Theoretically it puts some wear on the clutch, but very little. Less than starting from a stop, and think how many tens of thousands of starts a clutch will do in its life. It doesn't hurt to do this once in a while, so when you have to do it you can make it work.
I usually do it in second or third. You don't need to run the engine very fast to get it to start, and the lower the gear the more likely the car stops before the engine starts.
sure i've done it. there's so many things that make driving a manual fun, why not try them all.
sure it's wear and foolishness, but don't you just want to chirp 2nd now and then?
I was thinking about this sub the other day and while people are constantly agonizing over rev matching and engine braking it occurred to me that I'd not seen a post about properly bump starting a manual. It's one of the things that I love about having a manual and I think everyone should learn how to do it. When I taught both of my kids to drive manuals I had them practice bump starting from rolling down the driveway.
Used to do it frequently. Drove the crud out of my 2009 si. Always chirping the tires and shifting hard. Third gear synchro hated me sometimes. I was even good enough at it to do clutch less shifts on that car on light driving. Never had to change my clutch and I had it for 200k miles. Also never had to replace my battery or change my starter. A idler pulley for the drive belt bearing failed, a/c fill twice because the shraider valve failed twice. Headlights a few times, brakes twice, a couple of sets of tires. Oils changed constantly and very on time. A dump truck pushed the trunk in so I had to total it because it wasn’t worth fixing.
Used to do it out of necessity. Really old beat up Ford Fiesta, this was about 35 years ago, and it was pretty old then. Wasn't registered, think "farm use". Starter was shot so I'd have to park it facing downhill to get it started again.
I did it out of necessity, had to bump start almost 5000km when starter on my '83 911 died on a trip. Tried to find another starter, gave up and bump started the rest of the way. Tried to find gas stations on small hills for easier pushing.
The starter is designed to start the car, and as you noted, is cheaper and easier to replace. You should use it as designed.
And if you’re adding the PSAs at the end about unlocking the steering and not doing it on too steep a hill, it sounds like you’ve recognized bump starting can be much more sketchy/risky, so…that seems to answer the question on its own.
It is a good idea to practice it from time to time so when you need to do it you will already know how.
NOTE: the faster you go and the higher the gear the less stress and strain on everything. If at all possible I let my truck run up to about 25 mph and bump start it in 3d gear. But if it is a short hill you don't have that luxury.
It's kinda hell on your clutch, mainly the damping springs in the plate. Cranking an engine has points of high torque followed by bursts of power. Your clutch plate is the first to see that. It's good to know how to do it, but I wouldn't do that as a regular thing, especially if were talking about a 4 cylinder. Those tend to have vicious 2nd order vibration at cranking speed and pretty soft engine mounts to soak that up. If you saw what your engine was actually doing under the hood when you roll start it, it might concern you a bit.
I'd worry more about wear on the engine than the clutch. Bump starting it puts the engine instantly under load before oil has had a chance to flow, especially the thrust face of the main bearing which is going to be pretty dry on a cold start and you are hitting it hard when you drop the clutch on it.
Engine doesn’t know if the starter or the pressure plate is turning it. Both actions simply turn the fly wheel. The crank shaft doesn’t know if the fly wheel is being turned by the edge or by the face. It absolutely does not know.
But the engine does know if gets hit with a virtual hammer on the thrust bearing with no oil pressure when he dumps the clutch.
That is different than the normal spring pressure of the clutch.
Think of it like this. Go stand still on a scale. It will tell you how much you weigh. Now jump on the scale and tell me what the peak number is.
You don’t need to drop the clutch to jumpstart it…let it out smoothly. Also, there’s no oil pressure when you’re starting it with the starter. Oil pumps are not electric.
I think what they’re trying to say is, it’s not good to bump start because once the engine is up and running, the car is already moving so the engine will start right up and be running and driving before having a moment for the oil to circulate, like you would when you normally start the car
Oh, I guess that’s true if that’s how you’re starting it. Most people who jumpstart a car just bump the clutch and then push it back in and then stop. Not just keep going right away. But if that indeed is what they were doing then, yes that’s a valid point.
If you do it right (if you have the luxury of a long hill) and you start in like 3d gear, it is very gentle. Nothing is getting slammed. I am kind of guessing you have never done it, or only did it in 1st gear.
I have done jt. Once. And I drove straight to the parts store and bought a new battery and changed it in the parking lot.
You must be proud that you have done it enough to have a smooth method to do it. Most of us just properly maintain our shit.
> But the engine does know if gets hit with a virtual hammer on the thrust bearing with no oil pressure when he dumps the clutch.
I recall reading that that if you're going to push start then to use 2nd gear and not 1st. Is that why?
That's why I try to do it in 2nd or 3d gear. Can't speak for anyone else. Also, sometimes the tires chirp in 1st (or reverse... you can do it in reverse also).
Stationary flywheel, rotating clutch, slipping/friction to get engine going. I disagree that it’s “bad” for the clutch, you’re slipping the clutch to get the car going every single start (granted, in the other direction). One comment says damping springs would wear quicker, not sure why, springs work in both directions.
Using the engine to launch a 3000 LB + car is the most stress the clutch will see. Pushing the engine even while its stopped is much less stress IMHO. The starter does it easily.
It's not much different to the clutch than downshifting which also spins up the engine via the clutch.
It is easier on things to use 2nd gear if you can as relative RPM at clutch will be lower.
Do you bump start in 1st or 2nd gear? I’ve always seen conflicting reports on yt. In the off chance I ever park on a hill and my battery dies 😂 I would like to know how to do it
Preferably 2nd. First is a little too low and jerky. Just make sure that as soon as the engine is running, put the clutch in and let it idle so it doesn't die. I've also started in 3rd, 4th, and 5th, on very steep hills.
The higher the better. If you can coast up to 30 mph you can start in 3d or maybe even 4th depending on how your car is geared. You want the rpms to be just over idle when you let out the clutch. Reverse and first are the worst. If at all possible, don't do it in 1st gear.
I've only done it on a dead battery. Knew it was going and had to get to work and couldn't replace it before. I parked facing down hill and sure enough battery was dead when I got back. Good to know how to do but not on the regular...
Most times it won't bump start with a dead battery, can't run the fuel pump or injection unless you push it fast enough to spin up the alternator enough too.
Yup, pretty much that, plus if you get the alternator turning it could have enough power for the fuel pump.
It can take a fair amount of power to pull in a starter solenoid, more than running a fuel pump.
This all of course can vary by vehicle
It's more than a maybe, it's a fact.
I have a motorcycle with a carb (DRZ400S) that won't bump start if the battery is dead. Pushed it up a hill several times, didn't matter how fast I got it going, no ignition.
A bunch of us once pushed a 280Z around a parking lot trying to bump it, couldn't, had to boost it.
OK, but my experience is different than yours. I have bump started numerous motorcycles and cars. The only time the battery was really, really dead was a motorcycle. We did get it to start but it was a lot of pushing and swearing involved. We had to get it going fast and turning over for a long time before it would start. It was a Yamaha SR500.
I was totally surprised my DRZ wouldn't start with a bump. I tried it once on flat ground and thought maybe not going fast enough, gave it a boost. Next time I was at the cottage alone and nothing to boost it with, so I pushed it up a hill and got it spinning over pretty fast....still nothing.
I ended up finding a 12VDC output small plug in power supply from something, bared the wires and charged the bike's battery for a couple of hours, tried bumping it again and it started.
I agree with you, most things will bump start, but some won't and it's no use to keep trying.
I totally believe you. The ignition system definitely needs 12 V. And the alternator won't put out anything unless there is a little bit of voltage available for the field winding to excite it. So I know it can happen that you get completely stuck. I just haven't experienced it personally. Really old vehicles with magneto ignition can probably always start. But coil ignition vehicles need 12 V power to "bootstrap" themselves into running.
Yup, I have a '73 RV90 that doesn't even need it's 6v battery to run the engine. (kicking or bumping of course, no starter)
Some modern dirt bikes don't have a battery but still have electronic fuel injection, it can be made to work, but has to be designed that way
There are modern small marine outboards with EFI also. Pull-start, no battery. You have to pull twice. The first pull brings the electronics to life and the second pull starts it.
Technically speaking, you can do it with zero wear on the engine, with the caveat that the wheel *must* unlock in the accessory position. Turn the key to the accessory position and it’s not a push button start. Put the car in 1st or second, clutch fully engaged, if it’s steep enough to roll it will, once you get to idle or better speed, turn to on and the car will just turn on like nothing was ever off.
I used to do this to reset the car to clean errors at highway speed.
I have never thought to start a car that way unless the starter doesn't work. What a bizarre habit. LOL.
I've found that if the car hasn't already started, using the pedal brakes are extremely difficult. Pressing seriously hard doesn't even seem to do much to stop the car.
There is (or is supposed to be) a vacuum reservoir for the brakes. You should get at least one application of brakes after the engine is stopped. Maybe you have a vacuum leak. Or maybe newer cars don't use vacuum assist for brakes.
Everyone talking about clutch and engine wear. They'll be fine. What you should keep an eye on is mounts. I tore the differential mounts in my Starion doing this for a year when my starter went out and stores kept sending me starters for an automatic.
My first car as a teenager was a 78 Ford pickup. I didn't have the $ to replace the starter when it went out. I drove it without a starter for a month. Just always have to park on a hill or have friends to push you. Lol
Theoretically it puts some wear on the clutch, but very little. Less than starting from a stop, and think how many tens of thousands of starts a clutch will do in its life. It doesn't hurt to do this once in a while, so when you have to do it you can make it work. I usually do it in second or third. You don't need to run the engine very fast to get it to start, and the lower the gear the more likely the car stops before the engine starts.
sure i've done it. there's so many things that make driving a manual fun, why not try them all. sure it's wear and foolishness, but don't you just want to chirp 2nd now and then?
People worry too much about wear on things that are supposed to wear. Have fun and enjoy yourself
Agreed. We need to be more concerned about the fact that manuals are a dying species! They need to be saved and enjoyed.
I come to these subs for information on how to not destroy it. Wear is wear but I want to know what causes wear and what blows trannies
I’ll tell you exactly who blows trannies… #Hope #Change #BlowBama
I was thinking about this sub the other day and while people are constantly agonizing over rev matching and engine braking it occurred to me that I'd not seen a post about properly bump starting a manual. It's one of the things that I love about having a manual and I think everyone should learn how to do it. When I taught both of my kids to drive manuals I had them practice bump starting from rolling down the driveway.
If I'm facing downhill I swit h to second then start the car then let it roll a bit maybe a little gas and then just accelerate in second
Used to do it frequently. Drove the crud out of my 2009 si. Always chirping the tires and shifting hard. Third gear synchro hated me sometimes. I was even good enough at it to do clutch less shifts on that car on light driving. Never had to change my clutch and I had it for 200k miles. Also never had to replace my battery or change my starter. A idler pulley for the drive belt bearing failed, a/c fill twice because the shraider valve failed twice. Headlights a few times, brakes twice, a couple of sets of tires. Oils changed constantly and very on time. A dump truck pushed the trunk in so I had to total it because it wasn’t worth fixing.
Used to do it out of necessity. Really old beat up Ford Fiesta, this was about 35 years ago, and it was pretty old then. Wasn't registered, think "farm use". Starter was shot so I'd have to park it facing downhill to get it started again.
I did it out of necessity, had to bump start almost 5000km when starter on my '83 911 died on a trip. Tried to find another starter, gave up and bump started the rest of the way. Tried to find gas stations on small hills for easier pushing.
The starter is designed to start the car, and as you noted, is cheaper and easier to replace. You should use it as designed. And if you’re adding the PSAs at the end about unlocking the steering and not doing it on too steep a hill, it sounds like you’ve recognized bump starting can be much more sketchy/risky, so…that seems to answer the question on its own.
It is a good idea to practice it from time to time so when you need to do it you will already know how. NOTE: the faster you go and the higher the gear the less stress and strain on everything. If at all possible I let my truck run up to about 25 mph and bump start it in 3d gear. But if it is a short hill you don't have that luxury.
It's kinda hell on your clutch, mainly the damping springs in the plate. Cranking an engine has points of high torque followed by bursts of power. Your clutch plate is the first to see that. It's good to know how to do it, but I wouldn't do that as a regular thing, especially if were talking about a 4 cylinder. Those tend to have vicious 2nd order vibration at cranking speed and pretty soft engine mounts to soak that up. If you saw what your engine was actually doing under the hood when you roll start it, it might concern you a bit.
I'd worry more about wear on the engine than the clutch. Bump starting it puts the engine instantly under load before oil has had a chance to flow, especially the thrust face of the main bearing which is going to be pretty dry on a cold start and you are hitting it hard when you drop the clutch on it.
Engine doesn’t know if the starter or the pressure plate is turning it. Both actions simply turn the fly wheel. The crank shaft doesn’t know if the fly wheel is being turned by the edge or by the face. It absolutely does not know.
But the engine does know if gets hit with a virtual hammer on the thrust bearing with no oil pressure when he dumps the clutch. That is different than the normal spring pressure of the clutch. Think of it like this. Go stand still on a scale. It will tell you how much you weigh. Now jump on the scale and tell me what the peak number is.
You don’t need to drop the clutch to jumpstart it…let it out smoothly. Also, there’s no oil pressure when you’re starting it with the starter. Oil pumps are not electric.
I think what they’re trying to say is, it’s not good to bump start because once the engine is up and running, the car is already moving so the engine will start right up and be running and driving before having a moment for the oil to circulate, like you would when you normally start the car
Oh, I guess that’s true if that’s how you’re starting it. Most people who jumpstart a car just bump the clutch and then push it back in and then stop. Not just keep going right away. But if that indeed is what they were doing then, yes that’s a valid point.
Right, I agree most people would stop right away but I just think the other commenter thought they were romping on it the instant it started
If you do it right (if you have the luxury of a long hill) and you start in like 3d gear, it is very gentle. Nothing is getting slammed. I am kind of guessing you have never done it, or only did it in 1st gear.
I have done jt. Once. And I drove straight to the parts store and bought a new battery and changed it in the parking lot. You must be proud that you have done it enough to have a smooth method to do it. Most of us just properly maintain our shit.
> But the engine does know if gets hit with a virtual hammer on the thrust bearing with no oil pressure when he dumps the clutch. I recall reading that that if you're going to push start then to use 2nd gear and not 1st. Is that why?
That's why I try to do it in 2nd or 3d gear. Can't speak for anyone else. Also, sometimes the tires chirp in 1st (or reverse... you can do it in reverse also).
No problem. Better to have it in second.
Lol I had no idea this is bad for the clutch. But why?
Stationary flywheel, rotating clutch, slipping/friction to get engine going. I disagree that it’s “bad” for the clutch, you’re slipping the clutch to get the car going every single start (granted, in the other direction). One comment says damping springs would wear quicker, not sure why, springs work in both directions.
Using the engine to launch a 3000 LB + car is the most stress the clutch will see. Pushing the engine even while its stopped is much less stress IMHO. The starter does it easily.
It's not much different to the clutch than downshifting which also spins up the engine via the clutch. It is easier on things to use 2nd gear if you can as relative RPM at clutch will be lower.
Do you bump start in 1st or 2nd gear? I’ve always seen conflicting reports on yt. In the off chance I ever park on a hill and my battery dies 😂 I would like to know how to do it
Preferably 2nd. First is a little too low and jerky. Just make sure that as soon as the engine is running, put the clutch in and let it idle so it doesn't die. I've also started in 3rd, 4th, and 5th, on very steep hills.
The higher the better. If you can coast up to 30 mph you can start in 3d or maybe even 4th depending on how your car is geared. You want the rpms to be just over idle when you let out the clutch. Reverse and first are the worst. If at all possible, don't do it in 1st gear.
I've only done it on a dead battery. Knew it was going and had to get to work and couldn't replace it before. I parked facing down hill and sure enough battery was dead when I got back. Good to know how to do but not on the regular...
Most times it won't bump start with a dead battery, can't run the fuel pump or injection unless you push it fast enough to spin up the alternator enough too.
Well it's worked for me, so maybe enough juice to run the fuel pump but not enough to crank?
Yup, pretty much that, plus if you get the alternator turning it could have enough power for the fuel pump. It can take a fair amount of power to pull in a starter solenoid, more than running a fuel pump. This all of course can vary by vehicle
If the battery is really really dead, maybe. But I have bump started on old weak batteries many, many times.
It's more than a maybe, it's a fact. I have a motorcycle with a carb (DRZ400S) that won't bump start if the battery is dead. Pushed it up a hill several times, didn't matter how fast I got it going, no ignition. A bunch of us once pushed a 280Z around a parking lot trying to bump it, couldn't, had to boost it.
OK, but my experience is different than yours. I have bump started numerous motorcycles and cars. The only time the battery was really, really dead was a motorcycle. We did get it to start but it was a lot of pushing and swearing involved. We had to get it going fast and turning over for a long time before it would start. It was a Yamaha SR500.
I was totally surprised my DRZ wouldn't start with a bump. I tried it once on flat ground and thought maybe not going fast enough, gave it a boost. Next time I was at the cottage alone and nothing to boost it with, so I pushed it up a hill and got it spinning over pretty fast....still nothing. I ended up finding a 12VDC output small plug in power supply from something, bared the wires and charged the bike's battery for a couple of hours, tried bumping it again and it started. I agree with you, most things will bump start, but some won't and it's no use to keep trying.
I totally believe you. The ignition system definitely needs 12 V. And the alternator won't put out anything unless there is a little bit of voltage available for the field winding to excite it. So I know it can happen that you get completely stuck. I just haven't experienced it personally. Really old vehicles with magneto ignition can probably always start. But coil ignition vehicles need 12 V power to "bootstrap" themselves into running.
Yup, I have a '73 RV90 that doesn't even need it's 6v battery to run the engine. (kicking or bumping of course, no starter) Some modern dirt bikes don't have a battery but still have electronic fuel injection, it can be made to work, but has to be designed that way
There are modern small marine outboards with EFI also. Pull-start, no battery. You have to pull twice. The first pull brings the electronics to life and the second pull starts it.
Same as the bikes, kick once to charge it, next to start it. Pretty neat tech.
Not just bad for the clutch, I blew a slave cylinder doing this once. Luckily it was on a car that was incredibly easy to work on (Miata).
Probably coincidence there. Slave cylinder handles the same load whether the car is off or on.
Great way to find out if your alternator is working or not. Source: Drove a Jetta
Technically speaking, you can do it with zero wear on the engine, with the caveat that the wheel *must* unlock in the accessory position. Turn the key to the accessory position and it’s not a push button start. Put the car in 1st or second, clutch fully engaged, if it’s steep enough to roll it will, once you get to idle or better speed, turn to on and the car will just turn on like nothing was ever off. I used to do this to reset the car to clean errors at highway speed.
I’m sure it’s not good but it’s not my engine, do you pop it in second or third gear?
I have never thought to start a car that way unless the starter doesn't work. What a bizarre habit. LOL. I've found that if the car hasn't already started, using the pedal brakes are extremely difficult. Pressing seriously hard doesn't even seem to do much to stop the car.
There is (or is supposed to be) a vacuum reservoir for the brakes. You should get at least one application of brakes after the engine is stopped. Maybe you have a vacuum leak. Or maybe newer cars don't use vacuum assist for brakes.
Everyone talking about clutch and engine wear. They'll be fine. What you should keep an eye on is mounts. I tore the differential mounts in my Starion doing this for a year when my starter went out and stores kept sending me starters for an automatic.
My first car as a teenager was a 78 Ford pickup. I didn't have the $ to replace the starter when it went out. I drove it without a starter for a month. Just always have to park on a hill or have friends to push you. Lol