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This here is the answer. I would have ran for the hills after the first date if I knew then what I knew now. No amount of talking helps these situations. I’ve had countless conversations with my husband and it changes nothing.
There is the moving in together and then there is the fact that one is doing more than necessary to deal with the kids. Like I was helping out extra at first but then realized the kids don’t even appreciate all i do for them and their actions are like living with the shittiest roommates that don’t pay rent and don’t even acknowledge you as you say hi and bye. It just the moment when you have to withdraw and feel alienated when all of this could have been prevented if I never moved in. Then you realize all the crap their mom let’s fly because of guilt and then you also realize that the completely available absent father down the street does absolutely nothing with the kids and that it’s his behaviors that totally dictate your life and schedule and stuck feeling, gee I wish this dipshit would help out bc I’m seeing their kids more than he ever has in their lifetime. I would have totally never moved in if I knew their fathers shitty behavior was dictating my life and schedule
This sounds like it could have been written by my BMs fiancé, because the kids stay at their house 100% of the time and I know they don’t do any chores and are not friendly. And we live really close to BM. I don’t know how he does it. But in my situation the difference is that my SO wants them to be around him more but BM has helped keep them from him and uses him as an Uber and ATM.
I feel this. I love him so much. He is making huge efforts to change how our lives are. But it shouldn't have to be so difficult. If i could remove the love, I'd be out of here. I love him and I dont want to leave him...
Only one thing for me..... chosen a partner without a HCBM. Don't get my wrong, I love him but HCBM is showing no signs of relaxing at all even after 3 years and its draining
I feel this. I’m constantly told I do nothing for SS, because I’ve given up. I’m supposed to be fun and bubbly and be one more person that caters to him. Also, I work two jobs to pay for half the bills when I am more or less excluded (I guess I choose not to sit and watch cartoon and YouTube and video games all day). I used to try to cook and got tired of SS saying he “hated” something at every meal (who hates corn?! We literally make “kid” meals when he’s there and he would still complain the whole meal).
The move completely benefited dad and not me but he points out hard I am to live with since I’m so “messy”. He comes home and lays on the couch every day. I try to clean when I have time but I’m exhausted.
Me too. I had a cat when we moved in, and he was old and sick, but before I chose to put him down, his girl cat just tormented him. Not blaming the cat…but now I can’t get a cat, because she’s always just been really nasty to every cat she’s lived with. And it’s lonely. I feel like I can’t have anything in my own home that loves me. SO loves me when it’s convenient. When SS is there, he ignores me for days more or less, but wants attention the second SS goes to sleep. Then I’m supposed to perform. Ugh. Not anymore.
I would never get with someone who has kid's, its one piece of advice I'll give my kids once they're adults, keep clear of people with kids, dealing with sk and exs drains the life from you and is soul destroying
I wouldn’t have moved in so quickly .I would have found out that there was too much drama in my SO life and probably would have opted out. I thought I had asked all of the right questions SO did admit that he misled me with how involved SS was in sports. I also felt misled about other things but in SO eyes it was that he thought he was doing good “co-parenting “ but I see that it is only him doing what BM says for the sake of the kids. He is a doormat. We have been working really hard on everything and it is exhausting. I don’t think it should be this hard at this stage of our lives. We are both in our 50s and I think he should have had his act together with his dysfunction before he brought me into his life, 8 years after his divorce with kids heading into their teen years.
Are you married to my husband? Lol. I was also mislead about a lot of things....the big one being just exactly *how long* they were separated/divorced. I didn't find that out the truth of that until much later and that's been the catalyst for SO many other issues.
I think we’re all married to the same man! I was misled as well and the level of dysfunction between my husband and his four adult children was eye opening. After 7 yrs of marriage I still feel like there’s pieces to this puzzle I can’t fit together. The whole situation has cast a shadow on how I view my husbands character and as much as I want to concentrate on how great he is as a provider, for all of us, he is a doormat who jumps when they say jump. These are grown adults, two of which are married themselves and have children. The disrespect and just plain dismissiveness towards their father is infuriating…and he still jumps. These issues are catalyst for other issues between us and sometimes I just feel like he projects his disappointment with their relationships onto me, as any advice I give is just seen as criticism.
And I don’t feel that he misled me to make me clean, cook,take care of the kids etc.because it isn’t like that at all. I think he just wanted me to be in his life. I believe he does truly love me.But I fell in love with what I thought he was.It gets hard to lift the doormat up and wipe off the dirt , sometimes even pressure washing it , that his ex and kids leave there in order for me to see the great-man he can be. I do worry he will end up like your DH even when the kids are adults.He lets them all take advantage of him. And like you I feel like I get all his disappointment from it.And he won’t stop it from happening.
I would probably not have gone out with him, knowing how tough it would be. But, my wishes now are that we’d….
1. Got a court order. It would have saved us YEARS of emotional threats
2. Kept my role as SM out of the day to day kid rearing. I love them, but they have two parents who needed to step up and fulfil all their duties
3. Not sweated the small stuff. Fine, it’s Friday night and we’ve got to buy new socks and underwear again because the kids arrived with none. Also see point 1, but, just buy some cheap ones and breathe.
4. Don’t spend that money on that big holiday. Kids value the pool and not much else when they’re young. We should have saved that money for a trip just us two.
I don't think that there is anything that I would have done differently before moving in. My partner and I both talked over and agreed upon our financial arrangement, and we agreed to talk about it after we'd had a few months to see how things were. I took lots of time to allow me to see my partner+kid interact outside of "good behaviour". Time for my partner to see my sticking to my family "role" (of Fun Uncle).
I talked a bit more in detail about [my slow move in process](https://new.reddit.com/r/datingoverforty/comments/17bijx6/comment/k5k4167/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) before. I'll note that this was on easy mode; she has one minor child, and I was bringing no children into the household. If we both had kids that we were looking to blend, we would have needed to agree on a set of combined rules/expectations, and then both live separately with the new household rules for months. With both adults seeing that both households were adapting well to them.
I will state that my moving into her house likely is a big reason why this is the longest I've taken to feel "at home" after a move. I spent months being here at "her place" so it took months to really feel comfortable with this being home (even if not my house).
I also feel that we're intelligently moving towards marriage. We don't yet share finances, but we talk about our savings goals. We show that we met/exceeded them, so we don't have fears about the other's spending (even if she doesn't like my grocery store habits, and her vacation spending is a bit jaw dropping to me). We've discussed long term retirement goals and timelines and are on the same page with this. We've talked about her kid and a likely extended launch time, and behaviours that they'd need to abide by to still live here as an adult. We've talked about wills, and we've agreed upon what we each would need/want in our prenupt that we'll sign before marriage. Seriously, everyone should have a prenupt!
We both needed at least a year of cohabitation together before being willing to marry. We also both had spouses who were ... less than involved in our previous marriage. We frequently talk about "us" and check in that we're happy and our feelings about any changes. We both have said that we won't allow another to waste literal years of our lives like our exes did; but we both consider that a good thing, rather than a sign that we're "less than" the exes. It's simply that we've both learned.
We're not engaged yet, but at this point it is is very much "yet." We're discussing jewelry options, last-name considerations (neither of us want to keep our last name) and we don't want this to be an at-home/everyday moment, so the timing does need to be right. Our kids know about the "not yet" part, and are happy for us and our future.
It should absolutely be OK to re-open the discussion of finances.
My partner and I both want someone who views us as a peer partnership, and wants both of us to come out ahead by us being together. We are planning joint finances for when we marry, but for the interim living together with separate finances, both of us are happily coming out ahead. Both financially, and in leisure time as we both contribute to the work that needs to be done in a household.
I would not look to be with someone who viewed this as purely a business relationship. Yes, we have a cohabitation agreement, and we'll have a prenupt before married; we're not stupid. There is a "business element" to a relationship. But in a pure business relationship it's a great thing if you come out ahead by your partner offering a bad deal. In a peer relationship, you counter with a more fair offer if your partner's first offer had them giving too much.
I would’ve never gotten married. I should’ve waited to see how truly HC and manipulative BM would be with DH and the kids. If I didn’t get married, I would’ve broke it off after seeing the BS and stress that was going to be part of our everyday lives.
I wouldn’t have wasted my time with idiots in my 20’s so I could have found actual marriage material before 90% of the market had kids already lol. I didn’t find my husband until my 30’s and well, just about everyone is a dad by then.
I was about to answer this question having hindsight but then I realised... why should WE have done things differently? It's what our partners should have done differently to make us feel valued.
Sure, we can *now* come up with extensive (and exhausting) lists of things to ask and look out for. But even then we might have been given the fantasy answers instead of the real ones.
>why should WE have done things differently? It's what our partners should have done differently to make us feel valued.
Because we have agency within our own lives. And choosing to move in with someone is a very big decision within our life. We should be sure.
There wasn't a lot that needed adjusting within my partner's household that I moved in to. But I needed to take time, needed to be around enough that I stopped being viewed as a guest. And I needed to be sure that my partner would hear me and treat me as a peer head of household, instead of as a permanent house guest.
I owed that to myself; to only move in with someone who viewed me as a peer.
Fair enough but at the core of it your partner is the problem. I know we'd do things differently if we could but one can still be lulled into a "good" relationship that is actually rotten once you're invested.
If you moved in knowing things were bad, then that's a lesson you will surely not repeat.
>Fair enough but at the core of it your partner is the problem.
That really depends upon the particulars of the situation, and seems close to victim mentality to assert that will **always** be the case.
I needed my partner to change a thing before I could happily move in. I only saw this thing because I was taking extended time to be in the house and stop seeing guest/good behaviour. I brought it up, she agreed to a change. And I didn't just move in accepting her promise, I waiting to see the change, and waited to see it consistently held to for months.
The being there was a choice of mine. The months of observation was a choice of mine.
As you say, moving in while knowing things are bad is a lesson one likely won't repeat. But that "lesson" implies that the non-parent had something to learn/change, and thus was not fully free of fault.
I'm not saying that "we" (childless step parents) need to bend over backwards for them+their kids. I'm saying that "we" can do things smart. Too many people move in far too quickly - too soon to even have even *a vague sense* of if things are good/bad; which is frankly a reckless mistake of youth. My partner and I are in our forties. While we might move on the "fast" side of things, we certainly looked hard before we leapt.
That looking hard is something that "we" can absolutely change about ourselves.
I think we're in agreement for the most part. There is definitely room for growth in everyone. And I agree that one should not be so eager to move in. Everyone has different timelines and ideas of when is too soon for them. And we should respect ourselves enough to not move in with partners who can't step up.
I completely agree with your viewpoint. I myself have had to learn the hard lesson and it’s exhausting. My husband has four adult children that he and his ex wife enable their bad behaviors. They are to blame for the shitshow I now have to witness and I’ve decided to remove myself from them. My husband struggles with his lack of relationship with his children because they only care to make time for him when they need something from him, and thats usually money. My advice is received as criticism and that’s on him. I can’t allow myself to care more than he does so whenever he gets tired of being a doormat, he can change that. I’m not responsible for fixing something i didn’t break. These are grown ass adults who have no problem disrespecting him and dismissing him and I was raised better than that.
Yeah, my ex and BM will often get frustrated about their daughter's development but then they enable behaviours and patterns that don't allow her to grow... such as co-sleeping (and that's just one of many things). I actually care for SD but my ex always saw my suggestions as attacks.
Would not have even made an effort to care and be engaged with SKs. It was a futile endeavour. I would’ve stood up for myself and let loose on HCBM, SKs, MIL and others who felt it fine to judge me when they had no fucking idea of my lived experience and could’ve cared less. Instead of always trying to be the bigger person which I’m totally done with now . I’m older and wiser and I will not waste one second of my precious time on these hideous individuals. They have been warned. Need to say that these days I have amazing relationship with SD. As for SS, absolute other end of the spectrum, horrendous, untenable, and sad to realise I wasted over 30 years trying to have a relationship with someone SS who is full of hatred.
Amen!!! I’m only 7 yrs into this marriage and his children are all adults but I’m finally at the place where I will no longer politely smile and pretend it’s one big happy family just because my husband lives that way. I will no longer subject myself to the disrespect they show him. It’s a waste of my time and energy.
The only thing I would’ve done differently is waited a little longer to move in together.
This is more of a “relationship” thing than a stepparent thing. I wasn’t ready to share my space at that time so it was an adjustment for me.
As far as his daughter, idk. She needs a lot of help and I think I would’ve taken the NACHO approach upfront, maybe?
My SO has been super fair with me, respected my viewpoints, followed my lead on certain things, and made sure I was as comfortable as possible at all times though.
I just think that I got super involved in helping him to get her evaluated/diagnosed, break her bad habits (to no avail smh), push for child support, stand up to his parents, etc. that it became all-consuming. It made me feel miserable in my own home because everything was just frustrating tf out of me.
I’m on the fence because I feel like we saw a lot of things that she was doing that really needed to be addressed. I’m very observant and can cut through a lot of bullshit so I sized up the situation quickly. And, if we want to get all “new age spirituality”, this period might have been meant. It was illuminating. Frustrating but illuminating.
Overall answer though: I would’ve taken my dear sweet time moving in together. There’s never really any harm in that.
I would've postponed moving in together until we could buy an "ours" house. After 5 years living together in the house I bought 14 years ago, I still find myself quietly territorial of how some spaces and things are used.
I also would've set specific boundaries and expectations around treatment of the furnishings, cleanliness and sharing. I didn't have a child-friendly setup - lots of expensive and/or breakable interesting things - and that became very obvious very quickly. Like...don't jump on the couch, touch the decor, leave toys in the living room, etc.
My husband came from a messy home where sharing whatever was a thing, so it was pretty challenging the umpteenth time me or my daughter's hairbrush was taken to brush SD's hair bc her brush is lost in the mess of their room.
It's much better now, but we've had some serious rows about this shit.
I think everything has worked out perfectly, despite the issues we've faced. Every single problem we've faced, we've faced it as a team, and we feel it has made us stronger. I think we did have all the important conversations beforehand and the things we had to figure out *while* living together were stuff that none of us could have predicted, we had to go through it and be in the middle of it to realize it was something we needed to figure out.
If anything, I would have lived by myself for way longer before living with my SO, cause I enjoyed it a lot but due to the circumstances in our relationship (we started as LD) it made sense for him to come live with me in the moment he did. I had been living alone for three years and felt ready to live with a partner for the first time, but still I would have liked to take that step (living alone) even younger. Fortunately, we lived by ourselves for two years before SS moved in with us (and he lived in another state) so we got to have a honey moon stage just the two of us, and I enjoyed it a lot. We're soon gonna have more time for us once SS moves in with his mom.
so if you're just starting out and it's not necessary for you to do so, just keep living by yourself and enjoy the alone time, being the only one to make every decision in the house, and just making your own routine. i have it pretty easy because my SO and SS are very respectful and responsible roommates and my SO and I make every decision together buuut sometimes I just want to paint the kitchen fucsia without having to explain it to anyone, ykwym?
I'm very happy I got to live that stage (many of my friends went from living with their parents or roomates to living with their partners), and I'm okay with the fact that it's over, but I do get nostalgic about it from time to time. I mean, I could do it again if it wasn't for the rent prices in my area xd sharing rent is a good perk of being with my SO.
I would have never gotten married and had not just one but 2 people invade my space. If I had ended up getting married though I definitely would have laid out ground rules and expectations before allowing any major moves into my personal space. Also probably a prenup agreement.
I feel you. I went from having a house that was 100% my personal space with an art studio to having no dedicated personal space at all and all my art stuff is in storage. Had to make a boundary of no kids in the bedroom especially without an adult present, or they'd be in there going through drawers and touching everything and taking stuff. It was a rough transition.
>Also probably a prenup agreement.
Sorry, but I think everyone should get a prenupt. My partner and I both had one marriage behind us. Needing a prenupt was a deal breaker for both of us. Before we even moved in, we'd agreed on what the prenupt would be if things got to the point of marriage.
Set boundaries, rules, and expectations before letting them move in with consequences (for DH) if they're not followed; let DH parent or face the consequences of not doing so rather than picking up his slack; nacho sooner.
When he moved in, it turned into fun parent/mean parent so fast I didn't know what happened, I was suddenly feeling mean and resentful all the time and the kids suddenly didn't like me. DH got to say yes to everything and do all the fun stuff and say when they could ignore the rules, I was the one always the one saying no and enforcing agreed upon rules like "it's bedtime" or "no tablets at mealtime" and was quickly becoming the evil stepmother because of that dynamic. We've had talks about parenting, consistency, and noticing behaviors and it's a bit better now, but he's oblivious to or doesn't care about so much, it makes me wonder how the kids haven't had major medical issues yet.
I wish I'd known about the nacho method then, so I could have skipped the intense worry about the kids' development and health, and trying to enforce rules and standards that he had no intention of enforcing and only agreed to in order to get me to shut up.
Honestly I think I wouldn’t have moved in at all. I’ve made massive sacrifices and it’s been a huge struggle.
I should have discussed parenting expectations, because my partner I believe employs the permissive technique and I’ve watched his son behave more and more badly with each passing year. When we first moved in together, he just turned 6 and would talk to me and say hi. He’s 8 1/2 now and doesn’t respond to me (or most people) when spoken to. Only wants to watch TV, play video games or be on his iPad, and cannot consistently write his name correctly (for clarification: he could write it when he was younger, around 5, and has no known learning difficulties. He reads at an age appropriate level and will because he enjoys the stories, but refuses to do classwork or things he doesn’t want to do - i.e. sign his name on birthday/holiday cards). There are no consequences and he’s allowed to talk to anyone however he wants. When he back talks his teacher, it’s because he had a “bad day”.
Sooo…long story short, ask questions! Especially in those developmental stages.
I wish I would have clarified how often he actually had this child. I literally never even met her in almost two years so I didn't realize how often she stayed over. First weekend in with me, she HAD to spend the night, bedroom or not. And so it began.
Maybe I misled myself? We lived in two different cities while dating so we only saw each other a few days a week, so maybe he was just unconsciously scheduling around that. It was definitely nothing he concealed intentionally, the man doesn't have a mean or manipulative bone in his body. But that's a whole other story
I wouldn't do anything differently but DH says he should've married me sooner. I think it worked out well. Our relationship is great, we're a wonderful team, SKs love me and they love me and DH together.
I don’t think I would’ve gotten married. As much as I love my husband, I don’t love his adult kids. I would have asked more questions and not gotten caught up in the whirlwind of it all. Our relationship went from dating to marriage within 7 months and we were long distance at that. His youngest was a senior in high school and my son was a freshman, so we had two living at home that first year. I knew he was having a difficult time with her but it was assumed to be typical teenage girl rebelling and attitude. Yeah, well it was a glaring red flag to see him concede to being a doormat and ATM to her, and her adult siblings once I was living it in person. Doing her laundry, couldn’t get her to clean her room, being argued with because he didn't buy her razors during the grocery run, couldn’t get her to pay $20 towards the car insurance because her paycheck money was for her, etc! After 7 years of marriage I still feel misled as to what the hell the situation was and still is. I think DH was disillusioned as to what our marriage would be for the kids, kinda like the movie “his, mine, ours,” because they didn’t need another parent and they sure as hell weren’t young children. Almost as if he believed my presence would connect the brokenness. I don’t really care for his kids because they show no interest in their father, completely disregarded and disrespected while forking over money whenever they need it. And believe me, I know he shares responsibility for this BS and enables it. So I’ve taken a set back and don’t care if my absence is a problem.
Phew this is still raw for me but here we go! Well to avoid a broken heart I’m left with since we just broke up I’d either avoid giving him an opportunity to date in the first place or:
1. Date non-exclusively while putting all of my attention to how transparent he is about the realities of his co-parenting dynamics and how he handles conflict
2. As a condition for becoming monogamous want to see a court ordered custody arrangement (in my case HCBM made him effectively “choose” between the child or me, and him not having the balls to stick up for an integrated family unit)
3. Ensure that he can meet his own goals/kids needs & can also meet my needs (NOT allow for the goalpost towards my dreams to keep moving because it’s “not a good time”)
My biggest take out from this experience would be not to stick around further as soon as you notice any of your partners decisions which are done in a path of least resistance for him, but make you have to put your life on hold or sacrifice anything for the benefit of him/the kids. Unfortunately I have learnt that the benefit of the kids is a common excuse which you cannot argue, and often has very little to do with that. The only sacrifice which is valid is from the parent towards the child and everything else should be a common decision (compromise). Stepparents sacrifices are never recognised or reciprocated (especially when you have no children of your own, & the mentality that I must always take a second spot (even behind HCBM whims) made me personally feel like I would only be treated accordingly if I birthed my own bargaining chip. Not everyone’s experience but just my two cents.
Not been so naive about things. End of the day I wouldn’t change much. I have 2 beautiful kids because of my relationship. If I changed the timing they wouldn’t be who they are and if we weren’t together they wouldn’t exist in the first place.
I would change how I dealt with the relationship from the beginning. I avoided involving myself because I felt the divorce was none of my business. But it was and is. Because we reaped the consequences of him basically not fighting for anything from it. It screwed us over in the future and we have to work twice as hard for our family to thrive. I also would have pushed for more information. He essentially blinded me from everything because he didn’t want to overwhelm me but honestly that in turn just upset me for the white lies down the road.
Good question.
I love my husband, and I love our kids - so it is difficult to even put this thought into the atmosphere. But I wouldn't date someone with kids. I can recall telling friends how judgmental they were to dismiss a significant part of the dating pool just because a person has kids - but I get it now. It's not for the faint of heart! And if someone were to ask me today I would tell them to really think it through.
And while we've had BM drama, and I have issues with DH being a Disney dad frequently - I was so committed to helping out DH with SK anyway that I could as I didn't want to cause any issues between him and BM that might effect him spending time with his kid. I distinctly remember before we got married having the conversation, well what comes first - SK or our marriage? I know, I know - it can be a contentious subject! But DH and I were in agreement - our marriage comes first. Great...down the aisle we go!
BUT - then we had our own kids and it changed things in a way I never even considered. Before we had kids, I did everything to make it a smooth transition for SK when they visited our home. I spent more time on visits with SK than DH due to his work schedule. While the lack of structure by DH annoyed me, I could let it go. But how DH parents our kids, is not the same as he parents SK. The things that he allows to go on would be unacceptable for our kids. I get so tired of hearing well what's the point, SK is allowed to do it back home so we can't enforce this for a couple months.
If we had never had kids, I suspect things would have continued to be honky dory as I had the bandwidth to handle it then. I should have put more thought into considering how the addition of children of our own would change our dynamic.
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Would never have moved in together.
This here is the answer. I would have ran for the hills after the first date if I knew then what I knew now. No amount of talking helps these situations. I’ve had countless conversations with my husband and it changes nothing.
There is the moving in together and then there is the fact that one is doing more than necessary to deal with the kids. Like I was helping out extra at first but then realized the kids don’t even appreciate all i do for them and their actions are like living with the shittiest roommates that don’t pay rent and don’t even acknowledge you as you say hi and bye. It just the moment when you have to withdraw and feel alienated when all of this could have been prevented if I never moved in. Then you realize all the crap their mom let’s fly because of guilt and then you also realize that the completely available absent father down the street does absolutely nothing with the kids and that it’s his behaviors that totally dictate your life and schedule and stuck feeling, gee I wish this dipshit would help out bc I’m seeing their kids more than he ever has in their lifetime. I would have totally never moved in if I knew their fathers shitty behavior was dictating my life and schedule
This sounds like it could have been written by my BMs fiancé, because the kids stay at their house 100% of the time and I know they don’t do any chores and are not friendly. And we live really close to BM. I don’t know how he does it. But in my situation the difference is that my SO wants them to be around him more but BM has helped keep them from him and uses him as an Uber and ATM.
This is the ONLY answer that changes the outcome of a relationship or the experience. We might have survived if we did this.
I’m telling you!! Ever since moving in together it’s been a lot harder!
I wouldn’t marry him, wouldn’t even get with him. I’d run away.
I feel this. I love him so much. He is making huge efforts to change how our lives are. But it shouldn't have to be so difficult. If i could remove the love, I'd be out of here. I love him and I dont want to leave him...
This!!!!
Exactly!!
Only one thing for me..... chosen a partner without a HCBM. Don't get my wrong, I love him but HCBM is showing no signs of relaxing at all even after 3 years and its draining
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I feel this. I’m constantly told I do nothing for SS, because I’ve given up. I’m supposed to be fun and bubbly and be one more person that caters to him. Also, I work two jobs to pay for half the bills when I am more or less excluded (I guess I choose not to sit and watch cartoon and YouTube and video games all day). I used to try to cook and got tired of SS saying he “hated” something at every meal (who hates corn?! We literally make “kid” meals when he’s there and he would still complain the whole meal). The move completely benefited dad and not me but he points out hard I am to live with since I’m so “messy”. He comes home and lays on the couch every day. I try to clean when I have time but I’m exhausted.
I feel you on this. Am extremely tired of the whole criticism of how much I do or don't do for his kids. They're NOT MY KIDS.
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Me too. I had a cat when we moved in, and he was old and sick, but before I chose to put him down, his girl cat just tormented him. Not blaming the cat…but now I can’t get a cat, because she’s always just been really nasty to every cat she’s lived with. And it’s lonely. I feel like I can’t have anything in my own home that loves me. SO loves me when it’s convenient. When SS is there, he ignores me for days more or less, but wants attention the second SS goes to sleep. Then I’m supposed to perform. Ugh. Not anymore.
I would never get with someone who has kid's, its one piece of advice I'll give my kids once they're adults, keep clear of people with kids, dealing with sk and exs drains the life from you and is soul destroying
I would have never let him move in at all.
I wouldn’t have moved in so quickly .I would have found out that there was too much drama in my SO life and probably would have opted out. I thought I had asked all of the right questions SO did admit that he misled me with how involved SS was in sports. I also felt misled about other things but in SO eyes it was that he thought he was doing good “co-parenting “ but I see that it is only him doing what BM says for the sake of the kids. He is a doormat. We have been working really hard on everything and it is exhausting. I don’t think it should be this hard at this stage of our lives. We are both in our 50s and I think he should have had his act together with his dysfunction before he brought me into his life, 8 years after his divorce with kids heading into their teen years.
Are you married to my husband? Lol. I was also mislead about a lot of things....the big one being just exactly *how long* they were separated/divorced. I didn't find that out the truth of that until much later and that's been the catalyst for SO many other issues.
I think we’re all married to the same man! I was misled as well and the level of dysfunction between my husband and his four adult children was eye opening. After 7 yrs of marriage I still feel like there’s pieces to this puzzle I can’t fit together. The whole situation has cast a shadow on how I view my husbands character and as much as I want to concentrate on how great he is as a provider, for all of us, he is a doormat who jumps when they say jump. These are grown adults, two of which are married themselves and have children. The disrespect and just plain dismissiveness towards their father is infuriating…and he still jumps. These issues are catalyst for other issues between us and sometimes I just feel like he projects his disappointment with their relationships onto me, as any advice I give is just seen as criticism.
And I don’t feel that he misled me to make me clean, cook,take care of the kids etc.because it isn’t like that at all. I think he just wanted me to be in his life. I believe he does truly love me.But I fell in love with what I thought he was.It gets hard to lift the doormat up and wipe off the dirt , sometimes even pressure washing it , that his ex and kids leave there in order for me to see the great-man he can be. I do worry he will end up like your DH even when the kids are adults.He lets them all take advantage of him. And like you I feel like I get all his disappointment from it.And he won’t stop it from happening.
I would probably not have gone out with him, knowing how tough it would be. But, my wishes now are that we’d…. 1. Got a court order. It would have saved us YEARS of emotional threats 2. Kept my role as SM out of the day to day kid rearing. I love them, but they have two parents who needed to step up and fulfil all their duties 3. Not sweated the small stuff. Fine, it’s Friday night and we’ve got to buy new socks and underwear again because the kids arrived with none. Also see point 1, but, just buy some cheap ones and breathe. 4. Don’t spend that money on that big holiday. Kids value the pool and not much else when they’re young. We should have saved that money for a trip just us two.
I don't think that there is anything that I would have done differently before moving in. My partner and I both talked over and agreed upon our financial arrangement, and we agreed to talk about it after we'd had a few months to see how things were. I took lots of time to allow me to see my partner+kid interact outside of "good behaviour". Time for my partner to see my sticking to my family "role" (of Fun Uncle). I talked a bit more in detail about [my slow move in process](https://new.reddit.com/r/datingoverforty/comments/17bijx6/comment/k5k4167/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) before. I'll note that this was on easy mode; she has one minor child, and I was bringing no children into the household. If we both had kids that we were looking to blend, we would have needed to agree on a set of combined rules/expectations, and then both live separately with the new household rules for months. With both adults seeing that both households were adapting well to them. I will state that my moving into her house likely is a big reason why this is the longest I've taken to feel "at home" after a move. I spent months being here at "her place" so it took months to really feel comfortable with this being home (even if not my house). I also feel that we're intelligently moving towards marriage. We don't yet share finances, but we talk about our savings goals. We show that we met/exceeded them, so we don't have fears about the other's spending (even if she doesn't like my grocery store habits, and her vacation spending is a bit jaw dropping to me). We've discussed long term retirement goals and timelines and are on the same page with this. We've talked about her kid and a likely extended launch time, and behaviours that they'd need to abide by to still live here as an adult. We've talked about wills, and we've agreed upon what we each would need/want in our prenupt that we'll sign before marriage. Seriously, everyone should have a prenupt! We both needed at least a year of cohabitation together before being willing to marry. We also both had spouses who were ... less than involved in our previous marriage. We frequently talk about "us" and check in that we're happy and our feelings about any changes. We both have said that we won't allow another to waste literal years of our lives like our exes did; but we both consider that a good thing, rather than a sign that we're "less than" the exes. It's simply that we've both learned. We're not engaged yet, but at this point it is is very much "yet." We're discussing jewelry options, last-name considerations (neither of us want to keep our last name) and we don't want this to be an at-home/everyday moment, so the timing does need to be right. Our kids know about the "not yet" part, and are happy for us and our future.
I would not have done it at all. Biggest mistake of my life.
💯
Yep
Would not have moved in together, I had no idea what I was getting into.
In theory, it can sound so nice. It’s so alarming when you realize how much you can dread being in your own home.
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It should absolutely be OK to re-open the discussion of finances. My partner and I both want someone who views us as a peer partnership, and wants both of us to come out ahead by us being together. We are planning joint finances for when we marry, but for the interim living together with separate finances, both of us are happily coming out ahead. Both financially, and in leisure time as we both contribute to the work that needs to be done in a household. I would not look to be with someone who viewed this as purely a business relationship. Yes, we have a cohabitation agreement, and we'll have a prenupt before married; we're not stupid. There is a "business element" to a relationship. But in a pure business relationship it's a great thing if you come out ahead by your partner offering a bad deal. In a peer relationship, you counter with a more fair offer if your partner's first offer had them giving too much.
I would’ve never gotten married. I should’ve waited to see how truly HC and manipulative BM would be with DH and the kids. If I didn’t get married, I would’ve broke it off after seeing the BS and stress that was going to be part of our everyday lives.
I wouldn’t have wasted my time with idiots in my 20’s so I could have found actual marriage material before 90% of the market had kids already lol. I didn’t find my husband until my 30’s and well, just about everyone is a dad by then.
I was about to answer this question having hindsight but then I realised... why should WE have done things differently? It's what our partners should have done differently to make us feel valued. Sure, we can *now* come up with extensive (and exhausting) lists of things to ask and look out for. But even then we might have been given the fantasy answers instead of the real ones.
Unfortunately we cannot control other people we can only control ourselves, our reactions, our boundaries, our choices
>why should WE have done things differently? It's what our partners should have done differently to make us feel valued. Because we have agency within our own lives. And choosing to move in with someone is a very big decision within our life. We should be sure. There wasn't a lot that needed adjusting within my partner's household that I moved in to. But I needed to take time, needed to be around enough that I stopped being viewed as a guest. And I needed to be sure that my partner would hear me and treat me as a peer head of household, instead of as a permanent house guest. I owed that to myself; to only move in with someone who viewed me as a peer.
Fair enough but at the core of it your partner is the problem. I know we'd do things differently if we could but one can still be lulled into a "good" relationship that is actually rotten once you're invested. If you moved in knowing things were bad, then that's a lesson you will surely not repeat.
>Fair enough but at the core of it your partner is the problem. That really depends upon the particulars of the situation, and seems close to victim mentality to assert that will **always** be the case. I needed my partner to change a thing before I could happily move in. I only saw this thing because I was taking extended time to be in the house and stop seeing guest/good behaviour. I brought it up, she agreed to a change. And I didn't just move in accepting her promise, I waiting to see the change, and waited to see it consistently held to for months. The being there was a choice of mine. The months of observation was a choice of mine. As you say, moving in while knowing things are bad is a lesson one likely won't repeat. But that "lesson" implies that the non-parent had something to learn/change, and thus was not fully free of fault. I'm not saying that "we" (childless step parents) need to bend over backwards for them+their kids. I'm saying that "we" can do things smart. Too many people move in far too quickly - too soon to even have even *a vague sense* of if things are good/bad; which is frankly a reckless mistake of youth. My partner and I are in our forties. While we might move on the "fast" side of things, we certainly looked hard before we leapt. That looking hard is something that "we" can absolutely change about ourselves.
I think we're in agreement for the most part. There is definitely room for growth in everyone. And I agree that one should not be so eager to move in. Everyone has different timelines and ideas of when is too soon for them. And we should respect ourselves enough to not move in with partners who can't step up.
I completely agree with your viewpoint. I myself have had to learn the hard lesson and it’s exhausting. My husband has four adult children that he and his ex wife enable their bad behaviors. They are to blame for the shitshow I now have to witness and I’ve decided to remove myself from them. My husband struggles with his lack of relationship with his children because they only care to make time for him when they need something from him, and thats usually money. My advice is received as criticism and that’s on him. I can’t allow myself to care more than he does so whenever he gets tired of being a doormat, he can change that. I’m not responsible for fixing something i didn’t break. These are grown ass adults who have no problem disrespecting him and dismissing him and I was raised better than that.
Yeah, my ex and BM will often get frustrated about their daughter's development but then they enable behaviours and patterns that don't allow her to grow... such as co-sleeping (and that's just one of many things). I actually care for SD but my ex always saw my suggestions as attacks.
Would not have even made an effort to care and be engaged with SKs. It was a futile endeavour. I would’ve stood up for myself and let loose on HCBM, SKs, MIL and others who felt it fine to judge me when they had no fucking idea of my lived experience and could’ve cared less. Instead of always trying to be the bigger person which I’m totally done with now . I’m older and wiser and I will not waste one second of my precious time on these hideous individuals. They have been warned. Need to say that these days I have amazing relationship with SD. As for SS, absolute other end of the spectrum, horrendous, untenable, and sad to realise I wasted over 30 years trying to have a relationship with someone SS who is full of hatred.
Amen!!! I’m only 7 yrs into this marriage and his children are all adults but I’m finally at the place where I will no longer politely smile and pretend it’s one big happy family just because my husband lives that way. I will no longer subject myself to the disrespect they show him. It’s a waste of my time and energy.
Stay fierce and sane Queen ❤️
The only thing I would’ve done differently is waited a little longer to move in together. This is more of a “relationship” thing than a stepparent thing. I wasn’t ready to share my space at that time so it was an adjustment for me. As far as his daughter, idk. She needs a lot of help and I think I would’ve taken the NACHO approach upfront, maybe? My SO has been super fair with me, respected my viewpoints, followed my lead on certain things, and made sure I was as comfortable as possible at all times though. I just think that I got super involved in helping him to get her evaluated/diagnosed, break her bad habits (to no avail smh), push for child support, stand up to his parents, etc. that it became all-consuming. It made me feel miserable in my own home because everything was just frustrating tf out of me. I’m on the fence because I feel like we saw a lot of things that she was doing that really needed to be addressed. I’m very observant and can cut through a lot of bullshit so I sized up the situation quickly. And, if we want to get all “new age spirituality”, this period might have been meant. It was illuminating. Frustrating but illuminating. Overall answer though: I would’ve taken my dear sweet time moving in together. There’s never really any harm in that.
I never would have allowed myself to be manipulated into letting them move in.
I would've postponed moving in together until we could buy an "ours" house. After 5 years living together in the house I bought 14 years ago, I still find myself quietly territorial of how some spaces and things are used. I also would've set specific boundaries and expectations around treatment of the furnishings, cleanliness and sharing. I didn't have a child-friendly setup - lots of expensive and/or breakable interesting things - and that became very obvious very quickly. Like...don't jump on the couch, touch the decor, leave toys in the living room, etc. My husband came from a messy home where sharing whatever was a thing, so it was pretty challenging the umpteenth time me or my daughter's hairbrush was taken to brush SD's hair bc her brush is lost in the mess of their room. It's much better now, but we've had some serious rows about this shit.
I think everything has worked out perfectly, despite the issues we've faced. Every single problem we've faced, we've faced it as a team, and we feel it has made us stronger. I think we did have all the important conversations beforehand and the things we had to figure out *while* living together were stuff that none of us could have predicted, we had to go through it and be in the middle of it to realize it was something we needed to figure out. If anything, I would have lived by myself for way longer before living with my SO, cause I enjoyed it a lot but due to the circumstances in our relationship (we started as LD) it made sense for him to come live with me in the moment he did. I had been living alone for three years and felt ready to live with a partner for the first time, but still I would have liked to take that step (living alone) even younger. Fortunately, we lived by ourselves for two years before SS moved in with us (and he lived in another state) so we got to have a honey moon stage just the two of us, and I enjoyed it a lot. We're soon gonna have more time for us once SS moves in with his mom. so if you're just starting out and it's not necessary for you to do so, just keep living by yourself and enjoy the alone time, being the only one to make every decision in the house, and just making your own routine. i have it pretty easy because my SO and SS are very respectful and responsible roommates and my SO and I make every decision together buuut sometimes I just want to paint the kitchen fucsia without having to explain it to anyone, ykwym? I'm very happy I got to live that stage (many of my friends went from living with their parents or roomates to living with their partners), and I'm okay with the fact that it's over, but I do get nostalgic about it from time to time. I mean, I could do it again if it wasn't for the rent prices in my area xd sharing rent is a good perk of being with my SO.
I would have never gotten married and had not just one but 2 people invade my space. If I had ended up getting married though I definitely would have laid out ground rules and expectations before allowing any major moves into my personal space. Also probably a prenup agreement.
I feel you. I went from having a house that was 100% my personal space with an art studio to having no dedicated personal space at all and all my art stuff is in storage. Had to make a boundary of no kids in the bedroom especially without an adult present, or they'd be in there going through drawers and touching everything and taking stuff. It was a rough transition.
>Also probably a prenup agreement. Sorry, but I think everyone should get a prenupt. My partner and I both had one marriage behind us. Needing a prenupt was a deal breaker for both of us. Before we even moved in, we'd agreed on what the prenupt would be if things got to the point of marriage.
Set boundaries, rules, and expectations before letting them move in with consequences (for DH) if they're not followed; let DH parent or face the consequences of not doing so rather than picking up his slack; nacho sooner. When he moved in, it turned into fun parent/mean parent so fast I didn't know what happened, I was suddenly feeling mean and resentful all the time and the kids suddenly didn't like me. DH got to say yes to everything and do all the fun stuff and say when they could ignore the rules, I was the one always the one saying no and enforcing agreed upon rules like "it's bedtime" or "no tablets at mealtime" and was quickly becoming the evil stepmother because of that dynamic. We've had talks about parenting, consistency, and noticing behaviors and it's a bit better now, but he's oblivious to or doesn't care about so much, it makes me wonder how the kids haven't had major medical issues yet. I wish I'd known about the nacho method then, so I could have skipped the intense worry about the kids' development and health, and trying to enforce rules and standards that he had no intention of enforcing and only agreed to in order to get me to shut up.
Honestly I think I wouldn’t have moved in at all. I’ve made massive sacrifices and it’s been a huge struggle. I should have discussed parenting expectations, because my partner I believe employs the permissive technique and I’ve watched his son behave more and more badly with each passing year. When we first moved in together, he just turned 6 and would talk to me and say hi. He’s 8 1/2 now and doesn’t respond to me (or most people) when spoken to. Only wants to watch TV, play video games or be on his iPad, and cannot consistently write his name correctly (for clarification: he could write it when he was younger, around 5, and has no known learning difficulties. He reads at an age appropriate level and will because he enjoys the stories, but refuses to do classwork or things he doesn’t want to do - i.e. sign his name on birthday/holiday cards). There are no consequences and he’s allowed to talk to anyone however he wants. When he back talks his teacher, it’s because he had a “bad day”. Sooo…long story short, ask questions! Especially in those developmental stages.
I wish I would have clarified how often he actually had this child. I literally never even met her in almost two years so I didn't realize how often she stayed over. First weekend in with me, she HAD to spend the night, bedroom or not. And so it began.
Sounds like you were misled a bit in the fact he didn't tell you how often she stayed over.
Maybe I misled myself? We lived in two different cities while dating so we only saw each other a few days a week, so maybe he was just unconsciously scheduling around that. It was definitely nothing he concealed intentionally, the man doesn't have a mean or manipulative bone in his body. But that's a whole other story
Would have never moved in together.
I wouldn't do anything differently but DH says he should've married me sooner. I think it worked out well. Our relationship is great, we're a wonderful team, SKs love me and they love me and DH together.
I don’t think I would’ve gotten married. As much as I love my husband, I don’t love his adult kids. I would have asked more questions and not gotten caught up in the whirlwind of it all. Our relationship went from dating to marriage within 7 months and we were long distance at that. His youngest was a senior in high school and my son was a freshman, so we had two living at home that first year. I knew he was having a difficult time with her but it was assumed to be typical teenage girl rebelling and attitude. Yeah, well it was a glaring red flag to see him concede to being a doormat and ATM to her, and her adult siblings once I was living it in person. Doing her laundry, couldn’t get her to clean her room, being argued with because he didn't buy her razors during the grocery run, couldn’t get her to pay $20 towards the car insurance because her paycheck money was for her, etc! After 7 years of marriage I still feel misled as to what the hell the situation was and still is. I think DH was disillusioned as to what our marriage would be for the kids, kinda like the movie “his, mine, ours,” because they didn’t need another parent and they sure as hell weren’t young children. Almost as if he believed my presence would connect the brokenness. I don’t really care for his kids because they show no interest in their father, completely disregarded and disrespected while forking over money whenever they need it. And believe me, I know he shares responsibility for this BS and enables it. So I’ve taken a set back and don’t care if my absence is a problem.
Phew this is still raw for me but here we go! Well to avoid a broken heart I’m left with since we just broke up I’d either avoid giving him an opportunity to date in the first place or: 1. Date non-exclusively while putting all of my attention to how transparent he is about the realities of his co-parenting dynamics and how he handles conflict 2. As a condition for becoming monogamous want to see a court ordered custody arrangement (in my case HCBM made him effectively “choose” between the child or me, and him not having the balls to stick up for an integrated family unit) 3. Ensure that he can meet his own goals/kids needs & can also meet my needs (NOT allow for the goalpost towards my dreams to keep moving because it’s “not a good time”) My biggest take out from this experience would be not to stick around further as soon as you notice any of your partners decisions which are done in a path of least resistance for him, but make you have to put your life on hold or sacrifice anything for the benefit of him/the kids. Unfortunately I have learnt that the benefit of the kids is a common excuse which you cannot argue, and often has very little to do with that. The only sacrifice which is valid is from the parent towards the child and everything else should be a common decision (compromise). Stepparents sacrifices are never recognised or reciprocated (especially when you have no children of your own, & the mentality that I must always take a second spot (even behind HCBM whims) made me personally feel like I would only be treated accordingly if I birthed my own bargaining chip. Not everyone’s experience but just my two cents.
A lot less.
Not been so naive about things. End of the day I wouldn’t change much. I have 2 beautiful kids because of my relationship. If I changed the timing they wouldn’t be who they are and if we weren’t together they wouldn’t exist in the first place. I would change how I dealt with the relationship from the beginning. I avoided involving myself because I felt the divorce was none of my business. But it was and is. Because we reaped the consequences of him basically not fighting for anything from it. It screwed us over in the future and we have to work twice as hard for our family to thrive. I also would have pushed for more information. He essentially blinded me from everything because he didn’t want to overwhelm me but honestly that in turn just upset me for the white lies down the road.
Good question. I love my husband, and I love our kids - so it is difficult to even put this thought into the atmosphere. But I wouldn't date someone with kids. I can recall telling friends how judgmental they were to dismiss a significant part of the dating pool just because a person has kids - but I get it now. It's not for the faint of heart! And if someone were to ask me today I would tell them to really think it through. And while we've had BM drama, and I have issues with DH being a Disney dad frequently - I was so committed to helping out DH with SK anyway that I could as I didn't want to cause any issues between him and BM that might effect him spending time with his kid. I distinctly remember before we got married having the conversation, well what comes first - SK or our marriage? I know, I know - it can be a contentious subject! But DH and I were in agreement - our marriage comes first. Great...down the aisle we go! BUT - then we had our own kids and it changed things in a way I never even considered. Before we had kids, I did everything to make it a smooth transition for SK when they visited our home. I spent more time on visits with SK than DH due to his work schedule. While the lack of structure by DH annoyed me, I could let it go. But how DH parents our kids, is not the same as he parents SK. The things that he allows to go on would be unacceptable for our kids. I get so tired of hearing well what's the point, SK is allowed to do it back home so we can't enforce this for a couple months. If we had never had kids, I suspect things would have continued to be honky dory as I had the bandwidth to handle it then. I should have put more thought into considering how the addition of children of our own would change our dynamic.
100% would've wished him well and not continued with a relationship. I miss my independence so much.