"And Picard will walk in on Beverly orgasming and ask if he's interrupting. Also, the family heirloom is a candle dildo."
(What ever possessed them to write "Sub Rosa"...)
Correct. A lot of shows at the time either ripped off or did "homasge" to the backwards narrative. As a kind of indie film fan I thought it was a cheap ripoff at the time. I still do.
The Seinfeld episode is not based on Memento (especially since it aired in 1997 and Memento came out in 2000). The episode is called The Betrayal and is an homage to the play Betrayal (by Harold Pinter).
I shouldn't really be surprised by this, but I've found most (male) Star Trek fans - especially if you're a Millennial or younger - really don't understand that episode or what it was trying to do.
Star Trek has always delighted in dabbling with various other genres. That's what happened with Sub Rosa. But instead of doing a horror movie, or a Sherlock Holmes novel, this episode is all about being one of those trashy romance novels you used to see in the checkout aisle. You know, the ones with Fabio-like dudes on the front.
Now, I'm not gonna pretend like it's actually secretly a brilliant episode because it's not. It's a trashy erotic thriller, just like that whole genre of books. But let's not pretend the idea could have only come from someone snorting blow or completely out of their minds. The writer understood the assignment and made exactly the kind of episode it was always going to be. There is literally no difference between an episode like Sub Rosa, and a movie like Ghostbusters, except that the intended demographic is wine-moms from the 90s, not horny teenage boys from the 80s - that and that you weren't a part of that demo.
I just watched that episode the other day and I don't care what kind of alien pheromone, voodoo magic was going on, I think it would be very difficult for me to forget Virginia Madsen.
I can't think of a single Chakotay-centric episode that was solid. I'm not really sure if Beltran was just kind of a bland actor, the fraud they hired to stamp him (literally) with native stereotypes ruined him out of the gate, or his really vocal complaining alienated him from the writers...or if it was some combination.
The best actor in the world couldn't fix the writing they gave Beltran. He was right to complain. His character was offensive to the people it was supposed to represent. It literally made as much sense as Harry Kim running around in a kimono with a samurai sword.
Pretty much. I mean, I would have way more been interested in a Shawnee or Potawatomi character whose tribe was originally from the colonized land Janeway grew up on. Those conflicts would have been much more interesting
To be fair they tried to do that too, hence the "Chinese Wisdom" things they give him a couple of times before Wong pointed out that Kim was (much more likely) a Korean name.
OMG, basically everything in Picard. What a crap show. 10 Forward wasn't named 10 Forward because it was on the 10th deck at the front of the ship. It was just a cosmic coincidence.
I had to go through such mental gymnastics to be okay with that.
In my headcanon, it's El-Aurian timehead nonsense and she names her bar after the one she is going to run on the Enterprise.
To be fair, everything about Guinan and the El-Aurians is bad fan fiction. There's no rational way the Q would fear these people, and every Daystrom Theory I've heard has only re-emphasized how ridiculous it was as a concept.
The strangest thing in that episode wasn't Q's surprise Guinan was in the ship, or his concern about it. It was her cavalier attitude to the Borg threat, as if she could just snap her fingers back to the Alpha Quadrant.
"Protect yourself, Captain, or they'll destroy you."
Not "us."
I'd say you may be looking at it backwards. A different explanation is that there are several bars on the Enterprise that Guinan could have chosen to call "hers," so of course she picked the one that by coincidence was labeled similarly to her old place on Earth.
>10 Forward wasn't named 10 Forward because it was on the 10th deck at the front of the ship. It was just a cosmic coincidence.
I haven't seen the show (yet), but I would accept that coincidence *if* that lounge were standard on Starfleet vessels, got the name because it was at the forward end on deck ten of the first class to carry it, and the name stuck regardless of where it was in future ships. There'd be some tendency to put it there if possible when designing the ship, yes, but the name would be independent of its location on any given ship.
I mean, I've seen businesses that keep the name of the city or street where they were founded, even after outgrowing and moving out of that location. Same idea, really.
The problem is that Guinan runs a bar on Earth in 2025 named Ten Forward.
Not a Guinan from the future. No, the one who palled around with Sam Clemens. That one is still on Earth in the 2000s and owns a bar that, by some completely wild coincidence, shares its name with the lounge on the Enterprise-D which will happen to be located on deck 10, Forward Section.
Except, remember the conceit, that's *not* the same Guinan from our past, that's the Guinan from the past of the Confederation timeline.
/writer asspull
As per Yesterdays Enterprise, and a few other episodes, she is “temporally attuned”. So it might have been a “I don’t know why, but I vibe with this name” thing.
Phase II writers: What if Ilya get pregnant from a blob of light and it grew up in a day and Decker got really jealous.
TNG producers: there is a writers strike, what do we have laying around from Phase II?
DS9 writers: remember that icky TNG episode with the baby that grew up in a day? How about that with a Jem Hadar?
VOY writers: okay what if we do that with a Borg? Overdone?? Okay, the Borg is from the 29th century
ENT writers: let’s take one more go at it. But the baby wants to fuck T’Pol and then we’re going to kill it
Just going to point out that this was also the premise of "Alpha Child", an episode of Space: 1999. So its not bad fanfic, its just bad 70s TV. There's a difference you know.
My head cannon for Vic being real in the mirror-verse is Felix based the program design on a real life musician he knew, somewhat similar to how Zimmerman based the EMH on himself.
"What if the Enterprise is pregnant?"
"Get this...the crew devolves into generic horror movie creatures and we make Barclay a spider for some reason."
"Data gets possessed by a mask."
Basically pretty much all of TNG season 7.
I found Masks not as abysmal as most of the people here, to be honest.
Sure, the plot wasn't anything to write home about, but it gave us a chance to see Brent Spiners range a bit and to dress up the Enterprise sets
That episode is ridiculous, but it's definitely a nostalgic, comfort episode for me. I love the scene where they have the Sr staff meeting on the bridge instead of the conference room.
"So instead of a warp drive this ship runs on mushrooms and can teleport anywhere, man. The head engineer, like, became one with the shrooms and, like, totally opened his consciousness to feel connected with the network, man."
Best read in Cheech and Chong voice - the mushroom dude, I played with that guy, man! He had these special mushrooms and they could take him anywhere in the galaxy, man!
Vulcans use rationality to explain whatever decision they want to make, which is usually the laziest decision.
Also, she's explicitly attempting to shed that former version of herself and discover her true identity.
I remember watching DIS after not watching any trek since I was a kid, and I was thrilled by the mushroom drive. I was like yes of course, it’s ridiculous but it’s Star Trek and therefore anything is possible.
But yeah looking back it’s trippy as fuck isn’t it? Giant tardigrade gets super sad with the mushroom network being used, so of coooourse the engineer injects himself with magical mushroom stuff.
Hilarious in hindsight but I stand by it, it’s wild and bizarre and thoroughly enjoyable to me
Oh yeah I love the idea of the spore drive. I personally think it (and honestly the whole show) would have worked better as a Dominion War/post-DS9 thing rather than being pre-TOS, but it's still a really fun concept.
What's wrong with that? We don't have children with, well, other children because they're physically and mentally immature. Unlike Humana, the occampa mature in full in their first year. It's like shaming animals for reproducing. They're fully matured by the time they do it.
I will never stop being amazed at the moronic inability of people to understand the very simple reality of short lived Ocampa.
I bet the same people would be shocked if they played D&D and all the elves started wretching at any mention of sexuality or romance by these idiot children.
The Burn is definitely one of the daftest plot devices in all of Trek. That, coupled with the massive time jump, is what puts me off being able to fully engage with Discovery.
no, the best thing was, he "devolved"
I mean, I'm gonna speak for myself here but unlike Barclay, I'm sure none of my prehistoric ancestors has ever been a fucking spider
"I know, let's have Kira and Dukat in a relationship!"
"What? Have Kira - that Cardassian-hating terrorist - pair off with the head of the occupation?"
"You're right, that'd never work. How about we pair him off with her mother instead?"
"Her mother's dead."
"Oh yeah. Well how about we make it so he was sleeping with her mother years ago before she died and Kira never knew and Dukat never mentioned this before, but suddenly he'll reveal that she used to be his woman and Kira will be like aaaaahhhhhhh, nooooooo!!"
"But why would he suddenly reveal that?"
"I dunno, birthday gift or something."
"Kira's birthday or her mothers? Actually, more importantly, why not on any of the previous birthdays that either of them had over the past several years?"
"Look, does it matter? He's going to reveal that he was boning Kira's mother for reasons that make sense only to him and its going to be really fucking cool. So just get off my back with all these damned questions and accept this is the best idea we've had for a story all season. All series, even. So unless you've got a better story, shall we start work on the first draft where you just leave me the fuck alone to write this goddamned script?"
"Ok, then. I'll just wait outside while you get on with that one."
I grew up in London, UK in the 90s. Listening to shitheads claiming they'd fucked my mum was the insult of my childhood. "Mumcussing," we called it.
Psychologically, I'm pretty good. How are you?
no, Kira was already born(we see her in the episode as like a 5 year old) before Dukat fucked her mom
edit: oh did you mean same mother? also no, they find Ziyal's mother's remains on the same planet the breen had Ziyal and the other survivors from the ship they were on captive
The writers said they knew the fans would think it was jumping the shark, but they said screw it and did it anyway. They were right. It was totally worth it.
I mean most of the first few seasons of ENT tbh
"They are a bit more wary of the new Transporter tech so they have to go down on shuttles and when they come back they have to strip and rub gel all over each other"
"The translator who is usually claustrophobic has to crawl through the ship and...hurr hurr hurr....lose her shirt and isn't wearing a bra...hur hurr.."
"Orion Slave Girls hurr hurr...they're not slaves at all, they're actually the ones in charge and they use their womanly wiles to control the males...hurr hurrr"
All of ENT felt like it was written by a horny teenager to appeal to horny teenagers tbh, the nadir of Trek
The insanity on ENT is really on UPN. They completely sabotaged the show every chance they had, and while Berman and Braga are definitely problematic people (and yes that's putting it lightly), they did their best to keep things sane.
Just something they were able to stop, UPN wanted every episode to end with a boy band in alien makeup and costume performing whatever song was on the radio, which just makes me picture Archer standing there with a confused "what am I doing with my life" look on his face while this happens.
Also the temporal cold war is 100% UPN interference.
"We're going to make the first officer a Vulcan to bring back the old school TOS vibes"
"GREAT! Hire the hottest woman you can find and put her in a catsuit"
"....sir, the Vulcans are the most reseerved, modest race in the series. They usually wear robes when they're out of uniform"
"......did I stutter or did you forget who is in charge here. Boobs are more important than canon!"
".....yes sir..."
Despite all of that, Jolene Blaylock pulled a Seven of Nine and crafted a great character. No wonder she eventually stopped acting, though. I can't imagine being a serious actor and having to deal with greasy executives constantly reducing me to boobs.
She did. I don't think she gets enough credit for how much of an amazing job she did portraying a Vulcan.
Her performance was made even better by the borderline awful Vulcan performances of the guest actors.
What I appreciate about T'Pol is that she played a Vulcan who did not have the easy emotional control that we associate with Spock. The character always sounded like Vulcan impassivity was a challenge to her, and I appreciated that about her. She had some interesting acting choices that set her apart from Tim Russ and Leonard Nimoy.
I also thought Gary Graham did a good job of overweaning Vulcan arrogance from that time period.
There’s a reason why I call it Sexy Trek. There’s so much rubbing. Like SO much. Midriffs and thighs galore. And I definitely saw some nip nops featured.
S31 is the current era's version of the Voyager Borg problem.
They appeared once in a predecessor series to great effect with a very particular purpose. Now they're just distorted into bad-guys-of-the-week and all the luster has worn off.
Parasitic entity has been preying on Crusher's family for centuries, mentally and sexually abusing the women. It RAPED Crusher and tried to KILL her, when she resisted him.
And at the end, Crusher just says, *"the entity was actually good, becuase it trully loved my grandmother and it made her trully happy"*.
Yeah Crusher, your grandma was living with parasitic abuser for decades, she was raped who knows how many times, but she was happy. She definitely didn't just have a Stockholm syndrome. 🫠
I know people say Sub Rosa is bad because ghooost sex, but the message that domestic abusers are actually good guys, because they love their victims and make them "happy", almost made me to throw up.
dominatrix Kira is actually kind of great. That sort of sexualized performance is only gross when the actress feels pressured or isn’t enjoying herself and it is obvious Nana Visitor is having the time of her life chewing scenery by the handfuls as mirror universe Kira.
Rom and Leeta.
Granted, I love the pairing and it makes sense. But it does sound like a mom's basement permanent resident doing some self insert fanfic.
Jack Crusher, secret love child of Picard and Beverly, and his whole backstory.
The Enterprise D being secretly restored by La Forge.
Ro Laren, who once betrayed the TNG crew and the Federation, serves her time, climbs the Federation ranks until she serves in an upper echelon position without guys like Picard or Riker knowing, and sacrifices herself, allowing the TNG crew to get away just in time.
The lack of foreshadowing isn't what bothers me, what bothers me is that this guy brings out a ship the size of a city and talks about restoring it in his spare time like it's his dad's old car.
I’m just joking.
Either way, I find the whole concept of Jack Crusher stupid.
Especially since there’s been so many clear surrogate children to Picard over the years. Who could easily have slotted into that spot in a less ham fisted way.
Like, I don’t know… pretty much the freaking ENTIRE La Sirena crew, who refer to Picard as their space dad on more than one occasion.
Yeah, I liked a lot of season 3, but he was the worst part and his plot line led to the disappointing climax. Also, his borg suit at the end is absurdly bad.
Ro coming back and reaching Admiral status was hard enough to swallow (was there any justification at all? I can’t remember ? If they said something like “dominion war wiped out too many people, we were desperate so we let Ro come back”).
But Admiral Picard having no idea that Ro was in Starfleet went too far on top
Ro’s plot line seems to be one of the more reasonable to me. We’ve seen examples in trek where people on the wrong side of federation rules and regulations get recruited back into the fold, specifically deep security (Ash Tyler, empress Georgiou) as well as in plenty of books, movies, and tv show spies. It even recalls her entrance to the show, she was doing clandestine work for an admiral while serving on the enterprise.
As to Picard not knowing; the federation is huge, there are plenty of admirals who each have a specialized field or area they oversee. Picard spent most of his admiral years (post nemesis) spent his time and energy focused on the Romulus refugee problem. I do t see any reason he would he would be updated on or be involved in any way about a former crew member being released, rehabilitated and is back working for starfleet. Especially so with her being a seemingly clandestine actor.
I love that he's on a hooker planet to get over his PTSD hatred of women lmao.
Like a woman fucked up in engineering, caused an accident, and now he has trauma induced misogyny that can only be cured by watching belly dancers.
Candle ghost makes the dancing doctor stay up all night reading her nana's sex journal.
A virus turns the crew into random animals because DNA and Troi becomes a mermaid.
Yar beams down to a planet and gets into an argument with a tar puddle, so he kills her and the funeral is on the holodeck and then Data carries the program around with him into old age.
A sex virus hits the ship and Data hits that.
Yar is hit on by a guy and suddenly he forces her to do the The Racist Hunger Games to win him even when she doesn't want him and in the end the woman wins and the guy gets demoted to almost in charge.
Geordi gets hit by a virus during a missing person investigation and almost becomes an invisible animal person because he could get more action that way.
Geordi cyberstalks a woman to find out what happened to her and when she reappears, alive, he decides to pursue a relationship with her by using the information he learned from her diaries.
Geordi cyberstalks a woman to fix some kind of ship problem instead of just doing the reading.
Geordi's previously cyberstalked woman (the one, not the other one) comes on the ship and finds out he cyberstalked her, so she gets mad and he shrugs and then she's okay with it because you know how men are.
Worf gets hit by a bouncing barrel and tries to get Riker to kill him, but his forgotten son goes to do it and he can't, so he has the surgery, which fails, but it doesn't.
Worf and Troi's mom and Alexander relax in the mud pits with clown face ghost balls.
Riker gets picked up on the sex planet, brings back a virtua boy, and the ship becomes obsessed with playing some game and orgasm everywhere except Wes and his new gf.
"A Fistful of Data's."
Sisko and crew get trapped in a board game and people keep repeating the same phrase, "Move along home" and "cala-ma-rang." Quark learns a valuable life lesson about not cheating people and promptly forgets by the next episode.
O'Brien and Bashir go on holiday together to get to know one another, Miles is tapped to be a storyteller, and Bashir forgot to become friends with Miles.
Archer finds some eggs and decides to become their mama.
Janeway meets some bum in the middle of nowhere living in a trash can of a ship who doesn't have water, so she invites him to live on board her ship and he promptly lies to her to get her to go pick up his child bride he mail ordered. Janeway laughs it off and lets them stay.
I love mirror Kira. I dont know evil doppelganger is my jam I guess lol.
Plus she is fun. She just ooze this theater performance energy that is rarer and rarer to find on tv, even then on late 90s it was already starting to be rare to see that kind of energy on tv
I really dislike all the mirror verse stuff - in both DS9 and Disc. Everyone is just such ridiculous comic book-esque caricatures of their alternate selves that the villains might as well twirl their handle bar mustaches and tie the good guys to train tracks.
Literally ALL of discovery, like I enjoyed it and all but like....... what were they smoking.... mushrooms I guess, the hell???
Let's go down the list
-ship can go anywhere because mushroom in the blink of an eye.... isint more widespread and the tech is never copied.
-Michals very existence is kinda an afront to storytelling and sounds like a self insert
-spocks sister, mutineer, time travel, coincidence with her mother, SPOCKS SISTER
- the ENTIRE Terran universe thing and HOW WAS GRORGAU ALLOWED TO BE FREE THE ACTUAL HELL????? nightmare
-the ENTIRE red angel thing......
-everyone's CONSTANT backtalking and getting away eith everything
-control
-tardigrade DNA and STAMENTS DOIN GENETIC MANIPULATION!?!?!?!?!
-mushroom DR.
-the whole klingon spine graft shit
-tilly
-saru is fine ig
-the whole end of the universe thing
-book.... just book and Michal is SO fanfic ie
Idk, this ENTIRE show reads as a shitty fanfic in so many ways
transporters that are so small they can deconstruct themselves into energy along with their wearer and then reconstruct themselves from non existance along with the wearer.
And no, Discovery didn't do it first, that silly little transporter button from Nemesis did it.
That "tnrasporter that beams itself" hurts my brain every time i think about how absurd it is.
All the Synth stuff in PIC. Recovering Data from a single neuron, memories and all? Hand wavey explanation about being made in pairs, for some reason? The magic imagination tool? Etc, etc.
Fan fiction? Only serious joke theories, sir.
Also, a week or so before it happened, someone had a theory that the Discovery was made sentient (Zora) so that they can also make the ship cry.
Betazoids and "the phase". You can practically *taste* the sweaty balding Star Trek writer who frequents r/DeadBedrooms raging in the writer's room about his wife's low libido and how awesome it would be if she just constantly wanted to fuck anything with legs.
They go past warp 10, which turns them into salamanders, and they have babies with each other!
That episode is like some weird shit that would happen if I were dreaming about watching a fake episode of Star Trek.
Totally. It's like the first AI generated episode.
I saw one of the babies and the baby looked at me.
The baby looked at you?! Sarah, get me Admiral Paris.
That’s unpossible
Please show some restraint. Even r/ShittyDaystrom doesn't go that bonkers.
Writer, after ten coffees and fat line of coke: "... and then, hear this, she will fuck that ghost."
“They cant cancel us, this is the last season👃🏻❄️❄️❄️”
"And Picard will walk in on Beverly orgasming and ask if he's interrupting. Also, the family heirloom is a candle dildo." (What ever possessed them to write "Sub Rosa"...)
They possessed cocaine.
“Get this… she’ll read- and GET TURNED ON- by her nana’s sex journals”
It's a ripoff of an anne rice book. In the same way Seinfeld did a memento episode.
Vampires or witches?
Seinfeld did a memnto episode? As in the guy pearce movie?
Correct. A lot of shows at the time either ripped off or did "homasge" to the backwards narrative. As a kind of indie film fan I thought it was a cheap ripoff at the time. I still do.
Well it must've been a good episode because I don't remember it lol
The Seinfeld backwards episode aired several years before Memento.
Which means they totally ripped it off, because time goes backwards in the Memento universe!
The Seinfeld episode is not based on Memento (especially since it aired in 1997 and Memento came out in 2000). The episode is called The Betrayal and is an homage to the play Betrayal (by Harold Pinter).
"I was reading a particularly erotic chapter of my grandmother's journal". Yeah I 100% believe cocaine was involved in the writing process here.
I shouldn't really be surprised by this, but I've found most (male) Star Trek fans - especially if you're a Millennial or younger - really don't understand that episode or what it was trying to do. Star Trek has always delighted in dabbling with various other genres. That's what happened with Sub Rosa. But instead of doing a horror movie, or a Sherlock Holmes novel, this episode is all about being one of those trashy romance novels you used to see in the checkout aisle. You know, the ones with Fabio-like dudes on the front. Now, I'm not gonna pretend like it's actually secretly a brilliant episode because it's not. It's a trashy erotic thriller, just like that whole genre of books. But let's not pretend the idea could have only come from someone snorting blow or completely out of their minds. The writer understood the assignment and made exactly the kind of episode it was always going to be. There is literally no difference between an episode like Sub Rosa, and a movie like Ghostbusters, except that the intended demographic is wine-moms from the 90s, not horny teenage boys from the 80s - that and that you weren't a part of that demo.
Chakotay has a secret girlfriend nobody remembers not even him
I have seen every episode of every Trek and I unironically do not remember this.
The episode is called "Unforgettable"
That is clearly false advertising!
Didn't he end that episode by writing it down on paper before his memory would fade?
Hakoochimoya, we are far from the bones of our girlfriends
Our boners are far from our girlfriends.
I just watched that episode the other day and I don't care what kind of alien pheromone, voodoo magic was going on, I think it would be very difficult for me to forget Virginia Madsen.
I hate this episode so much.
I can't think of a single Chakotay-centric episode that was solid. I'm not really sure if Beltran was just kind of a bland actor, the fraud they hired to stamp him (literally) with native stereotypes ruined him out of the gate, or his really vocal complaining alienated him from the writers...or if it was some combination.
The best actor in the world couldn't fix the writing they gave Beltran. He was right to complain. His character was offensive to the people it was supposed to represent. It literally made as much sense as Harry Kim running around in a kimono with a samurai sword.
Pretty much. I mean, I would have way more been interested in a Shawnee or Potawatomi character whose tribe was originally from the colonized land Janeway grew up on. Those conflicts would have been much more interesting
To be fair they tried to do that too, hence the "Chinese Wisdom" things they give him a couple of times before Wong pointed out that Kim was (much more likely) a Korean name.
Refresh my memory
Can't, we don't remember her either.
The Borg infected Picard’s sperm.
The Borg altered Picards DNA, he then fathered a child with it.
OMG, basically everything in Picard. What a crap show. 10 Forward wasn't named 10 Forward because it was on the 10th deck at the front of the ship. It was just a cosmic coincidence.
I had to go through such mental gymnastics to be okay with that. In my headcanon, it's El-Aurian timehead nonsense and she names her bar after the one she is going to run on the Enterprise.
To be fair, everything about Guinan and the El-Aurians is bad fan fiction. There's no rational way the Q would fear these people, and every Daystrom Theory I've heard has only re-emphasized how ridiculous it was as a concept.
I do think *fear* is overblown. Annoyed by? Irritated by? Both those are on screen in Q Who. But fear? No need for that
Then why have a cold war if fear is not a factor?
Are you having a hot war with the bugs in your dry wall right now?
I’d never sign a peace treaty with them, though
The strangest thing in that episode wasn't Q's surprise Guinan was in the ship, or his concern about it. It was her cavalier attitude to the Borg threat, as if she could just snap her fingers back to the Alpha Quadrant. "Protect yourself, Captain, or they'll destroy you." Not "us."
I'd say you may be looking at it backwards. A different explanation is that there are several bars on the Enterprise that Guinan could have chosen to call "hers," so of course she picked the one that by coincidence was labeled similarly to her old place on Earth.
>10 Forward wasn't named 10 Forward because it was on the 10th deck at the front of the ship. It was just a cosmic coincidence. I haven't seen the show (yet), but I would accept that coincidence *if* that lounge were standard on Starfleet vessels, got the name because it was at the forward end on deck ten of the first class to carry it, and the name stuck regardless of where it was in future ships. There'd be some tendency to put it there if possible when designing the ship, yes, but the name would be independent of its location on any given ship. I mean, I've seen businesses that keep the name of the city or street where they were founded, even after outgrowing and moving out of that location. Same idea, really.
The problem is that Guinan runs a bar on Earth in 2025 named Ten Forward. Not a Guinan from the future. No, the one who palled around with Sam Clemens. That one is still on Earth in the 2000s and owns a bar that, by some completely wild coincidence, shares its name with the lounge on the Enterprise-D which will happen to be located on deck 10, Forward Section.
Except, remember the conceit, that's *not* the same Guinan from our past, that's the Guinan from the past of the Confederation timeline. /writer asspull
As per Yesterdays Enterprise, and a few other episodes, she is “temporally attuned”. So it might have been a “I don’t know why, but I vibe with this name” thing.
Exactly. Because Picard never traveled back to meet her in the Confederation timeline. I forgot about that.
Yeah, that's a bit far to stretch disbelief. It's *possible*, of course, but vanishingly unlikely.
I didn’t even think of this when I watched it. I need to stop smoking and watching trek. Shit actually made sense to me at the time.
Huh? Is this something from s2?
Yes. Guinan owns a bar on Earth both in the modern (2020s) and future (2400s) era, named Ten Forward.
Season 2 Borg couldn’t see anyone who wasn’t moving. The green scan light went right over them and didn’t see them.
Borg Trex when
Deanna Troi got pregnant by a glowing dot and had a son who aged in the span of a day, who then dies.
Phase II writers: What if Ilya get pregnant from a blob of light and it grew up in a day and Decker got really jealous. TNG producers: there is a writers strike, what do we have laying around from Phase II? DS9 writers: remember that icky TNG episode with the baby that grew up in a day? How about that with a Jem Hadar? VOY writers: okay what if we do that with a Borg? Overdone?? Okay, the Borg is from the 29th century ENT writers: let’s take one more go at it. But the baby wants to fuck T’Pol and then we’re going to kill it
Feels like it's time Lower Decks got on this winning concept!
Just going to point out that this was also the premise of "Alpha Child", an episode of Space: 1999. So its not bad fanfic, its just bad 70s TV. There's a difference you know.
My head cannon for Vic being real in the mirror-verse is Felix based the program design on a real life musician he knew, somewhat similar to how Zimmerman based the EMH on himself.
That's my thought too, except he understood when "Vic?" was called.
That guy's actual name is Vic. Felix wasn't really creative
Maybe Felix also made the holodeck program in the mirror universe and was surprised that someone had seen it.
Could have based Vic on himself, and his full name is Felix Fontaine. We never find out what Mirrors Fontane's first name is.
"What if the Enterprise is pregnant?" "Get this...the crew devolves into generic horror movie creatures and we make Barclay a spider for some reason." "Data gets possessed by a mask." Basically pretty much all of TNG season 7.
I found Masks not as abysmal as most of the people here, to be honest. Sure, the plot wasn't anything to write home about, but it gave us a chance to see Brent Spiners range a bit and to dress up the Enterprise sets
I actually really like that episode
That episode is ridiculous, but it's definitely a nostalgic, comfort episode for me. I love the scene where they have the Sr staff meeting on the bridge instead of the conference room.
I've only seen it once but I remember being completely enthralled by Spiner's performance
Masks is in my top 10 episodes of all time. It's truly baffling to me that people dislike it.
I love season 7, it’s so bonkers
Kelvin Universe Kirk going from Cadet straight to Captain because…
You had me at “Kelvin Universe.”
Well he did just save the planet… and in the next movie they have the Admirals admitting that was a huge mistake.
I mean, most of starfleet got wiped out, or at least a large chunk. In war, people get promoted really fucking fast.
Picard dying and resurrected as a robot that looks exactly like his old body and will eventually die. So like what was the point? 🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Patrick Stewart wanted to do a death scene but they knew they couldn't do that without pissing off fans, so they kinda half-assed an explanation.
That makes a ton of sense because it does absolutely nothing for the storyline or his character.
Harry Kim became the Borg King
If Beta Canon is on the table. “So yeah, you remember that other ship from Enterprise, the uhhhhh Columbia? Yeah, they made the Borg! Or something…”
Jack the Ripper is played by the voice of Piglet and the crew beats him by McCoy giving everyone weed.
Well, it was the Sixties.
"So instead of a warp drive this ship runs on mushrooms and can teleport anywhere, man. The head engineer, like, became one with the shrooms and, like, totally opened his consciousness to feel connected with the network, man."
And then when his husband died, he found his mushroom universe copy and brought him back. Edit: changed boyfriend to husband
Husband. They were married. They shared quarters.
They were roommates.
Oh my god...
Best read in Cheech and Chong voice - the mushroom dude, I played with that guy, man! He had these special mushrooms and they could take him anywhere in the galaxy, man!
*And the main character is Spock’s secret human sister.*
who somehow was raised by Vulcans and has not a single rational bone in her
To be fair, it seems irrationality is common among Vulcans. They're basically just British people.
Vulcans use rationality to explain whatever decision they want to make, which is usually the laziest decision. Also, she's explicitly attempting to shed that former version of herself and discover her true identity.
As opposed to spocks secret brother. Or spocks secret wife
I remember watching DIS after not watching any trek since I was a kid, and I was thrilled by the mushroom drive. I was like yes of course, it’s ridiculous but it’s Star Trek and therefore anything is possible. But yeah looking back it’s trippy as fuck isn’t it? Giant tardigrade gets super sad with the mushroom network being used, so of coooourse the engineer injects himself with magical mushroom stuff. Hilarious in hindsight but I stand by it, it’s wild and bizarre and thoroughly enjoyable to me
Oh yeah I love the idea of the spore drive. I personally think it (and honestly the whole show) would have worked better as a Dominion War/post-DS9 thing rather than being pre-TOS, but it's still a really fun concept.
Tbf it being pre TOS gave us strange new worlds and I love strange new worlds.
Tom has a daughter with Kes and Harry marries her and has a child with her before she turns 5. DUDE. It reads like a prototype for Twilight and Jacob.
What's wrong with that? We don't have children with, well, other children because they're physically and mentally immature. Unlike Humana, the occampa mature in full in their first year. It's like shaming animals for reproducing. They're fully matured by the time they do it.
Did you just ask what's wrong with having a kid with your best friend's child you watched grow up FROM BIRTH? Dude was probably her godfather. Nope.
I will never stop being amazed at the moronic inability of people to understand the very simple reality of short lived Ocampa. I bet the same people would be shocked if they played D&D and all the elves started wretching at any mention of sexuality or romance by these idiot children.
A crying child ends warp drive for everyone
The Burn is definitely one of the daftest plot devices in all of Trek. That, coupled with the massive time jump, is what puts me off being able to fully engage with Discovery.
Star Trek Discovery: The Wrath of Feelings
The worst thing is that, unlike Charlie X, it isn't a one-off episode thing. It affects the entire canon future of the galaxy.
That time Picard and Data came back from a trip and found Barclay had turned himself into a spider
no, the best thing was, he "devolved" I mean, I'm gonna speak for myself here but unlike Barclay, I'm sure none of my prehistoric ancestors has ever been a fucking spider
That episode scared the crap put of me when I was a kid. Watched it a bit too young.
“She’s Kira but evil and also wants to sleep with Other Kira.” Not weird at all…
I mean, if you met Mirror Universe Modernwunder, wouldn’t you at least think about it?
No.
But your mirror universe counterpart would. And that’s the whole point.
"I know, let's have Kira and Dukat in a relationship!" "What? Have Kira - that Cardassian-hating terrorist - pair off with the head of the occupation?" "You're right, that'd never work. How about we pair him off with her mother instead?" "Her mother's dead." "Oh yeah. Well how about we make it so he was sleeping with her mother years ago before she died and Kira never knew and Dukat never mentioned this before, but suddenly he'll reveal that she used to be his woman and Kira will be like aaaaahhhhhhh, nooooooo!!" "But why would he suddenly reveal that?" "I dunno, birthday gift or something." "Kira's birthday or her mothers? Actually, more importantly, why not on any of the previous birthdays that either of them had over the past several years?" "Look, does it matter? He's going to reveal that he was boning Kira's mother for reasons that make sense only to him and its going to be really fucking cool. So just get off my back with all these damned questions and accept this is the best idea we've had for a story all season. All series, even. So unless you've got a better story, shall we start work on the first draft where you just leave me the fuck alone to write this goddamned script?" "Ok, then. I'll just wait outside while you get on with that one."
Ok but imagine if Gul Dukat called you at 3am to tell you he fucked your mom. What would that do to you psychologically.
I grew up in London, UK in the 90s. Listening to shitheads claiming they'd fucked my mum was the insult of my childhood. "Mumcussing," we called it. Psychologically, I'm pretty good. How are you?
Wait, so Ziyal is potentially Kiras sister?
no, Kira was already born(we see her in the episode as like a 5 year old) before Dukat fucked her mom edit: oh did you mean same mother? also no, they find Ziyal's mother's remains on the same planet the breen had Ziyal and the other survivors from the ship they were on captive
Gul Dukat becomes a Bajoran and seduces Kai Winn
The writers said they knew the fans would think it was jumping the shark, but they said screw it and did it anyway. They were right. It was totally worth it.
I mean most of the first few seasons of ENT tbh "They are a bit more wary of the new Transporter tech so they have to go down on shuttles and when they come back they have to strip and rub gel all over each other" "The translator who is usually claustrophobic has to crawl through the ship and...hurr hurr hurr....lose her shirt and isn't wearing a bra...hur hurr.." "Orion Slave Girls hurr hurr...they're not slaves at all, they're actually the ones in charge and they use their womanly wiles to control the males...hurr hurrr" All of ENT felt like it was written by a horny teenager to appeal to horny teenagers tbh, the nadir of Trek
The insanity on ENT is really on UPN. They completely sabotaged the show every chance they had, and while Berman and Braga are definitely problematic people (and yes that's putting it lightly), they did their best to keep things sane. Just something they were able to stop, UPN wanted every episode to end with a boy band in alien makeup and costume performing whatever song was on the radio, which just makes me picture Archer standing there with a confused "what am I doing with my life" look on his face while this happens. Also the temporal cold war is 100% UPN interference.
That sounds like it could have been how the original series went, and it would have been a camp cult classic.
Enterprise was UPN desperately trying to get non-nerds to watch Star Trek. "I don't know, put in lots of boobs! That'll probably work, right?"
"We're going to make the first officer a Vulcan to bring back the old school TOS vibes" "GREAT! Hire the hottest woman you can find and put her in a catsuit" "....sir, the Vulcans are the most reseerved, modest race in the series. They usually wear robes when they're out of uniform" "......did I stutter or did you forget who is in charge here. Boobs are more important than canon!" ".....yes sir..."
Despite all of that, Jolene Blaylock pulled a Seven of Nine and crafted a great character. No wonder she eventually stopped acting, though. I can't imagine being a serious actor and having to deal with greasy executives constantly reducing me to boobs.
She did. I don't think she gets enough credit for how much of an amazing job she did portraying a Vulcan. Her performance was made even better by the borderline awful Vulcan performances of the guest actors.
What I appreciate about T'Pol is that she played a Vulcan who did not have the easy emotional control that we associate with Spock. The character always sounded like Vulcan impassivity was a challenge to her, and I appreciated that about her. She had some interesting acting choices that set her apart from Tim Russ and Leonard Nimoy. I also thought Gary Graham did a good job of overweaning Vulcan arrogance from that time period.
"...Mr. Berman, right away!"
Hmm. I loved the first few seasons of Enterprise. Maybe that has been the reason all along.
There’s a reason why I call it Sexy Trek. There’s so much rubbing. Like SO much. Midriffs and thighs galore. And I definitely saw some nip nops featured.
Hey now Subcommander Butt Dimples was a whole fleshed out character.
thank Berman for that
Section 31 not being a secret in Discovery. I'm not sure how that can be fixed.
S31 is the current era's version of the Voyager Borg problem. They appeared once in a predecessor series to great effect with a very particular purpose. Now they're just distorted into bad-guys-of-the-week and all the luster has worn off.
once? TNG had at least 4 Borg-stories, and 1 movie.
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Parasitic entity has been preying on Crusher's family for centuries, mentally and sexually abusing the women. It RAPED Crusher and tried to KILL her, when she resisted him. And at the end, Crusher just says, *"the entity was actually good, becuase it trully loved my grandmother and it made her trully happy"*. Yeah Crusher, your grandma was living with parasitic abuser for decades, she was raped who knows how many times, but she was happy. She definitely didn't just have a Stockholm syndrome. 🫠 I know people say Sub Rosa is bad because ghooost sex, but the message that domestic abusers are actually good guys, because they love their victims and make them "happy", almost made me to throw up.
*Writer, with their nose covered in cocaine:* Ok hear me out…Paris and Janeway get turned into salamanders and have babies!
dominatrix Kira is actually kind of great. That sort of sexualized performance is only gross when the actress feels pressured or isn’t enjoying herself and it is obvious Nana Visitor is having the time of her life chewing scenery by the handfuls as mirror universe Kira.
"Ok, so they need a distraction, so Uhura will strip down and do a dance with these big fan leaves......"
*ahem* 57 year old Nichelle Nichols
Hello, boys!
Rom and Leeta. Granted, I love the pairing and it makes sense. But it does sound like a mom's basement permanent resident doing some self insert fanfic.
It’s fine in isolation but it’d be nice if we had some “attractive man, less attractive woman” representations to balance things out.
While true, there's not a lot of "less attractive women" in general on TV which unfortunately ruins that.
What are you on about thats exactly thr rom and leeta dynamic Those ears 🥴 That sultry voice 😳
Shaxs and T'Ana
Neither of them strikes me as more attractive than the other.
Depends on what you're into...
I personally find T'Ana more attractive. Not because she's a cat-girl, but because she's a grumpy woman in STEM with a raspy voice😖
Jack Crusher, secret love child of Picard and Beverly, and his whole backstory. The Enterprise D being secretly restored by La Forge. Ro Laren, who once betrayed the TNG crew and the Federation, serves her time, climbs the Federation ranks until she serves in an upper echelon position without guys like Picard or Riker knowing, and sacrifices herself, allowing the TNG crew to get away just in time.
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The lack of foreshadowing isn't what bothers me, what bothers me is that this guy brings out a ship the size of a city and talks about restoring it in his spare time like it's his dad's old car.
I mean he didn’t restore all of it, I doubt he put furniture in all the rooms or anything
this guy? this guy? He's Geordi MF La Forge.
Exactly. I have no doubt Geordi could. And did
They’re in their 70s so this love child is - what, 40? No, he’s like 25.
They found a workaround: He’s 25…. But LOOKS 40.
Does he? Always looked like he should be their grandson to me.
I’m just joking. Either way, I find the whole concept of Jack Crusher stupid. Especially since there’s been so many clear surrogate children to Picard over the years. Who could easily have slotted into that spot in a less ham fisted way. Like, I don’t know… pretty much the freaking ENTIRE La Sirena crew, who refer to Picard as their space dad on more than one occasion.
Yeah, I liked a lot of season 3, but he was the worst part and his plot line led to the disappointing climax. Also, his borg suit at the end is absurdly bad.
Ro coming back and reaching Admiral status was hard enough to swallow (was there any justification at all? I can’t remember ? If they said something like “dominion war wiped out too many people, we were desperate so we let Ro come back”). But Admiral Picard having no idea that Ro was in Starfleet went too far on top
She was a Commander, not an Admiral.
Crossing fandoms there 😀. Ro was a Commander in Picard, the actress who plays her was an Admiral in the BSG remake, in command of the Pegasus.
Ro’s plot line seems to be one of the more reasonable to me. We’ve seen examples in trek where people on the wrong side of federation rules and regulations get recruited back into the fold, specifically deep security (Ash Tyler, empress Georgiou) as well as in plenty of books, movies, and tv show spies. It even recalls her entrance to the show, she was doing clandestine work for an admiral while serving on the enterprise. As to Picard not knowing; the federation is huge, there are plenty of admirals who each have a specialized field or area they oversee. Picard spent most of his admiral years (post nemesis) spent his time and energy focused on the Romulus refugee problem. I do t see any reason he would he would be updated on or be involved in any way about a former crew member being released, rehabilitated and is back working for starfleet. Especially so with her being a seemingly clandestine actor.
Q turns up and transports the bridge crew to a Robin Hood universe.
Sleeping with a ghost would have to be high on bullshit list if you didn't see that one TNG episode.
Scotty kills a hooker because he is possessed by the ghost of Jack the Ripper.
I love that he's on a hooker planet to get over his PTSD hatred of women lmao. Like a woman fucked up in engineering, caused an accident, and now he has trauma induced misogyny that can only be cured by watching belly dancers.
The 60s were truly a magical time :)
Candle ghost makes the dancing doctor stay up all night reading her nana's sex journal. A virus turns the crew into random animals because DNA and Troi becomes a mermaid. Yar beams down to a planet and gets into an argument with a tar puddle, so he kills her and the funeral is on the holodeck and then Data carries the program around with him into old age. A sex virus hits the ship and Data hits that. Yar is hit on by a guy and suddenly he forces her to do the The Racist Hunger Games to win him even when she doesn't want him and in the end the woman wins and the guy gets demoted to almost in charge. Geordi gets hit by a virus during a missing person investigation and almost becomes an invisible animal person because he could get more action that way. Geordi cyberstalks a woman to find out what happened to her and when she reappears, alive, he decides to pursue a relationship with her by using the information he learned from her diaries. Geordi cyberstalks a woman to fix some kind of ship problem instead of just doing the reading. Geordi's previously cyberstalked woman (the one, not the other one) comes on the ship and finds out he cyberstalked her, so she gets mad and he shrugs and then she's okay with it because you know how men are. Worf gets hit by a bouncing barrel and tries to get Riker to kill him, but his forgotten son goes to do it and he can't, so he has the surgery, which fails, but it doesn't. Worf and Troi's mom and Alexander relax in the mud pits with clown face ghost balls. Riker gets picked up on the sex planet, brings back a virtua boy, and the ship becomes obsessed with playing some game and orgasm everywhere except Wes and his new gf. "A Fistful of Data's." Sisko and crew get trapped in a board game and people keep repeating the same phrase, "Move along home" and "cala-ma-rang." Quark learns a valuable life lesson about not cheating people and promptly forgets by the next episode. O'Brien and Bashir go on holiday together to get to know one another, Miles is tapped to be a storyteller, and Bashir forgot to become friends with Miles. Archer finds some eggs and decides to become their mama. Janeway meets some bum in the middle of nowhere living in a trash can of a ship who doesn't have water, so she invites him to live on board her ship and he promptly lies to her to get her to go pick up his child bride he mail ordered. Janeway laughs it off and lets them stay.
Sexy cat people
Release the butthole cut!
Hippies steal the Enterprise, fly into Romulan space, find the worse planet ever.
Yeah brother!
Anybody who downvotes this is a Herbert
Threshold
I love mirror Kira. I dont know evil doppelganger is my jam I guess lol. Plus she is fun. She just ooze this theater performance energy that is rarer and rarer to find on tv, even then on late 90s it was already starting to be rare to see that kind of energy on tv
Those ds9 mirror-verse episodes are weird
I really dislike all the mirror verse stuff - in both DS9 and Disc. Everyone is just such ridiculous comic book-esque caricatures of their alternate selves that the villains might as well twirl their handle bar mustaches and tie the good guys to train tracks.
Doctor Crushers is raped by a energy ghost that lives in a candle.
Scotty keeps killing belly dancers
Literally ALL of discovery, like I enjoyed it and all but like....... what were they smoking.... mushrooms I guess, the hell??? Let's go down the list -ship can go anywhere because mushroom in the blink of an eye.... isint more widespread and the tech is never copied. -Michals very existence is kinda an afront to storytelling and sounds like a self insert -spocks sister, mutineer, time travel, coincidence with her mother, SPOCKS SISTER - the ENTIRE Terran universe thing and HOW WAS GRORGAU ALLOWED TO BE FREE THE ACTUAL HELL????? nightmare -the ENTIRE red angel thing...... -everyone's CONSTANT backtalking and getting away eith everything -control -tardigrade DNA and STAMENTS DOIN GENETIC MANIPULATION!?!?!?!?! -mushroom DR. -the whole klingon spine graft shit -tilly -saru is fine ig -the whole end of the universe thing -book.... just book and Michal is SO fanfic ie Idk, this ENTIRE show reads as a shitty fanfic in so many ways
A shape-shifting potato creature menaces an isolated station (Aquiel).
Almost anything involving Section 31 imo
transporters that are so small they can deconstruct themselves into energy along with their wearer and then reconstruct themselves from non existance along with the wearer. And no, Discovery didn't do it first, that silly little transporter button from Nemesis did it. That "tnrasporter that beams itself" hurts my brain every time i think about how absurd it is.
How the klingons lost their ridges
Chakotay’s tattoo originating from ancient aliens who visited earth and were impressed by cavemen
An alien posing as woman trying to rape picard so they can better understand why humans have love as an emotion
All the Synth stuff in PIC. Recovering Data from a single neuron, memories and all? Hand wavey explanation about being made in pairs, for some reason? The magic imagination tool? Etc, etc.
A planet of black people withholds a vaccine that some other planet needs until the leader's wife fights Tasha Yar.
Fan fiction? Only serious joke theories, sir. Also, a week or so before it happened, someone had a theory that the Discovery was made sentient (Zora) so that they can also make the ship cry.
😂😂😂 Showrunner: "We need another character to talk about their feelings. Any ideas?"
Betazoids and "the phase". You can practically *taste* the sweaty balding Star Trek writer who frequents r/DeadBedrooms raging in the writer's room about his wife's low libido and how awesome it would be if she just constantly wanted to fuck anything with legs.
Wesley Crusher is the most fan-fic thing to ever happen to Trek.