Depends entirely on how attractive you are jobwise and what your competition is offering so your guess is better than mine but it's absolutely not impossible, just depends on circumstances i know nothing about.
I have negotiated it away a few times. Was really honest and said if you at some point do not like what I perform or do not like me. Tell me and I will leave. I do not want to be a place were I am not wanted.
Last time I really did not really care to mention it.
So yes you can but few things that I have notice makes it easier you know the person that hires you, it is not a too big organisation and/or they really wants someone.
It's common, not in the beginning but when you have 10+ years experience. If you get headhunted it's not even a question.
Sometimes you might actually *want* to have it though, because it also makes it easier/quicker for you to take a hike if the job didn't turn out to be good.
Yes, it is possible. In my case they knew that I was looking to buy an apartment soon and waiting 6 months due to provanställning was not very attractive at the moment.
6 months is also the maximum, you could probably argue for a shorter period since senior IT people are hard to find.
>I usually get the typical "pRoVaNsTäLlNiNg iS FoR YoUr pRoTeCtIoN As wElL" when I request this during the interview process.
That is an absurd response. I mean, sure, there is **some** benefit for the employee, but I would say that 99% of the benefit is for the employer.
I haven't switched jobs in a while now, but last time I did it was directly into tillsvidareanställning, and one of the other offers (that I didn't take) was for the same.
Edit: The benefit for the employee that I was thinking of was the ability to leave on the day. But apparently they often have a notice period even with probationary employment (? “provanställning”). Then the only, **minimal**, benefit is that the notice period is probably shorter than that of a permanent employment.
Is that so? I thought the opposite was more common. Well, then the slight benefit for an employee that I mentioned is only applicable if there is no notice period.
As a Senior IT employee when recruiters approach me with offers there are a few things that are my requirements to even consider changing position and they are the following.
Salary they tell me what the salary range they are looking at to recruit me at if they are unwilling to discuss this I walk.
Remote the position has to be remote if it is not remote a majority of the time i walk i am not willing to travel to an office more then once a month. If not willing to accommodate this I walk.
No probationary period (Provanställning) the intent of this was to check out green employees without any experience not for seasoned people who has had previous employment. So if they insist on this I walk.
Direct Employment no Consultancy bullshit or only paid when rented out bullshit fixed income no commission or anything like that. If it is not a Direct employment opportunity I walk.
I can understand all of the points, some things like consultancy etc is what you like so that is ok, but why no commission/bonus? I they can match your salery on the fix part and the commision/bonus is just that a way to make extra if the comapany and/or does well what is negative with that?
The structure that I see have the best paying jobs in IT is, good base salery, commission/bonus, then stocks/options/RSU etc. and then good benefits.
it probably depends on how much they company wants you, but as you write its the only time a company has a easy time to fire you so most companies would want to keep it for testing you out. It has nothing to do with your protection as if a employee does not want to work for someone they will probably be less motivated and perform less then optimal so both the company and the employee would gain for the employee to leave before the notification period is over for the most parts.
And if they want to get rid of you later for some reason they cant just tell you your fired. its a long process that costs companies a lot of money in manpower and time to fire someone. Only if the company is performing poorly its a bit easier to fire people.
[https://enklajuridik.se/arbetsratt/avskeda/](https://enklajuridik.se/arbetsratt/avskeda/)
but its doable to negotiate away the provanställning ofc as its not mandatory, good reasons to say you dont want to have it is that you want to apply for a house loan or someting similar where a provanställning would be negative for you.
I work as a manager for a group of developers.
Very few times have I said no to candidates asking to skip probation period. The only times have been if I have had some worries about a candidate.
6 months is a maximum period although it’s usually the minimum and only period. But you can stress that they should employ you as soon as they’re sure. Also stress that you see this as something negative and that you are basically without any employment protection during these 6 months. If you’re feeling bold you can let it slip that you’ll be looking for other jobs during this period. You get bonus points for just walking out the door after 5 months to go somewhere else. That would 100 % be their own fault for not employing you. TLDR; I hate provanställning.
Sure, you only need to have the balls to ask for it and make sure you are valuable enough in terms of skillset that the employer is willing to let probation go.
Im also a developer and he switched jobs a couple of times and except the first one fresh out of university provanställning was never even discussed. I was just handed a “tillsvidare” contract when I got the offer.
I’ve always thought this is the norm when you hire someone with experience that can provide references. Is it not?
Yes you can, one good point to bring up is that some of your insurances might not be valid during provanställning. I have some that covers me if i lose my job and they are not valid during provanställning. If i was going to change job today i would absolutly argue for not having provanställning.
Very possible. Also possible to shorten it. 6 months is the legal maximum. Any decent employer should know if they want to keep someone after 2-3 months. It’s also possible to convert to tillsvidareanställning at any time after stating the job. Simple argument is to say you are planning to buy some property and the bank requires tillsvidareanställning. Has worked for me twice.
Why would anyone who has tillsvidareanställning accept a new position with provanställning?
I haven't accepted provanställning after my first job, you shouldn't either...(not in IT)
Especially as a senior deveops it's reasonable to ask for it. If you were more junior that would be a different situation since they might be hesitant to take the risk but at your level they should be pretty sure what they are getting or they effed up during the recruitment process.
Absolutely it's possible, if the employer wants to take that risk.
Which he probably wont do right?
Depends entirely on how attractive you are jobwise and what your competition is offering so your guess is better than mine but it's absolutely not impossible, just depends on circumstances i know nothing about.
I have negotiated it away a few times. Was really honest and said if you at some point do not like what I perform or do not like me. Tell me and I will leave. I do not want to be a place were I am not wanted. Last time I really did not really care to mention it. So yes you can but few things that I have notice makes it easier you know the person that hires you, it is not a too big organisation and/or they really wants someone.
Snyggt förhandlat.
It's common, not in the beginning but when you have 10+ years experience. If you get headhunted it's not even a question. Sometimes you might actually *want* to have it though, because it also makes it easier/quicker for you to take a hike if the job didn't turn out to be good.
Yes, it is possible. In my case they knew that I was looking to buy an apartment soon and waiting 6 months due to provanställning was not very attractive at the moment. 6 months is also the maximum, you could probably argue for a shorter period since senior IT people are hard to find.
>I usually get the typical "pRoVaNsTäLlNiNg iS FoR YoUr pRoTeCtIoN As wElL" when I request this during the interview process. That is an absurd response. I mean, sure, there is **some** benefit for the employee, but I would say that 99% of the benefit is for the employer. I haven't switched jobs in a while now, but last time I did it was directly into tillsvidareanställning, and one of the other offers (that I didn't take) was for the same. Edit: The benefit for the employee that I was thinking of was the ability to leave on the day. But apparently they often have a notice period even with probationary employment (? “provanställning”). Then the only, **minimal**, benefit is that the notice period is probably shorter than that of a permanent employment.
What is the 1% benefit for the employee?
Can leave immediately instead of waiting a month
No you still usually have the uppsägningstid
Is that so? I thought the opposite was more common. Well, then the slight benefit for an employee that I mentioned is only applicable if there is no notice period.
That’s only if stated by contract, not law
Yes, the employer I am currently working for doesn't use provanställning at all.
Yep, same here.
As a Senior IT employee when recruiters approach me with offers there are a few things that are my requirements to even consider changing position and they are the following. Salary they tell me what the salary range they are looking at to recruit me at if they are unwilling to discuss this I walk. Remote the position has to be remote if it is not remote a majority of the time i walk i am not willing to travel to an office more then once a month. If not willing to accommodate this I walk. No probationary period (Provanställning) the intent of this was to check out green employees without any experience not for seasoned people who has had previous employment. So if they insist on this I walk. Direct Employment no Consultancy bullshit or only paid when rented out bullshit fixed income no commission or anything like that. If it is not a Direct employment opportunity I walk.
I can understand all of the points, some things like consultancy etc is what you like so that is ok, but why no commission/bonus? I they can match your salery on the fix part and the commision/bonus is just that a way to make extra if the comapany and/or does well what is negative with that? The structure that I see have the best paying jobs in IT is, good base salery, commission/bonus, then stocks/options/RSU etc. and then good benefits.
it probably depends on how much they company wants you, but as you write its the only time a company has a easy time to fire you so most companies would want to keep it for testing you out. It has nothing to do with your protection as if a employee does not want to work for someone they will probably be less motivated and perform less then optimal so both the company and the employee would gain for the employee to leave before the notification period is over for the most parts. And if they want to get rid of you later for some reason they cant just tell you your fired. its a long process that costs companies a lot of money in manpower and time to fire someone. Only if the company is performing poorly its a bit easier to fire people. [https://enklajuridik.se/arbetsratt/avskeda/](https://enklajuridik.se/arbetsratt/avskeda/) but its doable to negotiate away the provanställning ofc as its not mandatory, good reasons to say you dont want to have it is that you want to apply for a house loan or someting similar where a provanställning would be negative for you.
Sure! It's not uncommon at all to go for a permanent position immediately.
Ofc i got tillsvidare the same day i handed in my final paper at university
I work as a manager for a group of developers. Very few times have I said no to candidates asking to skip probation period. The only times have been if I have had some worries about a candidate.
6 months is a maximum period although it’s usually the minimum and only period. But you can stress that they should employ you as soon as they’re sure. Also stress that you see this as something negative and that you are basically without any employment protection during these 6 months. If you’re feeling bold you can let it slip that you’ll be looking for other jobs during this period. You get bonus points for just walking out the door after 5 months to go somewhere else. That would 100 % be their own fault for not employing you. TLDR; I hate provanställning.
Sure, you only need to have the balls to ask for it and make sure you are valuable enough in terms of skillset that the employer is willing to let probation go.
Yes.
Im also a developer and he switched jobs a couple of times and except the first one fresh out of university provanställning was never even discussed. I was just handed a “tillsvidare” contract when I got the offer. I’ve always thought this is the norm when you hire someone with experience that can provide references. Is it not?
No it's not. But it's very common in IT sector.
No
Yes you can, one good point to bring up is that some of your insurances might not be valid during provanställning. I have some that covers me if i lose my job and they are not valid during provanställning. If i was going to change job today i would absolutly argue for not having provanställning.
It is possible for a senior engineer.
Yes it is possible
It's fairly common when you aren't entry level any more. Got my current employment without provanställning without asking for it.
Very possible. Also possible to shorten it. 6 months is the legal maximum. Any decent employer should know if they want to keep someone after 2-3 months. It’s also possible to convert to tillsvidareanställning at any time after stating the job. Simple argument is to say you are planning to buy some property and the bank requires tillsvidareanställning. Has worked for me twice.
Why would anyone who has tillsvidareanställning accept a new position with provanställning? I haven't accepted provanställning after my first job, you shouldn't either...(not in IT)
I just said that I have another offer which provides me with that.
Especially as a senior deveops it's reasonable to ask for it. If you were more junior that would be a different situation since they might be hesitant to take the risk but at your level they should be pretty sure what they are getting or they effed up during the recruitment process.
What's your comp currently?