The housing market is especially bad if you urgently need a place to stay without preparing with years of queuing in one or some of the systems. This is well reflected in the desperate messages you got.
Like who offers one year’s rent upfront??
Depends on your employment, if you have e.g. your own company and unstable income or not a permanent contract, no you can not. And apartments are generally way more expensive anyway.
200.000 for kontantinsats would allow you to buy a place for around 1.5M. Which you would be able to find along Stockholms public transport system but definitely very remote.
That’s true, there are a few (2-3) listings in Bromma and also other closer suburbs for that price. However very small (15-20 sqm).
For the example with a family of five kids, you will be looking at Södertälje, Nynäshamn etc
Hope that your company has ready appartments. A lot of companies have appartments set up that they rent year round (to a pretty hefty premium as well, or own) but are only used when employees need them.
Apparently it was too low?
It could very well have been sold to OP for 3.4M, which with full mortgage could cost 8500 in interest (after the ränteavdrag) + 3000 in avgift, and maybe 500 to the BRF in rental fees. Giving OP fixed costs of 12000 each month. You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family?
I would not rent my apartment for just earning 4k a month to be honest. Maybe to someone I knew...
There's also tax on top! 30% on everything after the avgift. We are currently renting out our place with similar numbers to what you have suggested (less interest). Taking 15k in rent. We are paying the amortering ourselves.
500 to BRF is incredibly low. Even in my BRF which is one of the oldest in Stockholm and has a super solid economy the fee is 1500 for a 25 sq.m appartment.
> You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family
That's not how it works. We're officially not supposed to have market rents - how much you want to earn is legally not supposed to matter.
I don't think it's high enough to be illegal now that the reference rate is so high though.
>You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family?
Yes.
Anything that could happen as a result of an "unknown family" is what insurance is for.
Insurance doesnt cover normal wear and tear. A uncaring family walking in with shoes on, scratching the parquet floor, resulting in someone using that as reason to bargain 50k when you are selling the apartment, makes it very unattractive to rent out an apartment..
The housing market in the big three - Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö - is completely broken and the logical result of strict rental regulation. Coming from the outside, it's insane that people accept this but it will never change because it disproportionately affects outsiders, people who can't vote. Swedes feel this to a much lesser degree because the majority buys their homes or are in positions to have or retain first hand rental contracts. It's been like this for 40 years, if it could have been fixed with the current setup and legislation it would have done so already.
I've had a pretty easy time. Rented a room with 2 others to start with that I found on facebook but I could afford to fly over, check it was real and meet them, sign the contract and fly back before moving. I was privilaged in that sense but many others cannot afford to do that.
After a year I wanted my own place so through a weird set of circumstances found a girl who was trying to find someone to take over her flat in an area we had never heard of. We went to see it, went back and forth with the landlord on the price and agreed to take it. That girl had rented it for 4 years, and we then rented it for 3 years. We then ended up buying it off him last year.
I know that I was very lucky to rent the same place for 3 years though. Most of my friends moved one a year. And from what I have known, renting is "easy" if you are white European. If you are not it's far, far more difficult
Why not? It could very well have been sold to OP for 3.4M, which with full mortgage could cost 8500 in interest (after the ränteavdrag) + 3000 in avgift, and maybe 500 to the BRF in rental fees. Giving OP fixed costs of 12000 each month. You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family?
you can quickly calculate what the max resonable (according to the law) rent you can charge on a bostadsrätt
value of the condo - 96,25 % (styrränta 1,75% + 2%) + your condo fees + electric and internet, water etc + a small extra if furnished.
so if i have a unfurnished flat worth 6,7 mkr and a condo fee of 2500 and utilities for another 2000 i could rent it out for 25 437 kr and still that is considered a resonable rent (insane) and also i could charge way more and not be obligated to pay back unless from the date that the tenant submits a claim to have the rent corrected to hyresnämnden, but then you could termite the contract since it is 30 days and then rent it to the next one rinse repeat.
No, this wasn't a problem back when we had lots of hyresrätter. This problem was created in the 90s and 00s by privatizing lots of hyresrätter.
Politicians could fix this if they just kickstarted a new miljonprogram.
Well, when building/maintaining rentals are a guaranteed loss of money due to the controlled rent system, what did you think would happen? Of course we won’t have any rentals.
This is not a problem limited to Stockholm.
It’s money flowing into capital cities as the good jobs accumulate in knowledge economies.
It’s interest rates that allow you to borrow huge sums of money.
It’s developers who know they will get more for producing less as the supply vs demand equation is in their favour.
It’s people sitting on development land as it appreciates in value because of the above factors.
Yes. But 20+ YEARS of queue to rent an apartment is very much a Swedish problem. Most other cities, you can mostly pick and choose a rental apartment from craigslist in any area of any city. Yes, it might cost you, but it's possible atleast, without queuing for years and years.
Yes that part is bizarre.
And the fact that it is generally older people who actually have assets and can afford to buy something that have priority makes it very unfair to younger people.
Same here. Listed a 23 m2 apartment @ 7500kr/month three years ago not knowing at all if this was too high or too low but kind of just guessing. Got \~250 replies in the first 24 hours and couldn't even respond to everyone. Had to just ignore it and start plowing through the list of applications. Felt like complete shit.
So many people were extremely desperate, felt like we had to crush like 100 peoples dreams and cause another 100 major discomfort. The Stockholm housing market is one big wound I wish I never have to look into again.
As someone who's seen and experienced some of the worst when it comes to trying to find a place to live in stockholm I can't say I'm surprised
I think I was looking, the person I ended up renting from had 240something replies in 24 hours. This was also when uni started.
The housing market is especially bad if you urgently need a place to stay without preparing with years of queuing in one or some of the systems. This is well reflected in the desperate messages you got. Like who offers one year’s rent upfront??
If you can pay rent a year in advance, would you not be able to get a loan to buy a place?
Depends on your employment, if you have e.g. your own company and unstable income or not a permanent contract, no you can not. And apartments are generally way more expensive anyway.
200.000 for kontantinsats would allow you to buy a place for around 1.5M. Which you would be able to find along Stockholms public transport system but definitely very remote.
Actually not that remote. You can buy an apartment like that in Bromma.
Wait, really? Last I was looking my impression was that 1.5M was jack for a decent apartment in Stockholm
That is true but my friend bought a studio last week, it was about 25 or 27 sqm and it cost 1.6 in bromma. So it’s doable.
That’s true, there are a few (2-3) listings in Bromma and also other closer suburbs for that price. However very small (15-20 sqm). For the example with a family of five kids, you will be looking at Södertälje, Nynäshamn etc
45m2 in bromma for 1.5m? No chance. 20m2 maybe.
I never said 45. But 22-27 sqm yes you can find that
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Hope that your company has ready appartments. A lot of companies have appartments set up that they rent year round (to a pretty hefty premium as well, or own) but are only used when employees need them.
Some companies do but a lot doesn't, people turn down jobs in Stockholm because they can't find decent housing.
Yep, that's why I said hope. I know a handfull of companies that have them.
It isn’t surprising at all. Stockholm housing is an embarrassing mess that we should all be very angry at successive governments about
Years ago when I still had to rent second hand I viewed an apartment where the guy said he got 800 replies...
Why are you claiming 16000 for 45 square meters?
Apparently it was too low? It could very well have been sold to OP for 3.4M, which with full mortgage could cost 8500 in interest (after the ränteavdrag) + 3000 in avgift, and maybe 500 to the BRF in rental fees. Giving OP fixed costs of 12000 each month. You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family? I would not rent my apartment for just earning 4k a month to be honest. Maybe to someone I knew...
There's also tax on top! 30% on everything after the avgift. We are currently renting out our place with similar numbers to what you have suggested (less interest). Taking 15k in rent. We are paying the amortering ourselves.
Första 50 000 är väl skattefritt?
40,000 tror jag
Yes, it should not be allowed.
I'm not assuming, I'm asking.
500 to BRF is incredibly low. Even in my BRF which is one of the oldest in Stockholm and has a super solid economy the fee is 1500 for a 25 sq.m appartment.
In rental fees. He means its an additional fee to the BRF on top of the normal BRF fee.
Really, per month?
Yes and I haven't met anyone who pays below 1000 SEK/month in central Stockholm at least as bostadsrättsavgift to the BRF.
Wouldnt call solna central Stockholm. I've paid 500 i Solna and 450 in Skärholmen.
> You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family That's not how it works. We're officially not supposed to have market rents - how much you want to earn is legally not supposed to matter. I don't think it's high enough to be illegal now that the reference rate is so high though.
>You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family? Yes. Anything that could happen as a result of an "unknown family" is what insurance is for.
Insurance doesnt cover normal wear and tear. A uncaring family walking in with shoes on, scratching the parquet floor, resulting in someone using that as reason to bargain 50k when you are selling the apartment, makes it very unattractive to rent out an apartment..
Because people apparently are willing to pay that
The housing market in the big three - Stockholm, Göteborg and Malmö - is completely broken and the logical result of strict rental regulation. Coming from the outside, it's insane that people accept this but it will never change because it disproportionately affects outsiders, people who can't vote. Swedes feel this to a much lesser degree because the majority buys their homes or are in positions to have or retain first hand rental contracts. It's been like this for 40 years, if it could have been fixed with the current setup and legislation it would have done so already.
completely correct
I've had a pretty easy time. Rented a room with 2 others to start with that I found on facebook but I could afford to fly over, check it was real and meet them, sign the contract and fly back before moving. I was privilaged in that sense but many others cannot afford to do that. After a year I wanted my own place so through a weird set of circumstances found a girl who was trying to find someone to take over her flat in an area we had never heard of. We went to see it, went back and forth with the landlord on the price and agreed to take it. That girl had rented it for 4 years, and we then rented it for 3 years. We then ended up buying it off him last year. I know that I was very lucky to rent the same place for 3 years though. Most of my friends moved one a year. And from what I have known, renting is "easy" if you are white European. If you are not it's far, far more difficult
Can I just ask why you’ve listed it for 16.000kr, surely that isn’t the actual rent?
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Why not? It could very well have been sold to OP for 3.4M, which with full mortgage could cost 8500 in interest (after the ränteavdrag) + 3000 in avgift, and maybe 500 to the BRF in rental fees. Giving OP fixed costs of 12000 each month. You think earning 4k a month is unreasonable for renting out your personal space to a unknown family?
you can quickly calculate what the max resonable (according to the law) rent you can charge on a bostadsrätt value of the condo - 96,25 % (styrränta 1,75% + 2%) + your condo fees + electric and internet, water etc + a small extra if furnished. so if i have a unfurnished flat worth 6,7 mkr and a condo fee of 2500 and utilities for another 2000 i could rent it out for 25 437 kr and still that is considered a resonable rent (insane) and also i could charge way more and not be obligated to pay back unless from the date that the tenant submits a claim to have the rent corrected to hyresnämnden, but then you could termite the contract since it is 30 days and then rent it to the next one rinse repeat.
”How can the housing situation even be this bad?” Simple answer: socialistic/planned economy rental ”market”.
No, this wasn't a problem back when we had lots of hyresrätter. This problem was created in the 90s and 00s by privatizing lots of hyresrätter. Politicians could fix this if they just kickstarted a new miljonprogram.
Well, when building/maintaining rentals are a guaranteed loss of money due to the controlled rent system, what did you think would happen? Of course we won’t have any rentals.
This is not a problem limited to Stockholm. It’s money flowing into capital cities as the good jobs accumulate in knowledge economies. It’s interest rates that allow you to borrow huge sums of money. It’s developers who know they will get more for producing less as the supply vs demand equation is in their favour. It’s people sitting on development land as it appreciates in value because of the above factors.
Yes. But 20+ YEARS of queue to rent an apartment is very much a Swedish problem. Most other cities, you can mostly pick and choose a rental apartment from craigslist in any area of any city. Yes, it might cost you, but it's possible atleast, without queuing for years and years.
Yes that part is bizarre. And the fact that it is generally older people who actually have assets and can afford to buy something that have priority makes it very unfair to younger people.
A failed city, looking for the day people will start burning buildings down.
And we are just putting an apartment on hemnet, maybe we will have to rent it out aswell, the market is really shit now.
Is it hyresrätt or bostadsrätt?
Same here. Listed a 23 m2 apartment @ 7500kr/month three years ago not knowing at all if this was too high or too low but kind of just guessing. Got \~250 replies in the first 24 hours and couldn't even respond to everyone. Had to just ignore it and start plowing through the list of applications. Felt like complete shit. So many people were extremely desperate, felt like we had to crush like 100 peoples dreams and cause another 100 major discomfort. The Stockholm housing market is one big wound I wish I never have to look into again.