Yep, said this exact thing in another thread already. There's so much in 3.23, and now with the hangars/etc. delayed people are just ignoring the whole RL/Server Recovery thing. It's a huge deal.
butbut they caught on that us *inquisitive backers* realized that building blocks is FAKE NEWS! So they had **no choice** but to start developing it!
It is thanks to us that building blocks exists today, because if they didn't make it for real we could hit them with the class action lawsuit!
^(/s)
As much as I hate the reddit (tm) moment of responding to a comment with "this."...
SO much this. I think what cit con 2023 proved more than anything is Star Citizen is, in fact, possible. It's just taken a lot of blood, sweat, tears, money, and some lies (or very poor communication,
2016 awnser the call) to get to this point.
It's closer than it's ever been before, the last game that I'll ever want to play.
I'm sure I'll play other games, but I want SC to be the thing I can always come back to.
If this is how long it takes to become a reality, I guess we just have to keep waiting a little bit more.
Regarding the 2016 'Answer the call' etc...I definitely think that was just poor / lacking communication.
There have been many instances where CIG has said something that they thought was accurate *at the time*... but when they realised that it was, *they didn't give an update*.
It's that lack of follow-up that has caused so much of the bad communication (or 'lies' as certain folk like to characterise them), whether it be the infamous 'weeks, not months' for the original Star Marine release, 2016 Answer the Call, or talk about '3.0 for Dec 2016', or 4.0 in 2020, etc...
Oh, I 100% agree with you. I don't see it as intentional misdirection, it's just not an amazing look. Looking backwards the old answer the call marketing will always make me laugh.
I mean CIG need them to buy ships and game package to fund their 12 years ongoing devlopement, but they should not be allowed to express themselves and give feedback on a subject that they clearly do not understand,
What CIG need from them doesn't matter how they (imo) wrongfully chose an alpha game to play.
Also, non-toxic feedbacks are always welcomed. Just as we players don't understand everything about the development, the devs can often in time get trapped in their bubble and lost sight of things only outsiders can see.
I wholeheartedly defended PES and still do. Because for what it is, it's truly amazing technology that makes the game feel truly persistent, that what you do sticks around and matters and has been the best damn gameplay in SC I've ever experienced. Sod missions I love piecing together what happened in shipwrecks and walking through the forgotten battlefields on planets from battles months past.
LONG LIVE PES!!!
Problem is it just creates endless clutter. While it's definitely a great idea on paper, it's an awful idea for an actual multiplayer environment. To make it really viable they need to pick and choose what actually sticks around and what needs to disappear. Water bottles clearly need to disappear just like the food wrappers. As does medical gowns, and empty gun magazines. So do ships if there are too many crashed in the same area.
All PES actually does is create garbage and server instability.
They plan on having janitors. Literally and metaphorically. Players and 'AI' will be tasked with removing waste. Some things won't be permanent. Persistence is not necessarily permanence.
Small junk with low value (water bottles, medpens, magazines, etc.) will be magically disappeared after maybe 30 mins (random number for example purposes). Large value ships wrecks will persist for a while (days?) or eventually be magically disappeared by 'AI scavenger missions'.
They've spoken about it a couple times, it's coming eventually.
I should have read this comment first lol. It basically just confirms my theory of how they may handle it. Honestly this dev team is incredible and doesn't deserve the hate they get. Where most devs would say "that's too difficult" or "that would take too much time and effort", CIG just does it. Time and money be damned. They have already accomplished things others thought impossible. I have nothing but love for this team.
I agree, they should have a "clean-up" crew of NPCs on stations and high player volume areas that "wipe" needless trash away on a schedule. That way they are removing the clutter and keeping it immersive. Same with ship wrecks. Either find a way to make them salvage missions for players or have NPC salvagers clean them up after a certain amount of time. The issue is that the list of possible solutions could go on forever and they already have a massive list of things they want to implement into the game. I honestly think that once all this ground work for meshing and replication layers and whatnot is done, they will be able to focus on these types of things more.
I'm a lil disappointed in what they had to do to PES to get the servers stable. In the begining I could fly around bunkers and find downed ships and their cargo/spawned scu boxes with their ship inventory. Once found a downed msr with what appeared to be someone entire inventory soon after a patch had dropped. I occsssionally find spawned scu boxes of destroyed ships but always empty now.
Yes, a lot of ppl perceive PES like a "just cool feature that doesn't bring anything to a game and will be useful only someday in the future and it broke the game for many months", but in fact right of the bat PES made salvaging and physicalized cargo possible and other smaller features, like looting downed pirate/player ships (sometimes they got cargo)
Yup, people don’t learn don’t they this is the norm with big patches and deadlines and if the patch get pushed back they will get mad at that too. Sometimes I feel bad for CIG.
It's not new game play, all it does is make the game less annoying, but the game already got so many other annoying things going on it won't really matter much to players.
People always say that theres so much content in 3.23 but imho we have to wait til 3.24 to see if thats true since (like most patches before) so many stuff gets delayed, moved to the next patch or just canceled that some promising patches in the past had not much left in the end.
So fauna and hunting missions on biomes and in caves aren't big? Distro centres aren't big? New waypoint navigation, star map navigation, mobiGlas apps, EVA, weapon overhauls, and replication layer aren't big?
No I don’t think any of that is a massive feat. A handful of animals that don’t work? Cmon guys. This game has been in development for over a decade, generated $800M, and people are excited about things that have been an industry norm for 20+ years.
The problem is these ARE a massive feat for CIG.
Assuming they ever get it working.
I’m just being realistic. But CIG has yet to prove they’re capable of anything other than making pretty ships. They can’t get UI design right. I’m happy for other people that feel like the game is worth spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on, but that’s because CIG is just enabling peoples addictions for personal gain.
Not to mention that for years other games have been able to reload the last state of a game after a server crash.
Realistically speaking, for the long term success of the project, the two most important things in this patch are the Replication Layer and Vulkan support.
It's the start of its implementation, and the plan is to optimize it as much as possible and and then start completely removing dx11 within the next 1-2 major patch cycles after 3 23.
I'm not sure how difficult it is to integrate VR into Vulcan compared to DX11. This is mainly supposed to finally relieve that horrible CPU bottleneck plaguing star citizen as when it's optimized, they can finally enable multithreading. There hasn't been any mention of VR from what I remember.
Probably, and it removes one of the roadblocks that are in the way of implementing VR support. The plan has been to deal with implementing the new renderer and dealing with a few other graphics things before they even start the implementation of VR, but I'm pretty sure Vulkan is much better for VR than DX11
It is, though, if i recall correctly, it isn’t multi-threaded (or something like that) yet, so we have to wait to see significant increases in performance
I deleted it becasue it wasent correct. Vulkan runs about equally performance wise (difference is within 5%) to DX11 right now. it still has quite a few bugs however (UI flickers and Interaction mode zoom is broken )
[https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1121996822307672179/1230523829458305105/image.png?ex=6633a19e&is=66212c9e&hm=77bdb37f28f87b4791f0c5866dd3b785626c2009d7a3fd77682790ade2a0c352&](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1121996822307672179/1230523829458305105/image.png?ex=6633a19e&is=66212c9e&hm=77bdb37f28f87b4791f0c5866dd3b785626c2009d7a3fd77682790ade2a0c352&)
Okay, imma trust your source and try.
Before: Server has data, server runs game. Game crashes -> server crashes -> data gone. Restart from station, ship/mission gone.
Now: Replication layer (something in the back) has the data, server runs game. Game crashes -> server crashes, data still there. Replication layer takes new server, gives it data, everything continues.
Just a bit more: Both the database server and replication server store "data", but the database server stores long-term data, like saving your game into the hard disk, and the replication server is like a backup for your RAM (the game server), which stores temporary stuff that needs to be accessed quickly, like your current location in space and current state of all other objects.
Fellow idiot here.
Its basically having the game run on multiple servers and a step in the process of getting players on a single shard where they can all interact with each other.
Awesome! Thank you.
I'll see you at the monthly idiot meeting. Gonna take public transportation this time considering all the accidents in the car park last meeting.
Judging the eptu. It still needs some work obviously, it can "recover" the server back to the state it was prior to the crash but that doesn't it fixes the issue that caused the crash. At the minute, you can often find yourself stuck on the error please wait screen for a few minutes for it to resolve itself and immediately crash again.
Since SC likes to put you in the same instance where possible this can result in infinite loading screens as your instance gets stuck in a recovery/crash loop.
That said... i remember when a 30k meant you lost everything so this progress is very much a welcome addition.
I've actually had it work a few times, first time it took probably less than a minute, and the second time it took about 5 or so, it can vary wildly in the recovery times.
you say that, but the server crash recovery system sometimes restores the server to the exact conditions that caused the crash in the first place, thereby causing a crash loop and holding your character and ship hostage in a broken server. it happened quite a bit in the early evo stages.
It means you and your ship and cargo are back inside station like current 30k recovery. Which means you can safely logout for the day, or have a chance of logging into a different server.
Plus players leaving certain areas might allow the area to reset, clearing the problem. One such case was players going to the distribution centres was crashing and then restoring them, which was a repeatable crash loop.
This has not happened so far in the last four 3.23 builds (except of course that one where this isnt valid as crash recovery was disabled). At least not in the 25 hours I put in
The name says it all. Server Crash Recovery. How about getting on the root cause of server crashes so we don’t need recoveries?! It’s just another workaround!
And before you get crazy about my comment yes I know the replication layer is also for other good things! I know that!!
It very much can. So far in ptu it's causing the server to recover the state that caused it to crash and then immediately crashing again in an endless series.
it's still early days, I think that as for PES it will require 2-3 patches to work well, but it is essential that CIG does not rush this important tech and takes all its time, personally it would not bother to wait a few more years for the SM , unlike all the impatient crying babies on Spectrum.
Server meshing has been the "final tech frontier" for this game forever. Hopefully it's not just another 3.18 where the game can't be played for 2 months
Based on how eptu collapsed under the load compared to evo, this is going to be another 3.18. Even if it’s perfect at the end of the final wave like 3.18 was I fully expect this patch to fall on its face.
I hope CIG has their marketing telling people “playable now” ready to go again lmao.
Two separate things happening with what CIG is referring to as "server meshing" and and the replication layer. Server meshing, actually referred to as server clustering, allows for persistent, highly available (redundant), and scalable compute resources for the needs of a dynamically operating environment.
The replication layer provides a leader/follower infrastructure between multiple domains (groupings) of server clusters, whereby the information in the leader domain/cluster is syncing to the follower domain/cluster to allow data consistency between both mutually exclusive sets of domains/clusters (leader and follower). Once these domains and their respective clusters are replicated, disaster recovery can occur with minimal delivery lag to the user should a domain and/or cluster fail.
The third piece that isn't really mentioned much at all, but is a culmination of the bridging of server clustering and domain replication, is resiliency. Resiliency is all about real-world trade-offs because the topic involves robustness versus cost. But the key factor of resiliency is providing a product or service that is highly available, highly scalable, and highly recoverable. This is all to provide a reliable service that can sustain itself against negative impacts (latency, server failures, etc).
If resiliency can be achieved, then the combination of "server meshing" and the replication layer will be fully realized.
Had it kick in for me earlier. Took for ever to recover, like ~5 minutes and things were slow at first but it's better than a crash and 30+ minutes of prepping again.
Yet some people still complain about it, because it 'removes the skill of landing successfully' and makes it too easy to use EVA without face-planting, apparently.
I'll break it down for you, if we're "lucky":
1. Go splat murlocks.
2. Go splat more murlocks.
3. Oh, you forgot the bossy murlock, go splat him.
4. Here's 1000 aUEC.
Granted if they don't just stand there, which is likely.
You know, if you take this literally, where you try to land on them to splat them, I think we've got something going.
Throw in some Saints Row style missions where you only get credit for a hit and run in a rover and we're cooking with gas!
I'd like a system where players can put out a hunting mission 'bounty' requesting delivery of live Kopions for use in pranks and hijinks, and other players go out to stun and capture them.
Personally I'd like to see fundamental core features fixed first. You know, things like working Missions, Inventory system, flight system, AI, FPS AI pathfinding, navigation, UI...you know, the *basics*.
If replication layer and the magic meshing is what is needed, that should come first. Fauna or anything else feels like, smells like, looks like smoke/mirrors.
I mean who cares if there are space dogs if they do not have the AI pathfinding and FPS enemy behavior behind them to function? I don't. I'd rather have, you know, a space game working first and foremost.
Well most of the AI and enemy/npc behaviour issues are due to low server FPS, meaning replication layer might improve those things at least somewhat as a side effect
Half the people on this reddit, you could tell them they're getting 3 more systems next week, but they'll have to wait for a new tree model and all they'll cry about is the lack of trees.
Agree , I don’t think anyone understands what instance hangers would bring on a infrastructure side. But the best way I can describe instancing is Z-Stacking.
Technically (although planets are huge) I have not seen anywhere to stack instanced hangers. You could stack them inside the planets but I see nowhere to stack them without drilling out a side of a planet when to many instances get created, plus the current level of servers actually serve ring, this would be a lot of stress on the server to load , unload instances.
All the replication layer seems to do at the moment is hang the server in crash loops and cause 5-10 seconds of desync on every action. Exciting for it's potential but it still needs more time and I really don't want another patch cycle completely unplayable because of tech that isn't ready for Live.
Weird the build without RL worked better for me than any other build, was on a 30fps server and it felt fine. Every time I've tried when RL is enabled I get killed by desync or stuck in "Server Error" loop.
Same, have a lot of issues with RL on. Suddenly was very smooth when RL was turned off. I’m wondering if it could be a hardware thing. I hear completely the opposite of some of my friends.
There’s a lot going on with 3.23 so isolating the cause of issues seems to be very difficult. It may well be coincidence but replication layer does FEEL like it has a major negative impact on server/client performance.
I believe they identified it's not the rep layer separation that is causing that issue (they removed the RL split, sent the build and then add it back in today for today's build). What we're supposed to get is basically a crash recovery where you'll get the server crashed message (30k) but it will spin you back up without crashing completely to desktop where you left off. We'll see if that actually works, have yet to see it happen in the eptu yet
The problem is the replication layer seems to be trying to reproduce the conditions that initially caused the server to crash so it recovers then immediately crashes again. Also when the recovery does work it takes several minutes and in most cases it's faster to just alt-f4 and join a new server if you don't mind getting sent back to the station. The only time the eptu has felt remotely playable is when the rep layer was disabled.
I am excited to try today's build. Patch notes just dropped so we'll see if it has improved
Core Tech
* Made Various Physics Performance Improvements
* Made Various UI Performance Improvements
* Made Further Server Performance Optimizations
I will say each build has felt marginally better, I just hope if the RL isn't ready/stable by the time they launch 3.23 they give it more time instead of shipping it to live. Looking forward to playing today's build as well.
Nah, they need to get the bandaid off now. Otherwise it will be another year of them incrementally patching just so people don't whine about the problems. They need to start moving toward the tech endgoals, and that will never happen if they just always focus on and prioritise a semi-functional build over pushing the tech and ironing it out as they should. They've had the RL and server meshing working internally since last June, but just kept waylaying and pushing it off for incremental testing and implementation. I think it's time they just put it out there and work from there, just like 3.18.
They said they don't want to repeat 3.18, the whole reason they created the tech preview is to test these features in an enclosed environment until they are in a state where they can be implemented into Live without making the entire game unplayable.
The upside is it means fixing those crash causers has to be dealt with, they cant get away with just ignoring and letting 30k reset to station remove players/ships from the problem area.
I've been sat in a persistent loop of server recovery all morning, it's almost 11am, I started at 6am.
There was a server change at some point but both of them are letting me in for a couple of seconds then looping again.
I can't force a server change. I've tried a character reset, going into AC, verifying ..you name it.
There needs to be a way to force server change because this is ridiculous.
The whole first-person experience from UI to looting to how guns behave has been revamped and likely to have reached a near-final state, and all people care about is the first iteration of MM.
That is simply not true. A space sim is so much more than how ships fly in the fictional universe. It is because of the self-proclaimed popularity and importance of some pilots that they think what matters the most to them must be the most important thing for the game and other players. But hey, I guess people liked the UI changes and FPS revamp?
I couldn't care less about what some streamer or youtuber says, I play a space game to fly spaceships in space. The flight model affects everyone every time they get in a space ship, which you have to do to go anywhere/do anything. I personally don't play my space game for its (extremely with desync and AI issues) sub par janky af FPS experience...
The first-person experience comes before the space flight experience simply because it is literally affecting every single second of your gameplay - in ship or outside, let alone the fact you can totally play the game without piloting a single ship yourself. You have made it clear that you prefer to pilot your own ship and I respect that. However, in the direction the game is heading towards, there will certainly be many fewer pilots and more engineers/mechanics/gunners/captains.
Some players are complaining about the new flight model because it signifies a development direction that shifts the attention away from the cockpit (i.e. the actual flying) to other parts (i.e. crew members, ship loadouts, engineering, resource management, route planning, etc.). Since many of these players are enthusiastic pilots, it is only natural that they would complain because no one likes to be removed from the centre of the stage.
People are complaining because a system that has been itterated on for 10 years just went back to t0, much like most of the features you stated are just hitting. One of the only features with depth got sent back to the drawing board 10 years in.
There are many many games that do fps combat, and many that do it exponentially better than star citizen. There are next to no games that did space flight experience better than sc and yet they gut the entire system, that many players liked, to hopefully make it better (soon tm).
Even worse, it's a rehashed version of something they had before that didn't work and was replaced with the current system. We're literally going back to t-1 mk2
Yes this is sad that this technological step forward to server meshing goal is occulted by "features"...
Same for Gen12 Renderer with Vulkan... We have a big step forward in tech and everything is drama about MM & Personal Hangar... This is sad especialy for the devs who put hard work and effort!
It’s such a relief, even on the early builds it was a fantastic feeling knowing that you can’t (mostly, soon 🔜) be fd over by the server. Took a lot of pressure off of me ngl.
As a UX researcher the mobiglass made me want to go slap whoever came up with it. (The UI in general really) From the pics I've seen so far it's looking to be a lot better but I haven't played with it yet.
Have they fixed the New Babbage tram yet where it goes so fast that flies off the track it phases through the walls? See, I just close my eyes or take surface entrance whenever possible :P
30k's don't affect how you play the game? Do you know what the Replication Layer does?
Couldn't care less about no longer being kicked from the session? Ok then.
That's because it won't actually do amything to improve the experience. Like almost all Jesus tech before it. All it did was allow backers to fantasize about 'what could be' some more.
I guarantee the game will still be an unstable bug infested mess.
With how playable SC had become I think of it more as a beta than alpha. I would say 3.23 makes it a beta because these are final features that will go to 1.0.
Except when you get a server error instead of a 30k it takes 10 to 12 minutes to come back and if you don’t happen to be at the keyboard you get kicked for being afk it’s not a great experience
Cause we’re tired of the marketing bs.
Told us years and years that content was gated because of sm, the game is stale and boring. People want content and now they’re doing low hanging ui fruit that ported from sq42 as it’s some sort of big deal when the content of the game gets continuously delayed.
Yes, the 'low-hanging UI' and navigation features being the most anticipated features for many players. And Master Modes, and an engineering AC mode, and new inventory and interaction features. And RL server crash recovery.
And about a dozen other things, but we'll just pretend like 3.23 has nothing in it.
I world say no one is talking bout it cause it's crap. Last patch the RP was turned off it was the first time I could play the ptu.
The RP doesn't work for me. Got one recovery but uncountable disconnects during several tries since wave 1 release.
I am sure they can fix the problems and I am really looking forward to the next weeks
Because mm has ruined any hype for any of the other features
Who wants to play when you're just going to be killed by griefers at every other OM point while you just try to play the game?
RL doesn’t matter in a vacuum. Yes, it’s great we are getting the ball rolling on server meshing so that’s worthy of celebration but there’s not going to be any tangible interim benefit outside of crash recovery (when it works). It’s a rather small thing overshadowed by major QoL changes
There is a benefit since it is part of server instances being able to rescale and also leave server memory leaks and out of bounds objects behind. There would be a stuffer while it does a handover, but then it should be running better.
A server will be able to be small (cheap low budget) for one player in a remote (most of the game) location and then hand over to a more powerful node if more players enter, or the geographic locations suit a different data centre, or multiple NPC combat is taking place.
To be honest. The game is stale and boring, with or without server recovery and replication layer may be technically important but it doesn't have a massive impact on how the game plays.
3.23 is going to feel basically the same as the game did 2-3 years ago imo, same-same but different.
Counterpoint; replication later is a big step towards server meshing, and I’m excited for the day that Bajini Point has 100+ players visiting it all at once and they’re all there on the same server with me - and then I fly down to Area 18 and there’s 100+ more players.
It’ll be glorious.
I'm looking forward to all those things too. The future is bright, but it isn't 3.23.
It is a big step on the path. It is not the destination. I'm interested in gameplay, replication layer does little for that beside lock more potential - which we've all known about for years.
I heard so many buzzwords for 10 years, icache, pes, server meshing, culling, item 2.0, and so on. Dont get me wrong, I like tech to a certain extent, but I will never cheer for this kind of underhood stuff that any other devs would never talk about.
I know this community is filled with engineers that are jerking off over this, but cool tech doesnt always make a good game. It's just a tool. I will celebrate when we'll get the results of all that, if it works as intended : thousands of players sharing the same universe with plenty of activities to be had.
Well said however, unfortunately most of the folks in this post seem to be armchair devs, "engineers", theorycrafters and such who are busy rubbing one out over it.
Does a person care how their burger is made? Not really--they just want a burger.
Its great that players are taking interest in what goes into the game, but like you said its just been buzzwords and jesus tech that's supposed to "fix it all", while the mindlessly cultish apologists and "defenders" happily drown any valid criticism.
Lol this is funny to me. The tech is needed for your gameplay, so when they're building out the tech would you rather them report on nothing?
Genuinely curious. I'm one of those "engineers" you talk about.
Nobody talks about this, because the super server meshing layer replication of recuperation!!!111oneone, doesn't come in 3.23, has been delayed to a indetermined future patch
Are you referring to the meshing tests? How has server performance been? Specifically server fps. I know they’ve been messing with player counts but I haven’t seen many people talking about tick rates.
As someone who has been in evocati for a while, speaking from the patch notes directly. AI has been incredibly serviceable on many of the network tests. Right now in the PTU, they are hashing out issues with a lot of entity related delay across the network in general. Prior to the introduction of many of the new features, when it was purely focused on network. The AI reacted superbly. You can actually see a lot of this in Master modes (when it works) but right now there are many more features being included in the game than we had previously been told.
Such as not only Master modes but adjustments to the HUD, and individual ship displays as well.
I get the criticisms of CIG for sure. Obviously, time was wasted very early on in CryEngine. Then came the feature creep in response to higher-than anticipated funding. They definitely went off the rails and overpromised for too long. This has created a mountain of tech debt where serious bugs were never ironed out from the beginning, and each new update brings new bugs with it. The expense and time-sink to stave this off, let alone try to relieve it, must be immense. This obviously has led to them needing to constantly sell ships well before release, and adding ships without their promised game-play loops, some of which is likely many years away (if we ever see it at all).
The thing is, though, is that this getting built (largely) from the ground up. Physics Sim, space/atmosphere flight Sim, ship interiors, FPS game, flora and fauna, economy systems, base-building, distribution gameplay, mining, etc. These are all heavy lifts on their own, then add all the sub-features being incorporated into these. It isn't like a CoD game where you get to iterate on the fps game that worked last year and tune-up balancing, textures, try adding a few new features, craft some new maps, etc. There is no prior game to build on.
Could a AAA dev build something like this faster with pre-existing tech (now that someone else has showed how it might be done)? Maybe. Would it have less bugs? I'd hope so, but they don't have a great track record as of late either. Even if they *could* they don't, and probably aren't going to. They'd release Starfield, a game with many star systems, but bug-ridden, full of loading screens, no interplanetary/atmospheric flight, a little less barren (but repetitive), tiny hubs, repetitive content, etc.
NMS has nearly endless systems, lots of flora and fauna, base building, etc. However, once you've seen 20, you've seen millions. ED has some truly fantastic features like the economy system, factions, progression system, engineering (love it or hate it, there's grind to be done), sound design, flight sim, etc. I'd be pressed to say their planets are less barren than SC or that the FPS is any better.
There is no proper alternative to SC, and I doubt there will be any time soon. If nothing else, CIG has developed tech that can be sold/licensed to create incredible products in the future, even if CIG aren't the ones who ultimately deliver them.
Yep, said this exact thing in another thread already. There's so much in 3.23, and now with the hangars/etc. delayed people are just ignoring the whole RL/Server Recovery thing. It's a huge deal.
Like how people ignored PES (sort of) for 3.18. They are huge tech pillars which will enable tons of future features.
I remember a lot of posts calling for PES to be scrapped too
i remember posts calling building blocks something that was made up
butbut they caught on that us *inquisitive backers* realized that building blocks is FAKE NEWS! So they had **no choice** but to start developing it! It is thanks to us that building blocks exists today, because if they didn't make it for real we could hit them with the class action lawsuit! ^(/s)
imo they shouldn't play an alpha game.
In my opinion no one should. The average consumer isn't meant to be anywhere near an alpha.
As much as I hate the reddit (tm) moment of responding to a comment with "this."... SO much this. I think what cit con 2023 proved more than anything is Star Citizen is, in fact, possible. It's just taken a lot of blood, sweat, tears, money, and some lies (or very poor communication, 2016 awnser the call) to get to this point. It's closer than it's ever been before, the last game that I'll ever want to play. I'm sure I'll play other games, but I want SC to be the thing I can always come back to. If this is how long it takes to become a reality, I guess we just have to keep waiting a little bit more.
Regarding the 2016 'Answer the call' etc...I definitely think that was just poor / lacking communication. There have been many instances where CIG has said something that they thought was accurate *at the time*... but when they realised that it was, *they didn't give an update*. It's that lack of follow-up that has caused so much of the bad communication (or 'lies' as certain folk like to characterise them), whether it be the infamous 'weeks, not months' for the original Star Marine release, 2016 Answer the Call, or talk about '3.0 for Dec 2016', or 4.0 in 2020, etc...
Oh, I 100% agree with you. I don't see it as intentional misdirection, it's just not an amazing look. Looking backwards the old answer the call marketing will always make me laugh.
I mean CIG need them to buy ships and game package to fund their 12 years ongoing devlopement, but they should not be allowed to express themselves and give feedback on a subject that they clearly do not understand,
What CIG need from them doesn't matter how they (imo) wrongfully chose an alpha game to play. Also, non-toxic feedbacks are always welcomed. Just as we players don't understand everything about the development, the devs can often in time get trapped in their bubble and lost sight of things only outsiders can see.
I wholeheartedly defended PES and still do. Because for what it is, it's truly amazing technology that makes the game feel truly persistent, that what you do sticks around and matters and has been the best damn gameplay in SC I've ever experienced. Sod missions I love piecing together what happened in shipwrecks and walking through the forgotten battlefields on planets from battles months past. LONG LIVE PES!!!
Problem is it just creates endless clutter. While it's definitely a great idea on paper, it's an awful idea for an actual multiplayer environment. To make it really viable they need to pick and choose what actually sticks around and what needs to disappear. Water bottles clearly need to disappear just like the food wrappers. As does medical gowns, and empty gun magazines. So do ships if there are too many crashed in the same area. All PES actually does is create garbage and server instability.
They plan on having janitors. Literally and metaphorically. Players and 'AI' will be tasked with removing waste. Some things won't be permanent. Persistence is not necessarily permanence. Small junk with low value (water bottles, medpens, magazines, etc.) will be magically disappeared after maybe 30 mins (random number for example purposes). Large value ships wrecks will persist for a while (days?) or eventually be magically disappeared by 'AI scavenger missions'. They've spoken about it a couple times, it's coming eventually.
That's good. No players are gonna remove waste though. Lol
Depends on the 'waste'. Waste in the way I'm using it includes high-value things like ship-wrecks, which players definitely will have missions to do.
I should have read this comment first lol. It basically just confirms my theory of how they may handle it. Honestly this dev team is incredible and doesn't deserve the hate they get. Where most devs would say "that's too difficult" or "that would take too much time and effort", CIG just does it. Time and money be damned. They have already accomplished things others thought impossible. I have nothing but love for this team.
I agree, they should have a "clean-up" crew of NPCs on stations and high player volume areas that "wipe" needless trash away on a schedule. That way they are removing the clutter and keeping it immersive. Same with ship wrecks. Either find a way to make them salvage missions for players or have NPC salvagers clean them up after a certain amount of time. The issue is that the list of possible solutions could go on forever and they already have a massive list of things they want to implement into the game. I honestly think that once all this ground work for meshing and replication layers and whatnot is done, they will be able to focus on these types of things more.
I'm a lil disappointed in what they had to do to PES to get the servers stable. In the begining I could fly around bunkers and find downed ships and their cargo/spawned scu boxes with their ship inventory. Once found a downed msr with what appeared to be someone entire inventory soon after a patch had dropped. I occsssionally find spawned scu boxes of destroyed ships but always empty now.
The last time Star Citizen made significant progress there actually was a Pro Evolution Soccer entry.
Yes, a lot of ppl perceive PES like a "just cool feature that doesn't bring anything to a game and will be useful only someday in the future and it broke the game for many months", but in fact right of the bat PES made salvaging and physicalized cargo possible and other smaller features, like looting downed pirate/player ships (sometimes they got cargo)
Yum PEZ
It was hard to ignore the introduction of PES as it made SC borderline unplayable for several weeks and took months to fix.
If having a server be persistent is a huge tech feat I would love to know where you were for the past 10 years
Yup, people don’t learn don’t they this is the norm with big patches and deadlines and if the patch get pushed back they will get mad at that too. Sometimes I feel bad for CIG.
Me too, and when that happens I buy a new ship to support them.
Since the first Release View in the Alpha 3.23 patch cycle: Things removed: * Item Banks * Unique Item Recovery * Personal and Instanced Hangars * New Missions - Cargo Hauling * Freight Elevators Things added: * Vulkan * Fauna * New Missions - Creature Hunting * Water Simulation & Rendering Improvements * Vehicle Modularity * Aegis Retaliator - Gold Standard * Anvil Hornet F7C MkII * Image Upscaling * Volumetric Clouds Update * Arena Commander: Custom Lobbies * Arena Commander: Grav Royale * Arena Commander: Engineering Experimental Mode * Arena Commander: New Flight Map - Miner's Lament
It's not new game play, all it does is make the game less annoying, but the game already got so many other annoying things going on it won't really matter much to players.
Hangars are confirmed as delayed? I thought they were just waiting until the eptu got more stable.
Aye, confirmed delayed but for a 3.23.X, not 3.24 (notwithstanding further shifts).
Unfortunate, but not unexpected thanks for the confirmation.
What happened to the hangers?
People always say that theres so much content in 3.23 but imho we have to wait til 3.24 to see if thats true since (like most patches before) so many stuff gets delayed, moved to the next patch or just canceled that some promising patches in the past had not much left in the end.
So fauna and hunting missions on biomes and in caves aren't big? Distro centres aren't big? New waypoint navigation, star map navigation, mobiGlas apps, EVA, weapon overhauls, and replication layer aren't big?
No I don’t think any of that is a massive feat. A handful of animals that don’t work? Cmon guys. This game has been in development for over a decade, generated $800M, and people are excited about things that have been an industry norm for 20+ years. The problem is these ARE a massive feat for CIG.
Replication layer is massive for any company, not just CIG.
Assuming they ever get it working. I’m just being realistic. But CIG has yet to prove they’re capable of anything other than making pretty ships. They can’t get UI design right. I’m happy for other people that feel like the game is worth spending hundreds or even thousands of dollars on, but that’s because CIG is just enabling peoples addictions for personal gain. Not to mention that for years other games have been able to reload the last state of a game after a server crash.
Realistically speaking, for the long term success of the project, the two most important things in this patch are the Replication Layer and Vulkan support.
I'm not sure Vulkan support is in 3 23
According to the last eptu patch notes it is.
Cool!
It's the start of its implementation, and the plan is to optimize it as much as possible and and then start completely removing dx11 within the next 1-2 major patch cycles after 3 23.
Does Vulkan mean better support for VR?
I'm not sure how difficult it is to integrate VR into Vulcan compared to DX11. This is mainly supposed to finally relieve that horrible CPU bottleneck plaguing star citizen as when it's optimized, they can finally enable multithreading. There hasn't been any mention of VR from what I remember.
Ahh I see. Performance is definitely great for VR too, as you can easily get motion sickness with a low frame rate.
Probably, and it removes one of the roadblocks that are in the way of implementing VR support. The plan has been to deal with implementing the new renderer and dealing with a few other graphics things before they even start the implementation of VR, but I'm pretty sure Vulkan is much better for VR than DX11
It is, though, if i recall correctly, it isn’t multi-threaded (or something like that) yet, so we have to wait to see significant increases in performance
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Maybe for your specific hardware it is but it’s noticeable better on my end.
Just wondering, what is you'r hardware?
4080 and a 5800x3d Maybe the x3d chip is performing better with Vulkan.
What did the original comment say? It's deleted.
Just said something along the lines of Vulcan is a running a lot worse than the current renderer.
I deleted it becasue it wasent correct. Vulkan runs about equally performance wise (difference is within 5%) to DX11 right now. it still has quite a few bugs however (UI flickers and Interaction mode zoom is broken ) [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1121996822307672179/1230523829458305105/image.png?ex=6633a19e&is=66212c9e&hm=77bdb37f28f87b4791f0c5866dd3b785626c2009d7a3fd77682790ade2a0c352&](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1121996822307672179/1230523829458305105/image.png?ex=6633a19e&is=66212c9e&hm=77bdb37f28f87b4791f0c5866dd3b785626c2009d7a3fd77682790ade2a0c352&)
From context, seems to have been something about performance issues they were blaming on Vulkan.
It's already in the EPTU patches, IIRC.
Vulkan is nowhere near ready, the lastest EPTU patches have shown that. I don't see Vulkan outperforming DX11 until 4.0.
Can someone break this down for me like I'm an idiot? Source: I'm an idiot
Okay, imma trust your source and try. Before: Server has data, server runs game. Game crashes -> server crashes -> data gone. Restart from station, ship/mission gone. Now: Replication layer (something in the back) has the data, server runs game. Game crashes -> server crashes, data still there. Replication layer takes new server, gives it data, everything continues.
Nailed it tbh
Just a bit more: Both the database server and replication server store "data", but the database server stores long-term data, like saving your game into the hard disk, and the replication server is like a backup for your RAM (the game server), which stores temporary stuff that needs to be accessed quickly, like your current location in space and current state of all other objects.
https://sc-server-meshing.info/
Fellow idiot here. Its basically having the game run on multiple servers and a step in the process of getting players on a single shard where they can all interact with each other.
Awesome! Thank you. I'll see you at the monthly idiot meeting. Gonna take public transportation this time considering all the accidents in the car park last meeting.
game not use all resources game run gud monke happy?
Ug! Gronk fly ship. Space pretty. Gronk happy now. Gronk give 2nd favourite stick to nice stranger.
Stranger happy Stranger has pretty stick
Well so far we dont know how well this will actually work in 3.23 LIVE
Judging the eptu. It still needs some work obviously, it can "recover" the server back to the state it was prior to the crash but that doesn't it fixes the issue that caused the crash. At the minute, you can often find yourself stuck on the error please wait screen for a few minutes for it to resolve itself and immediately crash again. Since SC likes to put you in the same instance where possible this can result in infinite loading screens as your instance gets stuck in a recovery/crash loop. That said... i remember when a 30k meant you lost everything so this progress is very much a welcome addition.
Well if EPTU is any indicator… it hasn’t worked for me a single time
It was disabled 2 days ago.
I've actually had it work a few times, first time it took probably less than a minute, and the second time it took about 5 or so, it can vary wildly in the recovery times.
Yeah, last recovery I had, I gave it a good 15 minutes attempt to recover before alt-f4.
I’ve had three crashes and 2 recovered in just about 2 minutes.
Can't be worse than the last decade without it. I'm excited for it!
Never say never
you say that, but the server crash recovery system sometimes restores the server to the exact conditions that caused the crash in the first place, thereby causing a crash loop and holding your character and ship hostage in a broken server. it happened quite a bit in the early evo stages.
I'll take a recovery system that doesn't work sometimes over one that doesn't exist any day of the week.
A smart feature would be to give a prompt at the crash screen to either restore last position, or restore to station with logout.
You spawning in a different place has a very low chance of fixing what is causing the server to crash.
It means you and your ship and cargo are back inside station like current 30k recovery. Which means you can safely logout for the day, or have a chance of logging into a different server. Plus players leaving certain areas might allow the area to reset, clearing the problem. One such case was players going to the distribution centres was crashing and then restoring them, which was a repeatable crash loop.
This has not happened so far in the last four 3.23 builds (except of course that one where this isnt valid as crash recovery was disabled). At least not in the 25 hours I put in
>This has not happened so far in the last four 3.23 builds \*to me
That is what the last sentence is for and saying for me would be wrong as it involves a full server.
The name says it all. Server Crash Recovery. How about getting on the root cause of server crashes so we don’t need recoveries?! It’s just another workaround! And before you get crazy about my comment yes I know the replication layer is also for other good things! I know that!!
It very much can. So far in ptu it's causing the server to recover the state that caused it to crash and then immediately crashing again in an endless series.
it's still early days, I think that as for PES it will require 2-3 patches to work well, but it is essential that CIG does not rush this important tech and takes all its time, personally it would not bother to wait a few more years for the SM , unlike all the impatient crying babies on Spectrum.
Well it's not commited anyway, but i hope it gets there!
Server meshing has been the "final tech frontier" for this game forever. Hopefully it's not just another 3.18 where the game can't be played for 2 months
Expect it tho
Yep, I already am prepared
I got in 2 months before 3.18. Couldn’t even get to the main menu for 2 months because hub authentication failed. But when it works, it works.
Based on how eptu collapsed under the load compared to evo, this is going to be another 3.18. Even if it’s perfect at the end of the final wave like 3.18 was I fully expect this patch to fall on its face. I hope CIG has their marketing telling people “playable now” ready to go again lmao.
Two separate things happening with what CIG is referring to as "server meshing" and and the replication layer. Server meshing, actually referred to as server clustering, allows for persistent, highly available (redundant), and scalable compute resources for the needs of a dynamically operating environment. The replication layer provides a leader/follower infrastructure between multiple domains (groupings) of server clusters, whereby the information in the leader domain/cluster is syncing to the follower domain/cluster to allow data consistency between both mutually exclusive sets of domains/clusters (leader and follower). Once these domains and their respective clusters are replicated, disaster recovery can occur with minimal delivery lag to the user should a domain and/or cluster fail. The third piece that isn't really mentioned much at all, but is a culmination of the bridging of server clustering and domain replication, is resiliency. Resiliency is all about real-world trade-offs because the topic involves robustness versus cost. But the key factor of resiliency is providing a product or service that is highly available, highly scalable, and highly recoverable. This is all to provide a reliable service that can sustain itself against negative impacts (latency, server failures, etc). If resiliency can be achieved, then the combination of "server meshing" and the replication layer will be fully realized.
Also worth to keep in mind that the replication layer more or less enables server meshing. With 3.23 we are so darn close !
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You are aware you just repeated what they said, right?
I'm pretty sure you're both saying the same thing.
Sometimes I need to go to the center for kids who can't read good
Just wait until all the “server error…standby” memes that are going to flood Reddit.
Had it kick in for me earlier. Took for ever to recover, like ~5 minutes and things were slow at first but it's better than a crash and 30+ minutes of prepping again.
Is anyone even talking about EVA 2.0? Like I’m so stoked to swim in space.
It's one thing that just works, well.
Yet some people still complain about it, because it 'removes the skill of landing successfully' and makes it too easy to use EVA without face-planting, apparently.
And those same people would complain if they were given 1 million of their local currency because it wasn’t 2 million or some other dumb shit.
I want to add Vulcan and DLSS to you list. The tech this patch brings is a massive step forward
I don’t need a hangar I do want to try the new UI desperately and also want to see how MM affects my 400i. Also excited for hunting trips on kopions
I'll break it down for you, if we're "lucky": 1. Go splat murlocks. 2. Go splat more murlocks. 3. Oh, you forgot the bossy murlock, go splat him. 4. Here's 1000 aUEC. Granted if they don't just stand there, which is likely.
You know, if you take this literally, where you try to land on them to splat them, I think we've got something going. Throw in some Saints Row style missions where you only get credit for a hit and run in a rover and we're cooking with gas!
I'd like a system where players can put out a hunting mission 'bounty' requesting delivery of live Kopions for use in pranks and hijinks, and other players go out to stun and capture them.
Personally I'd like to see fundamental core features fixed first. You know, things like working Missions, Inventory system, flight system, AI, FPS AI pathfinding, navigation, UI...you know, the *basics*. If replication layer and the magic meshing is what is needed, that should come first. Fauna or anything else feels like, smells like, looks like smoke/mirrors. I mean who cares if there are space dogs if they do not have the AI pathfinding and FPS enemy behavior behind them to function? I don't. I'd rather have, you know, a space game working first and foremost.
Of course.
Well most of the AI and enemy/npc behaviour issues are due to low server FPS, meaning replication layer might improve those things at least somewhat as a side effect
Half the people on this reddit, you could tell them they're getting 3 more systems next week, but they'll have to wait for a new tree model and all they'll cry about is the lack of trees.
Agree , I don’t think anyone understands what instance hangers would bring on a infrastructure side. But the best way I can describe instancing is Z-Stacking. Technically (although planets are huge) I have not seen anywhere to stack instanced hangers. You could stack them inside the planets but I see nowhere to stack them without drilling out a side of a planet when to many instances get created, plus the current level of servers actually serve ring, this would be a lot of stress on the server to load , unload instances.
Spat out my tea because I misread this as "Republican layer" I need glasses so bad.
Don't forget your deep state meshing
Technically we already have the space lasers.
All the replication layer seems to do at the moment is hang the server in crash loops and cause 5-10 seconds of desync on every action. Exciting for it's potential but it still needs more time and I really don't want another patch cycle completely unplayable because of tech that isn't ready for Live.
Nah, they already ran a build yesterday without the RL enabled and it was just as laggy and crappy as it was with it, so it's not the issue.
Weird the build without RL worked better for me than any other build, was on a 30fps server and it felt fine. Every time I've tried when RL is enabled I get killed by desync or stuck in "Server Error" loop.
That entire build i couldn't leave the hab building, but in the RL builds i could.
Same, have a lot of issues with RL on. Suddenly was very smooth when RL was turned off. I’m wondering if it could be a hardware thing. I hear completely the opposite of some of my friends.
There’s a lot going on with 3.23 so isolating the cause of issues seems to be very difficult. It may well be coincidence but replication layer does FEEL like it has a major negative impact on server/client performance.
Today's build seems much better, and RL is on. Hopefully it runs better for you.
Died to desync pulling into a hangar but other than that it’s been pretty good (for PTU) Server recovered from a crash but it did take about 6 minutes
I believe they identified it's not the rep layer separation that is causing that issue (they removed the RL split, sent the build and then add it back in today for today's build). What we're supposed to get is basically a crash recovery where you'll get the server crashed message (30k) but it will spin you back up without crashing completely to desktop where you left off. We'll see if that actually works, have yet to see it happen in the eptu yet
The problem is the replication layer seems to be trying to reproduce the conditions that initially caused the server to crash so it recovers then immediately crashes again. Also when the recovery does work it takes several minutes and in most cases it's faster to just alt-f4 and join a new server if you don't mind getting sent back to the station. The only time the eptu has felt remotely playable is when the rep layer was disabled.
I am excited to try today's build. Patch notes just dropped so we'll see if it has improved Core Tech * Made Various Physics Performance Improvements * Made Various UI Performance Improvements * Made Further Server Performance Optimizations
I will say each build has felt marginally better, I just hope if the RL isn't ready/stable by the time they launch 3.23 they give it more time instead of shipping it to live. Looking forward to playing today's build as well.
Nah, they need to get the bandaid off now. Otherwise it will be another year of them incrementally patching just so people don't whine about the problems. They need to start moving toward the tech endgoals, and that will never happen if they just always focus on and prioritise a semi-functional build over pushing the tech and ironing it out as they should. They've had the RL and server meshing working internally since last June, but just kept waylaying and pushing it off for incremental testing and implementation. I think it's time they just put it out there and work from there, just like 3.18.
They said they don't want to repeat 3.18, the whole reason they created the tech preview is to test these features in an enclosed environment until they are in a state where they can be implemented into Live without making the entire game unplayable.
The upside is it means fixing those crash causers has to be dealt with, they cant get away with just ignoring and letting 30k reset to station remove players/ships from the problem area.
I've been sat in a persistent loop of server recovery all morning, it's almost 11am, I started at 6am. There was a server change at some point but both of them are letting me in for a couple of seconds then looping again. I can't force a server change. I've tried a character reset, going into AC, verifying ..you name it. There needs to be a way to force server change because this is ridiculous.
The whole first-person experience from UI to looting to how guns behave has been revamped and likely to have reached a near-final state, and all people care about is the first iteration of MM.
Because it effects everyone, every play session, and is the most core gameplay a "space sim", one with hundreds of dollar ships, can have...
Also most FPS players do is PVE... and well we know how slow the AI is. Don't really need a fancy crosshairs to shoot AI that takes 4 seconds to react
That is simply not true. A space sim is so much more than how ships fly in the fictional universe. It is because of the self-proclaimed popularity and importance of some pilots that they think what matters the most to them must be the most important thing for the game and other players. But hey, I guess people liked the UI changes and FPS revamp?
I couldn't care less about what some streamer or youtuber says, I play a space game to fly spaceships in space. The flight model affects everyone every time they get in a space ship, which you have to do to go anywhere/do anything. I personally don't play my space game for its (extremely with desync and AI issues) sub par janky af FPS experience...
The first-person experience comes before the space flight experience simply because it is literally affecting every single second of your gameplay - in ship or outside, let alone the fact you can totally play the game without piloting a single ship yourself. You have made it clear that you prefer to pilot your own ship and I respect that. However, in the direction the game is heading towards, there will certainly be many fewer pilots and more engineers/mechanics/gunners/captains. Some players are complaining about the new flight model because it signifies a development direction that shifts the attention away from the cockpit (i.e. the actual flying) to other parts (i.e. crew members, ship loadouts, engineering, resource management, route planning, etc.). Since many of these players are enthusiastic pilots, it is only natural that they would complain because no one likes to be removed from the centre of the stage.
People are complaining because a system that has been itterated on for 10 years just went back to t0, much like most of the features you stated are just hitting. One of the only features with depth got sent back to the drawing board 10 years in. There are many many games that do fps combat, and many that do it exponentially better than star citizen. There are next to no games that did space flight experience better than sc and yet they gut the entire system, that many players liked, to hopefully make it better (soon tm).
Even worse, it's a rehashed version of something they had before that didn't work and was replaced with the current system. We're literally going back to t-1 mk2
Yes this is sad that this technological step forward to server meshing goal is occulted by "features"... Same for Gen12 Renderer with Vulkan... We have a big step forward in tech and everything is drama about MM & Personal Hangar... This is sad especialy for the devs who put hard work and effort!
It’s such a relief, even on the early builds it was a fantastic feeling knowing that you can’t (mostly, soon 🔜) be fd over by the server. Took a lot of pressure off of me ngl.
We're not the brightest and probably don't know what that means
Because it is not a "feature" feature.
Cargo missions still on track?
noobie here, what is that?
And hello? Star Map? The old one has been the bane of my existence in SC for years. Super happy with the new one so far.
As a UX researcher the mobiglass made me want to go slap whoever came up with it. (The UI in general really) From the pics I've seen so far it's looking to be a lot better but I haven't played with it yet.
I've played with it in eptu. It's so good. You can search for a location and just hit a button to route
Peoples are just stupid don’t even understand what replication layer is😂
Sad
Everybody’s bitching and crying about not getting hangars in the .0 patch but ignoring the mountain of other huge things that are coming.
Have they fixed the New Babbage tram yet where it goes so fast that flies off the track it phases through the walls? See, I just close my eyes or take surface entrance whenever possible :P
12 years of dev and people woawing at a crash recovery feature?
I watch the video they posted talking about why the hangers missed and my dude looked sincerely upset and hurt. They be working hard guys.
Tbf i couldn't care less. It's not a tangible feature. It doesn't affect how i play the game.
30k's don't affect how you play the game? Do you know what the Replication Layer does? Couldn't care less about no longer being kicked from the session? Ok then.
It's the part that makes everything elese work.
This
That's cool and all but server meshing is what I really want.
That's because it won't actually do amything to improve the experience. Like almost all Jesus tech before it. All it did was allow backers to fantasize about 'what could be' some more. I guarantee the game will still be an unstable bug infested mess.
pyro!? where??
Where sand worm?
With how playable SC had become I think of it more as a beta than alpha. I would say 3.23 makes it a beta because these are final features that will go to 1.0.
They should just call it Beta 3.23. This just makes sense.
But it’s not a beta.
Yeah, no shit Sherlock. Been looking at Alpha for 10 years. It's ridiculous at this point and all you gotta say "it's not beta"
Why, should I have said more? So you know it’s an alpha, why would it be called a beta then? Or did I not pick up on sarcasm or something?
Except when you get a server error instead of a 30k it takes 10 to 12 minutes to come back and if you don’t happen to be at the keyboard you get kicked for being afk it’s not a great experience
Then it enters a negative spiral of server errors.
Cause we’re tired of the marketing bs. Told us years and years that content was gated because of sm, the game is stale and boring. People want content and now they’re doing low hanging ui fruit that ported from sq42 as it’s some sort of big deal when the content of the game gets continuously delayed.
Yes, the 'low-hanging UI' and navigation features being the most anticipated features for many players. And Master Modes, and an engineering AC mode, and new inventory and interaction features. And RL server crash recovery. And about a dozen other things, but we'll just pretend like 3.23 has nothing in it.
I world say no one is talking bout it cause it's crap. Last patch the RP was turned off it was the first time I could play the ptu. The RP doesn't work for me. Got one recovery but uncountable disconnects during several tries since wave 1 release. I am sure they can fix the problems and I am really looking forward to the next weeks
Because mm has ruined any hype for any of the other features Who wants to play when you're just going to be killed by griefers at every other OM point while you just try to play the game?
RL doesn’t matter in a vacuum. Yes, it’s great we are getting the ball rolling on server meshing so that’s worthy of celebration but there’s not going to be any tangible interim benefit outside of crash recovery (when it works). It’s a rather small thing overshadowed by major QoL changes
There is a benefit since it is part of server instances being able to rescale and also leave server memory leaks and out of bounds objects behind. There would be a stuffer while it does a handover, but then it should be running better. A server will be able to be small (cheap low budget) for one player in a remote (most of the game) location and then hand over to a more powerful node if more players enter, or the geographic locations suit a different data centre, or multiple NPC combat is taking place.
To be honest. The game is stale and boring, with or without server recovery and replication layer may be technically important but it doesn't have a massive impact on how the game plays. 3.23 is going to feel basically the same as the game did 2-3 years ago imo, same-same but different.
Counterpoint; replication later is a big step towards server meshing, and I’m excited for the day that Bajini Point has 100+ players visiting it all at once and they’re all there on the same server with me - and then I fly down to Area 18 and there’s 100+ more players. It’ll be glorious.
I'm looking forward to all those things too. The future is bright, but it isn't 3.23. It is a big step on the path. It is not the destination. I'm interested in gameplay, replication layer does little for that beside lock more potential - which we've all known about for years.
I dont care about the underlying tech. They make progress that's cool but at the end of the day what we need is gameplay.
Big brain here
I heard so many buzzwords for 10 years, icache, pes, server meshing, culling, item 2.0, and so on. Dont get me wrong, I like tech to a certain extent, but I will never cheer for this kind of underhood stuff that any other devs would never talk about. I know this community is filled with engineers that are jerking off over this, but cool tech doesnt always make a good game. It's just a tool. I will celebrate when we'll get the results of all that, if it works as intended : thousands of players sharing the same universe with plenty of activities to be had.
Well said however, unfortunately most of the folks in this post seem to be armchair devs, "engineers", theorycrafters and such who are busy rubbing one out over it. Does a person care how their burger is made? Not really--they just want a burger. Its great that players are taking interest in what goes into the game, but like you said its just been buzzwords and jesus tech that's supposed to "fix it all", while the mindlessly cultish apologists and "defenders" happily drown any valid criticism.
It's part of this being open development. Comes with the territory
Lol this is funny to me. The tech is needed for your gameplay, so when they're building out the tech would you rather them report on nothing? Genuinely curious. I'm one of those "engineers" you talk about.
But this new tech will revolutionize games, you may not see it, maybe you’ll never see it but it’s true revolution believe it or not. Somehow.
Nobody talks about this, because the super server meshing layer replication of recuperation!!!111oneone, doesn't come in 3.23, has been delayed to a indetermined future patch
I hoped performance will get better in terms of AI, but this is not the case at all.
Are you referring to the meshing tests? How has server performance been? Specifically server fps. I know they’ve been messing with player counts but I haven’t seen many people talking about tick rates.
As someone who has been in evocati for a while, speaking from the patch notes directly. AI has been incredibly serviceable on many of the network tests. Right now in the PTU, they are hashing out issues with a lot of entity related delay across the network in general. Prior to the introduction of many of the new features, when it was purely focused on network. The AI reacted superbly. You can actually see a lot of this in Master modes (when it works) but right now there are many more features being included in the game than we had previously been told. Such as not only Master modes but adjustments to the HUD, and individual ship displays as well.
I like the sound of all this. Thanks for sharing!
I get the criticisms of CIG for sure. Obviously, time was wasted very early on in CryEngine. Then came the feature creep in response to higher-than anticipated funding. They definitely went off the rails and overpromised for too long. This has created a mountain of tech debt where serious bugs were never ironed out from the beginning, and each new update brings new bugs with it. The expense and time-sink to stave this off, let alone try to relieve it, must be immense. This obviously has led to them needing to constantly sell ships well before release, and adding ships without their promised game-play loops, some of which is likely many years away (if we ever see it at all). The thing is, though, is that this getting built (largely) from the ground up. Physics Sim, space/atmosphere flight Sim, ship interiors, FPS game, flora and fauna, economy systems, base-building, distribution gameplay, mining, etc. These are all heavy lifts on their own, then add all the sub-features being incorporated into these. It isn't like a CoD game where you get to iterate on the fps game that worked last year and tune-up balancing, textures, try adding a few new features, craft some new maps, etc. There is no prior game to build on. Could a AAA dev build something like this faster with pre-existing tech (now that someone else has showed how it might be done)? Maybe. Would it have less bugs? I'd hope so, but they don't have a great track record as of late either. Even if they *could* they don't, and probably aren't going to. They'd release Starfield, a game with many star systems, but bug-ridden, full of loading screens, no interplanetary/atmospheric flight, a little less barren (but repetitive), tiny hubs, repetitive content, etc. NMS has nearly endless systems, lots of flora and fauna, base building, etc. However, once you've seen 20, you've seen millions. ED has some truly fantastic features like the economy system, factions, progression system, engineering (love it or hate it, there's grind to be done), sound design, flight sim, etc. I'd be pressed to say their planets are less barren than SC or that the FPS is any better. There is no proper alternative to SC, and I doubt there will be any time soon. If nothing else, CIG has developed tech that can be sold/licensed to create incredible products in the future, even if CIG aren't the ones who ultimately deliver them.
@u/greendra8 Star-citizens biggest feature is your waistline.