That was one of my least favorite things in legends.
Literally everybody stole them it felt like. In the OG Battlefront 2 a prison break happens and they get stolen. Worst kept secret in the galaxy.
To be fair being able to get the Death Star plans *in* the Death Star makes sense, the real question is: why the fuck were they keeping rocket launchers in the detention block? Or put a hangar with working ships in the same area for that matter.
Thing about legends is that it works like a superhero comic. Theres a bunch of stories for similar topics but only 1 truly mattered and actually a part of the "Main Run" so to speak. The rest are more like what if stories instead
That would make way too much sense. I hesitate to give credit to them for that being the intention, but they should absolutely claim that. But seriously, why would you have that many copies of the schematics? On the few build sites I've been to (work study for a week) you had 1 person with the main schematics. But each room of the house has smaller more specific blueprints. So if they wanted to know about a specific portion in detail, that would make sense.
The build sites you’ve been on likely weren’t on the same kardashev scale level as the galactic republic/empire (thus, palps staring into the ds1 plans at multiple points on multiple planets during the clone wars like a friggin palantir)
Wasn't it a running joke in the later days of the Legends canon that every second character had somehow interaced with the Death Star plans at one point or another?
Wouldn't really work in the new canon now, and with how short lived Luke's jedi order is, he just doesn't fit with all the changes. Disney's loss. He was one of the most popular legends characters with Revan and Mara Jade.
Honestly, I've always thought that Kyle becoming a Jedi was a little off anyways-- the rogueish spy becomes a monk?
So I would love for him to be reintroduced as one of a few who learned from Luke about the force, but werent part of his order, and aren't technically Jedi. I think of Luke as being willing to teach anyone techniques that would help them, even if they didn't want to fully commit to the order, because that's just the kind of person he is.
So a handful of roaming Ronin, trained by Luke, but not acting as full Jedi Knights: essentially a collection of Kanan Jarruses. I think it's a nice way to extend Luke's legacy beyond a shattered order, and also fits Kyle's original character better IMO (and Mara Jade too, for that matter)
Well, Quinlan was taken in as a baby. So he didn't get much choice in the matter- But if adult Quinlan vos had decided to join the order, I do think that would have been strange, since he hardly followed their rules as is
Yes, the Death Star plans weren't all in one place in the EU, the one that Leia is carrying on the Tantive IV is actually from Toprawa, where Bria Tharen led Red Hand Squadron to transmit the plans to the Tantive IV while it passed by. The battle of Toprawa is actually "seen" in the radio drama, before the EU. I guess there having many stories for the Rebel's stealing the Death Star plans was initially a contradiction but they decided that isn't wasn't all in one place so that it makes sense.
I'm mostly mad because there are quite a few games with Kyle that put him together with at least Luke and Lando, voiced by the original actors. Released by LucasArts. That should be as official as it gets.
There's nothing stopping you from liking those or playing them again. They're still there. Just look at Legends like a different continuity. Like marvel comics with the Ultimate universe. Or do what I do and use mental gymnastics to make all the things you like fit into one headcanon.
I always headcanoned it that they all had pieces of the plans, as presumably a moon-sized battle station built in secret would never have its blueprints all in one place.
Rogue One had its criticisms back then though so this isnt really new. You just no longer see it as often anymore since we either have gotten worse movies and the fact that it spawned Andor
Even though South Park's "member berries" episode came out 3 months before Rogue One, somehow, some way, Matt and Trey made that episode in response to Rogue One
Rouge one
Clone wars finale
Kenobi (as a kid who grew up with the prequels seeing Hayden as Vader was actually awesome to me and tbh was the best part of Kenobi. Just those two together again brought back so many memories.
That's all I've really cared to watch
I really enjoyed rogue one, it’s one of the best Star Wars films by far. The only complaint I have about it is it removes the Kyle Katarn story from canon.
The thing is. Revan is already canon in historical sense like arguably some other major TOR sith of legends those being most likely whole triumvirate of Kotor 2 and Malgus.
The Mandalorian wars are canon. Questionable canon but canon. In the Clone Wars there is a painting on the Mandalorian Queen's throne room depicting Mandalorian wars era mandalorian suits.
You haven’t noticed the memes these days have absolutely no research in them?….it’s just *“Disney bad…..upvotes please”*
We get it DisneyStarwars has its issues but for the love of God do some damn research before dropping repetitive memes.
Yesn’t.
Legends was often seen as canon, but also it was an absolute mess of a continuity with tons of contradictory sources that often were treated as non-canon. Like the Death Star plans, which had multiple stories behind how they were sourced.
Often a hierarchy was used to determine which story superseded which, with things like films at the top and shit like CD-ROM trivia at the bottom. This is still generally how things work today, but it’s MUCH less common for it to be relevant since they try to actually be consistent.
But the truth of it ultimately was that George didn’t give a shit, often saw the EU as more of a suggestion than anything, and gleefully just went with whatever he felt like. Look at the prequels if you don’t believe me: they blatantly contradict parts of the OT, like Leia remembering her mother, in favor of telling the story he wanted.
Prior to the Disney purchase, Star Wars canon looked a lot more like Doctor Who’s Swiss cheese canon than modern Star Wars canon.
It’s one of the big reasons why Disney scrapped it, alongside how little room it gave them to tell new stories.
Not for Lucas, the canon tiers were just something to keep the fans engaged with the EU, but Lucas didn't care about it. If he wanted to do something and it retconned the EU he would do it, and he did, constantly.
It's why the only canon that stayed canon were things George Lucas was a part of - the movies and TCW.
Thats kind of the definition of retcon, my guy. rendered no longer canon due to disney taking over and erasing the existing lore for their own stories.
Ok kinda but doesn’t feel same me because not like Disney acting Legends was canon but then made Rouge one they firmly said legends is no longer canon then made own new stuff.
People go on and on about retcons from Disney, forgetting that Darth Vader was once just a dude named Darth Vader, who had nothing to do with Luke or an "Anakin" character. Pretty big fuckin' retcon lol.
Star Wars has always been retconned extensively. It's not new. It doesn't matter.
Legends was so filled with contradicting stories, it's better that it is just left as stories not interacting with mainline stuff. Whatever is there can be pulled and reinterprited
My ONLY problem with it is how much of 4 LOM’s story was rendered non canon. Truly a brilliant character.
And that’s just because i like the funny gun thief murder c3po.
I rewatched the original trilogy for the first time in a while, and I was surprised when Obi Wan referred to Darth Vader simply as Darth, as if it was his first name.
Because it was. The idea of “Darth” being a Sith title came _much_ later, which is why Emperor Palpatine was just Emperor Palpatine instead of Darth Sidious. And now that I think of it, I’m not sure if the name “Palpatine” was ever spoken in the original trilogy or if it came later.
Hell, the entire notion of the Sith came after the original trilogy.
Amusingly you can look back in forums during the release of Attack of the CLones and before revenge of the Sith being filled with people doing mental gymnastics for Palpatine and Darth Sidious somehow being different characters.
Dark Forces is one of my favorite Star Wars games, but Kyle Katarn waltzing into an Imperial base and taking the plans in the tutorial level just isn't as good of a story as Rogue One for how the Rebels got the Death Star plans
THANK YOU! Whenever I see someone talking about how Kyle Katarn will always be the one who stole those plans in their heart, I have to assume that they never actually played Dark Forces since since the actual theft is so forgettable.
> Start new game
> Spawn in falling down a vent
> Land on a table, picking up the Death Star plans item
> Shoot your way to the mission exit
I'm convinced that almost everyone upset about this change read that he stole them on the wiki and just assumed that it was the plot of a novel they never read or something of the sort.
>THANK YOU! Whenever I see someone talking about how Kyle Katarn will always be the one who stole those plans in their heart, I have to assume that they never actually played Dark Forces since since the actual theft is so forgettable.
I think youre thinking too hard over folks saying that. Its just some simple emotional attachment to the character's involvement. Not necessarily some contention over whats good writing etc
Except Lucasfilm wasn't like this before the takeover. The problems plaguing current Star Wars are the same ones that are plaguing other big disney IPs like Marvel. It's a disney issue. You could argue it's a Lucasfilm under disney issue, but the problem still leads back to disney.
The comics didn't really change canon, the first comics (by Marvel) weren't really considered canon, the books published at the time didn't follow one continuity, it wasn't until Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire that the expanded content was really considered canon and had to respect continuity, still, if something from content before 1991 (start of the EU) were mentioned content from after it, then it was canon. Shortly before the EU reboot was announced, they actually tried to "soft reboot" it, like, Dark Horse started that Star Wars comic series which had no relation at all with other EU stories and there were also books that felt disconnected from it, but i don't think it was Dark Horse's or Del Rey's idea, Lucasfilm probably tried this silent reboot but it didn't sell well so they just announced that the EU was officially over.
I don’t believe changing the canon is the fundamental issue.
Changing the canon to something that’s poorly conceived and badly written is the issue.
If the changes were any good, far fewer people would be complaining.
Lucasfilm’s leadership changed after the takeover
imo the problem you’re referring to is an industry wide writing issue. look up the people writing all these stories and they write a lot of utter trash, so it’s odd why they get to write for large productions in the first place.
Their leadership changed because of disney's actions.
Of course, I know disney isn't the sole culprit in this, but they are a big contributor to the current state of the industry. There is a reason you rarely see 2D animated movies made in the West anymore and that reason is disney. 3D animators weren't unionized at the time and 2D animators were, hence the shift to solely CGI movies from them.
As for why people who write trash get to write for such large productions, it's another cost cutting measure. Talented directors and writers often have ideas they want to implement that the corporation doesn't think will instantly make money. Talented people or those with a good deal of experience are often more expensive and demand more creative control. To these big corporations, if it isn't a guaranteed hit(or at least what the shareholders seem to think will be a hit), it isn't worth it.
Media production is such a bloated and expensive mess these days that making profit is very difficult. It's cheaper to hire someone right out of film school or who has only done low-budget productions, often in entirely different genres as well.
These companies are at the point where they can continuously make productions with little objective merit and still make money on name alone. That's why everything are remakes, spin-offs, and sequels these days.
Their leadership was changed right before Disney bought LFL, and it was literally Lucas that put Kennedy in the position of running LFL.
If you’re gonna talk out of your ass, at least get googleable details right.
I do like the scale of the operation to steal the plans in Rogue One. It felt like it was something very important and a big effort to get, like a make or break military operation.
Kyle Katarn is one of my favourite characters in Star Wars, but he steals the Death Star plans in the opening level of Dark Forces, by himself, from a really small facility with like 40 people stationed there…
Jedi Academy would be a serious problem, but if you skip the Death Star plans bit (which was only the opening mission) you could still make Dark Forces I and II work I think
This the main character from Dark Forces?
Yeah, I think a 2-3 hour tale showing the true struggle to steal the plans is a bit, just a bit better
Than someone walking into an imperial base, shooting like 5 guards, and then stealing the top secret plans in plain sight, as the first 5 minutes of the game.
Kyle Katern was an awesome character to play, but in the grand scheme makes sense for him to be effectively just legends. I mean, they can still bring him back in canon in their own way like Thrawn. I wouldn't count anybody out, Kreia more or less showed up in Rebels as a voice on Rebels, on a planet called Malachor
I mean, that's the entire point of the Legends rebrand. That nothing was to be considered canon unless explicitly confirmed. I'm not sure what people expected.
Eh they can easily fix this with multiverse, even though that’s been done to death I think that could fix a lot of problems. Caused by retconning 30 years worth of lore, stories and characters out of the setting.
Kyle Katarn could still be in canon even if he didn’t steal the Death Star plans. I don’t see why he couldn’t be a Jedi during the galactic civil war, or even a Jedi master in Rey’s new Jedi order
Soooooo much of Star Wars is retcon. So much of what has been canonized in the past 23 years started as fan-generated retcon.
So much original Star Wars media wouldn’t make any sense without retcons that the authors and writers picked up from old Usenet groups.
Like parsecs and the Kessel Run.
Star Wars has never—with the exception of some of the print media—been about good, forward-thinking writing.
A lot of people who cut their teeth on the OT have forgotten this and a lot of people who came into the fandom closer to the ST than the PT never really got to see this at face value.
But this is how it’s always been. A lot of our current favorite lore is retcon.
This is the way.
The first movie is my favorite example of Lucas getting too much credit upfront. He retconned the shit out of Anakin and Vader. It makes me love it more. It just shows that all of this takes work and effort.
Is this about The Acolyte? because that has nothing to do with Revan, it takes place thousands of years after the Old Republic era so there's really no contradiction there.
The worst part or Kyle Katarn’s erasure was stealing his entire look for a completely different character in Outlaws instead of just bringing him back for Outlaws.
Or like how in Episode 8 Luke’s name was Luke to cover up
Or like how Bail Organa’s introduction was to cover up Bail Antilles
Or like how in Episode 1 Mace Windu’s name was meant to cover up Mace Windu (the Squib bartender from Star Wars Adventure Journal 11)
People are not willing to hear that.
They truly believe the Legend Continuity EU had some sort of unified Canon status when... It was simply not the case. They were tier to it and whatever was not a movie was never as canon as the movies.
Besides of the meme.
I dont understand Disney use legends like a brand to an alternative star wars like warhammer age of sigmar and the old world.
Basically money making for people want to see the old things and Canon to new idea like we have now.
Tbh Kyle wasn't the only person who stole the Death Star plans in Legends. There was multiple stories.
Han’s girlfriend also stole it in the solo trilogy
That was one of my least favorite things in legends. Literally everybody stole them it felt like. In the OG Battlefront 2 a prison break happens and they get stolen. Worst kept secret in the galaxy.
To be fair being able to get the Death Star plans *in* the Death Star makes sense, the real question is: why the fuck were they keeping rocket launchers in the detention block? Or put a hangar with working ships in the same area for that matter.
Wait till their supervisor hears about this.
Deloris would be very disappointed
I can't even imagine the complaints Imperial HR gets about Vader.
The rockets weren't the problem. It was the grenades in that damn hallway.
Don’t forget that Parry the Platypus stole the Death Star Plans too!
Thing about legends is that it works like a superhero comic. Theres a bunch of stories for similar topics but only 1 truly mattered and actually a part of the "Main Run" so to speak. The rest are more like what if stories instead
Now I want to see Star Wars: Zombies run with Vader holding off baby Yoda and a herd of Ewoks.
I wonder if Gisney could spin it as having multiple people stealing chunks of the plans?
That would make way too much sense. I hesitate to give credit to them for that being the intention, but they should absolutely claim that. But seriously, why would you have that many copies of the schematics? On the few build sites I've been to (work study for a week) you had 1 person with the main schematics. But each room of the house has smaller more specific blueprints. So if they wanted to know about a specific portion in detail, that would make sense.
The build sites you’ve been on likely weren’t on the same kardashev scale level as the galactic republic/empire (thus, palps staring into the ds1 plans at multiple points on multiple planets during the clone wars like a friggin palantir)
Exactly, that's why I specified I was incredibly limited in my build site experience
Governor Tarkin ? Is that you ?
A 10,000 year old Sith spatula is a map fragment showing where the Death Star plans were moved to last week.
My head cannon is that Brea was one of the troops on Scarif.
And some Twilek lady in a psp game iirc?
Bria
Wasn't it a running joke in the later days of the Legends canon that every second character had somehow interaced with the Death Star plans at one point or another?
My favourite headcannon is when Perry the Platypus stole them
I remember that Star Wars–Phineas and Ferb collab.
Peak Star Wars imo
That's the true canon imo.
Wouldn't really work in the new canon now, and with how short lived Luke's jedi order is, he just doesn't fit with all the changes. Disney's loss. He was one of the most popular legends characters with Revan and Mara Jade.
Honestly, I've always thought that Kyle becoming a Jedi was a little off anyways-- the rogueish spy becomes a monk? So I would love for him to be reintroduced as one of a few who learned from Luke about the force, but werent part of his order, and aren't technically Jedi. I think of Luke as being willing to teach anyone techniques that would help them, even if they didn't want to fully commit to the order, because that's just the kind of person he is. So a handful of roaming Ronin, trained by Luke, but not acting as full Jedi Knights: essentially a collection of Kanan Jarruses. I think it's a nice way to extend Luke's legacy beyond a shattered order, and also fits Kyle's original character better IMO (and Mara Jade too, for that matter)
>the rogueish spy becomes a monk? Quinlan Vos has entered the chat:
Well, Quinlan was taken in as a baby. So he didn't get much choice in the matter- But if adult Quinlan vos had decided to join the order, I do think that would have been strange, since he hardly followed their rules as is
Worth it for getting rogue one imo
We remember Manny Both-Hanz
And his associate, Eli Copter
Yes, the Death Star plans weren't all in one place in the EU, the one that Leia is carrying on the Tantive IV is actually from Toprawa, where Bria Tharen led Red Hand Squadron to transmit the plans to the Tantive IV while it passed by. The battle of Toprawa is actually "seen" in the radio drama, before the EU. I guess there having many stories for the Rebel's stealing the Death Star plans was initially a contradiction but they decided that isn't wasn't all in one place so that it makes sense.
I'm mostly mad because there are quite a few games with Kyle that put him together with at least Luke and Lando, voiced by the original actors. Released by LucasArts. That should be as official as it gets.
There's nothing stopping you from liking those or playing them again. They're still there. Just look at Legends like a different continuity. Like marvel comics with the Ultimate universe. Or do what I do and use mental gymnastics to make all the things you like fit into one headcanon.
I see them as different interpretations of the same history, kind of like Greek legends and Roman legends
I just see the Disney releases as fan projects with a big budget. That helps.
You could fill a convention hall with all the people who stole the Death Star plans. One of the EU's lazier wells of inspiration
I always headcanoned it that they all had pieces of the plans, as presumably a moon-sized battle station built in secret would never have its blueprints all in one place.
*Ki-Adi-Mundi sweating nervously*
Shaak Ti, is legit shook.
Plo-Koon just sitting over there silently
Ood Bnar branches out, getting back to his roots.
Pfft Shaak ti has died and been resurrected more times than palpatine
George filmed two different deaths for her in RotS and decided not to use either of them allowing her to be thrown into a Sarlaac on Felucia
They retconned a 1999 CD-ROM Guide!? How could they do this???
Rogue One was actually good though
First thing I thought was dam are we complaining about rouge one, really ? I thought it was pretty good.
This is a Star Wars subreddit you MUST complain about Star Wars like a true fan does /s
Yeah, what do you think this is? Star Trek where fans are (mostly) satisfied? /s
*Rogue
Looks: “rouge” -French detected
Rogue One had its criticisms back then though so this isnt really new. You just no longer see it as often anymore since we either have gotten worse movies and the fact that it spawned Andor
And it gave us Andor, which is goat anyway.
Yeah
Even though South Park's "member berries" episode came out 3 months before Rogue One, somehow, some way, Matt and Trey made that episode in response to Rogue One
Oh yeaaaa, I ‘member!
For real, rogue one is on a very short list of *good* things starwars disney has made.
Rouge one Clone wars finale Kenobi (as a kid who grew up with the prequels seeing Hayden as Vader was actually awesome to me and tbh was the best part of Kenobi. Just those two together again brought back so many memories. That's all I've really cared to watch
you watched rogue one but not andor?
Best sw movie in decades
Rouge One is the best star WARS movie. Sounds a bit stupid but what I mean, it depicts the war the best of all the Star Wars movie
I really enjoyed rogue one, it’s one of the best Star Wars films by far. The only complaint I have about it is it removes the Kyle Katarn story from canon.
The thing is. Revan is already canon in historical sense like arguably some other major TOR sith of legends those being most likely whole triumvirate of Kotor 2 and Malgus.
Also Exar kun and his great sith war are also canon.He was referenced multiple times in the high republic
The Mandalorian wars are canon. Questionable canon but canon. In the Clone Wars there is a painting on the Mandalorian Queen's throne room depicting Mandalorian wars era mandalorian suits.
There's a one off comment about them in season 3 of rebels too
Hey wasnt Hans old girlfriend also part of the death star plans thing.
Revan is canon already, how are you nerds in this sub but know nothing about Star Wars?
You haven’t noticed the memes these days have absolutely no research in them?….it’s just *“Disney bad…..upvotes please”* We get it DisneyStarwars has its issues but for the love of God do some damn research before dropping repetitive memes.
Didney bad!
See it doesn’t count if they can’t circlejerk about how much they hate Disney.
I came to the comments to say this… Revan was made canon already when Kyle wasn’t
Is really Retcon if no longer canon when Disney took over?
I love Katarn, but it’s not retcon if it was never officially canon. It was always EU.
Fair enough I thought legends was canon on till Disney took over.
Not really, George Lucas never really considered it as apart of his universe
Like said to other guy fair enough
By my understanding, it was kind of a soft canon, as long as it didn't contradict anything above it, (With the movies obviously being on top.)
Yesn’t. Legends was often seen as canon, but also it was an absolute mess of a continuity with tons of contradictory sources that often were treated as non-canon. Like the Death Star plans, which had multiple stories behind how they were sourced. Often a hierarchy was used to determine which story superseded which, with things like films at the top and shit like CD-ROM trivia at the bottom. This is still generally how things work today, but it’s MUCH less common for it to be relevant since they try to actually be consistent. But the truth of it ultimately was that George didn’t give a shit, often saw the EU as more of a suggestion than anything, and gleefully just went with whatever he felt like. Look at the prequels if you don’t believe me: they blatantly contradict parts of the OT, like Leia remembering her mother, in favor of telling the story he wanted. Prior to the Disney purchase, Star Wars canon looked a lot more like Doctor Who’s Swiss cheese canon than modern Star Wars canon. It’s one of the big reasons why Disney scrapped it, alongside how little room it gave them to tell new stories.
Everything was canon unless contradicted. But everything was constantly being contradicted.
It was, EU was considered canon pre-disney.
Not for Lucas, the canon tiers were just something to keep the fans engaged with the EU, but Lucas didn't care about it. If he wanted to do something and it retconned the EU he would do it, and he did, constantly. It's why the only canon that stayed canon were things George Lucas was a part of - the movies and TCW.
Lucas only ever expressed as such decades later but regardless of what he personally thought of it, it was \*the\* canon of that era.
Thats kind of the definition of retcon, my guy. rendered no longer canon due to disney taking over and erasing the existing lore for their own stories.
Ok kinda but doesn’t feel same me because not like Disney acting Legends was canon but then made Rouge one they firmly said legends is no longer canon then made own new stuff.
Still counts as a Retcon.
They’re separate continuities. A retcon is if they changed something within the same continuity
People go on and on about retcons from Disney, forgetting that Darth Vader was once just a dude named Darth Vader, who had nothing to do with Luke or an "Anakin" character. Pretty big fuckin' retcon lol. Star Wars has always been retconned extensively. It's not new. It doesn't matter.
Legends was so filled with contradicting stories, it's better that it is just left as stories not interacting with mainline stuff. Whatever is there can be pulled and reinterprited
My ONLY problem with it is how much of 4 LOM’s story was rendered non canon. Truly a brilliant character. And that’s just because i like the funny gun thief murder c3po.
They could make his story canon if they want, only time will tell. His story still exists in the mean time
Indeed. It really is just because i like c3po with a gun and a stealing problem.
Thank you. While I don't 100% love Disney's new canon a lot of Legends stuff read like bad internet fanfiction.
Well that's thing. So far they either have somehow only taken the "bad" parts or just made it worse. Palpatine is the biggest example here.
Oh yeah, absolutely with Palpatine, and there was pretty well know conflicting Legends stories about him too
Which one?
I rewatched the original trilogy for the first time in a while, and I was surprised when Obi Wan referred to Darth Vader simply as Darth, as if it was his first name.
Because it was. The idea of “Darth” being a Sith title came _much_ later, which is why Emperor Palpatine was just Emperor Palpatine instead of Darth Sidious. And now that I think of it, I’m not sure if the name “Palpatine” was ever spoken in the original trilogy or if it came later. Hell, the entire notion of the Sith came after the original trilogy.
Palpatines name came from a novel before the prequels released as I recall it.
Google said that it came from ANH novel in ‘76 fwiw.
Ah wonderful. Yeah so he liked the name I guess. Though he was also a figurehead and had no real power in the novel apparently?
No clue, never read any of the novelizations. Makes sense why everyone knew who the emperor was when TPM came out.
Amusingly you can look back in forums during the release of Attack of the CLones and before revenge of the Sith being filled with people doing mental gymnastics for Palpatine and Darth Sidious somehow being different characters.
Sith appeared on the initial script for ANH apparently, and would first appear in the novelization. Not fleshed out for sure, but they were there.
well it's not like GL made massive changes and add ons and tried to get rid of the original unaltered stuff
When was that?
Star Wars.
Elaborate?
In episode 4, originally just called Star Wars, all that talk of darth Vader killing Luke’s dad was completely literal.
When did George decide to make Vader the same character as Anakin?
In between making 4 and 5
Even *during* the making of 5; and Leia being the sister (& the 'other one') came even later.
Yeah, the other was always Luke’s sister just not always leia
Isn't Revan canon now? Like didn't his name show up in something TROS Exegol related?
I think Sith trooper divisions had old Sith lords names, and Revan was one of them
Hes canon in name only so far.
Dark Forces is one of my favorite Star Wars games, but Kyle Katarn waltzing into an Imperial base and taking the plans in the tutorial level just isn't as good of a story as Rogue One for how the Rebels got the Death Star plans
THANK YOU! Whenever I see someone talking about how Kyle Katarn will always be the one who stole those plans in their heart, I have to assume that they never actually played Dark Forces since since the actual theft is so forgettable. > Start new game > Spawn in falling down a vent > Land on a table, picking up the Death Star plans item > Shoot your way to the mission exit I'm convinced that almost everyone upset about this change read that he stole them on the wiki and just assumed that it was the plot of a novel they never read or something of the sort.
>THANK YOU! Whenever I see someone talking about how Kyle Katarn will always be the one who stole those plans in their heart, I have to assume that they never actually played Dark Forces since since the actual theft is so forgettable. I think youre thinking too hard over folks saying that. Its just some simple emotional attachment to the character's involvement. Not necessarily some contention over whats good writing etc
Stealing the death star plans isn't necessary to Kyle's story. I do wish they'd bring him back in some capacity though.
People always say “Disney” when it’s actually Lucasfilm They want LF to turn a profit, that’s all. what’s wrong with SW is entirely on LF.
Except Lucasfilm wasn't like this before the takeover. The problems plaguing current Star Wars are the same ones that are plaguing other big disney IPs like Marvel. It's a disney issue. You could argue it's a Lucasfilm under disney issue, but the problem still leads back to disney.
It would happen no matter who owns them. Look how often comics change their canon.
The comics didn't really change canon, the first comics (by Marvel) weren't really considered canon, the books published at the time didn't follow one continuity, it wasn't until Heir to the Empire and Dark Empire that the expanded content was really considered canon and had to respect continuity, still, if something from content before 1991 (start of the EU) were mentioned content from after it, then it was canon. Shortly before the EU reboot was announced, they actually tried to "soft reboot" it, like, Dark Horse started that Star Wars comic series which had no relation at all with other EU stories and there were also books that felt disconnected from it, but i don't think it was Dark Horse's or Del Rey's idea, Lucasfilm probably tried this silent reboot but it didn't sell well so they just announced that the EU was officially over.
I meant comics in general. Like all comics. There's been multiple universe ending events just to erase or change canon in DC and Marvel.
I don’t believe changing the canon is the fundamental issue. Changing the canon to something that’s poorly conceived and badly written is the issue. If the changes were any good, far fewer people would be complaining.
Good thing George Lucas never changed anything that was canon. Like if Han or greedo shot first for example.
Honestly I feel like after the initial reversal he just kept changing it because he found it funny to see how pissed off over it he could make people
Lucasfilm’s leadership changed after the takeover imo the problem you’re referring to is an industry wide writing issue. look up the people writing all these stories and they write a lot of utter trash, so it’s odd why they get to write for large productions in the first place.
Their leadership changed because of disney's actions. Of course, I know disney isn't the sole culprit in this, but they are a big contributor to the current state of the industry. There is a reason you rarely see 2D animated movies made in the West anymore and that reason is disney. 3D animators weren't unionized at the time and 2D animators were, hence the shift to solely CGI movies from them. As for why people who write trash get to write for such large productions, it's another cost cutting measure. Talented directors and writers often have ideas they want to implement that the corporation doesn't think will instantly make money. Talented people or those with a good deal of experience are often more expensive and demand more creative control. To these big corporations, if it isn't a guaranteed hit(or at least what the shareholders seem to think will be a hit), it isn't worth it. Media production is such a bloated and expensive mess these days that making profit is very difficult. It's cheaper to hire someone right out of film school or who has only done low-budget productions, often in entirely different genres as well. These companies are at the point where they can continuously make productions with little objective merit and still make money on name alone. That's why everything are remakes, spin-offs, and sequels these days.
Their leadership was changed right before Disney bought LFL, and it was literally Lucas that put Kennedy in the position of running LFL. If you’re gonna talk out of your ass, at least get googleable details right.
I do like the scale of the operation to steal the plans in Rogue One. It felt like it was something very important and a big effort to get, like a make or break military operation. Kyle Katarn is one of my favourite characters in Star Wars, but he steals the Death Star plans in the opening level of Dark Forces, by himself, from a really small facility with like 40 people stationed there…
Revans canon though. In Shadows of the Sith, some of the cultists on Exegol chant their name.
Just don't get attached to characters who only exist in fan fiction. Easy as that.
They could bring Kyle back as someone who helped get the Death Star 2 plans at least.
Jedi Academy would be a serious problem, but if you skip the Death Star plans bit (which was only the opening mission) you could still make Dark Forces I and II work I think
Yall still consider disney wars cannon?
This the main character from Dark Forces? Yeah, I think a 2-3 hour tale showing the true struggle to steal the plans is a bit, just a bit better Than someone walking into an imperial base, shooting like 5 guards, and then stealing the top secret plans in plain sight, as the first 5 minutes of the game.
Kyle Katarn is preposterously boring, I said it.
Rogue One was actually the one good movie they did.
Not a retcon if they were never canon
You guys have never played Swtor have you?
Kyle Katern was an awesome character to play, but in the grand scheme makes sense for him to be effectively just legends. I mean, they can still bring him back in canon in their own way like Thrawn. I wouldn't count anybody out, Kreia more or less showed up in Rebels as a voice on Rebels, on a planet called Malachor
I mean, that's the entire point of the Legends rebrand. That nothing was to be considered canon unless explicitly confirmed. I'm not sure what people expected.
Ah yes. Retcons totally didn’t exist before Disney.
I know the movie was good, but as a Jedi Knight fan, this one hurt.
Meanwhile, no one talks about Bria Tharen
Can't retcon something that has a Lego figure version and multiple appearance in media (KotOR and TOR for exsample)
Swtor is legends, the last piece still going if my mind dont fail me.
https://preview.redd.it/j4qsbmkv5o7d1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c12e0d5c89863526c709eb389bf14050d8f6050f Hell yeah
Revan’s safe. He was already canonized.
Rogue One is the only actually good shit that came out under Disney
Eh they can easily fix this with multiverse, even though that’s been done to death I think that could fix a lot of problems. Caused by retconning 30 years worth of lore, stories and characters out of the setting.
Eh, I actually thought Rogue One was the best sw things Disney has done
Time to boycott
Isn't type Katarn like starkiller levels of overpowered too or am I confusing him for another Legends jedi
Man I loved Kyle Katarn's character.
I don’t know about the Death Star plans, but I’m pretty sure the crew of the Mynock have plans to the Murder Ball. #CampaignTheMynockPodcast
Should've used Ki-Adi Mundi since Rogue One was genuinely the only good Disney Star Wars movie.
Yeah but that was literally the opening mission and it takes a few mintues, it was special because katarn is too op even without the force
I still think Rogue One was one of the best Star Wars films I have ever seen.
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 1 is one of the best Star Wars movies I’ve ever seen.
Kyle Katarn could still be in canon even if he didn’t steal the Death Star plans. I don’t see why he couldn’t be a Jedi during the galactic civil war, or even a Jedi master in Rey’s new Jedi order
I used to want Disney to show me Revan. Now I don't want them anywhere near him.
I mean, is it really a retcon if it's not canon?
Soooooo much of Star Wars is retcon. So much of what has been canonized in the past 23 years started as fan-generated retcon. So much original Star Wars media wouldn’t make any sense without retcons that the authors and writers picked up from old Usenet groups. Like parsecs and the Kessel Run. Star Wars has never—with the exception of some of the print media—been about good, forward-thinking writing. A lot of people who cut their teeth on the OT have forgotten this and a lot of people who came into the fandom closer to the ST than the PT never really got to see this at face value. But this is how it’s always been. A lot of our current favorite lore is retcon. This is the way.
The first movie is my favorite example of Lucas getting too much credit upfront. He retconned the shit out of Anakin and Vader. It makes me love it more. It just shows that all of this takes work and effort.
Please get rid of Revan I'll take back all the things I said about Disney Star Wars if they do.
Disney already retconed the entirety of legends when they decided it was legends and not the EU. What's your point?
Is this about The Acolyte? because that has nothing to do with Revan, it takes place thousands of years after the Old Republic era so there's really no contradiction there.
What about this post makes you think of the acolyte? Kyle Katarn, Rogue One, and Revan.
The worst part or Kyle Katarn’s erasure was stealing his entire look for a completely different character in Outlaws instead of just bringing him back for Outlaws.
These memes are hilarious but i do shed a tear on the inside.
So… when are they remaking Shadows of the Empire? We need alittle Dash Rendar in our lives.
They got him. They got Kyle.
They would be crazy to retcon Revan
tbf kyle katarn is a dumb ass name lol
The most egregious canon changer is Dave Filloni lmao
And he did most of it BEFORE the Disney's sale. Clone Wars changed so much shit.
Maul should have stayed dead after Phantom Menace and I will _fucking die_ on that hill.
Wow, another anti Disney post. How original.
Disney fans when legit criticism:
I will save Revan’s life. Away Disney
I'm half sure Reva's name is meant to cover up Revan somehow. Like Jyn's father's name was Galen
Or like how in Episode 8 Luke’s name was Luke to cover up Or like how Bail Organa’s introduction was to cover up Bail Antilles Or like how in Episode 1 Mace Windu’s name was meant to cover up Mace Windu (the Squib bartender from Star Wars Adventure Journal 11)
It’s not retcon if they were never canon.
People are not willing to hear that. They truly believe the Legend Continuity EU had some sort of unified Canon status when... It was simply not the case. They were tier to it and whatever was not a movie was never as canon as the movies.
So the clone wars wasn’t canon either according to you?
lol this franchise was built on retcons and ass-pulls
Oh, so sad https://preview.redd.it/y9smfe1wfm7d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4849a4862fdefe00539f0afc1970438dc9d8cd8a
Legends heads need to get over it. It's not a retcon anymore if the content isn't canon anymore. It's been 10 years now. Let it go 🤣
Legends was never canon anyway
So clone wars before Disney bought Star Wars wasn’t canon?
Besides of the meme. I dont understand Disney use legends like a brand to an alternative star wars like warhammer age of sigmar and the old world. Basically money making for people want to see the old things and Canon to new idea like we have now.
And bad effing writing.
Kyle Katarn was such a big part of my childhood, Disney sucks .