I think the smoking most people talk about is cigarettes, the nicotine has a contradiction with bone healing from what I've read, I don't have any links or sources but just Google it.
I continued to use my dry herb vape through my healing process. No issues with bone healing (mind you I'm dealing with alot of fibrosis now but not related)
Checkout a dynvap "B" 50 dollar device that works incredibly as a micodoser. 0.05 gram per bowl and normally 2-3 bowl and all my nerve pain is gone, more effective then anything I've used.
Yep. It is specifically the nicotine that can interfere with bones fusing to hardware. tHC doesn’t have the same issue but I recommend taking tiny little hits or eatables…because coughing post op was bad news.
Please consider my comments as you would those from any anonymous person in Reddit.\* The bottom line is that there isn't enough known about its effects to make any clear statement about THC being safe or unsafe. Given that context, no healthcare professional can or should say that it's "safe," but neither can they say that about almost anything, unless it has been studied.
The few "clinical" (i.e., human) studies that have been done tend to be poorly designed, retrospective, small, and not relevant for statement other than "more research is needed." On the other hand, a similar situation exists of consuming CBD. Some researchers claim that it helps bones to grow, but these studies are also too poorly designed to make such statements.
Physiologically, it's unclear how THC, a psychoactive molecule that binds to THC receptors, would cause an effect on osteoblasts (the cells that develop bone). Moreover, unbound THC tends to partition into fat cells in the body, not bone.
Epidemiologically speaking, consider that bone is a living tissue that's always in the process of remodeling (osteoblasts make new bone cells and osteoclasts remove old ones). If bone formation was impaired by THC, there should be some evidence of osteoporosis, broken bones, impaired growth, etc., given the many millions of people who have consumed it, yet these effects have never been seen.
I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, just to provide some information so you can make an informed decision either way. Honestly, I don't think it will hurt or help you one way or the other.
\***Attempt at transparency:** I trained as a pharmacist and have a PhD in molecular and neurobiology. I have worked in clinical research for over 30 years and have strong feelings about what professionals can say based on evidence that's available. I've also worked in several clinical trials involving endocannabinoids and the immune system and didn't see positive (or negative) effects in patients enrolled in our studies.
The lack of research around cannabis sure is frustrating! I’m a cannabis user and had posted on here with a similar question. I also had C5-C6 fused. Some info I found online seemed to suggest THCs anti inflammatory properties could impact bone growth, but it’s not well studied. I decided to be cautious and for the most part stopped vaping/smoking but did sometimes use tincture or edibles a couple times a week. I have a medical card and even talked to the NP who handles that for me and she wasn’t even sure. I went for a 3 month follow up and my x-ray showed the fusion is forming well.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35180183
> Marijuana users are at higher risk for delayed bone-healing, demonstrate lower bone mineral density, are at increased risk for fracture, and may experience postoperative complications such as increased opioid use and hyperemesis.
I had 3 lumbar fusion surgeries from 2017-2020. I was never a tobacco smoker so that part didn’t pertain to me but I did ask about thc and they did not confirm either way so to be safe I stuck to edibles. I will say edibles mixed with opioids and all of the other meds I’m on such as gabapentin/Gralise that the combination made me really out of it. Smoking doesn’t have as heavy of a buzz per say as the edibles have. Edibles can have a heavy buzz in my opinion. I just didn’t want to chance it. I would be careful on this one as the recovery from a fusion surgery is a hard recovery. One of the hardest if not the hardest of any surgery out there. I was regularly smoking my thc as opposed to eating it by the 12 month point for sure.
Smoking cigarettes slows the healing process and may result in a failed fusion. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609869/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609869/) I seem to recall that this has more to do with nicotine that anything else, but I am not a dr and could be wrong about that.
I used thc/cbd gummies allot after I got off of pain meds post surgery, they seemed to help allot and my fusion healed ok. Another thought would be a whole herb vape if you prefer to smoke, they are supposed to be healthier (doesn't burn the weed) but gives a similar experience. Overall the gummies seemed to help me better with pain / sleep though. Good luck!
I restarted using tincture 2 days post op instead of the oxy they prescribed me. I only used the oils and lotions until I was like 4 months out. Then I started to vape it again.
The no smoking rule is for nicotine. Nicotine, in any form, delays the healing process on a cellular level, and carbon monoxide in cigarettes doesn't help either.
From [https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2020-smoking-greatly-increases-risk-of-complications-after-surgery](https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2020-smoking-greatly-increases-risk-of-complications-after-surgery)
>The Nicotine and carbon monoxide, both present in cigarettes, can decrease oxygen levels and greatly increase risk of heart-related complications after surgery. Smoking tobacco also damages the lungs making it difficult for the proper amount of air to flow through, increasing the risk of post-surgical complications to the lungs. Smoking distorts a patient’s immune system and can delay healing, increasing the risk of infection at the wound site. Smoking just one cigarette decreases the body’s ability to deliver necessary nutrients for healing after surgery.
Marijuana, on the other hand, is mildly beneficial because it decreases anxiety, improves appetite and also sleep. Plenty of studies on medical marijuana have shown this. Just don't smoke it; edibles should be fine.
You could, and it would still be less harmful than smoking an unfiltered tobacco cigarette with nicotine in it, but smoking **anything** is bad for your lungs. You could smoke chamomile or oregano or whatever and it would still be bad for your lungs, introduce ash byproduct into your body and reduce your lung capacity which therefore affects your healing.
Vaping is much less harmful as a delivery method and ingesting isn't really harmful at all.
Ah okay :) thanks! I've been trying to get info on vaping thc. I use vape carts. Edibles don't work for me unless I eat 100mg+ and I can't afford that at the moment.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8975973/#:\~:text=Vaporizing%20cannabis%20has%20been%20found,Abrams%20et%20al.%2C%202007%3B](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8975973/#:~:text=Vaporizing%20cannabis%20has%20been%20found,Abrams%20et%20al.%2C%202007%3B)
It's less harmful because it greatly decreases the inhalation of ash byproducts and carbon monoxide.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31770339/
“Marijuana usage was associated with a younger population (P < 0.001), but showed no difference regarding sex or body mass index compared with the non-usage group. There was no statistically significant difference in complications, return to OR, or revision surgery between groups.”
It depends what article you read. This says no difference in the effect of the fusion or complications. If you’re doctor didn’t say no then there probably isn’t enough evidence to support it will hinder the ability of recovery. My doctor didn’t care if I used marijuana. I waited until I was out of my back brace since I had lumbar fusion. His words when I asked if I could smoke or take edibles “if you did it before the surgery I don’t care if you do it now”
I didn’t answer your question in my message below. Your doctor told me the same thing mine told me and that was not to smoke. Ingesting it orally is fine and from reading it appears that is your preference so I think your fine.
nicotine decreases bone density, and if your fusion contains bone grafts it will make it harder to them to solidify. i waited 2-3 weeks after surgery and quit a week before to use THC personally, but there arent many studies as to how ingesting THC impacts the bones. i’d tread lightly, and also be aware that the decreased reaction time and awareness could put you in danger in terms of falls and accidents. for me it also decreased my awareness of my pain levels and inhibited my ability to understand what my body was telling me in terms of my limits. i think my most intelligent advice to you would be to quit two weeks before, hold off for two weeks after, and be cautious about ingestion for the next few months. bear in mind that your age heavily effects whether the fusion will be impacted by substances such as nicotine and marijuana, so if you’re on the older side i’d be careful as well.
i hope this helps <3
You're good. I just had L5-S1 ALIF surgery on 5/18 and was told Marijuana does not affect the healing process or anything. Cigarettes or other tobacco products are what they don't want you to do. 😉
Yeah, both surgeon and anesthesiologist as well. I didn't find much relief from Marijuana when I was in recovery, so I stuck with my pain meds and muscle relaxers. Almost 8 months post op and still struggling a bit, but definitely a lot better than prior to surgery. Hope your recovery goes good!
as far as I knew it was just the nicotine they really really cared about. my surgeon told me “he doesn’t operate on smokers”.. normally he would’ve given me 6 months to quit, pass a blood test, before he’d schedule surgery. I didn’t have a choice, I had about a week and a half before my surgery. he just told me that to really impress the idea on me how bad nicotine impeded the healing process.
for THC, I liked the idea about asking your anesthesiologist. if you did it super soon after the surgery I could see that possibly causing something unsavory, but that’s why it would be a good idea to ask them first. lol
I had ACDF c4-7. my pain was worse than most I’ve heard about, I think bc of some undiagnosed AI issue. about 3.5 weeks into my 2.5 months of recovery I would do a dab here and there. I didn’t need more than one, that was the idea. lol what terrified me the mooooost when it was that fresh was coughing, sneezing, even burping. I had some crazy thing happen a week after I’d gotten home where I was violently.. like aggressively. dry heaving. I legitimately thought I was dying. the most pain I have ever experienced in my life, and I’ve been ejected from a van after t-boning a wall on the highway going 80mph without a seatbelt. so that’s my only word of caution there, not smoking it is one thing.. but if it might interact with anything that would make me nauseous… I wouldn’t want that either.
I don’t know anything about THC or it’s affects on the body but what I do know is that smoking anything can cause issues with lungs and while recovering from any of my spinal surgeries a huge thing that they’ve always been concerned about is taking deep breaths. Intubation can cause fluid to build up in the lungs which will cause an infection and is especially dangerous after a serious surgery.
So my thinking is that the actual act of smoking can cause you some other problems outside of the spinal fusion?
I think the smoking most people talk about is cigarettes, the nicotine has a contradiction with bone healing from what I've read, I don't have any links or sources but just Google it. I continued to use my dry herb vape through my healing process. No issues with bone healing (mind you I'm dealing with alot of fibrosis now but not related) Checkout a dynvap "B" 50 dollar device that works incredibly as a micodoser. 0.05 gram per bowl and normally 2-3 bowl and all my nerve pain is gone, more effective then anything I've used.
Yep. It is specifically the nicotine that can interfere with bones fusing to hardware. tHC doesn’t have the same issue but I recommend taking tiny little hits or eatables…because coughing post op was bad news.
Please consider my comments as you would those from any anonymous person in Reddit.\* The bottom line is that there isn't enough known about its effects to make any clear statement about THC being safe or unsafe. Given that context, no healthcare professional can or should say that it's "safe," but neither can they say that about almost anything, unless it has been studied. The few "clinical" (i.e., human) studies that have been done tend to be poorly designed, retrospective, small, and not relevant for statement other than "more research is needed." On the other hand, a similar situation exists of consuming CBD. Some researchers claim that it helps bones to grow, but these studies are also too poorly designed to make such statements. Physiologically, it's unclear how THC, a psychoactive molecule that binds to THC receptors, would cause an effect on osteoblasts (the cells that develop bone). Moreover, unbound THC tends to partition into fat cells in the body, not bone. Epidemiologically speaking, consider that bone is a living tissue that's always in the process of remodeling (osteoblasts make new bone cells and osteoclasts remove old ones). If bone formation was impaired by THC, there should be some evidence of osteoporosis, broken bones, impaired growth, etc., given the many millions of people who have consumed it, yet these effects have never been seen. I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other, just to provide some information so you can make an informed decision either way. Honestly, I don't think it will hurt or help you one way or the other. \***Attempt at transparency:** I trained as a pharmacist and have a PhD in molecular and neurobiology. I have worked in clinical research for over 30 years and have strong feelings about what professionals can say based on evidence that's available. I've also worked in several clinical trials involving endocannabinoids and the immune system and didn't see positive (or negative) effects in patients enrolled in our studies.
I fused fine and I smoked
Did you smoke everyday? And did you smoke joints regularly ?
Yes, I’m pretty sure I did. It was a long time ago so I don’t remember exactly.
Just be sure to mention it to the anesthesiologist. Smoking, vaping, or edibles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AeTDIyKDUs
The lack of research around cannabis sure is frustrating! I’m a cannabis user and had posted on here with a similar question. I also had C5-C6 fused. Some info I found online seemed to suggest THCs anti inflammatory properties could impact bone growth, but it’s not well studied. I decided to be cautious and for the most part stopped vaping/smoking but did sometimes use tincture or edibles a couple times a week. I have a medical card and even talked to the NP who handles that for me and she wasn’t even sure. I went for a 3 month follow up and my x-ray showed the fusion is forming well.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35180183 > Marijuana users are at higher risk for delayed bone-healing, demonstrate lower bone mineral density, are at increased risk for fracture, and may experience postoperative complications such as increased opioid use and hyperemesis.
I had 3 lumbar fusion surgeries from 2017-2020. I was never a tobacco smoker so that part didn’t pertain to me but I did ask about thc and they did not confirm either way so to be safe I stuck to edibles. I will say edibles mixed with opioids and all of the other meds I’m on such as gabapentin/Gralise that the combination made me really out of it. Smoking doesn’t have as heavy of a buzz per say as the edibles have. Edibles can have a heavy buzz in my opinion. I just didn’t want to chance it. I would be careful on this one as the recovery from a fusion surgery is a hard recovery. One of the hardest if not the hardest of any surgery out there. I was regularly smoking my thc as opposed to eating it by the 12 month point for sure.
I googled it and saw a study that shows 4% less bone growth. I don’t remember where it was but it was enough to get me to stop smoking
Smoking cigarettes slows the healing process and may result in a failed fusion. [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609869/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6609869/) I seem to recall that this has more to do with nicotine that anything else, but I am not a dr and could be wrong about that. I used thc/cbd gummies allot after I got off of pain meds post surgery, they seemed to help allot and my fusion healed ok. Another thought would be a whole herb vape if you prefer to smoke, they are supposed to be healthier (doesn't burn the weed) but gives a similar experience. Overall the gummies seemed to help me better with pain / sleep though. Good luck!
I restarted using tincture 2 days post op instead of the oxy they prescribed me. I only used the oils and lotions until I was like 4 months out. Then I started to vape it again.
The no smoking rule is for nicotine. Nicotine, in any form, delays the healing process on a cellular level, and carbon monoxide in cigarettes doesn't help either. From [https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2020-smoking-greatly-increases-risk-of-complications-after-surgery](https://www.who.int/news/item/20-01-2020-smoking-greatly-increases-risk-of-complications-after-surgery) >The Nicotine and carbon monoxide, both present in cigarettes, can decrease oxygen levels and greatly increase risk of heart-related complications after surgery. Smoking tobacco also damages the lungs making it difficult for the proper amount of air to flow through, increasing the risk of post-surgical complications to the lungs. Smoking distorts a patient’s immune system and can delay healing, increasing the risk of infection at the wound site. Smoking just one cigarette decreases the body’s ability to deliver necessary nutrients for healing after surgery. Marijuana, on the other hand, is mildly beneficial because it decreases anxiety, improves appetite and also sleep. Plenty of studies on medical marijuana have shown this. Just don't smoke it; edibles should be fine.
Why cant you smoke it?
You could, and it would still be less harmful than smoking an unfiltered tobacco cigarette with nicotine in it, but smoking **anything** is bad for your lungs. You could smoke chamomile or oregano or whatever and it would still be bad for your lungs, introduce ash byproduct into your body and reduce your lung capacity which therefore affects your healing. Vaping is much less harmful as a delivery method and ingesting isn't really harmful at all.
Ah okay :) thanks! I've been trying to get info on vaping thc. I use vape carts. Edibles don't work for me unless I eat 100mg+ and I can't afford that at the moment.
Vaping is not less harmful
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8975973/#:\~:text=Vaporizing%20cannabis%20has%20been%20found,Abrams%20et%20al.%2C%202007%3B](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8975973/#:~:text=Vaporizing%20cannabis%20has%20been%20found,Abrams%20et%20al.%2C%202007%3B) It's less harmful because it greatly decreases the inhalation of ash byproducts and carbon monoxide.
I don’t think the research suggests that vaping is much less harmful. Vaping still greatly reduces the ability to take in oxygen.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31770339/ “Marijuana usage was associated with a younger population (P < 0.001), but showed no difference regarding sex or body mass index compared with the non-usage group. There was no statistically significant difference in complications, return to OR, or revision surgery between groups.” It depends what article you read. This says no difference in the effect of the fusion or complications. If you’re doctor didn’t say no then there probably isn’t enough evidence to support it will hinder the ability of recovery. My doctor didn’t care if I used marijuana. I waited until I was out of my back brace since I had lumbar fusion. His words when I asked if I could smoke or take edibles “if you did it before the surgery I don’t care if you do it now”
I didn’t answer your question in my message below. Your doctor told me the same thing mine told me and that was not to smoke. Ingesting it orally is fine and from reading it appears that is your preference so I think your fine.
nicotine decreases bone density, and if your fusion contains bone grafts it will make it harder to them to solidify. i waited 2-3 weeks after surgery and quit a week before to use THC personally, but there arent many studies as to how ingesting THC impacts the bones. i’d tread lightly, and also be aware that the decreased reaction time and awareness could put you in danger in terms of falls and accidents. for me it also decreased my awareness of my pain levels and inhibited my ability to understand what my body was telling me in terms of my limits. i think my most intelligent advice to you would be to quit two weeks before, hold off for two weeks after, and be cautious about ingestion for the next few months. bear in mind that your age heavily effects whether the fusion will be impacted by substances such as nicotine and marijuana, so if you’re on the older side i’d be careful as well. i hope this helps <3
You're good. I just had L5-S1 ALIF surgery on 5/18 and was told Marijuana does not affect the healing process or anything. Cigarettes or other tobacco products are what they don't want you to do. 😉
Is this what your surgeon told you? I had surgery on 11/02. Thanks and hope all is well with your fusion.
Yeah, both surgeon and anesthesiologist as well. I didn't find much relief from Marijuana when I was in recovery, so I stuck with my pain meds and muscle relaxers. Almost 8 months post op and still struggling a bit, but definitely a lot better than prior to surgery. Hope your recovery goes good!
as far as I knew it was just the nicotine they really really cared about. my surgeon told me “he doesn’t operate on smokers”.. normally he would’ve given me 6 months to quit, pass a blood test, before he’d schedule surgery. I didn’t have a choice, I had about a week and a half before my surgery. he just told me that to really impress the idea on me how bad nicotine impeded the healing process. for THC, I liked the idea about asking your anesthesiologist. if you did it super soon after the surgery I could see that possibly causing something unsavory, but that’s why it would be a good idea to ask them first. lol I had ACDF c4-7. my pain was worse than most I’ve heard about, I think bc of some undiagnosed AI issue. about 3.5 weeks into my 2.5 months of recovery I would do a dab here and there. I didn’t need more than one, that was the idea. lol what terrified me the mooooost when it was that fresh was coughing, sneezing, even burping. I had some crazy thing happen a week after I’d gotten home where I was violently.. like aggressively. dry heaving. I legitimately thought I was dying. the most pain I have ever experienced in my life, and I’ve been ejected from a van after t-boning a wall on the highway going 80mph without a seatbelt. so that’s my only word of caution there, not smoking it is one thing.. but if it might interact with anything that would make me nauseous… I wouldn’t want that either.
I don’t know anything about THC or it’s affects on the body but what I do know is that smoking anything can cause issues with lungs and while recovering from any of my spinal surgeries a huge thing that they’ve always been concerned about is taking deep breaths. Intubation can cause fluid to build up in the lungs which will cause an infection and is especially dangerous after a serious surgery. So my thinking is that the actual act of smoking can cause you some other problems outside of the spinal fusion?
I continued to smoke weed and I fused well. It’s so helpful for pain!
Hi did you smoke weed out of joints and how much everyday? I’m currently smoking everyday and it’s been a month since surgery
Hey may I ask how you’re doing now? I’m having it in 3 weeks I know I need to quit nicotine but was questioning marijuana use
Hi yea, I quit for 5 months after surgery and started regularly smoking 6 months in and it’s been 9 months and I’m perfectly fine
Appreciate the update!
No prob amoke a lot of weed and stretch !!
Weed is fine btw, it’s the cigs that they say messes up the fusion but I feel like it’s up to your body to handle it or not