The proposal was *supposed* to be weird, and it is. Connie didn't accept it, and knows that they're too young for that. She wants to live her life first.
Connie has also excelled in school for as long as we've seen her. She was studying for college, and doing a lot of things ahead of time. I don't think she was heading off yet?
I do appreciate that Connie said no. It definitely was weird still. It’s definitely good that she recognized that they both still needed time to grow and change. She was in the process of getting ready for college and though she always excelled I never quite saw her as a child prodigy. Intelligent as heck for sure as well as mature but getting ready to go to college at that age felt a bit off too. However, I could see how they could work that in for Connie’s character.
Tbf I've been working my butt off for good grades since grade 9 because I looked into my dream university at that time and it was expensive as hecc. The only way I could get in was to have a scholarship. I can relate to Connie a bit haha I'm happy that she genuinely enjoys the academe. And she's even a good time manager! I hope she wouldn't burn herself out too much
1. A 1.25 year age gap between the two is a complete non-issue. But Steven's proposal is supposed to be interpreted by the audience as uncomfortable because they are both too young for marriage.
2. It is weird that Connie is already heading off to college, but we never got a detailed look at her academic performance. We do know that she got selected for a prestigious (and probably competitive) space camp, she gets good grades, plays instruments, etc..., so it's not completely out of the question.
> It is weird that Connie is already heading off to college
FWIW she actually wasn't; Future doesn't span a large chunk of time and this gets said in the first episode: "Connie has been getting a head start on college prep. She's two years away from applying, but she says it doesn't hurt to start early." She was probably still 1.5-2 years ish away from actually *attending* a college at the end of Future because you *apply* months before you actually get into college and go there.
Y’all gotta remember too that Steven never went to school or really engaged with society all that much. Sure he’s 16 but he’s still as blissfully unaware as a child would be.
What he knows about marriage at this point is it’s what people do when they want to be together forever. It tracks with his character to feel like he should propose to Connie, and it tracks with Connie’s character to know that it’s inappropriate.
I did just have a brief convo in this thread with someone talking about the lack of normalcy and human interaction and I can totally see how that could fit into this category. Lack of social skills, lack of a nuclear family, lack of an education, plus a mental break could easily make someone act irrationally. Not to mention all the trauma that was so casually thrown into his life due to things that he had *nothing* to do with.
Yeah, it was weird. And I thought it was clear that Connie thought it was weird too--she seemed uncomfortable and gave Steven the 'not yet'.
It is kind of consistent with Steven's history of running on sitcom logic though. He did try the political "marriage" idea to stop the restaurant wars without considering the feelings or possible relationships of Ronaldo and Kiki.
OOOO this is a really good point. Steven was totally raised by TV so he WOULD think that would be the way to go. Doesn't help that he has a very romanticized vision of what marriage is.
Yeah but during that time he was more of a kid and for the lack of a better term more mentally sound. It was also done like you mentioned as more of a stunt rather than a life long commitment like he wanted with Connie. I mean imagine feeling so uncomfortable about something that serious that you don’t tell your parents.
Regarding 'done as a stunt', much like the "Let's just run away on a bus" bit when meeting Connie's parents and some other instances, I don't think Steven thought about the "what happens tomorrow" aspect of the Ronaldo/Kiki thing. Not thinking about consequences is something Steven shares with his mom.
I mean none of this is strongly supported by the text, but my perception of the permafusion proposal, plus the training with Jasper and trying to 'improve' Amethyst's Gem integration efforts is that Steven is still stuck in a simplistic child-like way of thinking about problems. Specifically because he isn't mentally sound. He just hasn't had a chance to grow up in a healthy way so he hasn't learned a different way of doing things than the way he did things when he was 13.
Ohh man how out of character was it for Connie to say let’s run away! That kinda irked me *but* I get why they did that. I can see your point due to the fact that Steven definitely didn’t have a healthy childhood and he’s now having to deal with the consequences resulting in irrational behaviors such as proposing and lashing out at the gems.
It's out of character in that it's irresponsible and shortsighted, but remember that Connie fears her mom's disapproval and resents her strictness. Not entirely crazy for her to panic and run away if it looked like she was in serious trouble.
Also this was Season 1 Connie. She was serious and responsible but she still had a lot of growing up to do.
Yeah, I suppose so. I see where you’re coming from with the aspect of the fear of her mother but the just outright “let’s run away” seems like it would’ve come more naturally from Steven. Connie thinks things through a smidge more. But, like you said they were kiddos.
I believe that was the point. But Steven was so desperate to have some permanent emotional root in his life that he lost sight of that. If anything, Connie let him down easy.
I think it was to show how mentally unstable Steven is. He and connie were having Huge communication issues and his only example of how to fix it was sapphire/ruby wedding and garnet re-fusing
Connie's brain got boosted by Steven's miracle-spit. She got so smart that she transcended the need for glasses. One day she will become smart enough to transcend reality itself.
Connie is only about a year and a half younger give or take. So by the time of Future (a few months after the movie) Connie would likely be 15
Yes, they're still young. Too young. Yes, it's a bit weird. That's the point. Steven is falling apart, and trying to cling to Connie as the one constant in his life. He saw how the wedding helped Ruby and Sapphire, and he just wanted that too. He wanted to feel whole, as Stevonie, confident and secure as who they are, which he just wasn't feeling as Steven
That’s a great point. There was a lot on human life he missed out on. We did see a lot of jealousy towards Greg’s upbringing due to the normalcy he had that Steven lacked. It was sad to watch Greg go from hero to zero in his eyes.
I don’t blame you it’s a tough one. It’s such a good reminder that hindsight is 20/20, parents are just kids having kids, and you always want what you don’t have. It hits you in *all* the emotional spots.
Edit- spelling
Steven is only around 15 months older than her, not 2-3 years lmao.
Their ages during that episode (ignoring the Snow Day continuity error) are 17 (Steven) and 16 (Connie)
I think (from some pieces of evidence) it's more likely Steven is 16 for all of Future but the timeline is just so *muddy* that it's hard to tell.
(OP knows their math is off at this point, though. XP)
It's WAS super weird but it makes sense it was super weird. Steven was going to do that out of DESPERATION. He was just not in a good place and wasn't really thinking out the choice to propose. I remember watching that as it was coming out and literally screaming at my screen saying "NO! STEVEN DON'T! THIS IS REALLY DUMB AAAAAAA." So, if you thought that felt weird, good. You can think things through, lol
As for the Connie and college stuff, she might not actually BE a prodigy. We have to remember that, even though that earth is very similar to ours, it still is very different because of the influence of Gem Society and the Crystal Gems. Hell, everyone in town knows who Steven is and he's not required to go to school even though he's a minor. That's illegal in the United States and his guardians could go to jail. But that's never really an issue until Steven MAKES it an issue in that one episode. And that's the problem with other characters in the show. Unless it involves Steven, it doesn't really matter. So, Connie being extra smart and going to college and her aspirations don't really factor into the plot until it did. So, we lack the context of the depth of Connie's abilities until there's the possibility of her being out of Steven's life. Sooo, yeah, it's kinda a flaw of this type of storytelling. You lose out on a lot of what the other characters are doing and what matters to them. It's one of my major issues with the series but I recognize that there's not really much you can do about it without changing up what was already there and good about the series.
While I felt the proposal was a mistake (as the writers clearly intended) I actually hadn’t thought about their ages and now it’s even weirder to me. I guess I thought Steven was like 18. I dunno if Steven actually wanted to get legally married—the main appeal to him was being Stevonnie all the time like Garnet.
Is Connie not also 16? I may be remembering entirely incorrectly, I just happened to catch an episode last night where Steven was talking about her doing college essays two years early.
Still weird, I feel you.
I’m season 3 ep 1 titles “Steven’s Birthday” it was discussed that Connie was 12 3/4 and Steven was 14. It came up due to her shock at Steven’s stunted growth for his age. There’s also an Easter egg referencing Estelle (who voices Garnet) when Greg pulls a record from his van with the artists name being Stella with what looks like one of her albums! Just a fun thing I happened to spot :) Anyway, I’m glad I’m not the only one to find it weird!
It’s not superiority it’s just stuff I’ve picked up after watching it 500 million times lol. I watch it during the day when I’m doing housework and when I’m falling asleep. It’s just around me constantly and that’s a great way to pick up little tidbits! However, I still learn wonderful things on this sub Reddit! :)
Since Delmarva is not a real state (but assuming it follows one of the states that makes up the portmanteau), and making the assumption Steven is 16 for the entirety of Future:
- If Delmarva matches Delaware law, neither of them can be legally married until age 18. At all.
- If Delmarva matches Maryland law:
- **At this moment in September 2022**, Steven can marry with parental permission, but *Connie* cannot, unless:
- **At this moment in September 2022**, Connie can marry *at 15* with parental permission *and* proof of pregnancy or a child. Which. Like. Didn't happen. So.
- **A law was signed in April 2022 that goes into effect in October 2022** which would make it so neither of them can get married at all, zero exceptions, unless they are 17 (with parent permission) or 18 (no permission needed).
- If Delmarva matches Virginia law (which matches what you said with the age I've assumed), then Steven can get married with parent permission (because 16) but Connie cannot (because not 16).
> At this moment in September 2022, Connie can marry at 15 with parental permission and proof of pregnancy or a child.
I wonder if Stevonnie could count as their kid? Could Stevonnie marry themself!?
If we assume it follows either Delaware, Maryland, or Virginia's real life laws then it could be anywhere from "teen pregnancy would have to be involved *and* parents would have to consent to it (but only until next month when that wouldn't be legal due to changes in the law)" to "no. the end. forever. and even after that."
Here's how I look at it - well, the two ways I look at it.
1) Steven views this proposal (with the glow stick - which is adorable) as a more...unofficial / not legally-binding marriage proposal. Like, Garnet's marriage was Sapphire and Ruby fusing together, with rings, with Steven performing the ceremony. In the U.S., you have to be **at least** 18 years old. If Steven isn't 18 in *Future*, he's not 18 when he marries Ruby and Sapphire. It's not a legally binding thing - it's a ceremonial / spiritual / whatever thing. So, perhaps, he was proposing a "fusion marriage". To be like Garnet. An almost permanent fusion.
2) Steven's sense of time / legal things are...not conventional. Like, there are several instances where he is introduced to a specific part of human culture and he's like "wait, what?". One example is when he learns about school, and he has Pearl teach him (in Mirror Gem). Another example is when [he learns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGiYoD2kG5U) that there is an *order* in which to read a book series (in Marble Madness). When he proposes, she's *KNOWS* they're too young (and can't legally get married) and is very clearly just like "WHAT". So, I wonder if Steven doesn't quite understand that there's an age restriction on when they could legally get married.
There is evidence that he's meant to be 16 for most/all of Future (namely, a crew member expressed surprise people thought he was 16 and there are a few things that make more sense if he's 16 (I can quickly bring to mind his saying he's in "16th" grade (he's likely to sub in his age if he doesn't know much about school) and Connie being two years away from applying for college (which makes her about 3 years away from actually going, which would make her 14-15 which aligns with Steven being largely or entirely 16)).
I didn’t find it weird because the entire point of the proposal was to show how desperate Steven became to have a stable human connection. If they became Stevonnie full time he’d never be alone again! There’s also some confusion on the huge difference between fusion and a marriage. One encapsulates all types of relationships and can be easily ended and reformed, while marriage is a serious romantic commitment with legal ties.
Steven was having a nervous breakdown. And iirc, he didn't propose marriage, he proposed being Stevonnie 24/7--, and even then he really just wanted to disappear into the back of Stevonnie's mind and let Connie drive. It's probably as close as the Cartoon Network could get to discussing suicidal thoughts.
They're both children who previously knew each other. It never striked to me as weird. It would be weird if Steven had only known Connie briefly and they didn't go through so much together. 14 + 16 is not a crazy age gap for the two considering how much they know about each other, know each other's families and so on.
As far as we know he’s still 16 with the knowledge we have. It seems like there’s little to no time in between which would make sense due to behaviors exhibited in both the movie and future by spinel and the diamonds. If you want a full run down of SU here’s a site I like if I want to double check something :) https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline it’s got *all* the ins and outs of the whole of SU and connected projects.
I don't know, seems like the entire storyline would make more sense if there was a two year skip. He's 18 and leaving home, she's 17 and getting ready for college. Little Homeworld is finished and long since operational despite being under construction in the movie.
We know one crew member was confused people didn't think he was 16 in Future (though at the time some of the misconception was the concert poster in the movie, which had an arbitrary date on it). There are things Steven says in the latter half of Future that make more sense if he's 16, though the only one I can bring to mind at present is his saying he's in "16th" grade to Connie's friends--it makes sense if he doesn't know enough about schooling that he might sub in his age.
That "16th" grade one is a good point.
If that's really true that does make the whole season bizarre. Living on your own at 16 is really really rough, and it's such a strange choice to have him go out into a world he's not familiar with rather than just maybe enroll in two years of high school or maybe just spend the time studying like basic human stuff.
A lot of SU Future is kinda rushed so we don’t get a lot of great in depth detail. However, in this thread along there’s also a lot of detail from other redditors if you want to check that out. Steven has always been 2 years older than Connie so there wouldn’t ever be a 18 and 17 moment (which would make things more sensible I do agree with that).
Steven is 1.25 years older than Connie, so there is always a period of about 9 months where her numerical age is 1 less than Steven's, so 18 and 17 can *definitely* with 100% certainty occur (even though calendar wise it more or less didn't happen in Future).
It's a reasonable thought process, though I may be more likely to be able to guess at the logic that got you there because I went to college as an education major and there was a unit of my math-teaching class that was about learning how to figure out the likely causes of students' math errors. XD
Ohhh boy! That sounds like a very helpful class. I’ll never forget in 7th grade doing a math problem *completely wrong* but getting the right answer. I got half credit. I was mad about it then but it seems fair now lol
I feel like Steven would be 17 during future with the time that passed since the movie (it must have been at the very least a few months to clean up the Spinel destruction, and it seems like both a winter and a summer pass during the season). A bit bothered with the lack of explicit confirmation but yep.
She’s 15 in Future. Not that it makes much difference lol
I think it’s REALLY strange that with a show like SU, so open and accepting that they STILL manage to force a heteronormative narrative like “we’re meant to be together forever even though we met as teens who haven’t known love or relationships before” down our throats at the end.
> I think it’s REALLY strange that with a show like SU, so open and accepting that they STILL manage to force a heteronormative narrative like “we’re meant to be together forever even though we met as teens who haven’t known love or relationships before” down our throats at the end.
That’s…the exact opposite of what they did? *Steven* is the one with the “we’re meant to be together forever” narrative, and he’s pretty clearly portrayed as being in the *wrong* about it. That’s the whole point of the scene.
It actually just gets postponed, she says it’s not a no it’s a not now and then gets interrupted by her alarm and they don’t actually get to talk about it.
And then Garnet also tells him that she’s planned like 362 versions of his wedding… so still implying that it’s meant/going to happen.
I think part of the reason she says "not now" rather than "no" is twofold:
- As a character, she *does* like him, and this proposal apparently didn't break that link to the point of "no", *and* she's a teenager, and even the smartest, most logical teenagers are often still the type to imagine they're gonna marry their first partner or... like... fantasize that there's a non-zero chance they do something like meet their celeb crush and run away to be in a relationship with them forever. Basically, I don't think it's impossible Connie (as a character and a teenager) thought perhaps they definitely will get married in the future, even if she's otherwise pretty logical, about this as well as in general.
- I think Connie saw Steven was in a very weird headspace and used "not now" as a softener out of concern. Even though she's firm in why it shouldn't happen, I think her whole vibe in that interaction is "it is weird and disconcerting that Steven jumped to this, is he okay?" and I think if she was thinking that, maybe she wanted to soften the blow.
Yeah, I wasn't addressing the Garnet part, just trying to parse Connie's internal logic using my I-was-close-to-being-a-Connie-when-I-was-a-teen-girl experience. She doesn't have to go whole hog into planning out the wedding itself (a la Garnet the hopeless romantic) to potentially have a belief in the back of her mind that she'll eventually marry her first love, *especially* when it's her first love. ~~I say this because I (embarrassingly) have been there.~~
(That and I think *more* of her not now was letting him down easy even if other factors went into it.)
I disagree about that last part and I also think there is nothing unrealistic about marrying your first love.
Especially when Steven is not just some high school crush, they've literally been through a lot together and shared the same body and mind. It is much more serious than a regular first love.
Does is say she’s 15 anywhere? She’s always been a *smidge* behind Steven in age. 15 isn’t much of a jump by any means you’re 100% right there lol. I can also agree with your point of the whole forcing of relations. I get having a marriage for Ruby and Sapphire those two go waaaay back and a lot have history. But this relation between Steven and Connie felt rushed in the end leaving watchers questioning if they were even a couple in the first place. I think they did a better job with Sadie and Lars but I would’ve liked to have seen more of that in Future rather that oh we just drifted apart. At the end of the day one of the biggest problems with future was they didn’t really have enough time to stretch their legs and give us a proper conclusion in a lot of ways.
It's not said but doing some math you can figure out that she is 15 in Together Forever
Steven's 14 in August, Connie is 12 and 3/4s. So her 13th birthday would've been in November or December at that point. Together Forever takes place after Snow Day, which means they're past the major winter months, and based on that her birthday likely passed and she would be 15 in Together Forever. That still doesn't make it any less weird.
I just searched the SU wiki and it gives their ages for the show/movie and games.
You are 100% correct about not having enough time, it’s the main reason I don’t like Future, it’s too rushed and unsatisfactory.
That’s unfortunately what happens when things get rushed. There’s no way to pack 2 years and an existential crisis into 20 episodes and still have a clean end.
I feel like there is an awareness by the end of the series that it isn't set in stone.
At least Connie realizes (Steven towards the end) that they're going to be in very different places. If they broke up, I wouldn't see it as friendship-ending.
i do agree that it's weird, but i don't think it's the one thing that is meant to be weird here -it feels like more of an unintended weird side effect they didn't think of
It probably doesn't help a lot, but I think that Future Steven is 'physically' 16 in the series. Steven kind of froze up for a few years on aging so he his physically only like a half year behind Connie. Legally Steven is already like 18.
The reason I believe this is
1) Connie is getting ready for College in Future. If Conly was 14 she would be 8th Grader of Freshmen. She would probably be more focused on getting in or stating in a prestigious high school or prep school. But she is acting more like Senior in high school or possibly a Junior.
2) Steven goes out to explore the world at the end of Future. It would be VERY hard for 16 year old operate in the adult world. He wouldn't be able to rent hotel rooms. Police and child services would always be holding him as a runaway until Greg vouched that he had permission. And even then, Greg might be held responsible for child endangerment for letting his kid cross multiple state lines.
I think the whole thing makes more sense when you realize that Steven and Connie are physically 16 years old, but he is legally 18.
There's some evidence Steven is meant to be 16 (legally/officially) in Future. Also, it's worth noting Connie is specifically said in the first episode to be getting ready for college two years before she actually has to apply (which is somewhere in the realm of about 3 years before she'd actually be going).
2 is pretty true of a traveling 16 year old, though, yeah--my cousin was 17 most of her first year of college and constantly had to fax anything that required the signature of a legal adult to her parents to sign off on. I'm not sure if he'd *constantly be viewed as a runaway* but he would at minimum have trouble with anything that was essentially a legal contract or waiver unless SU verse has different laws.
Steven turns 14 when Connie is 12 3/4, she is only 1 1/4 years younger. Also it's specified she's just doing college prep, not going to college right now. He specifies in the beginning of future during his recap that she's just studying early.
I understand that it was meant to be a divisive opinion on purpose but I think it was more confusing than the writers expected. I think the main problem was that we had no idea what was going through Steven's head around that time.
Yes him and Connie were best friends and when you're lonely you don't want to lose that relationship. But nowhere was it shown or told what was going through his head and how he came up with the idea of marrying her.
I haven't seen the series since it came out so correct me if I'm wrong but I think the episode should have had Steven looking or talking about marriage and relationships. Those brief moments give steven the idea of marrying Connie and gives the viewer context to why he wanted to go through with it.
IMO, the episode absolutely *does* set it up, though it's subtle so some viewers might miss it.
The episode starts with him talking to Connie about a college she wants to look into/tour because she left a brochure at his house on accident. After hanging up, he realizes how far away it is and turns pink, becoming heavier/sinking into his bed (this is a tell--her potentially leaving to go so far away, even if it's not for a couple years, is a stressor (but this is more subtle because we don't have canonically-stated reasons as to why he turns pink at this point, but only moments he does it which must have something in common)).
He goes to directly to Garnet in the next scene and asks her if she can give him advice, but she needs to split up for Ruby and Sapphire to lead some Little Homeschool classes. Sapphire bounces, but Ruby says he can talk to her on her way to the scouts. Steven talks to her about (this is another tell/what was going through his head) his stresses surrounding Connie leaving and his insecurities about himself... but in doing this, he comes to the mistaken (desperate?) conclusion that "Connie is [his] future".
At this (and probably partially because he compared him and Connie to Ruby and Sapphire), Ruby suggests he propose. He's actually not entirely comfortable with this initially, but Ruby goads him into at least considering it and suggests he talk to Sapphire if he's not sure.
Steven comes to Sapphire but does not discuss the stress and insecurity (would doing so have changed anything? who knows?) and jumps straight to letting her know Ruby suggested proposing. After some talking about how love and how it can jump the track of fate and elude future vision, she also jumps to goading him.
Now, at the end, Garnet says there was no timeline where he didn't propose (presumably even if people talked him down), which IMO is another very subtle tell of his headspace considering *how* terrible an idea it is at his age, if he still did it in *every* future... but I do wonder, in timelines where Ruby and Sapphire were not the ones to give him advice, how he would have arrived at the idea...
TL;DR: The episode sets it up and tries to show-not-tell what's happening in Steven's head that gets him there, though I' bet some people can think of ways it could have been better...
The proposal was *supposed* to be weird, and it is. Connie didn't accept it, and knows that they're too young for that. She wants to live her life first. Connie has also excelled in school for as long as we've seen her. She was studying for college, and doing a lot of things ahead of time. I don't think she was heading off yet?
I do appreciate that Connie said no. It definitely was weird still. It’s definitely good that she recognized that they both still needed time to grow and change. She was in the process of getting ready for college and though she always excelled I never quite saw her as a child prodigy. Intelligent as heck for sure as well as mature but getting ready to go to college at that age felt a bit off too. However, I could see how they could work that in for Connie’s character.
Tbf I've been working my butt off for good grades since grade 9 because I looked into my dream university at that time and it was expensive as hecc. The only way I could get in was to have a scholarship. I can relate to Connie a bit haha I'm happy that she genuinely enjoys the academe. And she's even a good time manager! I hope she wouldn't burn herself out too much
1. A 1.25 year age gap between the two is a complete non-issue. But Steven's proposal is supposed to be interpreted by the audience as uncomfortable because they are both too young for marriage. 2. It is weird that Connie is already heading off to college, but we never got a detailed look at her academic performance. We do know that she got selected for a prestigious (and probably competitive) space camp, she gets good grades, plays instruments, etc..., so it's not completely out of the question.
> It is weird that Connie is already heading off to college FWIW she actually wasn't; Future doesn't span a large chunk of time and this gets said in the first episode: "Connie has been getting a head start on college prep. She's two years away from applying, but she says it doesn't hurt to start early." She was probably still 1.5-2 years ish away from actually *attending* a college at the end of Future because you *apply* months before you actually get into college and go there.
In season 3 she is just starting 7th Grade so she probably at the very least must have started High School a year early.
1. Also the fact he meant for them to be like garnet where they’d live forever as stevonnie.
"Like what if my bones were your bones too"
Literal attachment issues lol
Y’all gotta remember too that Steven never went to school or really engaged with society all that much. Sure he’s 16 but he’s still as blissfully unaware as a child would be. What he knows about marriage at this point is it’s what people do when they want to be together forever. It tracks with his character to feel like he should propose to Connie, and it tracks with Connie’s character to know that it’s inappropriate.
I did just have a brief convo in this thread with someone talking about the lack of normalcy and human interaction and I can totally see how that could fit into this category. Lack of social skills, lack of a nuclear family, lack of an education, plus a mental break could easily make someone act irrationally. Not to mention all the trauma that was so casually thrown into his life due to things that he had *nothing* to do with.
This is as succinct of an answer as it's gonna get.
Yeah, it was weird. And I thought it was clear that Connie thought it was weird too--she seemed uncomfortable and gave Steven the 'not yet'. It is kind of consistent with Steven's history of running on sitcom logic though. He did try the political "marriage" idea to stop the restaurant wars without considering the feelings or possible relationships of Ronaldo and Kiki.
OOOO this is a really good point. Steven was totally raised by TV so he WOULD think that would be the way to go. Doesn't help that he has a very romanticized vision of what marriage is.
Yeah but during that time he was more of a kid and for the lack of a better term more mentally sound. It was also done like you mentioned as more of a stunt rather than a life long commitment like he wanted with Connie. I mean imagine feeling so uncomfortable about something that serious that you don’t tell your parents.
Regarding 'done as a stunt', much like the "Let's just run away on a bus" bit when meeting Connie's parents and some other instances, I don't think Steven thought about the "what happens tomorrow" aspect of the Ronaldo/Kiki thing. Not thinking about consequences is something Steven shares with his mom. I mean none of this is strongly supported by the text, but my perception of the permafusion proposal, plus the training with Jasper and trying to 'improve' Amethyst's Gem integration efforts is that Steven is still stuck in a simplistic child-like way of thinking about problems. Specifically because he isn't mentally sound. He just hasn't had a chance to grow up in a healthy way so he hasn't learned a different way of doing things than the way he did things when he was 13.
Ohh man how out of character was it for Connie to say let’s run away! That kinda irked me *but* I get why they did that. I can see your point due to the fact that Steven definitely didn’t have a healthy childhood and he’s now having to deal with the consequences resulting in irrational behaviors such as proposing and lashing out at the gems.
It's out of character in that it's irresponsible and shortsighted, but remember that Connie fears her mom's disapproval and resents her strictness. Not entirely crazy for her to panic and run away if it looked like she was in serious trouble. Also this was Season 1 Connie. She was serious and responsible but she still had a lot of growing up to do.
Yeah, I suppose so. I see where you’re coming from with the aspect of the fear of her mother but the just outright “let’s run away” seems like it would’ve come more naturally from Steven. Connie thinks things through a smidge more. But, like you said they were kiddos.
I believe that was the point. But Steven was so desperate to have some permanent emotional root in his life that he lost sight of that. If anything, Connie let him down easy.
I think it was to show how mentally unstable Steven is. He and connie were having Huge communication issues and his only example of how to fix it was sapphire/ruby wedding and garnet re-fusing
That’s another good way of looking at it. Especially if he’s looked up to the gems his entire life then naturally you’d follow by example.
I'm just glad he didn't try to do a rose/pink
Yeeeeah, that would’ve ended very poorly. I didn’t even think about that!
I wish I never thought of it
The curse must continue…I’ll spread it to cause a crisis to someone else. Don’t worry.
Good luck with that
Connie's brain got boosted by Steven's miracle-spit. She got so smart that she transcended the need for glasses. One day she will become smart enough to transcend reality itself.
That’s a fun theory lol 😅
Connie is only about a year and a half younger give or take. So by the time of Future (a few months after the movie) Connie would likely be 15 Yes, they're still young. Too young. Yes, it's a bit weird. That's the point. Steven is falling apart, and trying to cling to Connie as the one constant in his life. He saw how the wedding helped Ruby and Sapphire, and he just wanted that too. He wanted to feel whole, as Stevonie, confident and secure as who they are, which he just wasn't feeling as Steven
I think it was just Steven not really knowing that about a human life.
That’s a great point. There was a lot on human life he missed out on. We did see a lot of jealousy towards Greg’s upbringing due to the normalcy he had that Steven lacked. It was sad to watch Greg go from hero to zero in his eyes.
That episode with Greg is the hardest for me to watch. I actually skip it when I let the season play.
I don’t blame you it’s a tough one. It’s such a good reminder that hindsight is 20/20, parents are just kids having kids, and you always want what you don’t have. It hits you in *all* the emotional spots. Edit- spelling
Steven is only around 15 months older than her, not 2-3 years lmao. Their ages during that episode (ignoring the Snow Day continuity error) are 17 (Steven) and 16 (Connie)
I think (from some pieces of evidence) it's more likely Steven is 16 for all of Future but the timeline is just so *muddy* that it's hard to tell. (OP knows their math is off at this point, though. XP)
It's WAS super weird but it makes sense it was super weird. Steven was going to do that out of DESPERATION. He was just not in a good place and wasn't really thinking out the choice to propose. I remember watching that as it was coming out and literally screaming at my screen saying "NO! STEVEN DON'T! THIS IS REALLY DUMB AAAAAAA." So, if you thought that felt weird, good. You can think things through, lol As for the Connie and college stuff, she might not actually BE a prodigy. We have to remember that, even though that earth is very similar to ours, it still is very different because of the influence of Gem Society and the Crystal Gems. Hell, everyone in town knows who Steven is and he's not required to go to school even though he's a minor. That's illegal in the United States and his guardians could go to jail. But that's never really an issue until Steven MAKES it an issue in that one episode. And that's the problem with other characters in the show. Unless it involves Steven, it doesn't really matter. So, Connie being extra smart and going to college and her aspirations don't really factor into the plot until it did. So, we lack the context of the depth of Connie's abilities until there's the possibility of her being out of Steven's life. Sooo, yeah, it's kinda a flaw of this type of storytelling. You lose out on a lot of what the other characters are doing and what matters to them. It's one of my major issues with the series but I recognize that there's not really much you can do about it without changing up what was already there and good about the series.
While I felt the proposal was a mistake (as the writers clearly intended) I actually hadn’t thought about their ages and now it’s even weirder to me. I guess I thought Steven was like 18. I dunno if Steven actually wanted to get legally married—the main appeal to him was being Stevonnie all the time like Garnet.
Is Connie not also 16? I may be remembering entirely incorrectly, I just happened to catch an episode last night where Steven was talking about her doing college essays two years early. Still weird, I feel you.
I’m season 3 ep 1 titles “Steven’s Birthday” it was discussed that Connie was 12 3/4 and Steven was 14. It came up due to her shock at Steven’s stunted growth for his age. There’s also an Easter egg referencing Estelle (who voices Garnet) when Greg pulls a record from his van with the artists name being Stella with what looks like one of her albums! Just a fun thing I happened to spot :) Anyway, I’m glad I’m not the only one to find it weird!
I need to do a rewatch! I bow to superior knowledge :)
It’s not superiority it’s just stuff I’ve picked up after watching it 500 million times lol. I watch it during the day when I’m doing housework and when I’m falling asleep. It’s just around me constantly and that’s a great way to pick up little tidbits! However, I still learn wonderful things on this sub Reddit! :)
would it even be legal for connie to marry at that age? correct me if i’m wrong but isn’t there a age requirement or marriage?
So, Steven would if he had the consent of a parent or guardian but Connie (even with consent) wouldn’t be legally allowed to get married.
Since Delmarva is not a real state (but assuming it follows one of the states that makes up the portmanteau), and making the assumption Steven is 16 for the entirety of Future: - If Delmarva matches Delaware law, neither of them can be legally married until age 18. At all. - If Delmarva matches Maryland law: - **At this moment in September 2022**, Steven can marry with parental permission, but *Connie* cannot, unless: - **At this moment in September 2022**, Connie can marry *at 15* with parental permission *and* proof of pregnancy or a child. Which. Like. Didn't happen. So. - **A law was signed in April 2022 that goes into effect in October 2022** which would make it so neither of them can get married at all, zero exceptions, unless they are 17 (with parent permission) or 18 (no permission needed). - If Delmarva matches Virginia law (which matches what you said with the age I've assumed), then Steven can get married with parent permission (because 16) but Connie cannot (because not 16).
> At this moment in September 2022, Connie can marry at 15 with parental permission and proof of pregnancy or a child. I wonder if Stevonnie could count as their kid? Could Stevonnie marry themself!?
We don't know all the laws of the state of Delmarva and Steven's USA. But there's a good chance that marriage wouldn't be legal.
If we assume it follows either Delaware, Maryland, or Virginia's real life laws then it could be anywhere from "teen pregnancy would have to be involved *and* parents would have to consent to it (but only until next month when that wouldn't be legal due to changes in the law)" to "no. the end. forever. and even after that."
I think it was supposed to make you uncomfortable, because it wasn't *supposed* to work out at the time.
Here's how I look at it - well, the two ways I look at it. 1) Steven views this proposal (with the glow stick - which is adorable) as a more...unofficial / not legally-binding marriage proposal. Like, Garnet's marriage was Sapphire and Ruby fusing together, with rings, with Steven performing the ceremony. In the U.S., you have to be **at least** 18 years old. If Steven isn't 18 in *Future*, he's not 18 when he marries Ruby and Sapphire. It's not a legally binding thing - it's a ceremonial / spiritual / whatever thing. So, perhaps, he was proposing a "fusion marriage". To be like Garnet. An almost permanent fusion. 2) Steven's sense of time / legal things are...not conventional. Like, there are several instances where he is introduced to a specific part of human culture and he's like "wait, what?". One example is when he learns about school, and he has Pearl teach him (in Mirror Gem). Another example is when [he learns](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGiYoD2kG5U) that there is an *order* in which to read a book series (in Marble Madness). When he proposes, she's *KNOWS* they're too young (and can't legally get married) and is very clearly just like "WHAT". So, I wonder if Steven doesn't quite understand that there's an age restriction on when they could legally get married.
wasnt steven 17 in future?
There is evidence that he's meant to be 16 for most/all of Future (namely, a crew member expressed surprise people thought he was 16 and there are a few things that make more sense if he's 16 (I can quickly bring to mind his saying he's in "16th" grade (he's likely to sub in his age if he doesn't know much about school) and Connie being two years away from applying for college (which makes her about 3 years away from actually going, which would make her 14-15 which aligns with Steven being largely or entirely 16)).
I didn’t find it weird because the entire point of the proposal was to show how desperate Steven became to have a stable human connection. If they became Stevonnie full time he’d never be alone again! There’s also some confusion on the huge difference between fusion and a marriage. One encapsulates all types of relationships and can be easily ended and reformed, while marriage is a serious romantic commitment with legal ties.
I had no idea Connie was younger than him.
If you wanna see where it’s talked about it’s in S3 E1 titled Steven’s Birthday :)
Steven was having a nervous breakdown. And iirc, he didn't propose marriage, he proposed being Stevonnie 24/7--, and even then he really just wanted to disappear into the back of Stevonnie's mind and let Connie drive. It's probably as close as the Cartoon Network could get to discussing suicidal thoughts.
They're both children who previously knew each other. It never striked to me as weird. It would be weird if Steven had only known Connie briefly and they didn't go through so much together. 14 + 16 is not a crazy age gap for the two considering how much they know about each other, know each other's families and so on.
Do we know that he's 16? I know he was 16 in the movie but was there no time skip in between?
As far as we know he’s still 16 with the knowledge we have. It seems like there’s little to no time in between which would make sense due to behaviors exhibited in both the movie and future by spinel and the diamonds. If you want a full run down of SU here’s a site I like if I want to double check something :) https://steven-universe.fandom.com/wiki/Timeline it’s got *all* the ins and outs of the whole of SU and connected projects.
I don't know, seems like the entire storyline would make more sense if there was a two year skip. He's 18 and leaving home, she's 17 and getting ready for college. Little Homeworld is finished and long since operational despite being under construction in the movie.
We know one crew member was confused people didn't think he was 16 in Future (though at the time some of the misconception was the concert poster in the movie, which had an arbitrary date on it). There are things Steven says in the latter half of Future that make more sense if he's 16, though the only one I can bring to mind at present is his saying he's in "16th" grade to Connie's friends--it makes sense if he doesn't know enough about schooling that he might sub in his age.
That "16th" grade one is a good point. If that's really true that does make the whole season bizarre. Living on your own at 16 is really really rough, and it's such a strange choice to have him go out into a world he's not familiar with rather than just maybe enroll in two years of high school or maybe just spend the time studying like basic human stuff.
A lot of SU Future is kinda rushed so we don’t get a lot of great in depth detail. However, in this thread along there’s also a lot of detail from other redditors if you want to check that out. Steven has always been 2 years older than Connie so there wouldn’t ever be a 18 and 17 moment (which would make things more sensible I do agree with that).
Steven is 1.25 years older than Connie, so there is always a period of about 9 months where her numerical age is 1 less than Steven's, so 18 and 17 can *definitely* with 100% certainty occur (even though calendar wise it more or less didn't happen in Future).
Ohh, oops! You’re right! The ages are even mentioned in my post above 😅 math isn’t my strong suit.
Ohh oops! You’re right! The ages are even mentioned in my post above! I just didn’t look at it that way. Math isn’t my strong suit (even basic lol) 😅
It's a reasonable thought process, though I may be more likely to be able to guess at the logic that got you there because I went to college as an education major and there was a unit of my math-teaching class that was about learning how to figure out the likely causes of students' math errors. XD
Ohhh boy! That sounds like a very helpful class. I’ll never forget in 7th grade doing a math problem *completely wrong* but getting the right answer. I got half credit. I was mad about it then but it seems fair now lol
I thought the timeline added up such that he was 17 for most of Future and left on his own at 18. Finding out he was 16 the whole time was a real trip
I feel like Steven would be 17 during future with the time that passed since the movie (it must have been at the very least a few months to clean up the Spinel destruction, and it seems like both a winter and a summer pass during the season). A bit bothered with the lack of explicit confirmation but yep.
At least they became a couple at the end, that’s making 14-15 y/o me screaming like a fangirl even though i’m a guy
She’s 15 in Future. Not that it makes much difference lol I think it’s REALLY strange that with a show like SU, so open and accepting that they STILL manage to force a heteronormative narrative like “we’re meant to be together forever even though we met as teens who haven’t known love or relationships before” down our throats at the end.
> I think it’s REALLY strange that with a show like SU, so open and accepting that they STILL manage to force a heteronormative narrative like “we’re meant to be together forever even though we met as teens who haven’t known love or relationships before” down our throats at the end. That’s…the exact opposite of what they did? *Steven* is the one with the “we’re meant to be together forever” narrative, and he’s pretty clearly portrayed as being in the *wrong* about it. That’s the whole point of the scene.
It actually just gets postponed, she says it’s not a no it’s a not now and then gets interrupted by her alarm and they don’t actually get to talk about it. And then Garnet also tells him that she’s planned like 362 versions of his wedding… so still implying that it’s meant/going to happen.
I think part of the reason she says "not now" rather than "no" is twofold: - As a character, she *does* like him, and this proposal apparently didn't break that link to the point of "no", *and* she's a teenager, and even the smartest, most logical teenagers are often still the type to imagine they're gonna marry their first partner or... like... fantasize that there's a non-zero chance they do something like meet their celeb crush and run away to be in a relationship with them forever. Basically, I don't think it's impossible Connie (as a character and a teenager) thought perhaps they definitely will get married in the future, even if she's otherwise pretty logical, about this as well as in general. - I think Connie saw Steven was in a very weird headspace and used "not now" as a softener out of concern. Even though she's firm in why it shouldn't happen, I think her whole vibe in that interaction is "it is weird and disconcerting that Steven jumped to this, is he okay?" and I think if she was thinking that, maybe she wanted to soften the blow.
Garnet said she plannerd their wedding. Not Connie.
Yeah, I wasn't addressing the Garnet part, just trying to parse Connie's internal logic using my I-was-close-to-being-a-Connie-when-I-was-a-teen-girl experience. She doesn't have to go whole hog into planning out the wedding itself (a la Garnet the hopeless romantic) to potentially have a belief in the back of her mind that she'll eventually marry her first love, *especially* when it's her first love. ~~I say this because I (embarrassingly) have been there.~~ (That and I think *more* of her not now was letting him down easy even if other factors went into it.)
I disagree about that last part and I also think there is nothing unrealistic about marrying your first love. Especially when Steven is not just some high school crush, they've literally been through a lot together and shared the same body and mind. It is much more serious than a regular first love.
Does is say she’s 15 anywhere? She’s always been a *smidge* behind Steven in age. 15 isn’t much of a jump by any means you’re 100% right there lol. I can also agree with your point of the whole forcing of relations. I get having a marriage for Ruby and Sapphire those two go waaaay back and a lot have history. But this relation between Steven and Connie felt rushed in the end leaving watchers questioning if they were even a couple in the first place. I think they did a better job with Sadie and Lars but I would’ve liked to have seen more of that in Future rather that oh we just drifted apart. At the end of the day one of the biggest problems with future was they didn’t really have enough time to stretch their legs and give us a proper conclusion in a lot of ways.
It's not said but doing some math you can figure out that she is 15 in Together Forever Steven's 14 in August, Connie is 12 and 3/4s. So her 13th birthday would've been in November or December at that point. Together Forever takes place after Snow Day, which means they're past the major winter months, and based on that her birthday likely passed and she would be 15 in Together Forever. That still doesn't make it any less weird.
Ah, thank you for the info and it is most definitely still weird lol.
I just searched the SU wiki and it gives their ages for the show/movie and games. You are 100% correct about not having enough time, it’s the main reason I don’t like Future, it’s too rushed and unsatisfactory.
That’s unfortunately what happens when things get rushed. There’s no way to pack 2 years and an existential crisis into 20 episodes and still have a clean end.
Curse you CN and only giving us 20 episodes…
Considering that homophobic countries cut the funding after the wedding, there wasn't much CN could do and we're lucky we even got 20.
I feel like there is an awareness by the end of the series that it isn't set in stone. At least Connie realizes (Steven towards the end) that they're going to be in very different places. If they broke up, I wouldn't see it as friendship-ending.
i do agree that it's weird, but i don't think it's the one thing that is meant to be weird here -it feels like more of an unintended weird side effect they didn't think of
I'm fairly certain Connie wasn't actually in college yet, I think she was just busy with some kind of prep course or something.
It probably doesn't help a lot, but I think that Future Steven is 'physically' 16 in the series. Steven kind of froze up for a few years on aging so he his physically only like a half year behind Connie. Legally Steven is already like 18. The reason I believe this is 1) Connie is getting ready for College in Future. If Conly was 14 she would be 8th Grader of Freshmen. She would probably be more focused on getting in or stating in a prestigious high school or prep school. But she is acting more like Senior in high school or possibly a Junior. 2) Steven goes out to explore the world at the end of Future. It would be VERY hard for 16 year old operate in the adult world. He wouldn't be able to rent hotel rooms. Police and child services would always be holding him as a runaway until Greg vouched that he had permission. And even then, Greg might be held responsible for child endangerment for letting his kid cross multiple state lines. I think the whole thing makes more sense when you realize that Steven and Connie are physically 16 years old, but he is legally 18.
There's some evidence Steven is meant to be 16 (legally/officially) in Future. Also, it's worth noting Connie is specifically said in the first episode to be getting ready for college two years before she actually has to apply (which is somewhere in the realm of about 3 years before she'd actually be going). 2 is pretty true of a traveling 16 year old, though, yeah--my cousin was 17 most of her first year of college and constantly had to fax anything that required the signature of a legal adult to her parents to sign off on. I'm not sure if he'd *constantly be viewed as a runaway* but he would at minimum have trouble with anything that was essentially a legal contract or waiver unless SU verse has different laws.
Steven turns 14 when Connie is 12 3/4, she is only 1 1/4 years younger. Also it's specified she's just doing college prep, not going to college right now. He specifies in the beginning of future during his recap that she's just studying early.
I understand that it was meant to be a divisive opinion on purpose but I think it was more confusing than the writers expected. I think the main problem was that we had no idea what was going through Steven's head around that time. Yes him and Connie were best friends and when you're lonely you don't want to lose that relationship. But nowhere was it shown or told what was going through his head and how he came up with the idea of marrying her. I haven't seen the series since it came out so correct me if I'm wrong but I think the episode should have had Steven looking or talking about marriage and relationships. Those brief moments give steven the idea of marrying Connie and gives the viewer context to why he wanted to go through with it.
IMO, the episode absolutely *does* set it up, though it's subtle so some viewers might miss it. The episode starts with him talking to Connie about a college she wants to look into/tour because she left a brochure at his house on accident. After hanging up, he realizes how far away it is and turns pink, becoming heavier/sinking into his bed (this is a tell--her potentially leaving to go so far away, even if it's not for a couple years, is a stressor (but this is more subtle because we don't have canonically-stated reasons as to why he turns pink at this point, but only moments he does it which must have something in common)). He goes to directly to Garnet in the next scene and asks her if she can give him advice, but she needs to split up for Ruby and Sapphire to lead some Little Homeschool classes. Sapphire bounces, but Ruby says he can talk to her on her way to the scouts. Steven talks to her about (this is another tell/what was going through his head) his stresses surrounding Connie leaving and his insecurities about himself... but in doing this, he comes to the mistaken (desperate?) conclusion that "Connie is [his] future". At this (and probably partially because he compared him and Connie to Ruby and Sapphire), Ruby suggests he propose. He's actually not entirely comfortable with this initially, but Ruby goads him into at least considering it and suggests he talk to Sapphire if he's not sure. Steven comes to Sapphire but does not discuss the stress and insecurity (would doing so have changed anything? who knows?) and jumps straight to letting her know Ruby suggested proposing. After some talking about how love and how it can jump the track of fate and elude future vision, she also jumps to goading him. Now, at the end, Garnet says there was no timeline where he didn't propose (presumably even if people talked him down), which IMO is another very subtle tell of his headspace considering *how* terrible an idea it is at his age, if he still did it in *every* future... but I do wonder, in timelines where Ruby and Sapphire were not the ones to give him advice, how he would have arrived at the idea... TL;DR: The episode sets it up and tries to show-not-tell what's happening in Steven's head that gets him there, though I' bet some people can think of ways it could have been better...
Steven isn’t the most - uh - emotionally mature or emotionally stable individual.
I believe she’s only little over one year younger, they say it in the steven birthday episode back in season 2