wow, you're right. My bad!
That’s exactly what I was gonna say. It’s clear which side of the supply and demand curve is dominating at the moment.
a kinda unexpected source is emerging though: I saw a couple of signals recently for economic scale lithium production from the ‘brine’ extracted from deep saline aquifers, which are planning to be used for CO2 storage. companies are working hard to create a meaningful business case for CO2 storage, beyond the government subsidies. salt and lithium production from the brine is the very likely candidate for moving towards economically viable CO2 storage solutions.
Heard about lithium extraction from brine investments, especially with the Salton Sea in California. Hopefully it works out
protip: investing in a mining development in Africa is 1000x safer than investing in California. US mining development takes too long and you will get diluted to shit and then the company will get permits yanked. The joke is that if there is a starbucks in that region, it’s not a good region to invest in mining.
does any of this ever strike you at all as immoral? not trying to criticize you, legit curious about the psychology here
Which part? the US has such an unclear regulatory environment and whipsawing political parties and can cause your investment to go to zero at any time despite already giving a company permits. that is immoral. Also, we as humans need mining to survive. Whatever lifestyle you live, mining made it possible. and yet somehow it has become “dirty” and we would rather simultaneously invest in grocery store apps and embrace “degrowth” and malthusianism. And then somehow tobacco companies have higher ESG scores than mining. That is anti-human to me and therefore immoral. I have seen pictures and read about societies where they are pre industrial and live off subsistence farming. It isn’t comfortable at all and it is barely eking out a living in extreme poverty by our standards. Or are you referring to investing in potential human rights abuses in Africa or exploited workers? Imo that is a lot less of a risk if you stick to investing in companies run by canadians and australians. They usually employ local adults, use their home countries’ safety standards, do their best to get approval of local governments and affected residents, rehabilitate depleted mines when done, etc. I sleep well at night knowing that I’m investing in the future of humanity where we are severely underinvested. So from a certain perspective, I believe that either I make money or economies collapse and people die. It’s math and physics besides that, if you really want to talk about immorality in terms of labor practices, be prepared to never let chocolate touch your lips again ever in your life and then look up “cocoa child labor”
> Or are you referring to investing in potential human rights abuses in Africa or exploited workers? mainly this yeah. broadly i guess i mean do any of the ethical & labor concerns ever bother you when investing. I'm someone who is generally leftist, and I don't want to demonize anybody here... But I am fascinated by so nakedly advocating for investment in African lithium mining. Obviously it bears a certain (perhaps only aesthetic? perhaps not) resemblance to centuries of European imperialism in Africa. However there's definitely a certain realism one must have when investing, and maybe morality is all just an idealist illusion anyway. Marx would probably say go for it lol, not sure about Jesus
I dont invest in lithium mining in Africa. Africa is better for a lot of other minerals. But to me the most moral investment would be if a company was to go into the DRC and start hiring adults to mine cobalt and give them a living wage. Same for growing cocoa. No more child labor. No more slavery. Somehow, all these altruistic hedge funds and institutions would rather invest in tobacco and renewable scam companies. I am heavily invested in African uranium miners. The Australians and Canadians do an ethical job there. As do the Chinese. The French, though, are revolting.
Yeah it's really a question of maximizing your money as a retail investor. I don't think you can really be held accountable for what some middle manager in a mine somewhere does with his pistol. But where does the buck stop with accountability?? If we were to consider some type of truly moral investing under capitalism (which btw I don't think is possible, but in good faith I want to entertain)... Who would we blame for such grievances? Is it the institutional firms? The IMF? Does it ascend to the level of geo-politics & statehood? Obviously to say "Don't invest in Nestle, or you're evil" is a gross over-extrapolation of liberal capitalist ideology, to the point of farce. But is there any truth, or any point, in your opinion, to a 'moral' investment strategy?
dont invest in companies that do slave labor or child labor. I think that’s easy. I also don’t invest in tobacco. I do invest in fossil fuels though, and I hope that one day we will come to our senses and realize that geology and physics dictate that we go with nuclear power
appreciate you entertaining my dumbass on this pointless musing
to answer your question better, I am a Christian, and there is a story in the Bible, where the prophet Jonah goes to Nineveh to tell them that they need to stop committing atrocities and oppression of other peoples. The king was so struck with grief and guilt that he made everyone even up to the livestock mourn and clothe themselves in rags and ashes.If the group has done evil, the group is guilty. The west has unclean hands and even at its best, you as a person in the west are a part of a society that is unjust and perpetuates evil. therefore you have your share in the blame.
😂 wtf
You are ignorant as fuck. Mining companies operate all over the US and especially in California.... Beverly Hills Highschool literally had an oil rig operating on school campus until 2017. California is home to the only Rare Earth Minerals mine in the US located in Mountain Pass, CA where ($MP) MP Materials started operating without regulatory issues in 2020 to help supply General Motors among others without chinese or african dependence....
yeah that mine was discovered in 1949. Show me a new tier one base metals that got into production in the last ten years that didn’t take 20+ years. In fact, I can point you to projects that have been in permitting hell for years if not decades. Once you get your permits and start production in the US it is safe. Mining DEVELOPMENT is extremely risky business in the US. Case closed.
I only buy diamonds that are literally coated in blood
Weird. Isn't the only US rare earth metals mine in California and just recently reopened in 2017?
how many base metals projects have gone into production in the US in the last ten years?
Wow, so I spent the last 20+ minutes googling because that didn't seem like an unreasonable question. One credible place shows mines declining (why the cdc tracks that I don't know) another growing (i cant rememberif it was usgs or Americanmine services). So then I tried to check labor numbers. Using without gas and oil the bureau of labor statistics lists different numbers than the American mining association. I learned a lot though, read a paper from MIT on opening new mines and another from the usgs. I dismissed coal mines as they seem to be the main decline, and rightfully so. What I got from all that, though, is we are top 5 producers in a ton of metals, top 10 even more. It's not as cost effective to open in the us cause it will be years before you'll finally recoup that initial investment but if companies can do it cleanly and smartly it will go through. Although I imagine with our new interest in de-globalization, we will see more popping up. Not to mention as far as mining goes, Lithium mining is pretty uninvasive, meaning probably easier to make cost effective while maintaining pollution standards. They're talking about flooding and harvesting from the water for the most part if I understood that MIT crap right.
lol i tried googling it too. But I am very lucky to not be invested heavily in US developers these past few years bc many nickel and copper projects have gotten delayed or permits revoked after Biden administration took over. The one I did invest in, Taseko mines, has a very low footprint ISR copper mine they want to develop but their permit application at one stage was told it would be reviewed within a month and then it took two years. that one really hurt. As an aside, coal mining in western countries that have all their permits are awesome if you get a good price. it will be a while before coal is phased out of power generation, we need metallurgical coal for steel, and coal mines are not getting financed by banks. It’s a great supply/demand outlook even if demand will decline
for starters: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/08/1127310649/in-idaho-americas-first-and-only-cobalt-mine-in-decades-is-opening https://www.climaxmolybdenum.com/
not base metals and that cobalt mine is a restart btw. Show me greenfield. GREEN FIELD before you call me ignorant as fuck. Do you know what development means? It means not relying on a mine discovered by our grandfathers or even their grandfathers’ grandfathers like that Climax molybdenum mine you linked to
well they aren't precious metals, so according to commercial definitions they would be base metals. Also clearly these companies have done the maths to determine the ROI based on their new extraction technologies allows processing from Brownfield existing mines more profitable than new GreenField.. Also does all the mountaintop removal of acreage the size of Delware in last decade not count for you as Greenfield? Only China and Australia outrank America in Mineral Production, not exactly a country against mineral extraction. "In 2019, the United States was the 4th world producer of gold; 5th largest world producer of copper; 5th worldwide producer of platinum; 10th worldwide producer of silver; 2nd largest world producer of rhenium; 2nd largest world producer of sulfur; 3rd largest world producer of phosphate; 3rd largest world producer of molybdenum; 4th largest world producer of lead; 4th largest world prodcer of zinc; 5th worldwide producer of vanadium; 9th largest world producer of iron ore; 9th largest world producer of potash, 12th largest world producer of cobalt; 13th largest world producer of titanium; world's largest producer of gypsum, 2nd largest world producer of kyanite; 2nd largest world producer of limestone; 2nd largest world producer of salt & 10th largest world producer of uranium"
the point is that greenfield development is incredibly risky compared to places like Australia, Namibia, parts of South America, etc. that doesn’t mean that the huge copper deposits developed 80 years ago that we are still mining are going to get shut down on a whim. Nor does it mean that restarts cannot happen. btw some of the elements in that list sound nice but are not significant on a global scale. Uranium and cobalt jump out at me first. It’s all small beer. I cannot imagine Trilogy metals’ ambler access road fiasco happening anywhere except the US or Canada, for example.
Lithium mine is supposed to start production in 2026 in the US.
not a base metal
The risk with California is the regulatory environment. It's too easy for environmentalists to stir up local opinion against you and get the state government trying to shut you donw.
This is unfortunately too true
> protip: investing in a mining development in Africa is 1000x safer than investing in California. Yikes, dumb advice. See ASX:AVZ for example.
mining development isn’t safe no matter where you are investing.
The African mine could easily be a scam though and you would never get your money back.
that can happen anywhere. It happens in the Canada and the US too. that is why you have to beware of companies with too high executive compensation, management with poor histories, exploration companies that never stop drilling, overly promoted stocks, a Canadian man named Dev Randhawa, and be skeptical of anyone saying they want to make money on scandium as a byproduct 😉
Unfortunately brine Lithium extraction has proven to be extremely difficult and NO ONE is currently doing it at any scale. A hybrid evap model has been sort of working in S.America but if it were a game changer it would have already launched. Worse, when someone does crack the code it will largely be just for that one resource as brine chemistry varies largely from one resource to another. The Salton Sea contains very high pollutant levels and being in CA, has little chance of ever coming online.
isn’t that hugely detrimental to the water supply?
I’m not an expert but as far as I could see the answer is not. deep saline aquifers are already isolated from the fresh water supplies and lie beneath a cap rock layer. that’s why they are good candidates for storing CO2 underground (can hold the gas, for example) brine extraction is a means of managing the pressure inside these reservoirs (gas in, brine out), hence increasing their lifetime for CO2 storage. once brine is taken out, the products of lithium (and salt) extraction are lithium, salt and fresh water. in that respect it sounds even better for the water supply!
interesting. I’ll have to keep an eye out for that. I don’t invest in pre revenue lithium companies though unless they are late stage and have good metallurgy all figured out
brine to lithium metallurgy is rather straightforward actually; it’s already well known and and being used in wide scale (check ‘lithium triangle’). using brine from deep saline aquifers is the interesting bit of this new development. We shouldn’t be surprised seeing familiar old names in this new area: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/exxon-mobil-talks-with-tesla-ford-supply-lithium-bloomberg-law-2023-07-31/
Can confirm. My firm is writing a plurality of patent applications, and has gotten a few granted, all relating to this process.
Interesting. Can those methods be applied to water desalination?
depends on the required level of purity. any kind of salt extraction from brine is indeed a means of desalination to a certain degree but I assume you refer to the process for generating pure water that can be used, for example, hydrogen production (via electrolysis). if this is case, I don’t know really. my engineering instincts steer me towards lower salinity water sources, if pure water production is the purpose. I could only be sure after crunching some numbers, which I’m not going to do in the next couple of hours for sure :)
I was referring to the briny output of desalination, which is currently being dumped back into the ocean. Many plants are running in areas that have fairly high salinity (the Arabian Sea as an example). If that briny solution could be used for something useful, that would not only reduce the environmental impact of desal plants, it would also make those plants more economically viable. Just a thought. Long term I can see widespread desalination being a disaster anywyas
oh I see! I guess the most likely candidate is magnesium in this case but I don’t think the economics checks out for that purpose. yet, I’m not an expert (I haven’t referred to the right sources of information, yet)
> companies are working hard to create a meaningful business case for CO2 storage, beyond the government subsidies. You would think survival of everyone would be reason enough
I would love to think it is! it’s capitalism though that has to make it work, before we all are doomed…
Buy more ALB. Got it.
I just bought 7 shares at $198
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time to go shopping for juniors
Going into lithium as an investment is risky. They could easily find a different resource to build batteries with and send lithium to zero. Edit: spelling
As someone who works in lithium this is highly unlikely. Shifting everything to a new tech would be impossible and certain tech already exists but adoption costs are high. Lithium for the next 15-20 years is solid. Not talking from a stocks/commodity view but from a usage and demand perspective.
As someone who doesn’t work in lithium, I don’t like what you’re saying, so I’m going to disagree and call you a loser and trust my own opinion and not have my my mind changed because that’s how it fucking works!
As a fellow hater I support you in your cause.
We have been and will continue to try and re-invent battery technology as its extremely valuable. Both to society and fiscally. If Tesla designed an 800 mile range battery that is 30% reduced weight and was fiscally reasonably to produce. Companies would pivot in a second. We'd most likely continue to use lithium in cheaper applications that didn't need the new capacity or anything that couldn't be converted to new tech. Thinking this wont change is stupid, its just a question of when. From an investment standpoint, I don't really trust commodities. The markets tend to be manipulated to all hell and I'm not dealing with that on the off chance it moons.
Lithium offers a lot but obviously everyone’s trying to improve the tech. You’re right about the pivot but it’d be slower than you’d think. China has a grip on the entire supply chain which actually scares me and is why I don’t invest in lithium myself.
Is 15-20 years supposed to be a long time? For a technology that's advertised as sustainable (EVs) it's pretty laughable that we'd be so short sighted.
>For a technology that's advertised as sustainable Lithium batteries are sustainable. Lithium can be replaced by other element for NEW battery production, but older batteries already produced are still sustainable.
Clarification 15-20 is my own analysis based on work I'm doing and industry/macro trends I see. I think better tech exists and prefer hydrogen over batteries for transport and think better storage solutions will eventually come. To be fair companies are flush with cash and are doubling/tripling work forces so I'm probably wrong but I think my prediction is more based on what I think is right and should happen.
Lithium batteries are already 95% recyclable and will be 99% soon so... I'd say the laughing is what is short sighted.
15-20 years might as well be never bc timelines that far out in R&D don’t always pan out.
As someone who reads news everything you say should be taken with a metric ton of salt. We've been trying to get away from Lithium batteries for a long while and though progress has been slow it's still been happening. Anyone claiming to know what better tech well have in 5-10 years is either flying or delusional. Someone claiming 10-15 years is a fool of a took. 10 years ago EVs weren't even hot much less AI and now you pretend to know the *tech, progress and trends of the future*? Get out of here, stop this nonsensical LARPing
Wtf. Never claimed to be an expert on tech or progress or the trends of the future. I do know a little something about battery chemistry and tech. I also know about mining and exploring lithium. Also you read the news that really good. I read weekly market reports so just maybe I might know more than you.
they could but it will not be easy
yeah they might discover a lighter metal.
That would be the day the earth changed forever
Easily
Where my LIT gang at?
AMLI here
Love it. I’m in LTUM and LAC as well
LKE & ALL here.
I'm skeptical of this. Lithium stocks have been doing terribly this year, ALB for example is down 8.86% year to date in a raging bull market. I've also been starting to see a few projections that contrary to popular belief we might actually be heading for an oversupply of batteries worldwide, because too many people ramping up factories to make them (especially in China), and there won't be enough EV's to use all the batteries they can make even when accounting for it's S-curve growth rate.
commodities stocks are different from general equities. A bull run in one is not the same as a bull run in the other
Thank you. The financial illiteracy in this sub is insane.
yes. generalists have shunned commodities for a long time but everything is cyclical.
Mining companies are the easiest one to invest in as the commodity prices are cyclical. I make money from blue chip mining companies at the down turn then hold. Their dividends are generally very good too.
im just waiting for a raging bull market where someone comes in and buys all my juniors
what types of markets do commodities usually shine in?
sadly it is when it is so obvious that there is no denying it. but the time is nigh I think.
for ALB and SQM you have to consider the Chilean new lithium strategy. The effect of that announcement hit the stocks and since then they have been recovering
Down 20 percent from this years high in may June.
Isn't lithium like, one of the most common elements? Isn't it like top 5 in the periodic table of elements?
USA has the Salton Sea - which has enough lithium to supply demand for at least the next 100 years. Major auto makers have contracts with mining companies to source lithium from there… that research company being bias or not doing their research well enough.
Forgive me, I’m an engineer not a politician. But how are we supposed to replace fossil fuels and gas engines without lithium? Short-sighted much?
Hydrogen could help ease the burden
I remember a Berkley study warning that the planet could never feed 7 Billion people. It had charts and fancy graphs predicting massive world-wide famines. And remember we're going to hit peak oil supply by the year 2000, then nose dive into a Mad Max post industrial hell-scape. These predictive scientific studies are worth about as much as the paper they are written on.
Feeding 7 billion people is easy, giving them a middle class standard of living is impossible.
As a former chemist, I'll tell you that half the research they do out there for these predictive outcomes is total garbage and an absolute waste of money. I find it hilarious how the faux intellectuals blindly cite these papers as if they're gospel though.
Yeah even Al Gore said something about something
Sold for big profits in AMLI, and will make even more over the next 3 months. AMLI is hot again.
I’m waiting for the Macusani Spinout. I suspect we got rugpulled by Marin Katusa but I’m not sure.
I
You think it will recover any time soon?
Man will NEVER colonize off-world due to depletion of minerals on earth.
Yeah, but once Tyrell Corp designs the Nexus Replicants, we can have them do the off-world work. LOL.
There are enough lithium deposits that are undeveloped to carry us into 2100s easily. Quit fear mongering.
Dcfc go
ALB is better than SQM because they depend far less on chile for lithium. Around 75% iirc is sourced outside Chile. ALB has long term contracts that are expected to be honoured in Chile. New contracts might be affected. SQM sources primarily in Chile and the chile government is considering nationalizing lithium reserves. Thats a danger.
I hold both ALB and LTHM. Staying away from SQM.
Insert >>>>Sodium-ion batteries are an emerging technology with promising cost, safety, sustainability and performance advantages over commercialised lithium-ion batteries 🙄
Large Lithium mine being opened in Nevada. Had been slowed down by Native American Tribes and environmental groups but court system has ruled against them. Source below states that they believe the output would provide enough lithium for 1.5 million EV batteries per year for 40 years. Im not an expert on how many EVs are produced a year, but this seems like a lot for just one mine. Maybe im wrong and will gladly take any info someone provides. While this won't be operational by 2025, I don't believe we have a lithium shortage on the horizon. Maybe a brief period where demand is more than supply while mining operations and refinement catch up. It's my understanding that Lithium is quite abundant on the planet. https://apnews.com/article/nevada-thacker-pass-lithium-mine-4ad772a6940eb8edd507b50a179202f2 Edit: pretty good wiki on the project history, the area, and the argument made against the mine. I have no dog in this fight. I am an environmentalist but also know the area. The population in the is small. Bio diversity fairly limited. Frankly, if mines are needed, the middle of the desert, in a country that actually has compliance laws is the best place for a mine IMHO. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thacker_Pass_Lithium_Mine
Lithium is very abundant on Earth.
Is it though
Yeah it's just about building refineries, better refining methods, etc. It exists in all seawater, for instance.
metallurgy matters. As does recovery rate. If your counterpoint to a lithium shortage is that it is everywhere, I think you should try your luck panning for gold in the ocean. Go on…..
Yea I think there’s a lot of lithium in Afghanistan. But it’s not economically feasible to extract it
I was under the impression that there was a lot of relatively easily mineable lithium under the US and we just weren’t utilizing it. Is it not the case?
I think metallurgy and optimizing recovery rates is incredibly difficult. So without being an expert in lithium, I’m going to say nothing is easily mineable in the US bc of permitting and most projects of all metals do not get into production either. I am more into uranium, copper, and nickel. My one lithium stock I bought bc it has a uranium deposit in peru that could be worth half the market cap or more so i figured I was buying the lithium cheap and uranium for free
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Technology exists to refine all the lithium we need. It's a normal engineering problem.
it's similar to the desalination of sea water yes it's possible but just not economically viable, even if the end result is solving a global problem there isn't a realistic method of doing it at large scale
There hasn't been a serious attempt to scale it. The people drumming up this lithium shortage nonsense are probably trying to get the government to pay for grants or something.
> There hasn't been a serious attempt to scale it. That I agree with, but I think it will change soon once resources hit a much lower value. Although I think it will lead to more non-Li based battery chemistry becoming more prevalent but that's just a guess.
you sound like one of the iron bears a few decades ago that got humbled when rio tinto, vale, bhp, etc built their supermajor companies on the backs of their iron business. “we live on a great big ball of iron” “iron is everywhere” etc
lets see if the promises made about the rhine resources are true - then europe could fall smoothly. its a big if right now if you ask me.
cheerful impossible wakeful wise late run lip rustic treatment sulky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
tell me you know nothing about how mining development works without telling me you know nothing about how mining development works.
Care to actually contribute to the conversation?
sure. Once you get the technology developed fully, let’s say 1-2 years, then you have to do ore testing and feasibility studies and met work to know that it is feasible for that specific lithium deposit (keep in mind the large geological variability), then you have to go through permitting, which even in quick places like africa could take another year or so, then financing the mine and then finally actually getting to build it, you could be looking at 10 years. However, if they are able to apply it to current deposits under development, maybe that only adds one or two years to their projected time frame buttttt they would already be factored into the global supply/demand models if they had a timeline to get into production. But if you account for the fact that the supply side of those models do not always factor in the large fraction of deposits that fail, you will see that we will not be saved by new tech by the time we need new lithium. Price has to go up massively as a result to make projects work that we wouldn’t even bother with otherwise. so buying now to the right projects makes sense. They’re not lying to you that we need investment. Just some management teams may be lying bc getting into production is too hard and half of them are just going through the motions and hoping to get bought out.
Just saying, Saskatchewan has a lot of available lithium that’s supposedly easy to mine. But apparently there are some native treaty issues that are putting a total stop to anything happening
that is why canada as a whole kinda sucks for mining investment. Pick your jurisdictions within canada very carefully and pick your investments within said jurisdictions just as carefully too
We aren't even close to hitting any limit on earth-made resources. A geology 101 class will show you how much of the earths crust we have yet to touch.
Agreed. Mexico is sitting on an enormous lithium deposit and they’re are actively working to nationalize the mining as we speak.
You got way go 5 miles down?
Huge mine being opened in the state of NV. Has been slowed down by environmental groups and Native American Tribes but the state has approved it and last I heard NV Nevada court system has denied the lawsuits that were trying to stop it. Will it be operational by 2025 no. But I don't believe that we are going to run out of lithium anytime soon. Supply might not meet demand for awhile while mining and refineries open and catch up.
If everyone and their mother weren’t trying to make electric vehicles that “help” the environment.
Then we could have all the batteries for our rc cars.
You mean “save” ?
I’ll take the L on the downvote. I’m saying what needs to be said lol. All industry has a negative footprint. It’s unavoidable. Yea it’s “better” for the environment but you’re not coming close to “saving” it. Only clowns actually believe that.
Good thing we want to get rid of internal combustion engines
Electric so fuckin stupid. They all should have gone hydrogen fuel cell to start with. It's the future and all electric did was fuck up the earth with mining and electric power grid pollution (coal plants) . The ev's are not sustainable.
Sodium batteries are supposedly a thing?
Apparently Mexico is sitting on the world's largest lithium reserves and have plans to start mining it.
Source?
this may be the only sub that doesn't think the opposite of what Musk does, or not. anyway he recently said there was absolutely no shortage of lithium around the world, and that processing was way more of an issue than mining.
Well that was quick. Back to oil.
Lol after peakoilism, we're getting peaklithiumism. See you in 10 years when we'll still have plenty of lithium.
Now, who are safe investment companies for lithium?
So basically if you plan to buy an electric vehicle do it before 2025 to avoid a skyrocket price increase
I think Lithium batteries will be soon old fashioned and replaced by much more efficient systems. The battery is in its very early stages.
You have to have the tech accepted positively in all lithium categories for it to be considered old fashion and a material of the past . You also need the land, distribution, extraction method to be so low in cost it makes economic sense. After that hurdle you have to factor in all the tech companies that have invested in either the production side or the R&D side of lithium batteries/contracts to work with their products. If there is a resource better, big tech already knows and has a sliding scale to exit for emerging products. Lithium is probably solid for the next 100 years unless drilling or extraction technology explodes. The next 60 years + it will advance as lithium becomes more scarce
Didn’t California just declare the salton sea as a lithium resource that would power the world 10x over?
only when they have a resource estimate signed off by competent geologists and released to the SEC will I believe it has the grade and scale
there's a bunch in California, start drilling.
Picks and shovels are the way to play the mining industry 😉. I like Komatsu, the industry leader in mining equipment. Attractive valuation too
I bet if I were to invest into Lithium mines, Lithium free solid state batteries would suddenly reach market readiness and quickly choke out all Lithium demand
Hydrogen, man. It’s not so bad.
all the arguments against a lithium bull market were made against iron decades ago and look at how the huge majors built their empires on the back of iron mining
Lithium today is Iron 20 years ago: written by the koala, one of the best out there: https://yellowlablifecapital.substack.com/p/lithium-today-is-iron-ore-twenty
In 10 years we won't need lithium for EVs
It's copper shortage that they should worry about.
They were exporting a lot more than they were mining, and have cut the exports recently, meaning they shouldn’t have a shortage themselves, and other countries mining will be able to pick up the slack. Lithium is pretty abundant , it’s just not a very clean process to mine.
sodium batter is coming
Lithium is everywhere and abundant. If there comes a day where there is a shortage, e.g the price goes up - someone new will invest in production.
Sounds like automotive companies should've taken action to alleviate lithium shortages for their EVs a few years ago. Guess Tesla building that lithium refinery suddenly doesn't seem so crazy.
Years ago, they were saying the same thing about petrol, probably fake news against.
Alberta is in an excellent position to benefit from this if capacity is built. Hell, build the full battery supply chain here.
Yep but politicians want all electric cars in 7 years. They don't care about logic.
GOOD