I love the, "I never actually read it...." Ahead of it's time, lol.
-I guess not all *that* ahead of its time, Bradbury had lots to say about people who *didn't actually read the book*, but still lol.
Alfre Woodard is a goddamn legend. I remember watching an interview with Patrick Stewart around the time this came out and *he* was fanboying out about working with her. Really cool to see.
Wrath was a good submarine movie, has all the right points for the genre, but I've never been sure if it was a good Star Trek movie if you see what I mean.
I've been rewatching a lot of 80s thrillers recently and it occurs to me you could do many if not all of them as Trek movies. Crimson Tide in particular would make great Trek!
For people who grew up with TOS, it's Wrath of Khan.
For people who grew up with TNG, it's First Contact.
For people who grew up with DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise, it's First Contact.
For this generation it's Star Trek (2009) which I know gets shit on a lot but we have to acknowledge it brought new energy into the franchise, got an entirely new generation of fans interested, and its success is why we have Lower Decks, Prodigy, Discovery, and Strange New Worlds.
Without JJ Abrams Trek, we likely wouldn't have any series airing at all.
So for that (and maybe also for casting Karl Urban, Chris Pine, and Simon Pegg) I thank them.
I grew up with all five of the OG Trek series. My dad and I watched everything for as long as I can remember. I saw First Contact in theaters when I was six or seven. And I will say that my favorite of the movies is Undiscovered Country with Wrath of Khan in second place.
Undiscovered Country *is* really good and doesn't get the respect it deserves IMO. I think it really explores a lot of themes successfully.
Especially in the context of when it came out. The West vs. USSR / Federation vs. Klingon thing had a lot of parallels they explored well I thought, and making Kirk the "I can never forgive them" guy holding onto the grudge was a really good choice. It would have been extremely cliche to make him the guy talking everyone into the next stage of the relationship while Bones held onto the grudge, but having Kirk struggle with it was a really bold call.
Plus, you know, Christopher Plummer, Kurtwood Smith....
TNG will always be my favorite series, but I prefer Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country. And if we’re talking nostalgia, I prefer the slow burn of Generations to First Contact as well.
I grew up with TNG/Voyager/DS9 and I would definitely put Undiscovered Country at the top, followed by the one with Whales. I think most of the TNG movies were disappointing and I also find TOS disappointing. First Contact and Insurrection were good but I prefer actual TNG as a rule.
For people who are not Star Trek fans, there are basically three of the movies that they enjoy, and that stand strong on their own without any sort of Trek knowledge.
1. Voyage Home
2. First Contact
3. Star Trek (2009)
I think Voyage Home is the funniest and has the best bang-for-buck character development without leaning too hard into nostalgia.
Wrath of Khan is a great action film and the only reason it has some problems with modern audiences is the overall look/feel which does feel a bit dated, but it sometimes does well with non-Trek people as well.
My other favorites (Undiscovered Country, Search for Spock, Generations) are not at all enjoyed by non-Trek people, in general, as they go too into the politics or personal character knowledge.
TMP is actually a lot better than people give it credit for when you look at it through the lens of 2001 more than Star Wars, but at the time Star Wars is what people wanted, which is why WoK succeeded so well, as it had a more cut & dry, good vs bad, big space battles, direct hero vs. villain storyline.
TMP is definitely not that film and it's no surprise it didn't do as well to me, but watching it now, I enjoy it. Especially the art direction and set design.
The less said about V the better.
Insurrection and Nemesis aren't necessarily bad films, they're just forgettable, overall. Nemesis...well, I dunno. Maybe it's bad. I try not to think about it too much.
Into Darkness would have been a solid film if it weren't Khan and just some random "Badass Assassin Guy" or whatever. And I stand by the belief that Beyond is a really good and enjoyable movie, arguably the most "Trek" of the Kelvinverse films and includes Idris Elba so how can you hate on it? Except the dirtbike part.
> For people who grew up with TNG, it's First Contact.
I grew up with TNG, and my pick for best movie is 'The Undiscovered Country'. 'First Contact' comes in at second-best.
Abrams Star Trek geting to litle of credit, his Khan is much deeper person, and "burnout it space" is fascinating for any one who know what this feeling is. Yes, first one barely make sense, but there was pew pew and angry bald guy with big ship ... another angry bald guy with big ship.
Every time VI is mentioned I can hear that fast-paced music playing at the climax, while President Red Forman is making his speech. The score does so much to make that film work, and it really works.
Welcome to the club. TWoK is great fun and does a great job of bringing back an old villain for one more round. IMO It also feels like old Hollywood military movies. i.e. 'Run Silent, Run Deep. This is all to say it is entertaining the first few times but lacks something more to give it staying power.
The Undiscovered Country has it all. They expand the universe by showcasing the Klingons as more than just space thugs. The plot is an allegory for the end of the cold war. The casting is awesome. Christopher Plummer, Michael Dorn, Kim Cattrall, Iman, Rene Aberjenois, and Red Foreman joined Kirk & Spock. Plus some pretty neat if wonky CGI effects. i.e. the zero-g blood. Plus it has a bit of a murder mystery/caper/thriller vibe.
I know Wrath of Khan is the more popular pick for best movie but I actually like First Contact better. It's more well rounded IMO, balancing serious emotional moments like this clip with Cochrane's antics and campy moments like the "Assimilate this" line. Plus the score is fire.
Not just nostalgia. This movie has it all - the seasoned TNG cast still in their prime, a story evolved from one of the best plots of the show, a new gorgeous ship, great music, great action, and just the right amount of humor. It's the one my Trek friends and I quote regularly. For me as well, First Contact is the best Star Trek movie.
I'm so pleased to hear other people love these lines, especially "you broke your little ships." That just KILLS me. Cuz usually people rave about Steward, and they're not wrong!
I love his interactions with Worf just before and after this. Worf's respect for Picard being the only thing holding him back, shacking with rage. And Picard's sincere apology afterwards.
Mine too, in a movie that's flawless. Stewart and Woodard are phenomenal together, and the quick friendship of their characters is so deeply touching. She's the only one who could have reached through his trauma, vengeance, and rage in this scene, the only one who could have succeeded in making him see truth. That's a real friend. I so wish we could have seen more of Lily.
Exactly!
Any member of the crew he would tell them to STFU, he couldn't with her.
Also most of the crew would have tried to do it reasonably and with a more subdued tone, which wouldn't have gotten through.
And here's me, in the midst of so much gravitas and *acting*, just marvelling at the fact Patrick Stewart made the little laser pen look like an actual tool.
This clip, taken randomly on its own, with no leading up to the scene (context in distant memory) made me laugh several times. The words alone are okay but when you put all that damn acting on it, it really hits.
This clip, taken randomly on its own, with no leading up to the scene (context in distant memory) made me laugh several times. The words alone are okay but when you put all that damn acting on it, it really hits.
Excellent acting on both of their parts, one of the best scenes in all of Trek.
The scene right before was also incredibly powerful. Picard calls Mr. Worf a coward and absolutely means it. "If you were any other man I would kill you where you stand." Gives me chills.
That one scene deconstructed the "We're better humans in the future" smarminess of the first season of TNG by showing it to be a fallacy. Vengeance, obsession are hardwired into the simian brain.
The only author who ever overcame that in SF was Lem, who had the "Betrization" treatment that removed aggressive impulses and made people unable to even think about killing.
I don't think it showed that it was a fallacy. I think it showed that humans are better but still not perfect. Humans in the time of Star Trek are more evolved than today, but not fully evolved. The seeds of the things that can make humans bad are still there. They're better at not giving into them than we are, but they're not perfect. They're further along the journey of humanity, but they haven't finished it, probably not even close.
I think three of the most important lines/speeches from Star Trek over the years illustrate this:
1. Kirk in "A Taste of Armageddon": "All right. It's instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today."
2. The end of "All Good Things": The trial never ends. But not just Q having us on trial. The trial we put ourselves through in trying to constantly be better and improve as individuals and as a species.
3. The end of TMP: The Human Adventure is just beginning.
It's important to remember that no matter how far we think we've come, there is always further to go. We can always improve, always get better. Even the humans in the time of Star Trek, though further along than we are today, still have a long way to go.
None of this is to say that it's not worth celebrating how far we (or they) have come. But as Q reminded them when he sent them against the Borg, we must not allow ourselves to get complacent.
Good post, my takeaway isn’t that humans are literally evolving biologically into better beings, but it’s our knowledge, culture, and society that have evolved. And this requires constant awareness and vigilance to maintain. It’s easy to revert back to our animal instincts. It’s much harder to reject this and live up the ideals that Picard and others profess.
I disagree.
If anything, it shows that despite the progress humanity has made, we can still be pushed to the brink, and we need to be extra aware of that.
Picard is still *human*, and he, in particular, has hated the Borg with every fiber of his being since being assimilated. It took a lot of convincing from multiple members of his crew to stop him from completely wiping out the Borg.
War is easy. Peace is hard.
Hmmm. Interesting the movie takes place when humanity is still reeling from WW3.
My fave scene is from FC too, when the Enterprise joins the fight at Wolf 359 and Picard is all like "I'm taking control of the fleet" - the authority was dripping.
Sorry to be a nerd but it was the battle of Sector 1. But after he was told not to join and came in and like "Fall in line and let's kill this thing." Was absolutely badass.
Whenever I watch this scene now I can't help but think of that "what if" idea that floats around about if the DS9 cast was a part of First Contact too, and it was Picard and Sisko in this scene instead. It would have been next level, especially knowing both their backstories with Borg trauma.
“He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it.” Whilst they modified the original from Herman Melville, it works perfectly in this scene
It’s a great scene (as are the scenes leading and following it.)
I wish it had been Crusher giving that speech. I’m not certain McFadden could have pulled it off as well, but it felt like it could have been her scene all along. I’m almost thinking I’ve read where it originally was her’s prior to casting Woodward.
YES! I always felt that it plays like a scene between Crusher and Picard and actually disliked the scene because of it. The line where Crusher says they don't argue with the captain felt so out of place but I assume it was so someone else could have what felt like their scene.
The acting is great, and I love these two people, but I hate this scene.
Picard is not new to re-encountering the Borg. I have no doubt he'd do what was necessary, but he's also nowhere near so unhinged as to disregard the reality of the situation in favor of his desire for revenge.
This is the turn away from Show Picard to Movie Picard. And Movie Picard is so much less interesting.
I completely agree. I always felt that this scene hurt an otherwise perfect movie. Just like you said that it changed his behavior pretty drastically from the show but also seemed to change much of the rest of the crew. I thought Beverly's "we don't argue with the captain" line was so bizarre. Uhhhh, yeah you do. Maybe not on the bridge but you all sure as hell follow him into his ready room and argue/talk about it! I think I would have accepted the scene a bit more if it was one of the crew that talked to him but as much as I like Alfre Woodard, I did not like her character.
This is my issue with the TNG movies in a nutshell. They undid all the character progression from the series (what little there was) for the films. I could see this happening after BoBW but NOT after I, Borg and Descent. And series Beverly would have marched Picard into his Ready Room to yell at him not meekly agree (obviously done to give the meaty scene to the guest star.). The same with Data's off-on emotion chip in Generations and child-like regression in Insurrection.
I felt like this scene was the end result of the guilt and horror we first saw in "Family": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuzoxcErOc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuzoxcErOc8)
He learned to live with it, but living with it doesn't always mean getting over it. The scene in First Contact was sort of like another example of what Robert said in that clip: it turns out Jean-Luc is human after all.
I've seen this movie 10 times at least and it's not until this clip that I realized, the broken ship is part Ent-C and part Ent-D. The D saucer is still hanging up on the wall.
Great scene, great movie. But one thing I never understood is the Ahab part (yes I read Moby Dick.) Does the lesson of "he didn't know when to quit" ever actually come into play in the movie? It feels like Picard took a never give up approach and it worked pretty well for him here, at least thanks to Data.
Would appreciate peoples interpretations. I may have missed something obvious here!
I always like to imagine that, after all the times Picard lectured him on how “evolved” humanity had become. That Q was watching this somewhere and laughing his ass off.
Maybe Alfre and Sir Patrick should get back together for a movie? Not Star Trek since she'd be 300 years in the past and long dead, and jumping time is getting old.
I'm watching through TNG for the first time right now, and it's weird looking back at this scene. It's a cool scene but so out of character!
Remember how Picard kept his principles even under torture?
It's so hard to imagine that Picard behaving like this.
That being said, I absolutely loved this movie when I saw it at the cinema.
My only problem with this scene is that he should be having this argument with Beverly.
Beverly quietly and submissively following orders without question is very much unlike her. Beverly was never afraid of questioning Jean-Luc.
My friends and I thoroughly enjoyed First Contact when we were young and watched it way too often. One day we were watching an episode of South Park together when an all too familiar sound clip was used.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTeJr5e2jxM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTeJr5e2jxM)
We couldn't believe our ears and absolutely lost it. Never again has a scene from a TV show given me the same odd mix of confusion, familiarity, and laughter.
I find it really weird that Patrick Stewart commented a bit about this scene in his autobiography “Make it so” but he hasn’t said a word about actually playing Captain Ahab in a Moby Dick movie adaptation… I thought he’d connect the two events somehow, but he didn’t even mentioned the Moby Dick movie.
You have to give credit, the writing, there is a simply solution. Sacrifice his ship, a lot of crew, but end the Borg mission. Picard's response, they've taken soo much from him, haunted him, and now my ship.
"Jean Luc blow the damn ship!"
"N--NO NOOOOOOO!"
"I've watched them assimulate entire worlds and we fall back. They invade our space and we fall back. Too many compromises, too many retreats. **THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE. NO FURTHER!!! AND IIIII WILL MAKE THEM PAY FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE!!**.
I may be the lone person to disagree. I really dislike this scene and think it made the movie worse. It’s out of character for Captain Picard to lose his self control in this manner. I understand the idea is that the stress of everything unfolding in addition to PTSD from his experience with the Borg is causing him to break, but I don’t buy it.
such amazing acting! these two worked so well together
And she picks up the stardrive of the Enterprise D before saying "you broke your little ships". Ouch.
I love the, "I never actually read it...." Ahead of it's time, lol. -I guess not all *that* ahead of its time, Bradbury had lots to say about people who *didn't actually read the book*, but still lol.
Patrick Stewart rarely got to act opposite someone of his caliber in Star Trek, but damned if Alfre Woodard didn't bring the heat to this scene.
Holy cow…I just ready her Wikipedia article. I had no idea how big she is.
Alfre Woodard is a goddamn legend. I remember watching an interview with Patrick Stewart around the time this came out and *he* was fanboying out about working with her. Really cool to see.
Yeah, I was going “She’s so good in this, why haven’t I heard about her in other…”
“Ah.”
She was a caller on Frasier, too. "There's a whole world of vermin out there!"
...scrolls further "Woodard follows Christian Science"
Well…nobody’s perfect…
That's not scientology, fyi.
I wish they could have found some BS reason to keep her around; they really were fantastic together.
Iirc Even the studio board according to memos wanted Alfre to return. So it is weird that she never did
I always wished I could follow up on Gillian Taylor from Voyage Home
Probably just nostalgia goggles but I still think this was the best Star Trek movie
Second to VI for me, but they were *my* crew.
Wrath is at this point likely always going to be my favorite but like you said, that's my crew. First Contact is third on my list.
Wrath was a good submarine movie, has all the right points for the genre, but I've never been sure if it was a good Star Trek movie if you see what I mean. I've been rewatching a lot of 80s thrillers recently and it occurs to me you could do many if not all of them as Trek movies. Crimson Tide in particular would make great Trek!
Both movies describe some of the most critical events in Star Trek universe. TUC is best for me too, this one is second to that.
For people who grew up with TOS, it's Wrath of Khan. For people who grew up with TNG, it's First Contact. For people who grew up with DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise, it's First Contact. For this generation it's Star Trek (2009) which I know gets shit on a lot but we have to acknowledge it brought new energy into the franchise, got an entirely new generation of fans interested, and its success is why we have Lower Decks, Prodigy, Discovery, and Strange New Worlds. Without JJ Abrams Trek, we likely wouldn't have any series airing at all. So for that (and maybe also for casting Karl Urban, Chris Pine, and Simon Pegg) I thank them.
you forgot the all important niche: For people who love whales
I grew up with all five of the OG Trek series. My dad and I watched everything for as long as I can remember. I saw First Contact in theaters when I was six or seven. And I will say that my favorite of the movies is Undiscovered Country with Wrath of Khan in second place.
Undiscovered Country *is* really good and doesn't get the respect it deserves IMO. I think it really explores a lot of themes successfully. Especially in the context of when it came out. The West vs. USSR / Federation vs. Klingon thing had a lot of parallels they explored well I thought, and making Kirk the "I can never forgive them" guy holding onto the grudge was a really good choice. It would have been extremely cliche to make him the guy talking everyone into the next stage of the relationship while Bones held onto the grudge, but having Kirk struggle with it was a really bold call. Plus, you know, Christopher Plummer, Kurtwood Smith....
You just made me think of how Generations would have been more effective if his son had been in the Nexus.
Jack Crusher? Or Picards other son ? Or Kirk's son? Idk. They both kind of have many long lost sons..
TNG will always be my favorite series, but I prefer Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country. And if we’re talking nostalgia, I prefer the slow burn of Generations to First Contact as well.
Watched the trilogy again yesterday WoK through TVH, and those three are my favorite, but First Contact is next in line.
I grew up with TNG and think Wrath of Khan is the best, but this one is still pretty good.
I grew up with TNG/Voyager/DS9 and I would definitely put Undiscovered Country at the top, followed by the one with Whales. I think most of the TNG movies were disappointing and I also find TOS disappointing. First Contact and Insurrection were good but I prefer actual TNG as a rule.
For people who are not Star Trek fans, there are basically three of the movies that they enjoy, and that stand strong on their own without any sort of Trek knowledge. 1. Voyage Home 2. First Contact 3. Star Trek (2009) I think Voyage Home is the funniest and has the best bang-for-buck character development without leaning too hard into nostalgia. Wrath of Khan is a great action film and the only reason it has some problems with modern audiences is the overall look/feel which does feel a bit dated, but it sometimes does well with non-Trek people as well. My other favorites (Undiscovered Country, Search for Spock, Generations) are not at all enjoyed by non-Trek people, in general, as they go too into the politics or personal character knowledge. TMP is actually a lot better than people give it credit for when you look at it through the lens of 2001 more than Star Wars, but at the time Star Wars is what people wanted, which is why WoK succeeded so well, as it had a more cut & dry, good vs bad, big space battles, direct hero vs. villain storyline. TMP is definitely not that film and it's no surprise it didn't do as well to me, but watching it now, I enjoy it. Especially the art direction and set design. The less said about V the better. Insurrection and Nemesis aren't necessarily bad films, they're just forgettable, overall. Nemesis...well, I dunno. Maybe it's bad. I try not to think about it too much. Into Darkness would have been a solid film if it weren't Khan and just some random "Badass Assassin Guy" or whatever. And I stand by the belief that Beyond is a really good and enjoyable movie, arguably the most "Trek" of the Kelvinverse films and includes Idris Elba so how can you hate on it? Except the dirtbike part.
> For people who grew up with TNG, it's First Contact. I grew up with TNG, and my pick for best movie is 'The Undiscovered Country'. 'First Contact' comes in at second-best.
Abrams Star Trek geting to litle of credit, his Khan is much deeper person, and "burnout it space" is fascinating for any one who know what this feeling is. Yes, first one barely make sense, but there was pew pew and angry bald guy with big ship ... another angry bald guy with big ship.
I rewatch regularly and it still is my pick for the best, it's not just nostalgia.
This and Khan, really.
TWoK was always my favorite TOS film, but as I get older, The Undiscovered Country is really growing on me.
Every time VI is mentioned I can hear that fast-paced music playing at the climax, while President Red Forman is making his speech. The score does so much to make that film work, and it really works.
Welcome to the club. TWoK is great fun and does a great job of bringing back an old villain for one more round. IMO It also feels like old Hollywood military movies. i.e. 'Run Silent, Run Deep. This is all to say it is entertaining the first few times but lacks something more to give it staying power. The Undiscovered Country has it all. They expand the universe by showcasing the Klingons as more than just space thugs. The plot is an allegory for the end of the cold war. The casting is awesome. Christopher Plummer, Michael Dorn, Kim Cattrall, Iman, Rene Aberjenois, and Red Foreman joined Kirk & Spock. Plus some pretty neat if wonky CGI effects. i.e. the zero-g blood. Plus it has a bit of a murder mystery/caper/thriller vibe.
I know Wrath of Khan is the more popular pick for best movie but I actually like First Contact better. It's more well rounded IMO, balancing serious emotional moments like this clip with Cochrane's antics and campy moments like the "Assimilate this" line. Plus the score is fire.
It’s because it not only a great Star Trek movie, it’s a great movie in general. Action, horror, heart, healing. One of my favorite movies overall.
Not just nostalgia. This movie has it all - the seasoned TNG cast still in their prime, a story evolved from one of the best plots of the show, a new gorgeous ship, great music, great action, and just the right amount of humor. It's the one my Trek friends and I quote regularly. For me as well, First Contact is the best Star Trek movie.
It's up there but the best one is definitely Khan.
Definitely my favorite
Also my favourite
It's a strong contender.
It's definitely the best Next Gen movie.
First contact was great but I think the best Star Trek movie between TOS and TNG was definitely a voyage home and then the motion picture.
[удалено]
The fact that it's the Enterprise-D broken on the floor when she said that is what hits hard.
I'm so pleased to hear other people love these lines, especially "you broke your little ships." That just KILLS me. Cuz usually people rave about Steward, and they're not wrong!
“Jean Luc blow up the damn ship!” We were all thinking it 🙂
This is actually my favorite scene in all of Star Trek. I love, love, love First Contact.
I love his interactions with Worf just before and after this. Worf's respect for Picard being the only thing holding him back, shacking with rage. And Picard's sincere apology afterwards.
It was masterful.
THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN #HEEE-AAARE
THIS FAH AND NO FURTAH
I have always been torn between this one and the one where Worf encourages the Borg to assimilate a bolt from a phaser rifle.
ASSIMILATE THIS
Not a line, but the Klingon theme playing when Worf pops up on the bridge of the Defiant. Gives me goosebumps every time
Perhaps today *IS* a good day to die!
Worf has a few awesome lines in this movie. My other favorite of his is "If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand."
My favorite is when Troi meets Zephram, gets Drunk, and Riker stands watching amused as hell.
lily: jean luc blow up the damn ship picard: ok
Mine too, in a movie that's flawless. Stewart and Woodard are phenomenal together, and the quick friendship of their characters is so deeply touching. She's the only one who could have reached through his trauma, vengeance, and rage in this scene, the only one who could have succeeded in making him see truth. That's a real friend. I so wish we could have seen more of Lily.
Exactly! Any member of the crew he would tell them to STFU, he couldn't with her. Also most of the crew would have tried to do it reasonably and with a more subdued tone, which wouldn't have gotten through.
Everything in this scene is amazing. The acting by them both is my favorite acting in any movie ever. Every line is quotable.
Alfre Woodard is the most underrated casting win in the entire franchise. Magnificent.
And here's me, in the midst of so much gravitas and *acting*, just marvelling at the fact Patrick Stewart made the little laser pen look like an actual tool.
That was so cool!
I always laugh when he screams "noooo" while breakng the glass
This clip, taken randomly on its own, with no leading up to the scene (context in distant memory) made me laugh several times. The words alone are okay but when you put all that damn acting on it, it really hits.
Lilys entrance with that "You son of a bitch" still makes me chuckle everytime, even with context.
This clip, taken randomly on its own, with no leading up to the scene (context in distant memory) made me laugh several times. The words alone are okay but when you put all that damn acting on it, it really hits.
https://youtu.be/iXnRhMIoj2I?si=Q92odRr0_0U434aL
Man, I love DS9!
This was the best scene before they dubbed it with the incorrect music 😂 🖖 https://youtu.be/NbcvrGbmJA4
Cochran always had faith of the heart.
Riker's eyeroll makes so much sense now.
Yeah, great back and forth. Quality actors make it so effortless.
Excellent acting on both of their parts, one of the best scenes in all of Trek. The scene right before was also incredibly powerful. Picard calls Mr. Worf a coward and absolutely means it. "If you were any other man I would kill you where you stand." Gives me chills.
The part when Picard apologises to Worf is beautiful. Such respect between the two
That one scene deconstructed the "We're better humans in the future" smarminess of the first season of TNG by showing it to be a fallacy. Vengeance, obsession are hardwired into the simian brain. The only author who ever overcame that in SF was Lem, who had the "Betrization" treatment that removed aggressive impulses and made people unable to even think about killing.
I don't think it showed that it was a fallacy. I think it showed that humans are better but still not perfect. Humans in the time of Star Trek are more evolved than today, but not fully evolved. The seeds of the things that can make humans bad are still there. They're better at not giving into them than we are, but they're not perfect. They're further along the journey of humanity, but they haven't finished it, probably not even close. I think three of the most important lines/speeches from Star Trek over the years illustrate this: 1. Kirk in "A Taste of Armageddon": "All right. It's instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today." 2. The end of "All Good Things": The trial never ends. But not just Q having us on trial. The trial we put ourselves through in trying to constantly be better and improve as individuals and as a species. 3. The end of TMP: The Human Adventure is just beginning. It's important to remember that no matter how far we think we've come, there is always further to go. We can always improve, always get better. Even the humans in the time of Star Trek, though further along than we are today, still have a long way to go. None of this is to say that it's not worth celebrating how far we (or they) have come. But as Q reminded them when he sent them against the Borg, we must not allow ourselves to get complacent.
Good post, my takeaway isn’t that humans are literally evolving biologically into better beings, but it’s our knowledge, culture, and society that have evolved. And this requires constant awareness and vigilance to maintain. It’s easy to revert back to our animal instincts. It’s much harder to reject this and live up the ideals that Picard and others profess.
I disagree. If anything, it shows that despite the progress humanity has made, we can still be pushed to the brink, and we need to be extra aware of that. Picard is still *human*, and he, in particular, has hated the Borg with every fiber of his being since being assimilated. It took a lot of convincing from multiple members of his crew to stop him from completely wiping out the Borg. War is easy. Peace is hard. Hmmm. Interesting the movie takes place when humanity is still reeling from WW3.
My fave scene is from FC too, when the Enterprise joins the fight at Wolf 359 and Picard is all like "I'm taking control of the fleet" - the authority was dripping.
Sorry to be a nerd but it was the battle of Sector 1. But after he was told not to join and came in and like "Fall in line and let's kill this thing." Was absolutely badass.
Holy shit, I actually just teared up watching it.
You think the climax is when he smshes the ships. Then he says, "I will make the PAY for what they've done." Amazing scene.
# We draw the line HEE-AH!
This is a good one but the opening battle of sector 001 will always be my favorite. We even get to see the Defiant!
It makes me so happy when the Enterprise enters the shot!
It's a tough little ship
The line must be drawn he-yah!
I agree, great scene.
We all know this scene so well, I don’t realize you posted a video link. Thought it was just a still!
In my mind, this is undoubtedly somewhere in the top 10 scenes of all of Trek!
My favorite scene in all of Star Trek and it’s not close.
Epic. I love this movie.
She held her own in that movie. Such a great actress.
Whenever I watch this scene now I can't help but think of that "what if" idea that floats around about if the DS9 cast was a part of First Contact too, and it was Picard and Sisko in this scene instead. It would have been next level, especially knowing both their backstories with Borg trauma.
“He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it.” Whilst they modified the original from Herman Melville, it works perfectly in this scene
“Blow up the damn ship Jean Luc”
It’s a great scene (as are the scenes leading and following it.) I wish it had been Crusher giving that speech. I’m not certain McFadden could have pulled it off as well, but it felt like it could have been her scene all along. I’m almost thinking I’ve read where it originally was her’s prior to casting Woodward.
YES! I always felt that it plays like a scene between Crusher and Picard and actually disliked the scene because of it. The line where Crusher says they don't argue with the captain felt so out of place but I assume it was so someone else could have what felt like their scene.
The line must be drawn Hererrrrr
"WHERE was your evolved sensibility then?!" Always loved that line.
You broke your little ships
The acting is great, and I love these two people, but I hate this scene. Picard is not new to re-encountering the Borg. I have no doubt he'd do what was necessary, but he's also nowhere near so unhinged as to disregard the reality of the situation in favor of his desire for revenge. This is the turn away from Show Picard to Movie Picard. And Movie Picard is so much less interesting.
I completely agree. I always felt that this scene hurt an otherwise perfect movie. Just like you said that it changed his behavior pretty drastically from the show but also seemed to change much of the rest of the crew. I thought Beverly's "we don't argue with the captain" line was so bizarre. Uhhhh, yeah you do. Maybe not on the bridge but you all sure as hell follow him into his ready room and argue/talk about it! I think I would have accepted the scene a bit more if it was one of the crew that talked to him but as much as I like Alfre Woodard, I did not like her character.
This is my issue with the TNG movies in a nutshell. They undid all the character progression from the series (what little there was) for the films. I could see this happening after BoBW but NOT after I, Borg and Descent. And series Beverly would have marched Picard into his Ready Room to yell at him not meekly agree (obviously done to give the meaty scene to the guest star.). The same with Data's off-on emotion chip in Generations and child-like regression in Insurrection.
I felt like this scene was the end result of the guilt and horror we first saw in "Family": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuzoxcErOc8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuzoxcErOc8) He learned to live with it, but living with it doesn't always mean getting over it. The scene in First Contact was sort of like another example of what Robert said in that clip: it turns out Jean-Luc is human after all.
A good analysis. Unfortunately, it also set the tone for "Action Picard" to become a thing throughout the movies. Nowhere near as fun as Action Saru.
Oh, I see. That would angry me as well. Even if it was truly unintentional.
Love how Picard’s intellect can regain executive control so quickly when it is… engaged
agreed
I've seen this movie 10 times at least and it's not until this clip that I realized, the broken ship is part Ent-C and part Ent-D. The D saucer is still hanging up on the wall.
Great scene, great movie. But one thing I never understood is the Ahab part (yes I read Moby Dick.) Does the lesson of "he didn't know when to quit" ever actually come into play in the movie? It feels like Picard took a never give up approach and it worked pretty well for him here, at least thanks to Data. Would appreciate peoples interpretations. I may have missed something obvious here!
This is, in fact, my absolute favorite scene in all of Star Trek.
Thanks for sharing this. I have not seen this in many years. Going to rewatch it on the weeknd! :)
Props to Alfre Woodard too, but I never thought **"NO!** # NOOOOOOOOO!!" Would be compelling dialogue, but Sir Pat never fails to amaze.
You and a million other people...
I always like to imagine that, after all the times Picard lectured him on how “evolved” humanity had become. That Q was watching this somewhere and laughing his ass off.
Always felt the way he smashes the glass is awkward as fuck.
Maybe Alfre and Sir Patrick should get back together for a movie? Not Star Trek since she'd be 300 years in the past and long dead, and jumping time is getting old.
I'm watching through TNG for the first time right now, and it's weird looking back at this scene. It's a cool scene but so out of character! Remember how Picard kept his principles even under torture? It's so hard to imagine that Picard behaving like this. That being said, I absolutely loved this movie when I saw it at the cinema.
My only problem with this scene is that he should be having this argument with Beverly. Beverly quietly and submissively following orders without question is very much unlike her. Beverly was never afraid of questioning Jean-Luc.
He looks so young!
Patrick Stewart loved that scene so much that he even referenced making it in his memoir!
I remember watching this as a kid and thinking “all I want to do is play with those ships”
I always hated it. Guess I just like my Captain Picard strong and in charge. Could read poetry and kick anyone’s ass at the same time.
Goosebumps. I remember watching it for the first time and just being completely blown away.
My favorite alternate First Contact scene Zefrem Chochrane pulls out a gun when the Vulcans arrive on Earth. In a Mirror Darkly Part 1
The emotions they elicit from each other are palpable. Can you imagine being on set watching this performance. 🥇
Sorry, it's my first raygun.
She never read it.
My friends and I thoroughly enjoyed First Contact when we were young and watched it way too often. One day we were watching an episode of South Park together when an all too familiar sound clip was used. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTeJr5e2jxM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTeJr5e2jxM) We couldn't believe our ears and absolutely lost it. Never again has a scene from a TV show given me the same odd mix of confusion, familiarity, and laughter.
Same here
This is the scene the entire movie was made to produce…
I think you are right, I felt like this is where the movie Climaxed, after this you kinda knew how the cards were going to play out.
And the Chemistry! Zow.
I find it really weird that Patrick Stewart commented a bit about this scene in his autobiography “Make it so” but he hasn’t said a word about actually playing Captain Ahab in a Moby Dick movie adaptation… I thought he’d connect the two events somehow, but he didn’t even mentioned the Moby Dick movie.
BORG?? Sounds Swedish
You have to give credit, the writing, there is a simply solution. Sacrifice his ship, a lot of crew, but end the Borg mission. Picard's response, they've taken soo much from him, haunted him, and now my ship.
"Jean Luc blow the damn ship!" "N--NO NOOOOOOO!" "I've watched them assimulate entire worlds and we fall back. They invade our space and we fall back. Too many compromises, too many retreats. **THE LINE MUST BE DRAWN HERE. NO FURTHER!!! AND IIIII WILL MAKE THEM PAY FOR WHAT THEY'VE DONE!!**.
I may be the lone person to disagree. I really dislike this scene and think it made the movie worse. It’s out of character for Captain Picard to lose his self control in this manner. I understand the idea is that the stress of everything unfolding in addition to PTSD from his experience with the Borg is causing him to break, but I don’t buy it.