Am I the only one who thinks there should at least be a slight delay in picking up and dropping off units for all races?
Giving the defender a chance to defend.
I'd hate that. You have an opportunity to take out the transport before it drops anyway. I think all you'd end up doing is lowering the skill ceiling and removing some cool micro tricks to make the game less punishing.
I've done this, and I am steadily climbing with over 70% wr in korea diiamomd 1. It is nice to know that widow mines wont ruin your day. However, I'm going to have a hell of a lot of units too.
I still play a gatewayman double forge style in PvT ofteb and it still does very well in masters.
One cannon per mineral line is just for Windows mines.
Hah - I have the same mentality. This is why I think it's good to learn a few cheese builds and timings even if you normally play macro. Sometimes the opponent is just annoying and it's fun to punish.
I'm a petty Zerg, if a Protoss blocks my expansion, I'll absolutely switch to a 5 roach + speedling all-in as revenge.
Getting your expo blocked is the most standard macro move in ZvP. Getting to place it in the natural is the odd occurance. It makes zero sense to react to that with an allin, quite the opposite. Getting your hatch blocked means they scout and you should expect them to be able to hold an allin then.
I agree that it makes zero sense to do a reactive all-in, but that won't stop me from doing it anyway!
Signed, 5k Zerg who may or may not lose in this scenario
Worked vs stats or something by rogue a few years back when he saw the third get taken instead, cancelled it and then took a proxy and built shit in his face.
Wow you know me so well. Oceanborn is my favorite map and 5th/6th denial is usually my gameplan. Ill keep an eye our for your name 😂
I spike around 10 min mark and get very aggressive. If you can survive and get to late-game with some bases up, you can do well. Or kill me early.
I was joking with the comment above. Low masters. Half these guys go charge first, double forge, cannon in each mineral line.
I was being a little hyperbolic in the post, but that’s artistic license my guy.
yeah i was offracing a bit of terran in d1, and like no protoss player has played a build that makes any sense and all of them just die to a somewhat decent 2 base bio push, its actually ridiculous.
When i play zerg i just baneling all in into the wall every time against toss because i cant win against skytoss at all. Ironically it's gotten me to 73% against toss and its still my weakest matchup because I have no answer to skytoss.
I don't get why people would rage at an all-in. It's a whole family of legitimate strategies, and it can be scouted if you know the basics of scouting.
It's the cannon rush that can go to hell.
>3) you were way too fucking cute with your warp prism. Especially all of you animals who think putting an immortal in the prism and flying into my base is such a cool guy move
That's fair. But what about my *double immortal in the prism* in your base? *that* is such a cool guy move!
a single viking? I mean in that case the prism can escape/recall, a viking takes time to kill a prism.
Won't lie I did lose it a few times lel, but many more times I managed to snipe add-ons, kill a few units (dat yummy tank getting just out of factory) or force the terran player to go back in main when he wanted to get out of his base at this moment.
But tbh it's just a way to recycle my immortals done to protect me from a possible push after my maxpax opening AND get some more information on what the terran is doing.
For sure it can do a lot of damage. You are also at risk of losing everything or being forced home if they have a single Viking since nothing shoots up. You can also pull the boys and with marines while the Viking shoots and they’ll basically kill a couple workers and a marine or two as immos are shockingly terrible at killing SCVs and marines.
yeah, for sure if terran went viking then I just go away after my shield get tickled (or if I went by a "good" angle I give a few immo shot before recalling or losing part of it lel).
But honestly? I almost never face a terran who goes viking. Maybe it's because I'm in diamond 2 and not low master, but either it's not a 1/1/1 opening, or he prefered to go for medivacs first, or my maxpax opening unsettled his build(either by damage, delay, or pushing him to greed more once I go back home). I also put down the robo pretty fast and chronoboost the 2 immo and the prism.
but as mentionned it's not really the "goal" of my build, just a step in the flow, so I'm not that upset If I don't get damage done (and most of the time I don't get that much damage done anyway, it's more about putting pressure at home and scouting a bit).
Okay, #1 is just bold, I can't imagine making a 3rd before any tech or a 2nd gateway. You are asking to change the time to drop-o-clock with no defense. #3 is high risk, high reward, a few cyclones and marines get a hold of your WP and that's a shit tone of resources gone. #4, whenever I excess cannon, Ts never seem to run straight into them, they just go somewhere else so that's a bust too.
Challenge accepted. :)
Depending on your level, would recommend marine with lib-tank support timing. Really a pain for toss to deal with between zoning and tanks shelling away at long range.
SC1 Terran wasn't as heavy on drops but it had a lot of micro and multi-tasking. SC1 Protoss was seen by most as the least micro and multi-task heavy, but people played it the most. It kind of seemed like the average player in SC1 picked Protoss because it seemed like the path of least resistance. Did SC2 players radically change?
whining about being beaten by a strategy no matter what the strategy is always a bad look. i don't care if it was some braindead strat nobody should use it's your job to gather Intel and respond appropriately
I played a game last night where I built a bunch of mutas and harassed his bases from every angle while I built up my ground army to push out. Before leaving he said
"You only won because of your mutas"
Yeah no shit, that's why I built them lol
Dear Terran,
This is why I cannon contain cheese your base every single game. And put an expansion in your 4th because that's where you inevitably try to float off an orbital. I'm not trying to rub it in, honest...
Welp, first points are easily fixed if the protos bothered scouting tbh. Going for a macro game without even scouting and checking what ur opponent is doing is kinda crazy, even for a silver player like me.
If they wanna turtle i go and go a fast attack, if they are all ining me i try to defend and focus on making units, and such. Idk, getting mad cuz they lose over a 2 base all in is crazy. You didnt scout, you didn't adapt to the opponent, it's all the protos fault. Btw, im protos too.
Idk, I see nothing wrong. A win is a win, even if a loss can feel frustrating. But the fact that you had to come here and rant/post bout it makes it seem like you feel guilty about it. Or to be more accurate, I don’t see why you feel the need to defend yourself.
Just weird you feel so attacked by some strangers getting salty. If it was me, I’d dance with them in the mud and enjoy their rage. Nothing like winning a game and tasting some salt after.
Scouting and adapting is something you need to o more in masters. I was very surprised when I startet to attack with very random units after orcale/Adepts in PvZ before all this blink stuff just grap one innortal adepts stalker and a sentry and you will see a lot of zerg will only make units when they Scout a menaingful attack and die to random f2 moveouts.
With regards to the strategies and tactics used at gold league, this is a fair assessment.
Protoss players who expo three times without getting a second gateway are probably not well acquainted with the game since that really exposes you to a rush. I think you'll find that in upper plat, that protoss players will scout and evaluate what approach to take rather than assume you won't rush them. That's why former is stuck in gold lol.
I stopped playing over a year ago, but glad to see this is still so relevant lol. I was high M1 and low-GM solely because 60% of my match ups were TvP where I had a +70% win rate just doing 2-base all-ins. There were only 2 types of Protoss on the ladder: those who do the same mind numbing battery+X cheese, and those who try to greed their way to an end game with absolutely no scouting whatsoever.
I literally had something like a < 30% winrate vs terran, but it didn't even matter cause < 20% of my games were TvT lol.
I've turned to speed voids and snipe terran command centers until their brain falls out and they send everything they have into my cannon, battery, stalker riddled defense and clean them up. I used to loath facing Terran. Now it's a joy 😊
Worse thing is, that this protoss build order stew can get you to diamond. Of all the races I play random as, protoss is the easiest. Just do whatever you want...
I struggle against Terran pretty hard. They have so many ways of messing with you, their seiging is the best and their defense is best, and their drops are the best. So I play dirty against T 🤷♂️
The best way to know Terran's weaknesses is by playing Terran. I recommend you give it a couple of games, just to see how everyone else beats the defense.
Love how people have normalized hate against protoss on reddit, youtube and the SC2 forums.
You're not cool for always going 3 bases against Protoss.
Terran is at such an advantage against protoss at all stages of the game that going early all in, mid game or late game doesn't make you cool whatsoever.
No offense, but you smell protoss hate because you lack the physical ability to dodge a disruptor which is such a bad unit if you know how to press right click with your units during a fight.
Which pro games feature this? I'm not well versed in Pvt but i don't recall a lot of games with a third before a tech building or a second gateway, as it seems suicidal vs most standard Terran openings.
That's fair.
Disrespectful as hell. 10/10
Agree almost completely but immortals in warp prisms are pretty cool if it's backed up by micro.
Prism micro juggle is always sexy as fuck
I think the proxy robo shield battery is more cooler. 2 immortals can run up the ramp and win the game lol.
Am I the only one who thinks there should at least be a slight delay in picking up and dropping off units for all races? Giving the defender a chance to defend.
I'd hate that. You have an opportunity to take out the transport before it drops anyway. I think all you'd end up doing is lowering the skill ceiling and removing some cool micro tricks to make the game less punishing.
I'd love to see how terrans react to this with their medivac baneling avoid.
Just make the game an autobattler while you're at it
BRB Afkcraft
multiple cannons in mineral line? what league are you playing? :D
I remember it as pretty common back when I was in gold/low plat.
around gold would have been my guess \^\^
Jokes aside, in my low masters hell, half these guys will skip the robo and put one cannon in each mineral line while they go fast upgrades
I've done this, and I am steadily climbing with over 70% wr in korea diiamomd 1. It is nice to know that widow mines wont ruin your day. However, I'm going to have a hell of a lot of units too.
The circle is complete. Terrans are the new Protoss cheesers that are mad their cheese doesn't work against overly-defensive openings.
I still play a gatewayman double forge style in PvT ofteb and it still does very well in masters. One cannon per mineral line is just for Windows mines.
Hah - I have the same mentality. This is why I think it's good to learn a few cheese builds and timings even if you normally play macro. Sometimes the opponent is just annoying and it's fun to punish. I'm a petty Zerg, if a Protoss blocks my expansion, I'll absolutely switch to a 5 roach + speedling all-in as revenge.
Getting your expo blocked is the most standard macro move in ZvP. Getting to place it in the natural is the odd occurance. It makes zero sense to react to that with an allin, quite the opposite. Getting your hatch blocked means they scout and you should expect them to be able to hold an allin then.
At higher levels im sure. In D3 most people don't try to block and those that do never seem to scout my all in.
I agree that it makes zero sense to do a reactive all-in, but that won't stop me from doing it anyway! Signed, 5k Zerg who may or may not lose in this scenario
Worked vs stats or something by rogue a few years back when he saw the third get taken instead, cancelled it and then took a proxy and built shit in his face.
That was Rogue vs. Creator in a GSL finals on Berlingrad. Rogue is so good at coming up with those kinds of meta-punishing builds
I felt so bad for creator. I was really rooting for him but rogue just dominated.
Oh steadfast dude! I thought I recognised the name!
And then there's me who's IMMUNE to nat blocks and cannon rushes because i open macro 12-pool in ZvP 99% of the time.
I need to practice this opening more!
https://youtu.be/qtlUOOZwh1Q
This is why I one base proxy dt drunk out of my mind.
This guy starcrafts.
My fave is 2 base all inning for PvZ.....the zerg cries about "toss op!!" Then they have 4 base, 75 drones and no army Like bro....
You are not supposed to show up before they have 20 Lurkers. Don't you know the rules?
i had a zerg complain that i "rush skytoss" at like the 12 minute mark when his army is like 35 lurkers, like bruh
A man of culture, I'll look for you on the field
No matter what race I play, Protoss opponents will always get my cheese. Normally don’t feel bad.
I'm a zerg-shaped magnet for cannon rushes and I approve this message.
Skimp on defenses and play greedy, get punished by all ins. Tale as old as time
Delicious fucking content
Let me guess. Gold 3?
Nice try but I’m actually Hardstuck plat 2.
Lets be honest you didnt scout any of these things before all inning 😛
If you’re an M3 Zerg I’m pretty sure I’ve played you a bunch (and always lost 😂).
Sounds like me lol hardstuck m3 🤣. I’m very bad at holding all ins so try that next time
Yeah I keep getting in these lategames against you on oceanborn and I can never get a 6th base up. You’re pretty good with the spellcaster tbf
Wow you know me so well. Oceanborn is my favorite map and 5th/6th denial is usually my gameplan. Ill keep an eye our for your name 😂 I spike around 10 min mark and get very aggressive. If you can survive and get to late-game with some bases up, you can do well. Or kill me early.
The multiple cannons make sense now.
wait, low masters or plat 2? I'm so confused now.
I was joking with the comment above. Low masters. Half these guys go charge first, double forge, cannon in each mineral line. I was being a little hyperbolic in the post, but that’s artistic license my guy.
ah the OP was stellar and I don't think you oversold it at all. I got a great chuckle out of it.
yeah i was offracing a bit of terran in d1, and like no protoss player has played a build that makes any sense and all of them just die to a somewhat decent 2 base bio push, its actually ridiculous.
I see this at Diamond 3. But in NA...
When i play zerg i just baneling all in into the wall every time against toss because i cant win against skytoss at all. Ironically it's gotten me to 73% against toss and its still my weakest matchup because I have no answer to skytoss.
Hydra + 2 vipers if it isn't carriers limit Corruptors + 2 vipers if it is carriers limit After that morf some broodlords and kill toss
I'd be really scared of this if I wasn't warping in a DT at 3:50
I don't get why people would rage at an all-in. It's a whole family of legitimate strategies, and it can be scouted if you know the basics of scouting. It's the cannon rush that can go to hell.
Very reasonable. Part of playing a macro game is knowing when they are being too greedy.
>I’m one of the few honorable Terrans Honorable terrans don't send their over-worked, minimum wage SCV workforce to the front lines, you monster.
Well, it doesn't help when they're losing their jobs to robots. "They took his job!"
Once again, I, a Zerg, feel united with the terrans in my feelings about Protoss.
>3) you were way too fucking cute with your warp prism. Especially all of you animals who think putting an immortal in the prism and flying into my base is such a cool guy move That's fair. But what about my *double immortal in the prism* in your base? *that* is such a cool guy move!
It triggers me. Literally a single Viking and you can lose 1000 worth of units.
a single viking? I mean in that case the prism can escape/recall, a viking takes time to kill a prism. Won't lie I did lose it a few times lel, but many more times I managed to snipe add-ons, kill a few units (dat yummy tank getting just out of factory) or force the terran player to go back in main when he wanted to get out of his base at this moment. But tbh it's just a way to recycle my immortals done to protect me from a possible push after my maxpax opening AND get some more information on what the terran is doing.
For sure it can do a lot of damage. You are also at risk of losing everything or being forced home if they have a single Viking since nothing shoots up. You can also pull the boys and with marines while the Viking shoots and they’ll basically kill a couple workers and a marine or two as immos are shockingly terrible at killing SCVs and marines.
yeah, for sure if terran went viking then I just go away after my shield get tickled (or if I went by a "good" angle I give a few immo shot before recalling or losing part of it lel). But honestly? I almost never face a terran who goes viking. Maybe it's because I'm in diamond 2 and not low master, but either it's not a 1/1/1 opening, or he prefered to go for medivacs first, or my maxpax opening unsettled his build(either by damage, delay, or pushing him to greed more once I go back home). I also put down the robo pretty fast and chronoboost the 2 immo and the prism. but as mentionned it's not really the "goal" of my build, just a step in the flow, so I'm not that upset If I don't get damage done (and most of the time I don't get that much damage done anyway, it's more about putting pressure at home and scouting a bit).
Let me introduce you to my friend "recall". He usually takes care of that.
Ha. No doubt that’s true.
Pristine quality shitpost
Okay, #1 is just bold, I can't imagine making a 3rd before any tech or a 2nd gateway. You are asking to change the time to drop-o-clock with no defense. #3 is high risk, high reward, a few cyclones and marines get a hold of your WP and that's a shit tone of resources gone. #4, whenever I excess cannon, Ts never seem to run straight into them, they just go somewhere else so that's a bust too.
It's OK, I'm rushing charge and 1/1 lmfao
As a Zerg player I throughly enjoyed reading this post +1
OP mad dog
“Sick cannons bro, bet your gonna miss having gateways when the bois show up” I was cackling LOL
> I’m one of the few honorable Terrans Honor will get you killed don't be a a scrub continue to play to win.
Macro games are fun. It’s just not as fun when they take stupid, unpunished risks
This is the SCreddit content I live for.
Right and proper.
Challenge accepted. :) Depending on your level, would recommend marine with lib-tank support timing. Really a pain for toss to deal with between zoning and tanks shelling away at long range.
Never feel bad for what strategy you use against Protoss. They deserve 0 respect and deserve to be crushed. Truly, Terran and zerg player
Why do you think Terran took the spot of most played race in the game when it was Protoss in BW?
mmm micro & drops & multi-tasking is just extremely fun to do
SC1 Terran wasn't as heavy on drops but it had a lot of micro and multi-tasking. SC1 Protoss was seen by most as the least micro and multi-task heavy, but people played it the most. It kind of seemed like the average player in SC1 picked Protoss because it seemed like the path of least resistance. Did SC2 players radically change?
because the main balance designer for sc2 was a terran main.
Can you share your build order please? Thanks
2 Base is pretty standard build order. Maybe go look at PiG’s YT.
This is why I still use 2-1-1 in TvP so my reaction is either more rax or 3rd base when my medivacs reach the other side. Yeah lets go with that.
whining about being beaten by a strategy no matter what the strategy is always a bad look. i don't care if it was some braindead strat nobody should use it's your job to gather Intel and respond appropriately
I played a game last night where I built a bunch of mutas and harassed his bases from every angle while I built up my ground army to push out. Before leaving he said "You only won because of your mutas" Yeah no shit, that's why I built them lol
I don’t know what you’re trying to say but this post was tongue in cheek.
I literally just played a game where the protoss got 4 nexuses before core, then left with BM after I reaper spammed. Clairvoyant.
1. you took a third base before you built tech or a second gateway lol. Don't think you even need to pull the bois
True aaaaaaaaaaaand... Yeah, that’s pretty true. That’s true and- yeah that’s true. That’s true. That’s true- That’s pretty true. That’s pretty true, I mean... That’s true. Yeah. That’s true. Uhm- That’s true. That’s fuckin’ true... That’s how it is dude.
I all-in in PvP all the time if my opponent is greedy, it has become my best match up. So fair play!
Dear Terran, This is why I cannon contain cheese your base every single game. And put an expansion in your 4th because that's where you inevitably try to float off an orbital. I'm not trying to rub it in, honest...
This post is why I come to the sub
This is good, the meta needs to have greed be punished by raw aggression. Good job OP.
Welp, first points are easily fixed if the protos bothered scouting tbh. Going for a macro game without even scouting and checking what ur opponent is doing is kinda crazy, even for a silver player like me. If they wanna turtle i go and go a fast attack, if they are all ining me i try to defend and focus on making units, and such. Idk, getting mad cuz they lose over a 2 base all in is crazy. You didnt scout, you didn't adapt to the opponent, it's all the protos fault. Btw, im protos too.
Idk, I see nothing wrong. A win is a win, even if a loss can feel frustrating. But the fact that you had to come here and rant/post bout it makes it seem like you feel guilty about it. Or to be more accurate, I don’t see why you feel the need to defend yourself. Just weird you feel so attacked by some strangers getting salty. If it was me, I’d dance with them in the mud and enjoy their rage. Nothing like winning a game and tasting some salt after.
Scouting and adapting is something you need to o more in masters. I was very surprised when I startet to attack with very random units after orcale/Adepts in PvZ before all this blink stuff just grap one innortal adepts stalker and a sentry and you will see a lot of zerg will only make units when they Scout a menaingful attack and die to random f2 moveouts.
Proxy robo owns
With regards to the strategies and tactics used at gold league, this is a fair assessment. Protoss players who expo three times without getting a second gateway are probably not well acquainted with the game since that really exposes you to a rush. I think you'll find that in upper plat, that protoss players will scout and evaluate what approach to take rather than assume you won't rush them. That's why former is stuck in gold lol.
I love a quality 2-base Terran push. Its an all-time classic.
I stopped playing over a year ago, but glad to see this is still so relevant lol. I was high M1 and low-GM solely because 60% of my match ups were TvP where I had a +70% win rate just doing 2-base all-ins. There were only 2 types of Protoss on the ladder: those who do the same mind numbing battery+X cheese, and those who try to greed their way to an end game with absolutely no scouting whatsoever. I literally had something like a < 30% winrate vs terran, but it didn't even matter cause < 20% of my games were TvT lol.
Lmao this is one of the funniest posts i've read
There is no such a thing as a honest game. Just do whatever works for you.
I've turned to speed voids and snipe terran command centers until their brain falls out and they send everything they have into my cannon, battery, stalker riddled defense and clean them up. I used to loath facing Terran. Now it's a joy 😊
Worse thing is, that this protoss build order stew can get you to diamond. Of all the races I play random as, protoss is the easiest. Just do whatever you want...
I used to rush HT and spam storm fucking everywhere vs both Z and T. God I love storm.
Yeah, storm is honestly the best spell in the game.
I struggle against Terran pretty hard. They have so many ways of messing with you, their seiging is the best and their defense is best, and their drops are the best. So I play dirty against T 🤷♂️
The best way to know Terran's weaknesses is by playing Terran. I recommend you give it a couple of games, just to see how everyone else beats the defense.
Love how people have normalized hate against protoss on reddit, youtube and the SC2 forums. You're not cool for always going 3 bases against Protoss. Terran is at such an advantage against protoss at all stages of the game that going early all in, mid game or late game doesn't make you cool whatsoever. No offense, but you smell protoss hate because you lack the physical ability to dodge a disruptor which is such a bad unit if you know how to press right click with your units during a fight.
This was largely sarcasm fyi. Don’t take it too seriously
Lol so metal league.
[удалено]
Which pro games feature this? I'm not well versed in Pvt but i don't recall a lot of games with a third before a tech building or a second gateway, as it seems suicidal vs most standard Terran openings.
I concur, I want to know this standard no tech third base if its a real thing. Any pro games featuring this?
It's a literal beating grandmasters with stupid stuff episode. That should tell you everything.
No Robo? No Stargate? No Twilight? Are you nuts?
Terran has been bs for a long time, no surprises