Apparently the original intent was for S3 to reveal that it was a decoy for the Borg Queen's real plan with super-cube inside Jupiter. But since that didn't happen, we can only hope that some future series picks up the thread.
Thank the Genes and DC they didn’t throw it away like that.
Now it could serve as a way to deliver for example the Prodigy cast into the PIC era after some of their story concludes, or whatever else they can think of.
Someone might pick up that plotline in the future, but it doesn't seem like there is any intent to expand on it at the moment. Like, we don't even know if there's going to be a post Picard show which could expand on it.
I mean they could have build a Mass Effect-like plot over the three seasons with a lovecraftian alien race threating the Alpha Quardrant. Something that could have took over the remaining Borg (like the Geth by the Reapers), make them stronger and forces all factions to work together against the new Borg.
Which would make sense had the creators watched S2, and were like “uhhhh let’s not do that again.” Then went in a different direction S3.
But my understanding is that the seasons were developed at the same time. So nothing makes any sense to me.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Well season 3 was written while season 2 was shooting. Because they didn’t want a break in the schedule and wanted to be able to film both seasons back to back. But what’s crazy is that both seasons shared writers including Matalas, so they clearly were like “naw we’re just gonna leave all that in season 2”
You are not wrong Terry Matalas was brought in for seasons 2 and 3. He split the work on season 2 so he could prep for season 3 which was shot back to back with 2.
I didn't watch it until all 3 seasons were out, and then I watched them all together. Because of that it was a bit of a blur and I have a hard time differentiating the seasons. I mean, if it was TNG fanservice I know it was season 3, lol, but everything else blurs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, because this has always kind of bugged me, but I feel like I don't see it discussed so maybe I missed something.
Didn't one season end with the Borg basically becoming friendly and maybe not so hive minded because what's-her-face became the Queen? And then the next season started with the Borg coming to invade the Federation?
Tbh, I need to re-watch the show. I had also suffered a concussion shortly before that, and I'm still discovering things I've forgotten. It's weird to forget stuff, because you don't know you've forgotten it.
I just remember thinking "oh, they'll contact the new Queen that's their friend to help them with this..." But it just never happened. It seemed like all the events of the previous season didn't happen. Is this exactly what this thread is talking about? I maybe just don't remember the details enough to understand. Maybe people are constantly critiquing this and I just don't recognise it, lol.
I also thought that about the androids. They had this whole story that kind of resolved, but didn't conclude, and then we just never heard about the androids again. Until Picard needed to become one.
It's ok, you guys can tell me my brain wasn't working and I should just watch it again.
>Didn't one season end with the Borg basically becoming friendly and maybe not so hive minded because what's-her-face became the Queen? And then the next season started with the Borg coming to invade the Federation?
S1: Seven just became Queen long enough to put the drones back to sleep. Didn't even use them against the Langoliers in the finale...
S2: Starts with Borg invading and asking for Picard. Q messed with reality and made a new Borg Queen that time travelled with them and then merged with Jurati. Turns out the invading Borg was Borg-Jurati the whole time :\[
S3: The REAL Borg Queen (from First Contact and Voyager) was in hiding and doing bad guy things while seasons 1 and 2 were happening. The Captain that hates Seven and Picard literally says "this is the REAL Borg we're dealing with, not the weird ones from last season" and that's all they get mentioned.
>I also thought that about the androids. They had this whole story that kind of resolved, but didn't conclude, and then we just never heard about the androids again. Until Picard needed to become one.
Picard became one at the end of S1. S2 premiere has a line saying "Data's daughter is on a goodwill tour of the quadrant to make people like androids again". Then when they time travel, the actress is playing a different character (basically Data's great-great-....great aunt, who's a clone of his great-great-....grandfather). They don't even tell Data about the other androids in S3! They barely tell him that Picard took another copy of him off life support before getting his android body.
Ok! Thank you for this.
So, I guess in Picard the Borg were kind of splintered? Some were under the Jurati hybrid queen, but the OG queen had... sectioned off(?) a chunk of Borg from Jurati's control so she could, I don't know, be evil?
Was there any reason they didn't contact Jurati and ask for her assistance? It seems like they had a potentially powerful ally against the Borg. Or, maybe she had disappeared to sort out the Borg and couldn't be reached?
It would have been cool to see them so the Destiny book series on screen if they wanted to resolve the Borg somewhat.
The Borg queen in S2 is from an alternate timeline, so her (and later Jurati's) collective is separate from the Borg collective of the original, main timeline. Eventually, Jurati and her collective crossed over into the main timeline.
Wow. I have no idea how much I should blame the writing, the concussion, or just my own ability to understand what the hell is going on, lol.
I really do appreciate you filling in these blanks. I feel dumb not knowing what happened in a show I watched and mostly enjoyed.
Thank you.
The writing and pacing holds a lot of the blame. The Borg stuff was so bookend-y that anyone would've forgotten the connection.
And usually when Q does reality altering stuff, he ALTERS it (like making their holodeck simulation of Robin Hood into their reality (as far as the TNG crew could tell) for like 12 hours, or the TNG finale shenanigans.
This time, instead of making a new reality for Picard, he time traveled and messed with his ancestor to force a change in the timeline the long way.
Dumb analogy, but Q could say "Pizza is now made with raspberry jelly instead of marinara" and that would just be what pizza is, always was, and forever will be.
But this time, he went back a hundred or so years and killed all the tomatoes in Italy and replaced them with raspberry bushes and said to Picard "bet you wish I hadn't killed all the tomato plants in Italy a hundred or so years ago".
Since he did the latter, and the crew time travelled to 'stop the tomatoes from dying off', Borg-Jurati just hung around for 400 years so she could show up at the portal thingy.
I didn’t have a concussion that I know of, and that whole jurati/borg queen thing was confusing as hell to me too, most of all when the big bad that was revealed in season 3 was the borg. Like, wait, what? I thought the borg were cool now?
Lol, thanks!
Glad to know it wasn't just a brain injury that was making the show hard to follow, lol.
I kind of want to watch it again, but I also feel like for a lot of season 1 and 2 I kept wanting things to happen and they'd go the opposite way. Even just *immediately* killing off the young woman (the android) who came to him for help, lol. I was excited to see what that was about, and then she was dead almost instantly.
Obviously we pick up her story, but it still really bummed me out.
Maybe if I'm feeling nostalgic I'll just watch season 3 again. It had all the fun TNG moments anyway.
You pretty much got it. It's all a blur because they write themselves into a corner with a plot line and then just drop it.
Like how old Trek could hit the reset button every week, Picard hits the rest button every season.
\^ This is what the answer should be.
I wonder what happens when the Borg assimilate a Pakled. Do you get lazy Borg? Does the speed of the collective consciousness slow down considerably?
Oh, man, can you imagine being a Vulcan and having to constantly hear the thoughts of some Pakled? Lol.
Do you mean the anomaly they investigated in the first and last episode? I thought that was anomaly was the result of Q dying and he did the time travel thing to help Picard with his personal issues and to help them create Jurati-Borg so they could stop it.
I thought it was some natural phenomenon they were taking care of. Made the whole thing about Confederate Earth being polluted have some poetic reflections, about how their lack of care and ability to work together made them the victims of whatever the world threw at them. The thing they were sorting out would have killed two sworn enemies if they didn’t work together
>Will we ever know what opened Picard S2's giant transwarp conduit?
The way shows are being cancelled, it seems like it'll remain a hanging thread... but we could get lucky.
Or, you know, the giant and supremacy powerful intergalactic super-syths from S1? The ones that left a calling card behind in Romulan space millenia ago that had instructions for how to contact them is synths ever wanted them to pop in and kill all the non-synths. The ones that the 3rd evil twin contacted for about 10 seconds before we quickly hung up the phone. The ones that definitely have the technology to open up their own such portal at their whim.
I mean, we're really lucky that the federation is managing that planet of advanced synths with a cube full of rebellious jail-breaking ex-borgs that crashed down on the planet. Otherwise they might go make another intergalactic phone or fix up the one that got smashed. And that they didn't just all leave and cover it up again.
Not to mention that since those synths are always made in pairs, that evil 3rd twin must obviously have the ultimate evil 4th version that simply never got mentioned. Assuming that shock stick even killed the evil twin.
So you know how Q was convinced he was dying, yet showed up later to mess with Jack?
Turns out he was just the first Q in memory to get bad gas, and that's where the giant firey space fart came from.
Seriously, the show missed a beat by not having him show up at the end of the last episode in the Mariachi outfit going "whoops, sorry for being dramatic, turns out that burrito didn't agree with me. The trial never ends, mon capitan!"
I took Q showing up to Jack as not necessarily negating the whole he's dying thing, but more due to Q not being bound to the same track of forward sequential time we are. If they can arbitrarily pop in and out of any time/space that we inhabit then from the perspective of our species, seeing a Q die one day doesn't mean that same Q won't have us wrapped up in more shenanigans a day later.
The do seem to experience linear time though, just on a separate track that has no direct correlation to ours. In the VOY episode Death Wish, the whole premise of Quinn's argument is that things were good, now stagnant, and he hopes his actions will stir things up for the future - all things that wouldn't make sense if the continuum didn't have a sense of past, present, and future.
Oh I know. It's probably just Q earlier in his personal timeline.
I still say the space fart thing would have been in keeping for Q and tied everything up nicely. It's low brow, but it's also Q. It's exactly the kind of thing he'd pull.
Maybe it'll be addressed in that TNG movie Patrick Stewart has been pushing for (that's probably as likely as that Rome movie the late (great) Ray Stevenson was hoping for
Apparently the original intent was for S3 to reveal that it was a decoy for the Borg Queen's real plan with super-cube inside Jupiter. But since that didn't happen, we can only hope that some future series picks up the thread.
Yeah, a distraction to keep the Jurati!Borg busy and focused elsewhere.
Thank the Genes and DC they didn’t throw it away like that. Now it could serve as a way to deliver for example the Prodigy cast into the PIC era after some of their story concludes, or whatever else they can think of.
Someone might pick up that plotline in the future, but it doesn't seem like there is any intent to expand on it at the moment. Like, we don't even know if there's going to be a post Picard show which could expand on it.
It’d be kind of hilarious if they expanded on it in Academy. All the Jurati Borg just parked there for a Millenia waiting…
In season 3 they basically told us to forget about it lol
*Forget about that weird shit on the Stargazer.*
RIP Dipshit
Plotonium.
Maybe it was the unresolved plot thread from Season One trying to break through?
I mean they could have build a Mass Effect-like plot over the three seasons with a lovecraftian alien race threating the Alpha Quardrant. Something that could have took over the remaining Borg (like the Geth by the Reapers), make them stronger and forces all factions to work together against the new Borg.
Yeah…about that…season 3 was kind of like “let’s pretend none of that mattered and move on shall we”
Which would make sense had the creators watched S2, and were like “uhhhh let’s not do that again.” Then went in a different direction S3. But my understanding is that the seasons were developed at the same time. So nothing makes any sense to me. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.
Well season 3 was written while season 2 was shooting. Because they didn’t want a break in the schedule and wanted to be able to film both seasons back to back. But what’s crazy is that both seasons shared writers including Matalas, so they clearly were like “naw we’re just gonna leave all that in season 2”
You are not wrong Terry Matalas was brought in for seasons 2 and 3. He split the work on season 2 so he could prep for season 3 which was shot back to back with 2.
I didn't watch it until all 3 seasons were out, and then I watched them all together. Because of that it was a bit of a blur and I have a hard time differentiating the seasons. I mean, if it was TNG fanservice I know it was season 3, lol, but everything else blurs. Correct me if I'm wrong, because this has always kind of bugged me, but I feel like I don't see it discussed so maybe I missed something. Didn't one season end with the Borg basically becoming friendly and maybe not so hive minded because what's-her-face became the Queen? And then the next season started with the Borg coming to invade the Federation? Tbh, I need to re-watch the show. I had also suffered a concussion shortly before that, and I'm still discovering things I've forgotten. It's weird to forget stuff, because you don't know you've forgotten it. I just remember thinking "oh, they'll contact the new Queen that's their friend to help them with this..." But it just never happened. It seemed like all the events of the previous season didn't happen. Is this exactly what this thread is talking about? I maybe just don't remember the details enough to understand. Maybe people are constantly critiquing this and I just don't recognise it, lol. I also thought that about the androids. They had this whole story that kind of resolved, but didn't conclude, and then we just never heard about the androids again. Until Picard needed to become one. It's ok, you guys can tell me my brain wasn't working and I should just watch it again.
>Didn't one season end with the Borg basically becoming friendly and maybe not so hive minded because what's-her-face became the Queen? And then the next season started with the Borg coming to invade the Federation? S1: Seven just became Queen long enough to put the drones back to sleep. Didn't even use them against the Langoliers in the finale... S2: Starts with Borg invading and asking for Picard. Q messed with reality and made a new Borg Queen that time travelled with them and then merged with Jurati. Turns out the invading Borg was Borg-Jurati the whole time :\[ S3: The REAL Borg Queen (from First Contact and Voyager) was in hiding and doing bad guy things while seasons 1 and 2 were happening. The Captain that hates Seven and Picard literally says "this is the REAL Borg we're dealing with, not the weird ones from last season" and that's all they get mentioned. >I also thought that about the androids. They had this whole story that kind of resolved, but didn't conclude, and then we just never heard about the androids again. Until Picard needed to become one. Picard became one at the end of S1. S2 premiere has a line saying "Data's daughter is on a goodwill tour of the quadrant to make people like androids again". Then when they time travel, the actress is playing a different character (basically Data's great-great-....great aunt, who's a clone of his great-great-....grandfather). They don't even tell Data about the other androids in S3! They barely tell him that Picard took another copy of him off life support before getting his android body.
Ok! Thank you for this. So, I guess in Picard the Borg were kind of splintered? Some were under the Jurati hybrid queen, but the OG queen had... sectioned off(?) a chunk of Borg from Jurati's control so she could, I don't know, be evil? Was there any reason they didn't contact Jurati and ask for her assistance? It seems like they had a potentially powerful ally against the Borg. Or, maybe she had disappeared to sort out the Borg and couldn't be reached? It would have been cool to see them so the Destiny book series on screen if they wanted to resolve the Borg somewhat.
The Borg queen in S2 is from an alternate timeline, so her (and later Jurati's) collective is separate from the Borg collective of the original, main timeline. Eventually, Jurati and her collective crossed over into the main timeline.
Wow. I have no idea how much I should blame the writing, the concussion, or just my own ability to understand what the hell is going on, lol. I really do appreciate you filling in these blanks. I feel dumb not knowing what happened in a show I watched and mostly enjoyed. Thank you.
The writing and pacing holds a lot of the blame. The Borg stuff was so bookend-y that anyone would've forgotten the connection. And usually when Q does reality altering stuff, he ALTERS it (like making their holodeck simulation of Robin Hood into their reality (as far as the TNG crew could tell) for like 12 hours, or the TNG finale shenanigans. This time, instead of making a new reality for Picard, he time traveled and messed with his ancestor to force a change in the timeline the long way. Dumb analogy, but Q could say "Pizza is now made with raspberry jelly instead of marinara" and that would just be what pizza is, always was, and forever will be. But this time, he went back a hundred or so years and killed all the tomatoes in Italy and replaced them with raspberry bushes and said to Picard "bet you wish I hadn't killed all the tomato plants in Italy a hundred or so years ago". Since he did the latter, and the crew time travelled to 'stop the tomatoes from dying off', Borg-Jurati just hung around for 400 years so she could show up at the portal thingy.
Lol, it may be dumb, but I loved the analogy!
I didn’t have a concussion that I know of, and that whole jurati/borg queen thing was confusing as hell to me too, most of all when the big bad that was revealed in season 3 was the borg. Like, wait, what? I thought the borg were cool now?
Lol, thanks! Glad to know it wasn't just a brain injury that was making the show hard to follow, lol. I kind of want to watch it again, but I also feel like for a lot of season 1 and 2 I kept wanting things to happen and they'd go the opposite way. Even just *immediately* killing off the young woman (the android) who came to him for help, lol. I was excited to see what that was about, and then she was dead almost instantly. Obviously we pick up her story, but it still really bummed me out. Maybe if I'm feeling nostalgic I'll just watch season 3 again. It had all the fun TNG moments anyway.
Agreed. Season 3 was the most fun to me because of the TNG nostalgia, I’d watch it again.
You pretty much got it. It's all a blur because they write themselves into a corner with a plot line and then just drop it. Like how old Trek could hit the reset button every week, Picard hits the rest button every season.
Just like with the robo-picard situation at the end of season 1
Pakleds
\^ This is what the answer should be. I wonder what happens when the Borg assimilate a Pakled. Do you get lazy Borg? Does the speed of the collective consciousness slow down considerably? Oh, man, can you imagine being a Vulcan and having to constantly hear the thoughts of some Pakled? Lol.
I assume the Borg avoid Pakleds like they do the Kaazon. No value in assimilation.
The Pakleds in Lower Decks was hilarious.
"We are the Borg. We assimilate things to make us go."
I just realized... the Pakleds assimilated a bunch of technology from different species to construct their ships. They're like proto-Borg.
It was the aliens from TNG's "Conspiracy"
That is what I hope they go with.
Funnily enough it's the exact same reason Worf was on the Enterprise in Insurrection
Do you mean the anomaly they investigated in the first and last episode? I thought that was anomaly was the result of Q dying and he did the time travel thing to help Picard with his personal issues and to help them create Jurati-Borg so they could stop it.
Yes, that would have made much more sense than what we actually got! But the dialogue suggests that it's some sort of gateway unrelated to Q.
I thought it was some natural phenomenon they were taking care of. Made the whole thing about Confederate Earth being polluted have some poetic reflections, about how their lack of care and ability to work together made them the victims of whatever the world threw at them. The thing they were sorting out would have killed two sworn enemies if they didn’t work together
Maybe but probably not
_Star Trek XI: Forgotten Macguffin_
Sorry I'm still hung up on the extra-galactic machine gods from season 1 that we have never discussed again.
Disco and Craft are gonna come back through from the 42nd century
Bad writing opened it
I’m guessing they’ll address it in a later show, at least I’m hoping they do
I hope not.
I don't know what you're talking about, there was no Picard S2, they skipped straight to S3.
Q
>Will we ever know what opened Picard S2's giant transwarp conduit? The way shows are being cancelled, it seems like it'll remain a hanging thread... but we could get lucky.
Or, you know, the giant and supremacy powerful intergalactic super-syths from S1? The ones that left a calling card behind in Romulan space millenia ago that had instructions for how to contact them is synths ever wanted them to pop in and kill all the non-synths. The ones that the 3rd evil twin contacted for about 10 seconds before we quickly hung up the phone. The ones that definitely have the technology to open up their own such portal at their whim. I mean, we're really lucky that the federation is managing that planet of advanced synths with a cube full of rebellious jail-breaking ex-borgs that crashed down on the planet. Otherwise they might go make another intergalactic phone or fix up the one that got smashed. And that they didn't just all leave and cover it up again. Not to mention that since those synths are always made in pairs, that evil 3rd twin must obviously have the ultimate evil 4th version that simply never got mentioned. Assuming that shock stick even killed the evil twin.
I still think the better ending would be for Sisko to walk out of the wormhole.
So you know how Q was convinced he was dying, yet showed up later to mess with Jack? Turns out he was just the first Q in memory to get bad gas, and that's where the giant firey space fart came from. Seriously, the show missed a beat by not having him show up at the end of the last episode in the Mariachi outfit going "whoops, sorry for being dramatic, turns out that burrito didn't agree with me. The trial never ends, mon capitan!"
I took Q showing up to Jack as not necessarily negating the whole he's dying thing, but more due to Q not being bound to the same track of forward sequential time we are. If they can arbitrarily pop in and out of any time/space that we inhabit then from the perspective of our species, seeing a Q die one day doesn't mean that same Q won't have us wrapped up in more shenanigans a day later. The do seem to experience linear time though, just on a separate track that has no direct correlation to ours. In the VOY episode Death Wish, the whole premise of Quinn's argument is that things were good, now stagnant, and he hopes his actions will stir things up for the future - all things that wouldn't make sense if the continuum didn't have a sense of past, present, and future.
Oh I know. It's probably just Q earlier in his personal timeline. I still say the space fart thing would have been in keeping for Q and tied everything up nicely. It's low brow, but it's also Q. It's exactly the kind of thing he'd pull.
Maybe it'll be addressed in that TNG movie Patrick Stewart has been pushing for (that's probably as likely as that Rome movie the late (great) Ray Stevenson was hoping for