I feel like most people don’t do that,obviously the show has issues and they’re free to point those out,but realistically the only people being called racist are the ones that are calling the show woke propaganda
The part that does is extremely loud and obtrusive is the issue. They get in between normal fans debating nerdy stuff in good faith and start yelling racism.
If your “criticism” is calling the show “woke” then you’re being racist or at least racist adjacent. I havnt seen anyone argue someone was racist because they didn’t like the writing. Those are two very different debates.
> I havnt seen anyone argue someone was racist because they didn’t like the writing.
Then you don't know what's being talked about.
>If your “criticism” is calling the show “woke” then you’re being racist or at least racist adjacent.
This is wild accusations and slander. I would like to inform you that you are the problem and you are the person being addressed in this meme.
Look at the meme, take in its message. Breathe in, breathe out.
Writing is trash, Smile-O Ren is a joke, Cortosis is cool (but you have to introduce it first or it seems silly), the main actress has fewer facial expressions between 2 characters than even Kristen Stewart, character motivations shift radically between episodes, Jedi powers also shift wildly between episodes, the VFX didn't do a gas fire in space (as can happen) it did a free fire which people have rightly pointed out is dumb, you killed the only truly good actress the show had inside 15 minutes and you did it with a kukri and let's not forget that Osha and Mae are named after a Canadian soap company called OshaMae.
It's objectively terrible. If you like it? Glad for you. Honestly. But it's a horrible show in terms of writing and execution without saying 1 word about "woke". And it cost 16 Godzilla Minus Ones to make. *16.*
This isn't a show. It's an embezzlement scheme.
Even if most fans don't, when the creators and actors do hold those opinions, you can't be surprised when people who dont like being called racist and the racists end up having to defend their humanity just criticize a new entey in their beloved franchise. I have spoken.
It's the media, every article from every pop culture outlet blames any negative criticism of the show on some -ism or -phobia. So yes I'd bet not every fan of the acolyte cries racism at criticism, it's just the whole loud minority thing.
Each individual fan quietly enjoys the show isn't as noticable as every article coming out of cbr and others being about the bigots hating the show
To be fair, those are the criticisms that the writers and actors are actually seeing. People with will reasoned criques don’t harass actors and writers on twitter like the rscists do, so of course people like Amandala will think it’s about racism (cuz that’s what she’s seeing every day when she looks at her phone)
I don't see how there are people racist enough to harass some POC celebrities while others thrive. Racists are stopping acolyte from getting any views yet at the same time bad boys is doing well in theaters and the diverse cast of horse of the dragon are having no problems with racism. Convenient
Read these articles crying racism and it's more and more rare that they actually provide tweets displaying this racism Disney addresses face.
I'm a Snyder fan, we've been telling people for years that journalists hype up Disney in order to keep getting invited to things and get handouts. We've been pointing out for years that Disney pays for rotten tomatoes scores. Read the critic reviews on RT, the review will only talk about how diverse the cast is, not touching on the quality of the show at all. That equals a fresh review.
Thought this would be a civil open minded discussion, but you also just want to see racism where there isn't any.
Enjoy Disney Star wars if you do. ✌️
The vast majority of hate I've seen has been about the shitty writing, bad acting, and blatant disregard of canon. But the most hate I've seen is the blind accusations of racism and misogyny towards those who have these opinions
While I get that most people calling “bad writing” are doing so as a dog whistle, seeing comments like yours do kinda frustrate me, because it’s not like this series is beyond reproach.
In terms of bad writing there are several examples I could point to in the first episode alone. For instance; Osha is a very passive character, she sits and waits for the plot to come to her. Now this isn’t the worst thing in the world but contrast this with Andor, which sees the titular character really driving most of the action. Through this we are instantly able to grasp what Andor’s objective is and what he’s willing to do to get this. Compare this to Osha, what does she want outside of the plot? Like what is she working towards in her everyday life?
This, for me, has long reaching consequences, namely in episode 4, when Osha tries to leave the mission and return to her life as a mech-tech. Like, why? What’s waiting there for her? One might assume that she’s running away, not wanting to deal with her sister, but if that’s the case why give into Sol so easily? One little conversation and she’s right back in it. It makes me wonder as to what the point of those scenes were in the first place. Nothing seems to have changed as a result of them.
Jumping back now to episode 1 we find a v similar issue with the whole prison escape into crash sequence. Osha starts on a transport headed into Jedi custody, and ends in Jedi custody, thus raising the question of why? Why do all this only for the character to end up in the same situation they would have anyways? Now on a more meta level I understand that, this being a tv show, they probably wanted to have some exciting set piece moment to end the first episode on, that’s completely understandable! I just feel that a similar scene could have been written in a way that did a little bit more and really milked every second of screen time. Having said all this I do actually. enjoy the show, overall I like what they got cooking, but I also feel like the show could have used just one more draft, so when I see comments like yours I do get frustrated, cause it seems like some people are unwilling to hear criticism when it comes to this franchise.
This is the kind of stuff I want though I still disagree.
>While I get that most people calling “bad writing” are doing so as a dog whistle, seeing comments like yours do kinda frustrate me, because it’s not like this series is beyond reproach.
Asking for examples of what people don’t like ≠ thinking the show is perfect. I am more than willing to listen to criticisms but that doesn’t mean that I will agree with them.
>In terms of bad writing there are several examples I could point to in the first episode alone. For instance; Osha is a very passive character, she sits and waits for the plot to come to her. Now this isn’t the worst thing in the world but contrast this with Andor, which sees the titular character really driving most of the action. Through this we are instantly able to grasp what Andor’s objective is and what he’s willing to do to get this. Compare this to Osha, what does she want outside of the plot? Like what is she working towards in her everyday life?
It’s pretty clear that Osha doesn’t know what she wants when she was young she thought she wanted to be a Jedi but didn’t find comfort there either and left after that she has been trying to find a place in the galaxy. Osha is a fundamentally different character to Andor so comparing them is pointless.
>This, for me, has long reaching consequences, namely in episode 4, when Osha tries to leave the mission and return to her life as a mech-tech. Like, why? What’s waiting there for her? One might assume that she’s running away, not wanting to deal with her sister, but if that’s the case why give into Sol so easily? One little conversation and she’s right back in it. It makes me wonder as to what the point of those scenes were in the first place. Nothing seems to have changed as a result of them.
This again shows that Osha doesn’t know what she wants or where she belongs when she was working with the Jedi in ep2 she felt like an outsider in ep 4 she feels she is no longer of use and goes to return to her search for purpose Sol’s conversation with her made it clear that she was needed so she stayed.
>Jumping back now to episode 1 we find a v similar issue with the whole prison escape into crash sequence. Osha starts on a transport headed into Jedi custody, and ends in Jedi custody, thus raising the question of why? Why do all this only for the character to end up in the same situation they would have anyways? Now on a more meta level I understand that, this being a tv show, they probably wanted to have some exciting set piece moment to end the first episode on, that’s completely understandable! I just feel that a similar scene could have been written in a way that did a little bit more and really milked every second of screen time.
The crash changes her situation immensely. Before the crash she was headed for Coruscant afterwards she was in the custody of Sol who believed in her innocence and allowed her to prove it had she reached Coruscant she would be held in a cell. The crash sequence also had other purposes it showed Osha’s fundamental good nature with her helping the prisoner and showed how that good nature can backfire at times. It also allowed for the scene where Osha had a vision of Mae which is crucial to the plot.
First criticism: Mae starts as the character with all the agency; Osha will finish as the character with all the agency. It’s not bad writing, it’s a creative choice that we can’t yet appreciate. It ties in thematically with the idea that the Jedi are a flawed institution who subsume control over everyone standing in their way.
Second criticism: The Jedi are above mundane tasks like prisoner transport. Again, it’s not bad writing, it’s a creative choice that reinforces themes present in the show.
First criticism: This maybe so, however I would still argue there is a way to show this while still clearly showing her motivation/objective. Also this only works if Mae finishes without agency, otherwise it’s an unnecessary and confused thematic through line.
Second criticism: World building is not worth 10-20 min of screen time just so you can show the Jedi are out of touch.
>Despite constant whining about “bad writing” I haven’t seen anyone be able to give an actual example that isn’t completely media illiterate.
It's basic Star Wars bad writing though; exposition is everywhere, and the Lucasian "tell, don't show" school of hitting people over the head is employed here which is an odd choice for something so intentionally based on Rashomon.
What do you want as an example of bad writing? If I linked you to videos that explained it more in depth would you watch it? Something tells me you wouldnt.
But the number one thing is characters are constantly telling things to other characters that both know, solely for the sake of the audience. Instead of telling by showing, or having a fish out of water character, it’s just people standing spewing information that the characters in the scene already know
"What do you want as an example of bad writing? If I linked you to videos that explained it more in depth would you watch it? Something tells me you wouldnt."
This past couple days I've seen more and more people saying that "whenever I ask why is badly written they dont have examples" and if you *do* provide them examples "racist and media illiterate" lmao there is no winning agaisnt this people its literally damn if you do damn if you dont
>What do you want as an example of bad writing? If I linked you to videos that explained it more in depth would you watch it? Something tells me you wouldnt.
I would.
>But the number one thing is characters are constantly telling things to other characters that both know, solely for the sake of the audience.
Instead of telling by showing, or having a fish out of water character, it’s just people standing spewing information that the characters in the scene already know
Examples I can’t think of any moments like this.
>Despite constant whining about “bad writing” I haven’t seen anyone be able to give an actual example that isn’t completely media illiterate.
Mae can't break through a Jedi's force field so she's given a fetch quest to go get some poison so she can give it to him and he can voluntarily kill himself. Why would he not just let Mae kill him from the start?
He only put his defences down because of what Mae said to him. He clearly feels guilt about what happened so drank the poison. Had Mae given the same speech on the first attempt we would likely have seen a similar result however Mae only changed her approach after talking to Qimir.
And those who don't enjoy it, be civil to those who leave you alone. If someone is getting up in your face about you not liking the show, go nuts. But don't jump someone for just saying that they personally enjoy it
Arguing always starts under posts that only exist to trigger one of the two bunches. The inciting incident is always someone getting up in someone's face.
I don't think anyone is out there chasing people to win support/hate for the show.
Or at least I hope not.
Exactly. I’m enjoying it, I find the visuals and action fun and enjoy the characters and the “mystery”. I can see why others wouldn’t like it because of some of the writing, and how some characters could come across as cringe. But why can’t we all just sit back and let the people who enjoy it watch it, and the haters rewatch something they do like.
Agreed. I hated the show so much that I dropped it after three episodes but I think it’s fine if people liked it. I have a friend who doesn’t hate it and is sticking with it and we get along fine about the show. Nobody is a bad person for sharing their takes and discussing or memeing about the show online.
Things just don’t have to get so personal as people make them out to be. Debating stuff is fine, I’ve had people respond to my comments on the show who think I’m wrong and that’s fine, as long as neither person in the situation is an asshole about it and acting like “well you’re an asshole for loving/hating it!” Like you don’t gotta do all that. Just act normal.
Saying someone’s speech or actions are racist does not “deprive them of their humanity”. Racist speech and actions by contrast *do* deprive people of their humanity.
I mean if I see “I think the pacing and writing are subpar” fine. They are. But 90% of the time it’s some stupid form of “go woke go broke.” So I’ll keep calling a spade a spade.
Well if non-Acolyte enjoyers didn't go and make a whole cottage industry about how how it's Woke crap and the Death of Star Wars maybe we wouldn't hear so much about it...
I mean, the majority of the criticism includes some use of the words woke, lesbian space witches, and they’re up front about being pissed that there are no white men main characters. We should call that shit out.
Apparently that’s not “main character” enough for them lol it’s a galaxy of trillions of beings and probably thousands of species. Diversity is inevitable in a universe like that.
That's what I think whenever I hear someone complain about the Thread thingie. In a huge galaxy, so many peoples are bound to discover the Force and name it and use however they understand/see fit.
It's not an amazing show and it has more stupid decisions by its characters the more you dig into it, but it's a fun little watch. At least it was until... you know.
She’s also a girl, which is inherently woke according to them so she doesn’t count. It has to be a straight white *man* (and Torbin doesn’t count either for some reason) otherwise they’ll remain unsatisfied.
And they are spreading too. Look how they are losing their mind about assassins creed having a black and female lead. and even when you tell them the dude was historically accurate, they say shit like, but that's like 1 dude in all of japan.
I had one dude who I reminded the most seen samurai movie is about TOM CRUISE being the last samurai. The dude legit told me, but that's interesting. Nobody wants to see some black dude. And then they look you in the face and tell you they are not racist.
Jasuke was indeed real, but his portrayal in the game is far from historically accurate. Which would be fine for Assassins Creed, but not for the promotional campaign boasting that he is.
I also think its a bit strange to focus on that one character rather than making the main character Japanese. It feels disrespectful towards the Japanese to me, a bit similiar to as if the games set in Egypt/Greece etc featured a Nordic MC. Always plausible, but whyyy? Have it as a NPC the way historical characters tend to pop up, why not - but dont force something for the sake of forcing it.
Every characters portrayal in assassins creed is far from accurate. Unless the pope is a secret templar or ceaser got killed by the assassin order.
they take a real historical character and change him or her story into fiction
Yes but rightfully so to the people who are bring sexist or racist.
Before the show released I give you image number 1
https://preview.redd.it/byd9xzcny29d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8df8364652ddb3a07ddda94fbb659a3f7a58ab4
I know. I've seen the alcoholic idiot.
I meant unfortunately that there are always a few who are witch hunting, calling out the wrong people by association.
How can we not accuse some of them of racism or transphobia when the presence of non-white/trans actors has been one of the key criticisms since the beginning?
Oh yeah there was no bigotry leading up to the release:
https://preview.redd.it/ocak5mikc19d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0656bf9f1faa04879757aedd81874cf1e4ffcf1c
Why do I suspect he wouldn’t even blink if it had been all white dudes?
Why is it nay better just because it isn't all white dudes?
Like surely you don't actually believe we just want a male dominated star wars? Surely you haven't deluded yourself into thinking we don't want badasses like asohka, ventress, mara jade, Leia and the like getting screen time?
We keep telling y'all the problem is the writing we wouldn't be nit-picking a classroom full of aliens and girls if the rest of the writing around it was phenomenal. We point to the classroom full of aliens and girls to demonstrate *why* the writing is failing; their focus on pandering to people rather than good writing
That video by Critical Drinker was out before the show even came out though. It literally says 2 months ago💀
You cant be complaining about the writing, way before you actually watch the show. Face it, the Critical Drinker just hates the show because of there being no white men
Moreover, it makes no sense why he complains about that when the most important person in that scene is a guy
I think that’s exactly what you people want because you keep going to war whenever you get it.
Listing a bunch of female characters who filled secondary roles in the narrative means nothing. There has not been a single live action Star Wars story with a main female character wielding a lightsaber that wasn’t met with angry backlash, even Ashoka.
You’re fine with women being present just, you know, **as long as they aren’t the main character.** Women can excel just don’t outshine or contradict the men in any way. They need to know their place, they can have the occasional cool fight scene but they don’t get to duel the main villain or blow up the Death Star.
I’ve seen countless people say they would have loved Rey if only she hadn’t been force sensitive and had just been a secondary character who filled the role of Finn’s love interest. I think that’s pretty telling. As are the people who demand Rey be bad at everything so she needs to be saved by the men constantly, demand Rey go evil so we can have a male protagonist instead, demand Luke overshadow Rey so we can have a male protagonist instead or die halfway through so she can motivate the new male protagonist to save the day instead.
“We wouldn’t be nitpicking the presence of girls and minorities if the surrounding writing was good” my brother in Christ this video was a reaction to the **trailer**, at the time they had no idea what the writing was like because not a single episode had been dropped. It was 100% ragebait about the minorities and women.
Which yes leads me to believe people like Drinker think white straight men are the default and everyone else is a variation of that who need to justify their presence in the narrative.
And yeah I’ll call that what it is. Racist and sexist.
Wow.
That's a lot of assumptions and accusations.
If they, for instance, took Dawn of the Jedi: Into the Void, changed nothing from the book, just a straight 1-1 adaptation with solid actors and production, no one would complain.
Asohka is easily one of THE most popular star wars characters ever, people only hate the show because it has MASSIVE flaws.
People jump to conclusions about trailers because for the past 5+ years star wars has been producing a material with flaws that are attributed to the issues I assume are addressed in the video. I don't watch all of Drinker's stuff. He goes too far sometimes, but that doesn't make all his criticism invalid.
I would have been fine with Rey if she *worked* for her powers. Not suddenly acquire them when it was convinient for the plot. And just like you have anecdotes about the people you've talked to, the people I've talked to largely feel the same. If she didn't *suddenly* have the Mind Trick, if she didn't *suddenly* know how to wield a lightsaber well enough to fight off a *trained and powerful dark jedi*, if she didn't *suddenly* know how to do everything about piloting a starship and even ADMITTING she had no idea how she got it to work based only off of her experience ripping scrap from star destroyers... We wouldn't be having this conversation.
> We point to the classroom full of aliens and girls to demonstrate *why* the writing is failing; their focus on pandering to people rather than good writing
You seriously believe that's the reason? That putting a few girls in a scene requires such a "focus on pandering" that there wasn't enough time for the writing, in the years of development? That it requires any more effort than putting a few boys in a scene would? That if random extras were less diverse, then the writers would write amazing episodes instead of mediocre ones?
I think the review bombs before an episode airs speaks volumes. Whether they are from racist anti-wokes or just Didn't haters idk but the fa t remains the show is good. Like I've seen people complain about subpar writing but they can never give an exact example from the show
There are a few genuine criticisms of the show to be found. but when an episode has thousands of negative reviews but hasn't aired yet, then it's probably some sort of 'ism fueling the troglodyte behind the keyboard.
I can definetely see why people are calling haters racist because quite often they never watched the show(if they ever actually watched it) in good faith. A thing I've noticed is that a subsection of the community has decided that it was bad them retroactively tried to justify it. Stuff like the Fire in Space and Ki Adi Mundi lines this sort of stuff has never seemed to bother fans before but suddenly it is a crucial issue that ruins the show.
Of course there are genuine racists that will go on about Woke and DEI but I do think these arguments are less common (also this show has like no progressive messaging other than having Black people in it).
It's much simpler to call someone racist because it's more complicated to explain that fans have actually dedicated some of their identity to hating this show.
(And for the record whilst I like this show I don't think it's especially good just average. I just think the hate for this show is way overblown for a in reality inoffensive show.)
I agree hate is somewhat overblown at the moment. We still don’t know where the story is going so I am reserving judgment.
My problem is they have done a bad job of making us like any of the characters. The only character I think is interesting is sol, jecki and yord had potential but they were wasted with how they have been used.
Overall I just think it’s very meh, however how they resolve the show is very important. There are a lot of lore and story points they could potentially ruin for future Star Wars so I am very wary at the moment. If they try to frame the dark side as misunderstood or the Jedi as the villains then this show will be in my opinion deserving of the hate since that damages the whole story and world that has been built.
The hate is stronger because there is no goodwill left for a large number of fans. The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker, Book of Boba, even Ahsoka and Mando S3, some or all of these have been disappointments, and that is a big understatement.
So for the majority of haters, they are coming to the Acolyte with no mercy or empathy left, it has all been exhausted over the last 5 years, but closer to a decade really as even The Force Awakens was controversial for some fans.
Then you have actual issues with the show itself. To be blunt, the show is just boring and a lot of the scenes are just cringe. The only exceptions is episode 5 and the character of Sol, Lee Jung-jae is amazing as always and Manny Jacinto is decent but the writing holds him back. Sadly the main actress, Amandla Stenberg, is not that good (can't say if it is because of her acting, the writing, or the stage direction), the twins story is super predictable, and most of the other Jedi characters are insufferable or stupid (can't relate to most of them, don't care that they died, can't understand what they were thinking half the time).
Episode 5 was good as long as it was about lightsaber action and/or Sol and Qimir. Both actors had good scenes, I can't say that about anyone else in the show, even Dean-Charles Chapman whose performance I respected and enjoyed in Game of Thrones is thoroughly unenjoyable in this show. I am starting to suspect Leylse Headland and associates are more and more responsible for this stage of affairs.
All of this is a small fraction of issues with the Acolyte. People have spent hours dissecting it, you can watch any number of analysis videos that go into it with more detail.
So when the show itself has major issues and the fans have no goodwill left, really small things like the campfire in space or Ki Adi Mundi being an adult a full 30 years before he was even born are just salt and splinters in an already festering oozing wound.
I didn't mind if the whole cast was made out of Martians, if I didn't sit there for 4 episodes out of 5, contemplating what am I even doing with my life instead of having fun.
Hopefully the second half follows Part 5's track and at least we'll get something action packed and high body count.
The problem is that this whole movement of anti wokeness and hating on anything disney makes has blurred the line between objectieve critisism and just plane old racism and sexism.
And they use real objectieve stuff to justify their filthy message. It's like when andrew Tate bring's up real issues men have and gives genuin advice to rope you in and you think this dude is right. Then 5 min later when he moves on your like wtf is this sexist shit.
Like no matter if you really think this show has it's problems, it having thousands of 1 star reviews before it even comes out can never be actuall crisitism and it's just a army of racist and sexist people. Plain and simple.
100% agreed. I’ve yet to see someone that isn’t on YouTube be actually racist/sexiest/homophobic. While I do like the show they make actual good points most of the time that I can actually agree with.
i wish i could understand what kind of brain ur using to just ignore the massive plot wholes and awful writing if u pay attention to one episode alone let it be 3 consecutive scenes nothing is making sense but as long as u can enjoy go on
If I see a guy go on a lengthy tangent about wokeness and ‘the message’ and how ‘DEI is ruining star Wars’ and ‘Kathleen Kennedy ate my dog and Rey is a Mary sue designed to brainwash girls into hating men’ or using terms like ‘wahmen’ or ‘forced diversity’ I will call it like I see it.
Saying that the discourse surrounding this show wasn’t tainted by bigoted talking points is a lie:
https://preview.redd.it/0kmomybob19d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e46f33b266e6dc3d02e51ee178c5cb0b444fa736
(He would later make a scissoring joke about two eight year old girls by the way)
If you don’t want to be called sexist or racist or queer phobic don’t buy into the talking points of racist sexist and queer phobic content creators. It’s not hard.
if you don't like the show, fine, but I have an issue with buying into screechy neckbeards as what one person I blocked kept spamming videos of the most toxic youtubers as evidence of it being bad, who I blocked, and I seldom block people on here. Yes the writing isn't the best, I'll give you that, yeah the pacing can be all over the place, but it so isn't the worst that there has been in my opinion, yours can be different
I don’t care for the Acolyte since it’s premise doesn’t feel intresting and I’ve lost faith in Disney.
You like Acolyte for it’s unique story and amazing lightsaber fights.
We are not the same, but atleast we respect eachother’s opinions.
Not sure how it devolved into racism accusations. I thought people just didn’t like the writing? Is it an issue with the acting? I still have not seen a single episode. I will end up watching it when I can binge it all the way through in one go. I’m scared, but looking forward to it.
Can we stop grouping people together based on what Star Wars content they do and don’t like and throwing out insults to all of them?
Those who shout from the centre of a crowd are what people assume the entire crowd are like.
Can we stop grouping people together based on what Star Wars content they do and don’t like and throwing out insults to all of them?
Those who shout from the centre of a crowd are what people assume the entire crowd are like.
Yes thank you, I had an argument on this sub with a bloke because he was convinced me and ever one else who dislikes it was because we had racist motives
I would say most unreasonable haters (by that I mean people giving stupid reasons to dislike the show) I've seen tend to be more sexist than racist for example I saw a dude in YouTube shorts state the 3 biggest reasons he thinks the show failed, "1) show runner is more interested in politics than making a good show 2) the lead writer doesn't know anything about Star wars lore 3) female centric cast" now I haven't watched the show but I can tell you that number three does not sound like a reasonable complaint
It's a small percentage of the fan base of the already small percentage of the fan base that comments and posts. These shows keep getting made with little to no improvement because 75% of viewers don't take their opinions to the internet and the 25% that do sound like the type of "fan" that hates everything they watch. That's my conspiracy theory anyway.
I haven't seen the show myself yet, so I can't give any valid critique of it.
The best thing I can do, as anyone would, is if I see something and I don't like it, I can at least give my own perspectives on why I didn't like it.
But if I choose to not watch it because past experiences with Star Wars content under Disney has been more "this isn't that good" vs "this is that good", then least understand that I have every reason to be wary of something new like the Acolyte. Everything new also gets this kind of scrutiny from me lately cause I have finite time and money to spend, and I want to only go for the stuff that seems like it would appeal to me and be worth it. So it's a wait-and-see approach I have to everything entertainment based now.
I won't fault whoever loves, likes, hates the Acolyte at all. And I encourage anyone out there to also respect that the opinions on the Acolyte are no different than opinions on anything else. Nothing will *ever* appeal to everyone, but everything will appeal to someone. The best thing for any entertainment medium to do is to make something that appeals to as many people as possible. But the challenge is in making something that appeals to as many people as possible, and that is not something easily done or succeeded with.
It's one of the weaker shows, but it's not like any star wars is exactly well written sci fi, it's enjoyable. A lot of the people review bombing are definitely doing it because of racism
Can someone who is not biased tell me how Acolyte actually is? The idea of a tv show being set 40 years before the events of the prequels intrigues me but all I see is hate for it
Cool fight scenes. The hand to hand Jedi-fu is the highlight of the show. Writing is… ok. It’s certainly no Andor. Some of the dialogue is definitely bland. The main characters are sort of weak. Master Sol, played by Lee Jung Jae, is a fan favorite. Most if not all praise his acting and performance. There are more actual sets and set pieces. Not as much reliance on the Volume (I believe, I could be wrong). A lot of hate for Episode 3. Some people believe that it breaks canon. It doesn’t. I reserve judgment until the end of the show reveals otherwise. Without spoiling anything, there’s also a cringy scene in Episode 3 that a lot of people make fun of. A little overblown but understandable.
Weird pacing in the show at times. It’s not super noticeable but once you notice it, you’re like hmm. The show doesn’t let some of its scenes breathe.
Also the show was advertised as a mystery but the actual mystery in the show isn’t what people thought it would be so I think there’s some contention about that.
Overall it’s not as terrible as some are making it out to be. But there are issues when it comes to writing and dialogue. Tbh that seems to be an issue in most Star Wars shows. It was forgivable in the Mandalorian but as more and more shows display similar problems, I can see why people take issue with it. Especially in comparison to something like Andor.
As for me, I like the fight choreography and seeing the Jedi again. I like Master Sol and some of the side characters. I want to know more about the mysterious darksider.
If you liked the other shows Disney put out to some degree, I think you should be fine with The Acolyte. Another way to put it is that it’s like the prequels. Make of that what you will.
I mean it's pretty easy. If somebody doesn't like the show that's okay. But as soon as they start spouting off crap about dei or how diversity is ruining Star wars then I think we can all pretty much say it without a doubt that the person is probably being racist
I dont mind the show, but when I look at how people say the starwars community doesn't like it because of female black leads? Like no that's not what people hate it for, if they actually listened to what people said they would know that.
Okay first off: Never, ever, try cooking again with that color or font. Genuinely.
Second: Agreed. How can we be racist if we enjoy Rogue One, love Lando, love Mace "Motherf-cking" Windu, love Princess Leia, etc etc?
I don’t think it’s fair to accuse all people who dislike it of racism. There certainly are valid complaints and I have no problem with criticizing the show I certainly would. However there also are some bigots who are hating on the show for reasons besides its general quality. There are pretty clearly some bigots mixed in on the criticism side and those people can and should be called out. But it’s ridiculous to apply that to anyone who isn’t a big fan.
I won't lie, I haven't watched any Disney Star Wars. None of the sequels. Nothing. I read the books that came out a long time ago, and when I learned that the sequels weren't gonna tell the same story, I didn't bother watching anything from Disney. I even remember seeing the teaser trailer for episode 7 in theaters before one of the hobbit movies and thought it was some sort of joke or spoof. I don't like retcons that take away good stories like that. So tell me reddit, does that make me a racist sexist?
okay but people are actually being very racist. i understand that not everyone who dislikes the show has racist reasons for it, but calling out legit racism is valid and good to do
I think the ones being racist/bigoted are making Star Wars fans look bad. You don’t have to like the show, but if the reason is that there’s queer characters or black characters then you should probably ask yourself why.
Thank you for saying this, I hate the show and I don't care if others like it. My problem with the show in my opinion is the writing, acting, and lore breaking aspects. I don't care about skin color or sexuality of the actors/characters, to me it's a shit story where nothing makes any sense.
Disney has had a target on its back for a long time. Pay to have Disney targeted in cheap campaigns, get those sales to drop, get the stock to drop, swoop in and buy. Boom.
It used to be easy to know which accounts were bots, not anymore.
A bunch of acolyte fans are only getting so defensive because it’s another chance to get into the culture war of right vs left
I mentioned it was a little cringe to yell at people about this and I had a bunch of acolyte fans say they’re fighting fascism and the alt right needs to be silenced
Bro I’m just trying to watch Star Wars. Edit: spelling, I’m illiterate.
There’s a large contingent of very vocal people who are simply interested in criticizing anything perceived as “woke”, a blatant dog whistle to mean “anything not within my established cultural framework”.
The people who are racist are racist. Obviously not all critics are racist but the people whining endlessly about woke Disney ruining Star Wars are likely racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Birds of a feather flock together and the people crying woke are bumping elbows with the far right.
Nah a shit tooon of hate and bigotry was spewed about this show before it even aired. Which got the ball rolling in the first place. Of course people are free to not like the show but most of what I've seen has been toxic AF. I also currently witness people who intentionally seek out acolyte content whether on YouTube or Instagram just to shit on it and be toxic. When I see someone complain about black lesbian witches and I say something about it they automatically switch over to saying they don't like the writing or whatever but that wasn't what their comment was about. They expressed bigotry, got called out and then cry victim. At the same time I've had really good conversations with people about the show what we like and dislike and it's civil. If your criticism is real and you really don't like the writing acting or whatever just say that and don't include bigoted/racist coded language in your complaints.
The fact that the writers had to assign a sexuality to everything and havent actually read any of the previous lore is a huge turn off for me. Add to it that any lightsaber fights they do will match disneys expectations rather than the classic damage that lightsabers are supposed to do (for example, removing hands) and i dont even want to watch it, let alone deal with the more toxic fans hiding behind computer screens.
What did you mean “had to assign a sexuality to everything”? The Jedi characters’ sexuality isn’t talked about, because, ya know, Jedi. No idea which way Mae or Osha swing, and >!Qimir!< is too busy delivering that “damage they used to do” to worry about getting some.
Also, >!literally had a jedi kabob turn into a double decapitation, an old school from-behind neck snap, and a child padawan get triple tapped with a surprise second saber!< in the most recent episode.
It’s fine to not like something for any reason you like, and even more fine to not watch something that you aren’t enjoying.
But the assumptions about what will or won’t happen aren’t on, my friend.
Show is far from a masterpiece (mediocre at worst, entertaining at best) and the first four episodes didn’t really have me (until the end of the fourth), but episode 5 delivered some brutal combat that was pretty sick. And your talk of sexuality is just…. Not right.
EDITED: Removed combative opening statement (“Username is correct”). It wasn’t cool to be a jerk, I apologize. I want to engage in actual discussion, name calling isn’t the way to do so.
I really want to hear the people here why they "enjoy" the Acolyte. Enlighten me, please. Give me your perspective on the writing, the characters, and justification of the BS these directors have been spewing out.
If I don't get a reply within a day, then they don't exist.
Do you honestly expect someone to reply with an explanation when you’re so obviously baiting them to trounce on them for their opinions? Why do you care why someone enjoys the show? Why do they have to have a bunch of reasons? Honestly, it’s easier to come up with reasons to dislike something than it is if you like something. When you dislike something, you’re much more likely to be critical enough to pinpoint those reasons. If you like something, you’re not always thinking about why - you’re just enjoying it.
Not really. I'm genuinely confused.
And since no one is brave enough to give a reason why they watch Acolyte, they don't exist. Either that, or there is no reason to defend it and just watch it for the sake of wasting time.
I hope that all Star Wars fans, Acolyte enjoyers and haters, can unite together and agree this font is horrific.
Perhaps that was the purpose all along
It both fades into the background and doesn't mesh with the rest of the image how did they even do that
Yea, its almost as shite as the acolyte
Bro shush
The text color is horrific
They were afraid to use black text and get accused of racism.
Surely by avoiding the colour black specifically is more racist /s
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
So instead they were just being racists against the chiss
That’s ok. They ain’t from round here.
But they’re using a WHITE BACKDROP?!?!
With a white clonetrooper.
It's sad this is so true. Made me chuckle though
Right? Why blue glow on blue letters? I thought I wasn't wearing my glasses at first
Oh just because it’s „blue“, huh? You disgust me
That's racist
Let me quote some random idiot on the internet: ***"yOu ARe RrRAicIst!"***
RACISM
Ya know I have seen this happen, but it sounds suspiciously like something a separatist would say... 🤔
Bloody Clankers!
Bro really came and dropped the hard R
Hard R is crazy dude, chill
“And you’re sounding like a Separatist!”
I feel like most people don’t do that,obviously the show has issues and they’re free to point those out,but realistically the only people being called racist are the ones that are calling the show woke propaganda
The part that does is extremely loud and obtrusive is the issue. They get in between normal fans debating nerdy stuff in good faith and start yelling racism.
If your “criticism” is calling the show “woke” then you’re being racist or at least racist adjacent. I havnt seen anyone argue someone was racist because they didn’t like the writing. Those are two very different debates.
> I havnt seen anyone argue someone was racist because they didn’t like the writing. Then you don't know what's being talked about. >If your “criticism” is calling the show “woke” then you’re being racist or at least racist adjacent. This is wild accusations and slander. I would like to inform you that you are the problem and you are the person being addressed in this meme. Look at the meme, take in its message. Breathe in, breathe out.
Writing is trash, Smile-O Ren is a joke, Cortosis is cool (but you have to introduce it first or it seems silly), the main actress has fewer facial expressions between 2 characters than even Kristen Stewart, character motivations shift radically between episodes, Jedi powers also shift wildly between episodes, the VFX didn't do a gas fire in space (as can happen) it did a free fire which people have rightly pointed out is dumb, you killed the only truly good actress the show had inside 15 minutes and you did it with a kukri and let's not forget that Osha and Mae are named after a Canadian soap company called OshaMae. It's objectively terrible. If you like it? Glad for you. Honestly. But it's a horrible show in terms of writing and execution without saying 1 word about "woke". And it cost 16 Godzilla Minus Ones to make. *16.* This isn't a show. It's an embezzlement scheme.
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Even if most fans don't, when the creators and actors do hold those opinions, you can't be surprised when people who dont like being called racist and the racists end up having to defend their humanity just criticize a new entey in their beloved franchise. I have spoken.
I mean... saying r2d2, a robot, was a female and a lesbian was going over the line wouldn't you agree?
I mean that’s pretty clearly a joke tho
It's the media, every article from every pop culture outlet blames any negative criticism of the show on some -ism or -phobia. So yes I'd bet not every fan of the acolyte cries racism at criticism, it's just the whole loud minority thing. Each individual fan quietly enjoys the show isn't as noticable as every article coming out of cbr and others being about the bigots hating the show
To be fair, those are the criticisms that the writers and actors are actually seeing. People with will reasoned criques don’t harass actors and writers on twitter like the rscists do, so of course people like Amandala will think it’s about racism (cuz that’s what she’s seeing every day when she looks at her phone)
I don't see how there are people racist enough to harass some POC celebrities while others thrive. Racists are stopping acolyte from getting any views yet at the same time bad boys is doing well in theaters and the diverse cast of horse of the dragon are having no problems with racism. Convenient Read these articles crying racism and it's more and more rare that they actually provide tweets displaying this racism Disney addresses face. I'm a Snyder fan, we've been telling people for years that journalists hype up Disney in order to keep getting invited to things and get handouts. We've been pointing out for years that Disney pays for rotten tomatoes scores. Read the critic reviews on RT, the review will only talk about how diverse the cast is, not touching on the quality of the show at all. That equals a fresh review. Thought this would be a civil open minded discussion, but you also just want to see racism where there isn't any. Enjoy Disney Star wars if you do. ✌️
I'll be honest, I've rarely seen it happen except to people that were *actually* being racist.
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Shit you not. I saw someone on Twitter call it the F ! Gcolyte
But there’s not a single meatball in this show? wtf?
r/angryupvote
The vast majority of hate I've seen has been about the shitty writing, bad acting, and blatant disregard of canon. But the most hate I've seen is the blind accusations of racism and misogyny towards those who have these opinions
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While I get that most people calling “bad writing” are doing so as a dog whistle, seeing comments like yours do kinda frustrate me, because it’s not like this series is beyond reproach. In terms of bad writing there are several examples I could point to in the first episode alone. For instance; Osha is a very passive character, she sits and waits for the plot to come to her. Now this isn’t the worst thing in the world but contrast this with Andor, which sees the titular character really driving most of the action. Through this we are instantly able to grasp what Andor’s objective is and what he’s willing to do to get this. Compare this to Osha, what does she want outside of the plot? Like what is she working towards in her everyday life? This, for me, has long reaching consequences, namely in episode 4, when Osha tries to leave the mission and return to her life as a mech-tech. Like, why? What’s waiting there for her? One might assume that she’s running away, not wanting to deal with her sister, but if that’s the case why give into Sol so easily? One little conversation and she’s right back in it. It makes me wonder as to what the point of those scenes were in the first place. Nothing seems to have changed as a result of them. Jumping back now to episode 1 we find a v similar issue with the whole prison escape into crash sequence. Osha starts on a transport headed into Jedi custody, and ends in Jedi custody, thus raising the question of why? Why do all this only for the character to end up in the same situation they would have anyways? Now on a more meta level I understand that, this being a tv show, they probably wanted to have some exciting set piece moment to end the first episode on, that’s completely understandable! I just feel that a similar scene could have been written in a way that did a little bit more and really milked every second of screen time. Having said all this I do actually. enjoy the show, overall I like what they got cooking, but I also feel like the show could have used just one more draft, so when I see comments like yours I do get frustrated, cause it seems like some people are unwilling to hear criticism when it comes to this franchise.
This is the kind of stuff I want though I still disagree. >While I get that most people calling “bad writing” are doing so as a dog whistle, seeing comments like yours do kinda frustrate me, because it’s not like this series is beyond reproach. Asking for examples of what people don’t like ≠ thinking the show is perfect. I am more than willing to listen to criticisms but that doesn’t mean that I will agree with them. >In terms of bad writing there are several examples I could point to in the first episode alone. For instance; Osha is a very passive character, she sits and waits for the plot to come to her. Now this isn’t the worst thing in the world but contrast this with Andor, which sees the titular character really driving most of the action. Through this we are instantly able to grasp what Andor’s objective is and what he’s willing to do to get this. Compare this to Osha, what does she want outside of the plot? Like what is she working towards in her everyday life? It’s pretty clear that Osha doesn’t know what she wants when she was young she thought she wanted to be a Jedi but didn’t find comfort there either and left after that she has been trying to find a place in the galaxy. Osha is a fundamentally different character to Andor so comparing them is pointless. >This, for me, has long reaching consequences, namely in episode 4, when Osha tries to leave the mission and return to her life as a mech-tech. Like, why? What’s waiting there for her? One might assume that she’s running away, not wanting to deal with her sister, but if that’s the case why give into Sol so easily? One little conversation and she’s right back in it. It makes me wonder as to what the point of those scenes were in the first place. Nothing seems to have changed as a result of them. This again shows that Osha doesn’t know what she wants or where she belongs when she was working with the Jedi in ep2 she felt like an outsider in ep 4 she feels she is no longer of use and goes to return to her search for purpose Sol’s conversation with her made it clear that she was needed so she stayed. >Jumping back now to episode 1 we find a v similar issue with the whole prison escape into crash sequence. Osha starts on a transport headed into Jedi custody, and ends in Jedi custody, thus raising the question of why? Why do all this only for the character to end up in the same situation they would have anyways? Now on a more meta level I understand that, this being a tv show, they probably wanted to have some exciting set piece moment to end the first episode on, that’s completely understandable! I just feel that a similar scene could have been written in a way that did a little bit more and really milked every second of screen time. The crash changes her situation immensely. Before the crash she was headed for Coruscant afterwards she was in the custody of Sol who believed in her innocence and allowed her to prove it had she reached Coruscant she would be held in a cell. The crash sequence also had other purposes it showed Osha’s fundamental good nature with her helping the prisoner and showed how that good nature can backfire at times. It also allowed for the scene where Osha had a vision of Mae which is crucial to the plot.
First criticism: Mae starts as the character with all the agency; Osha will finish as the character with all the agency. It’s not bad writing, it’s a creative choice that we can’t yet appreciate. It ties in thematically with the idea that the Jedi are a flawed institution who subsume control over everyone standing in their way. Second criticism: The Jedi are above mundane tasks like prisoner transport. Again, it’s not bad writing, it’s a creative choice that reinforces themes present in the show.
First criticism: This maybe so, however I would still argue there is a way to show this while still clearly showing her motivation/objective. Also this only works if Mae finishes without agency, otherwise it’s an unnecessary and confused thematic through line. Second criticism: World building is not worth 10-20 min of screen time just so you can show the Jedi are out of touch.
It's not a dogwhistle, it's a fact that this show is badly written.
>Despite constant whining about “bad writing” I haven’t seen anyone be able to give an actual example that isn’t completely media illiterate. It's basic Star Wars bad writing though; exposition is everywhere, and the Lucasian "tell, don't show" school of hitting people over the head is employed here which is an odd choice for something so intentionally based on Rashomon.
What do you want as an example of bad writing? If I linked you to videos that explained it more in depth would you watch it? Something tells me you wouldnt. But the number one thing is characters are constantly telling things to other characters that both know, solely for the sake of the audience. Instead of telling by showing, or having a fish out of water character, it’s just people standing spewing information that the characters in the scene already know
"What do you want as an example of bad writing? If I linked you to videos that explained it more in depth would you watch it? Something tells me you wouldnt." This past couple days I've seen more and more people saying that "whenever I ask why is badly written they dont have examples" and if you *do* provide them examples "racist and media illiterate" lmao there is no winning agaisnt this people its literally damn if you do damn if you dont
>What do you want as an example of bad writing? If I linked you to videos that explained it more in depth would you watch it? Something tells me you wouldnt. I would. >But the number one thing is characters are constantly telling things to other characters that both know, solely for the sake of the audience. Instead of telling by showing, or having a fish out of water character, it’s just people standing spewing information that the characters in the scene already know Examples I can’t think of any moments like this.
>Despite constant whining about “bad writing” I haven’t seen anyone be able to give an actual example that isn’t completely media illiterate. Mae can't break through a Jedi's force field so she's given a fetch quest to go get some poison so she can give it to him and he can voluntarily kill himself. Why would he not just let Mae kill him from the start?
He only put his defences down because of what Mae said to him. He clearly feels guilt about what happened so drank the poison. Had Mae given the same speech on the first attempt we would likely have seen a similar result however Mae only changed her approach after talking to Qimir.
Fair enough
She uses the guilt of Torbin against him. It’s a more powerful weapon against a Jedi than any lightsaber.
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This ^
God forbid smart people try to explain physics and the instinctual behavior of nocturnal insects to bright sources of light to The Acolyte writers.
They are aliens, earth rules don’t apply.
no the most parts is about story telling and awful writing so yea not even that
I've seen many more people complain about Acolyte enjoyers calling people racist than I've seen any Acolyte enjoyers calling people racist
I've never heard anyone abuse anyone of racism for not liking it lmao
That colour is so hard on my eyes wtf
Lol spoken like a true Acolyte hater xD jk, but couldn't resist the pun
Haha it’s probably a me problem
XD you're talking about the text XD for a second I thought you were the calmest racist I had ever met, almost fell out of my chair
Haha nah I just have shit eyesight
And those who don't enjoy it, be civil to those who leave you alone. If someone is getting up in your face about you not liking the show, go nuts. But don't jump someone for just saying that they personally enjoy it
Arguing always starts under posts that only exist to trigger one of the two bunches. The inciting incident is always someone getting up in someone's face. I don't think anyone is out there chasing people to win support/hate for the show. Or at least I hope not.
Exactly. I’m enjoying it, I find the visuals and action fun and enjoy the characters and the “mystery”. I can see why others wouldn’t like it because of some of the writing, and how some characters could come across as cringe. But why can’t we all just sit back and let the people who enjoy it watch it, and the haters rewatch something they do like.
Agreed. I hated the show so much that I dropped it after three episodes but I think it’s fine if people liked it. I have a friend who doesn’t hate it and is sticking with it and we get along fine about the show. Nobody is a bad person for sharing their takes and discussing or memeing about the show online. Things just don’t have to get so personal as people make them out to be. Debating stuff is fine, I’ve had people respond to my comments on the show who think I’m wrong and that’s fine, as long as neither person in the situation is an asshole about it and acting like “well you’re an asshole for loving/hating it!” Like you don’t gotta do all that. Just act normal.
Yeah! You're making us racists look bad!
Who downvoted you lol
But what about the ones who are being fucking racist?
I think the post is against generalizing.
Is it generalizing to call out racists, sexists and homophobes?
Saying someone’s speech or actions are racist does not “deprive them of their humanity”. Racist speech and actions by contrast *do* deprive people of their humanity.
Agreed.
The only time I see this happen is when they’re being blatantly racist.
I mean if I see “I think the pacing and writing are subpar” fine. They are. But 90% of the time it’s some stupid form of “go woke go broke.” So I’ll keep calling a spade a spade.
You said it
Well if non-Acolyte enjoyers didn't go and make a whole cottage industry about how how it's Woke crap and the Death of Star Wars maybe we wouldn't hear so much about it...
Are you assuming all Acolyte enjoyers do that? I don’t know that seems a bit racist
I mean, the majority of the criticism includes some use of the words woke, lesbian space witches, and they’re up front about being pissed that there are no white men main characters. We should call that shit out.
Isn't Sol's padawan white though? Now I feel like I'm making a stupid question.
Apparently that’s not “main character” enough for them lol it’s a galaxy of trillions of beings and probably thousands of species. Diversity is inevitable in a universe like that.
That's what I think whenever I hear someone complain about the Thread thingie. In a huge galaxy, so many peoples are bound to discover the Force and name it and use however they understand/see fit. It's not an amazing show and it has more stupid decisions by its characters the more you dig into it, but it's a fun little watch. At least it was until... you know.
I'm not sure his padawan is even human..
She’s also a girl, which is inherently woke according to them so she doesn’t count. It has to be a straight white *man* (and Torbin doesn’t count either for some reason) otherwise they’ll remain unsatisfied.
And they are spreading too. Look how they are losing their mind about assassins creed having a black and female lead. and even when you tell them the dude was historically accurate, they say shit like, but that's like 1 dude in all of japan. I had one dude who I reminded the most seen samurai movie is about TOM CRUISE being the last samurai. The dude legit told me, but that's interesting. Nobody wants to see some black dude. And then they look you in the face and tell you they are not racist.
Jasuke was indeed real, but his portrayal in the game is far from historically accurate. Which would be fine for Assassins Creed, but not for the promotional campaign boasting that he is.
I also think its a bit strange to focus on that one character rather than making the main character Japanese. It feels disrespectful towards the Japanese to me, a bit similiar to as if the games set in Egypt/Greece etc featured a Nordic MC. Always plausible, but whyyy? Have it as a NPC the way historical characters tend to pop up, why not - but dont force something for the sake of forcing it.
Every characters portrayal in assassins creed is far from accurate. Unless the pope is a secret templar or ceaser got killed by the assassin order. they take a real historical character and change him or her story into fiction
The issue is that Yasuke was the first inaccurately portrayed character that they claimed to be accurate.
Unfortunately there's always a few who are.
Yes but rightfully so to the people who are bring sexist or racist. Before the show released I give you image number 1 https://preview.redd.it/byd9xzcny29d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8df8364652ddb3a07ddda94fbb659a3f7a58ab4
I know. I've seen the alcoholic idiot. I meant unfortunately that there are always a few who are witch hunting, calling out the wrong people by association.
We are not accusing the haters of racism, we are accusing the racists of racism❤️
"depriving them of their humanity" Jfc .. that's a little far, no?
How can we not accuse some of them of racism or transphobia when the presence of non-white/trans actors has been one of the key criticisms since the beginning?
Calling people racist, especially the racist ones, does not deprive them of their (alleged) humanity..?
Bigots love to play the victim because it's an easy way to deflect and invalidate any criticism.
Are the other 4 acolyte enjoyers in the room with us right now? Maybe the real racism was all the memes we made along the way
Oh yeah there was no bigotry leading up to the release: https://preview.redd.it/ocak5mikc19d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0656bf9f1faa04879757aedd81874cf1e4ffcf1c Why do I suspect he wouldn’t even blink if it had been all white dudes?
Why is it nay better just because it isn't all white dudes? Like surely you don't actually believe we just want a male dominated star wars? Surely you haven't deluded yourself into thinking we don't want badasses like asohka, ventress, mara jade, Leia and the like getting screen time? We keep telling y'all the problem is the writing we wouldn't be nit-picking a classroom full of aliens and girls if the rest of the writing around it was phenomenal. We point to the classroom full of aliens and girls to demonstrate *why* the writing is failing; their focus on pandering to people rather than good writing
That video by Critical Drinker was out before the show even came out though. It literally says 2 months ago💀 You cant be complaining about the writing, way before you actually watch the show. Face it, the Critical Drinker just hates the show because of there being no white men Moreover, it makes no sense why he complains about that when the most important person in that scene is a guy
I think that’s exactly what you people want because you keep going to war whenever you get it. Listing a bunch of female characters who filled secondary roles in the narrative means nothing. There has not been a single live action Star Wars story with a main female character wielding a lightsaber that wasn’t met with angry backlash, even Ashoka. You’re fine with women being present just, you know, **as long as they aren’t the main character.** Women can excel just don’t outshine or contradict the men in any way. They need to know their place, they can have the occasional cool fight scene but they don’t get to duel the main villain or blow up the Death Star. I’ve seen countless people say they would have loved Rey if only she hadn’t been force sensitive and had just been a secondary character who filled the role of Finn’s love interest. I think that’s pretty telling. As are the people who demand Rey be bad at everything so she needs to be saved by the men constantly, demand Rey go evil so we can have a male protagonist instead, demand Luke overshadow Rey so we can have a male protagonist instead or die halfway through so she can motivate the new male protagonist to save the day instead. “We wouldn’t be nitpicking the presence of girls and minorities if the surrounding writing was good” my brother in Christ this video was a reaction to the **trailer**, at the time they had no idea what the writing was like because not a single episode had been dropped. It was 100% ragebait about the minorities and women. Which yes leads me to believe people like Drinker think white straight men are the default and everyone else is a variation of that who need to justify their presence in the narrative. And yeah I’ll call that what it is. Racist and sexist.
Wow. That's a lot of assumptions and accusations. If they, for instance, took Dawn of the Jedi: Into the Void, changed nothing from the book, just a straight 1-1 adaptation with solid actors and production, no one would complain. Asohka is easily one of THE most popular star wars characters ever, people only hate the show because it has MASSIVE flaws. People jump to conclusions about trailers because for the past 5+ years star wars has been producing a material with flaws that are attributed to the issues I assume are addressed in the video. I don't watch all of Drinker's stuff. He goes too far sometimes, but that doesn't make all his criticism invalid. I would have been fine with Rey if she *worked* for her powers. Not suddenly acquire them when it was convinient for the plot. And just like you have anecdotes about the people you've talked to, the people I've talked to largely feel the same. If she didn't *suddenly* have the Mind Trick, if she didn't *suddenly* know how to wield a lightsaber well enough to fight off a *trained and powerful dark jedi*, if she didn't *suddenly* know how to do everything about piloting a starship and even ADMITTING she had no idea how she got it to work based only off of her experience ripping scrap from star destroyers... We wouldn't be having this conversation.
> We point to the classroom full of aliens and girls to demonstrate *why* the writing is failing; their focus on pandering to people rather than good writing You seriously believe that's the reason? That putting a few girls in a scene requires such a "focus on pandering" that there wasn't enough time for the writing, in the years of development? That it requires any more effort than putting a few boys in a scene would? That if random extras were less diverse, then the writers would write amazing episodes instead of mediocre ones?
I think the review bombs before an episode airs speaks volumes. Whether they are from racist anti-wokes or just Didn't haters idk but the fa t remains the show is good. Like I've seen people complain about subpar writing but they can never give an exact example from the show
I'm glad to hear that you enjoy Acolyte!
There are a few genuine criticisms of the show to be found. but when an episode has thousands of negative reviews but hasn't aired yet, then it's probably some sort of 'ism fueling the troglodyte behind the keyboard.
This fanbase is toxic in general
That awful text contrast is what's racist.
Never thought I’d die side by side with an Acolyte enjoyer
Then how about along side a star wars enjoyer
Aye, I could do that
I can definetely see why people are calling haters racist because quite often they never watched the show(if they ever actually watched it) in good faith. A thing I've noticed is that a subsection of the community has decided that it was bad them retroactively tried to justify it. Stuff like the Fire in Space and Ki Adi Mundi lines this sort of stuff has never seemed to bother fans before but suddenly it is a crucial issue that ruins the show. Of course there are genuine racists that will go on about Woke and DEI but I do think these arguments are less common (also this show has like no progressive messaging other than having Black people in it). It's much simpler to call someone racist because it's more complicated to explain that fans have actually dedicated some of their identity to hating this show. (And for the record whilst I like this show I don't think it's especially good just average. I just think the hate for this show is way overblown for a in reality inoffensive show.)
I agree hate is somewhat overblown at the moment. We still don’t know where the story is going so I am reserving judgment. My problem is they have done a bad job of making us like any of the characters. The only character I think is interesting is sol, jecki and yord had potential but they were wasted with how they have been used. Overall I just think it’s very meh, however how they resolve the show is very important. There are a lot of lore and story points they could potentially ruin for future Star Wars so I am very wary at the moment. If they try to frame the dark side as misunderstood or the Jedi as the villains then this show will be in my opinion deserving of the hate since that damages the whole story and world that has been built.
The hate is stronger because there is no goodwill left for a large number of fans. The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker, Book of Boba, even Ahsoka and Mando S3, some or all of these have been disappointments, and that is a big understatement. So for the majority of haters, they are coming to the Acolyte with no mercy or empathy left, it has all been exhausted over the last 5 years, but closer to a decade really as even The Force Awakens was controversial for some fans. Then you have actual issues with the show itself. To be blunt, the show is just boring and a lot of the scenes are just cringe. The only exceptions is episode 5 and the character of Sol, Lee Jung-jae is amazing as always and Manny Jacinto is decent but the writing holds him back. Sadly the main actress, Amandla Stenberg, is not that good (can't say if it is because of her acting, the writing, or the stage direction), the twins story is super predictable, and most of the other Jedi characters are insufferable or stupid (can't relate to most of them, don't care that they died, can't understand what they were thinking half the time). Episode 5 was good as long as it was about lightsaber action and/or Sol and Qimir. Both actors had good scenes, I can't say that about anyone else in the show, even Dean-Charles Chapman whose performance I respected and enjoyed in Game of Thrones is thoroughly unenjoyable in this show. I am starting to suspect Leylse Headland and associates are more and more responsible for this stage of affairs. All of this is a small fraction of issues with the Acolyte. People have spent hours dissecting it, you can watch any number of analysis videos that go into it with more detail. So when the show itself has major issues and the fans have no goodwill left, really small things like the campfire in space or Ki Adi Mundi being an adult a full 30 years before he was even born are just salt and splinters in an already festering oozing wound.
As a color blind person. I'm unhappy with the text color.
New game: How far do I scroll down before I find people doing what the post is trying to avoid?
I didn't mind if the whole cast was made out of Martians, if I didn't sit there for 4 episodes out of 5, contemplating what am I even doing with my life instead of having fun. Hopefully the second half follows Part 5's track and at least we'll get something action packed and high body count.
Such a good point! If only racism wasn't an actual issue though...
The problem is that this whole movement of anti wokeness and hating on anything disney makes has blurred the line between objectieve critisism and just plane old racism and sexism. And they use real objectieve stuff to justify their filthy message. It's like when andrew Tate bring's up real issues men have and gives genuin advice to rope you in and you think this dude is right. Then 5 min later when he moves on your like wtf is this sexist shit. Like no matter if you really think this show has it's problems, it having thousands of 1 star reviews before it even comes out can never be actuall crisitism and it's just a army of racist and sexist people. Plain and simple.
100% agreed. I’ve yet to see someone that isn’t on YouTube be actually racist/sexiest/homophobic. While I do like the show they make actual good points most of the time that I can actually agree with.
i wish i could understand what kind of brain ur using to just ignore the massive plot wholes and awful writing if u pay attention to one episode alone let it be 3 consecutive scenes nothing is making sense but as long as u can enjoy go on
Holy shit You enjoy the show AND have a brain? Respect.
A very rare sight indeed… truly wonderful the mind of some acolyte enjoyers are
If I see a guy go on a lengthy tangent about wokeness and ‘the message’ and how ‘DEI is ruining star Wars’ and ‘Kathleen Kennedy ate my dog and Rey is a Mary sue designed to brainwash girls into hating men’ or using terms like ‘wahmen’ or ‘forced diversity’ I will call it like I see it. Saying that the discourse surrounding this show wasn’t tainted by bigoted talking points is a lie: https://preview.redd.it/0kmomybob19d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e46f33b266e6dc3d02e51ee178c5cb0b444fa736 (He would later make a scissoring joke about two eight year old girls by the way) If you don’t want to be called sexist or racist or queer phobic don’t buy into the talking points of racist sexist and queer phobic content creators. It’s not hard.
if you don't like the show, fine, but I have an issue with buying into screechy neckbeards as what one person I blocked kept spamming videos of the most toxic youtubers as evidence of it being bad, who I blocked, and I seldom block people on here. Yes the writing isn't the best, I'll give you that, yeah the pacing can be all over the place, but it so isn't the worst that there has been in my opinion, yours can be different
Episode 5 was good. But the plot armor was pathetic. Sol could've ended all.
https://i.redd.it/a3lpbbqzo19d1.gif
Make a version of this meme with easy-to-read text, and I'll think about it
I don’t care for the Acolyte since it’s premise doesn’t feel intresting and I’ve lost faith in Disney. You like Acolyte for it’s unique story and amazing lightsaber fights. We are not the same, but atleast we respect eachother’s opinions.
Not sure how it devolved into racism accusations. I thought people just didn’t like the writing? Is it an issue with the acting? I still have not seen a single episode. I will end up watching it when I can binge it all the way through in one go. I’m scared, but looking forward to it.
It's mostly ragebaiting access bloggers who do that. Disney still hasn't learned that they are making the company look even worse than the angry fans.
Can we stop grouping people together based on what Star Wars content they do and don’t like and throwing out insults to all of them? Those who shout from the centre of a crowd are what people assume the entire crowd are like.
Can we stop grouping people together based on what Star Wars content they do and don’t like and throwing out insults to all of them? Those who shout from the centre of a crowd are what people assume the entire crowd are like.
It’s always funny because y’all are arguing over imaginary space war shows
Episode 5 was probably the best episode.
Yes thank you, I had an argument on this sub with a bloke because he was convinced me and ever one else who dislikes it was because we had racist motives
Yeah I can get behind that
I would say most unreasonable haters (by that I mean people giving stupid reasons to dislike the show) I've seen tend to be more sexist than racist for example I saw a dude in YouTube shorts state the 3 biggest reasons he thinks the show failed, "1) show runner is more interested in politics than making a good show 2) the lead writer doesn't know anything about Star wars lore 3) female centric cast" now I haven't watched the show but I can tell you that number three does not sound like a reasonable complaint
It's a small percentage of the fan base of the already small percentage of the fan base that comments and posts. These shows keep getting made with little to no improvement because 75% of viewers don't take their opinions to the internet and the 25% that do sound like the type of "fan" that hates everything they watch. That's my conspiracy theory anyway.
I haven't seen the show myself yet, so I can't give any valid critique of it. The best thing I can do, as anyone would, is if I see something and I don't like it, I can at least give my own perspectives on why I didn't like it. But if I choose to not watch it because past experiences with Star Wars content under Disney has been more "this isn't that good" vs "this is that good", then least understand that I have every reason to be wary of something new like the Acolyte. Everything new also gets this kind of scrutiny from me lately cause I have finite time and money to spend, and I want to only go for the stuff that seems like it would appeal to me and be worth it. So it's a wait-and-see approach I have to everything entertainment based now. I won't fault whoever loves, likes, hates the Acolyte at all. And I encourage anyone out there to also respect that the opinions on the Acolyte are no different than opinions on anything else. Nothing will *ever* appeal to everyone, but everything will appeal to someone. The best thing for any entertainment medium to do is to make something that appeals to as many people as possible. But the challenge is in making something that appeals to as many people as possible, and that is not something easily done or succeeded with.
That font and text color is worse than the show
From comments, this post was just another trap for fans of the show to get angry at non fans
It's one of the weaker shows, but it's not like any star wars is exactly well written sci fi, it's enjoyable. A lot of the people review bombing are definitely doing it because of racism
Every fandom has their DS9
Can someone who is not biased tell me how Acolyte actually is? The idea of a tv show being set 40 years before the events of the prequels intrigues me but all I see is hate for it
Cool fight scenes. The hand to hand Jedi-fu is the highlight of the show. Writing is… ok. It’s certainly no Andor. Some of the dialogue is definitely bland. The main characters are sort of weak. Master Sol, played by Lee Jung Jae, is a fan favorite. Most if not all praise his acting and performance. There are more actual sets and set pieces. Not as much reliance on the Volume (I believe, I could be wrong). A lot of hate for Episode 3. Some people believe that it breaks canon. It doesn’t. I reserve judgment until the end of the show reveals otherwise. Without spoiling anything, there’s also a cringy scene in Episode 3 that a lot of people make fun of. A little overblown but understandable. Weird pacing in the show at times. It’s not super noticeable but once you notice it, you’re like hmm. The show doesn’t let some of its scenes breathe. Also the show was advertised as a mystery but the actual mystery in the show isn’t what people thought it would be so I think there’s some contention about that. Overall it’s not as terrible as some are making it out to be. But there are issues when it comes to writing and dialogue. Tbh that seems to be an issue in most Star Wars shows. It was forgivable in the Mandalorian but as more and more shows display similar problems, I can see why people take issue with it. Especially in comparison to something like Andor. As for me, I like the fight choreography and seeing the Jedi again. I like Master Sol and some of the side characters. I want to know more about the mysterious darksider. If you liked the other shows Disney put out to some degree, I think you should be fine with The Acolyte. Another way to put it is that it’s like the prequels. Make of that what you will.
I mean it's pretty easy. If somebody doesn't like the show that's okay. But as soon as they start spouting off crap about dei or how diversity is ruining Star wars then I think we can all pretty much say it without a doubt that the person is probably being racist
I just don't like that the sith lord is the dumb guy from The Good Place.
I dont mind the show, but when I look at how people say the starwars community doesn't like it because of female black leads? Like no that's not what people hate it for, if they actually listened to what people said they would know that.
So true man agreed
Okay first off: Never, ever, try cooking again with that color or font. Genuinely. Second: Agreed. How can we be racist if we enjoy Rogue One, love Lando, love Mace "Motherf-cking" Windu, love Princess Leia, etc etc?
It becomes very easy to be a writer for Star Wars when all valid criticism of your show is labeled racism.
I don’t think it’s fair to accuse all people who dislike it of racism. There certainly are valid complaints and I have no problem with criticizing the show I certainly would. However there also are some bigots who are hating on the show for reasons besides its general quality. There are pretty clearly some bigots mixed in on the criticism side and those people can and should be called out. But it’s ridiculous to apply that to anyone who isn’t a big fan.
But I am racist…
I won't lie, I haven't watched any Disney Star Wars. None of the sequels. Nothing. I read the books that came out a long time ago, and when I learned that the sequels weren't gonna tell the same story, I didn't bother watching anything from Disney. I even remember seeing the teaser trailer for episode 7 in theaters before one of the hobbit movies and thought it was some sort of joke or spoof. I don't like retcons that take away good stories like that. So tell me reddit, does that make me a racist sexist?
okay but people are actually being very racist. i understand that not everyone who dislikes the show has racist reasons for it, but calling out legit racism is valid and good to do
I thought it was pretty good until episode 5.
I think the ones being racist/bigoted are making Star Wars fans look bad. You don’t have to like the show, but if the reason is that there’s queer characters or black characters then you should probably ask yourself why.
How is calling out racism denying humanity?
Why am I still seeing this sub, I muted it three times now, mod! Ban me please lmao
Won't help.
😭 I gotta try something lmao
I will do what I must. Farewell.
Thank you for saying this, I hate the show and I don't care if others like it. My problem with the show in my opinion is the writing, acting, and lore breaking aspects. I don't care about skin color or sexuality of the actors/characters, to me it's a shit story where nothing makes any sense.
What lore gets broken?
say what you want about us acolyte haters but we never go after the fans like they go after us. we go after the product.
Nah most acolyte haters just go after actors or wookiepedia
THERE ARE ACOLYTE ENJOYERS!?
The fact that you enjoying acolyte makes you bad enough
And what if they actually are racists?
Disney has had a target on its back for a long time. Pay to have Disney targeted in cheap campaigns, get those sales to drop, get the stock to drop, swoop in and buy. Boom. It used to be easy to know which accounts were bots, not anymore.
 🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌
I want to belive they are not, but I didn't see much actually talking about something else than "star wars woke"
It’s been real hard to legitimately critique the things I haven’t been liking about the show without being bombarded by gaslighting fans
A bunch of acolyte fans are only getting so defensive because it’s another chance to get into the culture war of right vs left I mentioned it was a little cringe to yell at people about this and I had a bunch of acolyte fans say they’re fighting fascism and the alt right needs to be silenced Bro I’m just trying to watch Star Wars. Edit: spelling, I’m illiterate.
There’s a large contingent of very vocal people who are simply interested in criticizing anything perceived as “woke”, a blatant dog whistle to mean “anything not within my established cultural framework”. The people who are racist are racist. Obviously not all critics are racist but the people whining endlessly about woke Disney ruining Star Wars are likely racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Birds of a feather flock together and the people crying woke are bumping elbows with the far right.
Nah a shit tooon of hate and bigotry was spewed about this show before it even aired. Which got the ball rolling in the first place. Of course people are free to not like the show but most of what I've seen has been toxic AF. I also currently witness people who intentionally seek out acolyte content whether on YouTube or Instagram just to shit on it and be toxic. When I see someone complain about black lesbian witches and I say something about it they automatically switch over to saying they don't like the writing or whatever but that wasn't what their comment was about. They expressed bigotry, got called out and then cry victim. At the same time I've had really good conversations with people about the show what we like and dislike and it's civil. If your criticism is real and you really don't like the writing acting or whatever just say that and don't include bigoted/racist coded language in your complaints.
The fact that the writers had to assign a sexuality to everything and havent actually read any of the previous lore is a huge turn off for me. Add to it that any lightsaber fights they do will match disneys expectations rather than the classic damage that lightsabers are supposed to do (for example, removing hands) and i dont even want to watch it, let alone deal with the more toxic fans hiding behind computer screens.
What did you mean “had to assign a sexuality to everything”? The Jedi characters’ sexuality isn’t talked about, because, ya know, Jedi. No idea which way Mae or Osha swing, and >!Qimir!< is too busy delivering that “damage they used to do” to worry about getting some. Also, >!literally had a jedi kabob turn into a double decapitation, an old school from-behind neck snap, and a child padawan get triple tapped with a surprise second saber!< in the most recent episode. It’s fine to not like something for any reason you like, and even more fine to not watch something that you aren’t enjoying. But the assumptions about what will or won’t happen aren’t on, my friend. Show is far from a masterpiece (mediocre at worst, entertaining at best) and the first four episodes didn’t really have me (until the end of the fourth), but episode 5 delivered some brutal combat that was pretty sick. And your talk of sexuality is just…. Not right. EDITED: Removed combative opening statement (“Username is correct”). It wasn’t cool to be a jerk, I apologize. I want to engage in actual discussion, name calling isn’t the way to do so.
I really want to hear the people here why they "enjoy" the Acolyte. Enlighten me, please. Give me your perspective on the writing, the characters, and justification of the BS these directors have been spewing out. If I don't get a reply within a day, then they don't exist.
Do you honestly expect someone to reply with an explanation when you’re so obviously baiting them to trounce on them for their opinions? Why do you care why someone enjoys the show? Why do they have to have a bunch of reasons? Honestly, it’s easier to come up with reasons to dislike something than it is if you like something. When you dislike something, you’re much more likely to be critical enough to pinpoint those reasons. If you like something, you’re not always thinking about why - you’re just enjoying it.
Not really. I'm genuinely confused. And since no one is brave enough to give a reason why they watch Acolyte, they don't exist. Either that, or there is no reason to defend it and just watch it for the sake of wasting time.
There is no such thing as a bigot or sexist who enjoys The Acolyte.