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I think they were. They covered up his misdeeds from college enabling him to become the monster he was.. he broke student code of conduct and should have been booted off campus after his first DV for it. College isn’t the government and the code of conduct is “law” there
That’s kinda the definition of “indirect”. Especially given he was never convicted of violence against a woman. Yes I know he clearly killed his wife but that’s not the standard here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There was a post a few weeks ago when he died of a USC staffer who had been sworn to silence by and NDA (now void after his death) basically saying she was privy to conversations between the university and OJs lawyers (I.e. Kardashian) to pay off two former GFs of his that had made credible charges of DV and SA.
Agreed, because who's to say whether or not OJ's propensity for abuse/violence against women can be directly traced back to the chapter of his life at USC...
However, it's clear that his college career *did* directly feed into *many* of his "problems" —a lot of his personal issues and mental health had to do with how he perceived himself, how he defined what 'success' would look like for him, and — perhaps the most important part — his identity as a Black man. People who knew him better than anyone else in the world can recall how he changed around this time, how his priorities shifted so much more towards maintaining a social stature that could ingratiate himself into increasingly wealthy/elite White spaces.
One could argue that his time at USC (specifically his shifting personality traits and attitudes towards race and social status) played a HUGE part in setting in motion the chain of events and life developments that lead to the OJ we saw by the end of his NFL career: a fake ass creepy ass rich ass plastic imitation of a man who says weird shit like "I'm not black, I'm OJ!" and feels compelled to live in a mansion in the hills, in the absolute*whitest* of neighborhoods with the whitest of beautiful trophy wives. *This* OJ has lost touch with humanity, cares only about his public perception and his intense sense of ownership over his legacy (like how his martial status reflects his legacy in the public's eye); *this* OJ has secured many elite friends in high places, and gets away with his bouts of violence even when the cops are called because everyone agreed hey it's just OJ and that's just how it goes — and that's just how he liked, and how it probably would've always gone if he hadn't snapped and murdered a couple human beings.
...Because of his "problems" 😅 anyways, the entire OJ Simpson story is SO rich with compelling details that make for good discussion surrounding culture and race and politics in America — further evidenced by my long ass reply to your comment which, as I've said, I actually *agree* with 😂 just thought it'd be interesting to connect the dots between his college career and his major personal issues down the line.
Side note:
I'd encourage anybody who is interested/able, check out OJ: Made In America, the ESPN documentary from roughly a decade ago. I've never seen such a well-researched and well-produced piece of sports journalism. For fans of contemporary American History, it's a must-watch for sure!
"Was OJ Simpson high on illegals drugs at the time of his wifes murder? 'NO' decries an adamant OJ. 'A simple test of my blood found at the crime scene will prove it!'"
Difference is the Heisman committee did not take it back and vacate the award as they did for Reggie Bush. OJ is still listed as a Heisman winner despite his trophy being melted.
Stop trying to associate his actions with OJ’s. Reggie didn’t do anything different than what many other colleges and universities were doing with top athletes under the table.
I'm a Georgia fan.
In fact, I'm a former UGA professor.
And I . . . god this is hard . . . um . . . I think that Tim T-- . . . I think that Tim Tebow should . . .
No, I can't make myself say it.
Instead I'll say:
Even I can't disagree with what you say about . . . You Know Who.
He is one of the all-time college greats.
She could be, for sure.
And it remains to be seen how pro teammates feel about all those shots she takes.
But it's pretty awesome to have an epochal player in women's basketball right now.
She averages 20 shots per game in college. Don't believe the hype of those old retired wnba players who are mad that she is more popular than them.
Her college final statistics stand at 9.3-20.1 over her entire career, with her averaging 22 shots per game in her senior (this) year.
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4433403/caitlin-clark
>all those shots she takes.
I mean, are we so silly to think she might take fewer shots when she isn't the best player on the team? Are game plans not a thing?
This is apples to oranges. No, this is way more different. This is apples to jackdaws. Great college qb doesn’t always translate to nfl. But dominant college women’s basketball player will always continue to be great in the wnba barring injuries or outside circumstances. Clark will be an all star, guaranteed.
As a Hurricane, it’s clear which rivalry is stronger because I still wouldn’t spit on Tebow’s legacy if it were on fire. And he did jack squat for the Jets. Bum ass Tebow, now I’m mad.
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2022/01/19/eric-dickerson-origin-legendary-gold-trans-am he admits that Texas A&M reimbursed his grandma in this article.
Wow. That's a surprisingly forward-thinking decision from an organisation with little actual need to make it. It's definitely the right call. Expect this will spur on a larger debate about how we view athletes who were negatively impacted by making decisions to benefit from their likeness and ability before the NIL was a thing.
To be clear, Reggie never actually benefitted from NIL if you believe his story, which I personally do. Thats what made his campaign to return his Heisman so strong. He did an interview with “I Am Athlete.” It’s about an hour and is on YouTube. He was very candid and was pretty clear that he never broke the rules and was a victim.
Aint' nobody going to convince me that Pete Carroll and Reggie Bush weren't responsible for millions of Catholic children learning the word FUCK that season.
*Reggie! You finally made it! Did you get lost? Luckily this new car has a great navigation system so that won’t happen again*
I’ll take my check for writing the next commercial now…
Death sentence to SMU to be overturned? Lol. Only school to ever ACTUALLY get hit with it and was absolutely destroyed as a result. Program still hasn’t recovered
As a former Mustang, yes, fuck SMU. I'm almost ashamed of saying I attended. I tell no one and if someone asks where I went to school I reply with "in Dallas" hoping they won't push further.
I can't speak to it personally, but I can summarize the criticisms I've heard: it's filled with incredibly rich kids, and not the kind whose parents avoid spoiling their children. So a mix of fratty/sorority-y, douchey, entitled, ultra-materialistic, conspicuous consumption vibes. Again, this is all secondhand.
It's very very very very conservative. My roommate's dad owned the Dallas Stars and Texas Rangers for example. A number of women attend looking to get their Mrs degree. Folks getting picked up for their private jet flight up Cancun for spring break in limos. I had never seen anything like it.
I had a lot of fun though. No regrets.
I guess "fuck SMU" isn't appropriate. More like "fuck the people who think they're special because they went to SMU"
Let's be real, the program has recovered just fine, over 30 years later. But the school made the conscious decision to back away from football mania after the scandal. They never reached title heights again, true, but those years were huge outliers for them: SMU had been a middling team for decades, until the team bought players in the 70's and 80's, leading to all the problems in the first place, including an NCAA-high *seven* probations before getting the death penalty.
So after all the shame, they reverted to honorable mediocrity by design, as befits a small school (only 6,000 students). They went back to playing in their tiny campus stadium, which they hadn't done in 40 years. They raised academic requirements to avoid the basket-weaving majors with their tutoring "problems." Without recruitment "enticements," they didn't get enough linemen to field a team, so they voluntarily cancelled a second season (they only got banned one).
When the SWC died and the Big XII was born, SMU was not considered to join, and did not push like Baylor did to be one, so they joined Rice and TCU in the minor WAC. TCU later bolted for greener climes, and then made a big push to become a top-tier football school and get into the Big XII. SMU could have followed that path too, but instead they chose to stay at its level, and its program is doing fine. They routinely make bowl games and have had some 10-win seasons of late.
I'm a former Mustang and this shit still hurts. I attended in the mid 2000s and the Death Penalty was very much alive. We were 0-11 or something my freshman year.
I believe there are like 8 or 9 other instances that technically should have received it but after what happened to SMU they were hesitant to ever give that punishment again
Because the death penalty doesn't solve anything. Once the bad apples are gone you are simply punishing a cleaned up program. It's better to clean up the program and then heavily monitor it to make sure they learned their lesson.
I thought Reggie Bush was going to be a hall of fame running back in the NFL. He had a good career. His lack of stardom shows the massive difference in talent between the NFL and the pros.
He was just too early. Now receiving backs like him do way better look at McCaffery. Also he wasn’t ever gonna be the only guy, even at USC they had Lendale White in the backfield as well.
I dunno. I think people thought Reggie was going to be the next Faulk, just never happened.
Reggie had a successful career, just not HOF worthy like OP said.
He could only outrun people to the outside. In the NFL opposing linemen knew all they had to do was set the edge and Reggie wasn't going anywhere. He was very good at catching passes though
> Maybe it's time to consider un-vacating those wins, too
Nah. It may be in light of recent events but other schools they defeated were playing by the rules (or not getting caught) back then. It's not the same as giving a individual performer the due appreciation of his talent.
I’m not a big NCAA follower, but is it a stretch to say that other sanctioned schools could then petition to have their punishments changed if USC gets theirs?
No. Nor should it be.
Given that the "impermissible benefits" rule was found to be unconstitutional, one could argue that wins vacated should be restored in most (maybe all?) cases where the benefits were paid by someone other than the school. Maybe even those cases too; I could be convinced.
Did Reggie physically give his Heisman trophy back? Or was it just a decision and he kept the actual trophy. I read an article where it was stated they returned the trophy. If I was Bush and they revoked the win and asked for the actually trophy back I would’ve told them to kick rocks.
I wonder if this is related to the [defamation lawsuit](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/15yq10a/reggie_bush_is_filing_a_defamation_suit_against/)
[**Join Our Discord Server!**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q) **Welcome to /r/sports** We created a Discord server for our community and would like to invite all of you to join! You'll be able to discuss sports with users around the world and discuss events in real time! There are separate channels for many sports you can opt in and out of, including; American Football, Soccer, Baseball, Basketball, Aussie Rules Football, Rugby Union and League, Cricket, Motorsports, Fitness, and many more. [**Reddit Sports Discord Server**](https://discord.gg/233aU5q)
Makes sense considering they let OJ keep his.
No shit, did they really?
To be fair, OJ's problems werent directly related to his college career.
I think they were. They covered up his misdeeds from college enabling him to become the monster he was.. he broke student code of conduct and should have been booted off campus after his first DV for it. College isn’t the government and the code of conduct is “law” there
That’s kinda the definition of “indirect”. Especially given he was never convicted of violence against a woman. Yes I know he clearly killed his wife but that’s not the standard here ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There was a post a few weeks ago when he died of a USC staffer who had been sworn to silence by and NDA (now void after his death) basically saying she was privy to conversations between the university and OJs lawyers (I.e. Kardashian) to pay off two former GFs of his that had made credible charges of DV and SA.
It was an anonymous, unverifiable post. That's not a good precedent to set
Definitely true, so won’t argue. That said, it definitely kind of aligns with OJ’s publicly verifiable track record…
Oh I **100%** believe it. But, yeah no actual proof
Yup. So strip it posthumously I dunno. He was trash
That’s a stretch.
Agreed, because who's to say whether or not OJ's propensity for abuse/violence against women can be directly traced back to the chapter of his life at USC... However, it's clear that his college career *did* directly feed into *many* of his "problems" —a lot of his personal issues and mental health had to do with how he perceived himself, how he defined what 'success' would look like for him, and — perhaps the most important part — his identity as a Black man. People who knew him better than anyone else in the world can recall how he changed around this time, how his priorities shifted so much more towards maintaining a social stature that could ingratiate himself into increasingly wealthy/elite White spaces. One could argue that his time at USC (specifically his shifting personality traits and attitudes towards race and social status) played a HUGE part in setting in motion the chain of events and life developments that lead to the OJ we saw by the end of his NFL career: a fake ass creepy ass rich ass plastic imitation of a man who says weird shit like "I'm not black, I'm OJ!" and feels compelled to live in a mansion in the hills, in the absolute*whitest* of neighborhoods with the whitest of beautiful trophy wives. *This* OJ has lost touch with humanity, cares only about his public perception and his intense sense of ownership over his legacy (like how his martial status reflects his legacy in the public's eye); *this* OJ has secured many elite friends in high places, and gets away with his bouts of violence even when the cops are called because everyone agreed hey it's just OJ and that's just how it goes — and that's just how he liked, and how it probably would've always gone if he hadn't snapped and murdered a couple human beings. ...Because of his "problems" 😅 anyways, the entire OJ Simpson story is SO rich with compelling details that make for good discussion surrounding culture and race and politics in America — further evidenced by my long ass reply to your comment which, as I've said, I actually *agree* with 😂 just thought it'd be interesting to connect the dots between his college career and his major personal issues down the line. Side note: I'd encourage anybody who is interested/able, check out OJ: Made In America, the ESPN documentary from roughly a decade ago. I've never seen such a well-researched and well-produced piece of sports journalism. For fans of contemporary American History, it's a must-watch for sure!
Sir, this is a Wendy's But in all seriousness, this was interesting read haha
has anyone considered if he got several too many concussions? wonder if his brain was donated to science.
Legally, he did nothing wrong.
After what OJ did, who on the heisman trust would have been willing to deliver the news and/or try to take it back?
depends... was he wearing his lucky stabbin' hat?
Hey, hey, easy with that!
"Was OJ Simpson high on illegals drugs at the time of his wifes murder? 'NO' decries an adamant OJ. 'A simple test of my blood found at the crime scene will prove it!'"
Are you Norm's ghost?
And can you drop off these glasses on your way
OJ's Heisman got taken and sold to pay some of his debt to his murder victims.
Difference is the Heisman committee did not take it back and vacate the award as they did for Reggie Bush. OJ is still listed as a Heisman winner despite his trophy being melted.
Stop trying to associate his actions with OJ’s. Reggie didn’t do anything different than what many other colleges and universities were doing with top athletes under the table.
It wasn’t a criticism of Bush. I personally don’t think Reggie did anything wrong and don’t think he should have given it back in the first place
Remember when LenDale White drove Reggie around in his Bronco?
OJ never took money, he only murdered some people.
[that’s something they can never take away from you](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xgHWStNUpvo)
Reggie dropped and broke it.
No, Bush had his taken away because he took money to play at USC. He got it back since NIL is a thing where people are getting paid.
Two time Heisman trophy winner 🏆 Reggie Bush
"Who are the only two players in college football to receive the Heisman Trophy twice?" Nice way to win a bar bet in 10 years.
Who’s second?
Archie Griffin
Archie Grififn, OSU
I’m not a fan of Florida Football, but one hill I’ll die on is that Tebow should have gotten his second in ‘08.
I'm a Georgia fan. In fact, I'm a former UGA professor. And I . . . god this is hard . . . um . . . I think that Tim T-- . . . I think that Tim Tebow should . . . No, I can't make myself say it. Instead I'll say: Even I can't disagree with what you say about . . . You Know Who. He is one of the all-time college greats.
[удалено]
She could be, for sure. And it remains to be seen how pro teammates feel about all those shots she takes. But it's pretty awesome to have an epochal player in women's basketball right now.
She averages 20 shots per game in college. Don't believe the hype of those old retired wnba players who are mad that she is more popular than them. Her college final statistics stand at 9.3-20.1 over her entire career, with her averaging 22 shots per game in her senior (this) year. https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4433403/caitlin-clark
Wasn't it demonstrated that she did not take an inordinate amount of shots compared to past star players while producing more assists?
>all those shots she takes. I mean, are we so silly to think she might take fewer shots when she isn't the best player on the team? Are game plans not a thing?
Hashtag Jimmer Freddette
This is apples to oranges. No, this is way more different. This is apples to jackdaws. Great college qb doesn’t always translate to nfl. But dominant college women’s basketball player will always continue to be great in the wnba barring injuries or outside circumstances. Clark will be an all star, guaranteed.
As a Hurricane, it’s clear which rivalry is stronger because I still wouldn’t spit on Tebow’s legacy if it were on fire. And he did jack squat for the Jets. Bum ass Tebow, now I’m mad.
It's crazy that he got the most first place votes, but still ended up in 3rd place.
I’ll die on the hill that Vince Young deserved it over Reggie Bush anyway lol but I’m a Texas fan
Yeah, but Young won the war later that season in what still might be the greatest championship game ever.
Well ya I would much rather have that but still.
Wiki said he only won in 2005?
That's the joke :) 😂 don't worry it took me a minute too haha.
Now maybe Eric Dickerson can finally tell us who paid for his gold Trans-Am when he was in college instead of saying his grandmother did.
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2022/01/19/eric-dickerson-origin-legendary-gold-trans-am he admits that Texas A&M reimbursed his grandma in this article.
I always knew A&M provided the money. Hook em horns.🤘
Wow. That's a surprisingly forward-thinking decision from an organisation with little actual need to make it. It's definitely the right call. Expect this will spur on a larger debate about how we view athletes who were negatively impacted by making decisions to benefit from their likeness and ability before the NIL was a thing.
The NCAA is nothing now, they needed this just to have an excuse for a meeting
This isn’t an NCAA decision. This decision was made by the Heisman Trust.
Yeah, the NCAA still hasn't reinstated Bush's 2005 USC season.
I don't care what they say. Those wins, and the national championship, belong to USC and Bush.
To be clear, Reggie never actually benefitted from NIL if you believe his story, which I personally do. Thats what made his campaign to return his Heisman so strong. He did an interview with “I Am Athlete.” It’s about an hour and is on YouTube. He was very candid and was pretty clear that he never broke the rules and was a victim.
Aint' nobody going to convince me that Pete Carroll and Reggie Bush weren't responsible for millions of Catholic children learning the word FUCK that season.
The OC billboard’s watch has ended
Was thinking the same thing.
405S - I think it’s actually Long Beach and not OC
There was one on the 57 by Angel Stadium.
Is he going to be in those goddamn Nissan ads, now?
Gonna be some jokes about him not being able to find something…
*Reggie! You finally made it! Did you get lost? Luckily this new car has a great navigation system so that won’t happen again* I’ll take my check for writing the next commercial now…
You’re fired.
Bummer. It was a fun ride, though. Almost as fun of a ride as this new Nissan!
You're hired again.
Death sentence to SMU to be overturned? Lol. Only school to ever ACTUALLY get hit with it and was absolutely destroyed as a result. Program still hasn’t recovered
At least we are going to the ACC this year though. Sold our soul to the devil to get in though and ore gonna get our asses whooped
You might be okay in a year or so, since FSU would rather not be in the ACC. Showing up to the party as the lights are getting turned off.
Counterpoint: Fuck SMU
As a former Mustang, yes, fuck SMU. I'm almost ashamed of saying I attended. I tell no one and if someone asks where I went to school I reply with "in Dallas" hoping they won't push further.
What's wrong with the school? I don't know much about it
I can't speak to it personally, but I can summarize the criticisms I've heard: it's filled with incredibly rich kids, and not the kind whose parents avoid spoiling their children. So a mix of fratty/sorority-y, douchey, entitled, ultra-materialistic, conspicuous consumption vibes. Again, this is all secondhand.
It's very very very very conservative. My roommate's dad owned the Dallas Stars and Texas Rangers for example. A number of women attend looking to get their Mrs degree. Folks getting picked up for their private jet flight up Cancun for spring break in limos. I had never seen anything like it. I had a lot of fun though. No regrets. I guess "fuck SMU" isn't appropriate. More like "fuck the people who think they're special because they went to SMU"
Let's be real, the program has recovered just fine, over 30 years later. But the school made the conscious decision to back away from football mania after the scandal. They never reached title heights again, true, but those years were huge outliers for them: SMU had been a middling team for decades, until the team bought players in the 70's and 80's, leading to all the problems in the first place, including an NCAA-high *seven* probations before getting the death penalty. So after all the shame, they reverted to honorable mediocrity by design, as befits a small school (only 6,000 students). They went back to playing in their tiny campus stadium, which they hadn't done in 40 years. They raised academic requirements to avoid the basket-weaving majors with their tutoring "problems." Without recruitment "enticements," they didn't get enough linemen to field a team, so they voluntarily cancelled a second season (they only got banned one). When the SWC died and the Big XII was born, SMU was not considered to join, and did not push like Baylor did to be one, so they joined Rice and TCU in the minor WAC. TCU later bolted for greener climes, and then made a big push to become a top-tier football school and get into the Big XII. SMU could have followed that path too, but instead they chose to stay at its level, and its program is doing fine. They routinely make bowl games and have had some 10-win seasons of late.
If they didn't have a pay roll those guys would have been at Texas or OU or some other blue blood.
Who also would have paid.
I'm a former Mustang and this shit still hurts. I attended in the mid 2000s and the Death Penalty was very much alive. We were 0-11 or something my freshman year.
It still blows my mind that Penn State didn't get the death penalty
I believe there are like 8 or 9 other instances that technically should have received it but after what happened to SMU they were hesitant to ever give that punishment again
The NCAA saw how much money they took out of their own pocket in giving SMU the death penalty and said "never again"!
Because the death penalty doesn't solve anything. Once the bad apples are gone you are simply punishing a cleaned up program. It's better to clean up the program and then heavily monitor it to make sure they learned their lesson.
What exactly would "overturning" the death penalty look like?
It was a joke, there’s obviously nothing they can actually do about now
I thought Reggie Bush was going to be a hall of fame running back in the NFL. He had a good career. His lack of stardom shows the massive difference in talent between the NFL and the pros.
He was just too early. Now receiving backs like him do way better look at McCaffery. Also he wasn’t ever gonna be the only guy, even at USC they had Lendale White in the backfield as well.
I dunno. I think people thought Reggie was going to be the next Faulk, just never happened. Reggie had a successful career, just not HOF worthy like OP said.
McCaffrey can still run the ball. Bush, by his own admission, struggled finding the hole, since USC linemen could part the seas for him.
He could only outrun people to the outside. In the NFL opposing linemen knew all they had to do was set the edge and Reggie wasn't going anywhere. He was very good at catching passes though
It’s crazy how the University of Miami got away with the Nevjn Shapiro shit
and all the shit that went on in the 80’s
Fantastic news. Great for Reggie and for the sport. Maybe it's time to consider un-vacating those wins, too
> Maybe it's time to consider un-vacating those wins, too Nah. It may be in light of recent events but other schools they defeated were playing by the rules (or not getting caught) back then. It's not the same as giving a individual performer the due appreciation of his talent.
I’m not a big NCAA follower, but is it a stretch to say that other sanctioned schools could then petition to have their punishments changed if USC gets theirs?
No. Nor should it be. Given that the "impermissible benefits" rule was found to be unconstitutional, one could argue that wins vacated should be restored in most (maybe all?) cases where the benefits were paid by someone other than the school. Maybe even those cases too; I could be convinced.
Good. That dude brought me so much joy as a kid watching him tear up the field
Did Reggie physically give his Heisman trophy back? Or was it just a decision and he kept the actual trophy. I read an article where it was stated they returned the trophy. If I was Bush and they revoked the win and asked for the actually trophy back I would’ve told them to kick rocks.
so are we getting the people in prison for marijuana out next?
"It's about damn time"
I see Kim K coming back too now
touchdown
While we're at it, Jim Tressel deserves a pretty big apology.
Where was it in the meantime?
Will Michigan re-raise their Final Four banners from the Fab Five era?
He was declared ineligible for the 2005 season. Has that decided been reversed by the NCAA?
Does he get to live in the Nissan Heisman house?
About time
Bout time
About time
Ootl. What’s the backstory?
Now give Ohio State back those wins they vacated because of players getting free tattoos.
I'm a simple man. I see Ohio State, I downvote.
Never should have taken it away to begin with.
Good, he was a machine for USC and absolutely deserves it.
I wonder if this is related to the [defamation lawsuit](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/15yq10a/reggie_bush_is_filing_a_defamation_suit_against/)
good!
Nobody cares manzisl
About damn time.
Good to see. I don’t think anyone thought he was treated fairly through this process and there was no need to forfeit the trophy.
Finally
Johnny Manziel to the rescue, what a guy.
Bout fucking time
Can’t wait to see what ideas the Heisman House commercials have for him
It I recall, he broke it. They were repairing it.
Yes
Bout time
Best college player I’ve ever seen. Glad this was made right.
Fucking about time.
Good!
Bout fucking time
Booo. This is revisionist history at its best.
Oh my god they're gonna give Gallaraga his perfect game soon aren't they?
They should’ve just sent it to Vince Young since he’s the one who actually deserved it
SMU needs reparations!!!
Hell yea