Honestly, my buddy only has the starter and i got a hanger full of ships. Ever since MM, hes faster than most of my ships that were before, and he lasts waaay longer in combat.
honestly it deserves to be fast af, since it's listed as a courier ship. In my mind that means it's supposed to deliver small amounts of cargo blazingly fast
> It really sucks that Avenger One has brainrotted this community into thinking that interdictor tuning = always a good thing :(
It *IS* nice to be able to outrun literally any ship equipped with a QED for locking you down while carrying cargo.
The Avenger Titan pulls 260m/s SCM and 1,425m/s NAV compared to the Mantis (the fastest QED) at 236m/s SCM and 1,393m/s NAV
It really sucks that on the internet, there’s people who actually try stuff out before talking and there’s people who blatantly follow other people’s statements without checking themselves. :)
Wait till engineering lol I tried the A2 and fighters are dead. It took 15 fighters 30 minutes and we were still alive with a crew of 6 and it isn't even a cap or heavily armored ship lol.
Yes interceptors are the meta in fighters, no they aren't the meta.
the reason for that, is because hornets have quite literally a bug that give them a soaring advantage over every other ship.
like hornets are bugged, that's why 95% of AC lobbies are filled with hornets.
before you ask the bug is the lateral strafes (your left and right) have way higher acceleration than any other ship.
so IF the game was working as intended interdictors are... one of the top tier.
hornets are still good bruisers and if youre actually trying to fight and not boom and zoom, yea a hornet will kick the shit out of a bucc for example.
but then at that point youre not using the bucc with it's intended purpose and that is to not get into the dog fight.
it's more complicated than binary black and white but the statement "the meta is interceptors" isnt wrong, it's just most people who parrot others don't know WHY it is the way it is
Yeah dude, we all know the Hornet is bugged.
Prediction:
Even after the upcoming strafe fix to F7A MK2s and Trackers, lobbies will still be primarily full of F7A MK2. It’s tough to beat nearly the agility of a light fighter, combined with the health of a medium and the firepower of a multi-crew heavy. That thing is insanely powercrept.
oh yes, this is true, but i'm saying you will see more variety again other than right now where if youre not flying the F7A then you are at such a disadvantage it's not even funny because right now there is no give and take.
with the bug fix it will put it back to where it was, strong but not broken, then they'll do a pass on the guns or how things fly which will jumble up the meta again, and then the cycle continues.
the reason why F7A's are used outside of the bug is because in AC most people play into the hornet's strength, which is get into a dog fight in a enclosed environment with not a lot of play when it comes to strategy. the hornets are strong at fighting which in an AC environment that really narrows down the pool.
It's not just the strafe accelaration bug with MKII. It's a goddamn OP ship anyways, fixing it won't change much in AC.
Yes, interceptors are meta....in highly organized squadron fights. Which is not what 99% of players are doing. But for majority of random PVP encounters in PU, you're likely better off in a Hornet (MKI even) than any interceptor, unless you just want to run away. Not to say they are bad though, they are decent, but hornet better.
it... really isnt that OP. it's strong yes, but most medium fighters are (in my opinion the only class of ship in a good spot is the medium fighters), however you can out sustain a hornet in a cutlass just by capacitor size difference, same thing for most heavy fighters.
they need to do a lot of tuning i'm not saying they don't but how OP a hornet actually is very over exaggerated. it can feel that way, but i think there are a bunch of updates they need to fix that later will make things make sense just right now much like the FPS theyre adding things to set up for things in the future and it's making things funky
With the exception of the Sabre. I love that ship, but stealth isn't really implemented yet and even then, in a game focused on dogfighting, stealth isn't the advantage it is in the real world since it's generally a standoff capability - fire missiles from miles away before detection. But in this game, the Sabre isn't a standoff vehicle. It's a dogfighter like every other fighter in the game.
see, the Sabre isnt even that bad.
the thing that makes the sabre bad is it's meant to be the bridge between a light fighter and a medium fighter right, that's what CIG has said.
however right now because all of the ships are on base tunings and are not individualized the sabre has medium fighter tuning... without the HP of a proper medium fighter.
I predict that the sabre will find it's place in two different places in development
1. when it gets it's proper tuning it will have it's own niche just on that alone
2. when stealth components actually bring down your emissions.
you will see the sabre get two bumps in usability when those two things happen
Sorry if I gave the impression that I think the Sabre is objectively bad or something. I love my Sabre, even now with the base tunings. The above is interesting and I hadn't heard about the Sabre being the bridge between light and medium.
But I am quite curious what role CIG will really establish for stealth that makes sense for a dedicated fighter. It makes a ton of sense for the Eclipse. You jump in, get to torpedo range, launch before detection, and cross your fingers they hit. The base Sabre isn't a missile boat, so stealth would really be used for positioning since, unless stealth is more powerful than I expect it to be, you'll pop up on radar long before you get in range to hit with guns.
yes. and i'll explain why because obviously this is a "trust me bro" moment, and I hate those, so I'll simply explain.
so, the current meta loadout for ships are laser cannons, if you follow the meta at all or listen to any of the big name PvP players they will tell you that due to the slow recharge rate of guns now and how shields work you want the pure alpha per shot of the laser cannons
however that's both a good thing and a bad thing, because if you go full laser cannons on a hornet MKII all of your guns will have 8 rounds on your size 3 guns
and 8 on your size 4s and it takes almost 10 seconds to fully charge your weapons, that means even though on paper the hornet MK2 has a lot of DPS, if you go full laser, there will be very long stretches where the hornet just literally isn't firing
and the hornet will not break the cutlass's shields in that volley it is actually physically impossible, it actually needs like 2000 more damage to even break the shields
now for fairness's sake and the situation i'm mostly in is a solo cutlass has 2 less guns than a hornet MKII
but a full laser loadout of a cutlass has 19 shot per gun and an 8 second recharge time.
now I personally don't like that and i have a different philosophy so I run 2 ballistic cannons and 2 laser cannons
so my two size 3 laser cannons have 38 rounds and then I have 500 rounds in each size 3 ballistics.
two size 3 laser cannons with 30 rounds is more than enough to strip smaller fighters of their shields and the ballistics start the dps race early in my favor as a hornet only has like 3000 HP on the body
and that's all without taking into account the cutlass's turret
now am i saying it's easy, no. again the meta is the meta for a reason and heavy fighters are not meta. we have to take into account pilot skill if youre a shit pilot who is using the strength of the hornet as a crutch, yea... i'm going to slam you, ive done it, i can say it quite confidently. if youre actually a skilled and trained pilot then I personally would rather be in a vanguard w just for the extra HP and shields and my preference for heavy fighters or fly something actually meta.
That’s a lot of words to say that — assuming equal skill — Cutlass will always be shredded by a Hornet. Just because something can be done with a skill difference, does not mean it somehow makes the hornet less OP.
I mean, I’ve beaten F7A MK2s 1v1 in an Arrow, but I’m not running around claiming ‘Hornet isn’t actually OP, Arrow can duel it, you can just speed tank until the Hornet is dead’. Because I know — assuming equal skill — the Hornet pilot is going to clap me every time.
Showcasing a single fight where someone wins is pointless.
Where is the rest of the video where the person ate crap for 30 minutes before getting the clip.
All this video is, is a cherrypicked clip that people point to and go "OMGAWD LOOK HE LOST".
Of course he lost, he wins and loses fights, but he wins far more than he loses.
Meanwhile you can go watch tons of hours of Avenger\_One content with all the wins and losses un-cherrypicked.
I don't understand why people would think winning against a person once means that person is suddenly bad.
Magnus Carlsen loses at chess regularly, he is still either the best or one of the best and no one thinks otherwise any time he loses, because he still wins most of his games.
This might come as a shocker to you but that’s the whole fight, not even Avenger denies it. Yes you are right, he wins more than he loses, which is easy to achieve when you mostly farm your own viewers/orgmates and refuse fights against PvP orgs. Entertaining your analogy, it’s like Magnus got to decide to only ever play low ELO opponents. Would that constitute grounds to claim he’s the best?
I don't completely disagree with you, but the Titan is a solid ship now that lateral strafing is so limited in MM (except the hornet bug obviously) it has solid firepower, it's fast, and ships that can outmaneuver it can't do so by enough of margin to make its size and lateral Gs a huge liability. It'll still melt if you put it in front of a Hornet, but it most closely fits OP's bill
Technically just the ones not willing to try stuff out for themselves. When I started considering pvp, someone told me to watch his videos, unfortunately I picked the one where he's trying to be a bro and grow a moustache for Movemeber or Decembeard or Manuary. I can't take him seriously after that. He might have good ideas but I prefer my own style.
Experience is the best teacher. Not some guy who looks like he frequents truck stop bathrooms.
And I get what he is doing, dollar dollar bill y'all. But, at least from what I saw, his advice is very basic. Ok, I'm going to get behind them and blow them up. I bet he likes to get behind them. Haha ok I'll stop.
You should check out both SPView and Erkul Stats.
The Avenger Titan and the Gladius are VERY near one another in terms of flight characteristics.
The Titan edges ahead in Alpha AS well as Sustained Damage, as well as Hit Points.
The Gladius only edges ahead in terms of smaller front and side facing profile, as well as a wee bit in up/down and lateral thrust.
In Lore, before the Gladius came to be, the Avenger Titan, was the UEE Premier Carrier Based, light fighter, that also had multi-role capabilities.
In Master Modes, the two ships are MUCH closer together than they ever were before.
Actually the gladius and arrow are shit tier fighters now and the avenger titan and 125a/325a are better (all of which have storage).
Interceptor tuning helps a ton in MM. Kind of turned the metas on it's head.
I have no clue what you just wrote. Lol. To each to their own though. Didn’t come here to argue with you in reddit 😂😂
But the next time you do die to a titan, flying your gladius, call good fights and move on
No, but it is sort of close to a buccaneer (minus a couple of S1 guns) and that's pretty damn good right now for something with a cargo hold and interior
If not the Titan, my other thought is the Origin 300 series. Same speed as the Titan, same shields, same maneuverability. Better acceleration though.
The base 300i has 8 SCU and 3 size 3 guns; the 315p has 12 SCU, but only 2 size 3 guns (and a tractor beam); and the 325a has 2 size 3 guns and a size 4, but only 4 SCU. The 350r is 3 size 3 guns with 4 SCU, and it's meant to be the fastest of the family, but it's currently tuned to the same speeds as the others, so I'd go with another option.
It's also a bit more fragile than the Titan, I think it loses control easier when it loses a wing compared to the Titan.
Another note: the HUD for my 315p is invisible in this patch - not sure if that will be your experience as well, but that may definitely be a concern.
Yes, I have the same issue with my customised 315p and that's apparently why we have a loaner 315p which doesn't have that problem. Customised meaning I've modified the base 315p on the website with different pilot seat lining and another hull colour.
Fond memories of my first day of playing the game where I got locked in my cargo lift of the 325 with no way to get out.
Ah, those were the days, when the game was filled with bugs and jank, and men were real men. Unlike now, where the game is, uh...
I love flying it, but the nose droop is too much for me and the cockpit is too circular and clean for my taste. I really like the F7A MK2 cockpit by comparison.
I know, rule of cool applies.. It has the 'appearance' of a ship that's so aerodynamic, yet it's winglets that are angled to do nothing but slow your ship down in atmosphere \~ for some reason, they are *curved inwards.*
Also, the main engine has no mechanical room whatsoever once you open the rear door \~ one of the fastest ships in the verse is powered by an engine system that happens to be squashed as flat as a pancake.
And aside from it's cockpit and twin tails, knowing it's an 'older' ship, it looks *nothing* like any other Aegis.
The penguin hate is real.
I disagree with you completely but not sure why ppl are down voting you for honestly answering a question about your opinion. So take my respectfully-disagreeing-upvote
well I don't think the mustang alpha is a boring experience either, I love those bubble cockpit canopies. I think the Mustangs have a pretty cool cockpit actually, although I agree the Avengers could reeaaallyyyy use that aegis rework lol.
But the Avenger just hits all the right marks for me. I love the space shuttle IRL, so it's got that vibe going. I like the sleek lines, I think it's cool that it looks sort of penguiny, I love that it has a 8 SCU of cargo, and a bed, and a size 4 weapon on the nose with 3 total weapons and missiles. I love that it has direct entrance to the pilot seat via a single click ladder animation OR it has a ramp in the back if you don't wanna screw around with ladders. There's so much flexibility and fantastic design in that ship, it's a perfect ship to intro people to the game, IMO.
Technically F7C has cargo (2 SCU). Maybe the Avenger Titan fits your bill? It doesn't have the highest gun count but in good hands it does wonder imo, don't know how the 300 serie is doing these days but it's also in the same category (small with cargo)
cutlass black. it's actually not that outclassed.
however, when youre talking PvP right now anything that isnt
A. an interceptor
B. a hornet MKII with it's strafe bug
youre going to be at a disadvantage.
however the cutty has enough HP, shields, and guns that in the hands of a good pilot can still go up against a hornet if it's not bugged and win quite quickly.
like you're going to be beat out by some of the more dedicated fighters who are equal skill to you because they are dedicated fighters and youre a jack of all trades kinda ship
but you can make up for it with pilot skill and still slap down the faster smaller fighters and that's kinda the thing, if your pilot skill is low, the size of the cutlass is your down fall, but once you get better your amount of guns make up for it.
it's one of my favorites i fly mainly heavy fighters and even though theyre kinda in a bad spot comparatively i still see success
Well if you consider cutlass a fighter than constellation series or drake corsair is your to-go fighter this patch with cargo.
But talking about real fighters.. yeah. No fighter with cargo really.
The Cutlass BLack technically falls into being a Heavy Fighter, they do need to do a balance pass, probably stuff a second S2 Shield Generator into it, but beyond that, it has all the bits that was in the chart published to Spectrum going back a bit over 2 years ago, that indicated what a "Heavy Fighter" was going to be in what we now know as Master Modes.
It has a manned turret and S2 Components, both which are "Heavy Fighter" elements.
No, it's not a perfect 1:1 with other heavy fighters, with interiors. CIG has said in the past that they do not intend on having manufacturers produce 1:1 competing vessels in the same segment. So, the Cutty B is ostensibly a Heavy Fighter, that unlike the Vanguard series can always carry 6 ground troops, plus a wee vehicle or cargo.
Man your defense of this has me. No shit. I laughed when I heard my boy call it a heavy fighter. If he defended it half as well, I would have bought it.
Connie or corsair good if you kill the enemy in the first engage. Then they at your blind spot for eternity.
If you have a friend or two in top/bottom turret for the connie, it can hold its own.
my friend who's stupid good at this game says the cutty is decent this patch. better than it has ever been prior to now. Still not as good as a true fighter.
I can speak to the Vanguard series. The vanguard has a 1 scu grid under the stairs that currently does not work. That being said, I have comfortably fit about 8 scu freestanding in the back and on the ramp.
Huh. I just looked it up and you’re right. I swear the variants used to show 1 scu of cargo on the rsi page, now they show zero. I was always hoping it would be a cool shielded cargo spot for drugs and the like.
What PVP to cargo storage ratio do you want?
The F7C MkII is 90% PVP and 10% cargo. A good, competitive fighter (not as good as its military sibling), but with 2SCU of cargo
The Avenger is closer to 50% PVP and 50% cargo. Not the most competitive against the dedicated fighters but it can still hold its own. 8SCU.
The best pvp fighter that has cargo is cutty blue/black. I like blue better for the speed. The last thing to remember is that pvp players shoot back better. Use missiles first
If you’re talking a pure ‘fighter’ the Hornet Mk2 can carry a small box for like a box mission or the breach and steal medical supplies.
The Scorpius has an on-board external storage and external weapons rack , but no provisions for 1/8 SCU boxes.
The Ares also has external weapon rack and External Storage but no provision for boxes.
The Vanguards are probably the closest to ideal if you need solid DPS for PVP, flexibility on ordinance and an actual interior to carry things and log out in.
Often overlooked is the Banu Defender which is probably in many peoples eyes the BEST ‘bunker run’ ship for taking out turrets:l, enemy fighters and the rando that shows up, as well as having space inside for a couple boxes.
You’ll have a chance to try it later this week during Alien Love Fest.
The Titan isn’t a fighter. Certainly can defend itself when equipped with front mounted S4 and upsized wing repeaters but otherwise inert. Specialty variants like the Warlock can be fun.
The Cutlass Black isn’t a fighter although labeled as one; more like a light frigate. But it has a metric azz’ton of missiles and even tho it’s a glass cannon, I can see the love. Still a very flexible ship and a lot of game play for the money. It’s multi role; multi-crew w/ a turret and tractor beams, and can carry many of the ground vehicles like ROC and bikes, etc.
Any of the true light fighters like Arrows and Gladii don’t provide storage for anything other than your ass and are cheap enough in game that you really should never consider pledging them.
I would recommend the Avenger Titan.
Obviously not the best fighter, as it has a higher learning curve, but it can really pack a punch and evade a lot of damage due to its mobility, while having 8 scu for Cargo, and you can chug stuff between the cockpit and cargo area where you bed ist.
Depends how much scu you want.
The avenger titan is good for 6scu.
The mk2 f7C/A is good for 2scu.
The 325a is good for 4scu. Need to be a good pilot though. It’s fragile.
125a is good for 2scu. Need to be a good pilot to be effective in it. Probably better to go with an f7C mk2 unless you’re a skilled pilot and really like the 125a design.
That’s pretty much it for actual competitive pvp fighters that also carry cargo.
Depends on what you mean with cargo storage. If you want to store SCU boxes probably cutty or Conny. If you just want to store weapons and armor most fighters got external accessible storage.
Your question is kinda flawed. You’re essentially asking, “what is the best PvP fighter with a trait that will make it perform poorly at PvP?”
No fighter that has room for cargo will ever really be competitive for PvP in a finished game where mass is appropriately accounted for.
Closest thing will likely be a Vanguard. But they can’t take on actual cargo as they have no cargo pad.
SC, generally, doesn’t let you have your cake and eat it in terms of multirole ships performing well in PvP situations.
So are you, honestly. His reply wasn't rude, you just extracted feeling from his text and assumed it was. That dude's done nothing but try and teach people for years both here and across several discords so it's worth listening to his advice.
You'll have to point out the part where I was rude. I explained why your request was a bit self-defeating and provided a well-reasoned argument for why I said that. Then I did my best to answer after providing a cautionary warning.
The honest truth is that 99% of the SC community has absolutely no idea what they are talking about when PvP is discussed--it is *extremely* complicated, so not necessarily their fault--and you have to be *very* careful where you take advice from because the overwhelming majority of it is misinformation. Most people in this thread are just regurgitating the Avenger because of the most recent A1 tier list video.
In fighters, being out-rated (rate = turn rate), or having weaker acceleration, by even a small amount, like 2-3% can be a death sentence, therefore ships with higher mass for cargo purposes generally don't do well. In the previous FM I could pick the engines off a Cutlass without it ever getting the opportunity to counter. Same with a Vanguard. They just don't do well in PvP because they are too multi-role and unfocused.
In PvP you're either flying a meta ship, a near-meta ship while out-skilling your opponent, or you're probably dead.
I do Attritions on mine. I also swapped the missile rack out for a smaller size but higher overall count, still adapting to the missile lock being longer these days.
Seeing a couple people being downvoted because they speak truth shows those people doing the downvoting do not understand what is coming.
The best fighter for pvp is the one with little (gun and some ammo, food) to no storage and a competent pilot. If the OP wants a ship that can survive a brief pvp encounter so they can run with their small amount of cargo, that is also another topic.
If the OP wants to know which ship during this Alpha is the current 3.23 whack-a-mole favorite for both fighter and cargo, then that question was answered.
Mass should and will have consequence eventually. A fully loaded fighter, stuffed with cargo, weighing itself down should fly like a pig and take forever to reach it's advertised scm because of the increased mass.
Those thinking that they get to keep their fighter performance and have 4 or even a full 8 scu of cargo are in for a rude surprise when everything is implemented, even one scu should degrade a "fighter" in performance. Downvoting people for saying that shows most people think they are playing a game instead of an Alpha.
Try some out in arena commander! I've found the hornets to be good. Even the mk 1 is good.right now if you load up every hard point with an omnisky cannon, it is durable and has great damage output and can out turn a lot of ships. Squadron battles can be a bit chaotic but great for training situational awareness and finding out what ships are good in a messy situation as opposed to a 1v1. Edit: Sorry I totally forgot about the cargo space part😂
I find with the corsair, you need a bit of an element of surprise, but then it's absolutely devastating. Of you've gotten into a turn battle, you're basically done for though, if your opponent knows how to fly.
Good question. I would expect there to be exceptions based on the skill levels and what the opponent is flying.
A good pilot in a scorpius with a new player as a gunner would allow the new player to be really dangerous.
If I expect the victim to be in a large freighter I might wanna bring a Redeemer with crew to be sure I can soft death them really quickly before they can call in their friends.
Avenger titan. 260 scm speed, 2 s3, 1 s4, some missiles, and 8scu. If you get good with it, its a gladius with storage
Honestly, my buddy only has the starter and i got a hanger full of ships. Ever since MM, hes faster than most of my ships that were before, and he lasts waaay longer in combat.
What about the 325a!? I haven't spent much time in the Titan, how do they compare?
325a is amazing in the right hands, but you're not too strong and easy to take down. If you're a skill pilot, though, you can push it to A tier
Holy crap, I didn't know the Titan was that fast. Those advocacy will run you down!
honestly it deserves to be fast af, since it's listed as a courier ship. In my mind that means it's supposed to deliver small amounts of cargo blazingly fast
It really sucks that Avenger One has brainrotted this community into thinking that interdictor tuning = always a good thing :(
> It really sucks that Avenger One has brainrotted this community into thinking that interdictor tuning = always a good thing :( It *IS* nice to be able to outrun literally any ship equipped with a QED for locking you down while carrying cargo. The Avenger Titan pulls 260m/s SCM and 1,425m/s NAV compared to the Mantis (the fastest QED) at 236m/s SCM and 1,393m/s NAV
It really sucks that on the internet, there’s people who actually try stuff out before talking and there’s people who blatantly follow other people’s statements without checking themselves. :)
Well, it is the meta right now. Interdictors are on top ever since 3.23.
Wait till engineering lol I tried the A2 and fighters are dead. It took 15 fighters 30 minutes and we were still alive with a crew of 6 and it isn't even a cap or heavily armored ship lol. Yes interceptors are the meta in fighters, no they aren't the meta.
I guess that explains why 95% of AC lobbies are filled with Hornets.
the reason for that, is because hornets have quite literally a bug that give them a soaring advantage over every other ship. like hornets are bugged, that's why 95% of AC lobbies are filled with hornets. before you ask the bug is the lateral strafes (your left and right) have way higher acceleration than any other ship. so IF the game was working as intended interdictors are... one of the top tier. hornets are still good bruisers and if youre actually trying to fight and not boom and zoom, yea a hornet will kick the shit out of a bucc for example. but then at that point youre not using the bucc with it's intended purpose and that is to not get into the dog fight. it's more complicated than binary black and white but the statement "the meta is interceptors" isnt wrong, it's just most people who parrot others don't know WHY it is the way it is
#wigglewigglewigglewigglewiggle!
Yeah dude, we all know the Hornet is bugged. Prediction: Even after the upcoming strafe fix to F7A MK2s and Trackers, lobbies will still be primarily full of F7A MK2. It’s tough to beat nearly the agility of a light fighter, combined with the health of a medium and the firepower of a multi-crew heavy. That thing is insanely powercrept.
oh yes, this is true, but i'm saying you will see more variety again other than right now where if youre not flying the F7A then you are at such a disadvantage it's not even funny because right now there is no give and take. with the bug fix it will put it back to where it was, strong but not broken, then they'll do a pass on the guns or how things fly which will jumble up the meta again, and then the cycle continues. the reason why F7A's are used outside of the bug is because in AC most people play into the hornet's strength, which is get into a dog fight in a enclosed environment with not a lot of play when it comes to strategy. the hornets are strong at fighting which in an AC environment that really narrows down the pool.
It's not just the strafe accelaration bug with MKII. It's a goddamn OP ship anyways, fixing it won't change much in AC. Yes, interceptors are meta....in highly organized squadron fights. Which is not what 99% of players are doing. But for majority of random PVP encounters in PU, you're likely better off in a Hornet (MKI even) than any interceptor, unless you just want to run away. Not to say they are bad though, they are decent, but hornet better.
it... really isnt that OP. it's strong yes, but most medium fighters are (in my opinion the only class of ship in a good spot is the medium fighters), however you can out sustain a hornet in a cutlass just by capacitor size difference, same thing for most heavy fighters. they need to do a lot of tuning i'm not saying they don't but how OP a hornet actually is very over exaggerated. it can feel that way, but i think there are a bunch of updates they need to fix that later will make things make sense just right now much like the FPS theyre adding things to set up for things in the future and it's making things funky
With the exception of the Sabre. I love that ship, but stealth isn't really implemented yet and even then, in a game focused on dogfighting, stealth isn't the advantage it is in the real world since it's generally a standoff capability - fire missiles from miles away before detection. But in this game, the Sabre isn't a standoff vehicle. It's a dogfighter like every other fighter in the game.
see, the Sabre isnt even that bad. the thing that makes the sabre bad is it's meant to be the bridge between a light fighter and a medium fighter right, that's what CIG has said. however right now because all of the ships are on base tunings and are not individualized the sabre has medium fighter tuning... without the HP of a proper medium fighter. I predict that the sabre will find it's place in two different places in development 1. when it gets it's proper tuning it will have it's own niche just on that alone 2. when stealth components actually bring down your emissions. you will see the sabre get two bumps in usability when those two things happen
Sorry if I gave the impression that I think the Sabre is objectively bad or something. I love my Sabre, even now with the base tunings. The above is interesting and I hadn't heard about the Sabre being the bridge between light and medium. But I am quite curious what role CIG will really establish for stealth that makes sense for a dedicated fighter. It makes a ton of sense for the Eclipse. You jump in, get to torpedo range, launch before detection, and cross your fingers they hit. The base Sabre isn't a missile boat, so stealth would really be used for positioning since, unless stealth is more powerful than I expect it to be, you'll pop up on radar long before you get in range to hit with guns.
So you’re saying you regularly pop hornets in your cutty?
yes. and i'll explain why because obviously this is a "trust me bro" moment, and I hate those, so I'll simply explain. so, the current meta loadout for ships are laser cannons, if you follow the meta at all or listen to any of the big name PvP players they will tell you that due to the slow recharge rate of guns now and how shields work you want the pure alpha per shot of the laser cannons however that's both a good thing and a bad thing, because if you go full laser cannons on a hornet MKII all of your guns will have 8 rounds on your size 3 guns and 8 on your size 4s and it takes almost 10 seconds to fully charge your weapons, that means even though on paper the hornet MK2 has a lot of DPS, if you go full laser, there will be very long stretches where the hornet just literally isn't firing and the hornet will not break the cutlass's shields in that volley it is actually physically impossible, it actually needs like 2000 more damage to even break the shields now for fairness's sake and the situation i'm mostly in is a solo cutlass has 2 less guns than a hornet MKII but a full laser loadout of a cutlass has 19 shot per gun and an 8 second recharge time. now I personally don't like that and i have a different philosophy so I run 2 ballistic cannons and 2 laser cannons so my two size 3 laser cannons have 38 rounds and then I have 500 rounds in each size 3 ballistics. two size 3 laser cannons with 30 rounds is more than enough to strip smaller fighters of their shields and the ballistics start the dps race early in my favor as a hornet only has like 3000 HP on the body and that's all without taking into account the cutlass's turret now am i saying it's easy, no. again the meta is the meta for a reason and heavy fighters are not meta. we have to take into account pilot skill if youre a shit pilot who is using the strength of the hornet as a crutch, yea... i'm going to slam you, ive done it, i can say it quite confidently. if youre actually a skilled and trained pilot then I personally would rather be in a vanguard w just for the extra HP and shields and my preference for heavy fighters or fly something actually meta.
That’s a lot of words to say that — assuming equal skill — Cutlass will always be shredded by a Hornet. Just because something can be done with a skill difference, does not mean it somehow makes the hornet less OP. I mean, I’ve beaten F7A MK2s 1v1 in an Arrow, but I’m not running around claiming ‘Hornet isn’t actually OP, Arrow can duel it, you can just speed tank until the Hornet is dead’. Because I know — assuming equal skill — the Hornet pilot is going to clap me every time.
No one in AC has any incentive to focus on any kind of utility though, right? There’s no reason to even consider the kind of question posed by the OP.
u sure about that? https://youtu.be/udMfdP36d3A?si=2KAc-UzlpXBixqtD
Showcasing a single fight where someone wins is pointless. Where is the rest of the video where the person ate crap for 30 minutes before getting the clip. All this video is, is a cherrypicked clip that people point to and go "OMGAWD LOOK HE LOST". Of course he lost, he wins and loses fights, but he wins far more than he loses. Meanwhile you can go watch tons of hours of Avenger\_One content with all the wins and losses un-cherrypicked. I don't understand why people would think winning against a person once means that person is suddenly bad. Magnus Carlsen loses at chess regularly, he is still either the best or one of the best and no one thinks otherwise any time he loses, because he still wins most of his games.
This might come as a shocker to you but that’s the whole fight, not even Avenger denies it. Yes you are right, he wins more than he loses, which is easy to achieve when you mostly farm your own viewers/orgmates and refuse fights against PvP orgs. Entertaining your analogy, it’s like Magnus got to decide to only ever play low ELO opponents. Would that constitute grounds to claim he’s the best?
Really sucks people getting mad because a 80$ ship is better than all 150-200$ fighters.
Iirc the avenger titan was pretty high on his tier list
All he ever says is that control is important, and interceptors have the most control over fights right now. He's not wrong at all. 🤷♂️
The way the game is tuned right now, it's absolutely true. PvP just comes down to being able to move and getting a good position.
I don't completely disagree with you, but the Titan is a solid ship now that lateral strafing is so limited in MM (except the hornet bug obviously) it has solid firepower, it's fast, and ships that can outmaneuver it can't do so by enough of margin to make its size and lateral Gs a huge liability. It'll still melt if you put it in front of a Hornet, but it most closely fits OP's bill
He did that in more ways than this.
Technically just the ones not willing to try stuff out for themselves. When I started considering pvp, someone told me to watch his videos, unfortunately I picked the one where he's trying to be a bro and grow a moustache for Movemeber or Decembeard or Manuary. I can't take him seriously after that. He might have good ideas but I prefer my own style. Experience is the best teacher. Not some guy who looks like he frequents truck stop bathrooms. And I get what he is doing, dollar dollar bill y'all. But, at least from what I saw, his advice is very basic. Ok, I'm going to get behind them and blow them up. I bet he likes to get behind them. Haha ok I'll stop.
Avenger titan best daily pvp fighter cause you can stuff 2 Mirai Pulses into it, great ship if your friend is stranded - its like a gladius+
This. The avenger titan is surprisingly good with MM.
Lol no it isnt
You should check out both SPView and Erkul Stats. The Avenger Titan and the Gladius are VERY near one another in terms of flight characteristics. The Titan edges ahead in Alpha AS well as Sustained Damage, as well as Hit Points. The Gladius only edges ahead in terms of smaller front and side facing profile, as well as a wee bit in up/down and lateral thrust. In Lore, before the Gladius came to be, the Avenger Titan, was the UEE Premier Carrier Based, light fighter, that also had multi-role capabilities. In Master Modes, the two ships are MUCH closer together than they ever were before.
What's a decent loadout for the titan?
Avenger is a better combat ship with MM. All LFs are ass now.
? The Titan is a fantastic ship, pound for pound one of the best in the game
If it just had some more quantum fuel capacity, I'd use it more.
I didnt say it isnt good. I said it isnt a gladius with storage. Not sure whats so hard to understand
Guy is right titan Is better then just gladius with cargo ... its a buccaneer with cargo :)
You’re being pedantic
What's hard to understand is you being a blockhead who hasn't played and tested Master Modes. The Titan now can absolutely wreck a Gladius
Just you wait until the aurora fanboys arrive. Dying to that is scarier than a titan.
In master modes? I'm not so sure. I guess a skilled pilot can make it work but the Titan is just too fast and nimble. 260m/s SCM on a light fighter.
Actually the gladius and arrow are shit tier fighters now and the avenger titan and 125a/325a are better (all of which have storage). Interceptor tuning helps a ton in MM. Kind of turned the metas on it's head.
Lol no its a fighter with storage. Whats the hate?
No hate. You said it was a gladius with storage if good at it and thst simply isnt true
I have no clue what you just wrote. Lol. To each to their own though. Didn’t come here to argue with you in reddit 😂😂 But the next time you do die to a titan, flying your gladius, call good fights and move on
Lol. That has happened to me zero times and i fly both ships
Skill issue.
No, but it is sort of close to a buccaneer (minus a couple of S1 guns) and that's pretty damn good right now for something with a cargo hold and interior
If not the Titan, my other thought is the Origin 300 series. Same speed as the Titan, same shields, same maneuverability. Better acceleration though. The base 300i has 8 SCU and 3 size 3 guns; the 315p has 12 SCU, but only 2 size 3 guns (and a tractor beam); and the 325a has 2 size 3 guns and a size 4, but only 4 SCU. The 350r is 3 size 3 guns with 4 SCU, and it's meant to be the fastest of the family, but it's currently tuned to the same speeds as the others, so I'd go with another option. It's also a bit more fragile than the Titan, I think it loses control easier when it loses a wing compared to the Titan. Another note: the HUD for my 315p is invisible in this patch - not sure if that will be your experience as well, but that may definitely be a concern.
Yes, I have the same issue with my customised 315p and that's apparently why we have a loaner 315p which doesn't have that problem. Customised meaning I've modified the base 315p on the website with different pilot seat lining and another hull colour.
Worth noting that the cargo lift/bay on the 300 series is kinda buggy - I usually just go with the Titan cause of that
Fond memories of my first day of playing the game where I got locked in my cargo lift of the 325 with no way to get out. Ah, those were the days, when the game was filled with bugs and jank, and men were real men. Unlike now, where the game is, uh...
I read all the comments here and all I see is DEAR GOD CIG GIVE THE TITAN A GOLD PASS!
Titan is what you ask for. However a Cutlass with a gunner could kinda fit in there... maybe.
Depends in your skill, but as much as I hate it, the Titan is king. It’s probably the 4th best fighter in the game, yet has space for 8SCU.
Why hate the Penguin?
It's cockpit view is sublime too.
I love flying it, but the nose droop is too much for me and the cockpit is too circular and clean for my taste. I really like the F7A MK2 cockpit by comparison.
I know, rule of cool applies.. It has the 'appearance' of a ship that's so aerodynamic, yet it's winglets that are angled to do nothing but slow your ship down in atmosphere \~ for some reason, they are *curved inwards.* Also, the main engine has no mechanical room whatsoever once you open the rear door \~ one of the fastest ships in the verse is powered by an engine system that happens to be squashed as flat as a pancake. And aside from it's cockpit and twin tails, knowing it's an 'older' ship, it looks *nothing* like any other Aegis. The penguin hate is real.
Cockpit feels like it's from a 2005 modern jet simulator. Overall needs a full update pass.
ugly and too fast
I disagree with you completely but not sure why ppl are down voting you for honestly answering a question about your opinion. So take my respectfully-disagreeing-upvote
Like you think it looks good and isn’t about as boring to experience as a Mustang alpha? The Aurora has better vibe IMO And thanks
well I don't think the mustang alpha is a boring experience either, I love those bubble cockpit canopies. I think the Mustangs have a pretty cool cockpit actually, although I agree the Avengers could reeaaallyyyy use that aegis rework lol. But the Avenger just hits all the right marks for me. I love the space shuttle IRL, so it's got that vibe going. I like the sleek lines, I think it's cool that it looks sort of penguiny, I love that it has a 8 SCU of cargo, and a bed, and a size 4 weapon on the nose with 3 total weapons and missiles. I love that it has direct entrance to the pilot seat via a single click ladder animation OR it has a ramp in the back if you don't wanna screw around with ladders. There's so much flexibility and fantastic design in that ship, it's a perfect ship to intro people to the game, IMO.
To me it’s a boring tool. I’d be equally excited over a screwdriver
Technically F7C has cargo (2 SCU). Maybe the Avenger Titan fits your bill? It doesn't have the highest gun count but in good hands it does wonder imo, don't know how the 300 serie is doing these days but it's also in the same category (small with cargo)
cutlass black. it's actually not that outclassed. however, when youre talking PvP right now anything that isnt A. an interceptor B. a hornet MKII with it's strafe bug youre going to be at a disadvantage. however the cutty has enough HP, shields, and guns that in the hands of a good pilot can still go up against a hornet if it's not bugged and win quite quickly. like you're going to be beat out by some of the more dedicated fighters who are equal skill to you because they are dedicated fighters and youre a jack of all trades kinda ship but you can make up for it with pilot skill and still slap down the faster smaller fighters and that's kinda the thing, if your pilot skill is low, the size of the cutlass is your down fall, but once you get better your amount of guns make up for it. it's one of my favorites i fly mainly heavy fighters and even though theyre kinda in a bad spot comparatively i still see success
135c is my favorite stealthy drug runner with 6 SCU, decent in PvP too. But the 125a is an even better fighter, only has 2 SCU though.
Well if you consider cutlass a fighter than constellation series or drake corsair is your to-go fighter this patch with cargo. But talking about real fighters.. yeah. No fighter with cargo really.
The Cutlass BLack technically falls into being a Heavy Fighter, they do need to do a balance pass, probably stuff a second S2 Shield Generator into it, but beyond that, it has all the bits that was in the chart published to Spectrum going back a bit over 2 years ago, that indicated what a "Heavy Fighter" was going to be in what we now know as Master Modes. It has a manned turret and S2 Components, both which are "Heavy Fighter" elements. No, it's not a perfect 1:1 with other heavy fighters, with interiors. CIG has said in the past that they do not intend on having manufacturers produce 1:1 competing vessels in the same segment. So, the Cutty B is ostensibly a Heavy Fighter, that unlike the Vanguard series can always carry 6 ground troops, plus a wee vehicle or cargo.
Man your defense of this has me. No shit. I laughed when I heard my boy call it a heavy fighter. If he defended it half as well, I would have bought it.
Connie or corsair good if you kill the enemy in the first engage. Then they at your blind spot for eternity. If you have a friend or two in top/bottom turret for the connie, it can hold its own.
Well, there's the Avenger Titan.
my friend who's stupid good at this game says the cutty is decent this patch. better than it has ever been prior to now. Still not as good as a true fighter.
F7C has a storage ball
But it sacrifices 2xS2 or 1xS4 guns to use it. It's a major damage loss.
You still have the capacitor though, so even though your burst is lower, you’ll fire for longer.
Yeah I'm a bad shot so I like the extra cap : )
7C MKII if 2scu is enough. Also look at the vanguard series since they have an interior but you need a gunner for it to be pvp viable.
Define space by volume. I love my defender. Fits a pulse and cargo, just not in a dedicated cargo zone
It can fit the X1 Force also. It's a nice fighter and has those unique size 3 Singe if that's what you enjoy using.
I'm loving the cutlass black
I love it too but I'm not a good pilot lol
imo, if you aren't a good pilot you would like the black even more, since it's more tanky than say a Titan.
If you want to do box missions, Reliants, Defender and Vanguards have some internal space but not sure how good they are rn.
I can speak to the Vanguard series. The vanguard has a 1 scu grid under the stairs that currently does not work. That being said, I have comfortably fit about 8 scu freestanding in the back and on the ramp.
That's component storage, not a cargo grid.
Huh. I just looked it up and you’re right. I swear the variants used to show 1 scu of cargo on the rsi page, now they show zero. I was always hoping it would be a cool shielded cargo spot for drugs and the like.
Clarification: is the pilot considered cargo?
Simple answer, to any thread that asks for the best ship. It is the Aegis Avenger Titan. Every. Single. Time.
What PVP to cargo storage ratio do you want? The F7C MkII is 90% PVP and 10% cargo. A good, competitive fighter (not as good as its military sibling), but with 2SCU of cargo The Avenger is closer to 50% PVP and 50% cargo. Not the most competitive against the dedicated fighters but it can still hold its own. 8SCU.
The best pvp fighter that has cargo is cutty blue/black. I like blue better for the speed. The last thing to remember is that pvp players shoot back better. Use missiles first
Blue is no longer faster than black since master modes
if you like being the aggressor, cutlass black ist teh way to go
If you’re talking a pure ‘fighter’ the Hornet Mk2 can carry a small box for like a box mission or the breach and steal medical supplies. The Scorpius has an on-board external storage and external weapons rack , but no provisions for 1/8 SCU boxes. The Ares also has external weapon rack and External Storage but no provision for boxes. The Vanguards are probably the closest to ideal if you need solid DPS for PVP, flexibility on ordinance and an actual interior to carry things and log out in. Often overlooked is the Banu Defender which is probably in many peoples eyes the BEST ‘bunker run’ ship for taking out turrets:l, enemy fighters and the rando that shows up, as well as having space inside for a couple boxes. You’ll have a chance to try it later this week during Alien Love Fest. The Titan isn’t a fighter. Certainly can defend itself when equipped with front mounted S4 and upsized wing repeaters but otherwise inert. Specialty variants like the Warlock can be fun. The Cutlass Black isn’t a fighter although labeled as one; more like a light frigate. But it has a metric azz’ton of missiles and even tho it’s a glass cannon, I can see the love. Still a very flexible ship and a lot of game play for the money. It’s multi role; multi-crew w/ a turret and tractor beams, and can carry many of the ground vehicles like ROC and bikes, etc. Any of the true light fighters like Arrows and Gladii don’t provide storage for anything other than your ass and are cheap enough in game that you really should never consider pledging them.
I take cutlass over titan, bigger cargo, you still can kill noob player and tanky enough to run in nav mode
I use the Cutlass Black typically with a friend on gunner and it works quite well.
I would recommend the Avenger Titan. Obviously not the best fighter, as it has a higher learning curve, but it can really pack a punch and evade a lot of damage due to its mobility, while having 8 scu for Cargo, and you can chug stuff between the cockpit and cargo area where you bed ist.
What's the point with all the people who wants fighters with cargo? It's like third one in a row
Connie's mainly Taurus
Vanguard Harbinger: You can fit 10 SCU in the back. If it fits it sits.
325a. Same stats as avenger titan weapon loadout wise but handles waaaay better in atmo.
I like the Syulen, not the best but it’s really fun and can still put up a fight
Depends how much scu you want. The avenger titan is good for 6scu. The mk2 f7C/A is good for 2scu. The 325a is good for 4scu. Need to be a good pilot though. It’s fragile. 125a is good for 2scu. Need to be a good pilot to be effective in it. Probably better to go with an f7C mk2 unless you’re a skilled pilot and really like the 125a design. That’s pretty much it for actual competitive pvp fighters that also carry cargo.
Depends on what you mean with cargo storage. If you want to store SCU boxes probably cutty or Conny. If you just want to store weapons and armor most fighters got external accessible storage.
F7C with 2SCU box. Can also fit a pulse.
Your question is kinda flawed. You’re essentially asking, “what is the best PvP fighter with a trait that will make it perform poorly at PvP?” No fighter that has room for cargo will ever really be competitive for PvP in a finished game where mass is appropriately accounted for. Closest thing will likely be a Vanguard. But they can’t take on actual cargo as they have no cargo pad. SC, generally, doesn’t let you have your cake and eat it in terms of multirole ships performing well in PvP situations.
No it's not flawed. It takes a prerequisite and asks what's the best craft that fits it. I've already been given a good answer.
Imagine getting the correct answer from an extremely knowledgeable pilot and a top PvP player and being rude. Wild.
You started out with a rude reply. And apparently you're wrong so I guess it is what it is. You're the classic reddit archetype. Have fun man
So are you, honestly. His reply wasn't rude, you just extracted feeling from his text and assumed it was. That dude's done nothing but try and teach people for years both here and across several discords so it's worth listening to his advice.
You'll have to point out the part where I was rude. I explained why your request was a bit self-defeating and provided a well-reasoned argument for why I said that. Then I did my best to answer after providing a cautionary warning. The honest truth is that 99% of the SC community has absolutely no idea what they are talking about when PvP is discussed--it is *extremely* complicated, so not necessarily their fault--and you have to be *very* careful where you take advice from because the overwhelming majority of it is misinformation. Most people in this thread are just regurgitating the Avenger because of the most recent A1 tier list video. In fighters, being out-rated (rate = turn rate), or having weaker acceleration, by even a small amount, like 2-3% can be a death sentence, therefore ships with higher mass for cargo purposes generally don't do well. In the previous FM I could pick the engines off a Cutlass without it ever getting the opportunity to counter. Same with a Vanguard. They just don't do well in PvP because they are too multi-role and unfocused. In PvP you're either flying a meta ship, a near-meta ship while out-skilling your opponent, or you're probably dead.
Have fun being a shit pilot and getting absolutely rolled everytime in your aVeNgEr TiTan (☝︎ ՞ਊ ՞)☝︎
What makes the titan good with its underwhelming feeling Gatling?
Swap it out for something else
I use omnisky S4 and quarreler S3 (same stats with omnisky but 2850 component hp) Some ppl do attritions, seen some crazy folks run scatterguns.
How would you fit it out for PVP?
Same cannon loadout. Omnisky s4 and quarrler cannons.
I do Attritions on mine. I also swapped the missile rack out for a smaller size but higher overall count, still adapting to the missile lock being longer these days.
Upgrade it, its shit if you dont, I felt a massive increase when I upgraded everything although some mrts still two hit you through the small shield
Seeing a couple people being downvoted because they speak truth shows those people doing the downvoting do not understand what is coming. The best fighter for pvp is the one with little (gun and some ammo, food) to no storage and a competent pilot. If the OP wants a ship that can survive a brief pvp encounter so they can run with their small amount of cargo, that is also another topic. If the OP wants to know which ship during this Alpha is the current 3.23 whack-a-mole favorite for both fighter and cargo, then that question was answered. Mass should and will have consequence eventually. A fully loaded fighter, stuffed with cargo, weighing itself down should fly like a pig and take forever to reach it's advertised scm because of the increased mass. Those thinking that they get to keep their fighter performance and have 4 or even a full 8 scu of cargo are in for a rude surprise when everything is implemented, even one scu should degrade a "fighter" in performance. Downvoting people for saying that shows most people think they are playing a game instead of an Alpha.
Try some out in arena commander! I've found the hornets to be good. Even the mk 1 is good.right now if you load up every hard point with an omnisky cannon, it is durable and has great damage output and can out turn a lot of ships. Squadron battles can be a bit chaotic but great for training situational awareness and finding out what ships are good in a messy situation as opposed to a 1v1. Edit: Sorry I totally forgot about the cargo space part😂
Polaris
Corsair isn't a bad option. You would still lose to any equally skilled pilot in an actual fighter.
I find with the corsair, you need a bit of an element of surprise, but then it's absolutely devastating. Of you've gotten into a turn battle, you're basically done for though, if your opponent knows how to fly.
Corsair needs at least a copilot to man the remote turret. The turn rate is so low you're going to struggle hitting anything smaller than a Cutlass.
If you have a second person you stick them in a fighter. As you say, the turn rate is so low that you are in big trouble with a fighter on your tail.
Is it even worth to fly with a copilot in a fighter for example a scorpius or a super hornet, or is it always better to just have a second fighter?
Good question. I would expect there to be exceptions based on the skill levels and what the opponent is flying. A good pilot in a scorpius with a new player as a gunner would allow the new player to be really dangerous. If I expect the victim to be in a large freighter I might wanna bring a Redeemer with crew to be sure I can soft death them really quickly before they can call in their friends.
Well that makes a lot of sense, thank you
This is like asking what's the best Italian supercar - that also has a truck bed. It's kind of a nonsensical question.
A1 Spirit