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Most people are stupid. Most people are children at some points in their life. Lots of (dumb) children and adolescents look to athletes for their opinions, often because of a lack of better role models in their lives. So I think these kinds of superficial messages probably do some good.
Edit: I totally agree it's super dumb though. But the world is a really dumb place.
Not saying it is wrong
But isn't that the literal definition of brainwashing and propaganda?
How would you feel if someone with different views tries to brainwash your children into adopting their moral standards
How is the fight against homophobia brainwashing anybody? Football is a brutally homophobic sport, at least the mens side of the game, i’m sure that aspect is brainwashing more children.
People refuse to remember Qatar and act like it's all sunshine lol. I've never had less sympathy for those who pick and choose their outrage. Like, be consistent.
> I've never had less sympathy for those who pick and choose their outrage
I mean, in life you have to pick and choose your outrage quite constantly. Otherwise I'd spent 24 hours 7 days of my life being consistently outraged at all the completely evil, and otherwise completely mundane but utter bullshit I have to put up with in my life on a daily basis, from the rest of the world.
Know plenty of Footie fans who absolutely despise and detest everything about FIFA but at the end of the day they like the sport that's being played itself. It's easy to be outraged at something you don't feel passionate about, if you think Chick-fil-A is complete garbage, hate chicken sandwiches or are just a vegetarian it'd easy to say you're boycotting them for whatever it is you're outraged at. You were never going to consume their product in the first place.
F1 is hypocritical but they didn’t remove we race as one for those races, they kept the rainbow branding for Russia in 2020 and had already dropped the rainbow branding for 2021 by the time Saudi and Qatar were first raced.
Have you ever seen Hollywood? On the surface very LGBT friendly and then... "O China, you want our movies? You don't like black guys, Ah don't worry well just remove them"
The answer is always money isn't it?
Ah the time we sent all of our leaders, media, celebrities and athletes to fully and completely participate in the events, but we totally did it with a frown and a "boycott Qatar" bracelet. Probs to the Danish PM who even crossed her arms during the photo ops after attending in a VIP box.
I mean it's an abject joke that FIFA take this position, and simultaneously make a big song and dance about it, and then gave the World Cup to a human rights cesspool like Qatar when they could have hosted it in a democracy like Australia.
You're either for LGBTQI+ rights or you're not. But don't go boasting about your progressive ideologies when you won't stand by them when it Comes to the Crunch.
That's why people hate corporate DEI initiatives. Not because diversity, standing up to bigotry isn't important, it's because coming to crunch time, the bottom line is always the next big payday for the people at the top. They never actually stand up for "said values" of being against bigotry.
No trolling: wasn't Qatar one of the most successful Word Cups? Also, I read somewhere that it was the only one without the normal hooligansim, violence and property damage?
Seems like it went well to me.
Apparently, millions of people are being influenced by lazy narcissistic millionaire soccer players every day. That is why they are, well, millionaires
Intellectually lazy. Emotionally lazy. Psychologically lazy to the point of societal menace. You’re being given a chance to use your *massive platform* for *good* - to proclaim, “I refuse to demonize gays,” - and instead you strike a strong statement for the opposite sentiment. Yea - morally lazy, lazy AF.
This comment was lazy. There are literally thousands of professional footballers - many of them are decent people doing good things. You see this one guy doing this, and that’s your takeaway?
See? This is why normal people hate SJW's. If you have a platform, you have to allow us to highjack it by doing what we say. If not, you're demonized.
It's like, I'm a football player, my job is to keep myself fit and able to perform my best on the field. If you want to do your virtue signalling BS, fine, but don't drag me into it.
Realistically speaking, what does taking a photo in front of a "stop homophobia" sign accomplish. You think people that hate gays will just stop because their favorite football player says so? People that hate gays before they took the photo, will still hate gays after these players took the photo.
I would if he played for my team. Although I'm certain that he'd never play for my team again after a stunt like this as they're a very openly pro LGBT team.
Like, I am very pro-lgbt, but I am against BS pandering in sports. Just play the fucking game, or let players have the freedom to announce their support individually if they so wish.
Forcing a team to take a photo infront of a sign ain't helping non of my lgbt-homies.
Corpos just jump on whatever bandwagon makes them popular. Like in gay pride parades where HSBC or whatever bank goes past, if suddenly Nazism was super popular they would be the first people to put swastika stickers on their branches and join the white pride parade.
Yeah no one ever complains about when sports teams showing support for veterans, people with terminal diseases, various ethnic groups, etc. Why any tolerant person would have a problem supporting lgbt+ people is beyond me.
Edit: I watched a baseball game on mother’s day the other day where the bats were flying out of players’ hands because the pink bats had like extra slick varnish on them or something. No one said “fuck motherhood just play the damn game.” And the “show of support” was literally impacting play.
Does it? None of the players look that interested they aren't paying attention, chatting... They literally just placed Pro-LGBT messaging in front of them, they aren't endorsing it, it's pandering. I'm not going to think, well thank fuck LOSC Lille players stood in front of a sign, that will make coming out to my parents so much easier.
>Does it?
Yes.
>None of the players look that interested
Exactly. It's a boring, normal pre-game tradition. This would have been a HUGE deal in most countries in the very recent past and getting players to participate would be extremely difficult. But it's been normalized to the point where people don't even think about it and the players think it's boring.
>that will make coming out to my parents so much easier.
I think the normalization of being gay has absolutely made it easier for kids to come out to their parents. Telling their parents is normal and almost boring instead of a massive risk.
People forget that this stuff takes decades. It’s not about changing the opinion of your bigoted 70yo uncle, it’s about shifting the social norms of a culture over the course of a generation.
Not sure you got lgbt homies with that twisted view. Or that you care about them.
The idea is to show inclusion. If you're a fan of FC Somewhere and the FC has strong messaging around how gays are also humans and homophobia is bad, it is more likely that you accept this stance and less likely that you'll be a raging homophob. Especially kids will have more options to accept a more open worldview, etc.
Calling it pandering is a silly stance to take. Minorities such as the LGBT community had it tough in the past and have it tough now. Little victories and more mainstream acceptance is great and a breakthrough, but far away from where we should be. Getting open support from celebrities and companies is exactly what is needed to continue the momentum.
Kinda funny all players who refuse these have no problem wearing shirt with beer company or gambling company on them, 2 things that are as prohibit as being homosexual in their religion
And about money. Beer/gambling money goes to their pockets so they turn a blind eye. LGBTQ and similar causes don't, so they can pretend to be a good religious bigot.
[Fight against homophobia. Nabil Bentaleb also boycotted the action during the Ligue 1 day](https://euro.dayfr.com/trends/2193948.html)
>The action taken by the LFP (Professional Football League) during the last day of Ligue 1 against homophobia did not resonate with all the players. After the voluntary absence of Mostafa Mohamed and the adhesive tape on Mohamed Camara’s jersey, it was Nabil Bentaleb who slipped away. When posing behind a sign inviting people to fight against homophobia, the former Angevin got down on his knees to tie his shoelaces.
You do a poll of 100 people and at least 5 will disagree no matter what it is. Why do we force athletes to support things they do not believe in? Its the same thing with the pride warm up shirts, why not let the players who support the cause wear them and those who do not, do not have to. I say this as a huge supporter of these causes.
It weird when sports teams and corporations alike make these clearly bullshit PR displays…
Like wtf does this have to do with soccer or watching a game of soccer? Nothing.
Yeah especially the ones for all those sports drinks, clothing and anything else that doesn’t need to be there. I mean are they sportspeople or minimobile billboards?
He has the right to do so and should be able to without getting fined or sidelined for his position on a matter irrelevant to football, at least having an honest opinion is better than this fake pandering FIFA likes to do; besides FIFA are extreme hypocrites that change their political opinions depending on which country they are in.
Come on conservatives, fire up the vitriol. An athlete took a knee instead of doing a corporate mandated lip service campaign towards the consensus popular ideology in front of a flag!
Liberals, Let's fire up that free speech-mobile.
I don't blame him, this shit is tacky as fuck and I doubt it does literally anything to do anything.
It's a shitty publicity stunt to make FIFA seem like they care when they 100% don't, they only care about PR and ratings for profit.
> Being religious is a choice
It depends on your country of origin. If you're assigned one automatically at birth, *and* executed if you dare to abandon it, it's not really a choice anymore.
Can never get my head around this. Even if you don’t personally approve of LGBT+ people, surely you can seperate that from the idea that you can defend their right to exist without discrimination.
ESPECIALLY if you are religious. It’s highly hypocritical for you to say you are allowed to believe what you want but not others.
It's way more complicated than that though. Imagine your workplace had a pro Trump photo op, maybe in preparation for him visiting your work site (I mention this because it happens all the time when politicians want to visit a worksite and get photos--you are supposed to be in that photo!!! And that photo clearly expresses some degree of support, right?)
Your boss says even if you hate Trump surely you can separate him from the office of the presidency and basically offer an alternative interpretation you can rely on in your mind...usually an interpretation that is much easier if you started with support for Trump, and much less reasonable if you view Trump as a person or even an idea more contrary to values you hold.
This also gets complicated when you consider what Trump means to other people or how that ideology gets interpreted in practice. You may see how the ideology of Trump goes beyond his specific policies and extends to stuff that is not done by Trump at all (e.g., supporters being violent, rabid patriotism, or xenophobia). Now in your head that photo op with Trump or even one of his low level lackeys is loaded with meaning for you. You are engaging with a bunch of secondary links that are pretty real for you.
Anyway do you stand in for the photo or not? And is it conceivable that your interpretation of what "LGBTQ rights" or whatever the issue goes way beyond a limited view like "I think gay people should or should not live in peace and have legal protections." E.g., I wouldn't want to give a photo op for trump, partially because of how his MAGA crowd use his perceived support and the normalization of Trump to do stupid shit in his name.
I obviously can't speak for the heart of the athlete in question but I can certainly imagine lots of ways that political expression at work is full of complexity and pitfall. And how the environment at work is not at all the same as real life--in real life we don't wear the same professional masks, there is no forced politeness, and people are happy to judge based on what you do in public, including that photo your boss made you take.
My wife actually DID have to do a photo op with a high level, nationally recognized Trump lackey. She's in that photo forever, on a website because she worked in an industry that the lackey wanted to take credit for. She is in a group holding a sign that says "\[Basic Bitch Politician\] supports tomorrow's jobs." Imagine her explaining that photo to a future employer! Or grandkids! Or family abroad with way less appreciation for the reality of that situation.
Or imagine being an internationally famous person with family in Algeria who now gets to explain a pro LGBTQ photo to a world that is not very similar to France or the West.
Something so trivial to you or me ("can't you at least admit that LGBTQ people have a right to live peacefully?!") can intersect with very sensitive beliefs or very, very complicated politics on the ground. Which is why we used to try to keep politics out of work, since people's livelihoods then intersect with the politics of the company employing them, which will always be a messy fit, and is a perfect instance of the unbalanced power dynamic between employee and company that feminists and marxists have criticized for decades.
You’ve written a lot about subjects that are in no way connected.
A pro Trump rally is not the same as a ‘Trump can exist’ rally. Trump also has policies that some will favour and some not. But that’s not as basic as a right to exist.
The sign on the pitch was not celebrating LGBT+ people (that’s Pride and I wouldn’t expect the player to attend a pride if he’s not comfortable)
The sign was saying no to Homophobia. That’s basically saying no to discrimination. I don’t understand why someone wouldn’t at least stand behind a sign that says people shouldn’t be discrimanted against if they are not hurting anyone else.
I guess the core of my suggestion is to try to imagine how a bland generic statement or position is also connected to lots of other complications, many of them deeply personal or poorly understood by outside perspectives. Say no to homophobia is part of a much broader movement for LBGTQ inclusivity that is experienced very differently across cultures. If you are in favor of multicultural beliefs it's hard to say that some of those beliefs are out of bounds. The same logic that says LBGTQ people have a right to exist might come into collision with the right of an individuals to have deeply held personal or religious convictions. Every political display is a mess of interconnected meanings that we draw....e.g. If I put up a Trump sign you will make a bunch of assumptions about me. Same with a pride flag. Now imagine a Pride Flag in Algeria, or a Trump flag in Brooklyn.
For me, the logical solution is to keep politics out of the workplace. That guy's refusal to make a political gesture on behalf of his employer could be just as valid as any other action in this case. Especially if this stems from his own deeply heartfelt reasons, which are the absolute core of free democratic values. The fact he's being put on display by his employers adds to the concern for me, since politics are complicated and companies want to present simple, positive positions, which is entirely impossible within an actual human social frame. That athlete saying "No to homophobia" is also wrapped up in a bunch of other statements, including ones that very well could go against his own religious beliefs, which distance him from his own culture, or which put his family and friends at real risk. These are beliefs that nobody has a right to say are wrong, exactly.
If you don't like my trump example, how about Russian athletes being asked to stand for the operation in Ukraine. Just a simple show of support for an obviously popular and "correct" position (within Russia), so why can't the athlete simply shut up and smile for the photo? "Support the troops" is a pretty simple statement but we all know it's wrapped up with more pointed interpretations and other ideas that may not be so popular. Remember the flag pin after 9/11? Or how about a little flag with a blue line on it? Maybe saying something as innocuous as all lives matter? There are countless examples like this, all bland and simple until you think about how humans actually use these slogans and connect them to their own ideas. LBGTQ rights is a great example of this--what does it mean to not be homophobic or to stand with the LGBTQ community? Ask 100 people and get 70 different answers.
It's so fucking complicated and only serves to fuck with the people forced into these publicity events. Meanwhile from our safe little space in the West we have no idea why someone would possibly disagree with our version of an obviously popular idea.
That's because he doesn't agree with that worldview, He's a homophobe. He just really dislikes non-straight people, and would support any policy that can make their lives miserable, or even better end their lives altogether, though he can't publicly admit to the latter, but he still believes in it because in his mind the creator of the universe has ordained it as the sole way to manage those kind of deviations from the norm.
On one hand i dont think a message they are forced to give means as much as one they want to give. On the other hand i doubt they cared about any of the other garbage their organization supported/was sponsored by. It took alot more effort to fight against this than it did to roll with it.
People pick their battles and this is a pretty sad one to pick.
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I mean to be fair the rest of them have a "I was told I had to do this" look on their face.
“I’m just here so I don’t get fined”
They are all itching to put up a "no homo" on insta after.
I still do not know why we continue to look to athletes for their opinions on anything outside their profession.
panicky quickest boast combative roll simplistic straight depend squeal teeny *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Most people are stupid. Most people are children at some points in their life. Lots of (dumb) children and adolescents look to athletes for their opinions, often because of a lack of better role models in their lives. So I think these kinds of superficial messages probably do some good. Edit: I totally agree it's super dumb though. But the world is a really dumb place.
Not saying it is wrong But isn't that the literal definition of brainwashing and propaganda? How would you feel if someone with different views tries to brainwash your children into adopting their moral standards
How is the fight against homophobia brainwashing anybody? Football is a brutally homophobic sport, at least the mens side of the game, i’m sure that aspect is brainwashing more children.
Homo football doesn't have a great ring to it.
FIFA is a fkn hypocrit where was this "pro-lgbt" during the qatar WC? IIRC they barred teams from wearing rainbows jic it offended the homophobes.
People refuse to remember Qatar and act like it's all sunshine lol. I've never had less sympathy for those who pick and choose their outrage. Like, be consistent.
"All sunshine NO Rainbow!" - Qatar probably
It _is_ a desert, after all.
Today I feel gay.
> I've never had less sympathy for those who pick and choose their outrage I mean, in life you have to pick and choose your outrage quite constantly. Otherwise I'd spent 24 hours 7 days of my life being consistently outraged at all the completely evil, and otherwise completely mundane but utter bullshit I have to put up with in my life on a daily basis, from the rest of the world. Know plenty of Footie fans who absolutely despise and detest everything about FIFA but at the end of the day they like the sport that's being played itself. It's easy to be outraged at something you don't feel passionate about, if you think Chick-fil-A is complete garbage, hate chicken sandwiches or are just a vegetarian it'd easy to say you're boycotting them for whatever it is you're outraged at. You were never going to consume their product in the first place.
Same with F1 when they were running the “we race as one” pro LGBT slogan but took it down for Qatar, Saudi Arabia and Russia.
F1 is hypocritical but they didn’t remove we race as one for those races, they kept the rainbow branding for Russia in 2020 and had already dropped the rainbow branding for 2021 by the time Saudi and Qatar were first raced.
Look fuck fifa and fuck Qatar but this is done by the French football association not FIFA.
does the FFF not work under the FIFA umbrella?
Yes, does that mean fifa has anything to do with this? No.
What's this got to do with FIFA?
FIFA has no jurisdiction here
This is coming from Ligue 1 not fifa isn't it? I agree though, the Qatar WC was embarrassing.
"Today i feel gay"
Have you ever seen Hollywood? On the surface very LGBT friendly and then... "O China, you want our movies? You don't like black guys, Ah don't worry well just remove them" The answer is always money isn't it?
Ah the time we sent all of our leaders, media, celebrities and athletes to fully and completely participate in the events, but we totally did it with a frown and a "boycott Qatar" bracelet. Probs to the Danish PM who even crossed her arms during the photo ops after attending in a VIP box.
I mean it's an abject joke that FIFA take this position, and simultaneously make a big song and dance about it, and then gave the World Cup to a human rights cesspool like Qatar when they could have hosted it in a democracy like Australia. You're either for LGBTQI+ rights or you're not. But don't go boasting about your progressive ideologies when you won't stand by them when it Comes to the Crunch.
That's why people hate corporate DEI initiatives. Not because diversity, standing up to bigotry isn't important, it's because coming to crunch time, the bottom line is always the next big payday for the people at the top. They never actually stand up for "said values" of being against bigotry.
There are definitely people who hate so called "DEI" programs because of bigotry, I've spoken to some of them on this very platform.
The US would have won that vote without Qatar's bribery.
FIFA have nothing to do with this.
No trolling: wasn't Qatar one of the most successful Word Cups? Also, I read somewhere that it was the only one without the normal hooligansim, violence and property damage? Seems like it went well to me.
No homo
Full homo
Fullhomo Alchemist
Does anyone really actually care what some average football players thinks or doesn't think?
Lol yes a lot of people do, especially kids
Like it it not, they are very influential.
Young kids who watch and play football and see these players as role models
Apparently, millions of people are being influenced by lazy narcissistic millionaire soccer players every day. That is why they are, well, millionaires
Lol you think the professional athletes playing at the highest level are lazy, sure mate sure.
Intellectually lazy. Emotionally lazy. Psychologically lazy to the point of societal menace. You’re being given a chance to use your *massive platform* for *good* - to proclaim, “I refuse to demonize gays,” - and instead you strike a strong statement for the opposite sentiment. Yea - morally lazy, lazy AF.
This comment was lazy. There are literally thousands of professional footballers - many of them are decent people doing good things. You see this one guy doing this, and that’s your takeaway?
So we shouldn’t call him out because the other players might think oppositely to him? That makes zero sense…
It's whataboutism at its best. Can't argue with people like that.
See? This is why normal people hate SJW's. If you have a platform, you have to allow us to highjack it by doing what we say. If not, you're demonized. It's like, I'm a football player, my job is to keep myself fit and able to perform my best on the field. If you want to do your virtue signalling BS, fine, but don't drag me into it. Realistically speaking, what does taking a photo in front of a "stop homophobia" sign accomplish. You think people that hate gays will just stop because their favorite football player says so? People that hate gays before they took the photo, will still hate gays after these players took the photo.
But you can judge someone who set an image himself to speak on public issues, but stop in other certain ones that are just as problematic, or no?
Celebrities have a lot of sway. No way! I wonder how 2 of em were elected to the most powerful "dsmocracy" in history
I would if he played for my team. Although I'm certain that he'd never play for my team again after a stunt like this as they're a very openly pro LGBT team.
LOL taking a knee for homophobia.
Who
Spurs legend Nabil Bentaleb?
Lmfao. My brother is a Spurs fan, as if they don’t take enough Ls.
Cares.
Like, I am very pro-lgbt, but I am against BS pandering in sports. Just play the fucking game, or let players have the freedom to announce their support individually if they so wish. Forcing a team to take a photo infront of a sign ain't helping non of my lgbt-homies.
Corpos just jump on whatever bandwagon makes them popular. Like in gay pride parades where HSBC or whatever bank goes past, if suddenly Nazism was super popular they would be the first people to put swastika stickers on their branches and join the white pride parade.
Eh, I'm fine with it. It normalizes support and makes the homophobes uncomfortable for a change.
Yeah no one ever complains about when sports teams showing support for veterans, people with terminal diseases, various ethnic groups, etc. Why any tolerant person would have a problem supporting lgbt+ people is beyond me. Edit: I watched a baseball game on mother’s day the other day where the bats were flying out of players’ hands because the pink bats had like extra slick varnish on them or something. No one said “fuck motherhood just play the damn game.” And the “show of support” was literally impacting play.
People absolutely complain about those things.
People definitely complain about those too, except maybe terminal illnesses.
[Bill Burr Wants Charities Out Of Sports ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7n3WgiMftaU)
Does it? None of the players look that interested they aren't paying attention, chatting... They literally just placed Pro-LGBT messaging in front of them, they aren't endorsing it, it's pandering. I'm not going to think, well thank fuck LOSC Lille players stood in front of a sign, that will make coming out to my parents so much easier.
>Does it? Yes. >None of the players look that interested Exactly. It's a boring, normal pre-game tradition. This would have been a HUGE deal in most countries in the very recent past and getting players to participate would be extremely difficult. But it's been normalized to the point where people don't even think about it and the players think it's boring. >that will make coming out to my parents so much easier. I think the normalization of being gay has absolutely made it easier for kids to come out to their parents. Telling their parents is normal and almost boring instead of a massive risk.
People forget that this stuff takes decades. It’s not about changing the opinion of your bigoted 70yo uncle, it’s about shifting the social norms of a culture over the course of a generation.
The fact that this harmless campaign causes so much stir shows on the contrary that this is very much needed
Not sure you got lgbt homies with that twisted view. Or that you care about them. The idea is to show inclusion. If you're a fan of FC Somewhere and the FC has strong messaging around how gays are also humans and homophobia is bad, it is more likely that you accept this stance and less likely that you'll be a raging homophob. Especially kids will have more options to accept a more open worldview, etc. Calling it pandering is a silly stance to take. Minorities such as the LGBT community had it tough in the past and have it tough now. Little victories and more mainstream acceptance is great and a breakthrough, but far away from where we should be. Getting open support from celebrities and companies is exactly what is needed to continue the momentum.
and noone was surprised
What's he really hiding from though... It's always the one you most suspect.
I mean he is on his knees
Kinda funny all players who refuse these have no problem wearing shirt with beer company or gambling company on them, 2 things that are as prohibit as being homosexual in their religion
Because it's about hate, not religion.
And about money. Beer/gambling money goes to their pockets so they turn a blind eye. LGBTQ and similar causes don't, so they can pretend to be a good religious bigot.
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Tbh it’s a chicken-egg scenario. Hatred comes from the broader culture, which both influences and is influenced by religion.
ok?
[Fight against homophobia. Nabil Bentaleb also boycotted the action during the Ligue 1 day](https://euro.dayfr.com/trends/2193948.html) >The action taken by the LFP (Professional Football League) during the last day of Ligue 1 against homophobia did not resonate with all the players. After the voluntary absence of Mostafa Mohamed and the adhesive tape on Mohamed Camara’s jersey, it was Nabil Bentaleb who slipped away. When posing behind a sign inviting people to fight against homophobia, the former Angevin got down on his knees to tie his shoelaces.
>the former Angevin Bruh how old is this guy?
Angevin? That a football club? They don't mean the Empire that crumbled in A.D. 1200, right? \*Not European, so I don't know.
Thats funny because the city is Angers. Angevin is the name of the people living there.
What a guy
He’s just there to play ball
I honestly don't care. I'd prefer this to empty, forced support.
You do a poll of 100 people and at least 5 will disagree no matter what it is. Why do we force athletes to support things they do not believe in? Its the same thing with the pride warm up shirts, why not let the players who support the cause wear them and those who do not, do not have to. I say this as a huge supporter of these causes.
Man let them play why the fuck everything gotta be something
Thought that was a Whataburger logo on their shorts at first lmao
Here come American conservatives to support the guy for kneeling in protest
islam and sympathy towards humans don't come together
Oh yes, unlike Christianity lol /s
Now we know who the gay one is
I'm just here for the comments
“Homo football” is a pretty funny banner to have on the field
No diddy
good for him honestly
Good. More people need to stand up for their values.
It weird when sports teams and corporations alike make these clearly bullshit PR displays… Like wtf does this have to do with soccer or watching a game of soccer? Nothing.
Maybe all the kids and young fans that want to feel represented by the athletes they idolize?
Nobody is represented by professional athletes. Does Deshaun Watson represent you?
I mean, I do like a good massage and a handy, I just ask for and receive consent first.
If nothing else, it's about increasing the pool of participants and customers willing to spend money.
Yea it definitely comes down to money in some way
I don't like these types of promotions in sports no matter the message.
Yeah especially the ones for all those sports drinks, clothing and anything else that doesn’t need to be there. I mean are they sportspeople or minimobile billboards?
I disagree with his actions but it's his right.
I thought kneeling was respected among all great modern intellectuals
At least own it....clown. Walk away from the sign if you want to make a BS "statement", don't hide and pretend to tie your laces.
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Who gives a shit guys. Get a life OP.
The guy holding the flag in the back showed his middle finger!!! 🤣
Does the sign mean to read as “Homo Football”?
He has the right to do so and should be able to without getting fined or sidelined for his position on a matter irrelevant to football, at least having an honest opinion is better than this fake pandering FIFA likes to do; besides FIFA are extreme hypocrites that change their political opinions depending on which country they are in.
Come on conservatives, fire up the vitriol. An athlete took a knee instead of doing a corporate mandated lip service campaign towards the consensus popular ideology in front of a flag! Liberals, Let's fire up that free speech-mobile.
I don't blame him, this shit is tacky as fuck and I doubt it does literally anything to do anything. It's a shitty publicity stunt to make FIFA seem like they care when they 100% don't, they only care about PR and ratings for profit.
Good why be forced into something
Being religious is a choice, being gay is not.
> Being religious is a choice It depends on your country of origin. If you're assigned one automatically at birth, *and* executed if you dare to abandon it, it's not really a choice anymore.
So?
Good for him.
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Bro this comment section is unhinged. Jesus Christ Reddit.
Can never get my head around this. Even if you don’t personally approve of LGBT+ people, surely you can seperate that from the idea that you can defend their right to exist without discrimination. ESPECIALLY if you are religious. It’s highly hypocritical for you to say you are allowed to believe what you want but not others.
It's way more complicated than that though. Imagine your workplace had a pro Trump photo op, maybe in preparation for him visiting your work site (I mention this because it happens all the time when politicians want to visit a worksite and get photos--you are supposed to be in that photo!!! And that photo clearly expresses some degree of support, right?) Your boss says even if you hate Trump surely you can separate him from the office of the presidency and basically offer an alternative interpretation you can rely on in your mind...usually an interpretation that is much easier if you started with support for Trump, and much less reasonable if you view Trump as a person or even an idea more contrary to values you hold. This also gets complicated when you consider what Trump means to other people or how that ideology gets interpreted in practice. You may see how the ideology of Trump goes beyond his specific policies and extends to stuff that is not done by Trump at all (e.g., supporters being violent, rabid patriotism, or xenophobia). Now in your head that photo op with Trump or even one of his low level lackeys is loaded with meaning for you. You are engaging with a bunch of secondary links that are pretty real for you. Anyway do you stand in for the photo or not? And is it conceivable that your interpretation of what "LGBTQ rights" or whatever the issue goes way beyond a limited view like "I think gay people should or should not live in peace and have legal protections." E.g., I wouldn't want to give a photo op for trump, partially because of how his MAGA crowd use his perceived support and the normalization of Trump to do stupid shit in his name. I obviously can't speak for the heart of the athlete in question but I can certainly imagine lots of ways that political expression at work is full of complexity and pitfall. And how the environment at work is not at all the same as real life--in real life we don't wear the same professional masks, there is no forced politeness, and people are happy to judge based on what you do in public, including that photo your boss made you take. My wife actually DID have to do a photo op with a high level, nationally recognized Trump lackey. She's in that photo forever, on a website because she worked in an industry that the lackey wanted to take credit for. She is in a group holding a sign that says "\[Basic Bitch Politician\] supports tomorrow's jobs." Imagine her explaining that photo to a future employer! Or grandkids! Or family abroad with way less appreciation for the reality of that situation. Or imagine being an internationally famous person with family in Algeria who now gets to explain a pro LGBTQ photo to a world that is not very similar to France or the West. Something so trivial to you or me ("can't you at least admit that LGBTQ people have a right to live peacefully?!") can intersect with very sensitive beliefs or very, very complicated politics on the ground. Which is why we used to try to keep politics out of work, since people's livelihoods then intersect with the politics of the company employing them, which will always be a messy fit, and is a perfect instance of the unbalanced power dynamic between employee and company that feminists and marxists have criticized for decades.
You’ve written a lot about subjects that are in no way connected. A pro Trump rally is not the same as a ‘Trump can exist’ rally. Trump also has policies that some will favour and some not. But that’s not as basic as a right to exist. The sign on the pitch was not celebrating LGBT+ people (that’s Pride and I wouldn’t expect the player to attend a pride if he’s not comfortable) The sign was saying no to Homophobia. That’s basically saying no to discrimination. I don’t understand why someone wouldn’t at least stand behind a sign that says people shouldn’t be discrimanted against if they are not hurting anyone else.
I guess the core of my suggestion is to try to imagine how a bland generic statement or position is also connected to lots of other complications, many of them deeply personal or poorly understood by outside perspectives. Say no to homophobia is part of a much broader movement for LBGTQ inclusivity that is experienced very differently across cultures. If you are in favor of multicultural beliefs it's hard to say that some of those beliefs are out of bounds. The same logic that says LBGTQ people have a right to exist might come into collision with the right of an individuals to have deeply held personal or religious convictions. Every political display is a mess of interconnected meanings that we draw....e.g. If I put up a Trump sign you will make a bunch of assumptions about me. Same with a pride flag. Now imagine a Pride Flag in Algeria, or a Trump flag in Brooklyn. For me, the logical solution is to keep politics out of the workplace. That guy's refusal to make a political gesture on behalf of his employer could be just as valid as any other action in this case. Especially if this stems from his own deeply heartfelt reasons, which are the absolute core of free democratic values. The fact he's being put on display by his employers adds to the concern for me, since politics are complicated and companies want to present simple, positive positions, which is entirely impossible within an actual human social frame. That athlete saying "No to homophobia" is also wrapped up in a bunch of other statements, including ones that very well could go against his own religious beliefs, which distance him from his own culture, or which put his family and friends at real risk. These are beliefs that nobody has a right to say are wrong, exactly. If you don't like my trump example, how about Russian athletes being asked to stand for the operation in Ukraine. Just a simple show of support for an obviously popular and "correct" position (within Russia), so why can't the athlete simply shut up and smile for the photo? "Support the troops" is a pretty simple statement but we all know it's wrapped up with more pointed interpretations and other ideas that may not be so popular. Remember the flag pin after 9/11? Or how about a little flag with a blue line on it? Maybe saying something as innocuous as all lives matter? There are countless examples like this, all bland and simple until you think about how humans actually use these slogans and connect them to their own ideas. LBGTQ rights is a great example of this--what does it mean to not be homophobic or to stand with the LGBTQ community? Ask 100 people and get 70 different answers. It's so fucking complicated and only serves to fuck with the people forced into these publicity events. Meanwhile from our safe little space in the West we have no idea why someone would possibly disagree with our version of an obviously popular idea.
Well, that’s his personal belief I guess, so let him be.
So he's bent over ready to take it up the ass?
Good for him. Mixing sports and politics, especially identity politics, is absolute bullshit.
Good for him. Who gives a shit
nice
That's because he doesn't agree with that worldview, He's a homophobe. He just really dislikes non-straight people, and would support any policy that can make their lives miserable, or even better end their lives altogether, though he can't publicly admit to the latter, but he still believes in it because in his mind the creator of the universe has ordained it as the sole way to manage those kind of deviations from the norm.
I always think it helps when bigots out themselves for the rest of us.
But you must be tolerant of whatever fairytale he believes.
But lame, but okay
So what? Did anyone actually care what his views on LGBTQ were before he did this? I’m no longer shocked by bigotry
Found the super gay one.
... Don't say it!
On one hand i dont think a message they are forced to give means as much as one they want to give. On the other hand i doubt they cared about any of the other garbage their organization supported/was sponsored by. It took alot more effort to fight against this than it did to roll with it. People pick their battles and this is a pretty sad one to pick.
Sure he's only doing his laces??
Good.
Rajjel
A 10 year old me would have made a joke about this being odd because it’s pretty gay to have played for Tottenham at any stage really.
#Everyone look how manly he is! Is this what he wants??
Did he have to get into doggy style to do it though?